Deathloop was Good Until It Wasn't

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So Deathloop was a pretty good time on launch and it won a healthy amount of awards this year at the Game Awards. However, after taking a break for the patches to deal with crashing and other stuff to get applied, I found myself with little to no will at all to pick the game back up.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:41 The disparity between critics and players on Deathloop
03:30 Deathloop is Arkane playing the hits
08:03 Even if by design, Deathloop's repetitiveness is doing it no favors
15:40 Is Deathloop a victim of the "curse of the immersive sim"?
17:37 semantics surrounding the term "immersive sim"
18:26 Deathloop is Prey: Mooncrash version 1.5
22:57 final thoughts
24:13 cat video: frisk is having a nap
26:00 DO IT! I DARE YOU FRISK!!!

[@CharlatanWonder]

Use my code CHARLATANWONDER to get $5 off your delicious, healthy Magic Spoon cereal by clicking this link: magicspoon.thld.co/charlatanwonder (Sponsored)

[@malazan6004]

What saddens me about Deathloop is it got so much attention while Prey barely sold and got middling reviews while it was a masterpiece.

[@Orange_Swirl]

Just like Bioshock's relationship with System Shock 2.... Yeah, I said it. Sue me.

[@Peremptor]

@@Orange_Swirl System Shock 2 wasn't nearly as approachable but yeah I agree. Also on Prey of course.

[@MJ-mu3kb]

@@Orange_Swirl I will never understand why people think Bioshock is an immersive sim. Its like saying Metro is an immersive sim.

[@robertnomok9750]

@@MJ-mu3kb Yeah, it was generic fps game with rpg elements and no penalty for death. I dont understand that kind of hype behind that series. If anything last game was an awful shooter game with no good qualities besides teleporting waifu.

[@DaxterKing]

The guy at Gamespot who gave Deathloop a 10 gave Prey a 6, lets me know never to take that individual seriously.

[@RomanQrr]

I think the biggest problem of Deathloop is that it's a roguelike without meaningful variation. When playing Mooncrash I was starting to feel that the things are starting to feel samey, but it had just enough for it's runtime. And Deathloop has it worse. The lack of the constant timer before enemies level up and the simulation just ends, and the lack of variation in what is happening in different zones each run just make it boring instead of selling you on the dream of being able to learn everything what is happening and then enact a perfect plan. I also feel that the invasion mechanics were set up to counteract that monotony, but honestly the only thing it succeeded in was preventing the perfect plan fantasy from ever being possible. You can't just know where every enemy is and where they will go because at any moment you can be jumped by the boss and will have to not only improvise, but also probably go loud and attract attention of the enemies in the area. I think adding something like a speedrun aspect to this game and having an actual timer with a script everyone follows unless disturbed would be better than what we got. Make it like 40 minute day with the one real chance to get everyone before 20 minute mark. So you have enough time to explore and test, but you also need to step up your game to win. And also maybe a good idea would be to have several ways you can actually accomplish your goal of killing everyone.

[@ABUBBA22]

Speedrunning mode sounds like it could be fun and it's weird how it isn't already in the game, or at least a leader board. Deathloop needed two things for it to be good. 1) Your absolutely right there should be more than one right answer to killing everyone and the game shouldn't hold your hand finding out that answer. I was hoping for action FPS hitman and got very disappointed when I had to do everything in a specific order. 2) Meaningfully use the loop gimmick by having enemies remember your tactics of the last loop and change behavior, gear, and the world to counter it. If you were hopping from roof to roof in one loop, then the next one there will be more rooftop patrols and barb wired ledges. Or if you use stealth slabs and sneak then they will put out more traps in sneak routs and anti slab tech. Run and gun? Next loop enemies will get entrenched with more makeshift cover and have heavy armor and fire power. Lots of headshots? Helmets. I know there's plot reason why they don't remember, but the game didn't encourage me change tactics or load out once I found one that is extremely efficient (upgraded nexus with a headshot from a silent smg is OP as hell)

[@pedrodesouza1993]

It's not a roguelike

[@robbanbobban2]

That part about just playing another Colt instead of Julianna was something I thought of during the first hour of my gameplay. The moment you meet another Colt I started to wonder... what if some versions of Colt wanted to break the loop, while some others didn't? That could've been really interesting. While I understand that game development is difficult, and so is marketing, I still think Deathloop did many things wrong. This was painfully obvious during the tutorial. There's something really wrong about your design if your tutorial has to last for hours.

[@renaigh]

Invaders who get bored of attempting to break the loop would incidentally do that exact thing by invading, that's a genius idea.

[@thehoopinggamer9166]

Longest tutorial ever lol. I thought I was in the main game for awhile.

[@Shenaldrac]

"There's something really wrong about your design if your tutorial has to last for hours." Pokemon. The entire monster taming genre, really. I can't remember a single one that opened up every game mechanic and really challenged me before the so-called "post game", with the main game really just being a tediously long tutorial.

[@HQ_Default]

Kind of a shame that this game didn't turn out as good as it could have. The idea of "Majora's Mask Immersive Sim" sounds like a fantastic concept.

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

I enjoyed Deathloop, but I will confess that this game is basically Mooncrash lite.

[@olivierrodriguesneto5995]

Mooncrash dumbed down for game journalists, as it seems like only now they noticed the arkane game design and gave credit to it

[@marcar9marcar972]

I hated mooncrash but I liked this game

[@Poodleinacan]

Oh dear... While Mooncrash is alright, it basically all boils down to grinding upgrades for the characters until they are good enough to go through their end without taking items that would be useful to other character runs. .... And adding to that playing the characters in a certain order so that the level changes don't effect their true runs negatively. Yeah... That way of playing Mooncrash took me some time to understand. Runs are completely unconsequential until you unlock new character and level-up all the characters.

[@athan336]

deathloop is the more refined mooncrash, if pythons labs dosent have power you can't beat the game

[@masterweapon334]

@@athan336 you can always craft control modules, or switch power from one area to another. Definitely can beat the game.

[@Duskets]

I had a Julianna invade me, kill Harriet Morse for me, then find me and kill themselves so I could grab her loot. Not gonna lie, it was very funny.

[@DioBrando-qr6ye]

I once found her body far in the ocean where I couldn't have take her loot without dying. I didn't fall for it.

[@andreworders7305]

23:29 oh poor sweet summer child

[@deathsyth8888]

Future CW would be very disappointed with Arkane's next effort in 'Redfall'. If he only knew then what he knows now.

[@Bluecho4]

Yeah, looking back on it now, Death Loop was a sign of things to come.

[@finitesound]

After the masterclass of Prey I was so disappointed in Deathloop. A great example of why, was found in how I finished the game. So, SPOILER WARNING, at the end of the game when you've killed all visionaries, you meet up with your daughter and you have a choice. If you choose to end the loop, you are asked to kill yourself as the last member alive maintaining the loop. Well, it suggests you jump to your death. I wasn't sure I trusted this, that it would actually end the loop. The game wasn't clear. I didnt know if i would actuallt die if i jumped. Knowing past Arkane games, I was used to them being immersive Sims, where player choice is respected and emergent gameplay encouraged. So I took out a grenade, stood on it, and died. Success!!!!....not. The game didn't respect my choice. I killed myself in the wrong way. I woke up on the same beach again and the loop had been reset. And that is the ultimate comparison for me as to how Arkane has lost the point. Deathloop isn't an immersive sim. It's an action game. And that lack of any choice makes an interesting concept mundane.

[@samuelcolt7034]

What? I did exactly the same thing and the loop was broken. That must've been a bug. (To clarify, I threw down three or four sapper charges as proximity mines before shooting them, so not precisely the same, but the same general gist.)

[@malazan6004]

I played deathloop first and prey second so I was amazed how much better Prey was

[@TheSnoozeFox]

Prey was made by the other guy behind Dishonoured who left after, Deathloop isn’t made by the same people it’s just arkane in name only

[@Peremptor]

Prey is awesome. I still need to go through the dishonored games though.

[@ehrtdaz7186]

it's like saying dishonored 1 isn't an immersive sim because you can't kill loyalists from the start lol

[@andreymagnuss]

The game is essentially designed around two elements - the loop and the invasion system. The loop of Deathloop is a refinement and a finalization of the similar concept first introduced in Dishonored 2's "A Crack in the Slab" and later in Death of the Outsider's "Follow the Ink" + "A Bank Job". Knowing that a lot of players tend to skip huge chunks of Dishonored games due to how open the environments are and how much freedom within these environments the players have, Arkane Lyon tried to make players apply their received knowledge not when the players are getting through the additional playthroughs, but within the first playthrough. Essentially, they wanted to achieve a certain synergy within various gameplay systems and the game's structure. So the loop with 4 areas / 4 periods was found to be the most engaging during the conceptualization phase. This combination allows the layouts to be mostly the same for the same areas at different times of day, therefore building the familiarity. It allows players to have even more control over their playthroughs and get a much more emergent narrative, as different missions can now be triggered in various ways. Even thougn it's still a linear game by the definition, it doesn't lie to the players like a lot of games with "non-linear" narratives do and rather trusts them to build their emergent stories. The whole narrative with almost everyone forgetting the previous day was built around again, the familiarity aspect. Whether the invasion system was a publisher demand or the idea proposed within the studio, it fits perfectly in the concept they've been building up to for several years. Just as for the single-player, familiarity is at the core of Deathloop's multiplayer - both players need to learn the environments, possible behaviours and the differences between different times of day because knowledge is power. And initially Julianna wasn't meant to be the player. But they decided to make her be the player as she would act smarter than any AI could ever be. The player is unpredictable even if you build a system of rewards for Julianna. And given as much freedom as Colt has the invasion becomes a real game of cat and mouse where no match would ever be the same. I don't think one can properly assess this game without having taken invasions into account. From what I've heard in this video, you didn't even google it. You CAN do things outside killing your target. You can help your target and try to build the Journey-esque type bond between yourself and the opponent. You can explore the environments to a certain extent and even learn something new not being hunted by everyone on the island as Julianna. It probably wouldn't be as enganing as playing the game of cat and mouse with Colt unless you're into this type of experience, but it's still there. Arkane Lyon are faithful to the systemic design, so the moment-to-moment experience of both players can be quite similar as most of the "tools" are shared. What's the problem with the color-tier? The color-tier itself is never the issue, it's the implementation that makes people think of it as of something negative. The real issue with the game is how the progression works. But knowing how much has to be taken into account in the case of Deathloop, I can imagine that's the best they could've pulled off. They start playtesting their games very early in the development so the progression is mostly a consequence of limited resources not being enough to cover a "non-linear" mission structure, unprecedented player freedom and the invasions. The repetitiveness by it's nature is nothing bad. It surely is not for everyone, but the players who appreciate learning, applying knowledge and experiencing the level of control over the situation... well, would appreciate it. The thing about immersive sims that makes it hard to sell, pitch and even recommend to your friends is that it's very reliant on the experience. And what Deathloop suffers from PR-wise is that immersive sim fans have a certain picture of this type of game in their heads and casual players are getting attracted by the gimmick, which in the end might indeed have a lot of influence over the game but not be as tangible as the casual player might expect. Some other points: - Killing dudes in certain times of day doesn't make other dudes not appear later in the day. There are some moments like it but they're more scripted as the areas require a solid state to play of familiary in both single-player and multi-player. - AI Julianna is very easy compared to most player-controlled Juliannas. The whole point of your enemies quickly forgetting about you or having a generous window of alert is that they are supposed to aid Julianna by either helping detect Colt, distract him or damage him. - The loop stress really works only when you're killing several visionaries throughout the day and not skipping times of day. The loop stress makes enemies more powerful later in the day. - The dominant strategy is a curse for any game and you can only fix yourself because tiers of enemies don't really help with that and when they actually force you to, they also cause frustration. - How can Deathloop's loop be a step back from Mooncrash's loop if the loops of both games have different origins and different purposes?

[@TheMaskedWarrior92]

Glad to find you even here, good sir, and great response by the way

[@fhead8684]

Great breakdown, absolutely agree.

[@TheMaskedWarrior92]

It should be also appointed: why the color-tier loot is problematic in Deathloop, but in Mooncrash not? Especially considering that Deathloop has weapon perks that basically change how weapons behave while Mooncrash has a more “Borederlands-esque” type with stats and elemental effects?

[@MikhailKutzow]

The title alone basically sums up my thoughts on Deathloop. It's fun, but it runs out of content well before the game ends, and then things start to get repetitive. And I do think it had some neat ideas, and in many ways could make a very good introductory immersive sim - it's not the best in the genre, but it is a lot more approachable than many of them are (it's up to you if this is a good trade-off for introducing someone to the genre). The big problem I find, though, is that it doesn't commit enough to its concept. The game is, ironically, very linear. There's only one perfect day, and you have to follow a number of steps, all fairly linearly, in order to set it up. This results in the problem mentioned in the video where often you feel like you have a lot of time to just waste because you need the next loop to be able to actually progress. Honestly, this feels like padding, because they didn't want players able to beat the game too quickly by having a full time loop sandbox. The worst part, though, is that I think this makes the multiplayer less popular. I only played a little, but I do think the PVP invasion multiplayer is the most fun part of the game, with both players able to use the immersive sim sandbox to fuck with each other. Unfortunately, when you're just trying to get chores done so that you can progress, the potential lost time from being invaded and killed becomes really unappealing. So while I did enjoy Deathloop for what it is, I do agree it's one of Arkane's weakest offerings, perhaps due to not knowing what it wanted to be. While I do think it's a little arrogant to say what a game "should" be, I can't help but do so here: Deathloop probably would have been more fun if it focused more on being a roguelite sandbox and a multiplayer game, and less of a linear, more traditional immersive sim.

[@Guyinthehat]

7:18 that one didn't age quite so well

[@maymayman0]

It's important to keep in mind that Raphaël Colantonio mentioned in an interview with Rock Paper Shotgun that it was BETHESDA that told them that they didn't want dishonored 3, and instead told Arkane to make a small game with multiplayer, microtransactions, and recycleable ("roguelike") gameplay. I feel like its a miracle I enjoyed deathloop as much as I did

[@professionalspecialist5780]

The curse of the “immersive sim” is the name itself

[@007megaoof]

Immeersive Sim feels more like a game design phlisiopohy than a genre

[@ZodiacEntertainment2]

@@007megaoof It is, which is why a game like Cruelty Squad can be considered an "imm sim" without having some of the trademarks of the genre.

[@007megaoof]

@@ZodiacEntertainment2 wow, a person that aggres with me.

[@jillsandwitch67]

@@ZodiacEntertainment2what trademarks does cruelty squad not have?

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

it's a meaningless term. it refers 99% of the time to mediocre first person shooters with one or two added layers of environmental hazards or effects

[@sinisterz3r090]

A majorly big solution would be to add way more endings. Like at least 14 of them that are accomplished with many clues and other things in use with other clues from other connected endings to make it seem like you are escaping with your own intelligence rather than following the same thing over and over. It would have added a lot more replay ability and wouldn't leave me with a 6 hour playtime.

[@SCP-Dr_Bright]

I played this game COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY, since there was no time limit I played Deathloop like a stealth game, it made some parts monotonous but was pretty fun trying to sneak by everyone and made the game much different than the few times where i just killed everyone.

[@phelot8814]

I totally agree. Deathloop is a great game with many secrets and puzzles to solve. It was a really well spent time with this game.

[@SCP-Dr_Bright]

@@phelot8814 good story, decent gameplay loop, reasonably challenging. the only thing i disliked was that it got repetitive (surprise surprise in a game about time travel) it still had lots of content and the day night cycle made it different enough that it wasn't too bad.

[@phelot8814]

@@SCP-Dr_Bright yes, doing the same thing again was quite boring in Deathloop. This is why I didn't finish Prey Mooncrash DLC And one more topic. Gameplay like: Do one thing, go back to tunnels, visit the same area in different parts of the day, to see the results of your action. It's interesting and fun at the beginning, but too much time consuming and, eventually, boring too. However it's still a great game, with interesting lore and story you want to know. Immersive sim aspects of the game are fantastic too. Somethimes I felt like I was in Dishonored, which is one of my favourite game of all time 🙂

[@SCP-Dr_Bright]

@@phelot8814 yeah the first dishonored and theif are great games and i totally agree with your statement. finding the best way through without getting caught is really fun, until you've done it a hundred times and it's second nature. go around, disable a laser trap and crouch under, go invisible and disble a turret, then sniper the guy in the head while he's looking at his computer all alone. i can remember exactly what to do without looking at it after about a year of not playing it, that's how many times things like that took.

[@phelot8814]

@@SCP-Dr_Bright I also love hack turrets to make them shoot enemies. It's really fun 😉

[@ghost085]

I liked Deathloop, but I don't like how the press considered it the best Arkane game ever.

[@mrcheesemunch]

Yeeeah I just don't get it, it just smelled like a "Well he have to give *something* GOTY..." It looks like an okay game but nowhere near as cool as Dishonored or Prey. It was possibly the best game of the year for sure but that doesn't make it 10/10.

[@mrcheesemunch]

@ashy Liking a game is one thing but declaring it's a flawless 10/10 title is another and I've yet to say any justification for it being that good.

[@knavenformed9436]

@ashy Game outlet review scores are rarely about how the game actually is

[@mrcheesemunch]

@ashy GTAV is also incredibly overrated though, 10/10 ratings should mean something but they're basically just advertising. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone who honestly rates games give either a 10, which is why I never listen to websites. Meanwhile IGN gives Forbidden West a 9 because "You can't climb everywhere"...

[@knavenformed9436]

@ashy What the fuck are you on about lol

[@GabrielOnuris]

I love your sponsor's videos because you sound like those vendor machines in the Bioshock series, and that couldn't be more perfect to this channel!!

[@magnificmango336]

Seeing your video about being so excited early on, I knew this was coming eventually.

[@IamSpacedad]

There's good ideas in Deathloop and I like the setting's art direction & attitude. There's just a few stairs missing in its overall design to really make it all come together. This game was Arkane trying to make an 'accessible Mooncrash' and a 'Dishonored where you can kill everyone without worrying' - I want to see what Arkane will do evolving things further. For me personally; I want a punishingly difficult but rewarding 'Deathloop/Mooncrash' style game.

[@arrowknee7356]

I think one of the core goals was not to give you a bunch of fun toys, and then have the game punish you for using them. Which is one of the big issues I have with the Dishonored games. They simply give you far more tools if you go loud so to speak, but then the punishment for doing so seems to make most players not interact with the vast majority of mechanics present. For me the largest issue in Deathloop is if you are going to do a loop game. For a game very much so borrowing from roguelikes then I expect more crazy changes, sure there are changes between the different times of days, but there should be changes based on what you do in the morning. For example if you kill someone maybe later in the day some characters are in different locations, have more security etc. I suspect they did not do this due to the invasion mechanic which I really enjoy, as if they did that, then you would run into the issue of the invader not really knowing what your likely plans and goals are. The invasion mechanic is something that really makes this game stand out for me despite it not being there best game (that goes to Dark Messiah of Might & Magic imo)

[@s.a.l.1974]

the idea of memories from mooncrash could work kind of well with a Rashomon type idea of people misremembering things and being unreliable narrators to add more difference and weirdo factor to the world

[@gondalasatvarsh5892]

I will be honest, Deathloop is the most disappointing Arkane game in my opinion. The game started out super strong (although a bit linear), but you slowly realize how restrictive and lack of flexible mechanics this game has compared to other Arkane games and immersive sims. The final nail in the coffin is the game just gives you the illusion of freedom as there is only ONE true way to take down all Visionaries at once. Prey mooncrash has more nuance and depth and it's just a DLC!

[@BkBk-gy6vr]

Wrong

[@DioBrando-qr6ye]

most disappointing arkane game... YET

[@sixgradename]

haha yeah

[@noahdigit430]

7:17 This is what we would call "Forshadowing."

[@GunRunner106]

"4 days, 4 time zones - so 16 levels..." more like 13.....

[@Lonewolf360gaming]

I remember being so hyped for deathloop but unfortunately never got around to getting the 60$ in order to buy it. so I kinda just watched a few KZbin videos until I forgot about it

[@felman87]

I really need to get around to playing Prey. You've talked it up so much and it's just sitting on my "To Play" pile.

[@noahsains6227]

Best game i ever played

[@ToastyCubes]

Deathloop felt to me like a game people obligated themselves to play under false pretenses. Maybe it will hold up over time but yeah it really looks and plays like a greatest hits album

[@chuexsy672]

I would have been one of those people who obligated themselves to play it under false pretense. Good thing I don’t have a current Gen console and good thing my PC can’t run this game.

[@ArkayeCh]

Deathloop beating Psychonauts 2 in game direction is a travesty.

[@josiahmoore7460]

“Any one thing that does multiple things, will never do them as well as multiple things doing one thing each.” Pretty well describes Deathloop, jack of all trades vs specialists

[@Orange_Swirl]

Yeah, but that doesn't really matter if your specialty is in art and you get shot to death because you tried to fight in combat but couldn't. And, on the flipside, it doesn't matter how good you are at direct combat if it all it takes to kill you is some "friend" slipping enough poison in your tea and killing you. "Jack of All Trades, Master of None, is oftentimes better than Master of One."

[@rae5425]

Yeah but that is every immersive sim tho. Hacking, Stealth, Combat, RPG Elements

[@wizzy25]

I absolutely agree about the difficulty. By the time I had to do the perfect day I was so farmed up I did it first try without even dying once to respawn

[@SimplyMavAgain]

Every Death Loop review (from the reviewers I really care about) so far makes me feel bad for never having finished Mooncrash. It fun, but it hard, man.

[@noahsains6227]

Gets less hard though as prey did, the time limit is the big eh for me i loved exploring talos 1 but mooncrash rushes me and i hate that

[@matman000000]

As much as I love Arkane, I'll probably never play Deathloop. I wasn't a big fan of Mooncrash because I enjoy their games the most with a completionist mindset, spending as much time exploring each level, experimenting and completing side quests as I can. Most descriptions of the game also give me flashbacks to Phantom Pain and its endless recycling of the same locations and gameplay loops, which is not a good thing.

[@keoyeo8941]

"I played in the way that would absolutely minimize fun for me and I didn't have any fun playing, what gives?!"

[@kerem1106]

wake up babe, lore accurate santa upload

[@DagothDaddy]

It sucks because I was hoping for Prey 2.0 instead, we got 70s dishonored. I imagine after Prey they were given orders to tone down ghe RPG side of things and ramp up the action side of it.

[@bluemooninthedaylight8073]

That's Bethesda in a nutshell. More action, less RPG.

[@t.t6294]

@@bluemooninthedaylight8073 This is made by Arkane. it's only published by Bethesda SOFTWORKS

[@arrowknee7356]

So the main issue of expecting a Prey 2 from this game, is this is made by a different developer. There are two Arkane development teams. From what I recall both worked on dishonored 1, then one team went on to do dishonored 2 and deathloop, and the other went on to do Prey and soon to release Redfall. There will be some crossover i'm sure, helping with art assets, testing etc, but the core team making the games is simply different.

[@MrHappymanx]

Why hope for Prey 2.0 when the game isn't Prey? just because it was made by the same studio.

[@thicc_vic]

6:12 the Juliana Gameplay was one of my Favorite Parts about Deathloop. I hated when i got invaded, but i love invading myself. I actually maxed out the Level of my Juliana And let me tell you, an Player Juliana vs an AI Juliana is a whole different game. A Player Juliana is the hardest enemy you can have in the game. They know the maps and your goals, they play way, *WAY* better than the AI It's actually insane how mutch Juliana invading your game changes everything I recommend Leadheads video on the topic, she describes what makes Juliana so important to the game way better than I ever could

[@thicc_vic]

@Lord Inquisitor Shadowlord She/Her as far as i know

[@GitraSilvermane]

Took me about 28 hours to finish Deathloop as I was taking my time. The entire time I was excited and wanted to play more to get that perfect day but much like you, after I was done, I had no want to go back and play more. It's a good game but nowhere near the level of Prey. I honestly think the most interesting thing about Deathloop is the fact that there is a pretty good chance it's the world of Dishonored but quite some years after 2.

[@Upsideround]

I never thought of it until you said it. It is a rehash of all the best mechanics that did make me want to play the other games

[@jestpukp9364]

Thank you for telling me about Magic spoon I love their cereal so much !

[@robertoinchingolo]

I respect Arkane for trying something different while keeping some of the design philosophies of immersive sims. There's only so much you stick to the formula without remaking System Shock again, but in a different setting

[@noahsains6227]

But like, is that a bad thing if its done well? Id kill for more prey style games

[@benhickson6149]

Cant wait to see your look at Redfall or Redfail

[@grassbackyard3825]

The meta-irony of this sea of thieves/dishonored style videogame named D E A T H L O O P.

[@hotmailcompany52]

I think I should really finish Prey and then play Mooncrasher instead of eyeing Deathloop lol

[@TheMC1102]

I find it extremely ironic that Arkane, a studio known for developing games that offer a variety of ways to play, made a game that's repetitive by design.

[@NotCharAznable]

There are two types of video game KZbin “reviewers”.

[@zachgoodrich6100]

Deathloop is an amazing game in the way that it's represented as a game itself if not the most amazing game made by Arkane. Deathloop was my personal favorite fresh IP to see a 2021 release as far as gaming went that year in the last. I burned over 50 hours or longer in Deathloop thanks to achievement hunting coming from a Deathloop achievement completionist in myself making it one of my 20 Perfect Games on Steam that I'm currently rocking and for me Deathloop can be quite the challenge for 100% achievements completing folks like it was at many times for me while I went for achievement after achievement until the very end of unlocking them all. Nice video btw!

[@Archangelm127]

Given the calculated, *deliberate* snub of Valheim, we shouldn't even be talking about the Game Awards henceforth unless it's a momentary sneer. They threw away any sort of credibility when they deliberately refused to even *mention* one of the standout games of the entire year. So, that aside, I think you pretty much nailed it here. :)

[@CharlatanWonder]

That's a fair assessment. I used TGA mainly because DICE hasn't aired yet. Cruelty Squad was robbed.

[@LeonZaneFigueira]

its funny because I loved my 95 hours of death loop but wishing It could be a 300+ type game with far more things to do and explore post finishing the story, kinda ended a bit too abruptly not much reward at all or satisfaction, but the core game play is so fun

[@the4thdownninja614]

You can help colt in invasions…plays into the narrative as well organically.

[@socioseal]

i feel like the repetitive-ness of deathloop is kinda the point of it. think back to the the 1993 film Groundhog Day, the protagonist of the film (Phil Connors) was stuck in a 1 day time loop. if you notice his behaviour as how time goes on where he's stuck in a loop over and over again , you can see his behaviour goes from distraught to being bored, where he knows exactly everything that is supposed to happen that day, and he just gets on with it which is what the player goes through, until they set up the perfect day and then they get it at the end. i think its more of a journey through the mind of when you know its gonna happen and you do it again and again but are you willing to go through with it and complete it or are you going to stop and quit, something phil connors never had the option to. i guarantee it if he had the option presented infront of him he would close the loop and go do something else as easy as just closing the game and again he didnt have the option to and he changed. i think the more cynical view players are seeing the games loop from is close minded, but also its my own opinion added on some pseudo philosophy or some random bs. and thank you for coming to my ted talk

[@matman000000]

That's the difference between a movie and a game, though. You enjoy watching Phil getting tired of the loop because you only see the craziest events from his adventures. Now imagine the movie was an entire season of a TV show and you'd actually have to watch every day he went through. Even the most patient viewers would probably give up halfway through.

[@socioseal]

@@matman000000 yeah, thats pretty fair.

[@trevor3013]

It just shows the difference between arkane Lyon and Austin. I imagine Austin has more creative vision these days

[@r.w.9631]

I like deathloop. I think the problem is everyone wants to judge it as an "IMMERSIVE SIM" when its really just a fps rogue lite.

[@bcrunch]

what was the game at the end with the lever action? seems interesting

[@Pneubeteube]

17:41 please tell me that you can unfold the stock on that gun I am so tired of seeing a scorpion (or scorpion styled gun) in games that doesn't let you unfold the stock Also thanks for the great video

[@SCP-Dr_Bright]

did you really do the statue section by going through the entire building? you know theres a door around back that leads directly across from 2 bit right?

[@OldSkullSoldier]

Playing Single player mode makes sense only if you want to try to do some achievements. THe point of game is that thrill whether some strong Julie player will ruin your playthrough or maybe you will barely make it!

[@Deorman]

Despite the problem of repetitivity already, I think the game problem is it's simply too short, you should have more areas, more way to perfect loop, more interaction development with each visionaries and MORE variety of ennemies. But in the end I liked the game and it's still better that what I expected. I also preferred it to Mooncrash, I find the story of Deathloop better and I actually liked a lot of the puzzles, and discoveries in Deathloop, I don't remember finding a lot of cool hidden stuff in mooncrash which was a big let down in comparisom to the original prey for me. And I prefer it to dishonored to be honest, I have a hard time staying immerse in a game with constant murder, if my ennemies are humans minding their own business or just doing their job (which was a huge gameplay limiting factor for Dishonored) With Deathloops Story you don't need to feel like a mass murderer since you know it's a loop.

[@CharlesM2]

What didn’t make sense to me with the invasion mechanic was the incentive for cosmetic outfits for your characters… in a first person game where you only see your hands in gameplay. I mean eye-candy for whoever your shooting IN the invasions (if they even see you in the 10 seconds before someone does a backstab and ends it) but otherwise what’s the point lmao

[@InfiniteQuest86]

Pretty much 100% agree. I was pretty excited about this game since I like time loop movies. I got about 15 hours in, super modded up, understand what needs to happen to win, but don't feel like it. It is funny to watch your gameplay and see how totally different you do things than me.

[@krispy_kornflake]

Charl follows Astrophysics let's fucking gooo

[@AlexPinna531]

this video makes me wanna play prey

[@ThatGuy89002]

it's kinda of unreal to me seeing a Sponsor in a CW video

[@elgringofeo9348]

Ey nice to see blood west is shown

[@RedDed228]

What's weird is I felt the same damn way, plus I had a memory leak on my computer so it ran super bad, I mean I don't have the best specs but like it should be enough to run this game. I got bored tho super quick like it became a hassle for me.

[@electricmiragemedia]

I think the reason you don't watch others' videos while working on the same subject is really cool. Also, +1 to "I'd much rather be playing Prey: Mooncrash"

[@alexanderrahl7034]

"I decided to put the game down and wait for the bugs to get fixed only to find I had no itch to play the game again." Hey, exactly how I feel about Cyberpunk lol.

[@HellDevildan2003]

trust your judgement so ima try that cerial

[@misterdedlift4879]

Honestly sounds like Hitman with only one map.

[@Ironclad17]

Who would have thought a loading system wouldn't be groundbreaking in 2022.

[@g.4279]

This game had one enemy type.

[@AnimatedStoriesWorldwide]

MY DREAMS OF STARBUCKS UNIQUENESS.... Shattered to the wind... How could you...?

[@OGSumo]

That point about “dominant strategy” is something I see a lot of people who arnt “hardcore gamers” (see: people who think games arnt just distractions) dont understand. In other games I will often complain about how a mechanic is just superfluous and doesn’t actually change anything meaningful. An example being a choice between stealth or loud, yet nothing in the game rewards you for going for the much more difficult stealth-route. When I mention this to self proclaimed non-hardcore gamers I hear something like “well if you dont like going loud just do stealth, it’s not the game thats bad, it’s you”. This misses the whole point of why I play games. I play to explore, experiment, be challenged and grow, not just to waste time. I do what works in order to overcome the challenge the game designers put in front of me. It’s not fun to handicap myself and make up for the lack of substance and challenge. I don’t just want things to take longer, I want them to be deeper. (Challenge-runs are fine for squeezing out that last bit of fun out of an already good game you’ve played many times though)

[@robertnomok9750]

yep. I paid money for the game. I dont have to CREATE my of fun. I dont want to do a 1 lvl naked barefist only run to make game hard or fun. If game is broken on mechanical level that its a game fault. If I can kill every enemy with 1 button press why should I master some other mechanic for hours? Hitman games are in tought spot for me. After first victory I find it hard to replay a lvl. Because other option require more effort for same result.

[@doyouwannarollwithme]

Wait till you find about this thing called imtrinisc vs extrinisc motivation

[@renaigh]

Prey (2017) was a new IP while Deathloop was a bad reimagining of Dishonoured.

[@jjforcebreaker]

Such a shame. I'd sell my liver for PREY2, Dishonored3, Ar Fatalis 2, Dark Messiah 2... I'm fine with making a game with a broader appeal once in a time, and I know they want to sell more than they have been previously, but for me there's not enough meat under DL's skin.

[@amimm7776]

I love how the one constant between Prey 2006 and 2017 is their fans would commit multiple felonies for a sequel.

[@xxxtoddythebodyxxx]

I like this game. My runs are not the same. I do different missions every time. I guess some people didn't explore more than the in game guide.

[@ShahStark]

I really liked deathloop and it absolutely has a strong story and characters as well as some good roguelite imsim fun. though it must be said Mooncrash had far more depth in its time loop. That said I think a lot of the points here are rather valid but I will argue that the AI Juliana really doesn’t compare to an actual player. There’s a distinct cat and mouse game where each player is guessing the others move. The game is easy to compensate for her so I’m not suprised you found it less compelling.

[@MKBUHDD]

Just a heads up: they fixed the dump Npcs with last patch, but guess what! They are now completely broken. Because instead of really fixing it, they just made them more dump in opposite way. Like making them so f*cking unrealistic in favour of making them harder doesn’t fix anything! The npcs in last patch will see you coming even from logically not possible Angle. One shoot even from silent gun will activate all npcs in area. The detecting level will go read in blink of an eye. I can go further and further on this dump AI. Yes it is now harder and in some area stealth is broken, but making them harder doesn’t mean they fixed them at all.

[@chasepalumbo2929]

Great review.

[@Ikcatcher]

The lack of marketing also didn’t do this game any service. I swear I only see like one trailer every E3 that was just a cinematic trailer with no footage of gameplay and then they disappear until launch

[@Player-10]

The way you describe other games doing elements in Deathloop better reminded me of why I stopped playing Prey tbh. I know its a love it or hate it kind of thing, but I really just found myself unimpressed by boujee space hotel with the occasional dead body (complete with a sightseeing checklist of them), overrun by ink blob HeadCrab/The Many wannabes. I just kept thinking, haven't I seen this and done this before?

[@mayonnaise3959]

I haven’t

[@Player-10]

@@mayonnaise3959 Half-Life, System Shock, BioShock, I recommend them

[@mayonnaise3959]

@@Player-10 and all those games aged awfully

[@Player-10]

@@mayonnaise3959 in your opinion. They're still great fun and legendary

[@velvetdraws3452]

heads up, probably want to put a flashing lights warning at 12:50 to 13:09, that hurt to watch

[@anguishedcarpet]

Whats insane to me, it STILL runs like shit on my beast of a pc, literally over a year after release

[@rupankakalita150]

I loved this game. I hope there will be a sequel. But then again, i loved Death Stranding too. I guess i love experimental gaming ideas.

[@prawngravy18]

It's a roguelike, it's not experimental bethesda pushed them into making a game with roguelike elements and multiplayer, they did a great job with what they were given.

[@void2541]

Deathloop and Death Stranding are definitely among my favourite games from the 2020’s (Finished DS when it released on PC). So it’s fun to read your comment! I don’t know if that’s the experimental vibe, but I guess that it’s a mix of: -playing something unique while most games feel the same (for example I tried playing the last AC Mirage and it just doesn’t feel as fun as the second one) -and most of all, these are games that have their identity, their atmosphere and once you get involved into it you can’t do anything but try to dig into the lore, to try and understand what lands behind this Loop Anomaly or these Timefalls and BTs!

[@intergalacticspacewizard1966]

For a game centered around a time loop premise I though it was very lazily done, majora's mask is over 20 years old now and it's still a more impressive game in how it handled it's time sensitive events. Overall it's an ok game, it's just very disappointing. I also hated the invasion mechanic because I'd get invaded while I was just having fun exploring and then i would die and lose tons of items and potential upgrades because someone was cheesing me with a greater toolset than I had at the time

[@camelCased]

I would like a first-person time-loop game but without shooting. I'm one of those people who just don't get any pleasure of having to fight enemies; my brain gets too easily overwhelmed by the adrenaline rush and I start making so many stupid mistakes that the game becomes a frustrating mess. But I'm a huge fan of sci-fi and first-person puzzle games. Portal with its many mods is the best game ever for me - it has adventures, shooting, puzzles, even a story. Unfortunately, there are very few games like that, and most of them feel like bleak variations of the same. Really would want a timeloop style of game with a feel like Portal.

[@robertnomok9750]

Forgotten city than?

[@NIL0S]

That cat "never asked for this".

[@George-zj9rr]

I'm happy to have supported the game because of the art it contained. (any game with weapons and buildings that have never before existed is worth buying the artbook for.) But I agree, it's terribly shallow compared to what Arkane could have made with modern tech. But that's practically every developer now. Major AAA projects have to reduce risk and deliver shiny graphics, or else the soulless corporate overlords will dismantle the studio. I pretty much knew what I was going to get when I saw the game play footage with color tiered weapon categories, the lazy approach to arsenals. The hacking tool and machete are part of the loadout screen, but you can't change anything about them. Not even cosmetically, there's nothing to unlock. It's like an unfinished feature. And, goddamit, 99% of the objects in the levels are still static and bolted onto the ground. What the hell is the point of raytracing? The games are not more fun with it! I asked Rapheal Colontonio a few years ago where he saw immersive sims going in order to stay marketable. He said some form of multiplayer interaction. He didn't make this one, but I don't want to think about what development had to compromise at the alter of this Juliana invasion setup. I turn off multiplayer too, because it's just not fun in this. We're all getting ripped off, so I wish for the collapse of the corporate structure and the liberation of the studios.

[@meltedWax169]

At 2:28 dude i missed that game.. star wars empire at war i think?? I have the disc and everything, the fat fucking cd box n all- i grew up on that shit, my dad showed it to me as a kid- fun as hell, glad people still play it

[@StarkeRealm]

Empire at War is one of the best RTSs out there. It still holds up remarkably well.

[@GunthokTheMental]

Why was there a censor bar around 3:06?

[@CharlatanWonder]

Story spoiler stuff.

[@adiveler]

So the best time-loop game is still Outer Wilds?

[@0ff_13lvck4]

I didnt like it at first, but then i approached it as farcry but as dishonored and it really opened up for me.

[@ewanfraser]

Yeah I played for about 6 hours and had zero fun

[@Spaceman_u]

1:40 I know its off topic but the fact that Life is Strange True Colors (one of the worst stories my girlfriend and I have ever experienced) got nominated for best narrative game that year is shocking

[@mayonnaise3959]

Life truly is strange is those fucking games are seen as reward worthy by ANY sane human being

[@louiebeast6584]

I never beaten deathloop, it’s a game I got baited by reviews and don’t wanna touch again

[@deskslam4232]

Wgat game at 2:24 my sanity is slowly slipping away please

[@OMGSEASALT]

Magic spoon needs to come to Australia

[@PretentiousAdonis]

Deathloop was a weird ass game for me. I really enjoyed the game until I finished and realized I have no interest in ever playing it again. I still really like the art direction, music, and Colt's banter with Julianna.

[@buddstar7681]

I had a great experience with deathloop it was fun and innovative but i feel like the argument i knew what to do cause i watched a speedrun is abit flawed because not everyone is gonna watch that speedrun or a guide

[@kleeenco]

I did enjoy the cat video thank you.

[@asturias0267]

I don't want to be "that guy", just to offer my own experience. I have a GTX 1060 with 6 GB vram and an i5-6600 and ran the game without any issues other than some long load times. I don't remember if I had any issues with crashing, but I also didn't play the game long enough to beat it. It was pretty fun with what I played and idk why I didn't beat it. Maybe it's the fact that I was getting it from a steam family share and could only play when the other person was offline, idk.