Dealing With All Those Treasures In Commander

[@Logic-cg7qy]

It's an interesting question about Corrosion. As an ex-Judge, I'd rule it does destroy any artifact 0 or less. The oracle wording is pretty clear: "destroy each artifact with mana value less than or equal to the number of rust counters on it."

[@shrouded8797]

Fangren Marauder is a great option for green. Any artifact leaving the battlefield gets you five life.

[@jdsharp226]

One card that I would also recommend off of the March of the Machine method is Titania's Song; which is green version with some extra upside/hatebearing of also shuts-off all abilities of noncreature artifacts as well as the effect last throught the turn they remove it.

[@joelrandall2348]

It doesn't get nearly enough love especially considering that green has way better ramp options than magna rocks, and could every other cool down on ramp

[@FelippeARJ]

Really glad to see that you mention Titania's Song. Easily one of my favorite arts in MTG (both arts). And the card is so good. Yesterday my table was in shock after I cast Titania's Song and right after cast a Vanquish the Horde. And I win the game. Its just an amzing card. Amazing

[@Controlqueen31]

Amazing card. And with only one green symbol in it's cmc is splashable in many decks.

[@tpatrick1349]

So glad to see magnetic mine and haunting wind! I recently mentioned them in the discord and was baffled they don’t see more play. Haunting wind has such great art.

[@connorl0204]

I like how eye of singularity, since it creates a trigger every for each thing that enters, hoses every burst creation of tokens completely rather than leaving the one behind like it was intended to do.

[@oxpolitik]

Last Laugh, Disciple of the Vault, Ancient Runes...these are my favorite treasure hosers.

[@olivercharles5581]

I run Hammer Mage in my Vae Victis deck as a way to deal with artifacts ~ make X zero, discard, (which I'm trying to do anyway,) and voila!

[@michaelsaldana4103]

Gorilla Shaman is another one I like to play and will be card advantage 90% of the time due to being a creature and drawing removal as well as destroying cheepy artifacts. Combine with Liquid metal coating to help your opponent out with his land count.

[@andrewamann2821]

You spelled "Mycosynth Lattice" wrong... That said, if you're looking for fun tricks to ditch lands, and you're in Gruul or Jund, might I introduce you to the most hateful of land destruction spells, Splinter. Shaman breaks converted lands for 1 mana. Splinter strips them out of the deck, entirely.

[@tquenched3210]

I like energy flux. Hits me too, but the reaction from the table is worth it for me

[@farty555]

I love how March of the Machines kills mana crypt and mix diamond and mox opal etc

[@dreddbolt]

Corrosion does require rust counters being applied to destroy artifacts of mana value 1 or 0. No counters, no destruction. Also, proliferation is pretty nice. I run Titania's Song, Viridian Revel, and Magnetic Mine in my Gluntch (the Bestower) politics deck. The general is group hug. The deck is not.

[@tylerbach9067]

Love these videos that address specific things in magic

[@johanandersson8252]

I need those for Axelrod Gunnarson

[@tovarvonbrandt7157]

Nothing beats good ol null rod and stony silence. Stony silence even has an artwork point the middle finger.

[@ice9ify]

Corrosion is pretty allright if you have some proliferation or similar effects

[@Jordan808Hawaii]

Corrosion: If you read the Oracle Text it's clear that the only artifacts that are being destroyed in that way are the ones with the rust counters on them. Still good though Haunting Wind: Same... SHOULD work in my opinion but sadly the Oracle Text is updated to say that there is an exception for the "TAP" symbol so, it won't work with mana abilities of artifacts.

[@PBlot1]

I don't think the oracle text specifies that only artifacts with 1+ rust counters are to be destroyed. It says: "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a rust counter on each artifact target opponent controls. Then destroy each artifact with mana value less than or equal to the number of rust counters on it. Artifacts destroyed this way can’t be regenerated. When Corrosion leaves the battlefield, remove all rust counters from all permanents." So Corrosion's controller puts rust counters on target opponent's artifacts, then compares the number of rust counters on each artifact (not specifically that opponent's, not specifically those artifacts that just received rust counters) with that artifact's mana value. A zero-cost artifact with no rust counters on it has "mana value less than or equal to the number of rust counters on it."

[@Jordan808Hawaii]

@@PBlot1 "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a rust counter on each artifact target opponent controls. Then destroy each artifact with mana value less than or equal to the number of rust counters on it." The word "it" I think is referencing each artifact, so if an artifact has no rust counters on it, or it's mana value is whatever, it's not affected by the above text.

[@Jordan808Hawaii]

Hmm... that's a tough one - I think it could go either way. Let's get a judge in here! :)

[@norrock1]

You actually missed one. Its the green March Of The Machines, Titania's Song.

[@kaiseremotion854]

"Only puts rust counters on artifacts your opponents control, but destroys all artifacts with rust counters on them, even your own. When it leaves the battlefield, it removes all rust counters, not just those that happen to be on artifacts." it would destroy others, but im unsure if it hits things with zero rust counters

[@andrewamann2821]

I'm pretty sure it just breaks all the 0-drop toys automatically, since it doesn't inherently care about the rust counters, themselves, it just cares that the number of counters on the artifact is equal to, or greater than, the number of rust counters on it. I might have to look into this as tech for my Piru deck, alongside Genesis Chamber... Though I would need to find a good way to manage the age counters.

[@adarklight505]

But it does care about the rust counters "If the number of rust counters on an artifact" so it only checks the things with rust counters on them. It would ignore things without rust counters.

[@andrewamann2821]

@@adarklight505 0 is still a number of rust counters, my dude, and it's checking to see if the number of rust counters is greater than or equal to. Like I said, it doesn't care about the rust counters, themselves, it cares about the number of rust counters when compared against the mana value of each artifact it checks. Corrosion and Solemnity basically blasts all zero-drop artifacts off of the table on every turn rotation, in perpetuity. If it cared about the presence of the rust counters, and not just the count, it would specify "for each artifact with a rust counter on it."

[@hahahafunniness]

This ^

[@BoorisBoons]

The closest ruling I could find to answer this says, "Only puts rust counters on artifacts your opponents control, but destroys all artifacts with rust counters on them, even your own. When it leaves the battlefield, it removes all rust counters, not just those that happen to be on artifacts." Granted, this is still inclusive. After reading the Oracle text, I would side with Demo's interpretation. Zero rust counters is less than or equal to a treasure token's cost.

[@JPA55MOR3]

I also have a solution. "Serulf the realm eater." Your welcome

[@daviddodd6955]

I enjoy playing Fangren Marauder from Mirroden Beseiged. Every time an artifact is put into a graveyard you may gain 5 life.

[@thelunchlady8276]

Heh, add one of those "Whenever you gain life, opponent loses life" cards and you got yourself a fun time!

[@derHexenhammer]

Corrosion requires a rust counter. But it will destroy other players Artifacts if they have rust counters.

[@mitchellbruderlin8621]

can you lin the ruling that supports that claim?

[@MrXaoras]

source?

[@haroldmilles3894]

Have to have a rust counter to be effected by this trigger. One rust counter on an artifact. If it's zero Mana it is destroyed.

[@johnbryan1862]

Read the updated phrasing for Corrosion. It does destroy tokens that way.

[@kal54321]

I tried to find out when Corrosion was errata'd but i couldn't find it. I think the gatherer needs an updated ruling on that. I suspect that it was errata'd long before all of the artifact tokens came about and the original intent did not include them. As the errata is written, it would destroy a treasure even without a rust counter, but i suspect that was not the original intention. It was most likely only meant to destroy artifacts with rust counters on them.

[@petermason7221]

Two more kinda hate cards are Powerleech and Fangren Marauder. Gain a shitton of life for all the treasures (and other artifacts) being tapped or going to the graveyard!

[@BAAWAKnight]

Magnetic Mine is my favorite--especially when facing a Breya player or people who flicker Dockside.

[@andrewamann2821]

I'd say i feel attacked, but i already have tech installed to deal with that... Triple-digit life gain, alongside Lattice/Vandalblast or just blinking Consulate Crackdown. That said, Magnetic Mine is actually some pretty solid tech for decks that arent doing anything interesting with the massed token generation.

[@kaeton7921]

In blue decks I use echoing truth. It's a versatile card. Super effective against tokens but at the same time never a dead card in other matches

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I’m pretty sure corrosion would destroy all zero mana artifacts because it doesn’t specify only the player you choose

[@Chimeraiam]

I have no reasoning for it, but I can't imagine Corrosion works the way you're describing. Would be sweet though. My only rationale for doubting it is it seems too good to be true lol

[@johnbryan1862]

Read the updated phrasing. He's right.

[@sonork]

Displacement Wave is my go to for blue token removal these days. If you play higher mana stuff it can also be pretty one sided.

[@Brutusque]

Titania's Song, Manglehorn...

[@SebastianBergenwall]

Energy flux

[@andrewamann2821]

In a cruel twist of irony, Energy Flux gets blown out to someone ballsy enough to drop a Mycosynth Lattice into that board state...

[@OniTreefolk]

Vein Ripper + March of the Machines could be fun

[@E.F.W.]

Eye of singularity is a triggered effect, meaning you can respond. Still not bad.

[@naonna1]

manglehorn / collector ouphe

[@simonchi5372]

Hmm tempered steel + March of the machine treasure token beatdown.

[@mooninites755]

Fangren Marauder is another great option. Gain 5 life for each treasure sac'd

[@grampaw5605]

Corrosion "counts" cards that have rust counters and "doesn't see" cards that don't. Sorry Charlie, no tuna.

[@QuicksilverSG]

Treasure tokens are worse than all other artifact tokens combined. Even Blood tokens require you to pay 1 and discard a card before sacrificing it to draw a card, yielding zero card advantage. Treasure tokens require ZERO COST to sacrifice at any time, and that sacrifice cannot be interrupted. That means their owner can always sacrifice them for mana, in response to your futile attempts to destroy or exile them. WotC's in far too deep to consider banning Treasure tokens, but they could easily issue errata on their use, for example, restricting their sacrifice for mana to Sorcery speed. That would make it possible to destroy them before they can be sacrificed.

[@rorschach1]

I thought you could respond to March of the machine as it’s cast before it enters the battlefield….when it’s on the stack?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

you can always respond to cast yes. but you can't respond once it's already in play

[@27777BigRedBarn]

I want to hate out Treasures so bad but decks already have so many options for cards and unless, let me emphasize UNLESS, the card has a specific synergy with the deck I.e. creature in a creature deck or enchantment in enchantress etc, I can’t see myself justifying a spot in the deck, especially if I’m not tutoring for it. I feel the same way about graveyard hate. I would rather just focus down what I know my deck can’t handle. I see them printing more options on lands. Then it will become easier to slot into decks. Tap/sac a land to destroy all artifacts with mana value 1 or less. I dont know. Strip mine for artifacts.

[@Bstone410]

For Corrosion, only artifacts with rust counters get destroyed and only if the counters match or exceed that artifacts mana value

[@Merlewhitefire]

0 is a number, and that number is equal or greater than the mana value of a token (Which is 0) therefore a treasure token with 0 rust counters on it has a number of counters greater than or equal to its mana value

[@martinolsen7183]

March of the Machines totally wrecked me when i played Prosper a few years ago. Where would you put march of the Machines into though? Not just any blue deck right?

[@connorl0204]

1:28 bet WOTC feels silly printing that reminder text now that reconfigure is a thing that lets equipment thats a creature equip creatures lol

[@ManrielXiii]

Hello, my name is demooo

[@syctheofsymphogear4290]

me, who plays march in an artifact aristocraf deck

[@mikebott6940]

I'm old school, so I remember Maelstrom Pulse. But as an Ognis player, I shouldn't be giving such advice.

[@Lazydino59]

Pulse doesn’t work if the opponent sacrifices the artifact in response (so it is really bad for treasures unless you target a tapped one or your own), so it really isn’t a great way to deal with treasures

[@mikebott6940]

@@Lazydino59 That's true for Treasures. But since Murders at Karlov Manor and Morska came out, I've been seeing more Clues, and most of the time it's too expensive for their controller to activate more than 1 in response.

[@curtisrogers2721]

Collector Ouphe 🤌🏻

[@rquer7913]

Hot take: Food/Treasure/Clue/blood tokens should not be "Artifacts", but instead their own cathegory of "expendables" or something alike

[@Merlewhitefire]

I disagree. They're already way too powerful without making them immune to common interaction.

[@rquer7913]

@@Merlewhitefire however, they boost Artifact decks. In their own cathegory, I think they would be way less powerful...

[@chrisgebben2043]

oh by the way meltdown will become budget again hopefully, because that is being reprinted in modern horizons 3 and to time travel around 2 years in the past to one of your previous videos about treasure hate kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKrdgIqfjMaJqqs quite a few cards overlap with this but there's others mentioned not in this one that seem pretty good "Last laugh" "Culling Ritual" "Hammer Mage" (the spellshaper for "Meltdown" so a repeatable version) "Energy Flux" (not mentioned but "Kataki, War's Wage" for a creature and white version) "Crafty Cutpurse" and i can throw in more (honorable mentions is all the "Stoney silence"/"Collector Ouphe" effects since by default it makes them useless.) "Titania's song" - Its a green version of "March of the machines" but throws in a "Humility" effect for those artifacts. "Disciple of the Vault" - another member of the use the ability is punished affects "Charismatic Conqueror" - a fairly new one that makes you tokens if they don't tap the treasure for nonmana "Pain Distributor" - bad news is group hug but good news same thing as "Sardian avenger" "Structural Assault" - you mentioned this one before but not as good as you thought but definitely still handy in the right situations "Ancient Runes" - they pretty much take damage for the number of treasures they have

[@Izelor]

Treasures tokens and co. are the worst thing Magic RnD has created since the introduction of Planeswalkers.

[@Shimatzu95]

With many of those it seems token decks are catching strays for the crimes treasures commited.

[@azzazzello1368]

You missed the best one. Probably because it is an old card. Similar to March of Machines but in Green with some fun upside Titania's Song

[@karlgrylls2406]

funny enough, Meltdown will be reprinted in MH3

[@nathanpavolko5861]

That's why I love playing Vazi Keen Negotiator. It's both a treasure deck for you but punishes opponents for using treasures. Plus I still like to see people do their thing so it can help enable someone who is behind.