NP vs doctor? | Should I go to medical school?

[@tigerkenshi]

I respect your honest opinion about having physician supervision and working as a team. Having more autonomy and working independently sound great but that is huge responsibility/liability and people have to acknowledge the education and training difference between MD and NP.

[@cm2973]

The adequate training for safe independent practice would be medical school and completion of a residency, after which you would ONLY be qualified to practice in that specialty. NPs are not adequately trained to be independent practitioners and should stop pretending they are. That said, the supervision that a senior resident receives is adequate for competent PA/NPs; aka loose but direct supervision. For comparison. NPs = 500-700hrs of clinical time. Total. MD/DO = 5-6000 (five to six thousand) hrs during medical school. 10-15,000 hrs during residency. We are all necessary to take care of patients as a system and I really appreciate your realistic approach. I did want to highlight that what we are trained to do cannot be replicated with

[@imthrillz5255]

The best route is going to medical, but not everyone wants to/can commit the time to become a doctor. As for midlevel providers, in my opinion, having a bachelors and working in healthcare (nurse, RT, Med tech, rad tech, etc.) then going to PA school is the best route. There is no standardization in NP programs. I learned this when i was deciding between the two. NP school is not rigorous, i sometimes think nursing school has a more challenging curriculum. NP clinicals are also a joke at around 500 hours and most programs i researched you needed to find your own preceptors. There is no competitiveness in getting into NP school, some are direct entry all online 100% acceptance rates programs too. PA school is very competitive, it is modeled after medical school so their curriculum is very good. There is great standardization across the US with all PA programs, and clinicals are atleast 2000 hours everywhere i looked. Plus you actually get taught in all specialties a med student would get taught in, and you get a surgery rotation, unlike NP school (literally makes no sense). The downside to PA school is they let anyone with a bachelors apply, but they will get 2000+ hours of clinicals anyway, which is more than all the newgen NP students who get their BSN RN and then 3months later are in NP school lol…

[@yolocomics5468]

I think this video would have benefited from an actual MD or DO weighing in, or a little more research. 1. Premed isnt just MCAT/GPA/Prereqs. You can have 99th percentile on all of these and will 100% be rejected from most programs without extracurriculars. I have 2000 hours as an emergency scribe, 500 hours of clinical volunteering as a medical assistant, 600 hours of ochem research with 3 posters and 1 publication, 30 hours of shadowing, 100 hours of nonclinical volunteering, and this is still on the lower side of extracurriculars in addition to MCAT/GPA 2. MD and DO pathways are largely the same other than DO’s taking COMLEX in addition to STEP and studying OMM during med school 3. When applying to residencies most applicants apply to between 21-58 programs, not 6. I know 6 was probably just the first number that came to mind but when giving information a quick google search or asking an attending for information would prevent misconceptions

[@cm2973]

The model you describe for MD is exactly the same for DO. There are more schools that require an odd-ball prerequisite or two than there are standardized differences. Step 1 is more basic path mechanisms, treatment, and vignettes. Step 2 is application of the aforementioned, and Step 3 is decisions in practice. Step 3 is by far the easiest exam. You interview in 4th year and typical applicants that match interview at 12-15 programs.

[@LaurenMichelleMD]

You have such detailed knowledge of the medical training process. I don’t think I knew all this when I went to med school 😂 Finishing up my third year of med school soon and I have no regrets but it’s a longgggg road as you’ve so aptly described

[@And...ow3ch]

Always informative! I was mulling over going for my MD, specifically for the in-depth training they receive. I also was very interested in learning more about the medical model v.s the nursing model (I'm in FNP school). I ultimately chose the FNP route. I really wanted to obtain some knowledge of the medical model similar to the training that PA's receive. There was a dual NP/PA program at UC Davis where you could become dually certified, unfortunately, that program is no longer being offered.

[@DrMathOfficial]

It doesn't exist anymore because it's not only pointless for it to exist, but also down right stupid for it to exist, and they probably realized it wouldn't be / isn't profitable to them to have such a program when only the very few who are uninformed and lied to by PA s and Physicians about NP vs PA/ MD/ DO- would apply to the program. You have almost nothing to gain (except for waste of time) already being a nurse to then become both an NP and PA. Absolutely nothing. The only one that would benefit from that is someone who's already a PA .who then becomes an NP. Now they gain actual specialized knowledge and training, expanded scope of practice, ability to practice autonomously in many states (eventually in all states), the ability to open and run your own private practice or medical facility, the ability to get a doctorate degree and additional level of training and professional respect/ prestige (which will also lead into the next eventual benefit where NP's will eventually become equal to Physicians when the leadership behind NP's gets their shit together. None of this will ever come to PA's And it's illusion and deception that they have superior training and even their hours are a deception. Most of those clinical hours are them "shadowing", standing in a corner, quiet, watching. The same applies to the 2nd half of med school which is when it's mostly clinical focused. Theyre doing "rotations", going around to all of the different specialties SHADOWING. Not clinically practicing. And the main purpose of this is for the med students to find which speciality they like. But somehow over the years they started to also claim that it's part of their amazing and extensive clinical experience abd training. Just like adding their 4 years undergrad into their total years of training is a deception, when the vast majority of pre-med is fluff and weeding out- classes that have nothing to do with actually practicing clinically, in most specialities. 1 exception can be physics in relation to a med student then going into radiology. Outside if that physics (not beyond a very very basic level) is not used. And the other fluff classes are ESPECIALLY not used. But after being confronted about this, some will rationalize it away with "well it makes for a more well rounded doctor". Don't fall for the tricks and deceptions. NP'S still have a way to go to become equal to Physicians/ MD/DO. But NP vs PA? It"s not even close. Not as far as scope practice, flexibility, options, current and future opportunities, etc....but also as far as expertise. PA's don't have speciaized schools and training for specialties...and uninformed people think this is a good thing. The healthcare field is ALL ABOUT different soecialities and those having expertise in those specialties. You wouldnt send a Physical therapist to be a nurse in the ICU.....you wouldn't even send a NURSING HOME nurse or nurse from another speciality....to be an icu nurse (without very real training first), yet a PA can magically enter into all specialties? No. So they don't have a specialized school/ training....NP's do. So only a foolish or corrupt Physician or facility.....who want a position filled for a certain specialty, would choose a PA without expertise and specialized training in that area, over an NP. Even when it comes to family medicine an FNP is superior because again..specialized training...which the PA's didn't receive. The other part of the deception is that when people compare the 2, theyre ONLY accounting for the post grad years...so theyre comparing short, 1 1/2 year NP programs.....to 2 year PA programs, saying PA is superior not realizing that NP's had to first have approx SIX (6) previous years of nursing/ medical schooling and training....at least. Which then connected into that short 1 1/2 NP degree (which in the future will become 3- 3 &1/2 years for DNP, like with CRNA's now). So now you have current masters level NP'S with 7-8 years (not even including the pre-reqs), compared to PA's 2 years. Now one exception to the "pa's Don't have specialized training"" they do have an AA (Anesthesiology Assistant) program. Which has been around for decades i believe. But it never really picked up traction, and even now they only have like 5 schools in america if i'm not mistaken. And once CRNA's hit the scene...it really damaged them, and now that CRNA's have elevated even further....it pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for them (AA's), because the crna field and role is far superior, the scope of practice, the potential of pay, the autonomy, the future potential to elevate, the fact that theyre not regulated and for ever hindered by their Physician overlords. Etc. So much so that even Anesthesiology PHYSICIANS (mostly some of the younger ones and med students who aspire to be) are now regretting choosing that route over CRNA, and some of the older ones are hating and waging war against CRNA's (which is understandable, CRNA's are now their competition in many serious ways). So yea, that's just a few quick things, just a brief summary. In summary, don't fall for the deceptions. Good luck and God bless.

[@mattgehm7827]

In my opinion there no such thing of a nursing model or medical model anymore. They are old terms really dont apply anymore.

[@mattgehm7827]

@@DrMathOfficial there is so much wrong with comment and it sounds extremely biased

[@DrMathOfficial]

@Fry 18 You can fake laugh (and lie) all you like, that will never change realty. #1- NP training is actually not a joke compared to Physicians, and NP training and experience does not start at Med school, it starts numerous years prior to even enter into NP school, NP school added onto it. Which is one of the facts and realities that PA-Sexuals/ PA-Philes and net trolls like you, love to leave out and omit. #2- NP school/ training still doesn't equal or equate to that of Physicians, that's a fact. And it's one fact that need to change, it's one fact WILL change, and it's one fact that's already in the works of being changed. But once again, like clock work, you attempted to mention the CURRENT lack of Physician equal training, and attach that to my statement of "NP's will eventually be equal to MD's", without including the fact that "When NP's increase their training and standards, they will then rise to become equal to MD's", and that's in skill, knowledge, scope of practice, compensation, everything. And the healthcare infrastructure and legal/ laws are already in place for that to happen, NP's/ NP leadership just need to increase to meet/ match that level, standard, and laws that are and will be in place. CRNA's have already done this, and are still elevating and progressing as we speak. #3- CRNAs: Now, from what I just mentioned above (CRNA's are already there, they're already equal to their Physician Counterparts, especially DNP CRNA's- equal in skill, knowledge, ability, scope of practice, etc), so the question we'll now lay on you: Is CRNA training a joke? And are you currently so in rejection of reality (or accepting and aware of reality, but pathologically dishonest), that you don't admit that CRNA's are already there, in terms of what I said that NP's will eventually become? And if you accept that CRNA's have ascended to that level, it will be you, once again, rejecting reality when you deny that NP's are already planning to, are able to, and will follow. Take care and God bless.

[@DrMathOfficial]

​@@mattgehm7827 You say there's so much wrong with what I said, meanwhile I guarantee you can't disprove even one thing that I said (because I only speak proven facts publicly, which is one of my personal policy's). That also dispels the "biased" part. I don't indulge in being bias, no matter what the situation, occasion, or relation. I'm on the side of the facts, regardless of anything else. If my own mother is wrong, then that's what I'll say. #2- You then proceed to make a very uninformed, misinformed, ignorant statement, stating that "there's no such thing as the nursing model and the medical model. these are very old terms". So once again, Femur, the name of a bone in our body..........is a very old term. Does that magically make the term incorrect and invalid, because "it's a very old term" ? Do facts and reality change, because they're not "very old terms" ? Of course not. But what you said shows that you're extremely ignorant regarding the issue, which is okay, but the problem comes when a person is ignorant and uninformed on an issue, yet proceeds to disrespect or talk down to/ about another person in relation to the issue. The nursing model and medical model are very real things, and the 2 models are very different, from the foundation to the surface. The nursing model IS the medical model, with many useful and beneficial Nursing ideologies, nursing skills, and approaches to treating patients- added on top of it. The nursing model focuses on, accounts for, and treats- The person's whole, entire self, their physical body/ condition/ disease, the mind, their spirit/ soul, their social circumstances, their financial circumstances, everything. Along with (again) possessing various nursing skills that PAs and MD's do not have. Take care and God bless.

[@HRU-ou3vi]

You make "GREAT" videos. However, I finally decided stay in "nursing" for SOOOOO many factors.

[@mariepolydor1602]

Good information. However, would you suggest that a seasoned nurse, that perhaps worked in the critical care setting that the intensivists trust and ask them what ought to do next, would you suggest that they ought to go through 4000-5000 clinical hours? In my opinion, the APRN programs were initially created for those nurses that were already experienced. Although the problem is that new RN's go straight into NP programs and unfortunately that is part of the problem. It makes the profession less desirable to those that are more . So most of us would rather pursue CRNA or MD rather than acute or family NP. But Acute or Family NP are good professions my opinion, just unfortunately saturated by new grad RN's with less experience that simply rushed through online NP programs. This also drives the pay down. Which is another issue in itself. Peace!

[@maxthefax13]

Why do you think that any amount of nursing experience could reliably replace the education and training received in medical school and residency?

[@Drmdunn]

Thank you for this! I love your videos.

[@redpilledbachelor7776]

FYI, Step 1 is a Pass/fail so it won't matter much. Step 2 CK is a big deal now.

[@dr.lindsaymarie]

Great video. Interestingly MDs, NPs, PAs generally do all the same work! Only the training differs greatly. Much more sacrifice to be an MD.

[@ngadao3326]

Some segments in the video are stamped not adjacent to each other

[@lin3224]

💖

[@AndyyWithAY]

I've met many NPs and PAs that I'd want to handle my care over some of these so called doctors. APCs are amazing

[@suns1457]

I thinks NPs NEED to step up their programs and do more extensive teaching and maybe add a residency. Then NPs should be able to practice autonomously! We really need to step up our masters and doctors programs! The nursing field has so much potential. I think we can rival DOs and MDs in the future and stand on same level if only the nursing associations spend time and money building up the infrastructure.

[@mattgehm7827]

Start requiring the same level of education to the same standards as medical schools and you'll see the number of schools and students drop off and you'll run into the same problem again of a shortage of providers

[@4XD45]

LMAO WHAT? Sorry, but NP's can never be at the same level as MD's/DO's. MD's and DO's have over 20,000 clinical hours, multiple licensing exams, and have to take board exams. I recommend you read Patients at Risk: The Rise of the Nurse Practitioner and Physician Assistant in Healthcare, you'll understand.

[@radmoonable]

Why would you want NPs to end up doing the same work as MDs/DOs? What of the point of having 3 different degrees with the same career path?

[@suns1457]

@@radmoonable isnt it obvious?? there is a huge shortage of independent care providers and MD/DOs get wayyyy more money and autonomy then NPs and they have better job security. I would have gone for MD/DO but it takes way to long and too much money. but I see NPs moving towards something good like that if we play our cards right and stop pumping out incompetent NPs and maybe add a residency

[@mattgehm7827]

@@suns1457 once you start adding on residency and implement higher standards for entry into the programs you'll run into the same issue with physicians with there being a shortage

[@slateralden4178]

Currently studying for the USLME step 1 after completing 2 years of medical school (mainly online d/t covid) at SGU a Caribbean school in Grenada. For all you out there that want to go to medical school but realize the slim odds to get into US med school, apply, and if you don't get it just go Caribbean. There's no shame and no one cares. It's how you do on Step 1 that dictates EVERYTHING. I had a 3.7gpa, 508 MCAT, 2 bachelors degrees, president of student orgs, did an honors biochem research study, and 2 years of working as a nursing tech yada yada yada and applied to US medical school for 3 years and didn't get it. If you're an accomplished candidate and not getting into a med school do NOT let them stop you. At the end of the day it's only 2 years out of the country and the 2nd half you're in US hospitals. Comment if you have any Qs :P