DDR

[@mynt4033]

the fizzle exception for Mutate is probably the weirdest part about mutate. We are so used to seeing single targetted things fizzle with no target

[@UberTahm]

I think Bestow works the same way as mutate in this regard.

[@mn6334]

I'm generally under the impression that Humans can't mutate mostly for lore reasons. Ikoria was all about a conflict between the humans of the plane and the wild monsters that mutate constantly.

[@volcelectomy]

One more thing about mutate that I actually learned from playing it on mtg arena and had to ask my judge friend about because of how strange it seemed: copying a mutate spell causes the entire mutate pile to become a token if the copied spell is put on top. This is something that actually happens very often now with how prominent Ivy has been recently.

[@Xplayer007]

As someone who loves playing Illuna Apex of Wishes as a commander and all the crazy mutate shenanigans thank you very much for this episode!

[@toedrag-release]

I also play a mutate Illuna deck. It's a fun deck to play, i love the weird interactions like mutating something dumb on the top of something like Etali then making a bunch of tokens and having them stick because it's no longer legendary then getting a crazy amount of triggers.

[@jfb-]

Human isn't the only creature type with rules baggage; there's also the party mechanic

[@suzikumieda2452]

I let my Level 1 judgeship lapse a few years ago, and I was sad for a long while. Ikoria and the mutate mechanic finally made me feel okay about not being a judge anymore. Much respect to you for understanding so well and being able to explain it all so clearly!

[@SteelCityBrad]

I'm working on a presentation for a judge conference on copy effects and there are several very good nuggets of information for that presentation here. Thanks, Dave!

[@mynt4033]

Ooo what conference?

[@SteelCityBrad]

@@mynt4033 It's for an in-person conference in the Pittsburgh area.

[@mynt4033]

@@SteelCityBrad Q3 Pittsburgh Area Mini Conference? This actually sounds kinda cool. It didnt really occur to me that judges have public meetups like this but I guess it's got to happen somehow. Really wish I could attend, the topics seem like they'd be really valuable to even most magic players.

[@SteelCityBrad]

@@mynt4033 That's the one!

[@mynt4033]

@@SteelCityBrad You happen to know a good discord channel for rules questions if I ever have them? Is there a good networking discord for people who aspire to know more about the rules

[@altabiscuit]

When Ikoria was new I had a game where one of my friends cast Word of Seizing on a creature that was being targeted by a Mutate spell on the stack. We weren't quite sure how to resolve it at the time because Mutate was very new. We later found out since the Mutate spell's owner still owns the creature, the Mutate still resolved, but the player who cast Word of Seizing got the benefit of the "when this creature mutates" triggered ability since they now controlled the creature. Cool interaction in the end.

[@ultron8717]

I was truly delighted by the image pop up at 8:39

[@bedwablackburn]

Been waiting for this. Mutate is actually one of my favorite mechanics.

[@bedwablackburn]

I enjoyed playing mutate on the god eternals and murderous rider when either of them were still in standard. Fun times

[@toedrag-release]

I really hope they bring it back in the future wile complicated it's actually a fantastic mechanic. Also enrage inwas disappointed the new Ixilan set didn't have any enrage Dino's.

[@420Pikachu]

Love this vid man. Mutate was a fun mechanic to mess with but we gotta return to Ikoria for more mutate shenanigans. ...Ability counters were also pretty fun from that set.

[@yodabuddy2112]

Another interaction with Chef's kiss is if you cast a mutate spell targeting a nonhuman creature you own and holding priority cast chef's kiss, it copies but can't redirect. However, since in this case both mutate spells still would have legal targets that creature would mutate twice. This is an infinite combo with vadrok, but keep in mind if an opponent controls a creature you own this would immediately stop the combo, since it would have a valid target to redirect.

[@JiorujiDerako]

Oh that's super interesting, conveniently just got a Chef's Kiss and I'm building a Vadrok deck :D I suppose the key to this functioning is the fact that it first copies the spell, _then_ attempts to reselect targets; up until it tries to reselect the targets for both the spell and the copy, they're both targeting your original declared target. Now, with no legal targets to switch to, that part of the Chef's Kiss effect 'fizzles', so you continue with the casting process of the two mutate spells as normal, leaving both on the targets they originally had.

[@Kharsonist]

In that final interaction, you say that the original dreamtail hedron would mutate onto Amy's creature because the target can't change. But wouldn't Amy's creatures be illegal targets and dreamtail hedron simply enter on Nick's board. The rules say gaining control of a spell changes any references of "you" to the player who gains control. Nick has no legal targets here unless Amy controls a creature that Nick owns.

[@gewinner5379]

One of my friends I play MTG with has a Judge tower, so it is a deck of cards, with special/complicated interactions, etc. Everyone draws 3 cards from that deck and they play a game of Magic, except whenever someone misses a trigger, somehow violates the rules, etc. that person looses on the spot. There are some Mutate cards in there and we mostly have been succeful at avoiding to cast them mutated. He also got Mimic vat in there. I hope to see that interaction with Mutated creatures there, once. I will probably have forgotten how it works, by then xd.

[@adoenlunnae872]

The reason why you can't mutate a Human is thematic. Mutate is one of the main mechanics on Ikoria, representing the amazing adaptability of the animals/monsters of the plane. And also, the set has a whole Human/non-Human matters archetype (including cards that want you to control one of each) , to represent the monsters, the humans who hunt them and the bonders that befriend them.

[@gauwal]

if I understand correctly, if you mutate on top of a vehicule you now have a creature with a crew ability, so it can crew itself ?

[@jinxed7915]

This was a recent change to the rules, but vehicles can no longer crew themselves

[@EgorTimatkov]

@@jinxed7915 Ah but you see, if you mutate on top of a vehicle, it's no longer a vehicle anymore! It's a CREATURE with the crew ability... And I am pretty curious to know if that actually works- if it can crew itself

[@sailorforce]

Correct, it can crew itself because it’s no longer a vehicle.

[@Flyboy245]

Mutate leads to so many complicated interactions. One thing I was surprised you didn’t bring up was the name concept, cause it can get confusing, especially to those who don’t know. A friend of mine has a tatsunari deck, and I am looking at making an Ivy deck, built around the principle that if you mutate on top (in his case, the kaimi), it no longer has the name kaimi and you can therefore create another one

[@DUxMORTEM]

The best part is when you mutate a bunch of creatures onto your commander and your opponents leadership vacuums it.

[@dyne313]

The most awesome thing I saw somebody do with mutate was mutating on Scute Swarm. My favorite thing I did was using Sarkhan the Masterless to make a planeswalker a creature, then mutating on that planeswalker.

[@mattsauers]

Literally made me look up 903.9 to read that there's new SBAs where there were replacements IIRC for what is now 903.9a. I guess this is so "dies" and "exiled" triggers aside from general LtB triggers work "as intended." Thanks, learned a rule I didn't come to learn, because that's what happens to me every time.

[@ZSAITOSEI]

I had to spend an inhumane amount of time messaging a judge friend to figure out how the UG Tawnos would work with mutate, led to the most bonkers glass cannon deck ever. Effectively, you get the copy mutate first, then the original, leading to three mutate ability triggers instead of just one.

[@99wattr89]

Are you sure Mimic Vat won't create tokens of each creature from the mutate stack? The ruling for hideaway is, as I understand it, that if you doubled up the hideaway trigger to exile two cards, then you can play both at once. This seems like a similar scenario.

[@SamuraiSam]

This was super helpful, thank you!

[@ThePauliwrath]

I know banding is a meme but in practice it's not that complicated. Mutate is my nightmare. Thank you for helping me face my demons. Or my bird-shark-dinosaur-demons

[@colaocha1115]

I'd like some clarification on who controls the mutated permanent in the even that you cast a mutate creature your opponent owns like in the Chef's Kiss example, and does it depend on the order of the stack.

[@sailorforce]

Your opponent will still control the original, and you will control the copy made by Chef’s Kiss.

[@Quroe_]

1:50 You *can* mutate a creature that an opponent stole from you with, say, a Threaten / Act of Treason effect. As long as you own the target, you're golden.

[@sailorforce]

You don’t even need to control a creature to mutate on to it. You just have to own it 😋

[@TobyBW]

Minor slip up at 1:53, should be “own” and not “control” but I assume that is touched on more in the rest of the video.

[@merrowmania1366]

1:36 - Spirit also has rules baggage thanks to Soulshift.

[@derekseaton4412]

Here I thought you would add in what happens if you have to transform or morph a mutate stack

[@allopeth]

4* question... brace for impact!

[@beaudryc123]

What happens to the power-toughness after a mutation? Do we add the stats of all the cards in the pile, or do we keep using only the top-most stats?

[@fabioandrade8476]

The merged permanent has the p/t of the card on top with all the abilities of the cards on the bottom. So if you mutate a Dreamtail Heron on top of a Colossal Dreadmaw it would be a 3/4 with flying and trample.

[@RBGolbat]

Just in time for me to build a Child of Alara mutate deck!

[@EgorTimatkov]

11:49 "Like always, these tokens will cease to exist the next time state based actions are checked" Referring to moving tokens into your library from play. This confuses me. I always thought that tokens disappear instantly, not as state based actions. Because otherwise you could Ephemerate a token and it would come back because state based actions aren't checked while you flicker something? I'm not sure what part of this I'm getting wrong. If you Ephemerate a token, are state based actions checked mid spell resolution?

[@sammiddleton7663]

There's another rule that says that a token that moves to another zone can't leave that zone, so Ephemerate tries to put it back on the battlefield and fails then the token ceases to exist as an SBA

[@mrsnufflegums]

I thought if you took control of a mutate spell with something like chef's kiss, you cant change the target of the original spell unless you own a creature you dont control. Wouldnt amy's dreamtail heron just enter the battlefield under nick's control if there are no targets that can satisfy chefs kiss since the rules text specifically says "you own" and not "owned by the owner of this spell" Or something along those lines? That would mean taking control of the spell would change the list of legal targets from non-human creatues amy owns to non-human creatures owned by nick but not controlled by nick (chosen at random), and if nick controls all the creatures he owns now there arent any targets and because of that, the heron would just enter as a creature. Or am i just overthinking this?

[@sailorforce]

The new target of Amy’s Dreamtail Heron still has to be a creature that Amy owns. If she doesn’t own any other creatures besides the one she originally targeted, it won’t be redirected, as there are no other legal targets to select from.

[@martinphillips2461]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARgh, mutate.

[@SamGrimes-n6m]

If you fail to mutate and the creature enters play normally because of failing can you mutate it with another creature the same turn?

[@keithstolz1106]

If creature X has mutate, and you cast creature Y with mutate, both of their mutate abilities trigger. An example is Migratory Greathorn and Gemrazer. If either mutates onto the other, you get to search for a basic land from MG and destroy an artifact or enchantment from Gemrazer. When you decide to mutate on top or bottom, the stats will change to whichever creature is on top. The creature type also changes. If you mutate Illuna, Apex of Wishes, which is a Beast Elemental Dinosaur onto Necropanther, which is a Cat Nightmare, their creature type becomes a Beast Elemental Dinosaur Cat Nightmare. Keep this in mind for tribal pay offs. I’m not sure about Legendary though. If Illuna is on the battlefield, can you mutate another Illuna onto it? Or if Illuna is on the battlefield, and you mutate another Illuna onto a different creature on the bottom, does the Legendary rule apply? If so, does the mutate ability resolve? Ugh, magic is hard.

[@ScorpioneOrzion]

For creature types/legend rule they are only determined by the top permanent. So in the first situation it either becomes a Beast Elemental Dinosaur or a Cat Nightmare For the second situation its only legendary if the topmost permanent is a legendary.

[@sailorforce]

Yes, you can mutate one Iluna on to another with no issue. There’s only ever one Iluna in play, so the legend rule doesn’t pertain at all. The mutate pile will be legendary if the top card of the pile is. Otherwise, it won’t be. I play a Tatsunari, Toad Rider deck in EDH that abused mutate to make many Keimis 😋

[@kurtreznor]

Maybe I missed it, but who controls the creature if a player plays a mutate onto a creature controlled by someone else?

[@miserepoignee9594]

It counts as the same creature it was on the battlefield, so the controller doesn't change. The mutate spell's controller chooses whether to put it on top or on bottom, though.

[@seandun7083]

Don't spirits have associated rules baggage too thanks to soulshift?

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

6:55 Wait, if it’s not considered to be a transforming double faced permanent, how can it transform? Is having a transforming double faced card somewhere in the stack, even if it’s not the top card/token, enough to qualify the permanent as being represented by a transforming double faced card?

[@sailorforce]

Yes, the mutate pile has all the abilities of the creatures in the pile, including whatever the transform ability is…

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

@@sailorforce Being a transforming double faced permanent isn’t an ability, it’s a characteristic. I would’ve thought that, since characteristics are derived from the top card on the stack, it would only be able to transform if that card was a transforming double faced permanent, but apparently being “represented” by a transforming double faced card means something slightly different from being a transforming double faced card.

[@soarel325]

God, Ikoria was a mistake. My thoughts exactly on wishing I’d never have to think about this mechanic ever again

[@toedrag-release]

So wait if i mutate on something like Illharg and it dies both cards go third from the top in any order?

[@rajamicitrenti1374]

I'm guessing then that there's no special rules for bouncing a mutate creature and it should put the entire mutate creature back to it's owner's hand? Damn, then the thing that got me to quit playing MTG Arena was a bug.

[@sailorforce]

Yes, if you kill or bounce a mutate pile, the whole stack goes to the graveyard or hand. It’s ONE creature.

[@RainerLP]

What happens if I play a blink effect to exile it and bring it back? I asume the whole mutate "stack/pile" is treated as one card/permanent?

[@Alrin-]

It will leave as one permanent, and re-enter as multiple separate permanents. This would mean you would only get one leaves the battlefield trigger but you would get multiple enter the battlefield triggers.

[@elementalblu2683]

I've a question: when I reanimate Etali, what side I've to choose? No matter what side or i must choose the side with mana cost?

[@sailorforce]

Transforming cards are always their front face in every zone other than the battlefield. You will always get the front face if you put it in to play by some method other than casting it, unless the effect specifically says to put it in to play transformed (not that there are any cards with that text, but some day…)

[@elementalblu2683]

@@sailorforce even if the creature comes back from the exile ?

[@toastymansabe]

if I turn inkmoth nexus into a 1/1 with infect then mutate it putting the new creature on top, let's say brokkos, what would happen at the end of turn? Would still be a 6/6 with trample, infect and flying? Would still be a creature but without flying and infect? If that the case if I pay one to would it turn into a 1/1 with flying and infect?

[@Lovuschka]

This stuff is so compicated, it almost is like German laws.

[@SpitefulAZ]

You missed the best (or funniest) mutate interaction: what happens if you mutate on top of a Theros god with enough devotion for it to be a creature, and then your devotion drops below the requirement to be a creature. What are you left with?

[@sailorforce]

If your devotion drops below the requisite number to make the mutate pile a creature, then it will be a permanent on the battlefield with no permanent types, since it’s no longer an enchantment and the God text makes it also no longer a creature. It will still have all the abilities of the pile.

[@mfmageiwatch]

Are you sure about the mimic vat only giving you 1 of the exiled cards when activated? I remember other examples of ETB imprint cards working differently with panharmonicon or Yarok allowing them to imprint 2 cards. Maybe thr rule has changed since I last read that though.

[@jinxed7915]

I'm not sure why Panharmonicon or Yarok would interact with Mimic Vat considering they care about stuff entering the battlefield...

[@Xplayer007]

Mimic Vat's activated ability only gives you "a card" regardless of how many cards it exiles, but the point is in the case of merged permanents you can choose any card that was part of the merged permanent exiled with Mimic Vat.

[@mfmageiwatch]

@@jinxed7915 you should probably reread my comment more carefully.

[@jinxed7915]

@@mfmageiwatch maybe you should reread Mimic Vat more carefully.

[@jfb-]

because mimic vat says to choose A card, which only gets one. Some of the others say THE card which can get them all.

[@Greg501-]

Humans can't mutate because on Ikoria they refuse the monsters. Not that that makes it less arbitrary

[@OriginalMaRulFullStream]

I run a fun oops all creature mutate deck and I try to used almost everything in this video. And I love joking about how Magic currently has 3 faced cards and want them to make a 5 faced card.

[@Bob-fe8qn]

I am still confused about why you can’t mutate onto the backside of a werewolf. The way you described it makes it sound like it would work but on arena at least it doesn’t

[@miserepoignee9594]

Probably because Arena mistakenly believes the werewolf is a Human because its front side has that characteristic. Do you know if it works on one of the DFC's where neither the front nor back face is a Human?

[@sailorforce]

That is most likely an Arena bug.

[@thomaslunn6601]

If you mutate onto a token created by Faerie Artisans, what happens when a creature next enters the battlefield? Does it matter whether you mutate on the top or the bottom?

[@sailorforce]

If you mutate on to a token and you put the real card on top, it won’t be a token anymore, so Faerie Artisans won’t even attempt to exile it the next time it triggers.

[@einstein4555]

What happens if you mutate onto inkmoth nexus?

[@davidhower7095]

If you mutate a creature on top of Inkmoth Nexus, the resulting permanent will still be a 1/1 Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying, infect, and whatever other abilities the mutated creature granted it until end of turn. After the end of turn, It’ll stop being a 1/1 Blinkmoth artifact creature and return to being the top creature. Notably, it no longer has infect. If you activate the ability again, it’ll turn into the Blinkmoth again, but it will still be 1/1. If you mutate below the Blinkmoth Nexus, the same thing happens, except at end of turn it returns to being a Land instead. It still has all the abilities of the creatures in the mutate stack, but you’ll need to animate the land again to take advantage of them. It’s still a 1/1.

[@IssaUserName]

The flavor fail of not mutating onto humans is so weird imo. I can mutate onto artifacts, but not humans? I can mutate onto things that mutate out of a human (IE a werewolf and some eldrazi) but not a human? I CANT MUTATE ONTO A MUTANT HUMAN???

[@DerekScottBland]

4 minutes in, my brain hurts. People say Banding is difficult to understand. I understand it perfectly. Mutate is easily the worst thing ever.

[@DarkProvidence420]

How does chefs kiss interact with mutate? Mutate doesn't specify a target.

[@SpitefulAZ]

Mutate?! Insert What year is it meme.

[@davidhower7095]

Are there any rules that clarify what happens if a card has conflicting characteristic-defining abilities due to mutate? (Like Lhurgoyf mutated onto Lord of Extinction.) I’m fairly sure this can’t actually happen yet since there’s no card that gives other cards mutate… but it’ll exist eventually.

[@z_o_i_n_k_s]

Edit: After further consideration... I do not think a rule exists for this. Seeing as the creatures become one, I do not think timestamps apply in this case. I doubt that a card will be created for exactly this to come up, but here is what I imagine: Both CDAs will be considered in layer 7a when deciding the card's characteristics. If no dependency exists, the application will be based on timestamps, so if a Lhurgoyf mutates onto Lord of Extinction, the Lhurgoyf's effect should overrule it because it has the latest timestamp... probably.

[@sailorforce]

No it won’t. The rules of Magic are designed and managed specifically to stop this kind of conflict from happening.

[@ich3730]

@@sailorforce I mean, kinda dumb of you to say it like that :D People like you said the same about any new thing. "Oh they would never do that, oh they cant, oh it would break the rules" .

[@voltcorp]

your breathing seems off in this one, I hope everything's ok!

[@JudgingFtW]

I'm happy to report that I'm feeling fine. Maybe I'm mutating into a shark bird advisor...

[@Warlord1o4]

Wow, so they didn't like rules baggage back form kami block... outlaws are blah, blah, blah and Rouges. Don't forget Rouge is also a part of party along with blah blah blah.

[@MyNameIsTim1337]

As a former judge, mutate is a mistake.

[@sailorforce]

As a former judge, I disagree 😋

[@zinnbelt1418]

So basically dont play Mutate? Got it. Lol

[@RadicalPrion]

IMO, Mutate is the MtG mechanical version of KFC - Mutate can be simultaneously hilarious and headache-inducing, just like KFC can be simultaneously delicious and disgusting. For this reason, I built a Durnan of the Yawning Portal (with Shameless Charlatan) Commander deck, where I'm trying to clone mutants and mutate clones. The deck's not great, but if it's allowed to do its thing, then trying to figure out the rules interactions and keeping everything on my battlefield straight ends up being a delightful trip to a headache. And Ivy makes things exponentially worse . . .

[@mistysowards7365]

Just not worth the trouble or headaches... that was a great Try though. Lol

[@iidoyila]

in my game, mutate works properly, since humans are animals and mutatability is an animal attribute .

[@ich3730]

Who cares? Humans cant mutate because it was said so in the ikoria lore. The writers can make up anything they want, including who and what gets to mutate. You are not "making it work properly" xD

[@iidoyila]

@@ich3730 you're so cool

[@dwpetrak]

Oh mutate. Why WotC? Why?

[@Def-cd6bm]

Never liked this mutate thing. Unnecessary complicated.