DayStar Genesis MP: The Crazy Powerful 90s Mac Clone!

[@LGR]

Good grief, what a monster for its day. When you removed the heatsink on that processor board 😮

[@masterchief342]

Literally just left your Metalfish Y2 video. What screensaver was that, btw? It looked cool and meshed so well with the tank/case.

[@tarstarkusz]

Badly overpriced and slow. The Mac clones were not as innovative as people think. ALL of them used Apple motherboards. It lacked the flexibility of a PC clone and kept prices high compared to similarly outfitted PCs.

[@agenericaccount3935]

@@tarstarkusz neato.

[@starkmouth]

@@masterchief342 Serene scene Marine Aquarium 3

[@micaelsilva]

And no foam peanuts

[@pineapplego4588]

This is a remarkably accurate summary of the history of the Genesis MP. I wrote most of that multiprocessing software for Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects. I also wrote or helped with multiprocessing software for Strata 3D and Quicktime. I wouldn’t trade what Jobs accomplished to have those clone years back, but they were amazing times, some of the best of my life. Excellent work!

[@david.mcmahan]

I'm trying to remember. Was there a Mac-based RIP that also got the MP support?

[@pineapplego4588]

I am not sure what RIP is.

[@david.mcmahan]

Sorry, Raster Image Processor. I thought since it sounds like you dealt with imaging apps at the time, you might have been aware. Typically, a RIP would have been on Unix or proprietary workstation (or maybe NT). I remember at least a crappy RIP on a Mac back then. But I can’t remember if there were better ones. Anyway, would have been another great use for the Genesis MP, if there was (and a driver for it).

[@JeffGeerling]

02:08 - A print shop in St. Louis, my hometown! Glad to see this beastly machine finding new life, or at least a documentary of its old life. It was a strange few years during the clone era-I remember how almost all the clones were better values than Apple's own hardware at the time.

[@TheDruboni]

yeah despite all of the clones i remember my family picking up a power mac 7300/200 that was an awesome machine.

[@JeffGeerling]

@@TheDruboni My family had a Performa 6360 during that era, and I was using a hand-me-down 630cd. I saved up a while and jumped up to my first new Mac, a Yosemite G3, and that computer blew me away at the time! If the clones had persisted, it would've been interesting to see what they could've done hardware-wise with OSX finally supporting all the nice things we'd always wanted.

[@nickwallette6201]

Hehe... you don't say. It's cheaper to build a machine with an existing architectural blueprint and the OS already written for it, eh? ;-)

[@forbiddenera]

Pretty much was the same for most of the Intel era except it want "leegull" hackintosh

[@SHADOSTRYKR]

I thought “oh great another beige tower” but that ended up being a really fascinating video. Imagine if Mac OS were licensed to third parties today. It’s impossible to imagine yet it happened in the 90s

[@kasimirdenhertog3516]

Same here, the video title doesn't really do it justice, it's about much more than just this computer.

[@IgnatSolovey]

That BeOS teaser is intriguing. A good long video would be much appreciated. I, ahem, tried to try it in 1999 if my memory serves, but I remember it having rather specific h/w requirements when it came to PC. While it sorta ran, it didn't fancy my Intel Atlanta motherboard, a Celeron 333, SB AWE64 sound and Matrox Millennium graphics card, and had rather lackluster software support.

[@mattsword41]

I remember getting BeOE 5 PE on a cover disc - tried it a bit but hobbled by little software support

[@leandrocosta3709]

It did have very very very specific hardware requirements for PC. I had 4.5 and 5.0. Loved the OS like no other, but before buying anything for my computer, I did have to take a very careful look at a list of supported hardware. At the time I used BeOS for everything, except gaming. Dual boot configuration was a no brainer, so I shared my hard drives with Windoze.

[@KurtMurrayJr]

Haiku OS is the contemporary descendant of BeOS. Sadly, other than running on new hardware, not much is different than the BeOS I used to run on my PowerMac back in the 90s.

[@CodingItWrong]

I'd love to see TDNC's take on BeOS too! I just bought a Power Mac 8500 and was able to get BeOS running just fine. It's interesting to think what might have been if it had taken off.

[@Choralone422]

I remember reading about that machine in magazines and marveling at the idea of 4 CPUs working together. It's very cool to see one in this video! The Mac clone days in the mid 90's were the only time I was really interested in diving into the Mac world. I always love to see PCs and Macs alike from the 90's since that's when I got into the world of IT, personally in the early 90s and professionally in 98.

[@Angelgreat]

I'm sorry that you had to disassemble your Power Macintosh 9500 for this video.

[@headwerkn]

Oh Lordy how the x500 cases sucked…

[@JohnWDisco]

Yea but there are people, like myself, who like dismantling items. The only reason is to understand how it functions. 😏

[@TrackZero]

That BeOS tease at the end, so good. I eagerly await the follow up video.

[@memsom]

Came here to request a BeOS video, then at the last moment saw the tease 😂 I own a 9500 MP model, (yes the plastics are basically falling apart,) and I love that the Genesis MP has finally got some recognition.

[@cylack]

I remember this time of dysfunction at Apple well. I had a PowerMac 8500 in college and thought about getting a clone for my next computer but then Apple killed off the clones when Jobs came on board. They really struggled with the next gen OS. A lot of people thought they would go with BeOS but surprised by buying out Next. No one could have imagined Apple would become the world's largest company by market cap when it was teetering on bankruptcy in the late 90s.

[@rimbaud0000]

Yep, absolutely all over the place. Classic MacOS was just hopelessly out of date at that point

[@JDW-]

Great overview of the Genesis MP, Colin! 👍

[@SwimmingintheDeep]

I was actually the main account rep for Daystar Digital's PR firm and I wrote the press release and launched this product to the media and analyst community. The company was based in a former boot factory in Flowery Branch, GA, north of Atlanta.

[@keithyakouboff8755]

And it sucks that you folks went belly-up. Honestly, that computer looks like it could kick a little butt *today*.

[@VEN0M415]

These info-dives into device history are so enjoyable, thanks for all the effort you put into these calming and chill deep dives!

[@SteveAbrahall]

Back in the day I was working as an apple tech and I got a call from a young designer whos company had just brought her a top of the line Genesis MP.... she was one very happy camper!

[@andyzib]

“Faster performance directly correlated to improved productivity” Back in the early to mid 2000s I worked for a printing company that did large format. Our 3D specialists were quirky guys that worked third shift. They would do some work, set it to render, and move to another Mac to do some work and set it to rendering. They cranked out our most profitable work and because they could take over multiple workstations on 3rd shift they cranked out a lot of work. And they enjoyed working 3rd shift as there was nobody there to interrupt them.

[@chrismv102]

I had a PM 9600. It along with the 9500 were the only PowerPC macs certified for Avid Media Composer and Film Composer. In fact I was in Boston one day and and I saw several 9600's in a dumpster outside of Harvard Medical School. I grabbed two of them. Still have one. It has Daystar G4 upgrade processor in it.

[@headwerkn]

Wow, I’d long forgotten Daystar did a quad 604. I had a PowerMac 9600/200MP which was Apple’s top banana workstation before the G3 era. Was a beast of a production system though as you stated, only really in Photoshop (which I mostly lived in). As cool as the dual 604s were, a G4/350 upgrade card completely transformed the machine. With 1.5Gb of RAM, about 5 internal SCSI drives and twin graphics cards I was using that machine until about 2004.

[@BUF-vr5cr]

Ditto!

[@chloeleedow7250]

Wow some nostalga from my childhood, I was well below working age but was obsessed with apple, we had a mac Performa power pc and my dad would always buy me mac world magazines to read. The 90s were awesome. Great video! ❤️

[@PotatoFi]

What an awesome machine. I'd never heard of the Genesis MP, and was surprised to see that it shares a motherboard with the Power Macintosh 9500, of which I have several in my garage awaiting shipping to new owners. A nightmare to work on, those are... just getting the batteries out was a very risky chore.

[@noemedmedia]

I enjoyed this video A LOT! True original piece of tech history, supported by pics and articles from the time. I learned a lot!

[@movax20h]

9:00 A bit weird it was called this motherboard Tsunami. Because in 1998 DEC / Compaq, named one of their workstation / server platforms (i.e. Compaq AlphaStation XP1000) Tsunami too.

[@HrLBolle]

11:36 makes me wonder if Daystar was sort of an retail outlet of the R&D at apple this is just a curious thought

[@PenguinRevolution]

The mid 90's were a great time in computer development. Those were the days where we saw real innovation and progress. I miss those days.

[@ncmartinez_his]

Looking forward to your BeOS video.🌞

[@alerey4363]

That Genesis may have had the 9500 logicboard but its chassis is the one from the Quadra 950, *THE* monster from the 680x0 era.

[@DuncanMcBride]

That teaser at the end, I can't wait for the follow-up video!

[@Wim37u]

Thanks for another delighting blast from the past.

[@5argetech56]

Eagerly awaiting the BeOS video about this Beast!

[@TanukiDigital]

I used a bunch of Mac Clones at work in the late 90's. They gave a bit of a power boost at least in terms of cost per performance. Clones were seen as a kind of death knell for Apple at the time. Oh man If I only knew then what I know now.

[@MarkHyde]

Awesome retro content - sad I missed this till today :)

[@christophsuess7646]

Thank you. I was looking daily for the new video. A Sunday without Collin isn´t a sunday ;-)

[@CathodeRayDude]

Hey man, curious if you have a cite on macworks painting machines. I can't find anything about it, and the specimens I'm aware of have injection molded black plastic fronts.

[@ThisDoesNotCompute]

That's a good question. I wasn't able to find anything concrete from established publications (there seems to have been only one published review of the Millennium, in the June 1998 issue of Macworld), but a while back I ran across some forum chatter suggesting that was the case. It also logically makes sense, given the nature of the machine -- DayStar was about to go out of business, and MacWorks bought the remaining Genesis MPs (and parts) they had in inventory. Given that MacWorks didn't have a valid license from Apple to include the Mac OS, and there's other indications that the company was a bit dodgy (they didn't offer returns on products, and its owner ended up getting convicted of mail fraud, see the article "Apple grapples with huge computer gray market" in the Kansas City Business Journal), it makes sense they'd try to maximize profits as quickly as they could since they probably knew they wouldn't be able to get away with it for long. So, using as much of the inventory they bought would have meant painting the case, instead of spending the money to have new front bezels and metal chassis components made. I could certainly be wrong though!

[@jamiemcparland]

I worked at a Mac reseller in the late 90s / early 2000s. Those 95/9600 were such a nightmare to work on. When I saw one in the pile of things to work on, I knew someone was going to get their computer back with a bunch of my blood in it. Literally. Every time, I'd cut my damn hand in those things, leaving some blood inside of it.

[@carlosbustamante161]

Wow, I never think to see it again, I only saw in a presentation of software here in my country. Amazing.

[@Feslmogh]

13:09 I know exactly where the building is! Whenever I hear the name I often wondered if it was the same named company. It's now an antique store...

[@DaivG]

The BE OS tease was unexpected and cruel at the end. I’m eager to see it, hopefully soon!

[@Fifury161]

2:41 - love how "no foam Peanuts!" was a selling point!

[@bryanramey2438]

We had a bunch of these at my old High School in our Graphic Design Art Class back in 1998.

[@fffforever]

1:20 is there a part number for this ram? i have never seen double-height high-density 168-pin dimms. i think i just spent my hyphen budget for the year.

[@kFY514]

Commercial conversion kits transforming one computer into another. What a time to be alive that was.

[@thomaswidter]

A nice trip down memory lane. Thank you!

[@jamiemcparland]

As always, an amazing video.

[@kimkimpa5150]

Looking forward to the inevitable future BeBox video, gonna be real interesting.

[@GoTeamScotch]

Ending on a cliffhanger! Guess I'll have to continue watching every video you make. 😄

[@hypertalking68k]

Awesome to see someone finally do a good video about these lesser spotted beasts!

[@Eyetrauma]

Man it doesn’t look like much from the outside but that case seems solid af, beautifully utilitarian

[@BUF-vr5cr]

Cut my hands in there on many an occasion. Lot's of sharp metal.

[@hypercube33]

Hell yea, bring on the BeOS video on this awesome tech

[@mikemoyercell]

wow that machine is made really really nicely. Excellent Quality!!

[@MaxOakland]

What does the E in 604e stand for?

[@wojiaobill]

This was my favorite episode of TDNC so far

[@naquirodriguezdelatorre2958]

I had this system and put PPC Linux on it so all 4 CPU worked at once. It was great at the time

[@nichtgestalt]

I'm so exited for BeOS.

[@BanuHaqim]

This has been my dream machine since it was announced. I have never had the money to buy one when it became available.

[@draggonhedd]

Dangit where are you finding all of these great machines? What a lovely beast. I would love one as a BeBox someday.

[@SPARTAN_Cayde-26]

Literally the Mac Pro tower of 1990s. Its like what Mac Pro 2019 is today or even Mac Pro 2009 which I have.

[@john_ace]

*256Mb 5V-DIMMs?* I never heard that this would work... I know IBM used them in some workstations but i did not know that any Mac-mainboard would support them.

[@idahofur]

I enjoyed this video. I didn't realize a 4 cpu version existed. I just know of the dual cpu versions and programs like adobe using the extra cores. During that time is the over priced macs. I don't know how true this is. But, I heard the Execs. at Apple thought the clones would open up more into the Mac universe. But, the die hard users would still continue to purchase Macs including the new converts. All it did was sent everybody to the more cost effective feature rich clones. I do wonder if Steve Jobs when he came back to apple saw part of that being price. Thus, is why the new I-Mac was priced to to the point that I was hearing from all the mac users that they can finally to replace their outdated Mac.

[@ChairmanMeow1]

What an absolute beast.

[@kuropixeljp]

This is a fantastic video! Thank you so much for your hard work making this kind of content! Love it so much.

[@Deadsniper-gv7wo]

these things are absolutely beautiful, i had 1 for a while but sadly missing the cpu just the board was there ended up lettin it go to a friend who i knew would actually use it

[@jwardell]

Thanks to those Tsunami clones I was not only able to afford a beast of a power tower pro just as I went off to college, I was able to cheaply and easily add ram, drive, and processor upgrades over time to keep it running like a top for many more years, as well as run lots of fun OSes like BeOs, Copeland, OSX beta, etc. Apple lost probably two computers from me in that time, but they would have only been mediocre. Thanks, Gil

[@amplifier28]

Love your intro. Simple but catchy!

[@andrewlewis7142]

One error in reporting here to an otherwise excellent report... DayStar never filed for bankruptcy. All bills were paid and the company closed down. I made the mistake of dropping all other product lines to focus on the clone program. Signed, Andrew / CEO DayStar

[@BilisNegra]

Wow, I think we've all associated Macs heavily with graphic design throughout the years, but a multiprocessor driver written by this manufacturer specifically for Photoshop is an extreme I would have not imagined.

[@david.mcmahan]

In the printing and related industries, at the time, making Photoshop faster alone could have justified the $14,000+ price for many purchasers. There was just so much work that a progress bar meant lost productivity.

[@s6edge7]

Collin has improved so much with every aspect in terms of filming , it's just njice to see

[@AD7Films]

Very interesting, love this.

[@nigew25]

Hi Colin, watching your vids gets me thinking... While at college in 1991 my course had DTP element. This was was my intro to Macs. The classroom had more than 30 and two printers. One assignment was to design your own magazine. To include photos I had to go upstairs with the picture and a disk and use an Oviletti pc and scanner. Save it, go back down stairs and import it in to publisher or it could have beed Macwrite? It always bugged me why the scanner wasn't connected to the Macs in the first place. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Nigel

[@johnmax5652]

HAPPY NEW 2023 YEARS TO COME. GOOD LUCK, HEALTH PROSPERITY AND HAPPINESS TO ALL.-

[@brendanhoffmann8402]

I remember seeing these in magazines and wishing my parents had won the lottery or something! lol, I used to lust so bad for Mac clones but ended up having the same Mac IIsi from 1990-97, then my Mum bought us a PC.

[@RubyNemesis]

I feel like it works as an upgrade for an existing mac ecosystem, but I have my doubts that that would've been a better choice than an equivalent SGI workstation if you really needed the power at the time for that.

[@kasimirdenhertog3516]

Those Sony Trinitrons still catch my eye as something sleek and sophisticated, even though it's a Stone Age relic by now

[@Alcochaser]

woooo Jaz drive, those were the bomb back in the day

[@ronsmith4325]

What a beast!

[@FluffyPuppyKasey]

It's crazy to think I used to live two hours away from that print shop your friend got the machine from! I've got so many memories of St. Louis

[@BUF-vr5cr]

Had one of these I got second hand from a music studio. Filled every single slot in there and bumped up the processors to the max, G4 350. It was awesome. Had 6 hard drives and a Jaz drive. This replaced my previous clone a Umax: SuperMac S900. Before that the Umax: SuperMac J700.

[@tjs114]

I purchased a Motorola StarMax desktop back in 1996 because it was about 30 percent cheaper than it's comparable PowerMac 4400. It was a major upgrade over my college-purchased MacPlus that was then 8 years old.

[@allanau]

Great video and I am amazed you got one! Congrats you maybe the only one... What is the 2nd last soundtrack you use, I like the vibe of the music. Thanks in advance.

[@Megatog615]

I'm excited to see a video about beos

[@olivier5918]

Great video - as always! Can you tell us what's the name of the music that starts at 8:46? Thanks :D

[@dylan.t180]

Amazing 🤩

[@vintageMIDI]

Excellent history lesson; thank you!

[@TheOriginalCollectorA1303]

An actual supercomputer for the time, for a very “affordable” price. This is an awesome machine, I’m sure it can be utilized even further with an appropriate operating system. I wouldn’t be surprised if this even manages to run OS X or something even newer when properly upgraded.

[@paul_boddie]

Having four PowerPC CPUs made it more like a high-end workstation than a supercomputer. Multiprocessor workstations had been around for a while already: DEC made the Firefly a decade earlier, and SGI was routinely introducing graphics workstations with multiple CPUs. Those systems were rather less affordable, though. (SGI's server systems were apparently combined to deliver actual supercomputer performance in the form of ASCI Blue Mountain.) This product might have been a more credible workstation than Apple's previous attempts, but Apple had largely exited that market and had practically ditched A/UX by this time. In fact, Apple did apparently have AIX ported to the Power Macintosh 9500, releasing a product called the Apple Network Server, although it appears to have been a uniprocessor system.

[@StephenSo8988]

Wow, great video. I noticed you mentioned that Apple made their own multiprocessor version of the 9500. Was their operating system at the time modified to support it or was it just certain applications like in the Photoshop example?

[@neuro]

System 7.5.3 introduced cooperative multitasking to support MP in 1996 when the 9500/180MP was released. System 8.6 introduced preemptive multitasking in 1999. That backend was replaced by Grand Central Dispatch in OS X 10.8 in 2012.

[@alex11943]

We can't read your thumbnail, it says King of the Mac clo14:21

[@Sven.Bornemark]

What an excellent video! Thank you! :-)

[@fadedfools]

I had a power computing power tower pro 225, that was the king of the clones.

[@fadedfools]

mine had the ims twin turbo graphics card with 8mb of vram. i still remember how hideously loud and high pitched that 7200rpm scsi drive was...

[@ericbauer4559]

I day dreamed about this machine back in middle school.

[@waytostoned]

Quad CPU in time of dual CPU mostly top end... love it! Have a love for my dual Pentium Pro 200 1mb, but this is even more insane. :D

[@hbarcellos76]

Where do you store all of your vintage items? Would you share a picture of your storage?

[@UnbornApple]

Photoshop 4 was the first version I used back in high school.

[@joetheman74]

When you made this video you hinted at doing a follow up with an alternate operating system. Any chance you may still make such a video?

[@GarthBeagle]

Absolute beasts these are! I've only been able to play with some of these at VCF, would love to own one some day! I see it's case is very similar in design to the Radius 81/110 I have, which is the Radius clone variant of the Power Macintosh 8100. Like the Daystar vs 9500, the Radius's metal case is WAY better than my crumbling 8100's case.

[@jaimeduncan6167]

I. never saw one, but I remember drolling over them as a student. It was super exiting back then, and the magazines were FAT and living a heyday. We did have the internet but was slow, and Magazines contained long detailed articles. It's funny that today we have ghz range, GBs of RAM in a tinny box (the Mac Studio) doing teraflops.

[@lyonadimral]

I'd prefer to get my hands on an Apple Network Server.

[@hypertalking68k]

Yep, love my Radius 81/110 and its metal case. No crumbly plastic!

[@sugaryhull9688]

2:40 "NO FOAM PEANUTS!" LGR approves

[@killervacuum]

anyone know which tiled wallpaper that is at 4:59 and where I might be able to find it?

[@betims]

Could you try to install osX on it please?

[@MasonFowlkesKenneth]

WAIT!!!! A Print Shop in St. Louis? In 2020? MY UNCLE WORKED THERE! This must have been one of those "Old Macs" he told me about! 😂

[@nambrosch]

I would love a video on BeOS!!

[@MikeZ8709]

10:18 I love how they call it "Photo Shop"! and holy CRAP that's a FORTUNE. Over $26,000 today according to Googles inflation calc.

[@veitjacob9764]

That's been an interesting one!

[@MacSociety]

I look forward to the BeOS on DayStar video. ;-)

[@rjaques60]

Saw one sitting in the corner of a computer shop. Front bezel and side door was missing, as well as the hard drives and ram. Owner didn't know what it was. It just showed up one day. I asked for the carcass. I had ram and hard drives. Had to look for a graphics card. It fired up! 4 200 mhz processors. I installed Mac OS, then Yellow dog Linux. Settled for the BE OS. It was fun for a while. Still can't believe someone stripped a 15,000 dollar computer.