12 Major Conductors Dumped by Major Labels

12 Major Conductors Dumped by Major Labels
Claus Peter Flor
Christoph Eschenbach
Eduardo Mata
Myung-whun Chung
Oku Kamu
Andrew Litton
Erich Leinsdorf
Jukka-Pekka Saraste
Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos
Andrew Davis
Edo de Waart
Neeme Jarvi

[@gedichten2826]

Maybe an idea for another video, "dead" labels that have been resurected on streaming platforms like Collins Classics, Koch-Schwann or Westminster.

[@williamreynolds6332]

Mata's Ravel was great. I also heard him do some excellent Bartok in the concert hall. Leinsdorf was like the Toyota Corolla of conductors: You might not get a life-changing experience, but you could always expect solid, sensible work.

[@violadamore2-bu2ch]

de Waart announced this week his retirement.

[@gedichten2826]

Indeed, Edo de Waart stops conducting. This was in the headlines of the Dutch Newspapers today: "This Friday, he would still be on the podium to conduct Mendelssohn's Third Symphony at TivoliVredenburg in Utrecht. But on Tuesday morning, Edo de Waart (82) informed the Radio Philharmonic Orchestra that it is no longer possible. De Waart is quitting conducting. This brings an abrupt end to the successful conductor's sixty-year, beautiful and capricious career." There is an awesome, really awesome local Dutch RCA box with his recordings with the Dutch radio Philharmonic. Besides an also very good Mahler box.

[@davidhollingsworth1847]

It's too bad that Myung-whun Chung did not get to finish his promising Dvorak symphony cycle with the Vienna Philharmonic under DG. The recordings were well received, especially by Gramophone, and I in particular find them enjoyable.

[@thomasotto5125]

In 2019 I heard Flor conduct the Orchestra Sinfonica di Milano Giuseppe Verdi and was so disturbed/amused by the concert that I wrote a blog post I titled "The Tantrum Maestro". I'm not sure what was going on with him and/or the orchestra that night but he seemed angry, and the angrier he got the more bemused the orchestra looked. There were even moments during the music where I could hear him yelling at the orchestra. It actually made me uncomfortable, like when you were a kid and your friend's parents started to argue in front of you. I lived in Minnesota during the de Waart years and was amused to hear you mention his divorces. At least locally in some snide circles, he was known as Edo de Vorce.

[@abzulooks6012]

Edo spent a lot of time in Sydney running the SSO and I think retrospectively people still think he did a pretty good job.

[@MusicologistJohn]

Release the Neeme Järvi complete Deutsche Grammophon recordings box already!

[@jesus-of-cheeses]

With remastering where needed!

[@MichaelCattermole]

Okko Kamu's 1987 BIS disc which couples the 1st and 3rd symphonies by Aulis Sallinen (plus other works by Sallinen, but non-Kamu led) remains a thing of wonder - an indispensable disc that is still in print!

[@anttivirolainen8223]

Okko Kamu and Sallinen are good friends, and I think Kamu has always conducted Sallinen very devotedly. Kamu made other recordings that, in my opinion, deserve more attention. His Berwald recordings have been featured on this channel. Additionally, Kamu made a splendid recording for Ondine of Britten's Piano Concerto, with Ralf Gothoni as the soloist. In my opinion, Kamu's DG recording of Sibelius' Third Symphony is one of the best recordings of that work.

[@davidblackburn3396]

I'm very glad you mentioned both Leinsdorf and Fruhbeck de Burgos. Both charismatically challenged but with all that musicianship who cares? Among other goodies Leinsdorf conducted the RCA recording of the 1960 Met Macbeth with Warren, Rysanek, Bergonzi and Hines. What's not to like? Superb. Fruhbeck de Burgos' EMI Haydn Creation with the Philarmonia, Donath, Tear and VanDam is one of my own personal Dave's Faves.

[@johannesortmann2789]

Unfortunately, your warnings about the dangers of amateur piloting will fall on deaf ears. The desire to steer is innate to a certain type of person. Herbert von Karajan did indeed piloted jets! How appropriate was that! I consider this to be a very dangerous manifestation of a "déformation professionnelle".

[@juancarlosdosgarcia]

I should think ihat Hans Schmidt Isserstedt & Hans Vonk might be added on this very appropriated list.

[@VinylBliss]

Oh I am glad you mentioned Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos. I love everything I have heard of his, such energy and balance. It is a tragedy there are not more recordings of his in the world. A fantastic conductor.

[@davidblackburn3396]

His Haydn Creation recording is stellar.

[@glengoogling7597]

I would add his conducting of Mendelssohn’s Paulus to the list!

[@VinylBliss]

@@glengoogling7597 I will keep an eye out!!!

[@mangstadt1]

I attended many concerts of him conducting the Spanish National Orchestra. He could sure make them buggers play at a high level!! In my experience, he's probably the only conductor who made Brahms' Second Symphony palatable. In anyone else's hands, I'd rather pass.

[@nipperfifi]

He mentioned in a radio interview that because his first international record label insisted he change his given name that derived from his Czech ancestry to reflect that he was a Spaniard, the addition of “de Burgos” would eliminate confusion about his nationality.

[@ahartify]

Edo de Waart was a big name here in New Zealand for a few years. He might have picked up a wife or two as well.

[@schnauzerbill7391]

Some fans solved the Burgos problem by referring to him as “R F de B”. I had great admiration for him.

[@zdl1965]

Face it, major labels only care about making money on a very narrow vein of repertoire. Once a rising / marketable / established name conductor has served his due, he will be dumped for someone younger and more marketable. It's the same with soloists. Can anyone imagine Neeme Jarvi conducting Fucik, Suchon, Halvorsen or Amy Beach on any other label than Chandos? Decca or Deutsche Grammophon? Nope.

[@im2801ok]

I first encountered Saraste through his recording of Beethoven's Eroica coupled with Mozart's No. 39. A great disc, IMHO. I wish he'd done more Beethoven - which I believe he didn't. And it is issued by Erato!

[@steveevans6241]

Saraste's early RCA Sibelius with the Finnish RSO (practically all of it) is pretty much a reference "clump" for me & so much better than Colin Davis' 2nd cycle with the LSO (his 1st cycle on Philips with Boston is much better). Talking of Philips, Eliahu Inbal started out recording on Philips & then switched to Denon & then...dumped! Not major though: I know - but glad I saw him do some great live Mahlers in London: I know - doesn't count! Oh & Paavo Berglund on EMI & then dumped! 🙂

[@greve]

I am glad you took up Jukka-Pekka Saraste. He is in my opinion a very good conductor, in general I loved his conducting of Beethoven symphonies (and of ..... Bruckner).

[@henkdem6756]

This week I heard Bruckner 7 with Saraste and Rotterdam and was impressed by both conductor and orchestra!

[@giannismag3064]

Glad you mentioned Christoph Eschenbach! I saw him live just yesterday(!) at Athens music hall, here in Greece. He performed Mahler Symphony no. 2 with the Athens State Orchestra. Really a brilliant and emotional performance!

[@pianomaly9]

Nearly heard him in '79 at the Hollywood Bowl, but was too busy looking for the date I was supposed to meet there in the crowd! Didn't find each other until it was over. 🥴

[@soozb15]

How much of being dumped by a label is due to the conductor losing the respect (or never even gaining it) of the major orchestras that he worked with? In the 1990s I witnessed one of the conductors on your dump list (I won't name him) who was so obviously disliked and almost derided by the orchestra that he was rehearsing, it was embarrassing to watch. I honestly don't know if this attitude was justified, but it made me wonder if it could have influenced the label.

[@robhaynes4410]

Litton recorded briefly for Decca, a series of absolutely excellent Walton discs. Andrew Davis also did a Planets in Toronto for EMI, but I think that was a one-off for that label.

[@itsagasgasgas]

At least Neeme Järvi has been able to record a couple of CDs…😉 Does he actually hold some record just for the sheer number of recordings?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, not at all.

[@kenwuesq]

I'd be interested to hear about all the orchestras "dumped" by major labels, but that would nearly every one, especially the American orchestras. Granted, they were overexposed during the heyday of the classical music recording industry, a period twice mentioned in the Andsnes box by Andsnes and Harriet Smith. The major American orchestras have mostly relied on their own recording labels, but those releases have been few and far between. There's nothing recent from the NY Phil., The Philadelphia Orchestra , or SFSO labels. Chicago releases 2-3 every year. Cleveland started its label at the start of the pandemic and, except for the past 3 years, Welser-Most's time there is unrecorded. Berlin has gone the coffee table album route and I don't think Vienna records much all except for their New Year Concerts. The LSO, Concertgebouw, and Bavarian Radio have released more often.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

American orchestras were simply too expensive to record, and they didn't care.

[@dcbuck52]

The best Verdi Requiem I ever heard live was Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos' final performance as Principal Conductor of the Orquesta National de España, in 1978. Simply superb!

[@flexusmaximus4701]

Hi Dave! What a interesting subject. I may hazard another conductor for the list. One ive heard live over the years, on many visits up to Cleveland. That is of course Christoph von Dohnányi. I recall the fanfare, and excitement locally when he began his Cleveland Ring cycle for Decca. I think he ended up making das rheingold. And walkure, before decca pulled the plug, due to production costs, fees etc. It seems his Decca recordings stopped about then. Now im not sure who dumped whomever, Dohannyi was pretty upset by the cancelation, so maybe it was mutual. He did record for Telarc, but it seemed his Decca efforts were over except perhaps for some Bruckner, already in the pipeline. Paul

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That was different. It was a general industry implosion.

[@stuartnorman8713]

Do you ever read the CC translations? The mistakes are frequent and hilarious to the point of embarrassment.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

So I've heard. I hope they're really funny!

[@michaelpaller3287]

I could be wrong, but I believe I read that Columbia dumped George Szell and Cleveland, hence their move to Angel/EMI.

[@pianomaly9]

Fell in love with Leinsdorf's '66 Lohengrin I got for a birthday present when it came out. In his book (can't remember the title offhand) he relates that he had a terrible time with the mezzo who sang Ortrud, Rita Gorr. Had to do a huge number of takes. One critic described his tenure with Boston as "dry as dust". I heard him do a routine Schubert 8th at the Hollywood Bowl in '81, I think. Then he announced to the audience that since California was experiencing a drought, the orchestra would now play J. Srauss Jr.'s "Thunder and Lightning Polka".

[@oakwoodian4465]

In 1960 or 1961 HMV/Columbia had a mini massacre in which the contracts of Kempe, Markevitch, Kletzki and (I think) von Matacic were all terminated, apparently on the grounds of poor sales. There could have been some others too such as Kurtz but am not too certain of this. I have never quite understood why the breach came between HMV & RCA in 1957 - was it because of anti-trust/monopoly laws? In the event HMV lost Toscanini, Munch, Reiner, Monteux and Stokowski from their listings.

[@jeremysmith302]

I saw Myung-whun Chung conduct Shostakovich 5 with the CSO. It was breathtaking, but somehow the Resound recording (which may well be the same performance) doesn’t thrill me. Maybe you had to be there.

[@KCTsangKen]

Very interesting talk, thank you Dav! May be you can also do a video on records that were promoted by major labels like gems but are actually CD from hell, one such example immediately comes to my mind is Solti's Schubert Great by Decca

[@pauloqueiroz9611]

Frühbeck de Burgos was an amazing conductor! I was fortunate to sing Beethoven’s 9th with him in the chorus! He was an amazing conductor-accompanist in concerti and for me his Carmen is still the best!!! (which, by the way, deserves a good remastering and decent presentation)

[@ericbutterfield-zw3iu]

You can say that again…( regarding great artists in air crashes): Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, JP Richardson ( Big Bopper ), Ronnie Van Zant, Stevie Ray Vaughn, John Denver, Ricky Nelson, etc.

[@psono429]

Great list!

[@timrauser8201]

I saw de Burgos conduct Carmina Burana with the National Symphony Orchestra a few years before he passed. Certainly at the top of the CB's I've seen, although I also saw their Pops conductor lead it at Wolftrap one summer which was quite memorable. For those who don't know it, Wolftrap is an open-air venue and that night's Carmina was accompanied by a thunderstorm. The performance wasn't as spectacular as de Burgos', but you really couldn't ask for more atmosphere and ambience. :-)

[@jonobester5817]

As a player with much disdain for conductors this kind of pleases me. Did you hear the one about the violinist who died and went to heaven?

[@alastairorr3802]

Enjoyed this very much, Dave. Just wondering how many major conductors have dumped their record labels and made a better deal elsewhere?

[@bernardley4540]

Marriner was dumped by Philips when the market collapsed.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, but that was a general apocalypse and he's already done everything that could be done, just about.

[@igorgregoryvedeltomaszewsk1148]

Maestro Hurwitz/@@DavesClassicalGuide What about a juicy rant on "Conductors who got tangled up in murky business!" Such as a. e. Michel Tabachnik and "The Order of The Solar Temple".

[@geraldmartin7703]

Stokowski was a major label jumper. I've always wondered why.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

He never had his own orchestra after Philadelphia. When he was with them, he had a label.

[@smudger671]

@@garynilsson416 Karajan was similar which is why a lot of his recordings suck.

[@brianwilliams9408]

​@@DavesClassicalGuideHe had Houston from 1955 to 1960.

[@jerelzoltick6900]

Dave..consider doing a video on curent over rated conductors

[@ruramikael]

Kamu also recorded for EMI early on while on DG.

[@vdtv]

A pretty much forgotten set of recordings with Andrew Davis in Toronto is his set of all three (2.5) Borodin symphonies. Nobody did them then, and not many do them now (except for the second, a bit) so even if the sound was only so-so it was a worthy project. Pity they used voices in the Polovtsian dances, but - so be it. A nice set to have had. Probably not one to go for today, but in its time? Very nice indeed.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It was, and it still is a good set.

[@HD-su9sq]

Dave, I'm a pilot, and I promise not to go beyond listening! Your videos are always interesting.

[@markmiller3713]

I suppose this all depends upon how contracts are written, but if an artist records with a label, then leaves the label, and subsequent to that the label releases box sets, does the artist still get royalties even though he/she isn't with the record company any more?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes.

[@rogermilne8563]

Andrew Davis got the call from Chandos when Richard Hickox died suddenly and left some unfinished series (e.g. Holst and Vaughan Williams).

[@rogermilne8563]

Oh, and RIP to Maestro Davis. Death announced today aged 80.

[@josephgreen8149]

What about Haitink? Didn’t Philips dump him in the midst of a Berlin Mahler cycle and a Vienna Bruckner cycle?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not exactly. That was the general industry implosion.

[@RModillo]

Eschenbach was a fine pianist, although with less flashy things like Mozart. His technique didn't quite win him the same number of friends as a conductor.

[@davidgoulden5956]

His '76 Hammerklavier for EMI is - to my ears - mighty impressive. And yet it never gets mentioned.

[@poturbg8698]

What about Muti? Dumped by EMI and then by Phillips.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

He wasn't dumped. He switched.

[@cvanderh9986]

Franz Welser-Möst is now only a major label artist around new year. For all the other days he can be on this list as well.

[@AlexMadorsky]

The Cleveland Orchestra has its own house label now, so that will be his label home until he retires I think.

[@paullewis2413]

I’m not overall the greatest fan of Wagner, (though I do like the Ring Cycle) however Leinsdorf’s “Die Walkure” is an absolute winner.

[@doninvictoria]

Vickers. He da man

[@jaykauffman4775]

@@Michael_in_Jena if you can access a copy listen to the live broadcast. It’s really better than the studio effort. But I still wonder how great it would have been under the original choice Mitropoulos

[@brianburtt7053]

Does Christoph von Dohnanyi count for this?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, I don't think so. He always was a Decca artist.

[@johnanderton4200]

I thought Chung got launched on Bis doing Nielsen, and moved to DG later. Nevermind

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I said that.

[@johnanderton4200]

@@DavesClassicalGuide that’s why I said never mind. I’m one of those annoying people that comments before the video is over

[@fred6904]

Hello Dave. Have you done a talk about the general music industry implosion? If not it would be interesting. When did the first signs turn up? 1994?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, many times.

[@pianomaly9]

Not as knowledgeable as many commenters, but I remember major record outlets and department store classical sections beginning to shrink noticably in the mid '70's. Mid 60's until then there were acres of discs. By the mid 80's after CD's came, there wasn't much more than The Three Tenors, Baroque trumpet concertos and maybe Beethoven's or Dvorak's Greatest Hits. Of course there were exceptions, like the Tower Classical Annex on Sunset Blvd. and the Tower in West Covina that held on for a while.

[@salt_cots]

I’d love to know about William Christie. Did he ditch Harmonia Mundi, a company which did so much to promote him in French baroque. He went to Erato and made good recordings, but later returned to HM, as well as doing thing on Les Arts Flo's own label

[@ianng9915]

Am I the only one who can't hear anything?

[@stephenklugewicz2714]

Yes

[@deVriesOP125]

I don’t have sound too..

[@trevorguy63]

The audio seems fine for me

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's fine by me.

[@ianng9915]

​@@DavesClassicalGuideit's good now thanks

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

Thank you. I remember them and have several of their recordings. I did not know they had been chopped by the labels. I read Edo de Waart passed away the other day.

[@leestamm3187]

He's still alive. He announced his retirement a few days ago.