Day 3 Lee and Longstreet Part 2

[@MaxxCoyote]

"There is no one I trust more...But I'm also not going to listen to a damn word you say."

[@dclark142002]

Longstreet never said anything about the right or not doing this attack.

[@jdsmith542]

Longstreet only had one idea: find strong ground and wait for the enemy. Lee understood that he needed to smash the AoP in the north, or all was lost, and he knew that Meade was not going to be led by the nose as so many Union general had been. Lee also knew that Vicksburg was in terrible shape, and would fall soon, adding to the pressure on him to produce a victory that would demoralize Northern voters and impress foreign observers. All Longstreet saw was a battle; Lee was trying to win a war.

[@Tmindful182]

Lee knew once Grant crushed Vicksburg in the coming days hed come east to finish him… Lee would wake up in the night shivering thinking grant was coming to get him… It was now or never.

[@webinator9715]

I enjoyed all 9 pixels of this clip.

[@IrishCarney]

That was hi def to us in those days, and we liked it.

[@tylerdurden4392]

I'd enjoy it if Lee were Super Mario.

[@rc59191]

Lol it's from 10 years ago when you could get away with uploading movies on KZbin.

[@JaneSmith-so6hw]

You can smell the VHS burning

[@JaneSmith-so6hw]

@@IrishCarney Very true, just happy to have a movie/movies rented for the weekend, even if you had to rewind all of them. It's a golden age thought now and I miss it.

[@ZGundam83]

1:41 “Now, they have the stone wall, like we did at Fredericksburg.” That is a very powerful comparison.

[@ronaldshank7589]

Amen. Gen. Longstreet could (In a way of saying) see it as clear as day. He never even gave Pickett's Charge a One in a Trillion chance of success. I simply cannot get over just how stubborn Gen. Lee was being. He felt like he had to do something, though, so he chose the Union Center to attack. Easily the dumbest move in the entire Civil War!

[@William.H.Bonney1]

Should have been discharged in shame after it and not allowed the dignity of surrendering on the army behalf.

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

@@William.H.Bonney1 - Lee spoke with Jefferson and requested to be relieved of command of the Confederate Army, but Jefferson refused and Lee went on to make life hell for the Union in the two years following Gettysburg.

[@William.H.Bonney1]

@@ARCtrooperblueleader lol how by going on the offensive against a better equipped larger force sacrificing valuable men in stupid charges while losing vicksburg Atlanta and basically anything important to his country. Worrying about his own good image while Sherman burned his country to the ground looting women and childrens homes and didn’t even make a single attempt to retaliate at all, wouldnt even send a threat to washington to stop them from terrorizing civilians. Generals begging him to pressure the capitol and he wouldn’t. He was a coward that wouldn’t even acknowledge them as the enemy which is why he says “those people” we should stop glorifying him as anything other than a man in over his head. His greatest victories were when his generals did the logistics you see his true ignorance at Gettysburg. Should have been shot after it. The hilarious part is he quotes napoleon in this movie and makes a move people napoleon smashed would make lol

[@ronaldshank7589]

@@William.H.Bonney1 If you're talking about Gen. Robert E. Lee....now that you brought that up.....I must agree with you, Sir! I can't believe that he did that! Imagine seeing those Brave Confederates, simply doing what they've been ordered to do, knowing that THIS was like walking straight into the very jaws of Death! A good many of them died fighting for their Home State, the State of Virginia (Which, coincidentally, is where I'm from), and knowing that they couldn't accomplish such a task, in the face of such overwhelming odds...and yet, they went, anyway! Actually, there were one or two places, where the Confederates broke through the Union Line, albeit briefly. In short, they did the best that they could, all things considered. After that, things changed. One thing that has gotten me curious, is this:Union General Gordon Meade had at least one, maybe more, chances to (& oh! I hate to say this!), destroy the Confederates...and yet, didn't. I'm glad that he didn't, don't get me wrong. I've wondered, though, for a long time, why he didn't press the advantage. Maybe he actually felt sorry for the Confederates....and showed them some mercy. Here's a thought that just crossed my mind, too. Maybe, as he witnessed Pickett's Charge, and saw what had happened, he may have felt more than a little bit of pity for his opponents. I really can't make heads or tails of that particular situation. That being said: I'll just leave it to history.

[@martymcdonough1111]

Longstreet knew what was coming. He was in command at Marye's Heights where the Confederates did to the Union what the Union was about to do to the Confederates. He saw it, recognized it, advised against it, tried to counter it... but Lee thought he and his men were invincible. And it was his doom.

[@timsindt5245]

The price paid for RE Lee

[@JD1976]

Perhaps. But I always believed that Lee knew it would fail.

[@irohsbelly5829]

@@JD1976 if he knew he would fail then why would he order it? That’d make him sadistic or a lunatic!!! Shouldn’t of attacked on the second day either imo but I’m born and bred yankee, I’m not upset at his blunder

[@temsedgwick9494]

@@irohsbelly5829 IMO, folks sometimes float that conspiracy to defend Lee and insinuate he knew the South was doomed and threw the fight to end the war earlier...

[@sextusempiricus7913]

Lee was running out of options. The Union army had too many men with more on the way.

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

In reality, the union lines chanted "Fredericksburg!" as the confederate forces approached. That must have sent a chill down their spines.

[@kaledivh]

Especially so considering I would assume most of those Confederate forces were AT Fredericksburg and saw what happened. Horrifying thought to consider as your marching and realizing the role is now reversed.

[@marknewton6984]

Marye's Heights!

[@Nello353]

Fredericksburg changed hand over Twenty times during the war.

[@jonnie106]

My favorite part of the movie. After watching this scene many times, I can still feel II Corps vindication when the survivors of Marye's Heights called it out, as what they took in Virginia they dished out in Pennsylvania and my eyes weep as I join the chant under my breath.

[@davecrupel2817]

"What are you thinking, General?" What does it matter, General?

[@univac7677]

Just got back from Gettysburg. Toured the battlefield on horseback, something I highly suggest if you have the opportunity. Many things become more clear when you are there but one main thing that stuck out was that the field where Pickett’s charge started from is actually an uphill grade, you couldn’t really see the union center until you start towards the emmitsburg road. That had to be one of the biggest ‘oh no’ moments if you were making that charge and got to the crest of the hill and really saw the union defenses. I suggest the trip for sure. The monuments, the national cemetery and the visitors center museum are all well done and moving.

[@mikesuggs1642]

The Whole premise of the assault depended on the Artillery driving the Federal Troops from their position and making a gap that could be taken and widened by the charging 3 Divisions of Pickett and Company. Once a lodgment was made. Stuarts Cavalry was in position to harass any Union retreat and it is highly likely the Half of the Union Army still on Culps hill and Cemetery ridge would have been cut off and forced to surrender. However Nothing went Right, Nothing, Not one single thing. The Southern Artillery failed to drive the Union Troops or Guns out of the Center. There was more damage done to Meade's HQ far in the rear than to the actual battle-line due to the many overshoots. The 18 Federal Rifled guns that had been Withdrawn during the initial bombardment was rushed back into place and they did incredible bloody damage to Pickett's lines well before they even reached the road or the Fence that became a additional impediment. Once the Southerners got to within Rifle range, Northern Troops believe it was Vermont or Minnesota soldiers simply enfiladed them by moving forward and delivered devastating volleys into their flank as the Flank guards for Kemper and Garnet fell behind and never caught up. The Offensive might of the Army of Northern Virginia was bled out that day on unequal terms and Lee must take the Blame. The whole thing was folly. It should never have been ordered and Davis should have accepted Lee's offer of Resignation after the battle. It was that bad.

[@univac7677]

@@mikesuggs1642 Very good information. After the artillery bombardment didn't drive the center off, retreating for another day looks wise now. Lee always heard a clock ticking in the back of his head. It was always the 4th Quarter and he knew he couldn't compete with the population or industrial might of the north. Also, he had a good record up until then, seems like all those items factor in his choice to keep moving ahead. As a side note, we took a horse guided trail ride around the battlefield, I highly suggest that.

[@sirscrotum]

Dont forget that sweltering July heat. With all that gear on you and that heavy 1855 springfield, you'd be exhausted under the duress of combat making that charge

[@ronschafer8194]

Been there three times and seen what you clearly describe. It was a suicide charge over open ground.

[@barrydlewis7768]

I have been there twice and was moved to tears both times.

[@brianvalero6272]

hearing Lee in this clip is like listening to the ravings of a mad man.

[@markmerzweiler832]

No, like a man who wanted to end it.

[@rc59191]

Especially after General Longstreet painted a pretty detailed picture of what would happen if they sent 15000 men across open ground to be gunned down.

[@matthines4748]

It's interesting that Longstreet was a close friend of Ulysses Grant (his cousin married Grant) and both had a similar temperament about tactics. Longstreet was underappreciated as a tactician, since he felt the South could best win by fighting a defensive war. It is said that his pioneering trench tactics were studied long after the war and copied in the trenches of France fifty years later.

[@Robofish12]

Completely agreed. Longstreet was wrongfully dragged through the mud by Lost Causers like Jubal Early after the war. He was was one of the war's best generals on either side.

[@SantomPh]

@Stuart Donnelly Early was already threatened on his left flank by Reynolds' forces who were coming from the east. He was also diverted from his previous mission to get to Harrisburg, so he was much further upfield than the others. According to Ewell he had to withdraw because there was no way they would get to the high ground intact and without being engaged by unknown amounts of Union troops. the fault still lies with Stuart and the lack of intelligence and reconnaissance from his cavalry.

[@hhale]

@Stuart Donnelly Jackson would have convinced Lee to try something else. Jackson preferred to outmaneuver the enemy, not attack them head on. Charging across an open field over a mile into the center of the enemy line? I don't see that happening.

[@ms1535]

I agree that losing Jackson was a blow that the South couldn’t rebound from. He was a man with a sharp tactical mind that preferred movement to a set piece battle. Chancellorsville was a brilliant example. His boys were so close to the yanks while marching around the union flank that they could hear and see the yank campfires. Also the missing Stuart hurt Lee immensely. Stuart raided the countryside only to be chased by union calvary accomplishing nothing. The CSA should have taken Cemetery Ridge as a first priority on day one. And if that was not possible, let the yanks have it and devise a plan to pick high ground somewhere else, possibly closer to DC and make Meade come to him. Besides the CSA did not have enough troops or cannon for a frontal assault as history shows. “Fix and Flank” should have been Lee’s Strategy. BTW, Meade was fired for not following Lee after the charge which I think was unfair to Meade.

[@ms1535]

Stuart Donnelly, I must be getting senile. It would have taken Meade hours to get his troops and logistics in order. Like you also stated. Thxs for the correction friend.

[@alainarchambault2331]

"They have the stone wall like we did at Fredericksburg." Frontal assaults was already proven to be wasteful.

[@DestructZero]

I think it was Sun Tzu who said never assault a fortified enemy position.

[@1982kinger]

Jackson would never have done it

[@osurpless]

Anyone have a subtitle for the Napoleonic tactic Lee mentions at :42? Feu da feur?

[@jeffreydrozek-fitzwater4649]

And to think armies had to learn that lesson all over again 50 years later...

[@TRKEWEENAW]

I was at Fredericksburg (not during the battle) and walked that killing ground, stood at that wall and just tried to imagine the slaughter which took place there. I am sure my imagination was no match for what actually happened.

[@ribonucleic]

Lee: God go with you. Longstreet: Can God go with Hill instead?

[@rc59191]

Lol I don't blame him at all for that the plan was insane.

[@ryanS593]

@@rc59191 it really was a massively bad plan.

[@rc59191]

@@ryanS593 ya and on top of that Lee supporters still try to blame Longstreet for it not working.

[@ryanS593]

@@rc59191 I agree. Nothing against Lee, but this was totally his fault. Longstreet was an outstanding tactician. Lee got cocky with all the previous successes.

[@RDR1089]

The book “The Killer Angels” by Michael Sahara, is a must read for anyone who is interested in the battle of Gettysburg. It gives a vivid account from both sides and will give you a new perspective on what the Generals …(and some regular soldiers) thought about the battle nd the war in general.

[@marknewton6984]

Great book!

[@garyscherer5275]

Outstanding book!

[@jeffmathis8627]

Sun Tzu would have considered this attack a violation of every thing he considered sound battlefield decisions. This is were Lee believed his own myth and that of his army being unbeatable.

[@richardpfaff4461]

100% man. Sun Tzu would have been mortified.

[@richardpfaff4461]

It's a good thing though.

[@CJN4737]

" the battle is won before its fought " or in this case was lost.

[@steed3902]

Notra damus predicted this whole thing!

[@joshlight6892]

@@steed3902 oh please.

[@ddvette]

At Waterloo Napoleon had to have a victory but could not break the English lines so he finally sent in his elite Old Guard that were slaughtered. The similarities to Picket’s charge are striking. History repeats itself.

[@daniellee8162]

With all the signs Longstreet shown and the look on Lee's face is about as real as it can get. Lee must have felt deep down Longstreet was right but Lee was so invested in this one battle that he felt the time was all or none.

[@bcask61]

Lee knew the South could not win a protracted war. He knew their only chance was to win in 1863. It was a desperate gamble, but in his mind it was necessary.

[@dansampson6720]

This movie adds more humanity than any history book ever would

[@theone-mz5ut]

Not for me.

[@inthedarkwoods2022]

It was Ted Turner's attempt at making one last "lost cause" movie. In reality, Lee was stupid.

[@dansampson6720]

@@inthedarkwoods2022 I’d hardly call Lee stupid, mistakes made by Generals during the civil war is an endless list. Happens to all the best like Jackson, Grant, Sherman ect. Having researched battles like Gaines Mill, Fredericksburg ect. Pickett’s charge wasn’t out of the order, mass charges were although costly the only effective way to break through an enemy line especially in a fortified position. Yes perhaps Lee could’ve moved around Meade to fight on ground of his choosing but that to isn’t a risk free scenario and delves more into the thinking of what if history with no facts. Also to call Gettysburg a lost cause myth movie is just confusing, it favours both sides unlike Gods and Generals which is terrible.

[@inthedarkwoods2022]

@@dansampson6720 Lee was stupid.

[@billandrews]

In the months before Gettysburg, Lee repeatedly wrote Confederate President Jefferson Davis that, in his opinion, due to the growing disparity between the Confederacies ability to re-supply its men and the Unions ability to do so, "military victory" against the North was "no longer possible". The only hope he wrote was Propaganda. "If I can whip the North on its own soil, the Northern Peace Party would demand settlement on terms favorable to the Confederacy." "Under these circumstances, we should neglect no honorable means of dividing and weakening our enemies." wrote Lee to Davis. "We must give all the encouragement we can, consistently with the truth, to the rising peace party of the North." The obvious problem with that was that half of the "Peace Party" wanted the southern states to return the Union. To this, Lee wrote to Davis saying the South should not make "nice distinctions." "When peace is proposed to us it will be time enough to discuss its terms." Lee's plans for that Propaganda victory "on Northern soil" were completed by June 1863 and on the 3rd of June, Lee began to move his Army northward into Union territory. The War, the Confederates though in 1861, would not last more than a year, as such, they did not save up stores for a prolonged conflict and it had been showing since early 1862. Lee was constantly dealing with shortages of supplies and food and men. In March of 1862, less than a year since the war began, Lee wrote James Seddon, the Secretary of War "Let the State authorities take the matter in hand, and see that no man able to bear arms be allowed to evade his duty." "Let every effort be made, every means be employed, to fill and maintain the ranks of our armies, until God, in His mercy, shall bless us with the establishment of our independence." Whatever you may think of Lee, he endured the same sufferings as his men. He refused luxuries and ate nearly as little as his men did. While his tent was an ordinary Offices tent, drafty and wet. As he had to few men to grant furloughs to his Army, he never took one. He even refused a new uniform, even the new sash his wife sent him. "My old blue will serve me yet awhile." he wrote back to his wife Mary. Lee did not believe that he would survive the war, and he did not want the papers saying he was found dead in a high style. He was he said, "just a soldier". He would lead by example, and in response, Mary, like her husband, did as well. By late March 1862, Lee was almost yelling in his letters to Seddon. "My soldier's daily ration is only 18 ounces of flour, 4 ounces of bacon, of indifferent quality, with occasionally supplies of rice, sugar, or molasses." Scurvy had become a problem as well and there was no medicine nor lemons to combat it. Scrounging for food was the Armies #1 activity and there was never enough food when they could find it. The north, on the other hand, suffered a wealth of supplies. The North had fully reordered its great manufacturing sectors to supplying war goods. The Union's soldiers had an embarrassment of riches. So much so that soldiers literally toss away any weight that they did not think was absolutely essential. Come the Spring, Winter coats littered the roadsides on which they marched. They knew come the fall they would get new ones. Fry pans, tin plates? "Away with you." They used their canteen halves for pan and plate. This while some Confederate soldiers were without boots. In the Western Theatre, which did not get the attention of the treasury that Lee's forces did, it was even worse. Some Southern soldiers in the Army of Tennessee were fighting with old style Flintlocks rather than modern percussion cap rifles. These were useless when it rained as the pan got wet and soaked their powder. More important to the Army itself was, Lee could see that his army was growing smaller while the North's army was growing larger. As he laid out his plans for his second invasion of the North, Lee knew he would never be able to front an army of this size again, while the North would never have an army this small again. This whipping on Northern soil he knew he needed to inflict, was going to be the last truly large fighting force Lee would ever have. 176 cannon were gathered up by Lee. When they opened up on the center of the Union line on July 3rd (day 3, Pickets charge), it was the largest artillery barrage of the war. But a shortage of powder and cannonball helped to defeat its intended effect. That, and the Devil's own idea that came to General Hunt, head of the Union's Artillery. Gen.s Meade, and Hunt, suspected the attack on the center after the failed attacks on the flanks on day 2. Gen. Hunt, clever devil that he was, ordered his cannon to remain silent for the first 15 minutes of the barrage. Then he only ordered a third of his guns to fire back. This lead Lee into thinking that his artillery barrage had knocked out the majority of Hunt's guns. It was a brilliant feint which had the proper effect upon Lee's mind. Thinking that most of the Union's guns were destroyed Lee ordered Picket's men forward. As we know, most of the Confederate's men never got close to the Union’s lines that afternoon. Only at the bend in the Union's line known as "The Angle", did Gen Armistead's Corps engage the Union at close quarters fighting, but Northern re-enforcement quickly arrived. Seconds after Armistead ordered his men to turn the union cannon, they had just taken, around to use on the Union itself, he was to find that they were all empty. All the canister shot had already been fired into his men. Of the first volley fired by the newly arrived Union re-enforcements to The Angle, three musket balls found the General's chest and Armistead fell dead and with him the dreams of the Confederacy. The War was now effectively over. It was only a matter of the South facing up to the fact. Many, including myself, would say the turning point, the beginning of the end, occurred the previous spring of 1862 at Malvern Hill on July 1st, the last day of the Seven Days Campaign. Lee began the battle with 52,000 men but left more than 22,000 dead on the battlefield when it was over. Southern newspapers shocked at the number of the dead called Lee a "butcher" and "incompetent". So did General Hill, who lost his entire Corps that day, just as Picket will in a years time at Gettysburg lose his Division. Both Generals died hating R.E. Lee. Of the Battle, which Gen. Hill had forcefully urged Lee not to make, Hill publicly called it not war but "murder". Lee's failure at Gettysburg was in part a well-played feint by Gen. Hunt, but regardless, this battle Lee knew, was the last hope. He had to attack. Too many men had already died, men he knew he would never replace. Lee's back was against the wall, Lee had to fight, so he gambled, and lost.

[@rubyguthrie6945]

My daddy, when he was youngman, knew General Longstreet back in Georgia( yes I am a seasoned citizen...almost 82) and Daddy told me that General Longfstreet was a kind and thoughtful gentleman and really liked General Lee. Longstreet said Lee did under estimate the SKILL and POWER of the Union artillery and THAT was his biggest error.

[@davecrupel2817]

ruby guthrie wow!

[@univac7677]

How old would your Dad have been when he spoke to General Longstreet? How interesting. I’m a fairly big Longstreet fan, I believe he was a little ahead of his time actually.

[@bbb462cid]

Longstreet has always been a dignified and semi- noble figure to me. During a reunion of the confederate survivors, he was not invited due to his criticism of Lee's strategy at Gettysburg. Longstreet showed up anyway, in uniform, and he was respectfully applauded, according to the story.

[@devinreese1109]

Nice to meet you, ruby guthrie, even if only on line. A great story!

[@univac7677]

Mr. Blutarsky - neat story. Believable. In a way, each general was correct. Longstreet knew the strategy was flawed and Lee knew they were just so short on time. I guess in end it was inevitable. Mr. Bluetarsky, I think your grade point was a lot higher than John Bleushi’s.

[@jonathandavis5272]

No matter Lee's brilliance in former battles, this attack seems to be a total debacle and he was warned!

[@tampaguy304]

As Longstreet pointed out earlier the Union Army had good interior lines with strong reserves not engaged and had breakthrough been achieved it would likely have been checked and repulsed by days end in any case.

[@koookeee]

"If the men would ever have reached the clump of trees, they would have seen a Virginia Monument." Kate Beaton

[@mkeogh76]

I've warmed-up to Martin Sheen's performance over the years. Initially, I was offput by his less than physically imposing presence and obvious discomfort on horseback, but I've come to appreciate his ability to capture Lee's mindset. His performance is even more remarkable considering how he came to this film relatively late due the production only turning to him after it failed to land Robert Duvall. Ten years later, Maxwell did finally get Duvall to play Lee for "Gods & Generals", but he had significantly aged within those 10 years and was a shell of himself. One thinks what a terrific Lee a still vigorous Duvall would have made in 1992, but sadly that didn't happen. Still, Sheen as a 2nd choice did a good job and his performance has aged well.

[@cdjhyoung]

Consider, please, that historians believe that Lee had suffered a mild heart attack shortly before the Gettysburg battle and was suffering from dysentery at the time of the battle. Sheen's low energy depiction of Lee may very well be historically accurate.

[@Tina06019]

General Longstreet was very intelligent and capable.

[@codyrodgers6426]

The northern generals had great respect for Longstreet they new he was a capable commander and Longstreet also knew how the northern generals operated which he why he tried warn Lee about General Hancock's Boys. He knew they were up against some of the best northern generals at Gettysburg.

[@maaz322]

Man was legendary. Lived to 82, 6 days short from his birthday, brandished the republican party following the war and led African American militias against the anti-reconstruction white league. People try to pitch the confederate cause as abjectly racist, but you see clearly it was more complicated than that. People assume 'because Longstreet fought for the Confederacy, Longstreet must be a racist, vile man'

[@sethwallacephd3418]

Ive read many of the comments below and am impressed with the respect, knowledge and thoughtfulness of most. Thank you. As for me, my late grandfather, Willard M. Wallace, PhD, Prof of History at Wesleyan Univ in CT wrote...The Soul of the Lion...a biography of J.L. Chamberlain. So, I grew up visiting battlefields... incl Gettysburg. That noted, I dont recall Gramps ever criticizing Lee or Longstreet. I suspect the following variables formed Lee's decision to attack rather than re-deploy: 1.Until that battle, Lee's Army had never been defeated. 2. Lee knew he had no consistent supply train of weaponry and other necessities 3. Lee knew that if the battle was won Lincoln was likely to sign a peace treaty with Jefferson Davis. 4. Lee could not have known that a 'Tipping Point' had been reached within the Union Army. What had once been a group of poorly trained and resentful soldiers - had evolved into and extremely effective fighting force comparable to his own. Ground troops had become more experienced and Commanders, like Hancock + Chamberlain had risen to positions where they could make a difference. 5. Lee knew General Meade - and based on that understanding - he made a calculated decision: Meade would be cautious (which in fact he was - as demonstrated by Meade's choice not to pursue Lee after Pickets charge). 6. Lee probably should have listened to Longstreet... but it was Lee who was dealing with pressure from Jefferson Davis and ultimately I suspect Lee believed fate was on his side. 7. And of course there were other variables involved... The absence of Jeb Stuart's Calvary, Longstreet's potentially purposeful delay to attack... and so many more... Some we know and others we don't. Ultimately the battle was incredibly tragic and I am always haunted yet amazed by the bravery and commitment of the soldiers on both sides.

[@gunsgeargadgetswithgrady5062]

I enjoyed reading your comments. You made a very knowledgeable and scholarly response. I agree with you that Lee was under tremendous pressure to succeed. The fact that he was in Pennsylvania at all suggests this to be true. Keep up the good work!

[@SantomPh]

his ambition was to get the North to dump Lincoln and recognize the South out of pure exhaustion from the war. However Lee was no politician and was a fighting man through and through. Unlike Davis he wanted to defeat his enemy decisively on the field, this proved to be his undoing. Longstreet knew that if the ANV repeated defensive battles on a march to Harrisburg or Washington DC the Union would eventually cave in to anti-war sentiment in the North. Lee was not patient enough to realize this, although he himself advocated a strike on Washington DC at one point to end the war quickly. Meade's conservatism ironically was what made his defensive strategy so effective- internal lines, impregnable formations, use of cavalry, terrain and supply lines; all things Lee was also very good at. Gettysburg was slightly strange in that the Union never charged the Confed lines until the very end, even that was at the southern tip of the line with Kilpatrick's cavalry to minimal effect. When the Union went on the offensive Meade was demoted from top commander in favor of Grant, but unlike his predecessors remained in charge of the Army of the Potomac and with dignity.

[@toddtoes3178]

7. The greatest loss to the Confederacy was that of Stonewall Jackson at Chancellorsville. On day 1 Jackson would’ve taken the high ground and the battle of Gettysburg would’ve never been written. Yes there would’ve been another battle in Pennsylvania but not at Gettysburg. When Jackson died so did the Confederacy. The Confederate army never won another battle after his death. Some may argue the confederate army won the battle of Cold Harbor but the reality is the confederate army couldn’t afford to lose all those men at Cold Harbor. The was was over after Gettysburg and Vicksburg were lost.

[@paulsullivan6946]

Hard disagree on point three. There was no way Lincoln would have signed a Peace Treaty with the South. The man was simply not prepared to accept any agreement that allowed the South to remain an independent country. Now, a victory at Antiem would have imperiled Lincoln's reelection (already an uncertain prospect) which was Lee's ultimate goal; bleed the North dry until someone other than Lincoln was at the helm. Ultimately, however, the North retained its confidence in the commander and Chief and the Union war machine ground the South down, as it always was eventually going to do.

[@mastergmoore]

I have to disagree partially. Hubris. He beat back the Union every time in the South but different cases going North. Many generals including Jackson agreed that attacking the Union outside of “Southern” States was a bad idea. Jeb Stuart being late actually landed him in a suicidal cavalry attack agains the Union. Outside of Gettysburg. So he wasted skilled cavalrymen and equipment that could not be replaced. Longstreet was flustered at the end of day 1 for not being granted the order of driving the Union off the field entirely, and suggests to abandon the field for better ground that they can choose to fight on between Washington or at least breaking away from the fight to defeat in detail. Lee discourages Longstreet again and orders his men through the rocks at Devils Den ect. Lee would’ve wanted Longstreet to take initiative and go around the rocky terrain. Men in the field recall walking 4 miles to *get* 1. Hood recalls and begs Longstreet to let him go around but Longstreet basically brooding says no follow through with the lines with and go dead ahead. So on the third day when Longstreet begs to go around potentially or not attack at all Lee punishes him kind of into attacking a certain way and takes away his opportunity to use initiative. When Lee gave core commanders power to do what Hood requested the prior day. But by taking that away from Hood - Lee takes it from Longstreet. Lee likely did the same thing to Jeb. A bloody form of discipline.

[@michaelmckinnon1591]

This series of scenes was taken from history, James Longstreet understood the mathematics of the charge

[@daniellee8162]

When technical analysis started to bloom lol. Just a joke, I'm sure math was used in a strategy.

[@markanthonyrosalesbarrient4355]

"And those are Hancock's boys and they're badasses and they will kick our asses Sir" 😅✌

[@cristianghiliciuc6948]

30 years from this great movie,and 160 from theese great events,and those fine and great men!

[@xanderluv]

Longstreet should have picked a tree in the woods to talk to for those 3 days

[@870Rem12gauge]

Lee may have suffered a mild stroke on the 2nd day. He was not himself and ignored advice from his closest officers, especially Longstreet.

[@acatwood11]

Lee was overconfident after a string of victories against the Union, especially Chancellorsville.

[@xanderluv]

Most likely high on cocaine.

[@linusherr8257]

xanderluv What does this mean

[@xanderluv]

Linus Herr He would have had a better chance of getting his plan approved

[@markbrandis5684]

these actors are so amazing!

[@bcask61]

It’s amazing what you can convince yourself of, even if your experience and intellect tells you otherwise.

[@dragon0fly749]

Understated comment

[@dragon0fly749]

Yup

[@anotherbutt4chair454]

As a student of history and veteran these presentations of historical military events of those that were there before us, is appreciated and in todays world where we can learn a thing or two from the past. I believe we currently have a president that is a danger to our republic. I hope I’m wrong.

[@McRocket]

What a strange predicament for Longstreet. A superior whom you know and have (apparently) tremendous respect for... ...whom has mostly conducted his men brilliantly. But now? You know he is about to make a GIGANTIC mistake. And you CANNOT stop him. If you hated him? Or he was an idiot? It would be easier...more straightforward. But this? Longstreet must have been in terrible turmoil.

[@Johnchuk3]

I visited the field those guys had to cover under constant artillery, and it was probably the saddest monument to a single act of bravery I've ever seen. Its a huge long slope upward in the july sun with nowhere to go and nothing to hide behind. It just stares back at you, and its so damn quiet.

[@univac7677]

Agreed. Walking out of the woods into that upward sloping ground that was well defended had to be the worse.

[@markproulx1472]

I agree. Even though I have visited the site, I still cannot imagine how awful it must have been to be part of the charge.

[@Rockhound6165]

I was just there last week and I'm not ashamed to say that I was moved to tears standing and looking at those battlefields. It was an honor to even look at them.

[@kbholla]

Johnchuk I've been there too. Pretty solemn.

[@happilyretiredmark2964]

Brave men for sure! Long live Dixie. Kind of glad they can't see all the crap we have to put up with now in this country.

[@davelewis9795]

All these people were mad because LOngstreet became a Republican after the war and worked for the Grant Administration.

[@ARDRI2009]

He also became a Catholic which did not go down well in some parts of the old south, and some other parts of the country.

[@davidrodgersNJ]

Lee makes me think of Yamato: a brilliant leader with a hopeless cause.

[@Emanresuadeen]

Lee makes me think of Yamato too. But because while both were epic blunderers, not geniuses, both were enshrined, post war, as face saving symbols.

[@dardalion3199]

@@Emanresuadeen not the first 2 years he didn't blunder. But you are both correct

[@joshuadesautels]

You mean Yamamoto. But yes. Or Rommel.

[@wildfire9280]

You could almost say his cause was… lost?

[@LKaramazov]

Never gets old!

[@hhale]

While Lee was studying Napoleon, he forgot to study something called "interior lines". Attacking a numerically superior foe that has the benefit of interior lines is a desperate gamble and Longstreet knew it. Shelby Foote said it best when he said that "Gettysburg was the price the South paid for having Robert E. Lee as commander."

[@5678sothourn]

He did understand interior lines. He was a top graduate of west point. He just thought he could overwhelm the outside defenses faster than a response

[@hhale]

@@5678sothourn My observation was one out of frustration of seeing something so obvious get ignored. Lee seemed obsessed with winning the war on this ground, when this ground wasn't to his advantage. I liken it to a dog that has grabbed hold of a toy and won't let go. Compare with Grant, who in the Wilderness campaign, would get stymied, and simply pull out and continue to advance toward Richmond, not continue to assault Lee's army in the same spot.

[@SantomPh]

Napoleon's power came from cavalry and infantry tactics. Despite being an artillery officer himself, Napoleon rarely valued artillery in his strategies. Virtually none of his active Marshals had artillery background, they were virtually all cavalry commanders or staff officers

[@GN-jn1ty]

Marin Sheen was a bit of amazing casting - he was so good in this role.

[@ribonucleic]

Hard to imagine his version of Lee having slaves whipped and brined.

[@MrCrazychristian86]

I've been to Gettysburg four times in my young life and every time I go, there is something new I learn.

[@SurfingBullDog]

“There is no one I trust more.” Emotional manipulation by Lee.

[@IrishCarney]

Harsh. remember Longstreet was running himself down just prior. one thing a commander must do is encourage his men to believe in themselves. And Lee wasn't lying - after all, he had already picked Longstreet to lead the attack he felt would decide the war. If there were another man Lee trusted more, Lee would have picked that other man instead. ("Ahem..") Stonewall, you're a rotting corpse. Shamble back to your grave before you scare the men. ("Awww" -- shuffle shuffle)

[@daniellee8162]

@@IrishCarney Stonewall...how could you of all possibly ways of getting killed, die like that?

[@jbs9373]

General Longstreet was an excellent General and a conscientious man. After the war, his reputation in the South further suffered when he led African-American militia against the anti-Reconstruction White League at the Battle of Liberty Place in 1874. Not all confederates were white supremacist. He was a very good man and his memory should not be forgotten.

[@johnkloosterman6277]

There is an astonishing lack of Longstreet statues, despite his important role in the war, which undermines the argument that the statues are about remembering the war and not about remembering racism.

[@markwatson3135]

I visited Gettysburg right after seeing this movie. I did an interpretive walk of Pickett’s charge. We formed up our lines and headed across. Never felt so open with no protection. We bogged down at the fence, and knowing what was to come for the confederate soldiers. I had to respect them for what they did. I can’t respect the motives of the southern officials, but I can respect the courage of the soldiers who fought

[@nickroberts-xf7oq]

"I've always been cautious...very cautious." 😂

[@markbrandis5684]

brilliant actors!

[@davidharrison6615]

this was very well made . fantastic to watch over and over . also so very sad and tragic . rip all involved.

[@JohnnyCBCS]

great acting, Mr Sheen, your son would definitely label it WINNING

[@Dirk80241]

What are you thinking, general?’ ‘I have already told you what I think.’

[@gonzaleo]

"Those are Hancock's boys".

[@maxemomaxemo6250]

All GREAT GENERALS....make trouble mistakes ,that cost brave young men there lives.

[@douglaslally156]

"Sir. If we CAN take that ridge.." "We can. And we will." Survey says...

[@odysseusrex5908]

I've always wondered what Longstreet really wanted to ask, "If we CAN take that ridge," . . . what?

[@mehulvarshney3124]

How can we destroy the Yankees. Once we break the center, if we break the center they will just use their larger force to counter attack and crush us. And even if they retreat we would be left with a town of no military significance, while they hold the strategic objectives. This is what Longstreet was about to say I believe.

[@greglaplante7593]

They did take it but was not strong enough to hold it .

[@rawfoodwriter]

@@greglaplante7593 Hell yeah they did. Rebel spirit. It wasnt about slavery for them, it was about freedom

[@stevestringer7351]

Thank you for sharing this video. It is so important to keep history alive and in front of us so that we, hopefully, don't repeat it. We can honor those that fought so well and bravely without taking up their cause. They did what they thought best at the time. No sdier their took their duty lightly..... it was life and death for them.

[@jaymemangano1154]

God go with you!

[@oldsouth31]

Longstreet wanted no part of this - he knew this was suicide from the get-go.

[@deafsmith1006]

I've been to Gettysburg. It was WAY FAR to that ridge. Bunching up men and letting them walk a mile under fire was suicide. Brave but still suicide. Like the Japanese and their Banzai charges.

[@Tina06019]

I stood there at Gettysburg and even I knew G-d himself could not have gotten those Southern soldiers across that field and up that hill even if He had wanted to. It was insanely crazy. All I could think was "What was General Lee thinking?" I am glad slavery was abolished, very, very glad, yet my heart aches for all the blood and pain in that field.

[@karnevalsjeck1984]

If the confederate artillery barage had done enough Damage, it could have been a successful charge.

[@TorontoJediMaster]

Tina I suspect that Lee had seen his army pull off amazing victories before. He simply felt that they could do it again. I think he allowed the confidence in his men to override his good sense.

[@TorontoJediMaster]

oldsouth 31 Longstreet had commanded the defense at Fredericksburg, where the Confederates had the stone wall to give them shelter. So, he fully understood the tactical advantage the Union troops now had. Plus, he could calculate the rate of casualties against the distance to go once Pickett's men moved out into open ground. He simply realized that by the time they reached the wall, there'd be few left -definitely not enough to defeat the Union men defending it.

[@Thunkful2]

I'm thinking that Lee lost his mind at Gettysburg; Longstreet was right. Maybe the Lord blinded Lee's senses on that day. IMHO.

[@ivansanta-maria1328]

I agree maybe he did lose his mind when he ordered that attack that attack was ridiculous it was suicide I personally would have maneuvered my Army out of the area and live to fight another day

[@bcask61]

I disagree. Lee was thinking strategically, not tactically. He knew he needed the war to be over in 1863 if the South were to be able to receive favorable terms. He recognized that as the war dragged on, his side grew weaker and the Union side stronger by the day. When you are fighting a lost cause, you are often compelled to take the longest of chances.

[@ivansanta-maria1328]

@@bcask61 Maybe I personally would have kept my Army intact and try to outmaneuver them and catch them somewhere else that was just a Slaughter

[@joshuadesautels]

Actually, Lee had recently had heart problems, which it has been suggested may indeed have affected his judgment.

[@cunn9305]

Stars in their courses ...

[@amaree9732]

My great grandfather caught a rifle ball at Gettysburg. It rolled off the counter at the giftshop.

[@brettfavreify]

I'm no Civil War scholar but Lee must have been such an audacious commander that he felt his army could lick anyone in front of him, regardless of the odds or terrain. Maybe that was his ultimate failing in this one epic moment.

[@markmerzweiler832]

He had beaten the odds many times in the past...but this time he was asking too much.

[@xTheGamingGhostx]

These were classic Napoleonic tactics: strike at the flanks to draw troops away from the center, then strike at the cannibalized center. Problem for Lee was, Union Gen. Meade knew Lee would try this and left his center strong. Also, civil war rifles were more accurate at distance than the muskets of Napoleon’s day. Back then, columns of troops could get much closer to their enemy before taking effective fire, whereas Lee’s troops took effective fire almost immediately after starting their assault. Basically, Lee was trusting in tactics that had worked for 50 years, but did not account for improvements in tech or a commander in Meade who could read him like a book.

[@brittlyle3523]

More like a flawed commander to take on such an impossible feat and in the process ignore a General (Longstreet) who had seen it all happen in reverse.

[@christopherheadrick8410]

God's and generals

[@maulporphy4399]

My ancestors fought at Gettysburg--- Confederates, two brothers from Georgia. One of them killed in action, the other wounded through the eye. I have read some of his letters home from a hospital bed. What impressed me was how articulate they are, and how devout--- every other sentence: "...if god wills it," and "...may the Lord bring it to pass," etc. 700-850,000 dead on both sides. What a terrible thing civil war is.

[@bruceborneman]

I still cannot fathom why Lee thought that was a good idea. He basically asked all of his ranks to commit assisted suicide

[@michaeltalley51]

The insanity of using Napoleonic tactics after the weapons had made that strategy obsolete. Approximately 80 years later, they did the same thing at Normandy, but at least then they understood that they had to keep throwing men at the buzz saw until they overwhelmed them.

[@petersampson5202]

GOD BLESS MY AWESOME FRIEND MOCTESUMA ESPARZA. I AM SO VERY PROUD OF YOU AND SO VERY HAPPY FOR YOU MR. ESPARZA. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

[@dalesimons1966]

Even though Lee was a great general this was probably his greatest and most costly error of the war. Longstreet knew the position that they were in and given the chance he would have retreated to fight another day. Fortunately for the Union and history Lee’s pride won, this massive charge failed and the confederate army was never the same. This charge was the beginning of the end.

[@markmerzweiler832]

I really think Lee, knew that this was the high point of the confederacy and believed that if they didn't land a knock out punch right then and there - the material supremacy of the North would overwhelm them. I always believed Longstreet's idea of finding a hill and waiting was idiotic. You don't go into enemy territory an enemy who has more men and more guns and can resupply much faster than you and then hang around.

[@kennethcalvert6802]

I’ve stood at the stone wall and looked across the field where the confederates had to advance and I can honestly say, only a pigheaded idiot with his head so far up his ass he could see what he had for breakfast would order that assault!

[@SoulKiller7Eternal]

​@@kennethcalvert6802 I believe if he had put 2 more division in to the attack, they could've made it. The first 3 divisions would've be beaten & bloodied, and hit by the musket fire from the federal lines...but the other 2 (coming in behind them) would be fresher, more in formation & manpower and ability to perform with their command still intact. 25000 men could've broken the federal lines...but then you face the incoming reserves of the 2nd & 5th Corp and some elements of the 1st Corp. Remember, the Black Hat boys are at Culp's Hill...and they could've been moved in needed...and if they had been to counter a charge like, even decimated as they were, they would've made a valiant hold. Even the shredded Irish Brigade saw action at Gettysburg...an entire brigade...about 500 strong in total...marched into history that day. Pushed back superior rebel forces then retreated due to losses.

[@marknewton6984]

That and Stonewall's death.

[@gregorylumban-gaol3889]

There would’ve been monuments to Longstreet and his story studied in K-12 if he had chosen to stay with the Union.

[@davidquintana2918]

Longstreet probably knew this was a risk not worth taking. fight another day I suppose.

[@johnhaggerty1907]

Longstreet knew that was insane to send men across that open field to their deaths.

[@Zutakameku1]

Longstreet did everything he could to stop it from happening

[@robert33112]

Great mens ego's kill alot men with such pride !

[@christopherfreeman9726]

I watched tis film for the first time a few weeks ago, Picketts charge and Chamberlains charge are awesome examples of bravery by the Northern and Southern soldier's.

[@larry1824]

Both actors superb

[@bayarsejar5831]

It just shows how much Longstreet didn’t want to attack that he tried to give command to someone else.

[@johnkrausse8672]

The Battle of Gettysburg was actually won on the first day and the second days fighting the third day was an exercise in futility General buford's heroics and general Ewells failure to take the Heights cost of the Confederacy dearly. Then Chamberlain's charge on Little Round Top pretty much sealed the Fate of the Battle of Gettysburg.

[@thomassnapp1341]

Longstreet has been criticized for years for his delay in engaging the union army at Gettysburg. He understood that an attack on the heights that the union army held would be futile. But his suggestion to Lee that the army of Northern Virgina be "redeployed" and march on Washington was wise. Mead would have had no option but to follow them and then, they could turn and engage Mead on ground of their own choosing.. This was undoubtedly the wisest choice under the circumstances.

[@aldousjosea.castro1887]

+Thomas Snapp Except Meade won't do that. Meade was determined to fight a defensive battle. Marching on Washington would only mean the Rebels would be caught between Washington the Meade.

[@roguishpaladin]

The politicians wouldn't let Meade allow Longstreet access to Washington. He'd either be forced to attack or else be cashiered for a general who would attack. Plus, holding Washington just might compel the US to allow the rebels to negotiate a peace.

[@thomassnapp1341]

No. The Confederate Army would have been in FRONT of Mead on the way to Washington. Mead and the Union Army would have been coming up behind, chasing the Confederate Army on the way to Washington.

[@thomassnapp1341]

The "politicians" wouldn't have had much say in the matter. If the Confederate Army pulled out of Gettysburg and moved on Washington, "double-time", Mead would have had to chase them. The Confederate Army would have been hours ahead of them when they finally realized what was going on.

[@thomassnapp1341]

No "cake walk" but a pretty easy assault with the entire Confederate Army.

[@richmondmemedepot7180]

The usual saluting 'etiquette' if you will, is that the superior salutes first, then the subordinate. Notice how Longstreet, the subordinate, saluted first - then Lee. A sign of great respect

[@manilajohn0182]

You have that backwards. The subordinate salutes the superior first, and holds the salute. The superior then returns the salute. After- and only after- the superior returns the salute and has dropped his arm, does the subordinate drop his arm.

[@harleymccartney7339]

Never can get over how a military genius like Lee suddenly went dumb in this instance. As if it was meant to be.

[@Kitchdmn3]

“What are you thinking General?”... umm he pretty much already laid that out for you....

[@daniellee8162]

Lee was hoping he would say something different so he could feel better about his decision.

[@icemanofsc]

The problem is that the tactics had changed. During the Napoleonic wars the advantage lay with the attacker not the defender. The scene alludes to this by Lee's reference to Napoleon. This remained true for the first half of the Civil War. Lee was very much like Napoleon in that he rolled the dice taking chances. But by Gettysburg the situation had changed. New weapons and technology along with new tactics gave the advantage to the defender. Longstreet saw this at Fredericksburg and understood

[@GeorgeVreelandHill]

Thank you for this.

[@bobbyricigliano2799]

If only Robert E. Lee could travel forward through time and consult with the youtube peanut gallery of basement dwelling amateur military tacticians, he could have carried the day at Gettysburg.

[@lucius1976]

+Bobby Ricigliano Or he could have read Sun Tzu

[@christinedavis2476]

+Bobby Ricigliano - I'm not sure that General Lee didn't know that Longstreet was correct. Lee knew that "we can not always expect to win victories", and Lee, more than anyone, knew that the Confederacy could not win militarily.

[@Darthbelal]

+Bobby Ricigliano I get kinda annoyed when people start saying the Lee screwed up at Gettysburg and he should've done this or that. In the end, Lee EARNED the respect of love of his men and of the Confederacy and very, very few people could match that kind of leadership.

[@Retsler54]

+lucius1976 I guess he had done that.

[@thomassaucier3677]

This is gold

[@heihei3453]

I do like the Lost Causers who blame everything on Longstreet. Even one of the Park Rangers at Gettysburg pulled the whole "Longstreet's fault" argument.

[@nunyabizness9045]

fault should go to Heth

[@OroborusFMA]

Come on, don't sugar coat it!

[@nunyabizness9045]

+nathanieldayspring00 Heth was ordered not to engage but he did. So it was his fault

[@nunyabizness9045]

+nathanieldayspring00 the shoes in Gettysburg was a myth. General Ewell traveled thorough there a few days earlier.

[@nunyabizness9045]

+nathanieldayspring00 There was no mention of shoes having anything to do with the Battle of Gettysburg until 14 years after it happened. In 1877, Confederate General Henry Heth wrote, “Hearing that a supply of shoes was to be obtained in Gettysburg, eight miles distant from Cashtown, and greatly needing shoes for my men, I directed General Pettigrew to go to Gettysburg and get these supplies.” Problem is, there were no shoe factories anywhere near Gettysburg in 1863. If there were General Ewell would have plundered it a day earlier. Roads took the armies to Gettysburg. It was difficult to travel through south central Pennsylvania without passing through Gettysburg.

[@joesnow3984]

"No 15,000 men ever made can take that ridge!". Sometimes you just have to face reality, which in this case, Lee could not.

[@user-hi6ww9gp6b]

Its alway good to learn front the mistakes of yesterday.

[@flyboy7588]

I lost all respect for Lee when he insisted on that suicidal attack. His ego cost thosands of good men their lives.

[@rationalconservative386]

You're misunderstanding of this battle is so obvious.

[@flyboy7588]

@@rationalconservative386 Please, I'm always looking to learn. How so? do you think Lee actually believed in his heart that this frontal assault across a mile of open field would succeed????

[@i.m.9918]

No. They were militarily courageous men. But you cannot say 'good men'. Good men show moral courage. They resist enslaving (or supporting slavery) of their fellow American citizens, selling of American children, and the permission to serially rape human 'property'. And they resist repudiating their god's dictates, so much that His historical text actually features the importance of humanity escaping slavery. No. No. You cannot distill from this... 'good men'.

[@drumking241]

wow!!!!! for your dad to actually talk to Longstreet! what an honor, i would kill to talk to any of the commanders, i, as will endless others, will always rack thier mind on why Lee ignored Longstreets andice, when he knew better the battle of Fredricskburg was almost the same thing reversed! - i live in Paulding Co GA, site of the battle of Dallas, New Hope, and Picketts Mill

[@IrishCarney]

The Southerners truly believed they were tougher. They saw themselves as outdoorsmen, hunters - both officers and men, while they saw the Northerners as soft, shopkeepers and indoor workers. There was some truth in that as the war started, but their attitudes did not shift to catch up to the reality of the North improving.

[@CorekBleedingHollow]

Lee was the Pride and Morale of the army but Longstreet was the Brains of the army.

[@Kruezoraxe]

Such a heartbreaking moment for Longstreet

[@neweddard9358]

There is no one I trust more. Sir, We can't take that ridge. Naah, I don't trust your opinion on that one.

[@teller1290]

Lee was trapped. Due to sloppy conduct by inexperienced and new III Corps commander, Ewell, and usually very reliable Stuart, Lee had no "eyes" and got snared in a battle before he was ready. Then Ewell took easy way out and failed to make final push for Culp's Hill - Cemetery Ridge complex, leaving Union army in strong position to bring up rest of army (22,000 men greater + artillery advantage, shorter supply lines) that night.

[@rawfoodwriter]

@@teller1290 Jackson would have taken Culp's Hill.

[@teller1290]

@@rawfoodwriter then Meade falls back forcing Lee to stretch supply lines even further, as Meade searched for better ground. Maybe Lee could've then forced him into disadvantaged ground...but we don't know. It would be an interesting study to ponder where Meade would've headed and where the two armies might've met the second time.

[@rawfoodwriter]

@@teller1290 Agreed. Perhaps York, PA. Lee really should have went on the move to the right after the first day. Between cautious mead and the enemies capital of D.C. is a very strong move imo

[@martinhaigh8345]

After his stunning victory at Chancellorsville, where he attacked and defeated a massively larger force, Lee believed that he and his army were capable of anything by sheer strength of will. One important difference from Chancellorsville - no Stonewall Jackson. I think that Jackson would have said much the same as Longstreet - he was always looking for a flanking movement - but Lee would have been more inclined to listen.

[@LordZontar]

Another important difference --- Joe Hooker was out and the far more competent George Meade was in as commander of the Army of the Potomac. The South's main advantage over that army was no more.

[@marknewton6984]

Stonewall would have taken Cemetery and Culp's Hills. Be thankful he was not there.

[@martinhaigh8345]

@@marknewton6984 Absolutely, Jackson would have disregarded the "if practicable" rider in Lee's order to take Culp's Hill and just taken the damn hill, making it a very different battle.

[@bobbailey2587]

Longstreet and Jackson could have talked lee out of his plans. It would have taken both of them to do so not one or the other. I don't think Jackson would have done much better with out Longstreet on his side

[@marknewton6984]

@@bobbailey2587 Good points. I would still rather have Stonewall on my side. Longstreet's a media darling since the movie but really he was slow.

[@mikematthews31]

I've read that it was only after the war that Gettysburg was claimed to be a union victory. The Southern papers all claimed victory for the South, claiming that after capturing the town and winning the battle the first day, they tried for two days to remove the union army from the heights, before withdrawing to return to Virginia being short of supplies.

[@misterjag]

Longstreet's most controversial service was at the Battle of Gettysburg in July 1863, where he openly disagreed with General Lee on the tactics to be employed and reluctantly supervised several attacks on Union forces, including the disastrous Pickett's Charge.... He enjoyed a successful post-war career working for the U.S. government as a diplomat, civil servant, and administrator. His conversion to the Republican Party and his cooperation with his old friend, President Ulysses S. Grant, as well as critical comments he wrote in his memoirs about General Lee's wartime performance, made him anathema to many of his former Confederate colleagues. ...Authors of the Lost Cause movement focused on Longstreet's actions at Gettysburg as a primary reason for the Confederacy's loss of the war.

[@eNosArmory]

If there are 2 legacies left by Longstreet it is that we was a favorite Lieutenant of Gen Lee... and he had a propensity to scapegoat, bicker and blame others for his shortcomings. Gettysburg was not the only campaign he bickered with his Generals. He did after Seven Pines and his Knoxville campaign. In fall of 1863 Longstreet was given independent command to retake knoxville... and it was a disaster. He made unimaginative frontal assaults against Union positions and caused heavy casualties of his command. He bickered with his generals and placed Gen McClaws under arrest when they objected to his frontal attacks. Even though he gained a reputation as a defensive minded genius after the war... but he was a General that preferred frontal attacks in his own command in the Knoxville campaign and his heavy hitting attacks under Lee and Bragg. After his failure at knoxville he was not given independent command again and eventually returned to Lee's command. By far Longstreet's most controversial and telling episode was the Fall of 1863 Knoxville Campaign because it reveals his preference of frontal attacks and his propensity to bicker with others in command.

[@internetenjoyer1044]

love that this film doesnt spoonfeed you a "this is so stooopid" narrative like most military ilms do. they have both men disagreeing and giving plausible reasons for their view. we know whats about to happen, we know Lee is wrong, but he has a reason behind his mistake

[@jed4426]

It's very weird terrain. It's so hard to judge distance. I've been there several times. No wonder why the CSA artillery over shot. There's slumps and it's just impossible to judge

[@teller1290]

And in the days of no smokeless powder, on hot, still July day, tough to see where shells landing.

[@finrodbrs]

It was worse than that. The Confederate munitions plants weren't standardized like the Union ones. Exploding shells of that time used fuses. The Army of Northern Virginia were used to using ammo from Richmond's Tredegar Iron Works, but an accident took the Works down several months before and they were now using ammo from South Carolina which had slower burning fuses. So, for instance, if you set a shell for a 4-second fuse, it would explode after 5 seconds. And when your shells are traveling several hundred yards per second that makes a big difference.

[@joshuadesautels]

Actually, the Confederate artillery overshot because their shells had defective fuses. Also, the Union gunners deliberately had some of their guns cease firing to fool the Confederates into THINKING that they were out of action.

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

Pennsylvania has way more glacial rubble than Virginia and makes the local topography deceptive and "weird". Devil's Den is a perfect example. You don't even see it 'till you're on top of it.

[@jammer3618]

The simple truth is unavoidable. Longstreet was right.

[@markmerzweiler909]

I don't know. You can't hang around in the enemies rear who has a greater force and can resupply faster than you can. They either had to attack quickly or go home.

[@user-zs7eb5uc9r]

Longstreet was correct. Charge was damn crazy thing. Too bold. Gen Lee was gone too far.

[@henry7696]

@@markmerzweiler909 no, not necessarily home. as discussed elsewhere in the film and by longstreet, if they had disengaged and moved ahead of the union army closer and closer to washington, meade wouldve been forced to make a reckless attack on lees army at some other ground, probably of lees choosing. whether their army wouldve been destroyed enough for lee to continue onto washington OR to push for a peace treaty is a different matter, but lee fell victim to sunk cost fallacy...he believed the failed attacks on the 2nd day required an even riskier attack in order to make the losses worth it...he didnt consider the fact they would fail the attack spectacularly and achieve literally nothing with pickets charge. lee got impatient and believed he could destroy the ENTIRE federal army in 1 battle and end the war, and that cost the south

[@markmerzweiler909]

@@henry7696 Well, I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree. Washington was far too heavily fortified for a direct assault. Now, maybe they might have been able to disengage and then move off, but Meade with a larger army would have been in pursuit which makes them vulnerable to being caught in the open. Also, to me the idea of just hiding on a hill is simply ridiculous. That would allow the Union with its superior army to cut Lee off from it's supply line. Lee was right about one thing in the movie. The North was being continually reinforced while they were not. The more time Lee spent in Pennsylvania, the more scales were going to tip. In fact shortly after Gettysburg was over, Meade received an additional 20,000 men. I do think Lee wanted a decisive victory right then and there, because he knew that the South would lose a war of attrition. . . which they eventually did. After the victories of Chancellorsville and Fredricksberg, he had no greater opportunity to pull off the impossible. So, he went for the knockout punch and was lucky his army wasn't destroyed. If Grant were in charge, he wouldn't have allowed Lee to retire back to Virgina.

[@livelikeus4980]

Damn dude- spoiler alert or something ...!!for the Love of the Confederacy!

[@bobbylee2853]

General tremble!!!!! I’m imagining Don Knots.

[@robertschmidt7879]

I have half a wall full of civil war and military war history books. General Longstreet had two choices. Yes sir, or please accept my resignation

[@disco07]

General Longstreet, god go with you cause I wont

[@samoramachel55]

This battle was studied from every angle by every major Army and the lesson learned is some battles you don't fight even if you think you can win..it wasn't Lee's fault, nor Longstreet, but it was Longstreet's duty to share with his commander his view - don't believe me - read Longstreet's Biography...great read...

[@fordpopular8792]

One of my favourite films, others are, In the Heat of the Night,

[@Eliot17]

General Lee went full Stannis attacking winterfell here!!!!!!

[@EtzEchad]

It's hard to believe that Lee didn't know that this charge was doomed. It seems more reasonable that he was thinking of doing it to save face rather than thinking it really would succeed.

[@scipio8866]

So you think he thought he could save face by losing?

[@EtzEchad]

@@scipio8866 Possibly, or, more likely, he made a horrible misjudgment. It’s also possible that he thought that he had virtually no chance of winning, but he thought that if they didn’t win on that day, they would lose the war.

[@rc59191]

@@scipio8866 he could of saved face by returning home with his army intact. All those Soldier's and Officer's he lost could of possibly been used to retake Vicksburg.

[@TheRevanchrist]

For all the flak Grant got for being called "a butcher" by south propaganda, Lee was the real butcher in this battle. sending his men in costly attacks, foolishly believing in "southern spirit" would carry the day rather than actual battle tactics.

[@SoulKiller7Eternal]

No, Lee just made a costly mistake. Grant was a straight up butcher. Grant would throw men into the field until he won...Lee worked with the terrain, using it to help or hinder when needed. Sherman was much superior, Thomas, Hancock...Meade even. Any of those generals could've done better.

[@SantomPh]

@@SoulKiller7Eternal Grant had a ton of men more than Grant did. Also, he didn't really start stacking up his men until the Overland Campaign, where Lee and his men fought ten times harder and more brutally. Grant's biggest victories, Shiloh and Vicksburg had far lower average casualties than we think as the Confederates withdrew further and further out. Overall Grant did lose more men than Lee, but also won more battles. Were he cautious and pondering like McClellan he would really be a butcher

[@markmerzweiler909]

I think Lee knew summer 1863 was the highpoint. He probably knew things would be going against him from then on. Vicksburg was about to fall, the Union blockade was getting more effective everyday . . . I'm sure he thought - I need to go for the knockout punch now!

[@carlthornton3076]

Very Good!.