David Platt on Universalism, Rob Bell, Love Wins, Heaven and Hell

[@lancemarchetti8673]

This man speaks by the true Spirit of Christ Jesus...and his complexion radiates the love of God..unlike many of the comments on this page...Keep going David Platt - you have my support and prayers. (Lance Marchetti - South Africa)

[@oneskepticalguy781]

That man just said 600,000,000 Hindu's are going to eternal torture, while he just stands there "radiating the love of God"! What wrong with this picture?

[@lancemarchetti8673]

My friend, please read Matthew chapter 7. Jesus said that many who professed to believe in Him and do good works, will be cast into eternal darkness along with all the wicked. This sobering text clearly shows that many professed 'christians' will also be cast into hell by God Himself. So what is your point exactly ?

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Lance Marchetti My point? Start here... "This sobering text clearly shows that many professed 'christians' will also be cast into hell by God Himself" Christians too? Wow, that means statistically about 6 Billion people out of about 7 Billion people, are destined for eternal torture! If that is true, How do you know *YOU* are not a "Christian" destined for hell? You say "lord lord" You do "Good works" You rebuke "demons" You "do miracles" Perhaps it is because you think you are doing the *Will* of our Father who is in heaven. So then what is our Fathers *Will* ?

[@Praveenajay1]

Thanks for having concern about India. We are praying & preaching gospel. I want to request one-thing, current Govt. in India is totally opposite to Christianity. So please more for India.

[@lealeandre1063]

Praveen Ajay India is full of people who are loved by God. He made them, and He wants to save them all. The Gospel will continue to be preached there and millions will come to the knowledge of the truth. God is love and all who speak that love language will hear God's voice and respond to Him no matter where they are. "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God" 1 John 4: 7 Be encouraged and be abundantly blessed! Your work will be rewarded when Jesus returns. :}

[@evamaria7747]

Interesting. I have always thought that it was kind of strange that God expects us mere mortals to LOVE and FORGIVE everybody (even our enemies), while He Himself allegedly wants to torture his enemies in eternal hell. That makes no sense whatsoever. Also....how could we mere mortals be genuinely loving and forgiving if we seriously believe in a punitive, revengeful God.???

[@rathoresrishti8034]

Exactly. Same question.

[@allegoria07]

What’s why I don’t believe in God who needs to torture anyone or separate Himself from His children

[@JustSaying1957]

Not only is it kind of strange but it’s a lie strait from the pit of hell!

[@GrandAmyGamer]

That’s it, right there. 👍🏼

[@Sasyke52]

Exactly God is not like that

[@thrutch599]

The problem with this response is that some of the most capable and gifted early Greek-speaking Christians (who would have read the New Testament in its probable original language) were definitely universalists. See David Hart's recently published translation of the New Testament for some excellent comments on this very topic.

[@jhq9064]

Good bye bad news so called gospel for a good news Blessed Hope!

[@Eclectifying]

1 John 4:17 "This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." Amen!

[@jhq9064]

Colossians 1:16-20. Romans 5:18

[@UniversalismProven]

David said in the Psalms - "If I make my bed in Sheol (Hades), behold you are there." You Hell preachers say that Hell is total separation from God. So YOU keep reading your Bible and let the truth hit YOU!

[@calebbasile2219]

Yep, God reigns in hell. The lost souls will be tormented in the presence of God and his Holy Angels

[@artbyrobot1]

well technically, supposing Abraham's bosom has upper and lower Hades if we take the Lazarus and the rich man parable as a reflection of Hades as a waiting place, then David could theoretically point to God being where David would be in upper Hades with Abraham awaiting the resurrections of the dead. But as pointed out, even in the lake of fire it is said that the torment is in the presence of the Lamb and the holy angels

[@wisedyes]

The most twisted and convoluted logic. Despite hundreds of years of missionary outreach, MILLIONS will still burn in hell forever. How about we discard this repugnant misunderstanding and LOVE people. How many would respond to that? We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord And we pray that our unity will one day be restored And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love

[@jakebull2571]

What do you mean by “love” them? Do you mean be tolerant of their beliefs? If so, Jesus was not very tolerant (John 14:6)

[@zachwhitlow4]

Ok but what are we loving them for? Just to be good upstanding citizens?

[@wisedyes]

@@jakebull2571 Jesus was intolerant of religious hypocrisy. He was very "tolerant" and understanding of the reality of the condition people find themselves in. That love is what reached them and helped them turn away from their sins, ie repent. It is God's kindness that leads to repentance. It is what every human heart needs and desires.

[@artbyrobot1]

@@wisedyes Godly sorrow by seeing one's wickedness leads to repentance too though. And so calling out people's sins, which got the apostles martyred, is a loving way too as long as its done in a Christlike fashion seasoned with salt.

[@wisedyes]

@@artbyrobot1 Before calling out others sins, remove the LOG from your own eye. Jesus's words. Often our perception of "sin" is clouded and incomplete. Nothing worse than rebuking some under false pretense. Many have been driven out of the church and even away from Jesus because of such judgement. Love id patient. Love is kind. The Holy Spirit will convict of sin.

[@evamaria7747]

Well, maybe people who say that they believe in hell just kind of like the idea that their "enemies" (i.e. people they hate and bear a grudge against.....or people who are in some way different from them - like Buddhist or Hindus....or people who they just simply don't give a damn about) will suffer eternally in hell. Maybe it is just revenge fantasy for them.

[@bryanpratt5850]

If you believed hell wasn't eternal, and everyone would eventually get out of it, how would that change the way you lived? Would you still seek after God? Would you then go out and sin it up? If you would take a break from God and party to your hearts content then what does that say about your heart and the reasons you do what you do. God doesn't want people to follow Him out of fear, but out of love. Even if Hell is not forever, It is vain to search for fulfillment in sin. Jesus alone fulfills

[@dannytibi]

"but your trying to corner me or get a certain chose of words from me" Yes, I'm trying to corner you into being consistent. At this point I'm still not sure whether you think God is lacking in Power, Love or both...

[@philthomas4187]

He totally misses the point. When you say, if everyone will be okay in the end, so we can do whatever we want, you're saying you worship a God that, without threat of eternal punishment, is NOT good enough. however, when you worship a God of endless glory and love, you don't need the threat of hell looming over you. A relationship with God is simply the better option.

[@philthomas4187]

***** Your theory has more than a few plot holes buddy. 1. If hell is this place that most people go to, God as an artist is pretty much a failure. Imagine this conversation. "Hey God what did you do today?" "Oh ya know, I made billions upon billions of people, and I wanted all of them to love me." "How'd that go?" "Well... I mean most of them are burning eternally." In that light God literally fails. The story he tells (as an Artistic Creative being) actually sucks. 2.If we're evil, and inherently bad, God must also be flawed. I understand that in Genesis we supposedly ate of the tree of good and evil, disobeying God, but a perfect being couldn't create the imperfect (which we clearly were, call it a choice if you want to, but the ability to make wrong choices is the definition of imperfection) meaning imperfection is our natural state, meaning we were basically created for hell. That isn't divinity. That's a psychopath.

[@philthomas4187]

***** You haven't addressed the meat of what I just said. You acknowledge that adam is evil, and that adam made a mistake, but the disconnect is the illogical notion that a perfect God created an imperfect being. Turn of the Evangelical Bible quoting robot, and have a conversation. Answer the question, how is this?

[@chriscox9143]

+Phil Thomas well said brother!

[@chriscox9143]

+Mike M free will? really? another unbiblical lie, like hell. where was Jonah's? the pharaoh? etc etc ad nauseam

[@k0smon]

MikeM/// The bible itself refutes your theory. Ezk 18.19-20 "The son SHALL NOT bear the iniquity of the Father" Each person is responsible for himself. "Vain is that hope that rests upon another's merits". (Cyrilus Luchar)

[@simthiam3712]

We can still believe that all mankind will eventually be saved n yet continue preaching the Gospel, simply out of gratitude to God as well as to share the good news.

[@jerardosc9534]

Sim Thiam Would you preach Hell and damnation for those without Jesus Christ??

[@IrishEddie317]

@@jerardosc9534 Why not preach rather the immense love of God? Which is better, people serving God out of fear or out of love?

[@artbyrobot1]

David would refuse to evangelize if he didn't believe hell's duration is literally forever since then he wouldn't care about all the people suffering not knowing Christ nor suffering in hell for whatever space of time. He admitted he'd stop caring or having urgency by his own lips exposing his heart is not right.

[@artbyrobot1]

@@jerardosc9534 I believe hell duration is not literally forever and I sure would preach hell and damnation for those without Jesus Christ. Why wouldn't I? It's weird that you think if someone denies hell is unending literally, then they would deny all of scripture and deny the need for Jesus and deny hell even exists at all. There is no need to go full heresy just because you take a duration of time to be a nonliteral duration.

[@jerardosc9534]

@@artbyrobot1 The OP went full heresy in saying all people would eventually be saved (Universalism). If you are taking an annihalationist view, then you would be arguing differently than the op and the conversation would go in a different direction.

[@77goanywhere]

I was delivered from religious dualistic "Christianity" when I took on a detailed study of the doctrine of "hell". I can tell you that the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment, that is taught in most evangelical churches today is a relatively modern doctrine that was NOT taught in the early church. The dualism that has led to this false idea that only people who have made a "decision" for Jesus are going to heaven is NOT Christianity. The one who first propagated this idea was St Augustine who was a Platonist who believed in the duality of creation, and that there was a gulf between the evil natural world and the "holy" world of heaven. He taught that only those who were "pure" would go to heaven, and simply used the sacrifice of Jesus as the means of purification. This is in stark contrast to Athanasius, who recognised that ALL creation came about IN and THROUGH the Son, as John Ch 1 states. Every human being G got here only because they were created IN CHRIST, as Paul explained in many places. And ALL creation was redeemed through the crucifixion, and resurrection of the Son, the LOGOS, in whom everything exists. God's appeal to humanity is not to ask Jesus into our lives to purify us so that we can go to heaven. It is that heaven has come to us in the person and work of Jesus, and we can now choose to be reconciled to God. So what does belief accomplish? It opens our hearts and minds to God for us to be transformed by His love. Just like any relationship, our relationship with God must be established in trust. So faith is our response to God's revelation of his love and forgiveness to us, leading to deep trust and the fullness the life of Christ in us. So much more to say!

[@grafxgrl8030]

I only have a little bit to say whereas you had a lot. My comment is that you’re wrong. The Bible is truth. Jesus talks about hell a lot and warns people against it. There are a number of people who have had near death experiences and have gone and come back to tell us all about it and to warn us. I suspect you don’t care about my perspective on it or will ignore this or make a negative comment back to me, but I will tell you in all sincerity that God spoke to me out loud about 15 to 20 years ago and told me “The only thing that’s true about you as what I say in my Word. Everything else is a lie.” I would encourage you to read the Bible for yourself with an open heart and ask God to show you the truth. He guarantees he will do so if you are sincere.

[@77goanywhere]

@@grafxgrl8030 Do you think I have not read and studied the Bible? Jesus never used the word "Hell" once. That is an English translation of the PAGAN mythical god of the underworld, "Hel", which was imported into the LATIN bible in error. The word he used mainly was Hades, which is the Greek translation of Sheol, or the aramaic equivalent. And Sheol is NOT a place of eternal punishment. Both the righteous and unrighteous descend into Sheol, which simply means the grave. Check out what I am saying, don't just swallow what you are told.

[@grafxgrl8030]

@@77goanywhere I wouldn’t know if you’d read it. I can tell you the God has shown me several things, all in waking visions, He spoke to me out loud twice and said “The only thing that’s true about you is what I say in My Word. Everything else is a lie.”, and He has spoken to me one other time supernaturally and many times in my spirit. He speaks of hell throughout the Word, regardless what modern man calls it. Bill Weise, like many others, was taken there and sent back to warn people. We choose where we will spend eternity by our choice to follow Jesus here or not. It sounds like you have made your choice. I am replying to you to ask you to reconsider. Here is a video of Bill’s. He is easy to find on You Tube. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5mvp6p4h8x4d68

[@77goanywhere]

@@grafxgrl8030 I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree. You are free to believe what you want, but I have solid grounds for my views on the subject of "Hell". For a start, the very word is not in the original languages. And secondly, if God supposedly punishes the unrepentant "sinner" for EVER, then the stated plan of God according to Jeaus and Paul to "bring all things in Heaven and Earth together under one head, even Christ" will never be realized. Really? Do you think that 90% of the human race abandoned in unbearable punishment for ever is a fitting realization of the ultimate glorious plan of God?

[@grafxgrl8030]

@@77goanywhere we do the choosing of eternity with or without Him by accepting or rejecting the Gospel - that He lived, died and was raised in our place for our sins.

[@dannytibi]

So you would agree that a loving character would desire to keep people from endless suffering, right?

[@Mclark593]

OK. You cannot just watch one little short video in which his focus was not on how we should present the gospel. It was about Universalism. If you actually took the time to watch a full sermon, your doubt, your accusations, whatever you want to call it are wrong. I really hope you actually watch more of his sermons all the way through. God bless you.

[@evamaria7747]

Personally, I do think that (in a way) hell really does exist. It is the psychological hell that the majority of people live in right here and now. It is fear, anxiety, stress, irritation, anger, worries, hatred, depression, greed, envy, and so on. It is any inner state that keeps us seperated from love, inner peace, and joy.

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Yes, I was taught that in Sunday School! Ive learned so much more since then!

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Things that make you go Hmmmm... Hell would be an eternal reminder to God that Satan won more Souls!

[@bigjo5940]

Trust me my friend Satan will not enjoy any trophies at all. his damnation is ten times worse then others this is not about who's winning the game here it's about people denying Jesus Christ. The devil gets no glory of anything. He doesn't win a victory over are creator, the scripture sayings choose you this day whom you will serve. If we deny Him Christ, then we will be denied. then the end will be destruction. it's a decision that we must make. If we all who believes in Jesus Christ will come to agreement and pray for the Lost that their Hearts turns towards God, there be many that will escape hell.

[@UniversalismProven]

People need to know the truth NOW! People do not need to be in anguish over their loved ones being tormented mercilessly for eternity. The Gospel is about being free from sin in THIS life. My God is NOT an eternal terrorist, and people need to know that RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW!

[@UniversalismProven]

I believed as you now do for over 30 years. God removed the scales from my eyes and lifted the veil of deceit. The Holy Spirit has shown me the truth after much study with an open heart to the Lord and much prayer. Thank God that He delivered me from that evil doctrine. I will pray that he grants you the same grace.

[@artbyrobot1]

Do you now not care about the lost enough to present the gospel to them? David says if you don't believe hell's duration is unending then there's no urgency to tell anyone about Christ because their lost condition would not matter to David in that case.

[@Mclark593]

Yes, I do know my Lord Jesus. He saved me from my sin. Has He saved you from your sin? According to your false doctrine nobody needs to be saved. I will continue to pray for you. God bless you.

[@EXALTEDDIRT]

O.K. Thanks for the admonition and I will do as you have asked......GODSPEED!

[@robertmckay6315]

God so loved the world that he decided to dam the most of them. Robert Ingersoll

[@gemguy6812]

No, we all deserve death and hell, Everybody, less one. We are all wretched sinners that deserve to fry in hell, and gnash our teeth in eternal punishment and torment.

[@ryanjennens1481]

He decided to provide the Way, they damn themselves

[@gemguy6812]

@@ryanjennens1481 to accept or reject-- a loving God would never force anybody into His presence for eternity if they reject Him, love, MUST be freely given.

[@ryanjennens1481]

@@gemguy6812 i don't understand what you just said...

[@gemguy6812]

@@ryanjennens1481 if one rejects the God of all things good, they go to a place void of any good.

[@jrat42]

Let’s see if I got this…Love God because he’s amazing, loving, and forgiving like Rob teaches. Or, love God because you’ll burn forever if you don’t. That’s not love. This life is amazing. Enjoy it and soak in every beautiful second. Heaven is here now, and it’s awesome! There is no eternal hell. There is no eternal heaven. The book he speaks of is full of historical inaccuracies and contradictions. Don’t give up your one life and miss the incredible beauty of our short time in this amazing universe. Love Wins (when you give up fear).

[@MrJonathanOlson]

I try hard to love my neighbor as myself. But among the hardest to love are those who seem to worship God mainly because He is powerful and He owns us and He might torture us. If I take D. Platt at his word then he is hard to admire, a man who will step on the heads of children as he makes his climb toward what he wants. What a cruel, selfish, horrible way to be! So far I am grateful for my life but if he is right then my prayer will be "Put me back, Dear Father, I have seen too much."

[@PureDating]

Great video that inspires us to win the lost for Christ! Thanks for sharing.

[@oneskepticalguy781]

"It is finished!" Christ has already saved the lost, That's the "Good News" your supposed to be spreading to the World, not this pagan myth that you will go to some Hell if you dont choose right!

[@PureDating]

Pagan myth? This doctrine has been taught since the earliest days of the church. Study the early Creeds of Christ's church and you find it. It's not a pagan myth, though many would love to believe this.

[@oneskepticalguy781]

PureDating You have been deceived! Christ as the Savior of the Whole WORLD was the reigning doctrine for the first 500 years of Christs Church! The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopaedia of Religious Knowledge, vol. 12, page 96: “During the first five centuries of Christianity, there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist; one (Ephesus) accepted conditional mortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked.” Facts about those 4 Schools that taught Christian Universalisim; 1) The first Universalist Christians were Greek, perfectly familiar with the language of the NT, Thus they were not challenged for their interpretation of scripture for 500 years! 2) They taught Christs Universal Salvation and that there was no eternal punishment, without the immediate objection of the Greeks fluent in that language? 3) It was the pagans who believed in the myth of eternal torture in some hell, thousands of years before it was ever known by any of Gods people! Surely God did not prophesy to Pagans thousands of years before his own covenent people! 4) Those 4 schools were the closest schools to Jerusalem! The other schools were hundreds of miles away! It was these schools who challenged the Gnostic and Pagans! 5) Alexandria was the center of knowledge for the entire region including The Library at Alexandria! 6) There is no mention of any hell in the early creeds! The Catholic Church slid in the "3 days in hell" in the 5th century! They have since removed it from their creed today! 6) It was the Church of Rome who believed in Hell! That's right, you cling to the invention of the good ol Catholic church! The church of Rome becomes the official state religion, and Hell was a perfect tool to rule with fear and destroy those opposed with the Roman army! 7) Much of what you read in our bibles are atrocious manipulations of the original manuscripts! Today that is being fixed, albeit slowly! Do a word search on Hell, it does not exist in our modern OT translations! That’s 4500 years of Church history, Adam, the flood, the prophets, Moses and his 600 Laws, the enemies of Israel, and no mention of any eternal torture in hell! It is up to you to seek the truth!

[@calebreasons]

Oneskeptical Guy I think you have a skewed theology of WHO God is. The God of the Bible CANNOT tolerate sin. Throughout the entire NT, Jesus taught that all must come to Him in repentance and belief. John 3:16 is the classic example of this. I have done much research on your claims about manuscript manipulation and I cannot find AND valid proofs that you are claiming! The picture of salvation is a beautiful one of the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. The responsibility of man is that he/she must submit to His lordship of their lives. This early church story that you took from J.W. Hanson's book "The first 500 Years" has been WIDELY dis proven as a manipulation of historical facts by the vast majority of christian and secular scholars.

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Caleb Reasons 'The picture of salvation is a beautiful one" -CR I question your ability to think critically and with no bias, when you actually believe that the vast majority of humanity being eternally tortured is "a beautiful picture"! Caleb, if hell is REALLY real, then why is Pratt and the other Christians in the video smiling as they point out those destined for Hell? Or posting video's or comments on KZbin for that matter! If true, Hell would be a much larger tragedy than 911, demanding immediate and total sacrifice, everyday, around the clock, with the tenacity of the firefighters in 911, until ALL in the World are saved from this horrible fate! But yet we do not see any sense of urgency whatsoever from 99.9999999999999% of the church! Regarding Faith in a Belief, Action speaks louder than words! So you you dont have any valid proof of mistranslations? Go do a simple word search of the word Hell and tell me how many times it is in the translations of the NIV, NASB, AMP, ESV, ASV, KJB, AND LATIN VULGATE. 400AD >> LATIN VULGATE = 111 TIMES 1611AD >> KJB = 54 times! 1982AD >> NKJB = 32 times ALL MODERN BIBLES = 0 times mentioned!*** 111 TIMES CORRECTED DOWN TO ZERO TIMES, SPOT A TREND?

[@Unconformed.RenewedDaily]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ begins at one minute fifteen seconds. Thanks #DavidPlatt

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Please tell me how your *"Love me or be tortured for an eternity"* Gospel is good news?

[@Unconformed.RenewedDaily]

God is a Just (righteous, completely Holy) God and to live a life in denial of this truth one would be questioning His worthiness. God does not hide, so if one is questioning this as truth, this will be revealed to him/her. So God being Just and the only one good; to spend eternity in His presence is divine but to force a person into an eternity in the presence of God who they refuse by choice would be torture in itself. God being good vs. life void of God would only include everything in direct opposition which involve torture, fire, thirst, and condemnation for that choice. The good news gives one, sometimes, their first verbal opportunity to embrace the truth, the way, & the (eternal) life: Jesus. 

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Gee, where to start? Im not questioning God, Im questioning you! I study the Hebrew and Greek. According to the churches own sources (which has buried the real truth for centuries), neither the Hebrews nor Greeks of Jesus day had a word or concept of "Eternity" which means your Bibles biased mistranslations have caused you to believe a lie! Hasting’s Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, ) "Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): *Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless "eternal" is misleading*, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the ...noun aion (p. 370): The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. IV, p. 643 "Time: *The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness.* The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life;" then "age," "lifetime." Elliot’s Commentary on the Whole Bible: *(Matt. **25:46**)*. "Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios- *it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness*, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending. The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693): ETERNITY: *The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end*. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as ‘forever,’ means in itself no more than ‘for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean ‘from eternity’ but ‘of old’ Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. Do you want to know the true Gospel?

[@Unconformed.RenewedDaily]

+Oneskeptical Guy thanks for this well defined word, "eternity". I would like to know what you say is the true Gospel. And how does one skeptical guy think another should respond to such a gospel. (Please keep it concise)

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Kevin Rogers Consise? Ok. The true Gospel is the one where any punishment is not eternal!

[@coreyfriend1]

Jesus Truly Is The Savior of the World. (Jn4:42/1Jn4:14/1Tim4:9-11)

[@markderksen4130]

Universalism doesn't hold that everyone goes to heaven when they die. There is a process. That's like someone saying because we believe a temple will eventually be finished, we just sit around and don't work on it.

[@IrishEddie317]

I do like what David Platt says regarding our brothers and sisters who have either not heard of Christ or have followed false religions and rejected Him. But is our sense of evangelizing to come from guilt over people possibly going to hell, or is it to come from a sincere love of God and our fellow man that wants the best for all? You see, when Christ is rejected, our lives fall apart. We suffer great pain and sorrows which come from an earthly and darkened way of thinking. Look at the actions of the pagan religions and how they treat each other. In Islam, women are less than human and treated as such. In the various Hindu cults there are practices which are very harmful to the body and the community. We see how in America, having rejected Christ, our country is filled with things such as abortion, murder, rape, theft, lying, war, and other sad practices. People do not know how to be happy without Christ, so they turn to sin to give them a false sense of happiness. And finally, is it my job to "win souls to Jesus" or is it that of the Holy Spirit and I am simply to be available as a witness to Christ and His love? I have a feeling that those who sit under David Platt's preaching get a regular dose of extreme guilt if they are not "leading souls to Jesus" every week. That is not our job. Our job is to witness to Christ as best we can, looking for every opportunity to plant the seed, and leave the conversion to the Holy Spirit of God. And PS -- Patristic Universalism is true. It was taught by the Church for the first 500 years before Augustine torpedoed it with his pessimistic anthropology.

[@ajaxslamgoody9736]

Jesus said "I AM the truth, the way and the light, Let NO ONE Come to the Father BUT Through Me."

[@IrishEddie317]

Yes, that is true. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole world and of all people. What does that have to do with what I said?

[@artbyrobot1]

@@ajaxslamgoody9736 You can believe Jesus is the only way to the Father and also believe the duration of hell is not literally forever. Don't assume they are mutually exclusive positions because that is a category error.

[@Eclectifying]

My response to the first half of this video: "Do you really believe that everyone who has not trusted in Christ for their salvation will experience damnation when they die? I'm standing right now in northern India, home to 600 million people. They estimate that about 0.5% of the people around me are evangelical Christians...0.5% who have trusted in Christ for salvation.." (Gotta love it that they must be "evangelical Christians" to have trusted in Christ for salvation.) "...That means 597 million people surround me right now who DON'T have Christ..." (OK, David, so why don't you GIVE THEM CHRIST instead of standing there talking about how they are going to roast forever!!?? Time's ticking!) "...The just and gracious Creator of the universe has looked upon hopelessly sinful men and women and their rebellion, and he has sent his Son, God in the flesh, to bear his wrath against sin on the cross..." (Hm, then why do so many still have to bear this wrath? 2 Cor. 5:21, Romans 5:6-8) "...to show his power over sin in the resurrection..." (What power?? 99.9% of the people on this earth remain out of his grasp because of their amazingly powerful sin and "free will") "...That everyone who believes in him...will be reconciled to God forever." (Wait! I thought the world was already reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:19). Huh?) "...Everyone who trusts in themselves and turns from God will be condemned by God forever..." (What? Where does the Bible say that? Besides, haven't ALL of us ALREADY trusted in ourselves and turned from God (Romans 3:23)? ) "...This is the gospel..." (Not much of a gospel!)

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Wow! Talk about you giving Pastor Platt an azz whooping! Good job!

[@unmeritedfavor918]

No. The bible says in Romans 2: 12-16 that people who don't know about God's law will be judged on whether they followed or ignored their conscience during their lifetime. " 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Everyone will be judged, everyone agrees on that point, what about it? The problem is that you have been deceived into believing that judgment = eternal torture and thus God will torture his own creation! At first glance it would seem obvious until you learn the deceptions! Do you want to learn?

[@oneskepticalguy781]

I love how you just mixed up verses out of context to make a patch work quilt of heretical teachings!

[@oneskepticalguy781]

You are so brainwashed! Your Bible is dead wrong! The word is not damnation, but judgment! Regardless, Damnation does not = eternal death or hell! Neither the Hebrews nor Greeks had a word or concept of eternity, so your just spewing lies!!!

[@Matthew-le1eq]

Every knee will bow and every tongue CONFESS that Jesus Christ is Lord.All will call on his name and find salvation.

[@jamaicanification]

Yes and the New Testament also says in the Epistles of St Paul like 1st Corinthians 5 that we are not to judge the consciences of others, but leave finally judgement to God. And in Romans 10:5-7 that we are not the speculate on who goes to heaven above, for that brings Christ down. So this arrogant hubris that many Evangelicals have that only those located specifically in places like the Southern United States or other parts of the Western world(continued)

[@Eclectifying]

And how do people repent? It is God's kindness that leads to repentance (Rom 2:24), not fear of eternal punishment.

[@marke.anderson1072]

OK. I've watched a lot of guys preach over the years, especially lately on the Tube. I'll go with Rob Bell, Crossan, Spong, and Richard Rohr to Hell. You can have heaven and the Platts, Pipers, MacArthurs, and Hovinds.

[@nickswinehart3343]

If heaven is a place that closes its gates to billions of innocent people, count me out. Doesn't sound like any kind of heaven to me.

[@troywright359]

@@nickswinehart3343 but....none of us are truly innocent..... I know what you are saying, but it might be better to try a different wording.

[@bbriley42]

The teachings and life of Jesus of Nazareth were IMHO intended to call us to a new way of life on the planet as a species. It never had anything to do with a bearded man in the sky ready to crush his errant children. It had to do with learning to live with one another on the planet in mutual love and compassion - hardly the model of our American economic system, by the way. The rise over the last 50-100 years of evolutionary spirituality puts a much more holistic model of faith before us - one driven by universal compassion towards "the just and the unjust" alike as is taught in the Sermon on the Mount. That is a higher way of life than a puritanical moralistic mentality which divides up the world into the good and the bad. A moralistic person is driven from within by fear and anger. A loving person heals, joins, restores - probably reflecting a higher degree of consciousness than a moralistic person who needs a "magic theological formula" to be "saved." People in both camps are on the same journey, however. Clearly, both the Buddha and Jesus attained a higher level of consciousness than 99.99% of us could tolerate at this stage of our development as a species. From that higher level of consciousness, both realized their oneness with the Divine Reality which IS all life and which is the Reality expressing Him/Herself in evolution. Both of them taught the parable of the prodigal son, although the stories reflect different cultural contexts. I think both of them are the "showers of the way" to us.

[@bowrudder899]

Robert Riley I think you should start a new faith called "pick-and-choose-ism". ;-) Jesus not only said that God causes the rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous (more a statement of his forbearance than a statement of the philosophy "I'm okay, you're okay"), the same Jesus in the same Sermon on the Mount said, "I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20) Those are Jesus' words. Same sermon. How you doing with that?

[@bbriley42]

bowrudder Yes, the Divine loves all his beings, but we still need to seek to follow the path of righteousness (unconditional compassion) in order to awaken and experience the joy found in the "Kingdom of Heaven" planted right within the hearts of every person who ever lived. And eventually, no matter how long it might take, perhaps over many lifetimes (?) since life is eternal), we'll all follow that inner path to the heart of Love and manifest it in our outer lives for the good of all. It has nothing to do with reward and punishment - instead, the pull of the Divine within our hearts will eventually triumph over egocentricity. It isn't the Divine Who is angry - it is instead narrow-minded, moralistic human beings. That was the difference IMHO between John the Baptist and Jesus, the latter urging us about those who conspired to kill him, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." I.e., any non-loving act comes from spiritual ignorance and NOT from "evil" beings.

[@markdaniels1730]

bowrudder Pick-and-choose-ism? More like "Understand-and-discern-ism". God has given you the gift of reason, use it.

[@bowrudder899]

Thanks, Stvdia Theologica. God has also given us his word. And the Holy Spirit.

[@markdaniels1730]

bowrudder Yes, and His Word says that He is Love (1 John 4:7-8). It also says that He is not cruel, for He "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked" (Ezekiel 18:23) and that "he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone" (Lamentations 3:33). Therefore whatever conclusion we come to, we cannot adopt a theology that would paint God as cruel or sadistic. I'm not saying to adopt universalism, but there are other options available. Work it out for yourself, but never fail to believe that God is חַנּ֣וּן וְרַח֔וּם ḥan-nūn wə-ra-ḥūm (gracious and compassionate) as the prophet Jonah said. He is "slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity". (Jonah 4:2)

[@waynehampson9569]

Sin all you want and totally ignore God all your life and expect to end up in heaven? I don't think so.

[@k0smon]

+Wayne Hampson There is justice in the afterlife. Forget the bible, most of it is wrong. There is a place for everyone in the afterlife. And there are some miserable conditions there for those who deserve it.

[@waynehampson9569]

+k0smon Most of the Bible is wrong? The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever." - Isaiah 40:8

[@k0smon]

+Wayne Hampson I have to admit it has endured. But it is wrong nevertheless. Especially about heaven. It does get it right about there being no marriage in heaven. As Ehrman says, it is a book full of contradiction, discrepancy and error.

[@Cool_kizzy]

I'm not a universalist, but if only the single best person who ever lived (save the Lord), makes it into the Kingdom they still wouldn't deserve to be there. When we sneer like the older brother at the undeserved grace given to the prodigal we may have lost sight of our own tremendous need and our completely underserved adoption. If God were to save all (I do not believe this is what Jesus or the apostles taught btw), but if He indeed did do such a thing- by what right could I feel disdain for the huddling in of orphans, when I was in much the same condition? Could it be that in such a case what I've really done is made an idol out of the "freedom" my brother enjoyed and resent him because deep down I believe he's "one-upped" me by getting to taste of the things of this world and yet still being received by God?

[@ScriptFlipr]

Who told you Isaiah 40:8 was talking about the Bible?

[@manfredman5075]

Noone saves souls but Jesus

[@frankieloccisano6848]

Reading all these comments and thinking to myself, "This God's followers are not the most loving people." Safe to say, I want nothing to do with this God.

[@YoshiBlad3]

I’m a Christian, and I don’t want anything to do with ‘that’ god, either.

[@SilverbackGeurrilla]

Platt is spot on! Universalism is so easy to dismantle. There isn't a single verse in scripture that supports it.

[@SilverbackGeurrilla]

***** Yes I would LOVE to hear your objective standards little bitch. Fire away!

[@SilverbackGeurrilla]

***** Actually your lack of an objective morality proves that your BULLSHIT isn't true or "proof" of anything. You gave a concrete stack of shit!

[@SilverbackGeurrilla]

***** Well since NONE of that bullshit you posted can account for human morality then I will file it away with Bigfoot and tin foil hat stories.

[@spiritof6986]

1 Timothy 4:10. I can continue if you wish.

[@SilverbackGeurrilla]

Steven Elias What does that verse prove?

[@RobJohnII]

Good point you made very true!. Thanks for your support brother. I'm always astounded too, that people can ignore all the very clear teachings in the bible that refute this awful heresy. It's like Satan has blinded their minds and though they masquerade as angels of light they are leading others astray with this deadly doctrine.

[@MelkiGeorge]

A lot of misinterpreted and I'll guided comments are written here, READ YOUR BIBLES BETTER DUDES

[@k0smon]

GBM/// So we can become more confused? Why do you think there are so many Christian denominations? Because there are so many ways to interpret the bible.

[@MelkiGeorge]

All denominations at their core believe in the same thing, it is the minor doctrines that differentiate them. Before writing such a comment truly look into the different denominations' beliefs. If you are talking about divorce or marriage people might interpret the bible in different ways, and they are absolutely right to do so. However, on the topic of salvation the bible is very clear, and most if not all denominations have the common view.

[@k0smon]

GBM/// Not quite. There are some denominations that do not believe in the Trinity. Some churches believe your salvation is by going thru some ritual every week. Some say believe in Jesus. Even the bible can't make up its own mind. It says 'faith', or 'faith plus works', or faith, works and baptism. There is really not much in the bible that is 'very clear'.

[@Vanessa-jy4ky]

Really? Do they? So you're basically saying that the Roman Catholic a church and the Eastern Orthodox Church have the same common view of salvation? I think you need to research a little more my friend...

[@carsonfball4]

@@MelkiGeorge >> However, on the topic of salvation the bible is very clear If it were clear, we wouldn't have some Christians believe in Atonement Theology (of various versions) and others believe in Universalism (of various types). There are verses in the Bible that support both. There are also verses that support Annihilationism.

[@MikeJunior94]

3:10 No, that would be selfish. It is our duty to show God's unending love and to have as many people realize this. It is our job to make this world a better place, to show love and to show God.

[@joshpeterson2451]

Our job is to make disciples while this world becomes worse and worse before we get taken away in the rapture, all the while bringing glory to the Father. That's our job in this world. Why do we make disciples? Because non-disciples go to hell. If they don't, you have made Jesus' Great Commission pointless. If you want to show love to someone, tell them the gospel.

[@MikeJunior94]

Josh Peterson Absurd. You make salvation a mechanical machine. There is nothing in it that should appeal to anyone. Btw, the rapture is a 150 year old invention, it would be unwise to believe in it.

[@YourIndoctrination]

Josh Peterson yea will the gospel has zero to do with a rapture or half of the things youve said. The Western heretical nonsense of Christianity Is why people are worse because of the damnable heresies that yall preach like eternal torment, original sins, and penal substitution all popularized by the West.

[@joshpeterson2451]

BecomingMike Just because the rapture is a new idea doesn't make it wrong. Salvation by grace alone through faith alone wasn't taught by the church for about a thousand years. Should we not believe that too? It's fairly new since Luther's time. If the rapture isn't going to happen, what do you do with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Matthew 24:36-41, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53? Those are just a few passages regarding the rapture.

[@joshpeterson2451]

YourIndoctrination Eternal torment is biblical. Revelation 19 and 20, Matthew 25, and Daniel 12 all contain passages about eternal torment. Not to mention Jesus Himself says that it would have been better if Judas had never been born. Why? That verse only makes sense if Judas is going to be especially tormented in hell forever. You better believe there is eternal torment, because if there isn't, there's no eternal life either. We know this because Daniel 12:2 and Matthew 25:46 use the exact same word to describe life and torment. If one's eternal, the other has to be eternal too. How on earth is original sin a heresy? The original sin committed by humanity was committed in Genesis 3 when Adam and Eve and the fruit of the three of the knowledge of good and evil. The original sin of all time was Satan trying to overthrow God, but that's probably not what you're referring to. Your last "heresy" is the scariest. Penal substitution is why Christians can be saved. Because Jesus died in the place of sinners and bore the full wrath of God that sinners deserve, we as humans can be saved. We can only be saved because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross, and it is by His grace that He offers salvation by faith and repentance. To deny that is unbiblical heresy.

[@jackshadow325]

2:50 "If we believe..." This is someone who really doesn't know a thing about universalism. It's fine if you want to reject universalism, but at least know what you're rejecting.

[@Eclectifying]

"I'm standing in northern India, home to about 600 million people, most of whom will go to hell forever when they die, but I'm too busy trying to convince Western Christians that there is a hell that I'm not doing anything about this horrid situation."

[@camilolancheros7409]

Have you seen his evangelism and social work in these nations?

[@dccisco9515]

@@camilolancheros7409 what I want to know is how he can say 99.5% of people are going to hell with a smile on his face. I am a Christian Universalist

[@sinistergrinch]

Wow it is heartbreaking to see how many people on here are disagreeing with Platt :( everyone wants to believe in a God of love, mercy, and grace, yet they forget that God is also a God of justice and wrath. If you actually read the Bible you’ll understand that there really is a heaven and there really is a hell, and people really are going to one place or another when they die. Without accepting Christ in your life and turning from your sins and denying yourself to follow God, you will not enter into the kingdom of God. You are being deceived to think that all you have to do is believe or even worse, that everyone on earth is saved. The Bible is so clear on this and yet people try to justify something that’s incorrect because it allows them to live however they want without truly being a follower of God. I️ pray that anyone with the mentality be shown their false beliefs and they have a change of heart.

[@Tommythecat007]

Grinch it's almost like you've never read the scriptures the Justice and The Wrath Of God have always been in accordance as a prerequisite necessary for God's mercy full stop. God always uses punishment and wrath in accordance with his love only. If god was to be just as you seem to understand Paul the Apostle would be in hell. Have you not read the scriptures God has handed all men over to disobedience that he may have mercy on them all. Please show me where it says some called Christian's ridiculous you are living in a selfish gospel and man-made theology not of God

[@nightflight83]

My own father was a man of love and mercy, yet also of justice and wrath. Yet his wrath was for my good, not to make me suffer. See?

[@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185]

A lot of people don't understand that all people deserve death and hell.

[@markdaniels1730]

"everyone wants to believe in a God of love, mercy, and grace, yet they forget that God is also a God of justice and wrath" Justice, true justice is restorative in nature. The Old Testament word for it in Hebrew is "tsedaka". This word means “the divine energy which accomplishes man’s salvation”. It is parallel and almost synonymous to the other Hebraic word, "hesed" which means “mercy”, “compassion”, “love”, and to the word, emeth which means “fidelity”, “truth”. There is no tension between TRUE JUSTICE and the Love and Mercy of God. God is not just, with the normal Western meaning of this word, but we see that His justice means His goodness and love.

[@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jgoltz37]

I love this guy! Glad i was told about him :)

[@sonnymustarseed7034]

How about 1 John 2:2 and 1 Timothy 4:9-11

[@cjhitz]

When Jesus uses the words "eternal" and "everlasting", there's no debate to how long that is...it's pretty clear

[@trique9776]

Amen! Trusting in Jesus as Lord God is the only way to salvation for eternity. I had a spiritual awakening from Jesus when I began trusting HIm to know this!!!

[@manfredman5075]

Some prople need this eternal "hell" as sort of a projection of their own vengeful unforgiving hearts. They need some divine payback which for sone reason they believe they won't receive but others will

[@TyehimbaJahsi]

Question: Does the phrase "They don't have Christ" automatically mean that Christ doesn't have THEM? Where in the Bible does it teach that either the stubborn, rebellious will of Man, or the lack of faith on Man's part, can nullify, or bring to nothing, the OWNERSHIP of Christ over ALL things?

[@Bereanborn]

For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Believing in Christ AS God is essential. FEW find it...means MOST will not find it. Because you cannot earn the price paid for you, you must receive it by faith Most accept other religions because they satisfy themselves by working for their salvation... This does not please God. Without faith... It is impossible to please God. My people perish for lack of knowledge.

[@TheMorning_Son]

+Bereanborn same thing as Christianity the only difference is a bait and switch..many say believe in the Lord jesus christ and tho shall be saved and thy house hold..but then after someone converts its all works based do this and that or your on a slippery slope to hell..lol..thats why only by christs own faith does anyone have salvation

[@Bereanborn]

Salvation and works are very different. Your salvation is by Faith alone in Christ the ONLY eternal Son of God. Works are how YOU live AS a Christian... and are rewarded depending on the motive that they have been done. If you do any work for gain... it will be consumed by fire as wood hay and stubble... if they are done because you are motivated in your heart by love... a reward will remain.. thats why we are told to pursue Gods love... not earthly natural love... There is nothing you can do to earn your soul.. the narrow gate most miss the entry... and follow the broad path. Just saying you are a Christian does not mean you are one. True Christians produce Fruit... Galatians.

[@TheMorning_Son]

Bereanborn faith alone in christ is questionable since anyone can claim faith alone unless they demonstrate actual faith in Christ..which is why i believe no one actually believes in faith alone

[@TheMorning_Son]

Bereanborn its really not about truw christians but who is christ like..anyone can practice the way..

[@Tommythecat007]

So Jesus is sent to save us from God. David sorry mate pull the other leg it plays Jingle Bells

[@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185]

No Jesus is God in the flesh. God is a spirit he manifested himself in the for of a man Jesus Christ and came to earth left a Holy kingdom to come to earth and took the punishment that all mankind deserves that means you. God paid for mine and your sin. Please take the olive branch of peace God is offering you. Their is no other God that offers what he offers. He served you first. He loved you first.

[@Boxerr54]

Hilarious. He challenges with "If we believe Peter, Jesus" etc. We don't even have a real history that would declare what these Bible characters would have said. If you want to believe in some vain God who is so intent upon us worshipping a specific character created by the gospel writers generations after any real person the character was built upon that he would send us to Hell if we don't "get it", then have your vain little god. I choose instead to honor a great God of the whole World and the whole universe. Rob Bell chooses to worship a great God who loves everyone.

[@grafxgrl8030]

I believe a la what the Bible says. God spoke to me out loud twice and said “the only thing that’s true about you is what I say in my word. Everything else is a lie.” He also makes himself know to others as needed, including people in India. He said all creation declares Him, and that everyone knows He exists. It’s whether we reject Him or accept Him that makes the difference.

[@joelsalminen1357]

God's love is greater than our choices. You don't let your child play in the traffic but rather limit their freedom until they choose better. Why would God's grace become incapable of refemption after death? Is God not beyond the border called death?

[@grafxgrl8030]

@@joelsalminen1357 hi. I’m not sure what you’re saying but it must be in response to my post. Tell me more.

[@joelsalminen1357]

@@grafxgrl8030 yes, i happened to see this video and most of the comments were many years old but i saw your comment which was the only recent one so i commented on it. My view just was that even when we reject God we are not lost. I believe it might take longer to find Paradise but i personally believe God is beyond any dogma, faith, belief, tradition, religion or lifestyle and never lets us get totally lost. Just my view, i don't represent the Bible.

[@grafxgrl8030]

@@joelsalminen1357 I understand what you’re saying now. I appreciate your honesty. I don’t know what my perspective would be at this point in my life had I not had a couple of supernatural experiences with God in the last 30 years. Prior to that I was just trying to find something to make my life work. It wasn’t working very well. 25 years ago God showed me two versions in response to questions I had asked him hypothetically - theoretically, out loud but never expecting to get an answer. There in about 15 years ago he spoke to me out loud twice in the same week when he said “The only thing that’s true about you as what I say in my Word. Everything else is a lie.” That was a game changer for me. I no longer have to look anywhere else for answers because I find everything that I need in his Word. If you are open to it even the slightest, I would encourage you to ask him to speak to you through the Bible, read it with an open mind, you might start in the book of John in the New Testament because he writes a very clear explanation or story about the love of God for us all. I would agree with you that he loves everyone which I believe is essentially what you’re saying, but he will let us choose our own path completely into turn away from him if we desire. He will not continue to pursue us in definitely. We make our own choice about where we spend eternity - heaven or hell. That’s all I really have to share. All the best to you.

[@joelsalminen1357]

@@grafxgrl8030 hi, I have read the Bible extensively, of course including the Gospel of John. I find inspirations in the Bible but consider it to be a one spiritual book amongst many. Not an authority but rather a reference to what a group of messianic jews 2000 years ago believed in and what was their approach to God. To me Jesus is a valid and True path to God for those believers who feel inclined to that path but certainly not the only way to God as classical christianity has interpreted the sayings of Jesus. I am very very glad to hear you have found peace in Christ. But i believe God seeks us with the tradition that suits us individually. God made us unique and i see no reason why would God want to then assume all of us unique individuals to find God through the same path.

[@wgacaguy6488]

There’s a third possibility, David, that being that the saved in Christ join Him in paradise for eternity, and the others simply cease to exist. John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that whoever believes in Him shall not PERISH…. There are increasingly more Christian theologians and thought leaders embracing this idea, and plenty of verses that may support it. I’m not 100% convinced yet, but it does seem to better fit the character of our loving God than thinking He would allow so many to experience eternal conscious torment. One good book is Hell, A Final Word by Edward Fudge.

[@SwordofManticorE]

Here is a little secret they don't tell you about Universal salvation. It is the only Gospel that gives God all the glory.

[@chriscox9143]

Right on..

[@adrianglory8083]

No

[@SwordofManticorE]

Another hellion arrives.

[@SwordofManticorE]

+Ryan 35411 Revelation 21:8? Are you claiming to fully understand the spiritual symbolic book of Revelation?

[@SwordofManticorE]

+Ryan 35411 then don't post verses you have no clue to what they mean. Learn how to read scripture.

[@ek256]

What if..... A Hindu stood in front of your church on video and talked down about your religion as propaganda for Hinduism.

[@bennyjones1502]

Ed Klopfenstein I would consider them wrong but it would make sense if they really believed in Hinduism then they would believe it wholeheartedly and do all they can to make these things known.

[@hi2cole]

Ed Klopfenstein I would allow them to because that's their choice, but I would also be saddened at their blindness.

[@BoriPR82]

Ed Klopfenstein people do it all the time

[@bnythecoolguy6296]

hi2cole hi2cole saddened by their blindness? What’s sad is that had you grown up in a Muslim nation I’m sure you would be saying the exact same thing about how Islam is the only truth. But I think you’d be wrong, and I think you’re wrong now, but I don’t know, no one does, including you. Your beliefs are your business and you have every right to have them. Though it’s very Christian of you to “allow them” to believe/stand in front of a Christian church. It does seem strange that you never hear of Buddhists going around telling others that their way is the absolute truth. I am sickened by the arrogance of this guy that is standing there filming a video to remind other Christians that these people are going to hell. I mean think about that. To be honest I think a lot of Christians like to hear shit like this; it makes them feel special, unique, they have the “right answer”. And without these “heathens” they would be just like the rest of humanity. People say faith is hard, but I think what’s truly hard is to constantly challenge oneself for truth without staying stagnant or comfortable. To be humbled by the possibility that no one exists on purpose, belongs anywhere, and will all die. What’s the point to living then, is what most would likely say. But are we that self centered and insecure that we need to be so special to exist? If everyone is special than no one is special, so there need to be non believers and sinners for there to be saints. Evil for good to exist, darkness for light. Religion is man made-that’s a fact. Humans have been worshipping all sorts of gods from the sun, to statues, people, all the way to the ‘one true god’. Is it possible that man needed to create the idea of god to find meaning for life? Yes, it’s possible. Maybe the idea of god is what makes god real. Scripture says god is love as well as in each and every one of us. What if we are getting so hung up on literal interpretation and ideology that we are missing something so much more beautiful? It’s also possible that I’m completely wrong and that even though I consider myself a Christian, I probably wouldn’t be by mainstream standards. So maybe I will burn in hell for eternity when I die. But if that’s the kind of god that exists I want nothing to do with the being. Love is what I believe in, and I feel more spiritually awake than I ever have been-but that’s just what works for me and would never expect (nor want, unless it just so happens to truly work for that person) EVERYONE to see, believe, worship my way. Just like what you believe seems to be working for you, and that’s great. But when someone views another as “blind” because they don’t share the same interpretation of something we don’t even know exists, THAT makes me sad for their blindness.

[@siphondhlovu1153]

hi2cole Sadly to him you also blind. Dont forget we all believe to extent of our convictions.

[@Eclectifying]

Thank you for not calling universalists heretics!

[@evamaria7747]

What would Christians think about an earthly father who has built a torture chamber in his basement in which he mercilessly tortures his unruly children in the most terrible way...forever and ever.....while his "good" children are allowed to live with him in his house....supposedly trusting, revering, and loving him deeply ???? Wouldn't such a father (quite rightly) be called a sadistic psychopath by everyone ??? So, why should our Heavenly Father be like that? Please explain that to me.

[@troywright359]

Well don't we suffer here on earth also? What loving father wouldn't create a happy place where nobody hurt anybody else or did anything wrong ever? What father would allow others to ever feel pain in this lifetime? Comparing God directly with human fathers on a 1:1 scale doesn't work.

[@jmalko9152]

if God wants to save everyone -- can he do it?

[@happynow01]

that is the difference... truth, not man made ideas and visions... we try our best to follow truth and that is the truth of God's word.. I pray you give it a read and a open heart to see what we found... God bless u all!

[@xxSHIROSxxSUBxx]

~smiles softly~ we could go back and forth from now till our last breaths using the Bible as an instrument of supporting an argument. The point is you can draw more flies to honey than to salt. Which are you? Regardless, you are loved and I love you. Peace be with you.

[@lyleparker3584]

out of the heart the mouth speaks...if you think that "universalism" gives you a good excuse to be lazy, then you really don't care about people. I am not really sure where I stand on this issue, however, to use that argument says that in your current belief, you are only evangelizing to save people from eternal torment. What about people's needs now? Where they are living? The torment they are experiencing right now? Do you believe that a relationship with Jesus is able to solve those issues?

[@EXALTEDDIRT]

Thanks David....Oh Lord help us! God move in us! Reprove us! Guide us! lead us! We cannot do anything apart from you....let us seek and save those who are lost by the power of the Holy Spirit that is in us; in Jesus' name..........Amen.

[@TheJontydavid]

The idea that universalism makes people complacent is baffling to me , it makes me want to shout gods love from the roof tops, telling people that their parents and family whom don't believe will be eternally tormented and tortured, writhing like worms whom will never die in a fire that is eternal is really painful. It's the single biggest hurdle for me as a Christian.. if the idea everyone being saved , true or not makes you more Luke warm. Maybe you're too attached to your own righteousness.

[@Eclectifying]

Read the words of Paul in Romans. Notice Paul never warns of eternal hell fire. In fact, he talks of the salvation of all. And just because there is a lot of history behind a doctrine doesn't make it true. It does, however, make you think long and hard, and do your homework, before taking a stand against it. Which is what many people have done, and have come to the conclusion that the "orthodox" position on hell is wrong.

[@zacjones8895]

I can't imagine a "loving, personal god" that would allow different religions to arise around the globe only to say, "Okay, now, only the ideology that spread because of the Romans and then the Europeans, mostly through violence, is the one that allows humans to enjoy eternity with me." Can someone enlighten to me as to why I should believe in such a god?

[@unmeritedfavor918]

I can give you a very short answer. If you want to know more please read the Gospels. In order for God to make peace on earth a reality for the people who have chosen righteousness, he must destroy those people who insist on doing evil, and refuse His grace. Judgment day will accomplish that. As long as there are murderers walking around no one will be safe. God cannot make a murderer want to stop. The murderer has freedom of choice to continue his evil ways or repent and accept God's forgiveness.

[@UniversalismProven]

Do I need to put my trust in Adam to be born in Adam? Do I need to believe in Adam or follow Adam?

[@mrslittlefish]

I totally agree. To know in your heart that God really does love everyone and has shown us how much through Jesus is amazing! I agree with Mr Platt when he says how you see God defines how you live your life. I want to share the gospel and help build the kingdom because I love people in their lives NOW. If evangelising is all about fire insurance is that really love?

[@benshapiroisgay]

Yes David, YES! It is by grace through faith that we are saved. If any of us have, with the right motives, read the bible we will see that what David is saying is true. David i am with you to the end in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior, by which we have received eternal life and forgiveness of sins. Blessings, Peace, Strength and Encouragement to you brother as you expand His kingdom for His glory.

[@Mclark593]

God bless you brother. Keep strong in the faith. Hebrews 10:25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near.

[@DylanWOWilliams]

Praise God that we have an authority given to us to make a change! The Lord has given us the power to fight the enemy and to not be deterred by Satan! We can intercede and take action! We can win this world for Christ!

[@oneskepticalguy781]

From Wiki with references: "The picture of Gehenna as the place of punishment or destruction of the wicked occurs frequently in the Mishnah in Kiddushin 4.14, Avot 1.5; 5.19, 20, Tosefta t. Bereshith 6.15, and Babylonian Talmud b.Rosh Hashanah 16b:7a; b. Bereshith 28b. Gehenna is considered a Purgatory-like place where the wicked go to suffer until they have atoned for their sins. It is stated that the maximum amount of time a sinner can spend in Gehenna is one year," Your "Fire" is purifying!

[@Eclectifying]

Exactly. It is God's kindness that leads to repentance. Love wins. It's too bad sometimes those arguing for Love winning are not showing love.

[@artbyrobot1]

Well its also Godly sorrow that leads to repentance. Maybe God's kindness leads to Godly sorrow but so can just seeing the wickedness of your own walk.

[@sonnymustarseed7034]

Most so called Christian's hate Love Wins ;)

[@pastormarkm]

I'm curious where you heard that Kolasis means discipline? Every resource I look at says that it mean punishment or severe punishment. Its roots are to lop-off, to maime, to disfigure and its usage in Matthew 25:46, according to Louw-Nida "To punish with the implication of resulting severe suffering."

[@GregS4Jesus]

Up until the 6th century most of the Christian teachers and leaders taught all would be reconciled eventually, they called it "Apokatastasis" greek for "restoration". Gregory of Nyssa taught this, and he is the one who added " and the life of the world to come" at the end of the Nicene creed. Nothing about eternal torment in any of the early church creeds at all, because many taught eventual restoration through the shed blood of Jesus, the "Savior of the world", "behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world" the Savior of all men, especially those who believe.

[@dannytibi]

OK, it sounds a bit clearer now. You do accept that God loves everyone, and has the power to save everyone. Would it be accurate to say that you reconcile that by thinking that after the death of the individual God's love for that person ceases? Or do you think that after death the still unredeemed person becomes incapable of repenting?

[@oneskepticalguy781]

"because claiming men can be saved without Christ contradicts most other passages" Yes, you are right! "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". John 14:6 But have you really studied on Heb 9:27? Is it possible that it does not have to do with getting only one chance?

[@dannytibi]

"Also, I was talking with a different person then, you quoted me from a conversation I had with him" Why do you keep bringing this up? This is an open forum on the internet, you made a statement I found questionable and I decided to engage you in a conversation about it, what`s the problem?

[@Eclectifying]

"...If I said, "age (singular) of the ages (plural)," I mean throughout all the generations of. If I said, "age (singular) of the age (singular)," I also mean for ever and ever. In addition, if I used the word age in the plural form, ages it means more than one age. If I used it as an adjective, I would mean eternity. It should be clear to anyone reading this, that we would have a very difficult time communicating with each other if I used the word age in the manner I just described..."

[@oneskepticalguy781]

(Cont) Hasting’s Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, ) "Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the .noun aion (p. 370):

[@denissutherland3653]

Philippians 3 : 19 " Their end is destruction : their god is their belly : that in which they glory is their shame.Men whose whole minds are earthbound."

[@johns294]

I can assure you that the Hindus in India aren’t going to embrace the Bible just like you wouldn’t embrace Ganesha. Think about it , if I was a Hindu and you gave me a bible to read and I opened it up and read a dialog about God getting angry, drowning the entire world , telling Abraham to sacrifice his son and then overseeing the plagues to include the killing of newborn sons I would be literally horrified . That’s just one quick reason that there are so few Hindu or Buddhist converts to Christianity.

[@Eclectifying]

pastormarkm, Did you read this in chapter 2? - " He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." And in chapter 4: 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.; 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." Beautiful!

[@dannytibi]

Yes, but that begs the question, if God loves the people who fail to receive the message of the Gospel so much, why would he leave it up to our fallible hands only?

[@dannytibi]

"Another perspective is that the sheep wander off astray volunatarely", I don't know if you are a parent, but if you are not then imagine you have children, and you tell them not to play far from home because they might get kidnapped. Now imagine they disobey you, and they end up getting kidnapped. Is your main thought going to be "I'm going to get my children back at all costs!" or "Oh well, I warned them, it's their fault, I don't care"?

[@cjhitz]

Please refer to all of my references & arguments above. I listed scripture after scripture that confirms heaven/hell & eternal life/death is spoken of. Namely, we can't ignore the words of Jesus in John 3:36 and Matthew 25. You have to really be twisting scripture to dismiss those passages

[@Eclectifying]

Ok, let's make this clear: Matt. 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal (aiōnion) punishment (kolasin), but the righteous to eternal (aiōnion) life." 1 Cor. 2:7 "No, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time (aiōnion) began." Tell me, which is the correct translation of the Greek word? Matt. 28:20 "...to the very end of the age (aiōnios - noun form of aiōnion)." So, if this means eternity, how can it end?

[@OperationReapSinners777]

Sinners will PERISH! Please take HEED of these verses! Num 21:6-9 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Jhn 3:14-21 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to CONDEMN the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not CONDEMNED: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the CONDEMNATION, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. 1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 2Co 2:15-17 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that PERISH: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that PERISH; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Holy Bible Jesus the word made flesh and dwelt among us.

[@droptozro]

What the person who told you that may have mis-understood, is that there's been more of a resurgence of pre-millenialism in combatance to the calvinist(and church of christ) amillenial position. It may have *seemed* to be only in the last 200 years, because the writings of the earliest church were made more easily available only in the last couple centuries and it's clear to see they held it as a majority. If you'd like quotes, I can prove it contextually--but I'd rather you read yourself.

[@cowlitzchristian592]

If, God wants us to follow the version of Christianity which includes eternal torment, He would do a better job of getting people saved in this life! Spreading the gospel might get us more rewards in Heaven, but it won't do them any good if they don't receive it in this life if the eternal torment view is true. I don't go along with the free will excuse! I believe in the existence of age-during punishment for the unrepentant followed by the salvation of all. This is what many ancient Christians believed. I believe that God is more powerful and more loving than man's free will. I Timothy 4:10 reads, "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

[@swimmerfish34]

like I said, check the end of Revelation, 2 Thess 1: 5-9, and the Parable of the rich man and Lazerus, also, if everyone is saved, what is the purpose of missions? Did people who spend their whole lives in the mission field waste it? How do you explain the wide and narrow gates?

[@WhisperInTheWeeds]

1 Timothy 4:10 Last time I checked, all, means ALL... It is ALSO written: 1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV) 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living GOD, who IS the SAVIOR OF ALL PEOPLE, and especially of those who believe. I did not write this... it's in the Bible, along with a whole lot of other "All" passages. Reread the Bible as if God meant ALL, and you will be very surprised at what you will see.

[@oneskepticalguy781]

Exactly! If there is no hell, then where are they going to send all these people not like them? My question is, which of these groups mentioned in Revelations 5:13 are destined for this hell? 13 "Then I heard EVERY creature in HEAVEN and on EARTH and UNDER the EARTH and on the SEA, and ALL THAT WAS IN THEM, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” "no one can say"Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit"(1Cor. 12:3)

[@cjhitz]

Matthew 10:28 - "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

[@BoyKagome]

Is he making "All things new." or just "Some things new." Is the Greek exclusionary? Will he wipe away "all tears" or "some tears." will every knee bow, or only some knees bow?

[@theresnohell3144]

I don't care what Platt believes. God is both willing and able to have all mankind "saved". That alone is enough for Him to accomplish this.

[@theresnohell3144]

@The Lighthouse it's you who doesn't believe nor are you able to fathom the extent of the Gospel. So I guess you'll be disappointed/jealous as the big brother was of the prodigal son.

[@theresnohell3144]

@The Lighthouse I think you're a spiritually bankrupt idiot.

[@marke.anderson1072]

Sorry, my bible doesn't state that at all. Matt 25 says NOTHING about belief. It does have Jesus say "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you...For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat..." He talks about the eternal fire - for those who don't take care of "the least of these" - but nowhere does it say the soul lives on in eternal torment. Does a loving Jesus/God REALLY send fo

[@Mclark593]

Sir, its late. I really enjoyed this conversation. I realize nothing I say to you will change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit will do that. I live for Christ now for what He did for me on the Cross. He has redeemed me. I want to tell people the good news of Jesus Christ. You are the one with Universilistic view that nobody needs to accept Jesus. I will pray for you. No hard feelings these conversations are good. God bless you . I know you will respond. But I will not come back.

[@fourteenten6170]

What scriptures specifically and CLEARLY tell of a God who (in all interpretations and translations) will absolutely send people to a "hell" ("hell" according to traditional guilt/works-driven churches and leaders) based on speaking a few words while they are alive on this earth? And moreover, what scripture(s) specifically tell how that salvation is "EARNED" and "MAINTAINED?" I really hope to get an answer from Platt on this one.

[@dannytibi]

It's not diversion, it's genuine concern, even if I were to submit to your Gospel of Fear, out of concern for my own personal salvation, my soul would still never be at peace if even one soul was left unredeemed. True salvation, true peace is impossible for me if what you believed were true. You say you believe God reveals himself to everyone... does that mean you believe he reveals saving knowledge about Christ to everyone? If that is the case why is evangelism urgent, or even needed at all?

[@dannytibi]

I have seen that video before, but thanks anyway. I think Tim Keller does make some good points in that video. In essence he is saying the same thing that C.S. Lewis said "the gates of Hell are shut from the inside". I absolutely agree with that... I just think that if we are to be consistent, we must allow for the possibility that those who find themselves there may one day choose to open it, and that when they do, the Father will run to meet his prodigal sons with open arms.

[@artbyrobot1]

Yup. And who would consider that they'd not begin to doubt their own pride and rebellion with a billion years to ponder their mistakes? Is anyone that stubborn to cling to rebellion for that long with no vices to enjoy and distract them? If they are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, wouldn't their resolve to continue suppressing the truth fade eventually? How much resolve to suppress can one maintain while suffering and having no pleasures to take their mind off of the facts?