DCS - Track IR to Virtual Reality - my experience so far

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

hey phil, nice video boss good to see the focus on world war 2 stuff.

[@philstyle]

Cheers man. WW2 is the ugly duckling of dcs:)

[@rempha]

@@philstyle Very good comparison on VR vs TrackIR. Also, I have never tried, but maybe you will get more VR performance from IL-2 Sturmovick: Great Battles, especially if you enjoy the WW2 action.

[@philstyle]

@@rempha thanks, but I have pretty much no interest in IL2 or war thunder etc..

[@no.7893]

@@philstyle Bit harsh to align IL2 with war thunder.

[@glados1073]

@@no.7893 Well .. truth can sometimes be a bit harsh.

[@CueBall909]

I played flight sims back in the 90s, with the Aces series. I loved it, but found it incredibly frustrating and disappointing playing in 2D. There was just a complete lack of immersion, detail, and depth. VR changed all that. I tried again with a Vive and the resolution just wasn’t there. But after getting an Index, the experience finally holds up. I’m looking forward to improved resolution, forested rendering, and much improved video cards that should make the experience even better over the next few years.

[@Mark_Point]

I'm the same. VR has been a promised tech for around 20+ years. I always wondered away from flight sims for the same reasons as you. Now I have what I always wanted and its great, room for improvements, but really amazing. Looking forward to the next gen cards and headsets...

[@rkwatchauralnautsjediparty7303]

If you don’t mind, what graphics card do you have? I have a 3060 while in line for a 3080 that may never come (at least, not before the next gen is out). It can kind of do it, but I think lack of fidelity is exacerbating my motion sickness.

[@CueBall909]

@@rkwatchauralnautsjediparty7303 I just have a 2060. I’m hoping to upgrade to a 3080 soon. I’ve got a Ryzen 5600X and 16GB of DDR4 3600. I maintain 45 fps in multiplayer IL-2 and usually around 80+ fps in single player. Personally, I think the thing that will “fix” VR performance is not more powerful video cards, but next gen headsets that use foveated rendering. If Valve can nail that down it should improve performance dramatically even on older hardware while also giving higher resolutions.

[@rkwatchauralnautsjediparty7303]

@@CueBall909 Thanks!

[@williamsaloka9043]

Playing in V.R. (anything) adds SO much to the gaming experience for me. Early tech, but it's amazing and will only get better.

[@yootoob22]

Call HP support for a new version 2 cable for the Reverb G2. I had the same USB issues with the same X570 MB. The new cable solved it. They will send a new cable for free if it’s under warranty. It arrived in 2 days.

[@gabesosa]

Great vid Phil. I would say that I share a lot of similar frustrations with VR. However they are more directed at *DCS's* implementation of VR. For example I have far fewer complaints (and far more frames) in IL2:GB for example. Also really liked what you said about the human/heuristic brain experience; about your body naturally expecting sensations etc. For me, the next step I found was adding transducers and SimShaker. I've rumbles in my sticks and throttle. Vibrations feel so natural and so "right" that now, when its ever turned off, my brain feels like something is wrong, or the engine died, or I'm flying dead stick. I would 1000% recommend transducer experience.

[@stang46l]

I know what you mean about adjusting to flying. Just dipping my nose down to bomb or strafe really makes me more careful. On a 2d screen you don’t get that feeling of the ground rushing in closer as you dive down.

[@spyderf16]

The hair thing I mitigate by using a Under Armor skull cap (I originally got it to keep my hair out of the way in my hockey helmet). It also keeps my facial interface clean since it covers my forehead as well.

[@philstyle]

Good tip!

[@totallylegit4092]

Two things on performance. It’s always worse online compared to offline content. Secondly, lower shadow quality a lot and you will get much better fps. But yes, Il2 has much better optimisation for vr in my experience.

[@wheelwrightpl9429]

IL2 also sucks in VR when it comes to performance. I have 2080Ti and HP Reverb Mk1 running on AMD 5800X. It is playable with medium graphics settings in Quick Mission Builder with reprojection turned on (which BTW introduces visual errors), but when you turn it off, or play Full Campaign (which has more planes and stuff happening), it stutters badly.

[@totallylegit4092]

@@wheelwrightpl9429 i dont get this at all. I get a solid 90fps once I followed the guide on how to optimise il2 for vr. I struggle a bit online when finnish server is full. I get about 70ish then. But I have a very beefy pc.

[@JayRacer]

@@totallylegit4092 I’m with you. With repro on, I have BoS completely maxed out (aside from AA set to 2x) with a 3080 and a 5900x and it runs beautifully.

[@Tettrah_]

I have the Oculus Rift S running on a 1070TI, works fine, obviously have the setting tuned down. I can't agree more with this VR experience summary. It's sometimes a pain to use but so worth it when it does. The majority of my key bindings are around W,A,S,D because I can find those keys in my sleep. It's also worth having a microfiber cloth handy for when the sweat gets on the lens.

[@ketchupinflight6534]

My god Phil, those Jugs at the beginning..... Absolutely gorgeous! Hope to see you in the P-47 some more soon :)

[@philstyle]

The DCS airframes all look stunning.

[@ReflectedSimulations]

I had VR for half a year, I can't wait to get back into it. Even with all the compromises that you mentioned it was night and day in terms of immersion and feeling of flight. If I flew in MP more, I would be more worried about its limitations though (spotting, a/c recognition, effective visibility range)

[@philstyle]

Flying with a couple of other players whobalso use VR helps a lot in multiplayer. Mitigates the limitations for me.

[@ReflectedSimulations]

@@philstyle when I flew in MP with VR my main problem was ID-ing. I saw a smudge approaching me and I had no idea if it was a friendly or an enemy until he was well within shooting distance. Then again, it was an old Rift...

[@TheNemoyo76]

It does make it very tricky to spot the Wild Card in Zone 5, but I still pretty much fly exclusively VR nowadays.

[@KortanaDCS]

@@ReflectedSimulations Definitely have another go at it with something like the Reverb G2 if you get the chance. Medium range spotting can be a little weird because of how DCS seems to render things at various ranges, but long range spotting and short range recognition are vastly improved over the older headsets. Also, love your work!!

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@ReflectedSimulations I know how that is, flying with the CV1 myself. Just recently swapped my trusty old 3570k for a 5800x and added a G2 to the mix that I still have to crank down to about 60% res in SteamVR as I kept my 1080 for the time being - wasn't able to upgrade everything at once, especially with the current GPU market situation in mind. Even with that lowered res, the difference is night and day. Flying in combat with the CV1 literally makes you feel blind. But the performance is godsent... getting 60+fps (almost hitting 90 at high altitude) with quite high settings and PD 1.5 (that basically is the same as 225% in Steam) with that thing now, the G2 is at around 40-50 with the same settings, but PD at 1.0.

[@davewellings6281]

This made me chuckle! Re the nose diving and ground handling, When taxing too fast and apply too much brake my body ALLWAYS prepares for that lurch forward, and when diving it took me a long while to push that nose forward. I used to roll inverted and pull the nose down to maintain positive G !?!

[@Mark_Point]

When you get to the next new aircraft which you learn in VR only, It makes a huge difference and very hard to start flying it in 2D.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I made the same experience back then with TrackIR. Was hard to transit in Il-2, but I started flying the Su-25T and Ka-50 with the thing and had a bitter hard time when I tried without. Same with rudder pedals. I was a true master of my Sidewinder's twist grip and I only really learned to use the pedals properly with new planes and sims. But once that learning process is largely done, it ports back to the old stuff nicely.

[@Bryan-cd9cl]

I'll be back to watch this enterely ❤..i promised u..keep up to good work by sharing all of this.. thanks bro

[@LimonenWasserEis]

Really on Point what i mention about VR in "War" Flight Sims. I tried it Back an forth. For me also IR is the better choice.

[@quadg5296]

Been flying in VR since 2017.. still using my CV1 :) like others have mentioned get a desk fan for dealing with the sweat. and when you have the canopy open you will even feel the wind in your hair :)

[@joshuadelorimier1619]

also in vr I leave the canopy open so I can hear planes since I have a harder time spotting then close it before I engagement happens

[@GrendalTheBeasty]

Setup for me with the Reverb G2, plug in, install windows mixed reality, install steamVR, play DCS. It took about 15 minutes.

[@terryteed1903]

Now save up for the jet pad seat cushion. Another complete game changer. Feel the rumble of the runway, feel the gear and flaps in transit, feel the buffet at your stall limit. Its an amazing bit of hardware. Good video Phil.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I've been glancing at those Jetseat things for years now, but they seem to be out of stock constantly. And many of them just use audio as input while there actually was one at least that plugs into USB and is registered as if it was a Force Feedback stick, but also able to take audio as input which clearly is the better variant. I'm glad to still have an FFB stick though, so I get that feedback at least on the stick, most importantly though the dynamic spring that changes depending on speed and trim mostly. Being able to feel your speed on the grip is worth a million.

[@terryteed1903]

@@CakePrincessCelestia well the cushion is like that too. Anres shop is the place to buy from. When you order, it takes him a week to build and ship. He's a one man band but has excellent customer service. Top class. Can't fault him or his pad in the slightest. Shipping does take time though being as he sends from Mother Russia. If had two arses I would buy another one in a heart beat.🤣

[@thorrior1786]

Personally I can't stand the motion sickness I get in VR. I've got the Oculus CV1 and the Valve Index. I was kind of hoping that the higher refresh rate of the Index would improve it and make me less nauseous. But it didn't work out for me. I know you can work towards not getting sick anymore, but it takes too much effort for me to get there. I haven't even connected my Index to my Ryzen 9 5900X with its RTX 3090 which I own since last year. For me TrackIR is the way to go.

[@terraoftime]

with my current VR setup i can spot aircraft at about 25 to 30 nm, it depends on the weather conditions and the type of aircraft itself though.

[@yurikirsanov8763]

I know this video is about warbirds, but playing helicopters in DCS in VR is so much easier because you're getting that 3D vision and perception!

[@klemlao5463]

Whilst I agree that VR requires more stup time and headphones can add weight (I use good earbuds and don't feel I'm missing anything), at the end of the day it is about the experience. Yes it brings you into the real world physicalities/limitations of looking around but it also takes you into the total absorbtion of your surroundings - you are 'in' that world instead of looking 'at' it. Removing the 'cheat' of a 180 rear view given by TrackIR is, in combat, compensated by the need for the real world practice of good wingman flying so a disadvantage turns into an advantage of the real world combat experience. For pure simming such as MSFS2020 the environment can be stunning. It is still early days for VR and yes the technology clould do with an industry standard governing setups, resolutions, and pure guidance etc., but even now it isn't a huge effort to set it up and Phil's description of that is a little unfair. I have found it frustrating getting the best out of it but I think the manufacturers need to spend more time on that aspect and better guidance for a variety of game types. My greatest confusion comes from how in-game resolution marries with SteamVR resolution and, yes, the need for set-up restarts and unfortunately there are too many well meaning gurus out there all with their own unique angle on the subject. Very often what works for them doesn't always work for me. That is where the manufacturers need to step up. Bottom line is that for me the experience far exceeds TIR and I could never go back but in-HMD viewing (sweet spot etc) needs improvement. Wide FOV adds immensely to the experience, I have a Pimax and whilst I close the FOV to 150 degrees with no sense of loss, reducing it to 130 (which I believe is close to many of the other better HMDs) leaves me feeling as though my head is in a box. That's not a Pimax promotion, it's about the better experience of wide FOV. Of course you need top of the line equipment if you aren't to be disappointed but that's the price you pay for 'more'. So if you have an HMD I would say persevere until you get the best you can out of it or give up and stay with the lesser experience of TIR. Having said all that I have huge respect for Phil and his friends for the way they persevere with their mission designs going all the way back to the old IL-2 days.

[@philstyle]

I hope it is obviois that this is a description of my experiences to date, and is not a universal summary of VR. I haven't tried any other headsets besides the one I own.

[@klemlao5463]

@@philstyle sure Phil, no offence meant.

[@borjaordinana1865]

HP has relesed a new cable that solves the USB issues connectivity on AMD systems. Contact HP support, they will send the new rev2 cable!

[@philstyle]

Ok thanks for the tip.

[@Power5]

Sitting in the actual cockpit is worth all the headaches. My samsung odyssey+ was easier than all the headaches you mentioned. I plugged in, opened steam vr and windows program and tuned down my settings and was in the air. There is now a mod you can download to add rotation so you do not have to turn completely around to see out the back. Called "neck safer" for use in steam vr or openXR. It allows you to add rotation degrees to your view. So if you turn 90 degrees and push the keybind, you can add an extra 45 degrees to your look back. So you do not have to turn around to turn around in game. As you mentioned I use the cockpit buttons so much more in VR than in 2D. I can look at the switches and use my mouse button. I use bindings much less. VR is as close to real flying as we can get. You can put as many monitors around you as you want, still feels like playing a game on a monitor.

[@edwinrudd4398]

Hey Phil- great vid on VR! I’ve been flying VR for a few years now, but my problem was the weight of the VR cord pulling on my head or it getting caught on chair- my solution was to get a floor standing lamp, you know the ones that have the springs on the separate arms so you can articulate it any way you want. Well I took the lamp part off and put a short pice of PVC so VR cord runs through it. Bingo- no more VR cord weight and cord never gets stuck or tangled. Immediate differences for the better

[@Fishing8136]

A well considered and thoughtful video. 😎🇨🇦

[@robertkelly3186]

Even with all the limitations of VR, it still remains the real future of flight sims. I don't see anyway around that for real aviation enthusiasts. Better to get in on the ground floor and acclimate yourself to it as soon as possible, I think.

[@JayRacer]

I copied and pasted this from my other comment: In regards to performance, an option that helped me is turning motion reprojection on. It cuts the FPS in half but only renders every other frame. So in theory you get the same FPS for half the cost. Some people say they notice artifacts but I personally never have. You have to make sure you download the “Steam VR for WMR (Windows Mixed Reality)” in addition to Steam VR. You can locate the options for this on the bottom left of the steam vr panel and turn it to “always on.” Open XR in MSFS 2020 has the same but it actually renders every 3rd frame. I think Big Newy said Eagle Dynamics is looking to properly integrate Open XR so you’ll be able to rener every 3rd frame instead of every frame or every 2nd frame using Steam VR motion repro. I use motion repro in Open XR while flying MSFS 2020 and again, some sim pilots complain of artifacts but I do not experience this. Additionally, there was a downloadable shaders mod that greatly increased performance in DCS 2.5. I used this on my old rig (i73820 and 2060 Super) and I had settings set pretty liberally (medium/medium high graphics and 120% SS with reprojection turned on) and I was almost getting smooth settings. I was also playing the f-15c fc2 Georgian Campaign. There was also a script mod to fix that campaign. The script mod in conjunction with the shaders mod had a major impact on performance. I’ll do some research to see if there is an updated 2.7-friendly shader mod for VR. ****Edit***** This is the shaders mod. I haven’t tried it myself but it’s made by the same person (who also makes Vr Shaders mods for other titles (e.g. Dirt 2)): www.kegetys.fi/dcs-vr-shaders-mod-update-12/

[@Schimml0rd]

18:50 my fav gotta be after a sortie and taxi coming to a full stop. My oh my :D

[@philstyle]

Yeah! Putting the brakes on when taxy-ing is crazy (in a good way)!

[@UkDave3856]

I always have a couple of minutes rest after shutdown with the canopy open, Listening to the breeze and the birds singing as my giros audibly spool down 👍

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@UkDave3856 similar here, before in 2d as soon as the engine was off I jumped out, now I sit and just look around, spot other pilots landing etc.

[@ZaphodBeeblebrox2nd]

nice explanation of what VR is cabaple these days and what are the draw backs. I fly in VR since Rift CV1 and never changed back to monitor. To my excuse im only flying non competition single Player and only MP with friends that also own a VR Headset. For me and in regards to my system its ok but the resolution have to increase. Like you said, waiting for the next generation of Videocards. Ive build me a few buttonboxes wich helped alot with keys. Also an awesome addition to VR and DCS is a Jetseat ForceFeedback thing for your chair. I was flying a few times a small airplane myself and now my setup is nearly as close to reality as i can afford. Maybe some time later i spend a few 1000 bucks on a small motion platform. Than i guess its as close to real Life flying as it can be. btw thx for all the good content from your channel and keep going

[@Damtired]

spatially, my brain just loved it. Haha, what i time we live in, ya?

[@obic123]

AS much as I love VR, You nailed it It's a f ing Annoyance Even with a 5800X & 3090, 32GB ram (waiting on 64GB) I have the impression I've outlived the whole 32GB is enough club on FUll server Online. There's no good guide from manufacturer, there is no Set Standard, It's just one big clusterfuck after a other, when it's not the game, it's the driver, When it's not the driver it's the OS, then Full loop back to The game. But The immersion is addictive....

[@employeeofthemonth1]

Yes the usb issue on the reverb was really annoying. My main con for vr is that any plane more than 200m away is just so fuzzy for me. Cockpit stuff is fine.

[@TheRoadrunner11]

The Reverb G2 has a faulty USB cable design that is very recently updated. I heard that HP is replacing the original cable with a new model that has no connection issues free of charge if you contact them. So might want to do that.

[@silverfox2756]

My G2 quit working about two weeks ago. It gave me the connection error that it wasn't connected. I called HP and simply asked for a new cable. It arrived two days later and all i had to do was send the other back at no charge. All is well now. HP was amazingly easy to work with.

[@edeltraudengel8388]

@@silverfox2756 same experience.

[@codeo5]

Finally I found a kiwi DCS youtuber!!!! Love it bro trying to decide between vr or track ir!

[@BlueBaron3339]

The essential problem is that you have two simulations running on a monitor. You're simulating a 3D environment on a 2D surface. VR addresses this. This is also why pilots with lots of experience in actual high performance aircraft initially struggle with a flight sim on a monitor. Early VR had a major air sickness issue. This was actually a frame rate issue. When flying for real I could cure a passenger feeling airsick by having them take the stick. It's a control issue. Early VR had low frame rates which reduce the feeling of being in control.

[@heylookabigmac]

Cheers. Thanks Phil 👌

[@xYxColeTrainxYx]

I would argue that the fact of having to find or make a TrackIR profile would make VR less of a hassle for most people. Anyone I have talked to, with VR and coming from TrackIR, has said that VR requires far less set up and tweaking.

[@71Splinter]

Very cool talk through

[@Hotdognzz]

Great video away even though I disagree with a lot of what you said about VR and its setup and comfort, the only comment I will say is that its not the GPU or CPU that is at fault it really is DCS, its just old technology and needs to improve, its way behind the eightball now on how well VR can run. So it seems the conclusion to me is it helped you get a closer to a real life fighter pilot experience and having all the limitations that they had with the SA and using their combat AC in real life, this seems to me what you really like with DCS and it seems you are there, glad you are sticking with VR, ED could make DCS have VR limitations in the cockpit I just think they are too lazy to implement it. If DCS can improve their game with performance upgrades to the core engine then the mainstream rig you have should run VR really well, I had that setup 6 months ago and it ran fine, I threw money at a 3090 and new CPU for DCS and it most defiantly was not worth it my opinion as im more gutter that DCS didnt preform that much better vs the $$$ I spent.

[@Barney-ic3uy]

Terrific video, I have both track IR and the G2..the tinkering for VR can and has been frustrating. But you make valid points around the VR experience..and its worth pursuing. I hope the next gen of GPUs will better this experience also.. 👍

[@jayrock1727]

There are two mods to help a lot with VR. 1. One thats adding FidelityFX 2. ReShade - This makes everything much more sharp. Makes ID easier and looks way better...not so blurry in distance.

[@johncalvi8981]

gs makes some kick ass thumbnails great vids too. subbed thanks for the info!!!

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Great to see you having made the jump :) 4:25 That's a pretty common mistake. The USB-C on graphics cards is a so-called Virtual Link port, which is made for connecting VR headsets - and especially that has lots of potential to confuse people since it seems to be an USB 3 Type C port and it somewhat does even work like that. It's an interface made for connecting them instead of having to use a HDMI or DP port transporting the video signal to the HMD - but none of the consumer headsets on the market do use that yet, they all come with either HDMI (mainly the older ones like Rift CV1 and the original VIVE) or DP. Also, probably because of that, nVidia dropped that port, the 30 series doesn't have it anymore. So you did just the right thing by taking a USB C port directly on your motherboard instead. Which again might get complicated when one doesn't have such a port. But the G2 ships with an adapter that fits into Type A ports for that matter, but that being one more possible source of errors. 5:30 I can tell by my own experience now: In the case of the G2 you're right. I've never been troubleshooting the stuff so much with my Rift though. Oculus has the advantage of being supported directly by DCS, so you install your Oculus software, connect the headset (which is trickier with the Quest ones using a link cable, IMHO using Virtual Desktop or Air Link is much easier and less troublesome), run DCS and have fun. The G2 however requires the WMR portal and SteamVR at the same time. By the way, it was just yesterday that I found something called "WMR TrayTool" which helps running all the needed things in proper order and also fix some issues that might come up. Just google it, it's great to have. 6:57 You might have heard that advice already: Set up a fan blowind at you, makes it much better and also helps against motion sickness issues if present :) 7:49 Same here. Not that I'm having real issues, but VR does make me move and work that stuff more which, in the end, is good thing, especially when having some spinal disc issues - as long as the movement doesn't hurt, of course. As a side note, there's a tool called "VR Neck Saver" which can be found on the Il-2 forums that makes it possible to shift the view to a set amount of degrees with some HOTAS binds. For example you can create bindings that turn your head by 60° or even 90° (left and right each), so you're easily able to check your six still by simply turning just 90° (which the neck alone can still do normally) and using that mapping. This probably is extremely valuable for people who do have issues with their mobility or simply can't turn around completely because of their room/simpit setup. I for one have the problem sitting on an office chair with wheels that's on a flat laminate floor - and it likes to just slide away when just using the pedals sometimes if I don't turn the base a bit while sitting at the right spot (so the wheels being perpendicular to their legs act a bit like a brake when trying to push the chair away), but it basically happens everytime I try to turn myself around with the whole upper body... 8:56 That will get better if you use a VR Pulley system for cable management. I just did a small trick though by pushing a part of that cable just inbetween the frame and the matress of my bed that's right behind me, so that the cable coming from there is just long enough for all movements. That already made it noticably better. For anyone being uncomfortable with cables, there's the Quest 2 with Air Link or the brilliant Virtual Desktop software which works well enough with a 866+MBit/s cabable router or access point in the same room. 9:12 That's really something to consider - the G2 has the same headset audio drivers that the Valve Index has, and those are clearly the best on the market. I'd say the only reasons to use a separate headset are to keep the noise to yourself (because of the open off-ear design of the VR headset's audio) or if you want to have a better mic as the G2's isn't the best out there. Personally, I prefer to use my 5.1 Teufel Concept E Magnum for flying and have the comms routed though the VR HMD's audio system, guess that is as real as it gets (cockpit noise coming from around you and headset audio coming through an actual headset, plus separate volume controls) - as long as that doesn't bother anyone in your house. 10:30 Same here, but I actually do use the VR controllers for that instead. Took a bit getting used to, but it's more intuitive in the end - I mean, you just grab a different device, but that one's not tied to your HMD screen, but the virtual room you're sitting in. So you just take the controller, point at the thing you want to switch (with the help of some sort of laser pointer, I know, this might break immersion for some) and do it. Having more troubles with the mouse, searching the cursor. There's also the PointCTRL thing that many prefer which kinda moves the mouse around with your hand/finger, definately worth checking out. BTW as for the keyboard, I still use it mainly for view controls, time control (well, in offline training) and things like the kneeboard. There's a good bunch of keys that's rather easy to find even if you don't see them, especially the F keys, cursor keys, the block above that, numpad, Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Spacebar... (basically anything at the edge of the main block) and even some of the letters (WASD and adjacent keys for example, or , . - ö ä # ü + on a German keyboard since they're right next to the bigger keys). That's one thing that also needs getting used to, but works well enough in the end. Of course, removing the nose flaps of the headset (if present) and looking though the small gap can also help, totally valid procedure :) 12:23 I also run my G2 at 60% SteamSS. That's 4912x2404 instead of 6336x3100 total res and makes a lot of difference on my 1080. 13:10 I can't see it either, just like many of the reviewers on KZbin. That 2160x2160 per eye display really is glorious. I can still notice it somewhat in my Quest (1440x1600) and it's very noticable in the CV1 (1080x1200). If you really want to have no screendoor effect, you basically have to get either a Quest 2, Reverb G2 (or the old one, same res, but the overall headset isn't as good) or the VIVE Pro 2. 16:17 I guess you're still pretty good with the 2080ti there, since DCS is CPU bound a lot anyway - when the 30s were new, I've seen people not getting noticable performance increases because of that until they started tweaking things and using shader mods. I also don't thinkt that Vulkan alone will do that much, but it certainly will open some doors. The real gain will come from multi-threading and better VR support (single pass stereo especially, which can be enabled already, but still is WIP).

[@gavinbranch5467]

I use a quest 2 and it’s very simple to set up. All I had to do was have the Oculus software and a USB 3 allowing me to go into pcvr and then launch the game. It’s was no different than playing any other pcvr game from what I remember.

[@davidfishlock1968]

When is vulcan being released for dcs is greatly needed I have i9900k 5ghz 32gb memory and a 3080 with reverb g2 and its not as good as it used to be with my older headsets

[@darbz2k]

VR is the way to go, you can't go back to head tracker afterwards. You just need to find someone who has experience with it and ask them for advice on the graphics settings. I found removing shadows gave me the best performance and I don't notice them missing. Yes, you'll get a sore neck after a while, but that's what happened to pilots in real life too. If you want immersion and realism, buy VR.

[@alensezz4372]

Il2 player here. In terms of programs running while playing. it depends entirely. The Vive platform, and th index dont require anything other than steam vr to operate. while oculus needs the oculus app and all the others work through windows mixed reality in the end the performance hit is actually very apparent. Those programs(at least in the case of oculus) beat my performance down. I switched to a vive from a rift s. On top of no extra programs, there is a lower res per eye in the vive. but i was abe to counter act that with heavy antialiasing and supersampling. keeping at 90fps experience with that varies on headset and hardware 3070 ryzen 7 5800x 16 gb 3600mhz ddr4 ram ran off of hdd

[@UkDave3856]

The 3090 is an expensive piece of kit, but for me it's been worth the investment. I can now run DCS and my G2 in pretty much ultra settings and 100% render, and still get 90 fps with non of the distance aberrations that you talk about, and that I too experienced using tge 2080ti card. The visual fidelity still isn't quite as good as my 4k monitor, but it's not far off, and the immersion is simply sublime

[@philstyle]

tempt me not! :)

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I wish there were benchmarks in the DCS community that compare the 3090 and the 3080ti. Under most conditions they're on par, but DCS might actually need that extra memory, especially with high VR resolutions. It's possible to get an '80ti for 1499€ (MSRP would be 1199€, so "just" 25% more), but the '90 is a few hundred bucks more.

[@GunSlingerAUS1]

Bullshit. Unless you’re looking up at the sky in an empty mission, with everything else set to low, it’s impossible to maintain 90fps. I have one of the fastest PCs on the planet (3D Mark verified), and DCS VR on a G2 runs like ass.

[@UkDave3856]

@@GunSlingerAUS1 I dont know what to tell you mate, but my i9 10900k over clocked to 5hz, runs DCS like it's on rails. A fast pc with a beefy gfx card is only part of the solution. You also need to go through your settings with a fine toothed comb and fully optimise it for VR

[@damienfiche2592]

@@UkDave3856 Same here.

[@AR-ly7yt]

I will only fly in VR despite the draw backs. The feeling and immersion is worth it.

[@gerryabbott]

Just came across this video, and think VR has come a long way even in a year. I started with a reverb VR1000 couple of years ago, and for that your video is spot on. However I just got a Pico 4 and its a real game changer for those with the hardware to run it. You need a heavy duty CPU/GPU, but setup is easy (tweaking is comparable with TIR), and pass through camera and image clarity means you don't have to leave VR once you have the headset on. Immersion is night versus day compared with TIR and even the old reverb. Biggest downside of VR for hardcore simmers, is going to be the need to leave their physical cockpits behind.

[@Stephengirty]

Very close to mine. Key differences for me is the GFX Card and the head set. I have a 3070 Ultra and an Index. I can't play flying games without VR anymore. Note, if you have an index you don't need to have multiple programs running, just Steam VR.

[@scivanpoon]

Excellent analysis!

[@gregprouse1173]

@phil style Where did you buy the vr headset and how much did it cost? Or can anyone else tell me the cheapest I can buy it in the uk

[@jeffb5615]

USBC TO USBC from the video card is the best way to go with VR.

[@VengeanceMkII]

I suppose since I went with the Valve Index I never encountered any of the VR issues you mentioned when it came to software since everything worked out of the box. In fact I found that trying to get into Track-IR to be even harder due to lack of supply or the need to build my own setup by kitbashing components like a PS4 camera and the obtuse software and setting up curves just to use my temporary face tracking.

[@jameswilliams1085]

Very interesting, thank you.

[@drakhogekko]

I have had the same issue with keyboard access and solved it by using voicemacro... a voice command program (a bit like voice attack) and it helps a lot and adds some roleplay style. And for the heating, it has a good side for me, by forcing me to take some rest...

[@HarryVoyager]

Definitely understand the performance issues with VR right now. It is still maturing as a system, and has some issues to resolve. I'm trying to run VR with a 1080 Ti, so I know what you mean about the performance trade-off. I will, however, recommend you give Il-2 Flying Circus a try in VR. I've found that to be the game currently best suited to VR. The aircraft are simple, the engagement ranges are short, and because all the flying is seat of the pants and eye-balling it, it plays to VR's biggest strengths. Just pop into the quick battles for an 8v8 and you'll see what I mean.

[@WW2Adinfinitum]

New g2 cables allow direct to mobo connections phil , hp are replacing them for free. If your g2 cable has a small power button on hub it's new one . Have some new tips from last we spoke and the sim is looking good , but yeah ... be is a ballache to set up lol. Cheers.

[@philstyle]

Since this video was recorded i have had the cable replaced.

[@WW2Adinfinitum]

@@philstyle happy days , solves a few issues 👍

[@fraggsta]

I have a G2, a 3080 Ti and a 3700x and DCS runs pretty well at 70% resolution. I'll have to try FSR as that will probably make things even better. It seems like a bit more GPU grunt goes a long way in DCS VR. I got a USB button box which was designed for iRacing, it has buttons, rotating dials and toggle switches. The buttons are very tactile so I can feel what I'm pressing. There's a program for IL2 called "VR neck saver" which lets you press a joystick button and it rotates your VR view 180 degrees to easily check six. This doesn't currently work with DCS but the author says he's working on getting it to work. This will probably mostly solve issues checking six. Generally I agree with this video. You lose a bit of clarity bit you gain a lot of immersion and head movement is way easier in VR. I couldn't really go back to 2D.

[@Flying_Orb]

Necksafer works fine on my DCS install. I use an older version though.

[@TheRadiag]

Interesting to hear about the G2 perspective, I always imagined it'd be quite a bit more hassle to get setup with the WMR and SteamVR combo needing to run, its a bit simpler with my Rift S, where just the oculus software needs to run that starts automatically when I put my headset on, initial setup was also not very difficult for me. Totally agree on the controls, can be a bit annoying at times, especially since I use a center mount which means I'm even further away from my desk when I fly, to help with this I've bound Left and Right click in the DCS UI Controls to buttons on my throttle, which helps a lot. I then just have to look at the switch and press, instead of needing to lean forward to find and then click the mouse.

[@Basilone45]

lol the tail numbers on the plane, TIR and 420 VR

[@philstyle]

wondered if anyone would notice

[@chipsvonchio9258]

@@philstyle First thing I realized when i started the vid. Excellent choice and good sense of humour. Great vid

[@soulofastro]

phil: *uses WMR headset* me: well there's your problem

[@BloodPlusPwn]

Kinda new to DCS... is the ww2 aspect even really active? It definitely interests me but the amount of time and energy that goes into learning something in DCS really makes me worried I'll just be playing alone haha

[@MrTailspinstu]

You will never GO BACK !

[@edeltraudengel8388]

Hi phil, thx for the vid. Could you do a video about your graphic settings in the nvidia panel, steam vr and dcs? I have almost the same specs as you and I am interested how you manage your graph settings. I am also flying in vr with g2

[@FuriouslyFurious]

Why don't you try using the built in headphones and mic on the g2? I have the same headset and never had a problem with them.

[@jep1103]

At 600 quid it's out of reach for me atm but on the other hand am happy with track IR atm Nice review

[@philstyle]

Yeah, it is pricey. . .

[@jep1103]

@@philstyle quick Q. Is there any benefit to 64gb of ram compared to 32 atm

[@philstyle]

@@jep1103 i found slightly smoother gameplay when I went from 32 to 64 ram

[@jep1103]

@@philstyle ok that's great. Thank you.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

If you're not having issues with facebook, the Quest 2 is a great headset for just half of that. The resolution is a bit lower, but not by that much. And it's easier to set up.

[@7200932]

The setup sounds like an issue with the G2. I have an oculus and the setup is much easier, you only need the oculus home program running and you do not need steamVR and it was just plug and play ONCE you have gone through the setup within oculus home which guides you through where you position your sensors and map out your VR area.

[@SVTL4799]

P-47’s!!! I still want a full multiplayer mission featuring jugs though!

[@captaininsano564]

Well done sir.....

[@valrond]

Great comment, except for the setup with VR. I didn't find it problematic, and I own quite a few headsets. But the rest, I mostly agree.

[@rgscomputers1]

if you have revision 1 of the cable you must contact HP for new cable ask for a x570 cable

[@philohan95]

Talking about nausea and the reverb 2, I tried an old Oculus Rift before I bought my reverb 2 and it gave me lots of nausea, with the reverb 2 I get no nausea at all.

[@radosawbiernacki9615]

Phil, I agree with all points and observations you mention in the video, beside one. "Our CPU and GPU have to catch up in order to allow our PC too bump the graphic options". I have 3090 and 3800x and I can assure you that problem is not in ours PC. The problem with low frame rate in DCS is not due high graphics scenes but old single threaded graphical engine of the game that still use DX9 in the core (with hack's). Try play other VR titles like HalfLife Alyx and you will clearly see that Vulkan API and multicore design of the engine is a must. Those titles have faaar superior graphics and still able to output 90FPS while my PC in DCS is struggling to hold 45. Creators like you should put much pressure on Eagle Dynamic in order to improve that by clearly pointing where the problem it's.

[@erfguuipo8084]

They need unreal engine 5

[@radosawbiernacki9615]

@@erfguuipo8084 Agree, any modern engine in fact would be ok. But this will not happen due business reason. It would mean ED would scrap more than 10 years of their work in favor of being dependent and actually paying royalties. This is dead end for DCS and no good solution here in my opinion as they also cannot afford on rewriting their engine. And this is not due some of my bias on ED. No one can afford for development of an engine those days, at is simply cost to much man hours and if you spend those hours and $ on the engine, than other parts of your game suffers from that. Take RedEngine as an example and CyberPunk 2077. They done decent job with engine, rewriting it for 3rd time but everybody now knows those $ could be spent better (like on AI and bug fixes). I bet it will be the same with DCS as we already see the Vulkan implementation is nowhere close to being finished (it become quiet about Vulcan in DCS recently).

[@shuntera]

Phil, can you post your settings somewhere. I basically have the same system as you and I don’t think I am getting the experience you are. I wouldn’t say my cockpit readability is as clear as you describe

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

I would sum it up this way: Will the switch to VR from TrackIR make you a better combat pilot? Probably not, since TrackIR is in some instances partially a cheating (easy checking of six, dynamic zoom, better resolution, change of field of view) and as always "cheating" gives you some edge over a non cheating player. But... the fun factor and immersion of the flight in VR is vastly higher, that I dont care if I win cos I have huge amount of joy and fun. When playing IL-2 Flying Circus I found myself to wink to other pilots out of joy... silly I know, but why not. So at the end of the day I simply cant go back to TrackIR from VR.

[@mackan072]

For immersion and fun, VR is king. I typically end up reaching for my TrackIR over the Quest 2 though, simply because I have a family. I need to be 'available' and tend to get disturbed quite often while playing. Being inside of VR means that I have to take the headset off to deal with whatever - while I can deal with most things 'on the fly' so to speak, in flat screen mode.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@mackan072 yes, you are the great example where a advantage (takes you in) is sometimes disadvantage (you need to stay connected with real world)- I wish the flashlight mode was better done in WMR, like voice control to say "flashlight on" and you can see trough the front cameras and the sound gets dimmed, augmented reality style. In WMR you need to grab the controller and use it as flashlight to aim. I think that a picture-in-picture in the middle of the headset would be enough to check the environment or type on the real keyboard if needed.

[@mackan072]

@@madigorfkgoogle9349 the Quest 2 allows you to tap the side of the headset twice to enable the cameras, which is great. It doesn't entirely solve the problem for me, but in some occasions it helps

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@mackan072 in Reverb G2 (and Index) the headphones are off ear so you do hear surrounding noises (if its loud in headset the noise has to be loud as well), with a good see trough solution it would be perfect.

[@DarkDutch007]

The field of view that is displayed on your screen is most likely not accurate with the size of your screen and the distance you are from your screen, making zooming in look like cheating while in reality it is closer to a 1:1 representation of what you would see being in the pilot seat. (it is not cheating unless you zoom further in than what would be 1:1, at that stage you are using binoculars...) Phil has made a vid about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIG6mKGaq85rjqc

[@Tex9396]

Most problems listed are windows MR headset specific a valve index is much better and the wider field of view is better for flight sims

[@paulsheather7657]

for the last month, i have been using track IR but switched back to my g2 this week but spending long time in VR can give you eye issues and game performance,

[@UkDave3856]

What eye issues have you exoerienced? I'm feeling some too, but I'm not convinced that this isn't just down to my age

[@paulsheather7657]

@@UkDave3856 i can only describe it as eye strain eyes get sore started to wear my reading glasses in the headset and that's helped. I also have some of these on the way that might help.www.vr-wave.store/products/hp-reverb-g2-lenses my other issue is my IPD is 71 and the G2 is goes to 68.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@paulsheather7657 actually I have the opposite, my eyes got better and now I can read without glasses with no headache. Im fine with the IPD of G2 since Im on 68mm but maybe there is some settings in DCS to change software IPD. In IL-2 there is key-bind to change software IPD dynamically in game, maybe you should check that out if it helps?

[@paulsheather7657]

@@madigorfkgoogle9349 thanks for the tip I check it out.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@paulsheather7657 With 3mm off, you're just about at the border of the thing. The closer you got it to your IPD, the better, but 2-3mm off should still be OK. With 66.5mm I actually tend to have my G2 set to max anyway as I feel it widens the edge-to-edge clarity a tad horizontally without actually impacting the sharpness staight ahead. I can only recommend those lens adapters (got mine from VR Optician, there's also Widmo VR and some others) to anyone who'd normally need glasses. BTW the prescription should be set just like normal glasses that you can look far with. Even though the display is close up to your eyes, the HMD lenses make the image appear as if it was in the distance in order to minimize eye strain when using such a device.

[@mersyndol]

Yes, upgrade. Wait for 12th gen and get yourself the 3000 series graphics card. Although, I had a Inno x4 Ichill 3080 Ti running "reverb g2" This vga blew up for an rtb. Heads up!

[@sweetwater5030]

Right on about the real world presents… i love the blacking out graphics. Check them out. I run a fan to cool myself , I get the red face but it keeps the sweat away. You don’t happen to work in plastics do you Phil?

[@armhunter]

I would have to disagree or lets say, maybe my headset doesn't have the setup issues you had/have. I have the Valve Index and I run DCS from Steam. It was a breeze setting up the headset and all the games work without issues on a one time setup. DCS is one click and it turns everything I need on, same with other games. Sorry you have issues with yours. Mine doesn't get hot and I don't ever sweat playing DCS. The vertigo you are talking about will eventually go away.. It completely went away for me after a couple weeks. get Vaicom.. no more keyboard and its possible to control the switches in the cockpit. I know not everyone can afford an amazing computer, so I agreed with you about having low quality graphics when running an older computer. But if you can run an up to date computer, the graphics are probably better than what you are thinking. After playing VR, I won't go back to Track Ir or a flat screen. No way! But again, Im running a computer with almost all the latest equipment. Your visual range is most likely limited to your 50% settings you have. I can see them much further than what you're describing.

[@baaamakingbaaaa]

Agree. I have the G2 and I heard it's a lot easier than the Index. Still a setup process of just a few minutes. I have never flown DCS in anything but VR and there's no way I'd consider a flat screen or trackir. OMG as I am writing this I am listening to how crazy the video is getting. WTF. 1km distance? With my 1080ti I can see an enemy aircraft at 20KM and ground targets even further. Someone has given this guy some wrong info on how to set up his g2.

[@armhunter]

@@baaamakingbaaaa agreed. Im not trying to make fun of the guy or say anything negative on his experience but he's making it sound like he has had a frustrating time. I was also shocked about the distance he only has when seeing an enemy. They show up around 30-40 miles on my screen but Im also running the setting with everything on Hi. And nothing comes close to the emersion the VR has in DCS. its freaking amazing.

[@philstyle]

@@baaamakingbaaaa The approx 1km distance referred to in the video is for making a correct type ID (that is, being able to tell the exact type of aircraft). It is NOT that range at which aircraft are seen (contact spotting). It seems you might have not heard the distinction. I am confident that you cannot visually make a correct ID at 20km. I tried to be very specific about the difference between "contact spotting" and "ID'ing" . . . . 22:03 (spotting and identification are two different things)

[@philstyle]

Viacom (and also voice attack) do not work for me, due to my accent. I've tried using it in the past and I spent too much time training the voice recognition. The warbirds also don't really have that many complex controls . . so viacom isn't really necessary, IMO.

[@philstyle]

Also, the connectivity issues with AMD mobos and the ReverbG2 are widely discussed. - www.pcmag.com/news/amd-locates-root-cause-of-usb-issues-on-b550-x570-motherboards - h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Gaming-Accessories/HP-Reverb-G2-not-detected-At-all-on-motherboard-or-USB/td-p/7884394 - www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-suggest-possible-fixes-for-usb-connectivity-issues

[@Alucard15423]

The current gen of VR headset is missing the killer feature that is foveated rendering. Once we get consumer headset with eye tracking and games and engines start allowing foveated rendering the strain on the pc hardware will be reduced by 60-90%. I hope we'll see some headset announcements by the end of the year. Until such a headset hits the market I'll stick with my old vive. Edit: As for getting more sensation of the plane out of VR. Have you ever heard of bass shaker mods or commercial products like the Buttkicker gamer 2?

[@JayRacer]

Phil, Have you tried using hat switches for cockpit interaction? I have heard of Sim Pilots doing this. I am currently awaiting my backordered x-56 so I haven’t been able to try this as I am limited to my competent yet basic Thrustmaster T. Flight Hotas X.

[@philstyle]

Of course, I certainly do.

[@JayRacer]

@@philstyle I’m talking about using the hat switches in place of a mouse to adjust dials and knobs.

[@philstyle]

@@JayRacer to move the cursor?

[@JayRacer]

@@philstyle I have seen some people have a dot to represent the cursor and then they hover over the dial/knob and adjust using the hat switch. I am pretty sure it was somebody with the Grim Reapers.

[@ATP-Flo]

The problems with usb you described are problems of the Reverb G2. HP recently announced that they send out adapters for free for people who have problems with the USB connection and in the new boxes these adapters are included. All in all the G2 has a good display but compared to other headsets like these from Oculus or Valve it has a much worse software and worse controllers/tracking. So I wouldn't recommend this headset for VR-beginners since it can be really frustrating when you compare it to an Oculus Quest.

[@LordGeorgeRodney]

Wonderful

[@rcpilot9963]

This all shows me that it is still better to stick with Track IR for about 1-2 years to wait for faster gpu's, better VR headsets and DCS optimalization for VR.

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Hi Phil, I'm in the process of switching over to DCS from IL2, or at least giving DCS a serious try. I'm mostly flying the Dora, I have been on Storm of War a couple times. I have two questions I can't figure out. 1. How do I end the mission? After I land I don't see any option to end and go to a debrief screen. I can exit the server or the game, but that doesn't seem right, I should be able to end and then see a debrief or summary. 2. How do I use the chat menu. I have looked both of these things up and can't find the answers. I have watched your videos and don't see a debrief screen, so maybe there isn't one. Thanks.

[@philstyle]

Hey man, DCS does not debreif your multiplayer sessions. So when you end your session it just cuts back to the menu. The sever does, however, publish player statistic on the storm of war website. www.stormofwar.info These stats usually take a few hours after a mission ends to populate. So consider it akin to waiting for the intelligence officer to finalize and submit their report. To open chat I *think* it is shift+tab but I don't quite recall. It is muscle memory for me. Someone else can probably answer. Feel free to jump on the sow discord, where getting questions answered will be much easier and quicker . I know you have quite a few fans there who would be delighted .

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

@@philstyle Awesome, thanks. I'm on my way to Storm of War now. I'll see if I can figure out the chat, if not, no big deal. I like your videos, I plan to watch all of them.

[@benjamincompton9767]

Havent even watched yet but I would say that vr is the most immersive, but you will fly better with head tracking. That's my experience anyway. Just because you dont have to actually turn round and look back with head tracking.

[@broworm1]

Regarding the section on performance/visual quality, did you feature the background footage with the settings you would run in 3d?

[@schlagsahnett5532]

Hey phil, I have a question, should I get the fw190d or the bf109 k4 as my first warbird? Would be nice if you would answer because I can `t decide

[@leokov]

109 is a much better fighter and 190 is a more capable striker and bomber killer.

[@schlagsahnett5532]

@@leokov and what would you take if you would like to do all those kind of things a bit ?

[@ATP-Flo]

Fly a helicopter mission (e.g. land a Huey on an oil platform) with TrackIR and after that do it again in VR. This will tell you, which is better. Spoiler alert: The VR experience is so much more immersive and intuitive that you will fly better and also feel like a much better pilot. 😄 TrackIR has it's benefits but when you have tried VR once and got it working fine there is no going back in my opinion.

[@_od_7825]

I've had the same issues with the G2 USB port, I can't tell you why it happens. However, I will say that the G2 is the most annoying headset to set up compared to the Oculus headsets that I had previously. The Rift-S was dead easy, there was next to nothing to do and getting the settings right was a doddle compared to the G2. Oculus do that side of things so much better than Windows Mixed Reality and Steam VR. I really don't like Steam VR, but it's a requirement for DCS and IL2. I found a little USB desk fan solves the heat issue and prevents misting up and sweating. I have found that some hotter summer evenings I won't go on VR because I don't want the headset on. As for looking around, it's so much better than Track IR. I'm playing in 1v1 guns dogfight competitions and having absolutely no issues in keeping track of targets, you get a far better idea of what the aircraft is doing and it's far better for peripheral vision and deflection shooting. I'm having no issue beating people using Track IR with high resolution monitors and exceptional systems. There's no way I'd go back to my Track IR, but I can see why it's used for video recording. I'd recommend not using a headset on top of your VR set. Use the speakers and mic in the G2 for comms and have some speakers for the sound. You soon get used to not needing to look down your nose for the keyboard. Use Voice Attack and you'll also find that you get used to the muscle memory of where things are around you. I'm using two button boxes, MFDs and HOTAS, it takes more than a month though. I run a lower GPU than you, 1080ti, I'll post a link to my settings, I don't have an issue with the visual radius that you have. I have no issue with the spotting or ID of the aircraft either. 79vraf.wordpress.com/2021/03/21/hp-reverb-g2-settings-gtx1080ti-intel-9700k-32gb-ddr4-ram/ I'd say there is a much better field of view in VR than on a monitor. There's no way you can look at the whole of a monitor to be able to see things in the same way as you can see things in VR. I don't understand how you're getting canopy framing in the way. It's far far worse on a monitor, with stereoscopic vision you should be able to see past things all the time. I've found flying the Fw190 so much better in VR because the cockpit framing isn't so extreme and it is easier to see around things. IL2 is better for not allowing you to stick your head through the canopy though. From the sounds of things, you need a bit more time working on your settings. I'm running the G2 at full resolution. I'd be happy to talk through my settings with you :) Optimisations wise it's meant to be CPU limitations more than GPU, DCS is only using the one-core and it's meant to be where the restrictions come in on the performance. I have run a 3080 for a couple of days, but it was faulty and it's had to be sent back, but it was a lot smoother and made a big improvement in the settings, but I am back to my 1080Ti and I'm still very happy with it. Try out IL2 and you'll see how well VR can work, I never used to promote it at all, but it is exceptional for VR and WW2. However, it sounds like your settings are far too low and that you're chasing high FPS rather than quality. If you can hover around 45FPS in the G2 you'll be absolutely fine. Also, if you want the sensations that you talk about, try one of the helicopters on a two-week trial and you'll feel your stomach turn over as you're hovering close to the ground.

[@philstyle]

Very solid comment!

[@lthanni]

My Odyssey+ has the same issue with ports. Maybe it’s a windows mixed reality thing? I’d like to hear if people with the Index have this issue.

[@_od_7825]

@@lthanni it’s quite annoying. It comes up with Error code ‘something’-14 and I end up restarting the PC a couple of times and it works fine. Really stupidly the USB-C cable doesn’t work in the USB-C port. I have to use the adapter. It’s a really good headset, but the linkages are poor.

[@lthanni]

@@_od_7825 so I joined a VR discord and asked in other headsets had that problem. Apparently these issues are unique to Windows VR, while the Index is totally fine.

[@keithwaterhouse2845]

Good explanation, I want to get into this but I'm looking at the expense as well as the tech skill in setting up and thinking track IR is simple and cheap but how long would it hold me before I wanted to switch to VR. Any input here would be very welcome.

[@philstyle]

I happily used TiR for years. It is fine, really, especially to get started.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

TrackIR used to be a good option to "hat switch" but now days its very overpriced, in fact there are VR headsets that costs not even the double of the TrackIR. The issue is that you need a good PC with high end GPU in VR, while you can have great experience with lesser powered PC and TrackIR. Oculus stopped production of Quest 2 64GB version in favor of Quest 2 128GB for same entry level price of 299USD while TrackIR track clip PRo (you need track clip PRO) bundle sets you back with 169,95USD.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

The Quest 2 (the new 128GB version is enough unless you want to hoard all your Quest Store games, movies or record footage directly on the device) really is a bang for the buck king here. Has the highest res right after the Reverb G2 and comes with the advantage that you can use it wirelessly (Elite headstrap with power brick or niVRana power brick heavily recommended though), but also with Link cable (get that one from VR Cover, it's still 60 bucks, but very high quality). Unless you run into connection problems to your PC, the setup of that headset is very easy and DCS runs though the Oculus API directly, so you don't even have to mess with SteamVR or even WMR things at all. The great thing, being wireless, is that it's ideal for any other VR experience like Half-Life: Alyx. And you can have some great VR fun even without a PC, while being on vacation for example. There's currently Ultrawings and Warplanes: WWI Fighters available for those who need some flying stuff running natively on a Quest. They're both good fun, but of course, nothing close to DCS.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@CakePrincessCelestia tnx for better explanation. I will just add that HP USA has now the Reverb G2 with new 2.0 cable in the store for 450USD+shipping. So if Keith has Win10 its a good option since the cable 2.0 is solving the issue AMD systems have with connection as mentioned by phil. Now the install is not that bad, have latest Win10 update, install windows mixed reality for Steam, install SteamVR, connect the Reverb G2, set VR boundaries and you ready to roll. Of course to maximize the experience watch tutorials to fine tune the settings according to sim you are using.

[@VR_Aviator]

Great video phil! I'm personally biased towards VR and I want to address a few things from the video if you don't mind. Why would you drop the built in audio? By most accounts the off ear speakers are incredible and could alleviate your feeling of isolation while in VR. There is an option in DCS to have the mouse cursor controlled by the HMD and have mouse buttons assigned to controllers. I find this less intrusive than looking for and using a mouse in VR. We are combat flight simmers. We are used to setting up hardware. As far as I'm concerned, setting up a VR headset is much easier and less time consuming than setting up most flight sim hardware. I'm fortunate enough to have a ceiling capable of supporting overhead cable management which is awesome.

[@philstyle]

I will only reply to the audio question. I have a studio quality sound card and earphones. I am not going to let them sit idle. The G2 headset audio is light years away from the quality of my audio hardware .

[@johngisbourne7197]

same, the VR goggle audio can't match a proper set of headphones. Sennheiser HD 650 here.

[@ATP-Flo]

Actually we don't need better hardware. I have said RTX3090 (+ Ryzen 9 3900X) and in VR it most of the time is chilling at around 60-70% usage while on almost max settings and it is highly undervolted (not overclocked). The change from GTX1080 to RTX3090 was noticeable but probably more because of the VRAM (and microstutters) than of the rendering performance. DCS ist just very shitty optimized for VR (!) and needs software improvements. I say Vulcan will change the VR performance massively. This isn't just a hardware thing. I also have TrackIR and the RTX3090 is utilized to 100% while resolution is obviously lower. So that's the proof that it is a DCS VR problem. Other games do not have these performance drops and misutilization problems.

[@TheSparrowLooksUp]

Do you remove your hand from the stick to manipulate the mouse?

[@shaynesymonds109]

1000th like 🎉

[@rustyshackleford2841]

G2 owner, clarity is just not there for me in ww2. I’m a graphics slut, on modern jets I love it and can’t play without vr anymore. For ww2 I go to my track ir. I fly warbirds in vr against AI or just a free flight. For formation flight practice is the best. Overall I love flying in vr.