Dead By Daylight Is Unarguably Survivor Sided

Probably gonna get some flak but whatever it proves my point about this game being in a massive echo chamber, comments are there if you disagree though. Don't play an insane amount but I do keep up with balance and the fact that so many things stay the same baffles me.

[@catwithmachinegun]

The paradox of the game being treated like a party game when balanced like a competitive game is crazy.

[@Klenner115]

And for some reason nurse and blight are immune to nerfs, so every killer is trash because we have to balance around them…..

[@protophileXD]

Yup lol

[@Vhillain]

blight literally got nerfed into the ground, his strongest tech was removed so he has to play a lot more like a standard killer and his addons are completely reworked, especially the C33 and Alchy ring that were his best addons aside from pure speed. He still has a strong power sure but it's nowhere near the potential it used to be, he isn't playing an entirely different game anymore like nurse.

[@Azarath415]

Cough cough no collision blight cough cough

[@theintruder6085]

Wtf are u even saying 😂😂😂😂 blight got nerfed to the ground , do u live behind a rock or what ?

[@Nerfhoopsdbd]

In low mmr, killer sided. High mmr, survivor sided

[@ItsSpringtrapingtime]

truly high mmr blight and nurse exist* survivors: 💀💀💀💀

[@Nerfhoopsdbd]

@@ItsSpringtrapingtime so do p100 neas

[@chrisspedling75]

Not true

[@dracodayss6566]

most players are in low mmr so game is technically killer sided

[@Nerfhoopsdbd]

@@dracodayss6566 depends on the killer. Survivors in lower mmr have trouble countering killer powers

[@Azarath415]

SBMM is just too confusing to me honestly.. when i play survivor, i usually get the worst possible SoloQ teammates and usually an average to great killer (usually doesn't sweat and just plays the game) but when i play killer, i either get survivors who are absolutely new to the game fresh out the womb with less than a few hundred hours or a sweaty team that manages to not get hooked and t bag at gate being a bunch of sore winners and such.

[@saddpigeon2551]

I play both sides , but enjoy more killer and i totally agree with you. It's not even that i'm mad about losing, it's part of improving and learning, it happens no big deal. But every once in a while a 4 team swf sweat squad that constantly sabotages , takes protection hits and flashlight saves does get my blood boiling

[@protophileXD]

@saddpigeon2551 Yeah balance aside this feeling sucks and survivor doesn't really have am equivalent because it's so layed back.

[@ganthc]

@@protophileXD Survivor does have an equivalent. Where you get tunneled out at 5 gens and only get like 3k points...and maybe got to play the game for 2 minutes. It sucks hard, especially if cakes were offered, and it happens a lot. My response is usually to switch to killer, get my 8 hooks and let everyone out. And hey, I still get 30K points easily and had fun playing a game for 12-15 minutes.

[@protophileXD]

@ganthc If your team let's you get tunneled at 5 gens then you probably weren't winning either way. Or it's you not sure.

[@protophileXD]

Just to be clear I'm not saying getting tunneled is fun but in 2024 the killer is throwing if he attempts it.

[@scribdeath7621]

​@ganthc It takes more faith than I have to believe a Survivor gets rolled and then turns around and plays Killer and "gets 8 hooks and let's everyone out." You either get rolled as Killer or tunnel and camp yourself like a good Survivor main does when playing Killer.

[@LeGabrielMan]

the problem with the high tier killers ( specifically Spirit and Nurse) is that they just deny the one of the two things survivors can do.

[@protophileXD]

Yeah, not gonna defend them at all.

[@FemboyKaiSaku]

yea which is why you change playstyle

[@voiceofjustice551]

instead you can inf outplay nurse even in open field bc she forced to play 50/50 so there alway chance to hit and always chance to dodge which much healthier for the game then looping in circles and throw semi god/god pallets,hope this helps

[@FemboyKaiSaku]

@@voiceofjustice551 how is a 50/50 guessing game more healthy than skill play 😭😭

[@voiceofjustice551]

@@FemboyKaiSaku what skill lol?💀looping in circles require very minor mec skill so on mid-high mmr its basically wasting of killer and surv time bc surv cant loop any tighter and usually killer cant do anything besides go on with this braindead move to catch up so neither side have any skill expression here💀,windows/pallets is 50/50 but in some cases can force lose lose situations for killer which again dont require much skill expression,you just throw god pallet or vault strong window-thats it,so if you see problem with nurse concept you probably "abuse" some of mentioned braindead strat which kinda sus,like all nurse do is actually force survs to play the game and show some skill so how is max skill expression per time char cant be heathiest option in the game?

[@senatorarmstrong1233]

Yeah the devs are def survivor sided. One thing they tend to forget along with every other survivor main is that the game is 1v4. Killers are already at a disadvantage number wise. The killer is the power role. Survivors are meant to cower in fear and hide, doing generators stealthfully and running like hell away from them. Instead there are like 20 perks that let the survivor duel the killer despite the role of survivor is supposed to be weaker. Also all the band aid fixes they give survivors to counter just normal strats. The base kit BT and the gen kick limit being examples. Gen kick limit was made to get rid of 3 gens but in reality a 3 gen is created when survivors aren't smart about what order they do gens. Sure a killer can herd survivors into making a 3 gen but more then often it's the survivor's fault. And the basekit BT went from letting survivors who just got off hook the ability to hide and heal more safely to being an offensive tool against the killer. Protection hits with the effect directly counter the reason it was added in the first place. And there's rumors that basekit Unbreakable is becoming a thing....Yeah...It's gotten that bad. Killers can't do anything no more. So survivors can play however they want, Make builds that synergize with the other survivor's builds, And goof around and embarrass the killer. Meanwhile the killer has to deal with possible SWF, 3 gens being done in the first chase, body protection hits, and can't afford time to be chill because of the first issue. Generators do too fast and they just need to rework the whole system. Take a page from Friday the 13th and make generator parts spawn around the map. Survivors have the install the parts instead of doing skill checks. Each part takes like 10-20 or even 40 seconds to install, time depends on the part. This would award survivors with less brain dead gameplay, makes them actually have to explore the map, and makes team work a lot more awarding since they can collect partsx and install them at the same time. What killers would get is easier chances to find survivors who are looking for parts, slower gen completion times, and more of a chance to get a foot hold on the survivors. Of course my concept is just something I threw together just now but honestly it seems a lot better than the system we got now.

[@dezignatedkiller1359]

This is the first take I've heard on how to fix some of the issues that doesn't include a way to punish the killer just because they want to play the game. It would also be way less boring than holding M1 while your teammate runs the killer in a circle around a rock for 5 minutes LOL.

[@davidtremblay7376]

Dbd is a survivor game. Killer is supposed to be just entertainment for survivors.

[@protophileXD]

Feels like it sometimes lol.

[@viipervenom4648]

Pyramid Head Oni r in the wrong spots

[@viipervenom4648]

Death slinger bubba clown knight and doctor r in the wrong spots also

[@chrisspedling75]

Umm no

[@AxisChurchDevotee]

Blame Almo.

[@dirkechoes1377]

Lets also not forget the devs leave overpowered Survivor perks FOR YEARS at a time 0 nerfs but the instant an op killer perk is even possible they nerf it the very next patch. DS lasted almost 5 years, Ultimate Weapon lasted 1 month

[@TMFUncharted]

All I mostly play is solo Q and as long as you get paired with people that understand the basics of the game and aren’t scared easily then the match almost always goes in our favor

[@The-Doctor6969]

i play both sides, probably more hours on survivor but recently have been playing exclusively killer. Its really just skewed towards whoever is more willing to lose pieces of their soul. Nasty perks, items, add-ons, etc. Survivors have comms/swf but killers have bm that can end the game in ten seconds. Killers offset BHVR "balance" if they ever use their abilities to completely stall the game and remove your ability to play, while swf offset the "balance" by sharing perks/info that was never intended to get shared. I do agree, though, that killer is completely off the fucking walls when youre losing and trying to win. Its constant work but i think the difference is losing as a survivor is basically going afk for an indeterminable amount of time and losing as killer is helplessly watching gens pop, which youre still up and around for

[@scribdeath7621]

I agree with one major point in your video, and that is that people complain about the wrong things. Every day when I'm in a Swf someone will complain about camping and especially tunneling and 90% of the time it's not happening. Even if it is, it's detrimental to the Killer to play that way so you should be happy he's doing it so your team can get more gens done.

[@Suspicious_Rush]

Game is still trash cause the devs would rather nerf the hell out perks rather than buff other perks. Game is so unbalanced and toxic… alright time to queue up again, should I bring a Murky Reagent or Map offering?

[@protophileXD]

@@Suspicious_Rush map offering 100%

[@opmason2293]

this entire update was just perk buffs

[@xtremefps_]

​@@protophileXD the map offering makes me go from "I'm going to be nice and farm" to "I'm slugging and tunneling out"

[@Azarath415]

Ppl choose to cry over perks non stop and not find possible counters or ways to not let the killer get value over the perk. A fun example is Noed.. it's a hex perk yet ppl would rather cry about how strong it is instead of cleansing a totem

[@viipervenom4648]

@@xtremefps_ nobody likes farming my guy

[@doug2555]

Haven't watched but I can prove the title of the video without needing to. Competitive scene ran by players has HEAVY restrictions. And I mean almost EVERY ruleset requires survivors to run 16 unique perks (no repeat perks, so for example 2 survivors can't run sprint burst). You take a look at this fact alone and you realize the game is survivor sided. If every match, all 4 survivors had some combination of Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, Deliverance, Off the Record, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline, Reassurance, etc. Killer loses every match. Doesn't matter if it's nurse with 4 slowdowns. Survivors can also bring 4 bnps or needles which are just ridiculous on top of no restrictions in normal games. To top it all off, most maps are are survivor sided with a HANDFUL of killer sided maps. Devs have made it better over the years but maps still favor survivors, it's why certain killers on comp only play on their best maps (Dredge on Midwich or Ghostface on Lery's) and they'll still get outed sometimes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say that a 4 man swf with best perks and bnps/needles win even against the most oppressive killers. 1k at most because of tunneling or face camping in end game.

[@alexejmaximoff1295]

I'm glad someone is adressing this. I'm quite new and want to play normally. No tryhard, no toxic builds, no camping or tunneling. But once I get better survivors or even when they play together, then it's terrible. Like I don't even stand a chance and it's not fun at all.

[@Knuffeldraak]

While one can understand the team balance may be survivor-sided, realize that the "Win Conditions" on each side also aren't the same. Survivors win by escaping ONLY through the exit. Dying is a loss, and a hatch is a draw. But a killer doesn't win only by killing all 4 survivors. 3 is enough for the killer to win, or 2 for a draw. So while there's more power to the survivors to perform in a match, the killer's objective 'to win' is also far easier to actually reach.

[@protophileXD]

@Knuffeldraak kinda agree but the "win condition" varies person to person. I view a 2k as a loss and a 3k with hatch to be a draw.

[@Knuffeldraak]

@@protophileXD "win condition" I'm talking about what the game itself mechanically registers as a win.

[@protophileXD]

@@Knuffeldraak where does it register win conditions? Sbmm is based off nothing but kills for killers

[@Knuffeldraak]

@@protophileXD uh no it's also measured off survivors. This was all explained like a year ago already.

[@protophileXD]

@@Knuffeldraak I was talking about killers as I said kills for killers. For survivor it's measured off of escapes only

[@thelegendaryorcgenocider4182]

The game is bastard sided; the games is unbalanced depending on what killer players bring, their perks, add-ons or the killers they play. Or survivor players bringing in the best items, offerings or perks. Some Killers are just so strong, that it's just a win button. While SWF is a decent chance to win. People who say that either side is the 'stronger' side simply does not have enough time in the game.

[@protophileXD]

I just disagree dude. Obviously if you use nurse with 4 slow downs and busted add-ons you're probably gonna win most of the time but on the other side if you use Freddy with 4 slow downs probably not. Imo survivor doesn't have this issue.

[@thelegendaryorcgenocider4182]

@@protophileXD Perkless and No Mither.

[@protophileXD]

@thelegendaryorcgenocider4182 no mither is supposed to be a meme perk though, Freddy is just bad because behavior hasn't done anything him. Also killers ≠ perks in the first place.

[@thelegendaryorcgenocider4182]

@@protophileXD May I also bring up playstyles, like slugging, proxy camping and tunneling. Strats that could just end games. Hell, those strats are effective against SWFs, too. Because survivors would want to save their friend(s). And what does a survivor have? A toolbox that speeds up repairs a little bit. And Medkits. A little decent to help you out sometimes, but nothing too serious. Maps and Keys are just useless 90% of the time until a survivor watches a Ayrun video, tries it once, then back to medkits with Exhaustion. And Flashlights are just avoidable by using common sense. If you or anyone has a problem with flashlights, it's just a skill issue.

[@kattkatt6961]

​@thelegendaryorcgenocider4182 if you want to coordinate with a half decent swf(meaning someone who can make a chase last 1 minute), and take decent toolboxes. You can get out in under 5 minutes and guarantee a 3 out if not a 4 out. Behavior just needs to add in game voice chat. Lower the gap between swf and solo players

[@phillipdoesstuff9091]

The problem is the gap between the best and the worst killers like you have nurse Billy who can either play around almost any loop and nurse who ignores the game mechanics and then you have Freddy who arguably doesn’t have a chase power at all

[@batatasabia]

Very nice comparasion with ovewatch there, because in OW we DID have broken strategies that required team play, mostly with dps that could one shot with a mercy pocket, and those instances get nerfed because if you can use a strategy then it is part of the game. Of course there would be matches that both supports would just recuse to play mercy, but when there's the chance of two decent players picking the right stuff you need to balance that too. But if I'm being fair, I think the real problem is that each side experiences to part of the game they are bad at harder. If we stick to base, the 1v1 is killers sided, as the killer is meant to down the survivour eventually (tho most annoying survivors metas are those who make downing survivor too difficult/impossible). But, the 4v1 is completly survivor sided, not only because 4 good players are simply going to be better then 1 good player, but because killers have difficulty dealing with split pressure. The problem tho, is that the killer constantly plays the 1v4, broken with moments of the 1v1. While survivors constantly play the 1v1, only playing the 1v4 when needed. The killers have to worry about gens, about all survivors, about exit gates, totens, pallet spawns and everything happening in the match if they want to win, only caring aboout looping, the moment the kilelr is (in theory) better at and can have the gameplay fantasy, in short bursts when finding survivors. In the other hand the survivors mostly have to worry about doing gens, hiding from the killer and looping, only caring for team play when a teammate needs help. The game for the survivor, especially for those who don't have enough game experience to understand the 1v4, is mostly chases, the aspect they are (in theory) worst at. Both sides main experiences is the one they are not meant to be good at, so that theu can be good at the other one. If a survivor can't win a specific interaction in chase they will say the game is killer sided, even if they looped for long enough and a gens gets done. If the killer loses 2 gens while dealing with one survivors on the other side of the map they will say the game is survivor sided, even if he had multiple chances to stop chase and go stop those gens. The gameplay that is mostly felt by both sides ended up inverted from the original fantasy. The survivors, who should be afraid of the all powerful killer in their own, but be able to escape by working together now think they should be able the loop a killer for 5 gens and escape. The killers, who should be dominating chases, but be outsmarted by team work now think they should be able to win without losing any gens or being body-blocked. Both sides are made to focus on the most annoying part for them, to focus in the aspect they are in a disavanteged. You can see it on what perks are popular/meta in each side: for survs they are perks that help YOU survive: adren, exhaustion perks, ds. For killers they are slowdown perks. I think the main problems is that some base parts of the game contributes to them. Solo Q makes teamwork miserable, not only match making, but also how much the devs seem to hate clear comunication between survs. The game makes teamplay so hard that, without external software, you will be inclined to play focusing on the 1v1. On the other side map design makes starting chases miserable, as the fun 1v1 gets hidden away from the killer by a desert of pressing w. That way even without teamplay survs can easily and acidentally make the 1v4 hell if the killer doesn't focous on it. I don't know if this all makes that much sense, but that's the feelng I get when playing DbD. I feel the game strays away a lot from the intended fantasy, forcing both sides to play mostly a game where they are in disadvantage. The game is both killer and survivor sided depending on what side of it you are, but sadly both parties get pushed to play on the one that's unfair to them. While the comunitty fights itself we lose the fact our problems are with the game at it's core, not with the other side. No matter how weak killer is you WILL feel like it's unfair to die quickly in chase because you can't see that, while losing the 1v1, that move won the 1v4. While yes, I do agree that a match is survivor sided (tho for me that is because the 1v4 has the most control over the pace of a match, and survs are better at that), the game will feel unfair to EVERYONE, because it's core gameplay incentivises you to play the game you are bad at and only look at it. (sorry for the big wall of text, but I am annoyed by how people don't get that more importantly then if the game is or not more leaning to one side, it FEEL like it is leaning ti the oposite side to everyone. Also sorry for any mistakes in writing, english is not my first language.) TL;DR: The game feels unfair for both sides because it insentivises you to focus on the aspect of the game that your role is purposefully weaker at

[@BaronByrne]

Really well-made video! My biggest problem with DBD is the choice of taking fun, off-meta killer perks (Causing you to have to concentrate more to make up for having less competitive perks) or boring gen-slowdown perks (Allowing you to play more comfortably against normal lobbies). TLDR: The fun perks make you lose more, while the Meta perks aren't interesting or exciting to use...

[@protophileXD]

@BaronByrne same here man

[@ohmatupapii]

I totally agree with the game being survivor sided. I’m a killer main who plays soloq and occasional swf, and it’s like night and day. Killer is either fun or incredibly stressful, cannot even enter a single chase without gens popping instantly and sweating (but good chases are fun if either side are just chilling). Then when I play survivor, it is the easiest thing 💀. I tend to go for chases and I always feel bad when it isn’t fun for either player, it sucks. Going on survivor for me is just either getting tunneled right off the bat or it’s “do gens, run sometimes”.

[@jm7781]

I agree that survivors are a bit strong than killers, but I think that is not the question. The problem is that survivors have a bunch of annoying builds that make the game miserable and force killers to play mean. Anti-carry is not that strong, but the counter is sluging that is not fun. Distortion is not that strong, but incentivises tunneling since one survivor is just better at hidding. Four flashlight bully squads are not that strong, but they sure are annoying. The maps are a different beast though, I think I got a map with like 20 pallets once, and safe loops are just too common.

[@kattkatt6961]

I once looped a killer for 3 minutes straight. From god pallets to safe pallets to god pallets to safe pallets. I'm not that good at survivor. A 3 minute chase for me is insane. It didn't require a single mind game from me. I just W key and drop the pallet after juicing the loop and get the safety run to the next super safe loop. Garden of Joy is hilarious as a map.

[@jm7781]

@@kattkatt6961 yeah, sounds insane. Hope you had fun, the killer sure did not.

[@nicholasbaca8065]

Im a killer main. The game is balanced around Blight, Billy, Spirit, etcetera.

[@nolski4590]

imo a lot of games are super boring. for example when I get a 3 or 4 stack swf and I go into a 30-45 second chase and 2-3 gens are popped. I don't care about winning that much it's just not fun because I am being punished for doing my objective, chasing survivors, and even when I do win chases theres some guy sitting behind a wall with a flashlight or a flashbang or something to make me literally unable to play the game. Sorry for the rant but at the end of the day, I still play the game because of those fun matches where it's tense and both sides have a chance to win, but the games where you get utterly destroyed and can't really do much about it are what turns new players away for good.

[@nolski4590]

Just to add on, the fact that both sides (killers and survivors) for the most part feel like the game is favored to the other side is horrible and just goes to show how unfair it can feel even when the game is in your favor.

[@protophileXD]

@@nolski4590 absolutely agree. The feeling of not being able to do anything sucks and it's so prevalent in dbd.

[@fivepointt]

As someone who plays both sides and doesnt run ANY slowdown on killer, i do genuinely think the game is pretty well balanced right now, other than maps ofc but, even without slowdown i find that i win most of my games on killer just because i play the macro game really well, most survivor squads don't know how to deal with any amount of slugging or proxying when they are good plays to make, saying one side is better than the other requires unspoken rules to be in effect for gameplay for that to be the case imo

[@protophileXD]

@fivepointt I'm not trying to be an ass but I cannot fathom how you can win most matches without slow down on anyone but the top 3, who do you play?

[@kattkatt6961]

I honestly think that is due to just, idiot survivors thinking "selfish build = good", when information sharing builds on survivor are actually just broken. If you go into a match with perks that give your soloQ team mates info instead of a perk build that's entirely about ME ME ME, you will see a massive increase in your general escape rate.

[@theronin928]

I think the reason why its survivor sided is very simple. Its about the money.. i think survivor mains buy more cosmetics then a killer main would. Ppl like to buy skins for there survivor of choice. I bet you anything. If we just had the stats on which side buys the most cosmetic, you will have ur answer.

[@chrisspedling75]

WRONG. Without killers game is dead there already isnt enough of them. They make sure to cater to them just as much if not more

[@Schizoknight]

​@@chrisspedling75For example?

[@chrisspedling75]

@@Schizoknight gen regression

[@Schizoknight]

@@chrisspedling75 Elaborate please. From what I've seen gen regression has only been nerfed. No more 200% Ruin or even Call of Brine, now it's just 100% Ruin and pitiful 25% additional regression rate on Call of Brine. Pop Goes The Weasel used to be 25% flat, now it's 20% of a current progression. They buffed it to 30% of current at one point, but then decided "no" for some reason and now it's 20% of current. Pain Res used to be 15% for a hook, then they capped it at 1 hook on each survivor for 25% for every hook, which was a pretty okay change, rather then a flat out nerf, but then they decided to nerf it so now it's 20%. Deadlock used to be 30 seconds, now it's 25. So what gen regression buffs are you talking about? 5% gen kicks for limited amount of kicks that discourages the use of even non-regression gen kick perks like Nowhere To Hide and Dragon's Grip? I wouldn't call that "catering to killers".

[@chrisspedling75]

@Schizoknight Bruh. A fucking paragraph? I dont know or care for all the nerdy details like you. All i know is that every single killer I go against now is using some kind of gen regression perk, often times more than 1, which confirms that the current system is basically broken. It certainly doesn't favor survivors. It takes too fucking long for survivors to recover from altruistic demanding situations AND THEN HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH . By the time they're back on gens and any significant progress is made, one or more survivors are dead and the game is chalked. Back tf up off me cuz this here is the truth, nerd

[@shadyjalapenos]

hate to be this guy but in a game of 5 players, one sides probably gonna leave the match feeling unhappy, and it boils down to numbers at that point. i feel like the devs are smart enough to realize that if the game was killer sided, it would die within a year and its simply because the needs of the many conquer the needs of the few. while you do need both sides to even have a match, one side has innate character abilities, a handful (give or take) of decently powerful perks, hooks within 30 feet of each other across the whole map, and not to mention you literally can't create hook deadzones anymore as a killer. these things (especially having an ability SPECIFIC to each killer) are objectively more fun for the killer side. the other side (the survivors) has a couple rinky dink items that really don't contribute much, the best being a medkit which can be pretty useful in the right situation, but the rest are aggressively mediocre (some are downright useless, looking at you green keys), even most of the toolboxes/flashlights require an entire build around them just to justify not bringing a medkit instead. and sure, survivors have good perks too, but as i said already, killers have that too so it's not really an advantage. at the end of the day, it's the same reason why it took ages to get a killer game in 2v8 but if you click survivor, you were already in a match. no one wants to play survivor if you're basically just an AI running around waiting for your turn to die. basically, survivors need to have fun too (bullying killer is not fun, FYI) and making the game killer sided will snuff out any of that until there aren't any survivors left

[@bwybwy5392]

Completely agree. The worst part is honestly comms swf. Discord being their 5th perk slot completely ruins the game

[@cameronroddy9316]

Killers/killer perks can only get a all round buff like we did last time is if Nurse, Blight and Spirit get the nerf hammer, The big three are the reason all perks get a Heavy nerf or are toned down in development /PTB and the state killer is in now is because of the stronger killers. The game would 100% be in a better state if the big three get a nerf but alot of tryhard(NOT ALL PLAYERS but you know what I am talking about) play them and buy skins so its a fat chance that will happen.

[@protophileXD]

Yup, can't have good perks when they can be used by busted killers, couldn't agree more.

[@kattkatt6961]

The main issue with Blight is just, world's stupidest add-ons. His power is so wildly different depending on add-ons that one blight will play completely differently from another. One hand its fun and interesting, other hand its too unpredictable and gives the blight too much power. Nurse imo is super fun for both sides if you've taken the time to learn how she works, just nothing beats dancing at the edge of her range to toy with her blinks, its very much like baiting skill shots in a MOBA. Spirit is a weird one because she did get nerfed recently but she's also just bugs galore. I feel like if they fixed her bugs she'd be a lot better to play as and against.

[@fruitman2426]

I find that most of my killer matches are not sweat fests at all and the few that are tend to not be as one sided as one would think. If I'm bringing a build that isn't made to win every match and get the random full comp 4 man with brand new parts and map offerings, I'd cut my losses and try my best. Ultimately these kinds of matches happen one time out of 20 and when winning isn't the main goal for me anyways, it doesn't bother me. There just isn't a big incentive to win every match. The only thing the game gives you for winning is bp and a higher grade which also just gives bp. I have no reason to get mad over losing a game against random players who brought better perks than me. At the same time, I'm not going to obliterate a team that's clearly not as skilled as me for the sake of getting an easy win. The one thing that would change this mentality is if they added iri shards to rank rewards or if you could see yours and the opponent's mmr. If players had the chance to see their opponent's mmr, it would give you some kind of information to prepare with instead of hours or character prestige.

[@protophileXD]

@fruitman2426 definitely agree with the Iri shard thing and the mmr thing, they know their system isn't good whatsoever though so they definitely wouldn't even consider it. Also I'm glad you play for fun but I'm just a competitive person at heart and I like to win. You're 100% having a better time than I am tho.

[@semplar2007]

same here. if you go into pubs and sweat nonstop, u will boost your mmr and eventually will be getting 4 swfs with 4 bnps or 4 syringes nonstop, these will identify u being sweaty and start humiliating you real quick, i mean by bagging and clicking. if u focus more on chase rather than winning, take a chill build (i take only deadlock and no other slowdown/regress), play for 8 hooks, u'll really enjoy the chase, mindgames, get better at this game much faster, and when u win, survivor will accept their defeat with respect, and leave nice comments for your fair playstyle. if u lose, then u have nothing to regret, because u didn't play tourney where u instatunnel to make 3v1 and then slugfest. one time i've lost real quick on rpd cause i was doing trapper achievement, and survivors were really good at disarming my traps and dropping pallets, they did gens real fast and escaped, one guy was like "why do u genrush u idiots, go play skillcheck simulator online, i wanted to loop" - "same here, gl next" i said, and i felt zero fault at losing, because trapper is pretty weak ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ not much i could do there

[@Insanity-vv9nn]

Thats actually the reality of the game, neither side is truly broken in favor because it has a divided community. Some people play very chill, others play sweaty and they are far in between.

[@muppet5760]

@@protophileXD "but I'm just a competitive person at heart and I like to win.but I'm just a competitive person at heart and I like to win." - that means you play survivor a lot because you like winning? I play solo and lose 80 to 90%, please do tell me how you manage to win most games as survivor, if it is solo (most games seem to be solo q). 60% killrate across all games seems to be rather killer sided, no? I would expect the % to be higher at low mmr or solo q. And if those are most games being played .... then the game would be killer sided? What do you think?

[@RickOConnell327]

Editing is fantastic, Mic quality is fine, only (and I mean ONLY) problem i see is diction. Enunciating your words more clearly will be a huge boon! Very underrated channel, can't wait to see more. Subscribed!

[@scribdeath7621]

I totally agree, I liked the message of the video but it was hard to understand a lot of the slurred and mumbled words (forgive me if you have a speech impediment, I'm not trying to make fun of you just trying to be helpful 😊)

[@jaida3377]

IMO Haddonfield and probably Midwich are most certainly killer sided, but I agree with you on pretty much everything else even as a survivor main. The people that say DBD is killer sided are people that either only play solo queue or people that are genuinely bad at the game. In terms of power the order is 3. solo queue 2. killer 1. SWF. If matchmaking wasn't decided by a monkey throwing darts then it would be abundantly clear. I've always thought that if solo queue is brought to the level of SWF, then the game could be way more easily balanced from there. On another note, the game has been balanced so that survivors have time to do side objectives like chests and archives. The game is not balanced around efficient teams doing gens. This ends up making killers feel blindsided when they go against a team that's actually gen efficient.

[@MightyJabroni]

Honestly, the argument of intrinsically killer or surivor sided maps is silly, by now. There are so many different killers, who synergize with maps very differently. Painting maps as being exclusively killer or survivor sided is far too reductive, at this point (with Badham being the only exception, imo).

[@jaida3377]

@@MightyJabroni I didn’t mean that absolutely no killers would be bad on those maps, I meant the majority of killers would preform well on it. Therefore it’s killer sided.

[@Insanity-vv9nn]

I think the real problem now with the game is…they don’t know if they want a competitive or party game(which is a marketing problem, they need to make money). The only way to balance DBD is to turn into a casual game and remove balance, give both sides broken perks, broken add ons, items, etc. the era of DBD where I had the most fun was when survivors had 4 second chance perks and killers had old ruin. Why? It was fun chaos. Now every match is very predictable/boring. Same perks on every killer, survivors pre drop every pallet and hide, they don’t try any new move. It’s no longer a adrenaline heavy game, if the gens are done, you won, if a survivor DC you won

[@kattkatt6961]

There are a couple "killer sided" maps. But they're dependent on what killer you're playing. the Otz offering list gives a fairly good guide to map balance imo. But the "killer sided" maps are not as insane as lets say Garden of Joy. If you get 4k'd on garden of joy, the killer is exponentially better than you or running noed and you guys didn't respect that chance. Eyrie of crows is another one. You can 3 gen yourself on Eyrie. You have to actively try to 3 gen yourself. If you even understand main building A LITTLE, eyrie is a free 3 minute loop unless the killer wins a super risky mind game. Ayrun has a match on that map with something like a 5 minute chase. If you're good at looping Main on both of those maps are pseudo infinites. If we look at a "killer sided" map like Elementary school or Dead Dawg. Well Dead Dawg has a 1/3 chance to spawn with a literal infinite in main. Its one of the few still in the game. And Elementary is only "killer sided" because the map is tiny. It also has a super boring design of every pallet being god or bad. Though more god than bad pallets. If a map is survivor sided, its usually actual hell on earth for the killer player. If its killer sided, it just means there's a casino edge for you. And we're not even going to talk about badham. That map sucks.

[@kattkatt6961]

also one more thing that I forgot. The weak link argument is AWFUL. We want to encourage tunneling out someone? We should balance the game around tunneling someone? Someone should have an awful match because "balance"? HELL NO. EDIT: Also wild that so many people "disagree" with you then say the exact same shit you said in the closing of this video. Like hello? Did you watch the video at all or just rage comment everything?

[@protophileXD]

​@@kattkatt6961they definitely rage commented and I really like the thing you said about tunneling because I never even considered that as well. If you wanna use the "weak link" to draw out better players than you really are gonna have to focus them heavily.

[@brianchristgau1415]

DBD is for SWFs. That is their bread and butter.

[@onikiller10]

I think the answer is much easier then most people think. Behaviour is an awful company and puts profits above everything else so at the end of the day its selling 4 cosmetics against 1.

[@EnigmaEcho42]

It’s pretty simple math. 16 perks vs 4 for a killer. It’s odd as a killer I load in yesterday and my MMR should’ve reset and my first match I get a P100 and 49 level squad. Ggs to them but how is that balanced? I think random chaos exposes peoples reliance on perks vs skill. The game is heavily leaned toward success of the survivors and it’s not even close

[@daniels2745]

I’ll have to greatly disagree with the map segment, especially with current maps like Lampkin, RPD, whatever the new Sable map is

[@protophileXD]

Rpd for example would be sided for a wraith but bad for a billy. My logic is it can go either way so it's fairly balanced

[@daniels2745]

@@protophileXD Ehhh. I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t think that really works against it. If a majority of the killer roster benefits from a map, but some don’t does that inherently make it even? I’d say no it’s still a killer-sided map.

[@protophileXD]

@daniels2745 I wouldn't say it's a majority though only stealth killers and a few others.

[@daniels2745]

@@protophileXD I’d say a good majority do great on RPD. Stealth, range, trap, etc. Really only killers that suffer are ones that have special means of map traversal. HillBilly being the most obvious Edit: For typos :D

[@Nick-N-Plus-Infinity]

​@@protophileXDLampkin is definitely killer sided now. And the fact you didn't put a single map in your killer sided list but put 14 as survivor sided makes you look very biased. Furthermore, there has been a lot of changes to maps recently. There are less pallets, or a lot more useless ones that guarantee a hit for killer. I've also been noticing a lot more dead zones where whole sections of a map can have nothing. Some maps have been getting made smaller too. There are definitely survivor sided maps but there is definitely killer sided ones too. Just asking you to be a bit more honest.

[@philliptran228]

It is survivor sided when both sides are skill equalled. You see this more clearly in comp games when peak killer meets peak SWF team. Generally the only time killer gets 3K+ is when the SWF team isn't performing at peak whether they were mentally surprised or made a bunch of mistakes. I have to say though that dead dawg saloon and midwich pre PTB updates has always been killer sided compared to neutral tier. However, dead dawg saloon is one of the few killer sided maps that have a very strong main building as the only beacon of hope for survivors. One of the reasons why its killer sided is the gen placements. Protect the right gens and you're pretty good. Same with RPD, its killer sided. It dampens most killer powers but its still killer sided. I'm happy when I get those maps because I know its almost a guaranteed win if I don't get tilted.

[@ry1x33]

the fact that you're just forced to bring gen slowdown is so boring bringing anything else is just asking to lose , even if you get your chases and downs in 30 sec those gens are still popping so fast its so boring

[@radioactiveelement471]

What happened to all the gen slowdown? There is absolutely no good perks for it anymore after nerfs and conversely they keep adding more and more perks for gens to be done faster.

[@Azarath415]

I feel like most if not all DbD content creators just sometimes over exaggerate some stuff in the game and it makes it so ppl who watch the content creators just go along with it and say "oh, this is bad" or "oh, this is OP, blah blah". Basically ppl just go along with one opinion from one guy and instead of making their own opinions, they just choose to love or hate something becuz one guy said so. Ppl choose to never make their own opinion and thats why ppl choose to just hate on killers such as skull merchant just becuz one guy or something chooses to hate for no reason as soon as they released and everyone suddenly chose they hate her as well and everyone says the same thing. "She 3 gens", "she holds the game hostage", or everyone's favorite, "she's a thirst trap" or "she's boring as and against".. like firstly.. every killer can 3 gen, she only made it slightly easier due to having base kit info. The person holding the game hostage got inspired to do it becuz their favourite content creators did it and think its funny, and a 4 minute DC penalty isn't gonna hurt you, plus in mu experience, i never fsced a skull Merchant who did whatbppl claimed she does. And the only reason she was "boring" is becuz everyone just hates her over simple stuff any killer can do. Its easier yo find stuff to hate over the stuff you can like. I know it's opinion to say if a killer is boring or not, but if everyone says the exact same thing of she's boring becuz she can 3 gen or something, just DC or if she's somehow boring to play as, then don't play her.

[@mikeras3058]

I think that there are too many variables as to exactly say which side the meta leans to. The variables in question also are in no way equal and it imo it goes like this: the Killer picked > Perks > Individual competence > Maps > Addons > Items Won't really include things like strats (camping, tunneling, slugging), as they are basically included in the competence (skill) part. So, the oh so obsolete tunneling can still make the killer 4k and make you punch a hole through the screen if your team has 0 to negative game sense. Despite all this, I'd still say the game is fairly balanced, but the already so money hungry and trash BHVR we all know still do have work cut out for them for the future.

[@protophileXD]

@mikeras3058 there are many variables but when you work out percentages in the ones that matter the most the better role reveals itself in my mind. Killer picked: most killers are not great Perks: perks impact survivors more as it's 4 perks vs 16 and killer perks aren't really made to equal that. Individual compontence: there's a larger chance of a bad survivor in a match than a bad killer impacting the whole team however it's extremely easy to not be able to capitalize off of then. Maps: even if you disagree and think there are some killer sided maps there's no debate that there's more survivor sided ones. Addons: same as perks, 8 v 2 and most killers don't run busted add-ons a majority of the time. Also 4x higher chance of busted addon on a survivor team.

[@azaxYyYyY]

on the highest level is close to balance while some of the killers are slightly better than 4men, and some of the killers are slightly below the killer and some even farther below. for example the likes of nurse/blights and prob billy are slightly more powerful than a 4men in top level matchup, i would argue that an insanely good spirit would be there as well, but to beat average killer u need to be above average survivor nowdays, and to beat top killer u need a top team only while is not the same opposite, killers can cheese wins nowdays, and by all means all stats on all ranks shown that killers are better than survivors.

[@Keygentlemen]

No perks in this game for killers were ever comparable to survivor perk metas; old DS, old MFT, old MoM, old OoO, etc. Ruin was the closest it ever came and it still wasn't close Oh moris used to be OP back in the day? Yeah so did BNP and Sabo and exhaustion perks and pallet vacuum and (the list goes on). Now individual killer kits, I will readily admit are a whole nother story

[@protophileXD]

@Keygentlemen Absolutely and I really should have made this point clearer in the video. Like old deadhard was actual hell and people still acted like it wasnt an issue

[@sambeast13]

Not sure how the game is survibor sided? Litterally no killer has under 53% Kill rate. Many of them have 60% + Kill rate... How? And yet again BHVr are changing the maps in favor of Killers. 50% Kill is a draw. Over that is win. That's not an opinion, thats just numbers and logistics.

[@protophileXD]

What counts as a win varies player to player and those numbers aren't accurate to skilled players as most matches are bad players fighting bad players, just the nature of video games.

[@kattkatt6961]

yet consider that a singular survivor giving up on hook at 4 or 5 gens often auto leads to a 3 or 4k? Then consider that most killers can secure at least 1k against uncoordinated solos (most players in this game). Again Kills =/= skill. This has been proven over a million times. Killer and survivor players have proved that. Degenerate game play patterns can lead to 4ks. Extremely skillful and calculated playstyles can lead to losses. Kills =/= skill. If we consider 25% kill rate to be the realistic minimum for a killer. then suddenly 60% doesn't seem crazy. When you get 75%. its a 50/50 if you get a 4k or not. Its not a linear curve. You're treating kill rate wrong in 2 ways. 1. its not an indicator of skill 2. its not a linear progression of "success" 3ks are very uncommon because a 3k usually leads to a 4k. Killers often can find hatch easier. 0ks are also uncommon because often times a killer getting stomped that badly will try and at least get 1k. If you get a 0k, its laughable nowadays. Bully squad tech doesn't exist anymore. It requires at least a little braincells to get a 4 out. But a 3 out? that's easy even for a bunch of people who hate each other on the same team. Also keep in mind that the published kill rate data doesn't include any DCs. Killers will DC a 0k or 1k game because when you get fucked that badly anyone will get tilted. If you're running a hex build and in 1 chase you've lost all 4 of them, often times people will DC. Just like people will give up if the killer gets 2 or 3 hooks before they've even finished one gen. The quitting attitude skews the data tremendously.

[@roryfarrugia7717]

this is what the statistics do. They deceive you and make you think the game is killer sided when it's really just bad players dying. If every survivor was like knightlight killer would have a less than 10% kill rate.

[@cleit1802]

@@protophileXD There is an objective "win" in the game tho. Doesn't matter what someone personally considers a win.

[@blackout1893]

I'm a killer main, I play singularity and huntress. I genuinely think its a pretty fair 50/50 split down fairness. If i lose a game as killer its my fault, i messed up I'm not gonna be a BHVR shill because I know they mess up more than a multi million dollar company should HOWEVER There is no such thing as killer or survivor sided maps strictly. certain killers do better on certain maps. You a good ass huntress? Cornfields will seem like a literal hell for survivors where there is no safe move they can make guaranteeing their safety however if you're on a indoor map huntie seems less of a threat. Big map for someone like ghostface or meyers and you will have a rougher time I dont see a issue with most of anything in the game besides things that cant be changed (killer ability design) I average 3-4 kills each of my games

[@zarovakalex9272]

I play both survivor and killer and the game does feel survivor sided but probably because I'm much better at survivor. it seems survivor has better maps and perks, but the statistics say the game is killer sided, so idk.

[@BlaireBlaireBlaire]

honestly these days statistically i agree as someone who almost exclusively plays survivor, BUT 90% of the players are SO INCOMPETANT solo queue is bordering impossible most days despite the game being more survivor sided, but you cant balance that because the "fix" is buffing perks which makes swfs way OP or nerf things because of swfs which then solo queue is even more miserable lol whole games design needs a rework

[@BlaireBlaireBlaire]

only way its fixable is adding game chat, texting for consoles and shortened sentences like mobile and making it so you can see others perks and like probably basekit bonds or something and then nerf a bunch of perks because you have built in information and built in swf capabilities if you chose not to use them then thats on you. and EVERYTHING needs a tutorial holy f*ck solo queue players are so dumb they need a tutorial to look at the thing thats trying to kill you, but just one of these things would take behaviour a year so its never happening lol

[@protophileXD]

Exactly, feels impossible to properly balance.

[@lockedin9307]

Good video and good points. Don't bother responding to the negative comments that don't elaborate at all. Keep up the good work! 👍

[@Yoishking101]

I would agree 4-5 years ago. Based on dbd stats all killers have a kill rate above 60% on average or greater. Second, define a win. There has never been a defined “win”. You just kill and survive. Not everyone plays to survive and many people do not look at this game as a esport-comp match. Like do survivors when as a group or solo? Do they need 3 or more escape? Does a killer win when they get a 3k or more? No one knows and therefore no one’s objective per match is the same. And lastly, the solo experience is not the same as 4 man squad. Solo players (if I remember) have a 20-30% escape rate while 4 man comps have double that. On top of that, 60% of the player base is solo.

[@protophileXD]

@Yoishking101 as stated before those stats aren't the average match for me and you because most of the player base is bad, that's why nurse is the worst killer and someone like pinhead is near the top. Also did you watch the video because I talk about soloq

[@Yoishking101]

@@protophileXD I did. You strictly talked about your experience and didn’t bring up data behavior has brought up over the years.

[@protophileXD]

@Yoishking101 yeah as I believe the data is irrelevant

[@kattkatt6961]

Yet no one talks about why the solo rate is so low. Its because selfish perk choices may give you an overall edge to your personal survival but they hurt the overall chances for the team. Distortion is the main one I see. If you run that perk and the Killer sees only other people, well they're going to go after them and ignore you. Which means that unless your ass is planted on a gen and you're doing crazy plays, 3 people now have to deal with pressure that normally is spread over 4. And it only gets worse the more distortions are in the match. And if everyone has it? Well now 1/4th of your build is wasted on a generally bad perk that's only purpose is to make the killer tunnel other survivors. If you switch your survivor build to be more about giving your SoloQ team mates info (given you're not in piss pit elo where a 30 second chase is "long") you will see that general escape rates come towards 60% for both solo and SWF but not the individual player's escape rate. You can conversely think of it as the Killer's kill rate trending towards 40%. Kindred is mad underrated. It lets you know lots of info about the killer for the cheap price of 1 hook. Then we have the simple solution. Add a comm system in game. Now SWF and Solo has a smaller gap. Now game balance can improve so that both sides are less focused on being assholes and more focused on having fun. And to encourage team play, give survivors bonus blood points based on how many escape. like 25% extra per person you get out. BHVR never gonna do that though, lowers the grind time of the game and doesn't directly make money. Actually encourages team play too.

[@bagofnickels]

I just started playing, I exclusively play killer and I picked The Hillbilly because chainsaws are cool. Feels like I win most games and it feels like a killer sided game.

[@protophileXD]

@bagofnickels that's because you just started playing. This game has sbmm (skill based matchmaking) and your matches are very likely to have less good players

[@bagofnickels]

@@protophileXD Ah I see, that makes sense, thanks👍 :)

[@Maximusls2400]

Ah yess…. With the new update including longer hook stages should be great for killers and not more difficult

[@zyxel27]

Great video. The root of this problem is that people refuse to learn the game or improve: they want BHVR to make it as easy as possible, and the devs give them what they want.

[@invincible2749]

The map tier list is questionable at best: Hawkins, Haddonfield, RPD East, Saloon, Wreckers Yard, Midwich, Lery's and Toba Landing (also, The Game, but that's really depending on the killer) are all really good for killer, if they choose to play them correctly. Meanwhile Rotten Fields has one of the lowest killer winrates of all time, Ormond is also heavily survivor sided. There is no way Mother's Dwelling is heavily survivor sided after its latest update which reduced its size.

[@protophileXD]

@invincible2749 I'm sorry but what killers benefit on the game?

[@invincible2749]

@@protophileXD stealth killers, nemesis, skullie, nurse, pyramid head, knight, DOCTOR, killers who use surge. I'm sure i still forgot some. It's also generally good for 3 gens.

[@protophileXD]

@invincible2749 not sure how pyramid head or nemesis benefit? Also no it's not good for 3 genning because if your have no movement it can take 20+ seconds to get up a floor.

[@invincible2749]

@@protophileXD the gens are so close to each other it doesnt matter, nemmy and phead benefit because they dont give a shit about safe pallets

[@invincible2749]

Also i forgot to mention Legion with iri button, Hex placement on this map can be nutty aswell

[@xFrosten]

What youtubers think that the average game is evenly matched? If we look at what Otz has done extensive testing on, he literally proves that the game at an average level is EXTREMELY killer sided (I am a killer main btw). I am talking about the videos where he goes no perks, no add-ons, "nice guy no tunnel" and then counts his kills. On average he still performs with 3+ kills which heavily suggests that DBD is in average games killer sided (which it 100 % is, there is no arguing that). The ONLY place where the game becomes survivor sided is in top 1 % MMR or competitive play, where survivors are heavily restricted and only top tier killer characters are playable This leads to the conclusion that DBD is heavily killer sided at its core (average pub lobbies, even against SWF's the game is really killer sided). And in fully optimized play the game becomes 100 % survivor sided. There is also an argument to be made about MMR and why so many people think the game is "survivor sided" when they literally inflate their own MMR to a degree that they don't actually deserve. (I.e. tunneling, camping, sweating against average lobbies = higher MMR, even if the survivors are straight up trolling / not taking the game all that seriously). And if you do these strats in non-competitive play, then you only have yourself to blame for getting games that are way out of your league. That being said I tunnel and camp as well sometimes, so its not like I have anything against it, I just think its hypocritical to call the game survivor sided just because you play in a way that is extremely sweaty / competitive in games that do not require you to play like this "Anyone who thinks the game is killer sided is braindead in my book". Your entire argument is based on your own experience, where is the statistical analysis? You have SO MANY things you can cover like kill rates or otz's "experimental games" (and he has done so many), yet your entire argument is based upon "feelings" and what I assume is a small amount of experience (you said you where a survivor main, so I am guessing your killer hours is below 1k but I could be wrong about this) Also where are those tierlists from? Billy is literally top 3 atm, this is commonly accepted by any player with a decent amount of hours in the game lmao

[@xFrosten]

I'm gonna make a separate comment to reply to your argument with overwatch vs DBD. The reason this logic applies to DBD and not overwatch is because DBD is not a competitive game. There is competitive play but the devs NEVER intended for the game to be competitive. Saying that there is only BS on survivor side is also kind of whack. There is a reason 3 genning got nerfed, camping got nerfed and that the devs are constantly adding anti-tunnel perks. Because not only does these things make the average games extremely unfair they also make the game extremely unfun for the receiving end. Also in overwatch they don't base their balancing on feelings, they balance according to statistics, which they also do in DBD so your entire logic is completely flawed. I.e. Nurse hsa the lowest kill rate in the game and has had that for quite a while now, does that mean she needs a buff? If this was overwatch she would've received one

[@xFrosten]

Also if a noob faces a full SWF bully sabo squad then ask yourself. What did he do to get there? The MMR system is in the best state its ever been and the ONLY way for you to face extremely difficult matches is if you use every competetive advantage you can take. I.e. slugging, camping, tunneling, 3 genning. (This goes for survivor as well btw. which is in my opinion a lot harder to reach top MMR, but then again this is not based no facts). Everything also depends on what you consider a loss / draw / win. But by the most popular opinion on this 2 kills = draw, 3 kills = win, then the game is BY STATISTICS still heavily killer sided, with every single killer having a 55 % + killrate, even the weakest ones like Nurse (Obvious joke). All of this is despite the fact that you have killers that are literally throwing for clips on Wesker, Huntress (me), Blight etc. and also despite the fact that a lot of killer players go out of their way to follow the "survivor rulebook" and not tunnel / camp / slug even if the survivors they play against are sweating for the win. Edit: Sorry for wall of text, I just find this topic very interesting and hopefully you don't take anything I said personally

[@protophileXD]

I like this topic too but I blatantly disagree. 1. The otz argument I do not like being if a person who plays this game for a living uses a top tier killer he will probably win. In my mind this proves nothing because we're talking about average settings yet this is a top tier player. 2. I don't think you're defending the mmr system but if you are it shouldn't be like that in the first place. It needs to take more into account to be more than 25% accurate. 3. This game is absolutely competitive, any game where the objective is to work against another player is competitive, the goal is to win is it not? 4. I could be more statistical however things like published kill rates always have a noobstomp killer at the top and I don't find it accurate to someone who knows what they're doing. These are literally the average match but the average match is with bad players on both sides because most people are bad. (Also I do have more than 1k on killer but I'm not sure about the exact number but since when has 1k not been enough experience in a video game???) 5. As I said positions in the tier list are debatable but in my mind Billy isnot on par with nurse, blight, spirit etc. 6. 3 genning was annoying but not only has it been essentially removed its also not effectively done by most killers powers. 7. OW has horrible balence they absolutely do make changes off feelings, next video is about OW actually.

[@xFrosten]

@@protophileXD 1. The argument with otz is that he plays a ton of different matches and despite being someone with 10k+ hours he is still arguably "average" at the game in my opinion. The experiments he did was with all killers, where he would compare playing i.e. trapper with nothing vs nurse with everything and so on, overall he scored a kill rate of mostly above 3 across all the different settings he put himself under. That's why I think who has the highest edge in the game, this is worth considering 2. The MMR system is hard to defend, I mean it can always improve... but it is the most balanced its ever been in my opinion and if you are "bad" at the game you get harshly punished for playing "dirty" or against the "survivor rulebook", so arguing that survivors have the advantage because of this is in my opinion invalid, since you basically inflate your MMR by playing in a competitive manner, when the opposing side isn't. A good example of this that I experienced was when I was facing a plague whom I ran for SOOO long, like 3+ minutes long, yet the game is still a loss for the survivor side, because a game can easily be turned with a good basement hook or altruistic survivors (also it was solo Q so there's that). After the game they seemed upset and I told them that playing like this you will find yourself vs survivors like me, who can run you for multiple minutes and that's just how it is, he said I was bad and then I asked for a 1v1 in customs my runtime = 5+ minutes his approximately 1 minute and he understood my point. 3. Yes it is player vs player but that doesn't mean it is competitive. Devs intend for it to be a party game and therefore it doesn't have esports events and most people would consider a game like this a non-competitive game. But I 100 % understand where you're coming from, because the definition of competitive is extremely vague and doesn't really fit the idea that most people have when considering if a game is competitive or not. But if you look at the most competitive matches in DBD, you can really only call people doing win streaks, or comp events competitive the rest is pretty casual. (I.e. people going for fun plays > winning the game like flashlight save attempts etc. or killers throwing for clips) 4. I understand your point, but I think when considering what is OP / what isn't or whose side decides a nerf, you HAVE to look at what the majority of the player base is experiencing, especially considering what the devs are going for (for it to be a non-competitive party game). In any case the devs openly states that they are going for an average of 50 % killrate and that's what they balance the game around, they don't balance the game around fully optimized play, because the only setting where you actually see this is in comp (Which again is completely player hosted with their own rulesets etc., so the devs don't even have to balance around this, since the comp players do it themselves). 5. Anything is debatable, but when you take a look at fully optimized play there are only very few killers that actually work. Blight, Nurse, Spirit and Billy are among those. This is also what you said the game should be balanced around, it should be balanced around how strong a killer / survivor can be at its peak or did I misunderstand that in your vid? Because in fully optimized play BIlly is top 3 undoubtedly. He is fairly difficult to play just like nurse so average people would consider him "weak", but then again isn't it their own fault for being "bad" at him and didn't you say the game shouldn't be balanced around this? 6. It has been heavily nerfed and tbh I disagree with this change, 3 genning was one of the few ways a killer could contest a strong survivor team and now that it's removed killers have nothing to fall back on when they "play nice" for the first few minutes of the game just to find that all the survivors sweated out the first 3 gens and now they are screwed x). That being said some maps had DISGUSTING rng, where some 3 gens where literally so close to each other that it would be completely impossible for survivors to win. I had a 3 gen once where the gens where all in a 20 meter radius and I couldn't do anything but laugh at how cringe that "win" for me was. 7. Tbh I don't know anything about OW, I just assumed they balanced it similarly to league, since both have competitive environments Wall of text again, I truly apologize xD

[@protophileXD]

Idk know If the other comment went through or not but I think we should do debate on discord. I'll even upload it if it's ok with you.

[@manateeia]

Personally, I don't care about which sided the game is as it is not enjoyable on either side in its current state. On survivor side the MMR caps too fast so you'll never get games based on YOUR SKILL. Instead, you get lumped together with everyone from brainless bots to people "just having fun". On killer side it's nice and dandy until you get the p100 sweaty OTR + DH + flashbang team who just wants to make your life miserable, unless you know what you're doing. Before that you'll usually get steamroll games especially when 90% of the killers released between 2021 and 2024 can ignore basic game mechanics. I repeat, ignore basic game mechanics. It's like playing against Nurse all the time when you get lagging netcode combined with "lingering hitboxes", "hugtechs" aka bugs, random lagspikes, the list goes on. Honestly, I'd pay to play against Billy, Pig, Bubba, Wraith, Slinger, Oni, Myers, Huntress, Artist, Spirit even Trickster. Not the overwhelming amount of Weskers, Blights and now Draculas (as Dracula is the epitome of shit game design - a mixed bag of overtuned "underwhelming" skills - a literal moneygrab)

[@ruincanwalk]

let’s play dbd my friend

[@jamestercool4412]

"Imagine if every match had 4 good survivors trying to win how annoying that'd be" yeah its the same, going against a killer running 4 slowdowns is boring. It's why most survivors are going next and why no one plays against skull merchant. To win as killer run pain res + pop + grim with noed. If you can't 3k most matches that is honestly a skill issue as that's all you'll need to win most games.

[@protophileXD]

@jamestercool4412 the problem is that #1 most killers (as in playable killers) probably couldn't consistently because their power is bad or bad on many maps and #2 you could probably win consistently (as far as soloq goes) with one exhaustion perk. Not gonna disagree with you on the fact that's it horrible to go against especially in soloq but that's rarer than a similar situation for killer.

[@kattkatt6961]

and as a killer running 4 slow downs is boring. Yet any time you bring a "fun build", life sucks. Its because whichever side chooses to be more of a dick wins the game. 4 slowdown blight is the king of the game. Yet that same build on Trapper, is a joke because trapper is a joke. and again, if the killer is running a standard mix build of slowdown + tracking + chase. Yet they face a 4 stack of loser survivor sweats. They're getting a 1k at best. You're just mistaking cuck sided gameplay for killer sided gameplay.

[@ultamatejoker8282]

I might get flamed for saying this but I have near 100% win rate as merchant and one of my main tactics is just using 3 semi indoor maps offerings that take advantage of skull merchants undectable status she gives herself from drones as opposed to getting bad maps like Garden of joy or at the very least competing against another survivors map offering. I know map offerings are frowned upon but I don't view it as badly on killers that have decent amount going against them. Like if a killer like Hillbilly gets put on Lerys or if a stealth killer gets put on ormond similar to what you said in the video a survivor is less likely to hate a map than a killer would.

[@ganthc]

I think the game is designed to be slightly killer sided, and it is. One major reason is that the killer is capable of removing opponents from the game. It's why tunneling is such a strong strat for killers starting out. You remove a player and now it's a 3v1. It's why camping is a strong strat for killers starting out, they get easy hooks for trade when others come to rescue (or they just choose to hard tunnel the unhooked survivor). This hook trade strat is strong when you have pain res, or if you have pop goes the weasel and can go kick a gen right after. That said, sure if you go against a 4 man strong SWF, your odds of winning go down, because they are on comms and can relay info. There is no balancing around that, and yes, you will lose. But that is no different than a squad of survivors that match up against a p100 killer. The odds are they are all dying. A lot of that is just skill. You got beat by better players. They know the maps and loops, they know pathing, they are just really good. And that's fine...on either side...you are not going to win every game. You threw out a pretty dubious claim that you only win 20% of your games if the squad is competent. I find that hard to believe, and I don't see stats backing that up either, both at lower and higher MMR. I watch streams of both killers and survivors. I don't see killers only winning 20% of their games. The real issue then is if you are only winning (3-4K) 55-60% of your games, do you think that is survivor sided? Because on the other side of the coin, if you are a survivor, and you got hard tunneled out at 5 gens, but 2-3 of the others got out, do you feel like you won as a survivor, only getting 3-5k points? Should the game be balanced around how that survivor feels? Or by actual stats in the game?

[@protophileXD]

I've answered all these points in other comments and honestly I'm quite burnt out at this point but I will say that if we balanced by stats alone nurse would be getting quite a few buffs to say the least.

[@kattkatt6961]

if you camp a survivor. 3 gens get done by any competent team. If that survivor runs kindred, well now everyone else knows that hook is a troll play. Now if we add the anti camp changes, that survivor can kobe at a few seconds left of stage 1 and waste away all the time to end the game by getting all the gens done. Again, 1 non selfish perk and 3 people escape every camping match. You can also avoid the trade by doing a double dive bomb. Its just silly to hear "camping then tunneling is effective". Its really not. If you go against survivors with 2 brain cells between the 4 and just a single team based perk, you effectively give up 5 gens for 1 hook state maybe 2. Then semi competent body blocking = funny win unless you run NOED which is just a stupid perk for killers. Now also consider if this survivor has half a braincell to use for basic looping, easy minute for first chase AT LEAST. like you are giving up at minimum 2 minutes of time to camp to guarantee 1 kill. Like I can't even continue. By camping you're giving up 5 minutes during which you're losing the game against even the most barely competent survivors. Its boring for everybody. And yeah you should get a bonus to blood points based on how many total survivors get out not just your personal escape. That would be a nice change to encourage better altrusim and healthier game play overall. Because now survivors aren't just ME ME ME, and might take the super useful team based perks that lead to killers having a kill rate of 35%. Source: Hens, won't link it because I will get my comment deleted, but you can find it, its fairly entertaining and interesting.

[@ganthc]

@@kattkatt6961 Sure, optimum plays by both sides will help get a win. If a killer is awesome at chase, then he gets quick downs and aura perks help lead to the next survivor. Same with survivors, who can double up and get a gen done in 53s even without great skill checks, gen perks, or toolboxes. For certain killers, that can be rought if two gens pop in the first minute, because you were setting traps, checking on your hex, or just trying to find someone. However, we know that optimum play isn't always happening. Some are opening a chest, some are not finding gens to work on, some are cleansing a totem...and with Lethal Pursuer a meta perk, some are already in chase within the first 10s. Killers like to act like they only face Seal Team Six SWFs for the majority of their games. I really want to see the evidence for this. I watch streamers like Tru3, or One Pump Willie and they destroy opponents easily most of the time. Sure there are some games they lose, but once again, that is to be expected. Neither side wins every game. Also, the camping I am mentioning is not face camping. It's easy proxy camping. Killers can place a survivor on a hook in a 3 gen arrangement, and make sure that they have the place on lockdown. If someone is altruistic and gets the unhook, the killer goes back quickly and gets either the rescuer or the hooked survivor. If that hook was a Pain Res, easy value. With maps getting smaller and tiles becoming unsafe (have you seen the new Corn maps???), that kind of setup is not difficult. Btw, I am not totally against Killers getting better QOL changes. I think Killers should have their own HUD to show what debuffs survivors in chase have. If they have Exposed, Hinder, Blind, the killer should see that in the HUD. I am actually glad killers get hooks respawned. It was a massive issue for Scourge Hook builds. I think double up times for gens are too fast. Gens getting done in 53s without buffs is rough. that should be more like 72-75s for 2 on a gen, and 53s if 3 are on a gen. I also wasn't a fan of gen regression perks getting nerfed. They were fine...the real issue has always been gen placement, especially with maps getting tinier, with weaker tiles.

[@theDontiilev]

I agree with everything except one thing. Vecna is actually kinda trash. There are two techniques you can use if you have good ping that render Mage Hand useless, at best an 80/20. Even with poor ping, Flight of the Damned is almost useless against experienced survivors, and Fly cannot be used to go through windows or god pallets. Just stand on the pallet or window when he starts the animation. I'm pretty experienced with him since I've played Vecna exclusively since release. Let me tell you, going against three or four survivors who know all of this is an insta-loss unless you're a god at M1 killer gameplay. If I were to guess, I'd say I still have a 70% win rate, which I also have with all killers. What is kind of frustrating is the hopelessness. There's nothing you can do except M1 gameplay if they know what's up. The same sentiment going against full meta blight. If the killer understands pressure and macro, in most maps... You're done.

[@dontboyr]

‏‪3:35‬‏ isnt dead dog killer sided? Like everytime i get this map as killer i dont even try and win its just a very small map

[@unhallowed_soil-5620]

Leatherface is not weak you did him dirty😢

[@protophileXD]

@unhallowed_soil-5620 I love Bubba but he feels absolutely useless against good players.

[@joemomma9903]

The a red umber that 4 incompetent players is awful the fact that 4 comoentent players can destroy a competent killer is horrible in mk1 there was an infinite that was hard to do does it mean it should stay or be removed.

[@foogin8222]

I play both but I feel like it’s honestly the most balanced the games been for a bit, even in the 4 man out games it’s cus I just sucked and went for funny shots as Billy I don’t even get mad when getting smoked because I do the same when I play survivor I just play for fun

[@protophileXD]

You're probably a much happier person than I am but like I said I was only talking about trying your best to win yk?

[@kevinsyz1201]

SWF ruin the game. They think they're so cool tbagging after every pallet stun or every flashlight and then stay at the end of exit game when they escape

[@DhampirMatt]

I've drawn the same conclusion, but I think it's for different reasons than the ones you listed. Still, good video, dude! 🤔💙👏

[@protophileXD]

Ty, what is your reasoning I'd love to hear it!

[@DhampirMatt]

@@protophileXD I'll probably make a whole video about it, but, to boil it down, I think it's just due to business and numbers because of the game's structure! 💪🧠🤓

[@protophileXD]

@DhampirMatt as in they need to keep it survivor sided because that's where more players are?

[@justricky_0135]

It's very boring and annoying that at high mmr you can't literally do anything to counter them...just genrush and 0 skill

[@noizusagi6901]

bro. its statically proven that killers win 60-70 percent of their matches. Regardless of how you feel about survivors killers still kill more in percentage.

[@protophileXD]

@noizusagi6901 3 reasons for that: Most players are not very good at the game and at the lower level it can be very killer sided because Noone knows what's going on Matchmaking doesn't pair good surviors with other good surviors The stat doesn't account for things like players who dc, are afk, or kill themselves on hook

[@johnwin7088]

*says hex perks are too boring* *runs 3 slowdown perks* Its stupid to say that the game should be balanced around not every player being good. They don't play the game as much and they don't buy as many things as people who take the game more seriously. I would compare it to tf2's mvm mode. Sure causal players can play it but the mode will never be balanced around them. They don't play the mode very much and they don't buy tickets. The mode is more geared to people who know what they are doing because those are the people that will actually be able to beat the harder maps for better rewords because they deserve better rewards then those who don't take it seriously. If one guy isn't lifting his weight then that makes it worse for everyone else who have to try harder. The same principle applies to dbd. There really isn't room for you to have fun when your teammates are trying to actually win. The game has no way of knowing who's just playing for fun and who's using a meme build for a youtube video. In my eyes, the game has to rightfully assume that the group of 4 survivors are trying their best to escape. I̶ d̶o̶n̶'t̶ a̶g̶r̶e̶e̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ s̶a̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ l̶o̶w̶ t̶i̶e̶r̶ k̶i̶l̶l̶e̶r̶s̶ c̶a̶m̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ w̶a̶s̶ e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ a̶ g̶o̶o̶d̶ t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶, t̶h̶a̶t̶'s̶ s̶u̶c̶h̶ a̶ b̶a̶d̶ t̶a̶k̶e̶. T̶h̶a̶t̶ w̶a̶s̶ a̶n̶d̶ w̶i̶l̶l̶ f̶o̶r̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ b̶e̶ e̶x̶t̶r̶e̶m̶e̶l̶y̶ b̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ a̶n̶d̶ u̶n̶f̶u̶n̶.

[@protophileXD]

@johnwin7088 that part was written weirdly my mistake, i meant killer perks as a whole are boring. it shouldn't be balanced around players being bad, bad players should be matched with other bad players and gradually get better.

[@protophileXD]

Also I meant that low tier killers had the option to use "cheap" strats if the competition was just too much for the killer/build they're using.

[@johnwin7088]

​@@protophileXD They probably need to be boring to some extent. Like in the video, you are running pop and pain res because they are strong perks. I'm not saying perks are not allowed be fun but without practical use, well they just end up like Insidious. Sometimes having boring perks is ok if they do their job well enough.

[@muhamadkhan8424]

Hi, I have watched your video back to back multiple times and I have to disagree with many of the statements you say about dead by daylight being survivor-sidded. Firstly I will agree that killers aren’t made with equal powers and abilities however just because some killers are weaker than others still doesn't mean you can’t use good builds or add-ons along with actually playing the killer themself well, Ie: Knowing when to slug, hook. Drop chase, don’t take chases, break pallets, etc. I will also agree that some maps aren’t well for certain killers like hillbilly on indoor maps but at the same time, it makes it harder for survivors to know where objectives are as well as resources if their not running windows of opportunity, but then again hillbilly has a high skill ceiling so even if you’re forced into playing on an indoor map as long as you play decently you’ll be fine at catching survivors with curbs, 50/50s, mind games and reads. You also mention how low-tier killers get hurt because of “Broken survivor perks,” However low tier killer mains go up against low-tier survivors that mainly don’t run “Broken survivor perks,” and even if they do dbd is mainly a skill-oriented game and that is what low tier survivors lack. You also mention that survivors have “op,” strategies that they can do to slam killers but that goes both ways. Think about it like this if every survivor runs adrenaline, DS, Unbreakable, and Windows with septic agent med kits. killer too can run Pain res, Corrupt intervention, deadlock, and many other gen defense perks to buy killers valuable time to slam survivors. If that isn’t enough killers can hold three-gen setups, tunnel, camp, ignore survivor rules, and other strategies to win, since most killers in DBD are anti-loop It makes winning as killer not something that shouldn’t be treated as impossible because of “Various rng related variables that make the killer lose without loading into the game.” In my opinion dead by daylight isn’t killer sidded or survivor sidded it is sidded on which team wants to win more. I Like how you mentioned that camping and tunneling have gotten nerfed to the ground but in reality, camping and tunneling are quite strong if you play it correctly, especially in Low tier lobbies. ” Survivors that know when to do objectives or loop killers for long enough wins about 80% of the time against a killer of similar skill, and It's not even close,” Is just a joke in my opinion because honestly, you make yourself sound like a “Washed up, salty killer main.” Thanks for reading this (That’s if you ever do) and I’d like to know what you’d have to say about this.

[@Stranzua]

The skill gap between the worst players and the best players is so massive that it's impossible to balance this game. As a new player in 2024 with about 200+ hours, I find the game more annoying than fun. There are just too many matches that are a complete waste of time. A lot of people go AFK, kill themselves instantly, and refuse to do gens. The terror radius is incredibly inconsistent. Impossible skill check doctor is stupid. Ultra turn rate Billy is stupid. Insta-Mori Myers is stupid. Blight's infinite super speed is stupid. Invisible trap Trapper is stupid. Spirit is stupid. Silent bell wraith is stupid. The clown's enormous bottle AOE is stupid. The killers hearing every little whimper or footstep is stupid. In my opinion, the best killers to go against are the killers you can make miss, the killers who don't instantly end chases, and the killers who can't instantly teleport or run across the map. Killers like Nemesis, Wesker, Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster, Plague, Dredge, Vecna, Knight, Pyramid Head, etc.

[@Leon_S._Kennedy]

You cant even win anymore this is why i face camp with bubba to ruin 1 survivor day

[@boiiiiiii5741]

Yep same why bother stressing out trying to kill 1 survivor when u can just relax and make survivor suffer after all killers role is to make survivor suffer one way or the other.

[@kffacxfA7G4]

So you ruin a survivor's day, causing them to be salty and then bring the most broken items, which will then ruin the day of a killer. Don't do this, you are just as bad as them, and you are making it worse. This is not the solution. Also, I win about half my games as a killer without ever camping or tunneling, so if you're not winning, you should switch things up a little and find a new strategy (not camping).

[@Korpse_Klaunz]

Yeah. No, the game is, as much it doesn’t feel like it, has been getting fairly better at balancing both sides evenly now, since it was released, at release there was no entity blocking, you were out in one hook, there was no bleeding out, end game timer, you could get grabbed out of hatch by a killer mid animation, 7-Blink Nurse existed, Insta blind beamers. Most long-standing dbd creators lived through this era and is why we confidently say this state of dbd is the most balanced it’s been, In all honesty, this feels like it was rushed without doing a massive amount of research into entire lifespan of the game, you can’t discredit the opinions of creators who might have been in this game since day 1, or even from Beta, which a few I know are, without backtracking Dead by Daylight’s Balance History. But hey I’m just someone who’s played the game for 5 years and earning a paycheck from it for 3 so what do I know lol

[@protophileXD]

@Korpse_Klaunz I literally said that it's in the best state it's ever been, did you watch the video? 💀

[@Korpse_Klaunz]

@@protophileXD if you said that, then my bad. Where exactly if you don’t mind?? Subtitles would be helpful Af in the future, I have tinnitus, and aswell being ND, ADHD/tism so spoken words to me get lost in my internal static unless there’s subtitles sometimes and especially when I go full rant-mode like I did, and I apologize for that lol, the title and initial opening was probably what stuck when I ranted like I did, that’s on me 🫡

[@protophileXD]

​@Korpse_Klaunz at 8:05 you're good I have similar issues I get it.

[@Korpse_Klaunz]

@@protophileXD OMFG yep- THATS WHERE I MESSED UP LOL “in all honestly, the game IS IN, the best state balance wise” I head ‘IS’NT’ not IS IN, 😂 Auditory dyslexia cucks me everytime. Dropping a sub for my unwarranted Order 66 on you undeservingly lol 🤝🫡

[@Wizardbeard91]

Ok you brought up dead dawg youve earned my sub fuck that map

[@owenjude1362]

No it’s not lol td completely based on who your playing with, I’m a survivor main and I don’t think either side is broken, l escape less then I die and get still have lots of fun

[@a.y4852]

My guy you can definitely get popular keep improving editing skills and content!

[@NoxBox2990]

WHY AM I GETTING PRO SURVIVORS IN A ASH 4 LOBBY 🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬

[@MightyJabroni]

Because your monthly rank has nothing to do with MMR. It is a compelete non-factor.

[@JacobSmith462]

Source: Trust me bro. Kill rates are 60% or higher for most of the cast. If truly balanced and equal is a 2k every game, or 4ks as often as 0ks, then 50% is the balance point. Bhvr says 60% is their goal because the killer should feel threatening. Well: they are. The fact of the matter is the game is killer sided by default and it only starts to be survivor sided with comms. Of course, every game is completely different because of perks and maps and items and RNG, but the stats speak for themselves.

[@protophileXD]

@JacobSmith462 As I said in another reply notice how much of the top tier killers are noobstompers and nurse is at the bottom? It's because most players don't take the game seriously/are new. Those stats don't apply here.

[@JacobSmith462]

@@protophileXD if most players don't take the game seriously, then why should I take what you say seriously? What you're trying to argue is not well supported and apparently only applies if the proper conditions are met 🤷‍♂️

[@zyxel27]

@@JacobSmith462The stats reflect that most of the playerbase is bad at the game. Yes, 4 experienced survivors in one match isn’t happening in every game, but when it does, most killers have absolutely no chance at winning. A low percentage of people being good doesn’t mean it’s ok to put the killer player in that position.

[@protophileXD]

@JacobSmith462 bro how does the amount of new players have to do with my argument? Am I missing somthing?

[@jnever9768]

but they don't take into account the sheer number of times survivors DC or kill themselves on the hook. just one survivor doing this throws the match. i mainly play killer and basically 1/3rd of all my matches have someone DC or kill themselves on hook. i'm not playing toxic or SM or anything. this skews the data.

[@Madmax-fq9go]

Bro not have good with hatchet but I also have bad aim, still good points though

[@protophileXD]

@@Madmax-fq9go ty mr caveman

[@TheSaviorReko]

Goat video

[@MightyJabroni]

If DBD were so survivor sided, then why are win streaks only a thing on the killer side? There is vitually not a single killer in the game, who hasn't a documented winning streak of 3ks or 4ks of at least 50 in a row. And many killers, by now, go well beyond that. Some are in the hundreds and freaking Blight notoriously won 1.947 games in a row. Even the freaking Trapper, by many seen as the weakest killer in the game, boasts a record win streak of 148 wins. And these are just the win streaks, that are documented by content creators. If peak sweat yields these kinds of results on the killer side, show me SWFs matching these results, by getting at least 3 men out for over a hundred or even substantially more games. You can't! Because these win streaks do not exist on the survivor side. At least nowhere near to the extent that they do on the killer side. So how can that be? If this game is so intrinsically survivor sided, why does peak sweat (which is the scenario that you guys CONSTANTLY argue about) only manifest these results on the killer side? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[@protophileXD]

@@MightyJabroni ok: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4HIf3uJqLmlbM0si=CtB0gszd_5ru0Kc0

[@MightyJabroni]

@@protophileXD Great, you found the one substantial SWF win streak that I also know of. But you realize that Hens and his buddies are top of the shelf comp players, who communicate much better than your average SWF, were once seen as one of the most accomplished comp teams in the world and are used to play under conditions, far more rigid, than pub matches. How does that compare to a host of streaks, extending to every killer, often done by content creators, who don't even do comp DBD? Shouldn't the reality of "top level" DBD yield very different outcomes if it were as cut and dry as you guys make it out to be? If the game were oh-so survivor sided, how on Earth would winning streaks of well over a hundred wins, even on Trapper, even be remotely possible? Instead it is this one loss, that eventually ends these streaks, that you guys seem to internalize and treat as the be all, end all of balancing DBD.

[@protophileXD]

@MightyJabroni dbd as a whole should not be looked at from this lense in the first place. Win streaks mean absolutely nothing, as you said and I said in the video some killers are better than others so people like trapper would struggle anything past 100 but blight or nurse wouldn't find it hard to get to 1k Wins if you were a comp player (as I also said blight and nurse are absolutely busted and should be changed but they're only 2 killers out of 30 so not the majority). You have to understand that the only thing that can stop a top tier player is another absolute top tier player which is less than .5% of the entire player base. Point is though obviously stacked comp swfs are gonna get rolled by a nurse every 100 games because she's op but nurse shouldn't reflect every other killer

[@MightyJabroni]

​@@protophileXD Yeah, you do realize that said win streak of Hens and Co. was snatched by a Trickster. Not a Blight or a Nurse. So there is that. There are also killers, who you categorized as pretty damn mid in the above video, who have far greater win streaks than Hens and his squad, like Cenobite, Hag or freaking Onryo (over 400 wins!). And that is only according to stats, that are over a year old, where many of these streaks were still actively ongoing .... I just find it weird to insist on this notion of what allegedly happens, when all sides play optimal, yet when we look at the expression of just that, this lopsided reality of survivors simply dominating all the time is nowhere to be found. Instead, streaks (which mandate sweating by default) are FAR more pronounced on the killer side of the equation. Both, in scope and in prevalence. But then you guys turn around: "Oh, streaks don't matter." Yet, assuming peak-sweat is what your entire notion about survivors being this, that and the other hinges upon. It seems, that sweaty gameplay/streaks only are worth consideration, when the shoe is on the desired foot ..... which is exactly what pisses me off about these silly "power role" discussions. Their entire perception is colored heavily by petty tribalism ... and little else.

[@protophileXD]

@MightyJabroni I never said surviors are always better and I said I have played more survior than killer. It just doesn't really matter to me that people who have played this game for almost a decade can win over 100 matches straight, like yeah I fuckin hope so. These winstreaks don't have any weight in a discussion of balance and that along with stats were not included for a reason.

[@vilao394]

Re-do the nerf on Ultimate Weapon, it was so goood

[@A_MTR]

Bro's voice is majestic

[@pinkgoergefloyd8340]

Not really

[@PiXELMaske]

Can you answer this 3 problem ? 1- solo gaming experience Playing with 3 random people is already a mathematically difficult endeavor. Especially if 2 of them are troll friends, your gaming experience is completely up to their discretion. 2- Aura reading perks of killers Aura reading perks are out of control and have no weaknesses. For example; The distortion perk is made in 3 stacks and you have to wait next to the killer for a certain period of time. For faket killers, gene blasting or aura reading abilities are completely free. open a closet and see everyone, kick the gens and see everyone. a cooldown of just 30 seconds means almost nothing 3- very heavy addons, Staying lame is nonsense in itself, not every perk and addon is designed for every killer here, for example, anti camp perks do not work for flying killers like nurses. or Bubba addons, which can loop almost endlessly, completely destroy the gaming experience. Gens repair times increased to 90 seconds, self and teammate healing times extended.... All of these were done purely to satisfy the egos of the killers. If you pay attention, the killers are having fun with you in the game. They can tunnel as they wish, because at best it will take you a long, long time to complete 2 or 3 gens. A 20% loss with a single perk will also extend this period..

[@boiiiiiii5741]

Tell me you are a survivor main who is still struggling to win without tell me you are survivor main.

[@AxisChurchDevotee]

1. That's a problem with games in general unfortunately. Most of the player base likely will suck. 2. Time isn't on the killers side and wasting valuable time, especially for weaker killers isn't something they can do. Distortion is busted too since it gives tokens for free with no real counter to it. Survivors shouldn't be able to easily counter killer powers/perks like that with just a single perk. 3. Add ons in general aren't fun. Having add ons that feel mandatory is god awful and there's broken garbage for survivors to abuse easily.

[@PiXELMaske]

@@AxisChurchDevotee just play 1 surv game. then u got that

[@love4lush]

@@boiiiiiii5741why is this y’all’s excuse every time to make it seem like y’all are the only ones being neglected in this shitty game holy shit it’s getting old 😭

[@kffacxfA7G4]

A killer basically holds the entire game in their hands. The killer decides the outcome to a much larger degree than the survivors. I have to sweat more when I play as a killer, but that's just how the game is. Playing as killer vs as survivor are two different games. I generally find myself winning at least 50% of games both as survivor and as killer. I've had some really bad killer games where I got wrecked by the survivors, but I always feel like I could've done something differently to win. It's my own fault if I lose. All perks and playstyles have a counter. I think that the issue is that games you lose make a much bigger impact in your mind. You remember the bad games where the other team messed you up more than the games you absolutely killed it. That's why survivor mains say the game is killer sided, and killer mains say the game is surv sided. I play both, although mostly killer now because solo queue survivor is absolute garbage, but I genuinely feel like it's very well balanced, and if I ever feel like I'm doing bad/on a losing streak, I just switch out some of my perks or try a new killer. I used to play Ghostface but I lost a lot because I didn't get his power, and I suck at chases, but then started playing Legion with some slowdown and I win a lot. Oh, and I generally feel like I'm a nice killer, I avoid tunneling, I never camp (except the late game), and I avoid perks that I hate facing as a survivor.

[@DarkAngel-jo8ix]

Even the weakest killer (twins) has over a sixty percent kill rate what constitutes a win? 4K? 3K? Some killer players don’t get a 4K because someone escapes from hatch and the my cry, the game isn’t weighted too much one way or the other but everyone wants the 4K. STATISTICALLY you cannot say the game is survivor sided, you could reasonably say “High MMR games where both sides play optimally typically result in 2 or less kills” but most of the people complaining about this AREN’T at the top and playing optimally. People just need to accept that you win some, and you lose some. Should we not expect about a 50% escape rate for the game to be considered “balanced”? If not, what rate should we expect and why?

[@protophileXD]

@DarkAngel-jo8ix first of I'd love to hear why you think twins is the worst killer because they're nowhere close. As I have said time and time again those stats might as well be useless to us. You wanna know why nurse is statistically the worse killer? It's because most players don't know what they're doing.

[@kattkatt6961]

@@DarkAngel-jo8ix twins suck, but they also have 3 people who play them. They're also not the worst killer. They just encourage slugging because they're poorly designed.

[@DarkAngel-jo8ix]

@@protophileXD at one point they had the lowest kill rate, but it seems the most recent breakdown I can find from February 15th, doctor is actually the statistically worst still, with a 51% kill rate, and this same article shows that even high MMR SWFs only have a 48% escape rate. You can’t simply say “statistics are useless” when they are the most clear objective metric we have. Survivors tend to say the game is killer sided, killers tend to say the game is survivor sided, and the objective data shows it’s not really favorable to either at the top level, and only slightly leans towards killer at lower levels (but yeah, it is called DEAD by daylight). I’d like to know what you consider a “win” for the killer, since it’s not as binary as survivor, or if you consider a “win” for survivor something other than surviving.

[@DarkAngel-jo8ix]

@@kattkatt6961 yeah my bad seems like most recently my boy the doc is at the bottom

[@lostmnt]

The reason why most youtubers & streamers support the idea that its more or less on the middle, is because statisticaly speaking that is true (Performance wise, even at "High MMR"), and why they talk about it being so unbalanced at the same time refers to the crazy combos and perks that you can choose to do and offer little to no counter. BHVR may not call this a party game, but when you can temper even with luck and RNG and crazy combos off addons/perks to this insane degree its downright delusional to take this game seriously. "High level" or """Comp"""" gameplay has many rules and restrictions on addons, perk combos and even items for BOTH sides, witch does NOT represent a normal match whatsoever. Remember to have fun boys, and if you want to compete and have an excuse for defeat no matter if you played killer or surv, i recommend to just play something else.

[@-rockmusiclover-]

Good points my guy, here's a sub

[@KTrain-cl1vs]

Tell me you don’t main solo q without telling me

[@protophileXD]

@KTrain-cl1vs I literally said that I do in the video, atleast watch something before you leave a dumb comment 💀

[@KTrain-cl1vs]

@@protophileXD see that? It’s my point going over your head

[@protophileXD]

@@KTrain-cl1vs how

[@roryfarrugia7717]

bad players do not mean the game is killer sided. If all survivors in your games were like comp players (yourself included) you would lose like once in a hundred games.

[@Boooobooooo]

i argree with everything but bubba in low tier? hes def mid tier

[@cuppy1199]

He has very poor map control, and his chase is lack luster compared to other killer nowadays. So yes hes low tier, mid c at best

[@Boooobooooo]

@@cuppy1199 the great thing is what you said is very opinionated but okay

[@cuppy1199]

@@Boooobooooo it factually isnt. He has no mobility, his chase is difficult to use and countered by smart survivors.

[@ShamerGamerJM]

@@Boooobooooo what's opinionated about him having bad map control? He has basically no mobility and his chase basically just devolves into pre drop and if you have an exhaustion perk you're easily fine for a lot longer

[@protophileXD]

@@cuppy1199 not to mention bad hit boxes and the chainsaw running out of gas glitch that somehow happens in 1/5 matches.

[@SymmetryXZ]

I personally disagree. DBD has countless factors that combine to create any given match. These factors are present in both sides and are impossible to determine the exact level in which they affect the outcome of the match. Due to this complexity I believe statistics are our best outlook on the games overall health. One of the most concerning stats from the 2024 Feb Developer update was that 4 man SWFS achieved only a 40% escape rate while killers complain about their advantage. As a survivor main that has played high levels of both sides, I have found that I have a higher win rate on killer even though I have less hours (Note: I also get sweaty swfs that I might lose against but I still win MOST of the time against survivors with thousands more hours than me). In response to the Video: I don't believe the personal assumption at 5:00 is a good way to approach the question. You came to the conclusion from your own opinion / experience with the game and although its good to value your opinion, its by no means a okay point to make in a video calling it 'unarguable' when and several fundamental points are based on your individual conclusion (Personally with my experience I have found the killer wins more in that of a similar situation). The map tier list is also extremely subjective causing tangents and linked reasoning to become much weaker. Stating that NO maps are killer favoured is not a good starting point as it creates a whole separate conversation in of itself. Sure you can say certain maps favour killers, however, saying all maps are survivor sided or balanced isn't correct. Referencing the overall statistics 'strong' survivor maps can equate to just as much as the rest being weak survivor maps and unbalanced - you see DBD is MOSTLY balanced and whether the game is truly Survivor sided or truly killer sided, it would be by a small margin. If the maps were as survivor sided as you present them to be then results would definitely reflect that. Overall in themselves many maps seem surv sided however other factors clearly cancel that out otherwise kills/per game would be insane. My Conclusion: In final I believe the best outcome is that a 500 hundred hour killer player vs 4 x 500 hour survivor players with roughly equal perks should result in a (roughly) 55% chance of killer win (3, or 4k) in soloQ but a 45% in SWF. Remember this is all my opinion and I would love to discuss if you disagree / want to share your thoughts.

[@protophileXD]

As I've talked with people in my comments I have changed my opinion on a couple things. The average match is probably fairly balanced for the wrong reasons. As i did say in my video nothing matters more (for survivor) than skill. When you have 4 "good" survivors they will roll most killers and it's math at that point, if everyone can loop for a minimum of 30 seconds then the gens will be done before anyone has died. As for statistics I genuinely don't think they should be taken seriously, they do not take dc's, giving up, and many others factors into account. If we look at nothing but data it will tell us that nurse is the worst killer in the game and do you wanna know why? It's because a majority of players are not good at this game and that's why most matches are balenced which is horrible game design

[@protophileXD]

And as for maps even if you disagree with my sentiment of no killer sided maps you have to admit that its still a majority (in favor for survivor) and killers have nothing near as strong as badham or the game. (Not to mention killer powers which more often than not can make a perfectly balanced map horrible to play)

[@SymmetryXZ]

​@@protophileXD I think its a good thing that they don't count DCs. The whole match is invalid if someone DCs therefore better representing most matches. As for the looping, that 30 second argument is used a lot but many people struggle to realise how unrealistic this is. In low MMR killers will be ran for longer on average but gen efficiency will be poor so it *roughly* balances, however in high MMR killers know how to strategically take good chases in areas where it can deny people of gens or force hook trades (Wont mention perks as there is BS on both side). Good utilisation of killer power means you can often get easy injures and force resets creating pressure, not to mention slugging and snowballing from good killer positioning and decision making. As for the maps there is a large amounts of disparity, but it is difficult to say whether a map is really killer or survivor sided due to many factors. You need to see maps from both sides as RPD, Midwitch and some cold wind variants all are super rough on survivor and should NOT be considered balanced especially when stating its worse for a few killers when in reality it puts ALL survivors at a disadvantage. The point I'm trying to make is that there isn't really a 'baseline map' and then again you have come to the subjective conclusion that all maps lie above this transparent baseline. Although its true some maps are stronger than others Drawing an average of all the maps will create a better result. Also after all these years if most of the maps were that bad the stats should reflect that while also suggesting DBD to make a 'Killer sided Map'

[@BlackBajeebus]

The mans not wrong on anything

[@Boooobooooo]

only one killer sided map i know of is the newest one

[@muffpuff5632]

midwich? haddonfield?

[@protophileXD]

the vecna one?

[@protophileXD]

​@muffpuff5632 midwich is worse for more killers than it is good for them, also haddonfield is still annoying because of window spawns.

[@Knuffeldraak]

@@protophileXD probably because the two exit gates are ABSURDLY close to each other with little variation possible.

[@protophileXD]

@Knuffeldraak if survivors get to that point they most likely won already

[@winterwolf1250]

Too much of "I dont like this thing so i am just going to ignore it." Like discounting dead dawg saloon for being killer sided just cause you find it annoying. This is mostly an opinion piece. Im more inclined to believe you are a mad killer main. I was a killer main at launch. Gods awful times but nowadays i feel it is fairly balanced with new perks always coming in either busted or useless.

[@protophileXD]

Annoying because it's busted? Not sure why you think im a mad killer main.

[@winterwolf1250]

@@protophileXD You leave out a lot of important information. You say a lot of things like everyone believes it, but you don't show statistics, polls, graphs, etc. Hard data. Heck ya didn't even show your list of killers and survivors prestiges to show which side you favor more.

[@protophileXD]

@winterwolf1250 there's only so much I can find/use. What data do you think I should have used?

[@winterwolf1250]

​@@protophileXD In all fairness it isn't really my job to do the research and find the data. You are the one who made the video after all. Any sort of data to back up any of your points. Hard numbers. Go through the community, use polls and other forms of data collection and then put it together into a video. I've seen quite a few other DBD youtubers that will run the numbers and stats, could even ask them where they get their numbers from.

[@protophileXD]

@winterwolf1250 I don't think data matters as much of it is recorded by top tier players who are definitely not average and the released data is irrelevant due to the average player being new. My points were objective like half the killers being not great and such.

[@Zakon673]

I have no strong opinion about the video, since it's correct but also most survivors aren't really good or coordinated enough to show why survivor is an OP role. I'm more just commenting because the comment section depresses me at how much this game's community seems to villify people who are just trying to win at the video game.

[@Exhalted1]

It's a party game, not a esports so doesn't matter if its killer sided or survivor sided just have fun with your friends, and yeah the esports scene for dbd has failed already...cus its a party game

[@Candyghost272]

It’s killer sided 😭😂bro….randoms, 2 gens left, perks that give away Your location every time you sneeze, teammates that don’t do gens, pay to win, and perks so debuffed they’re only good for holding my broken window open😅 butt 🍑hey I didn’t pay 30 bucks for a cheap Canadian pc game with 2010 Freddy Krueger

[@love4lush]

no disrespect but wtf 😭😭

[@protophileXD]

@@love4lush ?