Dear Christians: Let's talk about MARRIED SEX.🫶

[@TiffanyDawn]

Also the concerned mother in me feels the need to point out that when Natalie was asking for food during the video, she had just eaten half an hour ago and really wanted a popsicle. Don’t worry, we aren’t starving our children while we make videos!! 😂😂😂🙈🙈

[@bkang]

😂😂

[@RA-pb4gl]

These are the types of conversations and topics we need to have in Christian circles!

[@TiffanyDawn]

I agree!!❤️❤️

[@kevindavis4709]

Yup and they don’t realize the Bible talks about these topics.

[@amanda_shearer_daye]

YES! Yes! Yes! Thank you so much for being so open and honest! My husband and I have been married 4 and a half years and I can relate to everything you said Tiffany! As Christian women we need to start being open and honest so that the next generation can learn that sex is not something to be ashamed of or all about your husbands needs! So empowering to her you both speak! Thank you! 💛

[@haley15234]

I’ve loved your videos so much over the years, from dating to now being married! I think this is a great message for young men & ladies to hear! So often we hear these twisted ideas and then internalize them as adults. A good partner should never pressure you to have sex with them! ❤

[@TiffanyDawn]

Yes exactly!!! So well said! And congratulations on your marriage!!!😍😍❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@oliviar.8439]

The new filming set-up is so pretty! Very professional, but inviting at the same time. 🤗

[@TiffanyDawn]

Thank you!! That means so much! It was James idea and I love it 😍😍

[@theladyamalthea]

I love you guys!! This type of insight into sex took me TWENTY YEARS of marriage to figure out, because I clung to those false beliefs from the Church so tightly.

[@FairlightChristianna1Cor318]

It's not selfish for sure. It's an investment into your marriage. A good husband enjoys it so much more as well when his wife is fully enjoying and engaged in it as well. So, it might feel selfish for a time, but it's also a huge gift to both of you in the long wrong. Thank you so much for talking about this! I definitely agree, this is excellent info.

[@TiffanyDawn]

That’s so well said! I totally agree! Thank you for sharing this and for your encouragement!❤️❤️

[@FairlightChristianna1Cor318]

@@TiffanyDawn We waited till marriage, but I personally felt the wedding night pressure, not from my husband, but from the general message from culture. We read The Great Sex Rescue after about a year of marriage and that helped me a lot. I'm all about abstinence until marriage, but agree that we need to abolish any wedding night sex or even honeymoon sex. And make it about having sex after marriage when you're good and ready and have had time to enjoy each phase leading up to it fully. For some, that could be that night, (but if you've never made out before, unlikely) for others that might take a month or so. And everyone needs to know this is an option and that is okay! We should get to enjoy the whole process and not feel rushed into it just because we've said our vows.

[@AmberDennis001]

@@TiffanyDawn why did Jesus make me too ugly for sex

[@lmmbchampion]

Great advice!! This is very important because although marriage is more than just sex- sex is what connects a husband and wife. It’s the thing that the two have together and should be worked on to be healthy. I’m so happy that as newly empty nesters, my husband and I feel for connected than ever- and even more in love!

[@TiffanyDawn]

That’s so beautiful how you and your husband feel more connected than ever in this season! That speaks volumes to the investment you’ve made in your relationship over the years! That’s what I want for me and James too❤️❤️

[@AmberDennis001]

@@TiffanyDawn how can I make sure my first time will be great? I hope to be a wife like you

[@kennethfok]

Sex is a great investment to a marriage for as long as husband and wife are enjoying it willingly. For the man, you may have the desire for sex, but communicate with your wife and come to an agreement on the frequency of sex. For the woman, do not have sex just because you must have sex. But have sex because you want to procreate with your husband and because you want to please him on your own accord. If there’s anything hindering you from wanting to have sex with your husband, commit it to God and pray for the chains to be broken. As long as your husband has loved you just as how Christ loved the church, it would also be good to submit to him accordingly. For men, sex is a biological need because that is what is required for conception to take place to keep a species going. Imagine a world where both men and women totally have no desire for sex? We would have been extinct by now. Sex is beautifully created by God and married couples should try their very best to enjoy it because it is a good gift from above.

[@rscampbell3]

Your videos always leave me feeling so empowered 🥰

[@ruth5227]

I LOVE THE HONESTY!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Thank you so much for opening about this. It’s such an important topic that is always brushed under the rug in the Christian community. Thank you!

[@lw7915]

Thank you for sharing so openly! Single Christian women desiring marriage need to hear this.

[@spokenwordpoetries]

Great video! Thank you for discussing this. I'm single, but this information and deconstruction of "biblical" marriage fallacies is an important conversation to have. Also, you look so beautiful!

[@ruth_anne]

Love this! ❤ So good to see a couple speaking the truth.

[@carson2646]

I’m not speaking for the other husbands but I don’t want to sleep with a wife who isn’t interested in me. My wife and I have been married for 22 years and we’ve had this issue. When I start noticing I’m the only one ever initiating I stop doing it. That lasted a month once

[@elizabethsantos183]

God bless you guys! Thank you for taking the time to give healthy advice that isn’t usually talked about. Love it

[@susanwright6168]

I'm always so happy to see a new video from you guys! I hope life is treating you well 💜

[@HPTFan]

James is right about the power he mentioned. I'm not a dominant person. I have to ask before an answer. I'll do the same thing if I'm married. Good video, you two.

[@bengorillachristiandude6438]

I think the two of y'all addressed this matter perfectly. I'm not married, but I'm thinking a lot on this stuff as I'm waiting to meet my future wife. Purity culture spews a lot of harmful, legalistic ideologies, and this idea that sex is only something the woman does for her husband whenever he wants is dangerous because the woman is supposed to enjoy sex too. Not only do I want to have lots of sex with my wife when I get married, but I want her to be somebody who also desires me in that way. As a man, I feel that some things I can do to make a difference is ease her in, make sure she's comfortable, and (most importantly) be intentional about figuring out where and how she likes to be pleasured. It seems a lot of men don't do those things, and not only does that seem to be at least half the reason why there is so much tension between couples in the marriage bed, but I can also see how that enables this belief that sex is only for the man's pleasure whenever he wants it. Also, as someone who's struggled with sexual sin (not on a physical level with women, but in other ways that I'm not proud of), I can tell you firsthand that you can't depend on someone else to keep those temptations and sinful desires at bay. It is human nature for both men and women to notice attractive people of the opposite sex, even if they're married. However, sex with your spouse is not a cure for sexual sin. Particularly with things like porn addiction, which I have come to learn is often times a symptom of unhealed brokenness. Even then, it takes proactive measures to change those behaviors. As tough at it's been being single all these years (I am 27 now), I realize it's been a HUGE advantage for me, because I'm able to learn all these things before I meet my future wife and prepare myself in advance.

[@TiffanyDawn]

Wow, I LOVED reading this. Thank you for sharing these thoughts - they are beautiful and powerful!!

[@bengorillachristiandude6438]

@TiffanyDawn Anytime. Glad my words could be of help and blessing 🙏🏼

[@GoGoSachiko]

Communication is definitely important. I remember an outside perspective and it stuck with me, if you can’t talk about sex with your partner then there’s something wrong/not the person you should be with. Before marriage and somewhat early on while dating, we laid out a few things. First that we’d wait till marriage and we did talk about things we might like to try but we were adamant that we’d be each others first and only. It was a struggle in the early months of marriage but after a lot of communication it got better.

[@sophiamarie1712]

Tank you for being so open! It really changed my view on this topic

[@TheEnte008]

Thanks for sharing. I love when u 2 make a video together! To see bith sides is so helpful

[@sarapinkandpurple]

Yes I’m so thankful Sheila Gregoire is debunking these myths. It makes me glad now that I’m single and not married or been in a relationship yet. I’d rather be single than with someone who feels entitled to sex.

[@caroliinec]

really appreciate James saying it's actually NOT toxic to look after yourself and be sure you are comfortable. to call it "selfish" when really all we're doing is looking after our own comfort is toxic in itself. it's HEALTHY. it's NECESSARY. it's IMPORTANT. it is NOT selfish.calling it "selfish" is toxic. think about it, when guys look after themselves and their pleasure, is it labeled "selfish"? no! it's normalized pretty much, because it's healthy. it's essential to a healthy sex life. then why are we labelling it "selfish" when it comes to women's pleasure?? sure, encourage women to seek their pleasure, but call it what it truly is - healthy, essential, NOT selfish. Selfish has a negative undertone to it. The bible does not call us to be selfish, but to be loving. seeking our own pleasure in a healthy sex life IS loving, not selfish. this is why the toxic conversations in Christian communities never end. We end up killing one toxic idea by replacing it with another one. and was it wise to keep 9:19 in the video? or would it be more wise to keep it out? would it cause more harm to leave it in? or would it be more beneficial to your viewers to edit it out? was it said to truly help your audience? or was it an ego trip to keep feeding selfish pride and boast for a moment? what is your audience supposed to do with that information? what is your audience expected to do with that information? compare? use it as a standard for their own intimate life? is that an image you want to plant in your audience's mind? Something to consider. there's a fine line between being transparent and honest and being crass. tread wisely.

[@caityd2816]

It’s so normalised in our culture for women not to orgasm, especially in Christian circles, so I personally appreciate hearing Tiffany’s experience. I don’t think her intention was to boast or be crass - I’m a virgin and didn’t really think anything of it haha. The two perspectives about sex for women that I tend to hear are either memes that men are clueless about female anatomy and it’s impossible to orgasm, or women reclaiming their sexuality by being promiscuous and seeking their own pleasure above all. Neither of those are very helpful for me so I was honestly comforted by that part of this video. That’s just my pov though :)

[@kennethfok]

Before we talk about being selfish, we need to know that we are one with our spouse in marriage. Avoiding sex for a long time would not be good and it could do a lot of harm to a marriage. It’s not just about submission but marriage is a reflection of our relationship with God. A man has to love his wife just as how Christ love the church. And a woman submits to that love through intimacy with her husband. Sex is more than just about procreation or submission. It helps a man and a woman to form a strong bond together through the closeness of being intimately in love. God created sex to be a sacred and enjoyable act in a marriage. To be one with your spouse means the ability to not feel ashamed of being naked with your spouse and to view sex with your spouse as a necessary part of oneness in marriage. Communication is important and sex does not need to take place every day but on an agreed regular interval with your spouse.

[@MyMariej]

Wow he’s an amazing guy.

[@TiffanyDawn]

Agreed!! I’m so grateful for him!😭 And there are more guys like him! And hopefully we can start shifting perspectives so that more and more guys come to sex from a place of love rather than self centeredness 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@somethinggood9267]

When you say you had to learn your body, was your husband involved in that process or were you kind of doing things solo? Cuz I would think the husband would want to be instructed in what moves he can do that will help you

[@kevindavis4709]

My thing is? There’s more too marriage than sex. Yes sex is good but! If sex is all a couple has income and together your marriage will be in trouble in your elder years when you’re no longer able too have sex anymore due too health issues

[@TiffanyDawn]

That’s such a good point! I love how you’re looking at how the scenario would play out down the road. It’s easy to forget to do that!!

[@kevindavis4709]

@@TiffanyDawn I learned that from older couples over the years. And I found it’s easier too find sex than finding a committed soulmate to share life with. Honestly if I had it too do over again I would’ve waited till my wedding night. I made a vow too God not too have sex again until I get married.

[@brittneythompson2041]

Yes , I been saying the exact same thing. There’s more to marriage than just sex. Sex is not the only thing in marriage and not the most important. I feel like there are too many Christians that are imposing, especially when it comes to sex. Yes, it’s a wonderful gift from God, and why wouldn’t you want to enjoy such a beautiful gift, but what I’m saying is there are other ways to show your love to your partner too. Some would say to abstain from “full sex” is wrong, but what if there are some people who actually can’t have it due to health issues? And also some young married people may not be able to have it due to health issues but some Christians wanna beat people up for “not having it anyway” and say they’re “disobeying” lol.

[@kevindavis4709]

@@brittneythompson2041 exactly. Because I have seen older couples still in love on fire for each other even though they’re not able too have sex anymore. Sex is easy to find but finding someone too share life enjoying each other’s company and hobbies having things in common together is very hard to find.

[@brittneythompson2041]

@@kevindavis4709 yes lol, I do pray that the church of today wakes up and learns who the true Jesus is, not the one they are making up in their mind, twisting Bible verses out of its context. Toxic teachings is what’s really running people away from the church, it’s not necessarily “bc they don’t want to hear the truth” most people I believe want to hear the truth but in a way that is loving and helpful, not hurtful.

[@danaewilliams7871]

Love you guys and your advice!

[@debdobransky1246]

Thank you for making this video.

[@kaonoulu]

Great video!!! Thanks!!

[@brittneythompson2041]

Thank you so much. I thank God for people like you guys, y’all are not afraid to talk about this and y’all are talking about it with love and grace, not with shame and guilt. What I don’t like is that there are some Christians or Purity Culture that make sex a “duty/obligation” rather than a joy. And acting like the woman has to put of a front as if she’s to enjoy it when she really may not be. Sure, sex is a beautiful gift from God, why wouldn’t you want to enjoy such a precious gift? But what I’m saying is there was someone saying that if you’re not enjoying sex, then you’re “insulting God.” I don’t think that is necessarily true. What could be causing the person to not enjoy it could be bc of the bad teachings they believe about sex. Bad teachings like what you guys were talking about is what could cause resentment. Or how they are being treated. Sex in marriage should be done bc the person wants to do it, not because they “have to” or “supposed to”

[@kennethfok]

Very well said on your last point. Couples should be having sex because they enjoy it and want to do it. If either party does not want to have sex for a long time, then there is probably something in their relationship that needs to be addressed. It could be negative teachings from young where women are being taught that sex is dirty and shameful or it could simply be caused by hormonal changes due to stress, pregnancy or breastfeeding. It could also be because the woman does not feel loved enough by her husband. Communication is the key to resolving such issues and churches need to help clear all the misconception about having sex. Sex is an intimate gift created by God for enjoyment in a marriage. When the two become one in marriage, there is no more shame and sin in sex. Ultimately, the married couple shares a bed to sleep, they might even undress in front of each other (of course not within the sight of others), they engage in sexual intercourse both for their enjoyment and bonding as well as to procreate. Sex is not an obligation but just as a man showers love towards his wife, the wife should also respond by submitting to him. Let the whole act of love making be one of showing sacrificial love to one another.

[@taleahmiracle]

Thank you so much! Could you share more (either here or in the wedding talk series) about HOW to achieve orgasm as a woman? My husband and I are newlyweds and have been working on this together with no results. We can become discouraged and there are very few godly resources out there on this topic.

[@Bellafrikadella]

If you are in circles who have these kind of middle age believes (Shocked about the title tbh), you should really think about changing your environment..

[@actuary33]

There's this crazy food that ruins your sex life. Its called wedding cake lolll. Thank u! I'm here all week!

[@rosezimmerman3821]

Satan will do everything he can to get couples to have sex before marriage, and everything he can to prevent them from having sex after they marry.

[@somethinggood9267]

But they weren't having sex before marriage LOL

[@actuary33]

@@somethinggood9267 what barber got drunk n cut james hair? Yikes

[@aaronparmeter8329]

This forces the question...What then happens with a sexless marriage? A couple save themselves for marriage, have a couple years of sex, then wham! Physical problems with the woman combined with preexisting issues with the woman, and now there is no sex. Is THAT in our BIBLE?

[@bkang]

Maybe not specifically, but every passage regarding marriage talks about how important it is for a husband to love, honour and protect his wife, laying down his life for her and loving her as Christ loves the church, etc. I don’t think that kicking up a stink if sex becomes less frequent (or, as you say, for physical / psychological reasons, ceases altogether for a time) is really reflecting the heart of Christ, if you see what I mean? I would hope most people don’t get married just to have sex!! But because they see something in the heart of the other person that makes them deeply desire to journey through the rest of their lives together, no matter what 💖 Marriage is a partnership, a covenant and a commitment. To love honour and cherish one another, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, ‘til death parts us 💖 I would hope that if a man who truly loves and cherishes his wife finds himself in a situation where for whatever reason, she is unable to connect with him sexually, his overwhelming reaction would be compassion, seeking to understand what the problem is, and a desire to make it clear that his love for and commitment to her is not dependant upon how sexually available she is to him. As a woman, I have to say that being met with compassion in moments like this makes it far easier to journey through any issues, whereas being met with anger, frustration, pressure or coercion (none of which are Biblically endorsed behaviours) would be far more likely to cause me to retreat even further. Also we run into sticky territory when we begin to judge sexless marriages….this exempts people with certain disabilities preventing sex either fully or partially from finding a strong, passionate, lifelong connection with another person. I think that would be a travesty!! Just my thoughts on the subject, hope it helps….I’m sure Tiffany has far more useful and coherent thoughts herself!! 😂🙈💖

[@brittneythompson2041]

@@bkang that’s a lovely way to look at it. I’ll say this. There are Christians who take 1 Corinthians 7 3-5 completely out of context and leave off verses 1-2 and 6 to guilt trip people into sex. I don’t want to have sex bc I “ have to “or bc I’m “supposed to” or else I’m not a “good wife.” I want to have sex bc I want to have it and want to enjoy it. In verse 6, Paul literally said it’s a concession, not a command. Regarding "Do not deprive each other": This is not meant to be a command or a threat that ends in "so that Satan will not tempt your spouse" (Y’all having sex won’t fix it anyway, he could still lust after other women or look at porn). It is a "concession" Paul says (as in: "have sex if you must") so that you will not be tempted because of your lack of self-control. If you are not lacking in self-control as the Corinthians were, if you know that you will not face the temptation to look elsewhere (other than to your husband) for sex, then this is not a concern for you as it was for the Corinthians whom Paul was addressing. Paul's statement to "not deprive each other" rightly addresses the Corinthians' statement that began the passage: "It is good for man not to have sexual relations with a woman." Paul's answer is: "I'm not saying 'don't have sex'- I'm saying 'don't have sex with just anyone' - but if you don't want to have sex and you have self-control, then it's OK not to have sex. Some may disagree but this is it I believe that so many Christians fail to realize. Some may say, what if he don’t have self control? What if I’m being told that if I don’t have sex with my husband that it’s natural for him to be tempted to look elsewhere for sex? The answer to that is: You are not responsible for your husband’s temptation - nor are you the solution to it. In fact, your husband’s temptation is the symptom of a bigger problem: His heart isn’t in pursuit of God. And the solution to that is not a “sex fix” - the solution is for him to surrender control and humble himself before God. Like I said, they could still cheat, or watch porn even if y’all do it 5 times a day. It looks like to me that so many Christians are too focused on sex and making a huge deal out of it that they forget that some married couples CANNOT even have sex, and act as if that’s the ONLY way to love your spouse. Yes, I do believe sex is a beautiful thing, who wouldn’t enjoy something so beautiful, and it’s a beautiful way to express your love to your partner, and a way for married couples to get creative, but sex isn’t really possible for ALL couples. Also, some Christians say sex in marriage and having children is a “command” . To the ones who say that, I say What about married couples who end up marrying at a late age, one may be 67 and the other 70. One may beyond their child bearing stage. Would that “command” apply to them? And why would God make something a command universally if he knows everyone may not be able to fulfill it ? I believe when God gives a command, every believer would be able to fulfill it. And it seems way less likely that you could have sex Or children at THAT age bc of physical changes. Even some young married couples can’t have sex/children either. Also I think a Christian man and woman who are married are free in Christ to decide if they want to have sex/Children or not. If they choose not to, that doesn’t make them any less married and I don’t think they have to have those things to have a successful marriage. Even if you do have those things, a marriage can still fall. A married couple can still reflect Christ and the church even if they don’t have children or sex. Even Jesus didn’t have sex or children. I do believe God have made married couples those beautiful gifts (sex and babies) to enjoy while here on earth and you can have fun with it and have fun producing beautiful offspring too 😍😁. Just my thoughts ❤. I don’t know ik you agree or not but if you don’t, that’s okay. God bless ❤🙏🏾!

[@brittneythompson2041]

@@bkang also he was adressing sexual immorality in the church of Corinth. Many people have taken this passage to mean that a wife’s body is not her own but that she must allow her husband to do with her body whatever he wishes - and that she is not to deprive her husband of sex. But that is not what this passage is getting at - not at all! Look at what Paul is addressing here: Sexual immorality in the Corinthian church. There were so many people in Corinth (even Christians) who were doing whatever they wanted whenever they wanted with whomever they wanted that Paul is telling them: "Stop doing that - you don’t have authority to do whatever you want with anyone you want to do it with - you must only give yourself to your husband." He wasn’t saying that they had to have sex nor was he saying NOT TO have sex. That’s how I see it ❤❤! Again sex is beautiful but if anyone is going to teach on it, they need to teach on it in a way that is helpful, not hurtful. 💓

[@bkang]

@@brittneythompson2041 Yes, I agree with all of the above! I believe you have just said exactly what I said only more in depth 🥰 Have you come across Sheila Grégoire? I think you would LOVE her teaching if so 😘💖

[@brittneythompson2041]

@@bkang yes, she has good messages on this topic 🥰💓

[@GalaxiaTokyo]

What I don't understand about the view that somehow the Bible is saying that it's all about doing things that everyone enjoys, is where does sacrifice fit into all of this? Because then, for example, something like "If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles" should also be considered horrible advice, some internalized abuse or something. Or like, most people don't really enjoy visiting the sick or the prisoners, or giving charity when you are poor, or spending time with family members who are difficult, etc., and nevertheless is very clear that one has a duty to force onself to be good to others. Or divorce; it's also clear that maybe unless there is a major reason of abuse or adultery, you shouldn't divorce your spouse no matter how much you dislike them and don't enjoy spending time with them. That should also be considered madness according to your principle. So what worries me is that it seems to me that the framework you and other people are putting this issue in is simply more of a feminist modern understanding and not one that comes out purely from Christian values. But it's difficult to argue the subject because people think this is a matter of either you are a sex slave or is fine to be selfish and should never put effort in loving the other when you don't feel like it.

[@KatieAJ]

I get what you're saying, but We're talking about sex. And nobody should feel pressured to have it, especially if they're sick or tired or in pain. The most important commandment is to love God and love others. Is it loving for a man to use abuse his God given authority to force his wife into having sex? That requires sacrifice. It is the husband's job to love and sacrifice for the woman, however, most of the time it is women sacrificing to the men because of power imbalance. When Jesus mentioned the one mile, he was talking really generally. You can apply it to anything. Yes we should give to the poor. Yes we should visit prisons. Even if we dont there's still grace because He died for us. That is all we need for salvation. Just as God does not force us to love, we should not force each other to engage in sexual acts. He made it for the enjoyment of BOTH parties. No one said anything about it being ok to be selfish. It's about being respectful and loving of each other. I recommend that you listen to the video again, mate.

[@GalaxiaTokyo]

@@KatieAJ I would argue, first of all, that 1 Cor 7 says "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband." How isn't that some sort of "pressure"? If there's a duty, then there's a moral imperative. How do you reconcile that verse to your idea that sex should be absolutely separated from any pressure? Second, I think the misunderstanding here is thinking that "you should do this type of thing" implies that it is fine for other people to force you to do it whenever, but that's really not what anyone is saying. That's like arguing that if I say you should give to the poor that means that I think any poor person has the right to come to your house and take whatever they want and you can't refuse. And therefore we should stop promoting the principle of giving to the needy because it will be misinterpreted as a license for exploitation. On the contrary, what the Bible is saying is merely that you should do it out of your own heart, freely, while using your judgement to ensure your own dignity, prevent the other from sinning against you, doing what's good for the other instead of just validating worldly impulses, etc. I think Cor 7 implies that you should try to please your spouse out of love, so if you don't actually feel love but hurt or hopelessness then there's no meaning in doing it. What worries me is that out fear of people misinterpreting misinterpretations, we end up simply avoiding the passages and treat them as if they don't actually have any practical significance, so that a Christian marriage is in practice indistinguishable from an unbelieving one.

[@courtneylewis2415]

Firstly, you are correct. There are many verses in The Bible that appear to be positive about sacrifice but can be weaponized to force people to be in emotionally abusive relationships or friendships where they sacrifice themselves to the point of genuine danger. There is more nuanced answer to it than explicitly sacrificing for everyone else all the time or being totally selfish and it's about ridiculous to imply that it's one or the other with no middle ground. Secondly the point of this viewpoint is not to undo The Bible but recognise that The Bible was written in an explicitly misogynistic lens, and has been used to justify sexual abuse in marriages for generations. This narrative from Tiffany focuses on switching the focus to safety and pleasure for both parties Instead of just the man. Of course there is sacrifice involved; there is a sacrifice to give each other space to heal in there is sacrifice to letting the other person focus on themselves while they are learning. Sacrifice should not solely focus on what the woman must give up for a man but can also focus on the other way around. Also, some things in life are just meant to be enjoyed and don't have to be so tied up in morality and sacrifice. Sex and other pleasures are allowed to be there just for fun in some spaces and they don't have to be much more than that all the time. It's an exhausting way to live if you're constantly thinking or acting in a way where you MUST be sacrificing for others at all times. Lastly, this is just the start of their story and no one is saying that sacrifice will not be involved later in the future. They're not saying there is no importance in focusing on the other person, they are simply talking about removing the stigma and potential abuse and danger and pain caused in relationships where those verses are taken literally to the point of not letting the female have any say or any interest in sex. Unlearning the idea that sacrifice is akin to shat is functionally an abusive relationship is not in an liberal idea. Jesus's entire narrative was about freedom and liberation, and removing constraints that forced minorities into places of pain and danger, even those built in the Old Testament. The overall arc of The Bible is clearly about love and freedom and safety, and not that one should always be prioritised over another just because they are a man or because they are rich, for example. Taking into account the entire arc of The Bible and not just exclusive versus about sex or sacrifice gives you the image that while sacrifice is, of course a component of it, the more important things are actually safety and enjoyment for both parties. Also sacrifice where it is done out of guilt or shame or fear is not actually sacrifice. I would be appalled or devastated if someone sacrificed something for me which meant they were afraid or in pain or uncomfortable and felt they had to do it out of obligation because the big book said so, and not because they genuinely loved me and wanted to give something a value to me. Once a person has killed the dangerous and conservative ideals about sex in what they owe to their partner, they can then choose to sacrifice whatever and wherever they want for the other but for it to be safe, it needs to come from a place of love once this healing has been completed.

[@GalaxiaTokyo]

@@courtneylewis2415 I think we more or less agree on what is good and bad in a marriage. But this is my contention: if there are bad ideas to be countered, and good ideas to be promoted, how do you decide in what combination you should discuss them? Because it seems you are saying we should focus entirely on the first ones until everyone has overcome that (which of course will be never; there will always be someone acting that way). But why? What's the problem with doing both things, for example? Or why even though the vast majority of people is talking non-stop about the first, even mentioning the second is somehow horrible and abusive? What about the majority of marriages that don't experience those problems and which will be deprived of support to better improve their holiness due to the complete focus on broken relationships on the brink of rape? I don't understand why you assume that such unilateral approach would bring more results. I think it can even get paranoic, in fear of a toxic idea which isn't even quite there in a given group or audience. It reminds me of the "sex isn't dirty" thing, where everywhere you look at a Christian discussion about sex they have to reassure you that sex isn't actually bad and you shouldn't feel shame for having sexual desires like those false teachers tell you, etc. And the thing is, I've never in my entire life heard anyone say that sex is bad, from either parent, teacher, priest, Christian books or youtube videos or strangers or anywhere from any denomination or even any other religion whatsoever. Maybe because I don't belong to some particular American evangelical demographic, all I ever hear are rebutals to an idea I have never seen anyone defend. And I know that's an experience many people also have, and it's bothersome because it ends up turning the discourse into repeating things everyone already knows whithout actually saying anything new. And even when you see people that have actually somehow been traumatized by it, they are people who already know it's incorrect and only want more reassurance about it. Why can't we talk about stuff whithout having to turn it into a discussion of unreasonable misinterpretations it may produce in some potential conflicted audience member in an exceptional situation? It amounts to saying that preventing a few bad consequences is worth much more than causing many good consequences. Defending that is akin to proving that being very liberal with divorce in order to prevent cases of abuse is preferable to the family unity which would result from promoting marriage. Is first of all a false dichotomy, and second I don't think that holds up in the statistics.

[@courtneylewis2415]

@@GalaxiaTokyo I mean focus on the first one in an individual marriage. I don't have wait until TIffany has overcome her trauma until I sacrifice things for my husband, but she needs to heal before she can give. This is obviously a case by case basis thing and the idea we are sharing is that healing is an important part of a journey with a parter in this respect. I think you hugely misunderstand the statistics around this. I would encourage reading Sheila Wray Gregoire's books and resources to undestand the magnitude of these beliefs and how many Christian woman have painful or sad sex lives. I disagree entirely that 'the majority' of people focus entirely on the first one. You are a man so have a very different experience to me as you have not grown up under the thumb of misogyny and abuse being normalised in the church. Almost every single Christian woman I know has had to unpack beliefs or hurts in this regard and it's honestly really hurtful to hear people dismiss the importance of this because they don't believe it's true. It's just extremely dissmissive of trauma to say that an individual choosing to focus on healing before sacrifice is wrong. Again, neither Tiffany nor I have suggested that EVERYONE needs to be healed before ANYONE can sacrifice. We are talking about individual relationships where there IS trauma and pain and toxic beliefs around sex, and healing needs to happen there. If you genuinely feel like letting someone heal before they sacrifice is extreme or selfish or bad or hurtful in some way, that is a belief that I cannot agree with or argue. The reason we are having these conversations is because there are LITERALLY thousands of years to unpack here. You might be sick of hearing it, but women have been sick of being oppressed for generations. It is a priviledge to be sick of these conversations. If you think you're sick of hearing women talk about their pain, imagine how sick of experiencing that pain. I'm not going to continue replying to this because you are honestly being really dismissive and gaslighting women right now and your comments are quite hurtful. Those beliefs affect tens of thousands or more of women, and many women don't even realise that the beliefs affect them. If you really want to understand these conversations, you need to understand the experiences of women who have been hurt by these. I don't live in America either, and yet every single woman in my life is affected by purity culture in one way or another. Your experience does NOT define what conversations should or shouldn't happen. These conversations are about women's pain and women's healing and your opinion holds little weight. I have taken the time to explain to you that your beliefs are damaging and that this conversation is here to focus on women's healing. If you are uninterested in that, that is your perrogative but this is not the space for you.

[@emiistanley]

Greetings from Argentina 🥳🥰

[@allthingskanoo5974]

Hi 🥰❤👋

[@TiffanyDawn]

🤗🤗🤗

[@chloeflores8043]

So basically what the church is preaching is rape/ sexual assault. Rape is not only physically forcing a woman to have sex against her will, but also mentally manipulating her to have sex with that person because she is scared or feels obliged to do so. The amount of toxic messages preached in the church around sex are disturbing. Some even wrote books ( ehemm Hillsong Church pastor's wife, he still cheated though). Women should never feel obliged to have sex. And don't be scared, sex is never gonna hold a man back from cheating even if you have sex with your spouse 5 tines in a day. It is fully his responsibility to stay loyal.

[@brittneythompson2041]

Right, I agree with you. It’s so sad and yes it is disturbing the way the church is, about Sex in marriage. They be so focused on it and make such a huge deal out of it that they forget that there are some couples who CANNOT have sex (or children). They’ll use 1 Corinthians 7 3-5 completely out of context to guilt ppl into sex, and say if you don’t have sex, your “cheating” on your spouse or “you’re sinning.” I want to have sex, bc I want to have sex and I want to enjoy it, not because I have to do it or else I’m not a “good wife” or “good Christian” , And also they leave out verses 1-2 and verse 6. In verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 7, Paul literally said its a concession, not a “command.” Paul was addressing sexual immorality in the Corinthian Church. There were so many people in Corinth (even Christians) who were doing whatever they wanted whenever they wanted with whomever they wanted and it wasn’t right for them to do that. He wasn’t saying that they had to have sex nor was he saying not to have sex. Regarding "Do not deprive each other": it’s is not meant to be a command or a threat that ends in "so that Satan will not tempt your spouse." It is a "concession" Paul says (as in: "have sex if you must") so that you will not be tempted because of your lack of self-control. If you are not lacking in self-control as the Corinthians were, if you know that you will not face the temptation to look elsewhere (other than to your husband) for sex, then this is not a concern for you as it was for the Corinthians whom Paul was addressing. Paul's statement here to "not deprive each other" rightly addresses the Corinthians' statement that began the passage: "It is good for man not to have sexual relations with a woman." Paul's answer is: "I'm not saying 'don't have sex'- I'm saying 'don't have sex with just anyone' - but if you don't want to have sex and you have self-control, then it's OK not to have sex." Some may feel like what if my spouse don’t have self control? What if I’m being told that if I don’t have sex with my husband that it’s natural for him to be tempted to look elsewhere for sex? The thing is like you said at the end, it’s HIS responsibility to stay loyal. You aren’t the solution to the problem, even if y’all do have sex, that’s not going to stop him from lusting after other women or looking at porn. Also God saying, the 2 will become one flesh I believe is his way of saying he intends sex to be for marriage. I don’t think he’s saying it as a command, bc tbh, for some couples, sex is not possible, and why would he make something a command universally if he knows everyone can’t fulfill it ? I believe when God give a command universally, everyone would be empowered to fulfill it ❤. That’s just my thoughts.

[@TesterBoy]

Wow! You are very GOOFY. And it sounds you went to a GOOFY church! In fact, it sounds like the feminists really MESSED you up!

[@heatherluna5075]

Maybe that’s why in the Bible the man wasn’t allowed to go to war for a year so he could get to know his wife.🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍

[@carson2646]

I’m not speaking for the other husbands but I don’t want to sleep with a wife who isn’t interested in me. My wife and I have been married for 22 years and we’ve had this issue. When I start noticing I’m the only one ever initiating I stop doing it. That lasted a month once