Is Karma Police in E minor or A minor?

Usually, the key that a piece of music is in is fairly obvious and uncontroversial. However, the key of Radiohead's "Karma Police" is the subject of regular debate. How is it possible that different listeners can hear the same piece of music in different keys?
Check out Listening In's brand new video on how Jonny Greenwood is inspired by Penderecki: • How Jonny Greenwood wa...
SOURCES:
Discussion of Karma Police’s key on Reddit:
/ can_someone_help_me_un...
/ key_of_karma_police_by...
/ can_someone_explain_ho...
Capuzzo, G, Sectional Tonality and Sectional Centricity in Rock Music: libres.uncg.ed...
Conniff, T, Creative Harmonization - Radiohead’s ‘Karma Police’: tonyconniff.co...
Stream my new EP "The Longest March" at Spotify: open.spotify.c...
or download it at Bandcamp: davidbennettpi...
An extra special thanks goes to Vidad Flowers, Jon Dye, Austin Russell, Christopher Ryan, Toot & Paul Peijzel, the channel’s Patreon saints! 😇
SUPPORT ME ON PATREON: / davidbennettpiano

[@DavidBennettPiano]

This video was made in collaboration with *Listening* *In* 😃 Do check out their new video on how Jonny Greenwood was influenced by Penderecki: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5TMk3SCaNucmbs 🎼 Thanks!

[@bernardthedisappointedowl6938]

It's clearly in the key of jazz - great video as ever, ^oo^

[@waterglas21]

Please David could you do a video doing an analisys Animal Collective In the Flowers? I dont understand what key is on. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIqocpmieLRne9E

[@anshulanilgaur8365]

Sexy Sadie and Karma Police are similar right?

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Anshul Anil Gaur the chord progression from Karma Police’s chorus is the same as the progression from Sexy Sadie 😃

[@anshulanilgaur1118]

@@DavidBennettPiano thanks for clarifying, I always thought that they sounded similar, since I don't have any music theory knowledge I didn't know what was the main reason why the songs were similar, right now I am trying to learn the basics of music theory so that I can understand better. :)

[@pablodavidclavijo4609]

Maybe the real key were the friends we made along the way

[@pedroteran5885]

Amazing.

[@TheKozzee]

Kingdom hearts be like

[@andrewberthelsen2817]

I literally laughed out loud

[@arturoapu12]

Have my like, good man, you deserve it.

[@adrin181]

I'm glad this comment exists

[@PianoVampire]

How to confuse your bandmates - tell them this one is in Em, then start in Am.

[@TheTrueAltoClef]

Or play it in Ebm, and just say you're playing in Em

[@Patrick96322]

@@TheTrueAltoClef that would be extra extra spicy ! LOL

[@euanmangan7760]

@@Patrick96322 remember kids you're not out of key you're just playing jaxz

[@Dweezil1996]

Lol says person who thinks song keys are synonymous with what chord you start on.

[@PianoVampire]

@@Dweezil1996 It's a joke dude

[@chimleypot]

I learned most of the guitar chords I know from this song because it has all of them

[@Vickyeverythingelsewastaken]

Same. It's my go-to to impress people. I still mess up the outro every now and then. Screw barrés.

[@ferouihamza]

same but for present tense

[@brendanhod]

In ‘Just’ they literally were trying to use as many chords as possible in one composition. It’s amazing how great that song is, given such a ridiculous premise!

[@zesla.]

Barres have just became simpler after learning this song.

[@steveinnes6350]

Fact 👍

[@willzay1954]

Radiohead: *Exists* David Bennet Piano: It’s free real estate

[@oscarh5439]

More like depressed people

[@marshallgrey2159]

more like Radiohead: Exists Music theory channels in generel: It’s free real estate

[@LisaSmith-yb2uz]

😂

[@kevin_dasilva]

don't forget about Los Beatles

[@schwuischwui]

Now this thread is top grammar

[@dspserpico]

Karma Police is the “that dress” of 90’s music. I can’t unhear this.

[@Tyranitar66501]

It's like Sweet Home Alabama to me.

[@FaMinore]

"Karma police arrest this man, he talks in modes..." To me E minor feels more comfortable. Although the song itself is not meant to feel "comfortable", so I'm probably wrong 😂

[@Patrick96322]

I agree with you ! And 'modes' is a little like music 'math'...

[@AndyMangele]

LOL

[@Brindlebrother]

there is no wrong. because there is no right. it's all left.

[@robster7316]

Agree, and the ambiguity of the key contributes to that feeling of discomfort.

[@ListeningIn]

This is such a fascinating video - thank you so much for collaborating with me! I keep going back to Karma Police to see what key I feel it's in, and it does change every time. Sometimes it's A dorian, sometimes E minor. I think it depends on your mood... Needless to say, Radiohead are one of the biggest gifts to music.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

It was pleasure working with you! Any excuse to listen to Radiohead is a good excuse!

[@itdc2219]

im starting to think david likes radiohead...

[@DavidBennettPiano]

My relationship with Radiohead and The Beatles is actually purely academic... in my free time I tend to listen to Rebecca Black and Gangham Style

[@anarchocommie4743]

@@DavidBennettPianoomg I love this comment

[@mellowfellow6816]

@@DavidBennettPiano I see you are a man of culture as well

[@talkstotheanimals]

@@DavidBennettPiano 😂

[@morgrim.aeternum]

@@DavidBennettPiano Ah yes, the style of Gang Ham

[@AngelicusImmortus]

“My favourite thing about folk reviewing any Radiohead song is... they never actually ask us what key a song is in, or what it’s actually about, you know that stuff we know for a fact” Jonny Greenwood.

[@ThinWhiteAxe]

_Do_ they know for a fact what key this song is in? Now I seriously wonder what their answer would be.

[@vixo551]

I mean, they made every arrangement in the song. At least they have to have some sort of knowledge of the key of their own song​@@ThinWhiteAxe

[@andycrowley]

I need to do a song tutorial for this, so thanks for the reminder - wicked video! I always thought it was in G personally 🤷‍♂️ 🙃

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Cheers Andy! I hope you're well 😁

[@manuam98]

I would say that the verses are mostly on A Dorian, which are the same notes as G mayor so you're not entirely wrong

[@MatiuPirihimana]

I don't thing he's even slightly wrong. I certainly think it's in G. Big ii-V to start out before resolving with an interrupted cadence then the tonic which matched the chorus. Simple.

[@JesseNorellMusic]

It does kind of feel like the song finds home on the 4th chord of the verse. And obviously G is the key I first think of as "the key with one sharp in it - F#." That being said, if someone asked me if this song was in a major or minor key, my knee jerk reaction would be minor.

[@bminturn]

I'm not an expert, but it seems that you are correct. You can start a verse on the minor 2nd, or on the minor 6th, or a chorus on the 4th, or an outro on the minor 3rd, and it's still in G. The F# makes more sense as well. It's just a 7th thrown in for flavor. Or at least, that's not an incorrect way of looking at it. It could also be Am. I'm not getting Em out of it at all. And I steer away from Am because I just don't see someone deciding to do the outro based on the 2 (dim) chord. But that's just me not being an expert.

[@marshallgrey2159]

4:35 ka-a-rma po-lice *JEEZ*

[@N4m43]

I laughing so much right now... XD

[@mrflibble1259]

C H E E S E

[@parkpatt]

lmao I didn't even notice this I was listening so hard to the note itself xD

[@liadshirav9381]

I had to find a comment talking about thisss ty

[@Supernautiloid]

Every cheese in its right place.

[@leejk3926]

"If you've got this far you must be a Radiohead fan" You're goddamn right

[@joermnyc]

Simple, it’s in the key of Radiohead.

[@jamwithmates123]

4:35 "Karma Police...... cheese"

[@ramouloo4]

Still better than ‘penatration’ in 2+2=5 XD

[@ale14zoppi]

@@ramouloo4 wait isn't it "power rangers"?

[@LUFC-yl2cd]

you beat me too it lol

[@ramouloo4]

@@ale14zoppi LMAO

[@croatoansounds]

I love when you added the A note and Thom sings “jeez”

[@makemessy]

Radiohead discovered the key off H

[@xvbnihfuilnllpjgxnjitgvbsy]

i didn't know they were german 🧐

[@Krixwell]

Fun fact: When musical notation and note names came to some countries, including my own Norway, the B was supposedly misread as H, which stuck. To this day, Norwegians learn the C major scale as "C, D, E, F, G, A, H, C".

[@makemessy]

@@xvbnihfuilnllpjgxnjitgvbsy dude that's awesome, I didn't know that! Maybe I'll use it as well to celebrate my German/Norwegian heritage!

[@georgemcauley9819]

I think the music is written in E Aeolian/Phrygian but here's the TWIST: the vocal melody is written in C MAJOR. The C feels like the melodic centre of the vocals to me with a lot of the notes pulling from or to the C. That's why the first Em chord makes us anticipate a homeliness because the subdominant of the C major (b) in the vocal melody that it coincides with is telling us to expect a C. Instead of getting the C we expect we get an E (major third) which adds brightness and therefore emphasis to the 'arrest' lyric. Then we get the C on the word 'man' which is the resolution we had anticipated. This is why I think the song has such a bittersweet and fluid feeling. It's more-so an interaction between a minor mode and a major mode. Also viewing the verse as being in E Aeolian/Phrygian makes it a logical step that the chorus would be in it's relative major (G major). Forgot to mention the coda. It's in G Lydian. The vocals move between A Aeolian, A Ionian and A Dorian.

[@harrywood6502]

It's clearly using whatever the key of a buzzing fridge or detuned radio is

[@celestindupilon2773]

It's in fridge-ian of course...

[@finalscore2983]

@@celestindupilon2773 arrest this man

[@hudgynsasdarl6967]

@@finalscore2983 he talks in maths

[@iantaakalla8180]

And we have crashed this comments’ party...

[@matthewstreacker7402]

Thom Yorke is such a genius, so glad I got to live in the same time. Wish more people would experiment with keys.

[@Anerisian]

I think most people have a “bias” towards major or natural minor, and are less aware or familiar with the other modes. A dorian is also a minor mode, but people expect the d minor in there, and are maybe thrown off by the D/F#, and perhaps that’s what make it seem e minor then. (A dorian camp here). Note, that this fits also the “stark” F# (8:43) would just be A dorian, too - or so how I hear it.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

I agree that people being less familiar with the possibility of modes might make them assume it’s in a key that it’s not. Although, the F# chord at 8:43 wouldn’t actually fit in A dorian as it contains an A# and C# too

[@tonicogsf]

@@DavidBennettPiano exactly... maybe the F# could be seen like a secondary dominant to the 3rd degree (Bm), that just don’t resolve. But also as chromatic chord.. to be honest I don’t think it even makes a difference

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Antonio Sandoval Filho to be honest, I think secondary dominants are chromatic chords (i.e. a chord that is non-diatonic) 🙂

[@tonicogsf]

@@DavidBennettPiano haha yes, I agree =]. What I meant is that F# has a strong relation with one of the degrees of the scale, while a chord like C#maj7 has a weaker connection with the key (even though if we switch to C#7, it also sounds good, since it’s a subV/IV and at this point there’s no melody, so I guess there’s a bunch of chords that actually can sound fit to this part)

[@brentnoury7626]

I would describe the piece as in a Modal G Major. Am Em & Bm are all in G Major, which is the Chorus. The Chorus of this song feels like home base to me. Where the song comes back in and Comfortable. If I were teaching this song to bandmates, I would teach it as G. In my mind, that feels like the strongest structure. A breakaway first with Dorian, then a sense of Relative Minor, to Home, and finally a jump to the 3rd of G (Bm) and modal interplay.

[@calebangell77]

When the A was being played over it it seemed to want to drop down to G# for some reason. E sounded more resolved to me.

[@mickeyrube6623]

The whole "holding a note over the chords" thing is bizarre way to find the key to me. Take a C major chord progression that goes C-Em...or one that goes C-G...Many songs start off like that. If you hold C over them, it will sound bitter right away (after the C major chord, obviously). The note that sounds best over all the chords in a key is the 6th note of the key, followed by the 2nd. Imagine, you play a D over a C major chord progression, and it sounds good. So you assume it's in D major or minor!

[@sonicthehedgegod]

“usually what key something is in is a relatively easy questions to answer, but sometimes it’s not as clear cut” *Kate Bush Wuthering Heights has entered the chat*

[@IvanAtThe555]

Because of the strength of the Em walking up to the G chord in the verse and then switching up to G in the chorus, I've always felt it was Em. Never actually thought about it before now though!

[@-l5905]

Thank you. Loved the cover at the end. Looking forword to the next Radiohead vid.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thanks!

[@S21853]

0:29 I think it's more like a bridge than a chorus. The structure is similar to Fake Plastic Trees.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

🍅 🍅

[@shambhav9534]

But, "When you mess with us," does sound like the chorus, so I guess the rest of it is the pre-chorus.

[@jessevandendoren]

I understand everything what you are saying rationally, but I feel this song so strongly as being in Am key that it's hard to imagine other people feel it differently! So interesting

[@SAMTELLIS4]

This is my favorite song by Radiohead, and I appreciate the analysis. Verse definitely seems A Dorian with the vocals refusing to touch F or F# and that gives it the uncertainty or transient feel that's it's neither here nor there, maybe somewhere in between. I'd really say that alone explains why this song always makes me feel so lost, in terms of music alone, or vibe in general. The bridge then goes on to say he thought he lost himself, so was able to exert that feeling to me musically, then explain it. Certainly a progressive masterpiece.

[@EpifanesEuergetes]

First time in my life I finished watching the patreon list. Well played, sir.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

😃😃

[@Escobar1519]

Gorgeous video, David

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you 😃😃

[@bwonderlandj]

So glad I found your channel! This type of content is priceless.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you!

[@daniellel230]

I'll check out Listening In- thank you for the new channel to watch!

[@Abrown516]

I think you glossed over the coda. If you hear it in B, you're hearing i > III > IV > III > IV > III > V/ii back to i. None of those progression patterns represent how the melody interacts with the chords, and it would be an uphill battle to identify the cadences. In D you have vi > I > IV > I > IV > I > V/V > vi. This progression starts with a minor plagal cadence (as used similarly in Creep) followed by two plagal cadences that are accented by the 4-3 voicing in the melody. The last chord being notated in D as a V/V was a very clever way to both give a dominant sound for the last chord of the coda, as well as acting as the predominant before restarting the progression that begins on the minor plagal cadence. Not to mention the instrument that oscillates in the outro plays a D.

[@TellEveryoneRecords]

I've always thought of D Maj. as the key for the outro. I love hearing your thoughts on the entire song, but really enjoyed your explanation of the out. One thing that has helped me understand the music of Radiohead in a new way is the arrangements and the songbook Josh Cohen put out. His takes on their music have been so compelling.

[@MirrorDomains]

I'm actually understanding what you're talking about! I still need to learn more theory because it's not crystal clear but I'm getting there!

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Great!

[@thereasonbehindchickensacts]

Radiohead? You had my interest, but now you have my attention.

[@zesla.]

Thank you for making this video. You got me into Radiohead!

[@jefu5781]

Such a beautiful song. I think the verse is in A minor with a cut of Dorian. The chorus is in G major with that F#7 out of the tonality and finally the outro is in B minor getting into some Dorian with that E major

[@Em4gdn1m]

"Modal Goodness" I love it.

[@thisxgreatxdecay]

I was literally just playing "Karma Police" yesterday and Googled what key it was in so that I could better analyze the chords. The very next day, you post this video. Are you spying on me? Be honest, David Bennett Piano.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

I find the best way to choose engaging video topics to make is to spy on my viewers.

[@liquidsolids9415]

Loved the fantastic analysis, as usual. Thanks for some clarity on the key signatures of modes. Keep up the great work!

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you! 😃

[@maestrobpm911]

1 billion % thrilled that you made this with Listening In

[@hoppy2829]

This is one of the best chord progressions ever.

[@Henry3Studios]

This is how I hear it. Intro and verses: A Dorian Chorus: G Major Coda: B Minor

[@composer7325]

Brilliant, thank you,David.

[@buddha4tw]

Great collab, I love these channels that dissect songs and music in general.

[@interstellaraudiodnb]

Another really nice piece David.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you!

[@mickeyrube6623]

I haven't watched the video yet: It seems like it's in A dorian. The G major for the chorus, and B minor for the end. Edit: okay, good to see some people agree.

[@educostanzo]

Your videos keep getting better and better, I learn a lot on this channel!

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you! 😀

[@MaggaraMarine]

I agree, I hear a different tonal center at different points of the verse. But if I had to choose one for the verse, I would probably choose A. The phrases start on that chord, and the last phrase also ends on that chord. There's just too much emphasis on A to make E sound like the tonal center to my ears. Originally, I heard it in E, but after listening to it a couple of times, my ears settled on A. The beginning sounds like Em, but after that I hear it in A. So, I would say it's in A, but tonicizes E in the beginning - A is the "main tonal center", E is a "secondary" tonic. When it comes to the outro, I would say B is the main tonal center, D is a secondary tonic. It gets tonicized, but doesn't sound like the actual tonic to my ear. I want to hear it return to B. But in modern music, the relative keys are treated as basically the same, and there's this "tonal fluidity" because there are no strong cadences.

[@BrandonBriers]

It makes my day everytime I see a new video of yours David, amazing work 😁

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you !

[@GoodVolition]

Oh. I lean heavily towards the Am interpretation. I was convinced the "F#" was just the first inversion of a D major chord.

[@finalscore2983]

Verse is in A, no question for me. There's a bit of bass movement, with e-e/F#-G-a which is far too strong to let the tonic be anything else.

[@Gnurklesquimp]

I just LOVE smooth use of modes, I'd definitely watch a series about interesting mode combinations. One of my favorite things to do is pick any mode and then transpose that a tritone (, inverting that into a different mode, Aeolian a whole step below Lydian, for example, sounds amazing. You're immediately covering all 12 notes, can be really interesting and limitless ways of using it. Even when involving concepts other than modes, like in a 5-4-1 in harmonic minor, for example, Lydian from the 5th, Aeolian from the 4th, and then maybe phrygian chromatically walking back up to the 5 through Dorian on the 1. I listen to this progression and bet melody writers could do crazy things if some of the defining notes are left out of the harmony section, that 5 can easily sound like the 1 to me, it seems in large part due to the 2nds, 6ths and to a lesser extent the 4th and 7th in what was supposed to be the 1 chord, they just wanna pull me back to that 5. Leave those out in the Dorian at the end for a blander extended minor sound, and it sounds like the phrygian resolves to it.

[@huxleypig69]

The verse in Em for me, all day.

[@brendanhod]

I can hear that there is some subjectivity here with the cyclical chord progressions, but the confusion over the key largely results from theoreticians’ intense focus on 18th century European conventions. If there were not such a bias toward Ionian and Aeolian, people would almost all hear it as A Dorian (ask a traditional Celtic musician). Thanks for continuing to raise awareness about modes, David!

[@Cherodar]

I'm a musician steeped in eighteenth-century classical theory, but I still don't understand how anyone hear the verse's tonic as anything other than A--it just screams A minor, and none of those F-sharps or E minor chords does much to change that!

[@farrthom204]

I always thought that Am to F at the intro sounded so perfect

[@Juan_Teppa]

These comprehensive modal analysis videos are S U P E R B! They have been so helpful, enlightening and interesting! Thanks again David!

[@caterscarrots3407]

12tone mentions this hearing the same song or part of the song in 2 modes in his video on What key is Hallelujah in and he mentions what's called a double tonic complex, which is kind of like polytonality(2 keys at once) and kind of like modulation(changing keys), but not really either. Both tonics feel stable and like they could equally be the tonic and there is this swinging back and forth between the 2 tonics that makes them both stable, both equally good to analyze in if you are to analyze it in a single key. Polytonality, even of closely related keys tends to sound more rough and agressive. With modulation, yes you have 2 keys, but at any given point, you are only in one key, not 2 keys at the same time. I think the double tonic complex thing that 12tone mentions is going on here with the verse, it can be analyzed perfectly well in both tonics, both tonics are stable, and there is a swinging back and forth between the 2 tonics, so why not say that both are the tonic simultaneously?

[@hitsonacousticguitar]

In my humble opinion this would be Am, because the first chord of a song is like an establishing shot in movies. It gives the reference for all following notes. I like this song example. It shows that music and maybe art itself is not math but can play with it.

[@MAQS211]

Awesome video, awesome song! Great job and thank you a lot for breaking this one down! Love your content! Greetings from Austria.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thanks Markus! 😃

[@bgmaraujo]

1K likes and 0 dislikes. This is beautiful. DBP is amazing.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you Bruno! 😃

[@TacticsTechniquesandProcedures]

Eminor is the relative minor key of G. Since chorus is unequivocally G I would guess it makes sense to call the verse E minor. Btw I love how you explain your thoughts!

[@srt4b]

And since G and Em are the ‘same’ the whole song pre code is in G

[@Spectre0799]

as he says in the video the debate is only between whether it's in a dorian and e minor, both of which are modes of G major

[@mateusbez2669]

For a similar effect, check out Beach Boys “God Only Knows”. And then try to tell me if it is in A or E...

[@enkiitu]

He’s made a whole video about it. Or at least a big part of a video was dedicated to that song.

[@Wind-nj5xz]

God Only Knows what key that song is in

[@ziggydust91]

Absolutely love the content produced on this channel. Amzing work as always

[@justinb2630]

I know this is an old video, but wanted to share my thought on the Coda... I'm feeling it in D, big-time. The warbling tone at the end is solidly D, until it devolves at the very end. Great video!

[@brunovieiraborges9380]

OK Computer is a freaking-awesome masterpiece...

[@kerajeffery5758]

Great content and examples as usual, but I agree with some of the other commenters that "tonic" should be used instead of "root" unless specifically talking about the root note of a chord. 12 Tone does this as well, to be more accessible, but it seems unnecessary if the term is quickly explained. KZbin theory viewers ought to know what the difference is.

[@LouisSerieusement]

So cool, I asked this on your comment section a few days ago, but I didn't knew you were already working on it

[@nofilterpedris]

To me the outro is in D major because of this crescendo synth nearly at the end making a leap of a 4th from A to D

[@NB_703]

So interesting!!!! I love your channel so much. After 27 years performing - I still feel new to music theory. I hear E minor - and D major! That’s always what I felt when listening to this song. One of my all time favourites.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thanks Nathalie 😃😃

[@Kunduz1]

A true masterpiece

[@parkpatt]

This video is truly a banger. Love your channel, David, thank you! Godspeed

[@nattivl]

thanks for reminding me of this song's existence and that I need to add it to my playlist

[@vin-cc9nk]

great video, sometimes I find that songs with ambiguous tonal centers are more common than we expect in pop music

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Agreed!

[@sam-kk5do]

this video is such a good introduction to modes.

[@davidjaques5714]

So glad to see this video. When I first tried to learn some guitar theory after years of self-taught guitar I had a notebook where I would write down songs I found interesting structurally and try to figure out why I liked them or what was going on with the chord structure for example. Karma Police was one of the first songs that really interested me. I think I found it interesting because of the F# and F in the chord sequence; it feels like it is switching between A minor and A Dorian and that subtle cycle just makes the chords jump out a little to me. Thanks for the great videos, David!

[@davidstanley6883]

This is a perfect example of a situation where feeling rather than analysing works better. In which case the verse key feels like Am. As thats what I would end on.

[@ericmaas4735]

It’s a fascinating topic. What’s actually strikes me as significant is your choice to briefly use the Mona Lisa as a visual equivalent for tonal unambiguity. Although indeed the subject of La Gioconda is pretty straight forward, Leonardo da Vince deliberately shifts the vanishing points left and right of the model. Consider the concept of the key of the verse melody being decided by the context. This is similar: the longer you look, the more confusing it gets, the shift in perspective makes the overall composition of the painting just as impossible to grasp as the rabbit/duck drawing or the Karma Police key. Doesn’t it enhance the mystery and suspense of the painting? And that is exactly what makes the song so captivating, I think

[@damianwims]

Clearly the whole thing is in G, tut tut.

[@leftaroundabout]

I agree - though the song obviously does make clever use of modulation-suggestions, all segments do contain a G-major that feels like a tonic. And there's a very clear-cut reason for that: you always have an almost perfect authentic cadence D - G. In the last line of the chorus a bog-standard ⅱ-Ⅴ-Ⅰ, in the chorus a bog-standard Ⅳ-Ⅴ-Ⅰ, and in the coda a couple of repeated Ⅴ-Ⅰ. Even the first line of the verse can be seen as setting up ⅱ-Ⅴ/₃-Ⅰ but then inserting a (bog standard) deceptive cadence to Em before actually delivering the G. That's also a way to understand the last line of the coda, though there the E comes as a tierce picarde.

[@damianwims]

@@leftaroundabout that's a lot more technical sounding than I would have put it, but yeah. Looking at it as G with some interesting modal changes is still in line with the main thrust of the video I think.

[@chitlitlah]

Clearly it's F# Locrian...

[@damianwims]

@@chitlitlah *commence incandescent rage*

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Of course the whole song (minus the coda) fits in G Major as well as it does E minor or A dorian, but are you actually hear G as the root note?

[@PotatoesAreUs]

The Beach Boys - God Only Knows - A, D, or E? Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama - D or G? The Rolling Stones - Start Me Up - C or F? AC/DC - Heatseeker - Bb or Eb? A few other examples of ambiguous key centres that come to mind.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Cool examples! I didn’t know about the Rolling Stones or AC/DC examples!

[@PotatoesAreUs]

@@DavidBennettPiano full disclaimer, it may be just me that has issues with those two haha

[@Gregorovitch144]

My view is the verse is in A Dorian. The Am is played on three occasions for a total of two whole bars. Em is played twice for a total of one bar. That makes Am the tonal center IMO and the presence of the D chord, played twice, makes it A Dorian. The outro is more complex. It's the big hook of the song and the trick of it is the big fat out of key E chord supporting the surprising G# ending of the vocal phrase. Leaving aside the E maj ending, I would normally say the reast of it is D mixolydian since you have threee D chords for half a bar each and only two G chords for half a bar each, plus the D's are supporting the heavily emphasised and repeated "lost" in the vocal. However that idea is scuppered by the presence of thee F# bass for two of the D instances, that puts firmly in straight D major. But how to account for the E maj at the end? One way to look at it is the phrase is repeated over and over therefore the E major runs back into the Bm for one and a half of the total four bars of the phrase, think of it as |E///|Bm/D/|G/D/|G/D/|. In this view the coda alternates throughout between E mixolydian and D major with the Bm acting as pivot chord back to D major and the surprising G# at the end of the vocal line, which is the heart of the hook really, as a shock tactic wrenching it back to E mixolydian brute force style.

[@GIBKEL]

I’m not sophisticated enough in my knowledge beyond a bit of strumming and my poor attempts at making music. It’s seems to shift with the vocal....where it starts and stops and like you said, it doesn’t matter as it is six of one, half a dozen of another but a hell of a lot to enjoy. There is many illusions in there music. It almost seems as if there is going to be a wreck, a catastrophe and then we are pulled back just before the brink. Their music has kept my ears and brain engaged in a way that no other band has in the last 25 years. I keep revisiting each of their albums as a whole the way you enjoy solving a puzzle. Psychic tension and resolution perfected in a way that is hard to square and you either get or disregard in a way that keeps them on edge of music, rarely mentioned yet I know music was changed in ways we may not see for years to come. I have plunged in whole heartedly.

[@jonathanblevins1452]

If we believe the chorus is in G major. It may make sense to say the verse is in e minor (it’s relative minor)

[@astroandyborgloh]

Talking of the root note(s), Colin makes it even more confusing / interesting / ambiguous with his bass-lines, going from here to there, without a real center (at least, I hear it that way). His contribution to the song is brilliant, amazing tasteful bass-lines.

[@riy_llie8106]

this is the first time i've seen him actually play the piano

[@andreasheine9607]

Within the chorus I'm always drifting into Sexy Sadie. Can't help myself.

[@UnshavenStatue]

Sounds pretty clearly to be an A to me. Even the section you say kinda sounds like E to you, to me E there serves as a *classic* dominant there, just begging to be resolved to the fifth below it. The bassline is pretty persuasive in this case. Starts in a gentle A, then a gentle F, then the gentle dominant E, with a little "trill" back up F-G, resolving back to A and repeating the phrase. It's so easy to hear this bassline as 1 -- 6 -- 5 -- 6-7 -- 1 -- 6 -- 5 -- 6-7 -- 1 etc etc. The E is clearly a dominant. And same goes for the coda, even when you try to suggest B as the tonic, I can only here it as the submediant, begging me to add the 4 below it and a "8" above it, setting up the IV-V-I resolution that follows a moment later. The Gsharp in the melody is a bit funky, but only kinda drives home that B isn't the tonic, in my book.

[@Ken5244]

I don't think we can pin this excerpt down to one key or mode. It seems like it's either bi-tonal or it modulates. The R hand melody is almost certainly in A minor, as there aren't any F#s in it and bars 3, 5 and 7 seem to emphasize A as the tonal center. Plus the melody ends on A in Bar 6 and is tied over to Bar 7 -- that's pretty suggestive as well. And the key signature is empty. The note E only appears twice in the melody (in bars 2 and 4), and both times it's in the middle of the bar -- hardly suggestive of a tonal center. So scratch e minor as a choice for the melody, I think. But while the melody seems to be in A minor IMHO, the harmony seems to be in either A Dorian or G Major because there are four chords that contain F#s. Of the two, A Dorian might be the better choice since the chord accompanying the last note of the melody is Am (Bar 7). If the key there were G Major, a minor ii chord would be pretty strange to end on. And we couldn't call that a deceptive cadence either since the chord that precedes it (C) would be a IV chord in G, not a V. Just my opinion. Strange piece of music for sure.

[@kasfpg]

that was a weird moment, seeing my reddit post flash up

[@DavidBennettPiano]

😃😃

[@andrewbird233]

I've always heard verse in em, chorus in g and ending bm. Cool video!

[@FlamingZelda3]

My thoughts before watching the video: The song starts in Am and then switches to Em for the chorus and bridge in the second half. The transition works really well because we're switching from essentially C to G through the use of the phrygian mode, this is a technique classical composers use all the time to create a false cadence. Musically it sounds like a pun or a "Gotcha" moment. Karma police is doing the same thing, just on the minor side of the equation.

[@FlamingZelda3]

lol silly me forgot the song ends with a D major melody. So i think the actual conclusion is it's a rock combination of a bunch of musical ideas that fails to form into a cohesive whole and lacks meaningful (or at least satisfactory) structure. (Like Bohemian Rhapsody)

[@happyron]

Never been a big RadioHead fan, but I always was startled when I heard them songs at open mikes. Thanks to this video I start to understand why and maybe I should listen to more

[@DavidBennettPiano]

You definitely should! 😃😃

[@happyron]

@@DavidBennettPiano I do music that mostly is "Mr. Rogers" like, but I've always been fascinated by chord progressions and "beatles" chords that are outside of the key since I love the Beatles. Your videos have shown me other artists that do that and has expanded this 56 year old's horizons. Thanks! Here some of my songs if interested. kzbin.info/www/bejne/haO4i6J3rKZ7faM

[@cezarzbughin3362]

to me, the buildup at the end of the verse: Am |Am |Bm |D-Dsus4-D chilling then in Am really sets the root on A.

[@HGWeegee]

To me A Dorian feels right because the E felt like part of the chord structure coming back to A as the V and the 4th chord bringing it back to the I

[@jehmarxx]

I have a funny thought. Hypothetically, one could say that the mode changes every time there is a chord change. For example, in the axis chord progression I-V-vi-IV, you could say that the song/piece starts at the key of major, then Lydian, then minor, then Mixolydian.

[@Cherodar]

You should look up "chord-scale theory"!

[@EarlOfMaladyCrescent]

Awesome video! Personally, I'm team A minor. I do have a theory why some people hear E minor as the key for the verses. When the D/F# chord comes in, the melody notes are D then C. That's (sort of) turning the chord in to a D7/F#. D7 would normally resolve to G, but I think it can just as easily resolve to the enharmonic minor of G, which is E minor. That is the next chord.

[@michaelmarfisi8611]

Love this- personally I think it’s | Verse- A Dorian (w/ quick flat 6th for chromatic/dramatic effect), chorus (G Lydian- same scale), and coda (b dorian)... so mode change at the end

[@secularZoo]

I wish I could go back and relive the feeling I got the first time I heard this song as a teenager. I couldn't believe what I was hearing!