The Sorcadin Catch-22 - D&D: Optimized #57

[@jagondal8378]

This build lets you turn the tables on your DM. Burn all of your to-hit features: "Does a 42 hit?" Also: You must yell "fore" on your nova round.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha!

[@sweetbro1642]

Cloud of Daggers: You fill the air with spinning daggers in a cube 5 feet on each side, centered on a point you choose within range. A creature takes 4d4 slashing damage when it enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there. Plain english, you cannot argue they wouldn't take damage when they start their turn, unless you're trying to say they didn't start their turn in the cloud, in which case you should try this ttrpg called sanity.

[@TheRobversion1]

yup. alot of people just are looking for ways to nerfbat anything that deals dmg.

[@dungeondojo]

Yeah I was just coming here to say exactly what you did. It's indisputable. The language is as clear as can be in 5E. :)

[@AgentForest]

Yeah, the spell is specifically stating there are two situations in which people take damage: A. They enter the cloud for the first time on ***a*** turn B. They start ***their*** turn there This means that if it's their turn, they take damage for being in it. However, if on anyone else's turn, they are moved INTO this cloud of daggers, they then would take damage. My DM for my current game would also argue that this would include the moment you cast the spell, meaning he'd let you just cast the spell on top of them to begin with, since that's the first time they entered the cloud that turn, then they'd take damage subsequently on their own turn from then on. Unless moved out and back in on someone else's turn, but that's harder to manage, lol.

[@TheRobversion1]

@@AgentForest the way your DM rules it isn't RAW. casting the spell on top of an enemy doesn't mean they enter it. but hey, if it's a homebrew rule that sides with the player i'm all for it. but yeah raw they'd have to be pushed into the cloud of daggers when you cast it.

[@AgentForest]

@@TheRobversion1 If casting a spell doesn't count as entering it for the first time, most AoE spells would be pretty awful. As Jeremy Crawford said: "When a spell's description uses "enter" in relation to an AoE, the entering has to be voluntary only if the text says so." ONLY if the text says so. These spells don't say so. There are spells that deal damage when entering for the first time on a turn and if you end your turn there (like Wall of Fire). If they didn't deal damage the first time you enter one on a turn, then it would be possible for you to cast Wall of Fire on an enemy, and on their turn they could walk out of it and never have gotten hurt. In what world would that make sense? So while you can't grapple a player, drag them into Wall of Fire or Cloud of Daggers hurting them, then drag them out of it and back in on the same turn, you CAN still hurt them by putting them into it for the first time, and this includes at the time of casting. The main limitation is that they can't get hurt twice by the same spell on the same turn, but that doesn't mean only once per round.

[@Jacob-sb3su]

I would like to see a live stream of you making a build based off of rolled stats. Maybe every month or so do a live stream of your though process upon seeing a rolled stats block, might be interesting!

[@joshuawinestock9998]

Could even roll stats in order, for extra surprise... ;)

[@karolkolbiarz8421]

Good idea would love to see this

[@tingtaiji]

What would be amazing is epic-level one shots with the character created

[@kafka6666]

For added fun, in addition to the stats roll for a random feat at level 1 that the build has to use

[@storyspren]

I love that even when optimizing a build as far as this one, there's still room to just go "screw it, haven't done Bard in a while"

[@DnDDeepDive]

lol right!? Sometimes you just gotta do what sounds fun, and find a way to make it work :)

[@mr.stormhaven5733]

Always enjoy any build that has Sorcerer and Paladin, huge personal favorites, and the Cloud of Daggers + Booming Blade bit had me going, really enjoy all of the content.

[@xp1446]

“I am sheathed in booming energy :(“ Lmao love it

[@BLynn]

Whoo-hoo! Level 1:(see above) [paladin 1, race & feat] Level 2:(see above) [paladin 2 & fighting-style] Level 3:(@13:37) [sorcerer 1 & sub-class] Level 4:(@16:47) [sorcerer 2] Level 5:(@17:31) [sorcerer 3 & meta-magic] Level 6:(@22:32) [sorcerer 4 & ASI] Level 7:(see above) [fighter 1 & fighting-style] Level 8:(@28:56) [fighter 2] Level 9:(@30:51) [fighter 3 & sub-class] Level 10:(see above) [bard 1] Level 11:(@42:20) [bard 2] Level 12:(@43:14) [bard 3 & sub-class] Level 13:(@45:40) [bard 4 & ASI] Level 14:(see above) [bard 5] Level 15:(@48:27) [paladin 3 & sub-class] Level 16:(@50:55) [paladin 4 & ASI] Level 17:(@52:01) [paladin 5]

[@Farron6]

The first minute intro is the best most heartwarming intro to a video I've watched. I had to get a cup of tea, a biscuit, a blanket just to match the cosy intro.

[@peterlochmaier5887]

Would love to see an enchanting character (maybe enchanting wizard) that focuses solely on control and getting enemies to either attack each other or be stunned/incapacitated. I know it’s a bit outside of the normal optimization, but maybe you could measure it by how reliably you can make enemies lose their turn or by how effectively you can get enemies to fail saves?

[@DnDDeepDive]

On the list!

[@10lightshow]

I did this for an Out of the Abyss campaign. Devils tongue Tiefling, Wizard-Enchanter / lore bard. Named him Interesting. And wow has that name resonated well beyond that campaign. 😆

[@Krookinator]

This has to be my favourite build you have done in a long long time! I got sucked into the Sorlock build and is currently at lvl 4 in AL with a variant of it, but what bugs me is the ”excuses” or messy explainations for the warlock dip ”storywise” in that - I ended up just playing off of the ”being inspired by another warlock in the group who seemed powerful and badass and so I got pulled into the hexblade patron via that character”. For this character a clear idea burst into my head off the bat! Throw away the ”classes” concept entierly in the personal story - you the character is growing into a champion of your god! If the custom lineage is allowed go with that you are a champion of a (as you hinted towards) viking/northern style god. You are big tall and strong, and as you advance and grow throughout your travels you mold into this demigodlilke warrior, the magic awakened withinyou granted by the god who for the first 10 levels boost your combat prowess. This is also your source for the Runes(this just screams Norse mythology). Your mission this far have been just to grow and learn, for a greater destiny awaits you further down the line. Once you are at the levels where you start taking bardlevels you have ”advanced” beyond a soldier, you now become something more, a symbol and source for inspiration and bravery. You are now practicly the demigod and champion you where ment to be, and you are almost ready to swear your oath of conquest - your true destiny now awaits you. Needs to be fleshed out but id go with something along theese lines :)

[@DnDDeepDive]

Love it!

[@sayatostride6593]

Thank you.. My DnD circle never played beyond 10th level, so it is really a blessing to have someone bringing up build that can be used by that levels

[@gregkaye5583]

"I miss monks - but I digress," classic Colby.

[@DnDDeepDive]

ha ha!

[@GhostCastle88]

Been watching for a little while now. I played my first session (started level 3) doing this concept and boy is it a lot of fun. Our DM for this game wants us to almost be super hero strong so I have some other stuff that makes the build even better, but the core of it is super satisfying. The hardest part thus far is just having the other party members not outright kill stuff that *would’ve* died when forced to move (or had their turn skipped). Thanks for the great content!!

[@doxjr6979]

The Words of Terror feature is quite niche, but i am actually playing a whispers bard/soul knife rogue (Wilks) that used it in an interrogation. As a very very brief note, Wilks is quite spooky themed as you might have guessed, and carries with him a mirror. When he looks in the mirror he sees himself, but dead, and the souls of dead people. The party had captured an evil baron that had information we wanted, so my spooky boi told everyone in the party to wait outside. He entered the room that the baron was being held, and started with basic questions. He checked to make sure no one was eavesdropping, and then told the baron that if it was up to Wilks he'd already be dead. That no one would be able to stop Wilks from killing him. And he then showed the baron his mirror, where he saw a whole mad house of fun. They failed, and promptly spilled the beans on a whole bunch of stuff we'd been chasing down for quite a while. Overall, it's a feature i probably wont use again for a long time, but when it works it's something else.

[@DnDDeepDive]

ooo... love it!

[@JefCollier]

I *too* love the SoulKnife+Whispers for flavor stacking the uniquely mechanicked and yet same named features of the two. Is it optimal? No. It's just cool AF that you get to walk around unarmed and still pull this out of your "sleeve."

[@TheRobversion1]

ooh it's out! excited for this! watching and will comment as i go along. thanks for the shoutout! i appreciate the recognition. and yeah it's "ve-ra." you got it right! :) and yes agreed about the beauty of dnd, we can have the same concept and come up with different builds or have the same builds but have totally different concepts. just to repost the same build if others were curious (same tactics, different build)". level 10 theorycraft as always. "cloud of blades" rune knight 3, divine sorc 5, grave cleric 2 (wild magic sorc is fine if you want some fun) custom lineage: crusher, gwm fighting style: superior technique- menacing attack (precision attack is fine too) runes: cloud, fire metamagic: seeking spell, quickened spell key spells: booming blade, cloud of daggers, guidance, shield, absorb elements tactics: pre-combat: repeat casting guidance for initiative bonus 1st round: bonus action: quickened upcasted 4th level cloud of daggers behind the bbeg action: path to the grave the bbeg move to the bbeg action surge: menacing crusher booming blade the enemy into the cloud of daggers reaction: cloud rune/shield/absorb elements as needed opponents turn: they take cloud of dagger's dmg. activate gwm, fire rune. use seeking spell and/or favored of the gods in case you roll low. dmg report: 2d6 (maul) + 4 (str) + 10 (gwm) + 1d8 (booming blade) + 1d6 (menacing attack) + 2d6 (fire rune) = 36 then path of the grave doubles that to 72 average dmg. then we add the entry cloud of daggers dmg adds 20 average dmg. for a total of 92 dmg on your turn. at the start of the opponents' turn that's another 20 average dmg for a total now of 112 average dmg. if the opponent decides to stay in the cloud of daggers, the dmg report stops there. if they move out then they take an additional 9 average dmg from booming blade for a total of 121 average dmg on round 1. this is also assuming they make the save on fire rune and using a non-magical weapon. with a magical weapon this gets better. a simple +2 maul jumps this up to 125 average dmg on round 1. and as you've said colby, the build can function as a backup healer. and the menacing attack is a nice debuff to boost the party's defense for 1 round just in case the enemy is still alive. great variation (using divine smite to boost the dmg) Colby! something i'll consider with own build. thoroughly enjoyed the vid! my kind of build. and yes, words of terror doesn't see much use. haha. :)

[@DnDDeepDive]

Interesting... I originally planned on going Grave Cleric, but balked at the Wis needed for multiclass. Also, I don't like that the CoD damage and BB damage from moving wouldn't benefit from Path to the Grave. Still effective though!

[@TheRobversion1]

@@DnDDeepDive yeah grave cleric just adds more than smite for 1 hit, especially the more dmg add ons you have like mine had gwm early. it's entirely plausible though for the smite version to overtake at higher spells levels as you have higher smites and more attacks with smite due to extra attack. as far as the wis requirement, yeah it forced me to dump dex and wear heavy armor (which you know i don't like as i like to stealth with most my builds). so this is a non-stealth, lower initiative build. the ability spread i did was: str: 15+2 dex: 10 con: 12 int: 8 wis: 14 cha: 13 going wild magic can help the initiative with using tides of chaos + guidance (then tides of chaos gets reset once you cast of cloud of daggers to get you advantage on that 1 attack) but it also opens you up to some randomness which could screw with your combo. or perhaps take it to higher heights. such are the perils of wild magic. ;)

[@TarninTheGreat]

This is essentially the character that I've been playing in my normal weekly game for the last two years! Until this week that is (tl;dr, she's a winter wolf for the foreseeable future). But the elements from this build that she didn't use are built into the character that replaced her. :-D She was a Divine Soul 1, Hexblade 1, Ancients Paladin X, until Tasha's came out where we all got a respec, after which she was Rune Knight 3, Hexblade 2, Divine Soul the rest of the way. She did a lot of similar things, but since Crusher wasn't around when I started her, she used a longsword and shield instead. She also ended up with a bloodwell vial (5 extra sorcery points) and the water elemental gem thing from tasha's. Instead of concentrating on Cloud of Daggers, it was Spirit Guardians (Eventually it'd've been summon celestial), and instead of pushing with crusher, she was pushing with eldritch blasts and the water gem. So my burst turns were "booming blade, bonus action eldritch blast (trigger water gem), action surge eldritch blast/greenflame blade. She was really action economy hungry though, shield/absorb elements alongide the rune-knight things (I took the reaction speed hold-person instead of the redirect since she was the party face and really needed advantage on insight and better darkvision.) and just being in melee, all made her reaction EXTREMELY valuable, and healing word, shield of faith, and quickened spells made her bonus action really stressed as well (The rest of the party is very squishy, and we have no healer, so I ended up making myself the primary target for attacks most turns as well). 100% the most fun I've had with a character in 5e, and I'd love to watch you playing someone similar. Her replacement has a lot of weird class choices to fit the narrative that she's being dumped into, but will end up using crusher in conjunction with the genie-warlock-1 ability to add bludgeoning damage to attack-roll cantrips and enlarge/reduce and cloud of daggers to do the things that this build is doing, just in more of a ranger/trapper shell. ((If she makes it to the end of the campaign without my other character becoming a PC again, she'll be artificer-battlesmith 4, genie warlock 1, Bladesinger 7, Ranger (haven't yet decided subclass, likely hunter, gloomstalker, or fey wanderer, it depends on where the story is at that point) 4, Fighter (psi knight) 4 by the end (Yes, this campaign is expected to go into and past 20th level) with crusher, polearm master, and war caster (we'll see if I can talk my DM into elven accuracy at 20, but probably not).)) Anywho, love your videos/channel/friends/you. Keep up the awesome!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Awesome! thanks!

[@shenpai1566]

I've seen Words of Terror used to great effect in a political campaign (arguably a Whispers bard's home turf). The most memorable instance was when the bard orchestrated the death of one of the king's most trusted advisors and took his place, using Words of Terror right before a negotiation to cause the king to be terrified of the enemy leader, who the party supported. The bard really went in on how cautious the king should be, emphasizing his rival's fearsome reputation, etc. It resulted in the king bowing to demands he normally would never have accepted and changed the course of the campaign. Very cool.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Holy Wormtongue!

[@atran3785]

I would love a mini series of you showing off books from your collection

[@honorablevalor6337]

Colby recommended The Lies of Locke Lemora on my last book related comment. Ended up enjoying all 3 books.

[@Daijinthetripod]

@@honorablevalor6337 The Gentleman Bastard sequence is AMAZING, if you would like other fantasy recommendations, I can possibly help lol Glad to see other fantasy readers out in the wild :)

[@honorablevalor6337]

@@Daijinthetripod Always looking for new ones. I do enjoy the fact that I have known every book reference made on this channel thus far.

[@zach415]

Cloud of daggers deals damage when a creature, AND I QUOTE, “enters the spell’s area for the first time on A turn or starts its turn there.” So yes your interpretation is valid. This is also a good way to deal with a significantly stronger enemy

[@jeffreystorry7597]

Long time watcher, just wanna say I love the concept builds. Highly entertaining and creative. Keep it up I love it and I can tell you do to!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks!

[@joshtargo6834]

cloud of daggers is the poor man's spike growth

[@jaredpuwalski8545]

I really like that you make use of cloud of daggers since I’ve always thought of it as weak but a cool concept. Booming blade is great for setting up catch 22 situations.

[@TheRobversion1]

definitely not weak. it's one of the best entry spells in the game though i'd say it gets replaced by wall of fire once you can do 4th level spells.

[@theonlymatthew.l]

I would have named it the "No Save For You!!!" build. (Seinfeld 'Soup N@z!'). I honestly laughed a couple of times when you were describing the manner and the amount of damage an enemy would take from this build. I'm normally not a fan of Nova build's. I love theorycrafting but that's just not a play style I usually gravitate to. This is the exception, I really want to play this character. I'm a big fan of your entire channel, keep up the excellent work! 👍

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! And I love the alternative name :D

[@MachineWraith]

In putting together a copy of this build, I decided to go a different route for the character's background and motivations. I imagined a world where giants once reigned supreme, but their empire fell long ago. These ancient giants were bordering on godhood themselves, such was their power. This character is a descendent of those mighty giants, and a historian dedicated to preserving whatever he can of their empire. As such, I used a custom background using the features of the Archaeologist, but granting Perception and History proficiency. I used the Bard's expertise to get double proficiency in both Perception and History, making me not terrible at them even though my stats would have otherwise.

[@Josh_Alfaro]

awesome build Colby, my favorite gish character. I’m sure this has been said already but with 3 levels of sorcerer and 2 Paladin, you could just quicken spell hold person then auto-crit smite at 2nd level. That’s already like 6d8 damage plus your weapon and strength damage.

[@holladiewaldfee7132]

The enemy has to fail the save -> your cha isnt that high. So that might be the biggest problem here.

[@mattmoloch1212]

Great stuff once again, thanks to Colby & Rob Vera........second the motion for a pdf build book compendium.

[@TheRobversion1]

Appreciate the recognition. :)

[@TildeQ]

For your battle master maneuver, menacing attack can be great if you ever got conquest paladin's aura, causing them to get stuck in the cloud of daggers.

[@DnDDeepDive]

100%

[@wildhaggis3974]

Having played a rune knight with a wizard team up holding enemies in an aoe DMG area is always great fun

[@BrandonPatrk317]

I love the Rune Knight. Liked the UA better, but still . . .

[@Dodgeballkinq]

The subtle editing in this video was on point.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thank you! It took forever but I was admittedly proud of how it turned out, so I appreciate the nod :P

[@demiurgevess5464]

Thank you for this beautiful build. This is now my Favorit.

[@AgentForest]

LOL, I made a build for a Sorcadin Loxodon sorta like this. His Cloud of Daggers spell is flavored as a spiraling column of iridescent shards, as if a stained glass window had shattered and got caught in a cyclone. He calls it down with a quickened spell, then grapples enemies to hold them in it, and begins beating them with a hammer. He also uses Armor of Agathys (Oath of Conquest) and Fire Shield (Sorcerer) to punish anyone who tries to stop him from what he's doing, lol. His name is Aalor the Anvil, and he's a himbo.

[@genitalhermes1346]

Just wanted to clarify around booming blade and dissonant whispers. While DisWhis isn't movement like crusher, it also isn't "willing" movement required to activate BBs secondary damage. JC has clarified this in a tweet (as divisive as that might be), and what he says is consistent with RAI and RAW. A lot of people assume that the requirements to provoke an AoO is the same as activating BB, as neither are "forced" movement. However the PHB entry for AoO is specific in requiring using "movement, action, or reaction." AoO doesn't mention anything about "forced" movement, but just states effects that push a player back such as explosions, shove, etc, don't provoke opportunity attacks. Players tend to delineate movement as either "Willing" or "forced" movement as if that means anything in 5e, and suggest that if it isn't one then it must be the other ("forced movement" was a term in 4e, however has never been a rule in 5e). So while DissWhis still causes an AoO (uses targets reaction) it is very clear it is not willing movement per plain language, and thusly does not activate secondary damage. While "running away," from DissWhis is clearly not willing and as stated would not actually activate the secondary damage, it is still useful by incentivizing the creature to move back into range and then activate the secondary damage. It's also likely that many DMs wouldn't care to parse this common misconception and run it as he describes.

[@liamconnor9235]

I think a really cool build idea is based on the Dhampir bite and all it’s shenanigans. With Swords bard, you can use them as a spellcasting focus and a weapon for your blade flourishes, becoming a frontliner with decent AC, Defensive Flourish, high CON for the bite, and healing capabilities. Maybe a Swords bardadin?

[@DnDDeepDive]

will write it down :).

[@Haveuseenmyjetpack]

Will it blend?? 🤣 just saw this in the description. I love it.

[@fabbit89]

Regular Algorithm Bump#22 - i feel exactly what you are saying in the preamble. at some stage you played a lot or maybe most of the combinations and classes. but they never feel the same if you just change your approach towards them.

[@kevinncr5079]

Oooh, College of Whispers' Psychic Blades damage is very interesting with a Soul knife rogue. Thank you!!

[@MyRegularNameWasTaken]

This is such a fun goofy concept that's brought to its extreme in the best way! I love it too

[@simon4910]

I really liked your preamble this time, just a nice little reminder that not all builts have to be exactlly the same to fullfill a specific role as best as possible. Love your shirt!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks!

[@cornycornsnake]

Can you make an entire team of “when push comes to shove“ for a one shot fight? including cheese grater, catch 22, and possibly your runeknight from treemonk special or the flamethrower? I think they would synergize well since some of Battlefield control damage spells will stack (cloud of daggers over spike growth anyone?)

[@dienezdarcprowlyr9406]

In a party with a cheese grater, thornlock, and flame sorceror, last week we stumbled i. To the nasty combination. We are 7th level. Hunger of hadar, with spike growth in same ares and a ring of wall of fire around the area. Enemy was running blindly out of void blackness of spikey growth right into the wall of fire. Averaging 2d6 cold, 2d5 acid, 6d4 spike, 5d8 fire. And then knocked back in by eldritch blast or held in fire by thornlock.

[@michaelpace951]

Loved the build! Super cool use of booming blade with crusher. An idea of a possible build might if you're interested could be a regeneration/temp HP build. Where you can gain healing via combat. Some ideas include the dhampir race, artillerist protector temp HP cannon, the reconstruction mutagen from blood hunter, or the beast barbarian bite. Excited to see the next build!

[@DnDDeepDive]

I've got this on the to do list :)

[@swifts4451]

Love your videos. I had an interesting idea for a build I am playing that I havent seen before. I'm only level 2 though so far though. The idea is to utilize the fall damage mechanic, but you can do it at earlier levels. You go beast barbarian, but I would maybe take 1 level first. Then 2 levels of moon druid. Get the moorbounder wildshape. It has 20 foot base jump height, and high strength. Druid also has the jump spell that doesn't require concentration. At level 3. You can precast jump before combat. Rage, wildshape, advantage on grapple, then jump in the air with the target and let them go. You take half the fall damage from fall from raging. + you have the bonus hp from wildshape. You go beast barbarian 6 for the jumping feature to roll advantage raging athletics jump to add somewhere around 20 more jump height that gets tripled. So by level 8, you can now jump around 120 feet on average in the air. That's 12d6 damage. I could see this getting optimized further. Feel free to use the idea if you'd like. I think it could be fun.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! Will put this on the list :).

[@blenden1000]

And Monk(his favorite class) for that falling feature^

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@blenden1000 Naturally.

[@ClintonJohnson1]

Words of terror also lets you make the creature frightened of someone else instead. I was just starting out a 2 session campaign and decided to make the captain of the airship we were on afraid of one of my soon to be companions as a joke. It definitely worked.

[@Xander.arclander]

Perfect timing. Wanted to make a sorcadin for next weeks game. and here you are with just what i am looking for^^

[@ddtalks2821]

(29:25) - Knock back reach: OPT - You could supplement this with Race = Bugbear (whom gets a reach of 10' so knocking back 5' still puts them in range, or use a weapon that has reach - instead of maul)

[@tylllllllluuuuuurrrr]

Its ridiculous, and I love the Image of golf swinging an enemy into a magical buzz saw.

[@TheRobversion1]

same. then the "oh shit" look on the enemy's face.

[@the_sigil4340]

Well that's one crazy build ! Very fun to imagine the fight. The enemy must be "wtf is going on" as your giant paladin holds their face in a cloud of daggers he created a second ago

[@deanvine8981]

If you go conquest, you can choose between a +10 to hit or +2d4 per short rest. Gives a bit more consistency per fight.

[@zikkthegreat]

i’m mining these builds for ideas for my NPC villains. this one is gonna be fun 😈

[@andrewhalmo656]

Came up with a fun concept that uses cloud of daggers and some monk levels. It ends up being an anime/street fighter type character. It’s not super optimal and wouldn’t come fully on line till 11th level, but I think Colby would love it. I’ll show you it at level 13 so it can be compare with his builds. Take the bugbear race with 3 open hand monk/ 5 battle master/ 5 warlock and takings the unarmed fighting style and the crusher feat. First action surge to cast CoD next to an enemy, then do your flurry of blows. Attack with the push attack battle maneuver using a staff pushing them 10ft though CoD. Run around to the other side and do another push attack, but just 5ft into CoD. Use your bonus action to do an uppercut like Ryu and send them flying up 5ft, while simultaneously using the open hand technique to add 15ft more. They then fall 20ft and take 2d6 falling damage and fall prone. Then kick them while they are down. Since you are a bugbear you get the sneak attack damage on every attack as well as having the long reach, so you end 10ft away. If they get up and attack you, then use the Brace maneuver to push them back into the CoD with crusher. You end up using 3 battle maneuvers, pushing them 4 times into CoD, causing fall damage, and hitting them 5 times (4 of them with surprise attack). I came up with over 150 damage, but that’s using the simple math without calculating AC and saving throw saves.

[@prestonjones9167]

If you wanted to not have to worry about the risk of pushing your opponent into the cloud on the second attack, or have to deal with stepping away afterwards, you could try to pick up the Lunging Attack Battle Maneuver, gives 5ft of extra reach and a superiority die to damage on the attack. Granted if this is what you pick up with the Martial Adept feat you could only do it once per short rest but could be worth considering :)

[@marcducorsky8736]

Brace maneuver to push the guy back into the cloud of daggers. USe for action surge. Hold action to attack target if he moves out of the cloud of daggers towards you.

[@TiasVsEverything]

I feel very, very seen by that aside at 8:30… not sure if you were thinking of a prior exchange we had when you said it, but it definitely threw me back to it. Fun fact, if the closed captions are to be believed, we not have footage of you saying “genocides are cool”

[@DnDDeepDive]

lol

[@darkblade190]

Interesting build, I might have to make a version of this for one of my AL groups. I have an idea for a future build, can you try optimizing a build focusing around as much damage from a single weapon strike? I became obsessed with this build when I realized you can activate divine smite, and Eldritch Smite on the same attack. My best version so far is Paladin 2/Hexblade 11/Assassin 7, stacking Booming Blade, Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, Sneak Attack, and Banishing Smite on the same attack. You could probably also take the Martial Adept feature to add a Superiority die to this.

[@RayPoreon]

If your gm allows you to carry, but not wield, two handed weapons in one hand, then after making your attack you can shift your weapon to one hand and draw a whip, so if they run away you can get an attack of opportunity. The whip does slashing damage for some reason though so you can't chuck them back into the daggers with it. While it seems like it would be a simple fix of sticking some rocks or metal balls on the end of it to get a long flail, there's not any official support for weapon modifications of such a kind.

[@matttownsend8406]

So this is very similar to a build I’ve been wanting to play which punishes people attacking me, it’s conquest parading/divine soul sorcerer. You use polarm master in conjunction with a quarter staff and warcaster. When they approach you they provoke aoo, which you booming blade, now they choose do they stop moving or not, with crusher it means you could stack booming blade effects one from knockback and the second on the reaction, as in order to provoke the reaction they have to have moved already which means you can hit them, push them back into the cloud of daggers with a refreshed booming blade. With armour of Agathys and eventually flame shield if they still got for you they get damage in return. The other combo in this is the blind fighting fighting style paired with any spell that blinds enemy, they can’t see you but you can see them so advantage and no aoo when moving as they can’t see you.

[@frederickcoen7862]

I know I'm a little late to this party, but wow... I want to play this character! I'm about to play a Paladin 6 / Genie Tomelock 3 (because Tragic Backstory... missing sister... deal with a Marid...) that is all about walking around empty-handed, pulling out a stick, and smiting someone with a Shillelagh. But now I'm craving Crusher and Cloud of daggers and bard levels and sorc levels... ah!! This just seems like so much fun! What a great build!

[@chacepassmore6474]

This is my favorite build yet Colby!

[@Hyde_Hill]

4 levels of divine soul sorcerer and rest vengeance paladin was my first character. So much fun, options and near unkillable. Started as a one level dip for Shield, Absorb Elements, Favored by the gods and cantrips. Took the other 3 later for meta magic. Can see it doing it earlier depending on the campaign but I was main tank so needed the HP. And currently running an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer with one level of Warlock. Which does include that booming blade, quickened Dissonant Whispers combo.

[@robertochacon5338]

thanks for explaining Catch 22!!! Greetings from Costa Rica

[@gregkaye5583]

I love the thematic reasoning given for custom lineage. :D

[@T-mobol]

8:28 auto generated subtitles reads: "genocides are cool" Whoopsie!

[@DnDDeepDive]

D’oh!

[@SM-rn4qe]

Love the build, love the whispers college. You could do 5 lvls of warlock hexblade for 2 3rd lvl spell slots on short rests, hexblades curse, hex, thirsting blade, eldritch smite and an asi.

[@andrewburchett9783]

I'm glad I am not the only one that thought of this build :) While mine is a bit different as its more on lock down, with Echo knight instead of Rune and Wizard paladin combo. Wizard for blade singer for booming blade/attack. However i never thought of crusher I'm gonna try it out and see the damage difference.

[@PirateTrowel85]

Story idea. Your character is creating their own Bladesinging style based of Runic magic of a deity they've researched. During the initial research they accidentally screwed up the containing/releasing of devine runic magic, forever more staining there soul with sorcerous power. This needs tweaking/expanding to get the college of whispers to mesh properly within this idea

[@dwightweiers830]

Cloud of daggers is awesome on a nautical campaign. It can wreak havoc on a moving ship’s deck.

[@DJWidget]

Love the Thor/Sword in the Stone crossover shirt!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Right!? My favorite Marvel character + My favorite Disney movie = love.

[@andrewhalmo656]

Using your Swashbuckler trick, I think that you should take the Brace Maneuver so you can hit them back into Cloud of Daggers!!

[@jchagasla]

I once played a swords bard that used the mobile flourish to keep targets on her cloud of daggers. To be honest, in over 10 combat sessions I think I only managed to pull that off twice, but it was amazing when it happened :D

[@TheRobversion1]

I have a similar ranged version of this build and i do it every fight. At least once if not more. I think the issue here is your action economy. Did you consider getting action surge or quicken spell?

[@wizzz1967cm]

Another amazing video loving it

[@Brandonrod]

Hi everyone! I am about to start a campaign that is levels 1-15. I want to run this build, but I want to change it a little bit. I feel like I should be an Asimar instead of Custom Lineage for this build to be able to fight creatures that fly. Since this is going to level 15, there is a good chance at the end that there will be flying creatures. However, this then delays me being able to do the Cloud of Dagger combo by a couple of levels. So Idea 1 is Pally 1, Sorc 1(for cantrips), and then going 3 levels into swords bard. This would give me the ability to push using Sword Bard instead of Crusher so I do not have to worry about taking Rune Knight and I can just push whoever. Then I go back to Sorc 2 more levels to unlock the combo and then I go back to Pally. So I would be level 7 before I could do the combo and then I would just take War Caster and 2 ASI to get CHR to 20. But another variation I was thinking of was just doing pally 1 and then going 4 straight levels of Sorc and picking up Crusher. This way allows me to do the combo at level 5 and I would have crusher for the whole campaign and only need to use the sword barb ability when we fight Huge enemies(I do not want to take fighter levels bc I feel like it's a waste when I could take other levels and get more spell slots). What do you all think I should do? I could just go Variant human/Custom and take Crusher at level 1, but then I wouldn't get a concentration-free fly ability for the end game because my biggest fear would be that we are fighting a flying enemy(maybe a dragon or something) and then I can't really do anything to it since it's in the air. My end-game levels for this build are going to be Pally 6(Veng or Conquest), Sorc 5(Divine Soul), and Bard 4(Swords), so I know I could pick up the fly spell but then I wouldn't be able to do the cloud of daggers combo against a flying creature. Please let me know what you all think I should do. (Oh yeah need to mention that hex blade multi-class with pally is sadly banned in this campaign, so Id either be taking pally levels or hexblade but the warlock mutli class it's self isn't banned so maybe Geni could help out with that but I highly doubt that.)

[@wfournier]

I think it would be super cool to see a Strength Unarmed/Grappling build that isn't a Monk. Maybe something like a Duergar (for Enlarge) Rune Knight Fighter/Battlerager Barbarian with the new Unarmed Fighting Style from Tasha's. I just love the idea of a tiny Dwarf who is convinced that he's the descendant of a long line of Giants and gets mad whenever someone makes fun of his height so he suddenly hulks out and becomes huge. Maybe use the Tavern Brawler feat for bonus action grapples or, if that's more your style, use the bodies of your enemies as improvised weapons.

[@TheRobversion1]

barb and rune knight are redundant. they offer you the same benefits for grappling. rune knight is indeed a baseline for grappling and tbh monks don;t do well as grapplers. it;s just that the unarmed fighting style works best with grapplers as it keeps your hands free for grappling. you have the right idea with combining enlarge and giant's might. i did something similar to this as well in the past. i did a rune knight 4, clockwork soul 6 playing a small custom lineage race. concept was based around antman. artificer was an option over sorc but it didn't have the defensive tools i wanted so i went with clockwork soul. function as a sustained dmg striker/tank hybrid. i can share the details if interested.

[@zazikel1885]

I am building my sorcadin right now for Sacred Weapon + Trance of Order + Aura of Protection combo (for great min. results of attack rolls and saving throws). I am wondering if Polearm Master is good for bonus action attacks. I am afraid that I will quickly run out of sorcery point for quickening BB/GFB. What do you think in terms of sustained damage? (I am not concerned about ASI because of Belt of Giant Strength.)

[@tarheel12325]

Necor'ing this a little, but my party needs a healer (group consists of a fighter, ranger, wizard, and warlock atm). I dont like playing straight up heal/buff bots, so would a divine soul sorcadin fill the gap? Little bit of healing/buffing with the potential to nova quicken hold person into a smite occassionaly? Some type of bard (thinking 2 warlock / x lore bard) could also work as well?

[@otakurogue4556]

Words of terror is perfect for a villains monologue

[@arurukrishnavamshi8075]

Your builds are fun and interesting and all but I don't think the editing in the videos get enough praise. The editing in this video was great!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thank you! I feel like I'm getting better but it's also taking longer and longer each week, so I'm glad someone appreciates it :P

[@the_ceeman]

A team up build I've been obsessed with lately is a fathonless warlock x/ancestral guardian barbarian 3 and a psi knight/abjuration wizard. The basic idea is that the warlock forces the target to attack them and trigger armor of agathys, and through the combination of guardian coil and rage from the warbarb, and interception/barrier from the psi wizard to reduce the damage taken by as much as possible

[@DnDDeepDive]

gonna write this down :).

[@the_ceeman]

Or alternatively you can go clockwork soul sorcerer instead of abjuration wizard for the war of order, which would work even better since it doesn't use a reaction and can be stacked with guardian coil

[@the_ceeman]

@@DnDDeepDive glad you like it :) Another cool thing is that tentacle of the deep can trigger ancestral protectors

[@charlietonner5648]

My story arc for this character A paladin who was sworn to protect those who can’t help themselves realises that they have some ancient divine power within themselves. After testing out their power they go to the mountains learning of giants and there way if the blade (cloud of daggers). After finally meeting the giants they ask if they can learn how to fight like them. They then learn of a plot to destroy the people they hold dear, the giants. So they disguise themselves as a politician and lie there way out of many situations due to the help of their cloud rune to find the noble who set this in motion. When they finally complete their mission to save the giants, the giants don’t allow them back into their village because the noble wouldn’t have known about the village without out hero.After all this they are just a shell habited by their oath they used to have fun but now all they have is hatred for everyone

[@snazzyfeathers]

You can smite with a booming blade attack? Booming blade was a mistake.

[@crownlexicon5225]

Yep! Sneak attack too. But BB (and Green Flame Blade) aren't accessible by Paladins. You need to multiclass or take a feat, both of which are optional rules

[@arurukrishnavamshi8075]

@@crownlexicon5225 you can start as a high elf or half elf to get a wizard cantrip.

[@crownlexicon5225]

@@arurukrishnavamshi8075 fair. I didn't think about that

[@chopcooey]

Why is it a mistake? BB does roughly the same amount of damage as extra attack at level 5, and at level 11 with improved smite, with less chances to fish for crit. the full BB does slightly more, but with the secondary damage which is uncertain. Going for the feat, MC or elf is a sacrifice for this. In general with a 2H build, there is anti-synergy between GWM and BB, although this build makes it work by building around a specific combo. With 1H build, the best option is PM+qstaff, and then BB loses to extra attack + bonus attack, unless you have another consistent bonus action to do instead. warcaster + PM (+ crusher) is great for BB reactions but costs an extra feat that is not always what you want on paladin. In short, smite works on the BB attack, but there is no particular synergy between the two. BB can be the right choice on some builds, and not on some others, but i don't think it is by any means a mistake. Especially that any class with no extra attack that wants to go martial absolutely needs it.

[@Kermit_the_frog]

Hi Colby! Thanks for some amazing content! I have been wanting to do an artificer that multiclasses as a gunslinger for ages, but can't seem to make the concept work. The only thing I have to start of with, is the 'Repeating Shot' infusion, which requires a simple or martial weapon with the ammunition property (requires attunement). Firearms are as far as I am aware martial ranged weapons. This magic weapon grants a + 1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it's used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it. I think ignoring the loading property is pretty cool! I hope you are willing to make a build on this down the line! :)

[@TheRobversion1]

a firearm user works like any other ranged martial. just a question of 2 things: 1. does your dm allow firearms and it's ammunition in the campaign? 2. will your dm implement the misfire property of firearms? if the answer to #2 is yes, the only adjusment to a typical ranged martial build (fighter + gloomstalker is the best chassis then sprinkle in artificer for the infusion), you'd have to make sure you have some way to avoid misfire with rerolls such as having advantage or the lucky feat.

[@DnDDeepDive]

On the list!

[@loboradix7921]

i love your stuff - thank you!

[@aadynnsick126]

Decendant from a giant war god. They bellow war chants while weilding destructive war magics, All the inspiring their allies to be more efficient warriors.

[@ikaros4464]

Your character is a Half-Celestial Goliath Dawnsinger (actual lore, warrior-bards that are a great basis for bard/barbarian and bard/fighter multiclassing). This justifies everything but the paladin levels, but since you haven't taken an Oath its really more of your Fighter and Sorcerer levels blending together a little bit.

[@perlygatekeeper]

coolest build to date!

[@alanofyale9624]

"so if your out of sorcery points, out of spell slots, but ya still wanna go golfing..." lol sometimes you've had stressful day adventuring and ya just need to take a break and go golfing.

[@brettbussart2844]

Colby, I got you brother. Backstory: Kirgan, is the Nephilim descendent of both Kiga, the predator; a savage jaguar god of Zakhara; and an ancient line of Cloud Giants that used to live at the edge of her jungle on the eastern shores of Zakhara. A far traveler, Kirgan is both half giant, half celestial. His tribe, the Fúria noturna or 'Night Rage' tribe, is one of the few left in Zakhara that worships the old gods, or Savage Gods, as the "enlightened" Zakharans call them. Blessed with night vision, Kirgan was set apart and recognized as a descendant of mighty Kiga, and as such learned to use his strength, darkness, and cunning to become the greatest hunter among his tribe. During a pre-hunt ritual, the Shadow Cat, his tribe's elderly shamaness, had a vision that Kirgan was meant for much more than becoming the next master of the hunt. She foresaw that his destiny was to become a mighty magical warrior who would return to Zakhara and fight against the Enlightened ones, the Genie worshippers, and all those who blasphemed against the Savage Gods. Kirgan would use the rage and strength of Kiga and the destructive rune magic of the giants of old to destroy and punish those who turned their backs on the true gods so long ago. Thus, Kirgan left his tribe armed with his faith in Kiga who rules over the domains of animals, darkness, destruction, strength, and war; and to discover his magical heritage from the skyejotunen. His tribe gifted him with a fierce jaguar shaped mask made from ipe and great double headed maul carved to look like a roaring jaguar. Under the light of a hunter's moon, Kirgan left his people to test this fate and fulfill his destiny.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Kirgan the Conqueror!

[@TheRoguethatGoesStab]

As a person who has made a build akin to the Sorcerer with the Magic Touch (as in putting a specific role can result in a very much different playstyle), I would love to see Colby's thoughts, interpretation, and optimization of my build. The premise: a wisdom-based, swarmkeeper ranger whose existence was the manipulation of movement I picked Custom Lineage for the Telekinetic feat per Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, boosting my Wisdom for a total of 18 at level 1. I put three levels into ranger (the campaign started at level 3) and picked the Swarmkeeper subclass as well as the Druidic Fighter fighting style and picked Magic Stone and Shillelagh. Important Spells at this level: Ensnaring Strike Execution: be as annoying as possible by throwing rocks at people (or hitting them in a club) and making them make two Strength Saves, one against being pushed around by 15 feet preferably into pits and being restrained in the Ensnaring Strike. Using any free bonus action I get to pull or push allies away from enemies or mildly inconvenience enemies with a small shove. This build is very non-hunter's mark concentration focused so damage output is low to say the least, the Web spell was also a possible holder of concentration (but it is funny to have someone escape from a web and throw them back into it with a rock to the forehead). Also bonus action heavy if quickly going from ranged attacks with the Magic Stones to up close and personal with Shillelagh. While not the most powerful build I wanted to experiment with less MAD ranger who specialized in a non-traditional role. I played the character to level 6 as a pure ranger I want to know the upper limits of the concept if it even has one. Simply food for thought, would love to know everyone's thoughts.

[@TheRoguethatGoesStab]

Also having a 8 strength was fun as I could just do a unarmed strike against myself to move 15 feet for free, not really useful in many situations but the ability to simply shift myself when I normally wouldn't have movement came up a few times, especially relating to falling off cliffs.

[@TheRobversion1]

a bit confusing here. you specify you only want colby to reply at the start then want to know everyone's thoughts? which is the true desire?

[@TheRoguethatGoesStab]

@@TheRobversion1 Sorry if it was a little confusing, I would enjoy to hear anyone's thoughts but when I said "I would like to see Colby's thoughts" is was more of me falling into the idea of "video person=expert" fallacy and I do apologies for that as I know that isn't always the case.

[@TheRobversion1]

@@TheRoguethatGoesStab its a good concept as the wis ranger is more viable since tashas. But forced movement is like mobility. Its only good when you have something dangerous to push/pull them into. If i were to spin this i'd simply do a variation of the popular warlock cheese grater builds with this. Something like: fighter 2, swarm 5, divine sorc 3. I'd pass on magic stone eventually and just use thorn whip. Doing something like: Round 1: bonus action: quicken spike growth action: thorn whip pull + gathered swarm push Action surge: thorn whip pull Round 2: bonus action: telekinetic push Action: thorn whip pull

[@DnDDeepDive]

On the list!

[@gregkaye5583]

love the hammer off the stone t-shirt" :D

[@DnDDeepDive]

My favorite Marvel character and my favorite Disney movie in one glorious image? Yes please :)

[@arthuragostinho9132]

15:45 Thanks, new vocabulary acquired! 🤓

[@DnDDeepDive]

ha!

[@liammeisgood8665]

I think if I were to play this character (especially if I was playing at lower levels) I would skip sorcerer levels and take bard levels early. This would leave me without booming blade so I would probably take magic initiative wizard (grabbing find familiar). This would be very potent but would leave me without quickened spell which is the major downside.

[@DesignatedHealer]

I used to watch these within the first hour and be one of twelve comments. Times sure change fast!

[@MrJoeBananas]

Hey Colby :] Just curious, if you WERE to run some type of variant of this (or the previous sorcadin you did) with a Warlock investment, what would it look like? What would you end up switching out?

[@DnDDeepDive]

Hm... shooting from the hip, I feel like I'd probably Hexblade 1, then proceed as outlined until Fighter 3. At that point, I probably go back to Hexblade to pick up invocations, pact, better spell slots, etc. Once I got to Hexblade 5 I'd have to decide between sticking with that and going back to sorc but I think I probably say Warlock.

[@Teeaboo]

Can't you do this sans-resources (unless you quicken) with Create Bonfire? Obviously there's a save but it's still a way to perform your combo with less resources at all levels!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Couple problems: the bonfire does damage when a creature first enters the space (good) and if it *ends* its turn there (not as good). Meaning that, most of the time, I think, we're probably not double dipping each round. Also, yes, as you say, a saving throw, and less damage. Still, sure, if you're short on resources or out, for that matter, it's a good option :).

[@ghostninja0710]

It would be interesting to see your take on a gunslinger build and love the video's keep up the great work

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! Got it on the to do list :)

[@codybeck371]

i have a suggestion for a build! a 11 levels of psi knight fighter, 3 lvl battlesmith artificer, and 1 level forge cleric dip (the remaining levels can into anything, im sure youll find something awesome to do with them). the premis is gwm as often as possible. get your int as high as possible as quick as possible, use bless to mitigate the gwm negative. forge cleric frees up an extra infusion. the 11 levels of fighter give you 3 attacks per turn, take Sentinel so enemies attacking you get disadvantage from your steel defender, and if they attack the defender you get to wack em with another gwm attack

[@TheRobversion1]

sounds good though i feel forge cleric isn't critical here. best replaced with something else that perhaps helps with the accuracy part so you can generate advantage at least on round 1 (round 2 shouldn't be much of an issue as artificers can cover that with their familiar and bless/silent image/fog cloud combo).

[@codybeck371]

yea forge cleric isnt nessasary. just makes early levels stronger and gives heavy armor proficiency. makes us less m.a.d. because we can dump dex. we could get the same by just starting fighter though

[@codybeck371]

i also really like forge cleric lmao 🤣

[@TheRobversion1]

@@codybeck371 yeah i'd rather start fighter and tbh dex is the 1 stat imo that players should avoid dumping if possible as it's the "god" stat of 5e. i also generally stay away from heavy armor (unless i had to dump dex for a build) as that removes stealth from 1 of your options. if i were to spec this ability wise: str 8 dex 14 con 12 int 15 wis 14/8 cha 8/14 wis and cha are switchable depending on what i want that 3rd class to be. if i'm sticking with 2 classes then i'd priortize keeping wis higher as it's the more useful save. speaking of the 3rd class, personally, i'd go gloomstalker. that should give an advantage generator and more attacks/dmg along with expertise + initiative boost. if i wanted to lean more towards spellcasting, then i'd consider wizard.

[@codybeck371]

out of curiosity when would you start multiclassing?

[@mrjek01]

Just spit balling here but...maybe the runes you learned from the giants was a rare form of musical notes. Thats why you were learning them since you are focusing around the concept of thunder which giants are famous for. So between the boom of your thunder and clinking sounds of all the spinning blades bard of thunder just was the culmination of all that training.

[@DnDDeepDive]

love this

[@jamesmullen3068]

Rewatching this as a result of Colby's comments on the Tales of Aneria discord this morning. Is everyone following tales of Aneria?

[@straycollective873]

does he or other experts ever explain a great round combo with Sorcadins? like how to use Smites with Blade Cantrips ?

[@jeffreyblackwell1444]

Yea by means of Rules as intended, you get one damage or the other per Crawford, as in the Spirit Guardians spell... but by having the cloud of daggers spell, you are effectively ending the combat if your dm is wise. Monster should back away and range up against you... good build for sure

[@TheRobversion1]

i dont' get how this is RAI. i've seen tweets that point to otherwise in the past with similar entry spells like wall of fire. do you have a link?

[@logancuster8035]

Surprised you didn’t go with the Riposte battle maneuver to potentially push an enemy back into the Cloud of daggers on their turn.

[@TheRobversion1]

this is a great idea. it lowers the burst on that 1st turn but increases the total round 1 dmg. i like it.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Excellent

[@commandante6709]

I have an idea for a background! There was a book I read a long time ago that had a protagonist with Necromancer powers inherited through her family and through rites/rituals. But she wasn't a normal raise skeletons necromancer, she used runic, magically infused bells to do various magical things. Effectively, in this fiction "necromancer" was synonymous with wizard or sorcerer and she kicked ass with a cursed magically infused sword and wore belts covered in doo-dads, bells and pouches containing materials that were used to perform magic of all sorts. Maybe something like this?

[@DnDDeepDive]

love it!

[@Flaraen]

The books are Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen etc, great books, very cool magic system :)