Robert Kuhn's "Closer to Truth" interview with David Bentley Hart www.closertotr...
Пікірлер: 146
@turbogg1006 жыл бұрын
Like Terrence McKenna says, the scientistic worldview of a "Big Bang Universe from Nothing" seems to be, "Give us one free miracle, and we'll explain the rest."
@daithiocinnsealach19825 жыл бұрын
I disagree. Atheists, to me, recognize the true scope of science which explains the natural world in ever increasing clarity, and the true limits of philosophy and religion which are never able to definitively answer the questions they have been designed to it seems. When done right philosophy helps us to think more clearly and when done right religion helps us to act more morally, but in spite of all the hubbub they just can't seem to answer fully the ultimate question of existence.
@davidgould94314 жыл бұрын
"Big Bang universe from Nothing" wrongly conflates the "Big bang" and the possible emergence of the universe from nothing. Quantum fluctuations (the "from nothing" bit) aren't miraculous. Cosmological inflation (the "big bang" bit) is a plausible hypothesis. "Scientistic", on the other hand, appears to be a derogatory neologism trying to deride people who think that it's better to look at the data and work out how it could have happened rather than just going with what gives a warm, fuzzy feeling.
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns3 жыл бұрын
🙄
@turbogg72133 жыл бұрын
@@davidgould9431 You are comfortable taking the most profound mystery -- being-from-nothing -- and with a semantic wave of the hand, CALL it "Quantum fluctuations," thus imagining you have solved the mystery of existence. I, on the other hand, am skeptical.
@davidgould94313 жыл бұрын
@@turbogg7213 I have no firm idea whether quantum fluctuations have anything to do with how the universe got here (always assuming there was some sort of nothing "before", about which I also have no firm idea). The scientists are looking into it (and other hypotheses). I'm happy to stand on the sideline and watch the game.
@Glassr916 жыл бұрын
I've been waiting on this for ages.
@Mark_Dyer1 Жыл бұрын
What I love about DAVID BENTLEY HART is the way he lacks 'academic manners'. He is no gentle, polite debater. He gives no quarter: if he considers some forms of religion to be psychotic and dangerous, he tells us!
@andrewwhite63 жыл бұрын
This guy's vocabulary leaves me wanting. Impaccable communicator,!
@joshua_finch6 жыл бұрын
Also just as relevant to the question of whether there is a creator: these men are of drastically different size.
@vampireducks16225 жыл бұрын
Right! It looks a bit weird.
@sambamstewart6 жыл бұрын
So good!
@sambamstewart6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for postingd
@kphala49472 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!!! Crystal clear.
@whoami84346 жыл бұрын
It happened... finally.
@theophilus7496 жыл бұрын
Robert L Kuhn should have spoken to this man years ago and saved himself a great deal of nonsense.
@deathtoallpoets6 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the exact same thing.
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
Hart has no facts God exists,he just has sophisticated Faith...most Ancient Historians would school him!!
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
Lauren B kzbin.info/www/bejne/mILQfnmHr9d4qcU
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
Lauren B KEN HUMPHREYS: ON JESUS: kzbin.info/aero/PLxle3WF_KAEnRFn0q9CXlYNsMLvbgLOJf
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
Why, Hart is wrong is everything his says..just metaphysical Apologetics and nonsense..Dr Richard Carrier would destroy him!!
@nyworker3 ай бұрын
Certainly you can dispel God but you can't dispel mystery. Arrogant scientists can dispel God and say they have all of the answers about a physical universe but they cannot dispel the human angst and mystery of whether we have existed before or will exist after this life. RLK is great at discussing so much in the moment and is a skilled interlocutor.
@tedgrant27 ай бұрын
The universe is an imagined collection of everything that exists now. The difficulty with this concept is that little word "now". There is no "now" in the Theory of Relativity.
@metatron48903 ай бұрын
Cosmology can contribute to our philosophic understanding of the universe by telling us that the universe is eternal. Eternalism, if true, would lead us to conclude that the universe is eternal and it would not need a creator. Note that an eternal universe does not mean that the universe existed forever in the past.
@demergent_deist3 ай бұрын
If by cosmology you mean natural philosophy, then you may be right. If cosmology is only empirical knowledge plus the scientific method, then it cannot provide any information about the beginning or eternity of the universe.
@withoutlimits164 жыл бұрын
Hugh Ross is also great on these questions.
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns3 жыл бұрын
Opposite approaches though
@jeffreyzimler7978Ай бұрын
True
@1234567mrbob4 жыл бұрын
I find it fascinating that they're sitting in what appears to be a mall, but with no customers. Did they close the mall for them?
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns3 жыл бұрын
University* Livin that hemorrhoid-free lifestyle 🤜🐥
@Autobotmatt4283 жыл бұрын
I think its some were in Notre Dame University where Hart works. Depend on when this was shot.
@RootinrPootine Жыл бұрын
Have you ever been to a mall?
@1234567mrbob Жыл бұрын
@@RootinrPootine Have I ever not been to one?
@tedgrant2Ай бұрын
I had a sneaky feeling that these questions would lead to God. And by "God" I mean, of course, the god of Israel, not any other !
@tedgrant22 ай бұрын
I want him to study "animal cruelty" from a theological point of view. Do animals feel pain just like us or are they robots with no soul ? What is the point of sacrificing robots ? (Isaiah 1:11)
@greatsea5 жыл бұрын
did these two heavyweights actually misuse the word "ambivalent" ?
@flipgsp5 жыл бұрын
Can you explain. It's not a word I use so I can't quite tell how he used it as opposed to what word he should have used.
@ShadowKyuubi27504 жыл бұрын
yes, I think they meant to say indifferent or apathetic
@paulallenscards2 жыл бұрын
They didn’t
@greatsea2 жыл бұрын
@@paulallenscards they absolutely did
@guywholivesforart11 ай бұрын
No, I don't think they did. "Ambivalence" can be used to refer to "indifference", but the two terms are not quite equivalent. Ambivalence indicates a simultaneous attraction to and repulsion from a thing. In this context, the term would seem to refer not to an uncaring stance in regard to contemporary Christians appraising cosmology, but rather a genuine interest restrained by the understanding that pursuing the avenue as a course of academic study will not answer the ultimate question being proposed. This would appear to correspond to the stance Dr. Hart articulated. (And in fact, this definition actually comes from his favorite dictionary, Webster's New International Dictionary, 2nd Edition!)
@therougesage74662 жыл бұрын
I’d say it’s important that the universe had a beginning so that way god isn’t coeternal with creation in my opinion it’s not enough just to say god and creation are ontologically distinguished as the contingent and the necessary. It’s just seems illogical though to say anything contingent could even possibly be coeternal ,So therefore creation needs a beginning
@therougesage7466 Жыл бұрын
@@chanting_germ. wait how are you disagreeing with me?
@theophilus7493 ай бұрын
God is _essentially_ eternal, but an eternal universe would _just happen to be_ (i.e., be contingently) eternal. Just that is the crucial difference. Also the universe would be eternal in the sense of 'eternally going through time' but God would be eternal in the tense of transcending time. Thus, all round, God and creation would not be 'co-eternal' in exactly the same sense, so it would be, as DBH says, irrelevant to the theological concept of creation whether the universe was eternal or not.
@pasquino07336 жыл бұрын
Why does Hart associate himself with Christianity in particular? What he is describing here might well integrate a Stoic cosmology with modern cosmology. If Aquinas says this then he is justifying Aristotle who viewed the universe as eternal. So how then does Hart rationalize still using the term "creation"? His thoughts are interesting but not comprehensively clear. I would also like to see a theologian who doesn't create a dualistic epistemology between materialism vs God/Logos. A monistic approach would be a lot more satisfying.
@Jemoh666 жыл бұрын
Pasquino 0 Please explain why you have a problem with a dualist epistemology and why you think a monistic approach would be better
@pasquino07336 жыл бұрын
In relation to the discussion above, my problem with dualism relates to the notion of a "beginning" and a contingency. If the Logos "God" is the underlying principle at work in the universe then as Hart recognizes questions of beginning verse an infinite regression are somewhat irrelevant. An orthodox Christian and Platonic world view are lacking in evidence, as Bertrand Russell recognized. Only a very small number of parapsychologists - on the fringe of science - attempt to demonstrate otherwise. It seems to me, that even if one is going to entertain a dualistic world view, for it to be coherent ie not Manichean, perhaps it must ultimately come under the umbrella of monism.
@pasquino07336 жыл бұрын
In short, I think the view of God that is going to make sense of reality as we know it in the 21st century, will have to come closest to a pre-socratic philosophical and mystical perspective. That is a monistic outlook. If we wish to reject the destructive nihilism of modernity then the Logos of Heraclitus will have to usurp the duality that Christianity claimed to have bridged by the Logos of the gospel of John, in order for "religion" to remain culturally relevant.
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns5 жыл бұрын
@@pasquino0733 Brother, I think you need to look into psychical research more. From the kakie sittings, to the replicated EEG and fMRI correlation studies, to the debate between Hyman and Honorton, to the work that Bierman replicated, etc. Frankly, the evidence for psi is overwhelming, *but* that actually is not relevant to the question of theism vs atheism and many parapsychologists think that psi effects are just part of biology and partly rooted in our evolutionary history. I'd be happy to get into the data with you if you'd like, although I really don't think the reality of psi would help theism at all. Secondly, Hart is *very* open to the idea of an infinite *linear* regress. I.e. he's open to the idea that the universe (or the mega-verse) has an *infinite* past/history. Feser (e.g. in his 2017 "Five Proofs") likewise is open to the idea of an infinite past. Aquinas was also open to this philosophically (he denied it on scriptural grounds, but he did not think you could demonstrate this philosophically, UNLIKE Craig, of whom I have mixed thoughts). *However*, there is a *different* kind of regress that Hart (and Feser) deny could be infinite, and that's a here-and-now hierarchical regress of simultaneously-acting causes, which they argue at length and forcefully must terminate with a "First" member or a most fundamental member. They argue at length rather than merely asserting it. You really need to engage their actual (and worthy) arguments IMHO. Moreover, Feser dedicates a lot of space to arguing why this First Member (or why the most Fundamental Member) of the hierarchical regress must have consciousness/will/intelligence or be Mindlike. I am not sure how I feel about those latter arguments, but Feser's case for the necessity of such a first member seems very strong to me, and I'm an agnostic who lacks belief in God... Third, with respect, Russel's arguments *against* theism are greatly overrated, I'm genuinely sorry to say. Mackie was a more persuasive atheist.
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns Жыл бұрын
@@chanting_germ. You are mistaken on the whole. There’s no doubt that SOME of the research has methodological problems, and also no doubt that a portion of the literature that’s at least equal in size does NOT have methodological problems. French and Wiseman say otherwise, but the actual issues have been hashed out, and I invite people to actually study the evidence (Cardena 2018, Hodgson 1898, etc)
@richardcaruso77276 жыл бұрын
Who needs this professor when we all can look at squirrels chasing their own tails? (of course - loving the question more than the answer makes for endless book contracts - thanks only to his PHD category)
@saturngenesis1306 Жыл бұрын
@@chanting_germ. ..alright?
@richardcaruso77274 жыл бұрын
Let me 'laydown the law', Type: The Eye of God Whisperer, into the KZbin 'searchbox'. Click a couple more times to see my tutorial video. At the end, the resulting image, is later copyrighted by the Library of Congress, Washington, D.C. I kid you not - this official Certificate, awarded in my name only, states: (Very first software result showing Eye of God)
@plnthn4 жыл бұрын
Why does the Universe has to come from something like a supernatural being ?....We're still not quite certain whether the universe actually had a beginning or not.....and I'm not just talking about the observable Universe Why does it have to come from something that could very well be a figment of our imagination ? Why can't we just settle with the fact that we just don't know a shit about that...as yet....Why should we stuff our imaginary friend(s) in the gaps that science has not paved as yet ?
@preasidium134 жыл бұрын
the question theists are asking isn’t “what started existence” it’s “why does anything exist at all”
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns4 жыл бұрын
Paul Anthony, you didn’t listen to the video at all. Listen to it again.
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
As the Universe expands...Matter will separate.. colossus differences will increase.. these particles won't know the difference and neither will the Universe,so where is God then?
@gabepearson61043 жыл бұрын
What?
@gabepearson61043 жыл бұрын
How on earth does that refute harts argument
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
The Universe didn't come from nothing..Maths shows it could have created itself...such is the power of Quantum Mechanics
@strigoi58905 жыл бұрын
Colin Dowson how did it “create itself” if it didn’t yet exist to pull that off
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
Strigoi What I mean is,we have a mathematical model that shows, assuming a Multiverse,the Universe can create itself....of course Theists will say who made the Maths and Multiverse...God is always being pushed back when Science moves forward! At the moment,Science doesnt fully understand origins but neither do Theists unless you can find Quantum Field theory,DNA Einstein's Field Equations in Genesis! Why cite God when the problems get hard!! The Bible is neither divine or historical! What's the difference between Myth and historical Fiction?
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns5 жыл бұрын
That model *presupposes* the existence of quantum states of affairs/quantum vacuum/ etc. It doesn't explain *why* that quantum state exists in the first place. Literally, "the universe created itself" is self-defeating. So it's not even a logical possibility. I know what you meant but I just hate that phrasing. David Albert has a damning critique of Krauss' book at www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/a-universe-from-nothing-by-lawrence-m-krauss.html Krauss replied by saying that Albert is "just a philosopher." Er, except Albert's PhD is actually in *theoretical physics.* Ooops...
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
meow meowmeow Ever hear of String Theory which shows a Multiverse probably exists...you can't keep citing God...that's a fallacy of Composition... conflating Causality with Being!
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
meow meowmeow We actually have a mathematical model by a Christian at Princeton...which shows a Universe can create itself into another ..more evidence for a Multiverse not God
@1DangerMouse14 жыл бұрын
He's arguing God of the gaps... Dressed up pretentious and fancy.
@reasonforge99974 жыл бұрын
No. Actually he is not. The original meaning of the "God of the gaps" is a God of some parts of nature and not of other. But he is arguing for the God of all nature, not just the gaps. These days "God of the gaps" also sometimes merely means an "argument from ignorance" fallacy that has God as its conclusion. This expanded meaning does not apply either. His reference to the contingency cosmological arguments do not commit any such fallacy. Still there is the common new-atheist usage of "God of the gaps" which seems to apply to anything at all in any context as being taken as evidence for God being automatically a fallacy. But that is not so much a fallacy by Theists, but simply new-atheists rationalizing their evidence immunity.
@feelin_fine Жыл бұрын
He's literally doing the opposite. He actually said explicitly that "even if" cosmologists could explain the origins of the universe down to the Big Bang, or demonstrate an eternal universe, none of this would touch on the ontological issue of contingency that he's getting at. He's fine following the science on cosmology, but thinks it's a category error to confuse this with ontology. You're arguing with a strawman.
@rationalsceptic76345 жыл бұрын
Theists should Debate Dr Richard Carrier or A.C Grayling or any better educated mind than yours..check your sources..you would lose,badly as would Hart,another deeply self deluded man! Faith is a psychological need not a fact!! I'm actually a searching Agnostic,not Atheist,thx,tc
@eddieking29766 жыл бұрын
"I have no dog in that fight." Translation: "I have no working model so I'm going to believe an invisible, supernatural deity magically spoke everything into existence."
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns5 жыл бұрын
If you think that's his approach then you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. I would never make such an equally false and uncharitable interpretation of Dawkins, or Harris, or Mackie, etc, so please don't do it with Hart. The fact that Hart is *open* to an eternal mega-verse/multi-verse should be a breath of fresh air to atheists. His case has nothing to do with cosmology. For the record, I don't believe in God.
@gyanw96125 жыл бұрын
Eddie King You had this playing in the background while you played Candy Crush, no ? You are saying he stands for the position he is arguing against. The questioner says “You have no dog in the fight of whether the universe had a beginning or not” with which Hart agrees and goes on to criticize those who believe the Big Bang strengthens the argument for a creator God creating from nothing.
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns5 жыл бұрын
@@gyanw9612This Eddie King fella is very good at *ignoring* the philosophical principle of charity.
@georgechristiansen67855 жыл бұрын
More like: "None of the working models addresses the point of where the working models came from."
@tylerlynch28493 жыл бұрын
Translation of your comment: I fling playground insults around on the internet to assuage my deep inferiority next to minds of actual substance
@davidgould94314 жыл бұрын
Around 5:40ish: "I have no dog in this fight". In other words, he doesn't want to discuss whether a god-free universe is possible. What a waste of an interview.
@ArchHades4 жыл бұрын
He has no dog in the fight on whether the universe has a beginning or not. Not whether it's God free or not. He thinks it requires God no matter what.
@davidgould94314 жыл бұрын
@@ArchHades Ah, good point. I suspect that your explanation still includes his not wanting to discuss whether a god-free universe is possible. Because he thinks it isn't. Anyway, I was being a bit of a grumpy old man. There is no such thing as a "wasted interview": you always learn something, even if you have to "read between the lines" to do so. Thanks for the heads-up: I should have paid more attention to the preceding question.
@ArchHades4 жыл бұрын
@@davidgould9431 There have been plenty of theists throughout time who believed in an eternal universe, such as Avicenna. Me personally I believe because of the Big Bang theory that Space-Time does not go eternally into the past, so there was legitimately a 1st day/a day with no yesterday. But as Hart says that doesn't mean that there wasn't an underlying physical state responsible for giving us the first day. Probably a quantum mechanical physical system. Anyway, Cosmology not only cannot answer the question of God, it can't even ask it. The concept of God is a question of ontology.
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns4 жыл бұрын
David, you are just wrong here. You are conflating “god free universe” with “eternal universe,” even though most cosmological arguments for theism do NOT presuppose a finite universe. You miss understood Hart and clearly don’t know his positions. Your comments are outrageous misrepresentations. Hart has no problem discussing the possibility of reality without God, though he comes to conclusions that you may not agree with. He doesn’t think there can be an explanation for reality unless we invoke classical theism. This is a short interview that barely scratches the surface.
@davidgould94314 жыл бұрын
@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns Thank you for misrepresenting my original post and ignoring my mea culpa reply.