DEBATE: Ali Ataie vs. Mike Licona (2006)

[@aliataie101]

Hello Mike. We haven't spoken since this debate... such a long time ago. I hope you are doing well. Take care. Peace.

[@MikeLiconaOfficial]

Thanks for commenting, Ali. I'm well, thanks. I hope all is well with you, too, friend.

[@rizwanramzan5729]

Dr. Ali and Dr. Mike need to have another friendly discussion on this topic now. It would be interesting to hear a dialogue in 2021.

[@phenomenal17playz]

Ali and Mike licona please do a debate of theological perspective about Jesus.

[@Slave-of-Allah]

@@MikeLiconaOfficialAssalamu Alaikum ❤. How much do you know about Islam?

[@hanialturk5981]

@@Slave-of-Allah he knows nothing…vast majority of Christians knows absolutely nothing.

[@joemalone3099]

I am stunned by his knowledge of the old and new testament for a muslim...and his mastery of arabic and hebrew languages...amazing

[@thecuriousservant5549]

we muslims not only know our Quran , but also other books. Alhamdulillah. he is not the only one.

[@richardpaulhall]

Who cares? Where is the evidence tha the Bible and Quran are true?

[@abdulmunim318]

​@@richardpaulhall There is a video online i believe by Dr. Zakir Naik - Is the Qur'an the word of God? That presentation will get your feet wet and will clearly demonstrate with evidences why it is that the Qur'an is true and from God Almighty. Peace

[@abdulmunim318]

Why are you surprised 😆? There's Muslim scholar's out there that have memorised the Qur'an, Fiqh books and Hadiths with complete chain of narrations.

[@polokucoch8112]

@@AlkahestHD you said that since you are a muslim you will tell me to read the quran and it's miraculous verses? Where milk is made : allah thinks milk is made in a cow's Belly (stomach) Q16:66 🤣🤣 Another scientific blunder...

[@daun123]

I can see Mike brilliantly wasting his time by attacking Ali while Ali keep giving audience information and references.

[@phenomenal17playz]

Yep

[@sparrow3491]

When someone is quoting the other ones book he believes in and the other doesn't shows the intellect. Ali schooled him the guy is also smart in knowing how to respond to attacks. Alhamdolilah

[@polokucoch8112]

He's not attacking ali, he's correcting ali's misrepresentation or going off topic. e.g. ali only giving half of the verse which will change the meaning. It's too bad that he had to correct ali for most of the debate. ali said in his rebuttal that "The resurrection is the least plausible explanation" but notice, He didn't provide a single shred of evidence to support his view, not one argument to show that it was the least plausible - mike

[@Iron_Ottoman]

@@polokucoch8112 Ali won the debate easily in the first argument. "Dying rising saviour man Good" - Greko-Roman belief, whihc influened Paul, while early christians followed the jewish understanding of God, exactly same as the Christ himself who never understood himslef to be God, but worshipped and prayed to a superior being. "The father is greater than I" "MY father and your father, my God and your God", "Why do you call me good, No one is good except GOD ALONE" Jesus came to fulfill the law not to ablolish and he was sent to Israel not gentiles. He was JEW and the central belief is pure monotheism, NON TRINITARIAN.

[@polokucoch8112]

@@Iron_Ottoman 🤣🤣 you say that ali won the debate easily and then list of a whole bunch of muslim dawah talking points! 🤣🤣 What did I say? I didn't say that mike or ali won the debate. I just said that mike was correcting ali's misrepresentation or going off topic which is Factual true. If you really want to play that game... allah is 3 gods. Look at this fake scientific miracle from allah. he says that milk is made in the stomach / belly!! 🤣🤣🤦‍♀🤦‍♀: quran 16:66 And there is certainly a lesson for you in cattle: We give you to drink of what is in their bellies, from between digested food and blood: pure milk, pleasant to drink. islam is therefore FALSE. Sorry to say...

[@markstamper1]

Mike I believe next time you debate, let the audience be the judge. It’s problematic when you say you have already won the debate. This should be for the audience to decide.

[@formermarine5452]

Because of ALI ATAIE I am NO LONGER CHRISTIAN. I am MUSLIM.

[@othmanahmad7331]

Thanks Allah that He give hidayah islam to those He will ,to true sincere person. Not all who possess high education can receive truth even though enough prove or evidence was presented. They follow desire and afraid of losing worldly gain.

[@nobuyubu]

How about now, even this pretty clear that Mohammad is the biggest liar in history 😂

[@Sirreal73]

is

[@attila0073]

peace upon u well come back to real god

[@andrewmeawad4472]

Are you sure you not a Muslim born

[@RobertJohnson-un4ht]

Ali did a very impressive job. I learned a lot from his debate. Mike should learn from Ali.

[@polokucoch8112]

I think both would have learnt from each other. ali is not a god.

[@haikalsafrisam7818]

​@@polokucoch8112 ur right😂

[@polokucoch8112]

@@haikalsafrisam7818 Hehe. 🤣 Both had ok points and both were lacking also. Thanks for agreeing with me 😊

[@Traplicano]

@@polokucoch8112 yea no man is god (lol)

[@polokucoch8112]

@@Traplicano just saying that ali is not a god as a figure of speech as people almost worship him here... He's been known to lie... allah SPOKE to Adam, Moses, David and other prophets, BUT allah NEVER spoke to mahamed. mahamed NEVER did any signs mahamed NEVER did any prophecies mahamed was DECEIVED by SATAN mahamed is NOT a prophet.

[@NoeticMuse]

Dr Ali is an astonishing scholar. Its very clear he won this debate hands-down

[@oualidtrabelsi5784]

Dr. Ataie has presented an impressive argument but I fear that 95% of his audience does not have the intellectual capacity to follow what he has to say (myself included).

[@Greyz174]

Then how do you know it was impressive lol

[@abdulraheemsaliu2156]

Wallah, I believe you

[@hanjasolo]

He talks too fast, too intelligent..

[@danielharrison1065]

Alhamdulillah Muslim from England ❤️

[@theguyver4934]

You were never a real christian and I'm saying that as a muslim

[@Sheragust]

Well done Dr. Ali Ataie for not getting baited by the unsubstantiated claims Mike is using as "evidence". I loved the no BS straight to the point arguments against this ridiculous theology and this blatantly obvious corrupted book. I hope you do more debates in the future.

[@deanne2375]

Because of your words you sound more aggressive than argumentative

[@rakibalmahdi2401]

@@deanne2375 Try to understand what is aggressive and what is passionate. Thank you

[@jsanz4862]

Muslins are so passionate that if you leave Islam…you are a dead person!

[@joelalarsor8013]

A corrupted book which your book stole some ideas just to make it look legit and declare it as words of God.. very funny without bible your book is full of trash without your book bible still a book of guidance to understand the GOD of abraham the God of moses etc.. your book is not complete how can it be the words of God where it cannot support itself without the bible that you say its corrupted.. funny thing about these is that the bible does not agree with your books to justify your claims you just make lame excuse that the bible is corrupt... Without bible your book is nothing but fairy tale

[@texastawhid]

He is God - there is no deity except Him: the King, the Most Holy, the All-Perfect, the Source of Serenity, the Watcher of all, the Almighty, the Supreme in Might, the Majestic. Glorified is God far above what they associate with Him in worship. He is God: the Creator, the Inventor, the Shaper. He alone has the Most Beautiful Names. Whatever is in the heavens and the earth constantly glorifies Him. And He is the All-mighty, the All-Wise.

[@markstamper1]

Beautiful

[@FreeP321]

Allah SWT

[@steventylerplumlee5417]

Jesus glorifies God too.. so, yea everything in heaven and earth glorify Him.

[@TexasHoosier3118]

Jesus created all things. John 1:1

[@christristan2367]

One would think that Mike wouldn’t have wanted this debate to surface online. But he posted it. Which leads me to believe that he thinks he performed well in this… which he didn’t. He accuses Ali of going off topic but goes wayyy off topic to attack the literary style of the Quran. What a clown.

[@condorianonegdiffsgoku]

i have watched the video till the end. I am wondering why everyone is saying licona was destroyed. I do agree that you have to bring theology in it. In uhud an enemy killed a person who looks like the prophet. And then news spread like wildfire that Muhammad was killed. Some sahaba even went back to the city to defend it after hearing the news. But turns out it was a false alarm. There are a lot of cases in history where a person is mistaken for someone else and killed. Now this is very unlikely in the case of jesus. However it is still more plausible than rising after being dead for three days with all your cells stop functioning since the later cant naturally occur at all. So you have to bring theology into it. The theory he survived the crucifixion is also more plausible. Because an example survived of someone surviving (maybe a lot more survived but it didnt reach us). There are examples of survival even after falling from great heigth from a plane. Thats also unlikely for jesus but its still more plausible than waking after after all your cells stop working. Miracles are impossible (not just implausible) unless you bring theology into it because miracles pressuppose the supernatural. Otherwise it would be a very unlikely event, not a miracle. However sadly ali ataie didnt give any evidence for his theory except a single prophecy. Nor did he address most of licona's points. So it looks to me like mike won.

[@elomenaodhigbo9643]

The Quaran say Isa was raised up to Allah .... But Mohammed die of poison and his Allah can not save him .

[@Tryste]

The number of scholarly based arguments by minutes of Dr Ali Ataie, left Mr Licona lightyears beyond. Licona could attempt to close 2 doors when Ali Ataie open 30. It was in all Licona honor to post it though.

[@Slave-of-Allah]

Yeah I didn't go 1 second into the video. I was surprised to see a Christian posting the full video. I have huge respect for him now(didn't know him before). May he be guided to the truth.

[@matthewpaulson6497]

@@Slave-of-Allah Jesus says He is the First and the Last (Revelation 1:11-18). Yahweh says He is the First and the Last (Isaiah 44:6). The Quran says Allah is the First and the Last (Quran 57:3). Zakir Naik says Allah and Yahweh are not the First and Last but the Law of Moses is the First and Last. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnXHaoeNfdeGZrs Zakir Naik says Muhammad is in the Song of Songs! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXSWlGh7bteWhbM Yusuf Estes makes serious errors. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGPUg5-YeLN7qsk

[@dewinoviarini1103]

Huge respect for Licona, honorable person

[@faikismajli6681]

What is so good about these debates is that the more Muslims squeeze the so-called Christians with the questions, the more they try to invent their own answers and become more and more CHRISTIANS interested in ISLAM and convert to Islam.

[@ferashijazi9922]

progressively Licona's body language reflected his unease with Ataie's solid, to the point, and academic arguments. Frankly Pauline Christianity is very difficult to defend on academic grounds, it is based on theological conjecture, presumptions, and speculations. notice towards the end Licona started to target his attacks towards the Quran with unsubstantiated statements about Quranic manuscripts differences, by now anyone who knows anything about the history of Quran knows there is no reality to such claims. Also, he digressed into issue of "dis-chanted" Muslims leaving Islam and embracing Christianity, again the numbers talk fr themselves in this matter about Islam being the fastest growing religion in the world. As to those leaving Islam and the true reasons why they are "embracing" Christianity that is a discussion by itself but suffice to say that they are not converted by christian theological arguments. no matter how hard christian missionaries try they can never overcome their embarrassing enmeshment with colonialism and neocolonialism. Historically Christianity always had the power of state to propel it and expand it from Emperor Constantine, to the Popes of the Vatican, to Western imperialism and colonialism.

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

Watch Nabeel Qureshi and David Wood. Also, watch InspiringPhilosophy and Testify.

[@Isthatoumar]

@@Nameless-pt6oj 😭😭😭IP IS flawed Quran bible blog destroys him,

[@tomasrocha6139]

Islam is growing by births not by conversions

[@S1992-s7b]

that's because of the absurdity of the claims which Ali Ataie made. One gets crazy, when hearing such absurd claims.

[@ryuusuk33]

​@@S1992-s7bwhich claims are absurd? Site one

[@ibraheemg525]

So to be honest, as a Muslim Ali made a very good case for his arguement. Some of the points of Mr. Licona were not completely addressed but Mr. Licona kept on setting the bar for what he would accept as evidence and using that to dismiss Ali's arguments.

[@majorpremise]

Ali Ataie is like Ahmed Deedat on steroids!

[@natecarroll1779]

Ali gets butt hurt too much

[@jamalkhan3708]

😆I agreed

[@travislee1012]

You believe that? Today he says Jesus was crucified lol

[@MohamedShou]

@@travislee1012 nope he said “one of the very few theories from Islamic classical scholars is Jesus might be crucified” not “I believe Jesus was crucified”. Nice try though 😂

[@maulinux1]

@@MohamedShou Laughter does not suit the subject matter. After that, if you're a Muslim, it's clear that you don't think Jesus was crucified. But this is part of your faith and your choice of faith. God will judge.

[@rizwanramzan5729]

Ali Ataie addressed the facts but Mike wants to sweep the truth under the rug. Why? If you expose the truth then Mike is wrong..smh

[@shanebell2514]

Where is the evidence between 33AD until 610AD of the injil given from allah to isa?

[@sk9501-o6o]

@@shanebell2514 lol this goofy

[@Sg190th]

@@shanebell2514 If you want evidence on faith, then where's the evidence that Jesus EXPLICITLY said that he's God

[@shanebell2514]

@@sk9501-o6o or you could tell me.

[@shanebell2514]

@@Sg190th I will very gladly answer that when you answer my question, that's only fair isn't it?

[@GUULLIVER]

1:21:38 The Birmingham Quran manuscript (radiocarbon dated) now scientifically proves that the Quran was written down during the prophet's lifetime. David Thomas, professor of Christianity and Islam at the University of Birmingham writes, _"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Qur’an read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."_

[@henriquesombiga4338]

Ali smashed the deaf Licona!! Why the common christians or professor become blind and deaf and repeat same things again and again which have been answered properly!!

[@Sultan-gr5tk]

Nabeel was never a Muslim, he was a Qadyani. They always bring him as an ex-Muslim.

[@sictransitgloriamundi8178]

That!

[@jakesanservino7500]

He was a Muslim

[@xtendaustralia5169]

​@@jakesanservino7500 He was as muslim as unitarian or JW are christians

[@mustafaiqbal1454]

@@jakesanservino7500just because he claimed to be a Muslim dosent mean he was a Muslim. He openly admitted on a show he was an Qadiani Ahmadiyaa “muslim”. For those who don’t know, this group believes Jesus’ second coming already happened with their prophet they believe which is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who was an obvious liar. Both Muslims and Christians reject this obvious lie. Nabeel Qureshi is the last person for you to be using as a legit source of honesty

[@unhingedconnoisseur164]

Licona studied Qur’anic studies at burger king university

[@hanjasolo]

No, wrong. at McDonalds restaurant. 😂

[@jthsr]

Alhamdulillah from a revert in America ☝️🤲

[@asubaba3579]

Ali is too knowledgeable..He's too much for Mr.licona .

[@centi50s]

Licona chose the wrong man to debate with

[@moosadiamond3965]

Asalaamu alaykum I wish that he can silence that two misguided souls that Arab and the stiff neck guy who post statements of Islam that he stuck out of his thumb he is completely ignorant about Islam

[@Iron_Ottoman]

@@Hand_some_Lion majority of the people agree that Ali dominated the debate

[@PessiTheFraud]

​@@Iron_OttomanI don't

[@naloub3091]

when a christian is cornered he turns into politics

[@lefronzzedong4871]

Ali was so stupid for saying that 😂 he was the one that was cornered in the debate bruh.

[@onedeep7574]

@@lefronzzedong4871 , stupid is stupid was cuz, get your mark in the dark bubba gums as somewhere! Flawless! My brother is a student of knowledge Hebrew language is one of his major numb nuts! Told it how it is!

[@Servant_of_Yeshua_]

Still till this day idk what he meant by cornered, all I saw was alot of sarcasm from ali when confronted with historical facts... if anything ali was cornered with facts...

[@trinitymatrix9719]

My friend, allah got the crucifixion wrong, even shabir ally admits it. Please leave this false pagan cult and come to the truth. There is nothing of evidence in islam, its all based on texts constructed by humans.

[@amazingamazigh6847]

And even then they loose!

[@shohorabahamed3753]

Well, we all respect scholarship and great dialogue. But I was pretty surprised by Dr. Licona's strategies and tactics. It was all about attacking Dr. Ali, and say some words to insult islam like bogus, this, that and the other, but done pretty tactfully. Very disappointing. Dr. Ali or anyone with dignity should never debate someone like Dr. Licona in the future.

[@sparrow3491]

Isn't what all those who debate Islam just attacking and bringing weak false hadiths and what we call red herring fox news narrative? That's a normal tactic. Every individual who debates a Muslim, the muslim guy has somewhat memorised their bible and the christian doesn't even know 1 sentence from the Quran.

[@優さん-n7m]

This is typical of Christian missionaries, they have little substance so resort to mud slinging

[@macdrz6186]

He said truth.

[@Sg190th]

@@macdrz6186 If truth involves being an asshole, then I'm concerned with how you deal with personal things in life.

[@Atthehappiness0107]

How come Dr. Ali Ataie is not the most watched scholar yet! I'm sure it will happen eventually tho' Insha Allah

[@omaralfadhel1720]

Exactly what I wonder about!

[@PessiTheFraud]

still very irrelevant

[@caseycasey6961]

Ali is Lion, He is so Brilliant, what Mike talking about history, history, history , when He depends the 4 Gospels written and by Anonymous Like the rest of the New Testament, the four gospels were written in Greek. The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66-70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85-90, and John AD 90-110. Despite the traditional ascriptions, all four are anonymous and most scholars agree that none were written by eyewitnesses.

[@nimisable]

Wow. Ali is very knowledgeable . ما شا الله

[@norahanet5348]

Erudite and scholarly. Thank you . Your work is interesting and inspirational Dr Ataie.

[@ferozahmet195]

Ali Ataie spitting truth.

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

[@techmedandtravel]

​@@Nameless-pt6oj Way to God. That's Islam. All Prophets lead to God.

[@Sg190th]

@@Nameless-pt6oj You disregard God by worshipping his creation. Polytheism at its finest.

[@Monothiest247]

I love it when the camera pans into the crowd. Some of these faces look angry, their make believe salvation through blood sacrifice is a hoax. I hope by today 15 years since this video was made, majority of the crowd accepted the truth and bear witness there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the last and final messenger. Peace be upon him.

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

God punishes sin whereas Allah doesn’t. Allah is a corrupt god, he doesn’t deserve my worship. God does. He will punish unrepentant sinners but He says that if we genuinely repent and trust in Jesus, we can be forgiven. Jesus voluntarily takes our sins onto Himself to fulfill God’s justice for sin because the penalty for sin still hangs over us. Jesus paid the fine.

[@whitesteelangle156]

@@Nameless-pt6oj It pagan believed, Three persons in one God head 😇

[@huzaifasmuhammad5787]

​@@Nameless-pt6ojDid God forgive your sin or he (God) was paid the full price by Jesus? If Jesus paid the price in your place, that is also problematic, doesn't that mean Jesus love God's creation more than the creator himself? Sad, your following your desire not God

[@rizwanramzan5729]

Ali Ataie rippin it...its too bad Dr. Ataie doesn't dialogue anymore...

[@ashbrauw]

@Handy Man hhhhh he's still exposing the paulians cult

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@bink bee For the dead body..

[@Tryste]

He still post very interesting talks on MCC Bay Area channel and Zaytuna college channel

[@trinitymatrix9719]

@@ashbrauw Paul did not invent Christianity - Bart Ehrman kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWjRg4GVadxrY7s

[@abdelkarimkeraressi1418]

About the moon of prophete splin it in two part its historical . The king in india he see it and he build mosque in gold in small formula as gift. Go into shykh uthman he spoke about that.

[@Jabe1963]

Ali is the present day Deedat - excellent debater

[@Iron_Ottoman]

@@Hand_some_Lion david wood has 0 knoweledge LMFAO david wood poo guy got desttroyed by mohammed hijab and ali ataie hahahahahahha

[@fiinstrumental]

I was thinking the same. The New Ahmed Deddat

[@PessiTheFraud]

Deedat lost to Josh Mcdowell, never debated an actual theologian again. same with this guy, only two debates

[@ziadkhan5721]

Paul admitted to his lies in romans 3 v 7 also 1 john c2 v4 says he who claims to know his lord yet doesnt keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not with him, so wake up none can rescue u or pay to God a ransom for u psalms 49 v 7

[@shohorabahamed3753]

Dr. Ali. You speak so much like Muhammed Ali I just couldn't get over it.

[@nusyirwanhamzah]

Poor boy... Ataie is just too strong for him.

[@theguyver4934]

Mike is not really a debater give him a break plus I personally like him and I'm saying that as a muslim

[@MrStyle-sr1yv]

Truth > Falsehood always...may Allah guide Mike and bless Ali...subhaanallah.

[@shanebell2514]

Where is the evidence from 33AD until 610AD of the injil given from allah to isa?

[@polokucoch8112]

@@MrStyle-sr1yv They both made their points and obviously each thinks in the truth of their faith. JESUSAKBAR! MashaJESUS! May he guide everyone.

[@MrStyle-sr1yv]

@@polokucoch8112 masajesus ?? What does that even mean man stop making stuff up no wonder christianity split into 40k different sects everyone creates their ownnreligion guided by 40k holy spirita

[@GUULLIVER]

This kind of debate is utterly degrading and achieves nothing whatsoever other than driving away the people you pretend to welcome - because these debates very quickly degenerates into personal and communal insults and attacks. Thank you Dr Licona for initiating and championing such style of debate and thank you Dr Ali Ataei for not falling into that trap and remain civil, respectful and impersonal unlike the other guy.

[@anonamos3287]

This is one of the best debates online, that shows that the clear truth is not confusing or steeped in myth s. It's very funny listening to this Christian man's first rebuttal the arrogance that he says the debate is already lost because Ali didn't address what he said???? Arrogance is not proof, history is not fact it is just a person's account which can and has easily been manipulated by those who keep it thinking it important it suits their own agendas. The winner of ears write their own histories recording only their own side and view of morality. The justification they had for killing and destroying others. .at the end he does talk about the Qur'an completely contradicting his leading statement that's in not about these books? Regarding death, if a person drowns but is given the jaws of life and recovered did they die? If a person's heart is replaced and their body stopped did they die? No if you live after an event that other thought you died, but you are not dead, you did not die. Or it did not kill you.

[@MCXM111]

I remember watching this debate years ago. Ali made more sense as I recall. I should rewatch it.

[@truthdoesntcomeeasy743]

Peace. Did you get a chance to re-watch?

[@CoachZahabi]

There is no crucifixion narrative in the Q Gospel! This is a major point that was not addressed. Many scholars believe Mathew and Luke had a source named Q. This is because Mathew and Luke both copy from Mark word for word (the synoptic problem). Now what is in both Mathew and Luke but not found in Mark must be an earlier source for Mathew and Luke to copy from. This earliest source does not mention anything about crucifixion!

[@whizard84]

I like mike and i too thought that ali might flounder against mike’s arguments based on history-and just stick to textual and theological mike has to address and didnt-until his response came half way thro his rebuttal turn where he WRECKED mike and his arguments…then whereupon mike pretended not to hear when his closing statement turn came..ali won!!

[@whizard84]

Keep dreaming. Mike was often defensive and trying to attack quite a bit while ataie stuck to his case while preventing holes and poking holes in the opponent’s case which is the way to win a debate

[@SimpleReally]

@@Hand_some_Lion I spam laughing emojis when I have nothing to say

[@channelone3773G]

Mike Lincoln promoting his debate lost

[@faizalgool8788]

Mike lacona still need to shine with a debate, why does he get whipped by everyone he debates even Atheist. How disappointing from his contribution.

[@WizeAdvice1]

Wow...wow...wow... The Muslim guy simply single handedly Destroyed Christianity.

[@mohamednazeer157]

Because Christianity (theology ) was created by human not God .

[@amazingamazigh6847]

Christians always loose these debates. its impossible to defend Christian doctrine because its flawed so much. Full of errors and contradictions!

[@adamrahman1162]

I am impressed with Ali, because he brought more proof in the pudding.

[@macdrz6186]

Absolutely not

[@adamrahman1162]

@@macdrz6186 ok tell me where he goes wrong?? Please use evidence base not your emptional beliefs.

[@macdrz6186]

@@adamrahman1162 your question has come from your false belief. There are ample proofs that Christ has died.(even skeptics Also accepts that Christ has been killed by Romans on the cross) And your book rejects the truth.

[@Sg190th]

@@macdrz6186 You didn't answer Adam's question. Utter failure.

[@moustafakashen3610]

I’m sorry but Mike got absolutely destroyed here it’s so bad 😭

[@b_g2017]

Yeah, Dr. Ali actually smoked this guy! I love Dr. Ali! All of his videos are great! He was young in this video. Been doing it a long time. May Allah continue to bless the good Dr. Allahu Akbar

[@As-go6ho]

1:22:40 Genius😂😂 Ali ataie destroyed mike. I’m quite shocked that mike haven’t deleted the video

[@ertugrultheturk6793]

How can the resurrection be historic when all four gospels contradicts each other " which one of these 4 documents is true if they contradict each other? One thing that we can accept is that the 4 gospels are historically *contradictory* its not unified.

[@phenomenal17playz]

That's why Quran says "Those who are in doubt indeed full of assumptions."

[@maulinux1]

@@phenomenal17playz There is no doubt about the Crucifixion of Jesus by Christians .

[@amazingamazigh6847]

4 Gospels are written by unknown authors with hidden agenda's.

[@phenomenal17playz]

@@maulinux1 really? How about Christians of basidilions and docetism rejected that Jesus' suffering and dying on the cross. There were some early Christians and Gnostics too which denied the Crucifixtion and reality of Jesus. Different christologies were circulating after the ascension of Jesus if you read history.

[@maulinux1]

@@phenomenal17playz I do not judge the faith choices of others. God will judge. You instead? However, for the avoidance of misunderstanding, I am not at all interested in receiving any more attacks on my faith.

[@sinbadelbedour3811]

Mike's rebuttal is very weak and didn't answer major issues that Ali raised... And when he mentions that crucifixion and Resurrection is a fact , he did not provide any historical fat supporting this ...

[@shanebell2514]

Tacitus quotes it in the 1st century.

[@silviucojocaru5539]

Not only Tacitus, but also Flavius Josephus, a Jew historian who, after losing the war against the Romans in 1 st Century, became highly romanized and moved to Rome. Josephus had no reasons to mention cruxifiction. He was Jew and he worked for pagan Roman Emperors in the time of his writing... But he does mention it

[@Vreidyfarm]

I have a genuine question: When Trinitarian Christians pray to the triune god which specific figure takes precedence or flashes up into their imagination? Is it Jesus the son of God or God the Father of Jesus or the Holy Spirit who is neither son nor father and it's not clear if he is an extension of the son or the father or if he's equally shared between them? To which one of the 3 do they address a particular supplication at a particular point in time? Or do they switch from one of the three depending on the situations and the nature of the supplication? Are there some supplications that they'd better address to the son, and some they'd better take up a bit higher to the father? And what's the specialty of the Holy Spirit in this regard? Or do they manage to untie the three in their imagination and make them overlap and merge or fuse in one single figure? What's the best or opportune or necessary occasion for them to do that mental fusion in order to guarantee a favorable answer to a certain prayer that probably needs a more powerful or more integral God to address?

[@whitesteelangle156]

It being squeeze into one being 🤣

[@aminuddin6348]

Vreidy Farm I thought about that too! 😅

[@sacredrider]

Imo both sides had good points, but Dr. Mike failed to realize that historical evidence he is talking about is not an evidence that it was Jesus pbuh was on the cross, nor they come to the sunlight without Christian bias. In this case the Islamic view has the absolute advantage of the part "but it was made to appear so", Old testament supports this view and any other evidence that is presented falls under the category of seeing what was made to appear so. Dr. Ali did the best job he could do, but this debate had a clear answer to the main question: was Jesus Christ pbuh crucified? And the answer is no, it was made to appear so

[@AhmadSammy642]

WOW!! Dr Ataie nailed this argument to the cross, proving that Jesus was not crucified like the common Christian/Catholicism dogma entails! Kudus Dr Ataie, and hard luck Dr Licona in your argument where you used your time to slander the Quran and Dr Ataie's opinions rather than staying on point.

[@ImAbdullah123]

"...Because my father and I are made of the same stuff." Mike Licona

[@muhammadbenjuraij7734]

I can’t believe Mike used the goat story ha ha ha The Quran from the moment each verse was revealed was memorised and has been memorised in every generation until today in an unbroken chain of narration. It’s an established tradition just go to a mosque in Ramadan and you will see it recited from memory one chapter every night for 30 nights! If the uk government burnt every copy of the Quran just the Huffaaz (Quran memorisers) in Bradford could gat together and rewrite the Quran word for word dot for dot from their memory!! As for mikes slander then this crazy irrational faith of Christians is exactly why I rejected Christianity and became a Muslim!

[@shanebell2514]

the quran is human effort, the chanting, the memorising, not a miracle.

[@shanebell2514]

Where is the evidence from 33AD until 610AD of the injil given from allah to isa?

[@aliikram673]

Mike: You are going off topic 😡😡 Also Mike: Goes as off-topic as possible attacking the Quran and talking about his friend who converted to Christianity.

[@johncook19]

Ali was way ahead of Mike Licona, this is not the first time Mike as under performed.

[@2dar2]

Thank you brother Ali. You are so truth.

[@naloub3091]

easy win for Ataie

[@lefronzzedong4871]

saying he won is absolute nonsense -Had no historical evidence valid -Voided every question w theology -misinterpreted the verses of the Bible - no rebuttals AT ALL to any of lincoas arguments Open you’re eyes, Rewatch the video. It was a ridiculous to see Ali debate with him like a little child arguing with a historian... smh 🤦‍♂️

[@travislee1012]

Your just as confused as this donkey. Ali ataie says Jesus was crucified today lol

[@Adv_rider17]

Totally brainwashed what historical evidence do you have to back up 7 century documents zero nothing lop

[@izharcohen4572]

Jesus is not crucified, if jesus was crucified so jesus was false messiah, because messiah shouldn't not died on a cross as a cursed

[@SalahAdiinAyubi]

@@Adv_rider17 the new testament came almost 1500 years after moses, whts your point ?

[@nevlc1845]

and still trinity is his religion even if the truth is lay down in front of him. its better to blind literally than to have blind faith. shamaa israel. the lord is one.

[@beardoggodistruthis]

The 10 Commandments List, Short Form 1,You shall have no other gods before Me. 2,You shall not make idols. 3,You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. 4,Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 5,Honor your father and your mother. 6,You shall not murder. 7,You shall not commit adultery. 8,You shall not steal. 9You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 10,You shall not covet. Jesus kept them all ! your prophet Broke 1, ,4,6,7,8,9,10, who then is a deceiver and false prophet!!!

[@beardoggodistruthis]

@bink bee facts are not opinions ,,The truth hurts i know !

[@beardoggodistruthis]

@bink bee you don't deserve an intelligent response so i will just give you your own ,,as befits your silly statement! B0wel opinions.

[@beardoggodistruthis]

@bink bee you must have forgot that she is his creation! as are we all, ,4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?”( John 2:4 The Greek for Woman does not denote any disrespect.) Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”basically His mum was bugging him! to create wine for the wedding feast!

[@khaledahmed9027]

God bless you Brother Ali .

[@hhakawati]

Just wondering as why Mr Licona never really addressed what happened to the other gospels (the 3 that Ali mentioned and are lost)

[@mokhaking2734]

Mike i like you but tbh ali ataie destroyed you.

[@jdee1100]

Mike's a professional lier. Nothing less!

[@aslanafdzal7459]

Apostasy discussion was really off topic. Well Dr Ataie for such brilliant respond.

[@intriguing2966]

Amazing Ali, really impressive!

[@True-Messages-Foundation]

Alhamdulillah robil aalamin. Islam is the way

[@emekonen]

Licona opens by setting the terms of the debate without getting agreement from Ataie, then complains when Ataie does not focus on what Licona wants him to. These are religions and you dont want to talk about theology at all?

[@mikeyounes2756]

Mr licona if you and i worked for someone and that boss paid us the same salary expected the same work same schedule from both of us, But I always show up late I don't complete my work and I'm not following the rules of work while you are always on time and follow all the rules and complete all your work. So the boss decides instead of firing me who's a very bad employee he decides to fire you a very good employee so I can keep my job. What would you think of that boss Mr licona? That's christianty in a nutshell good luck 👍

[@sacredrider]

Holy shit this took a real 180 degree turn

[@mikeyounes2756]

@@sacredrider care to elaborate further?

[@sacredrider]

@@mikeyounes2756 I mean I liked your comment🙂

[@mikeyounes2756]

@@sacredrider thanks that's Christianity and what it teaches, Islam teaches that God doesn't punish an innocent person for a guilty person.

[@Sg190th]

@@mikeyounes2756 You have a good head on your shoulders.

[@khanofcaledonia6413]

The christian debator said in the end "My father and I are made of same stuff, that's why they understood it was blasphemy and that's why they put him to death." So was Jesus crucified due to his claim of divinity or because he was a sacrificial lamb? This whole story of preplanned sacrifice has so many holes and the events that happened at that time don't add up to this preplanned sacrifice. So, if Jesus knew that he was a sacrificial lamb then he would have never said, "remove this cup from me" and then later calling to God asking him "why have you foresaken me(as if there was an agreement to save him)"? (His call was answered and God saved him and lifted him away before he died. That's why he is alive. Also he was in the tomb alive like Jonah) A preplanned sacrifice should have been done say by angels with a major announcement, huge festivities and grandeur. Also the timing should have been either at the time of Adam (preferebly in paradise) or on the day of resurrection where Jesus should be sacrificed in front of all the humanity with an announcement that now all of our sins are forgiven (including that of Hitler and the like). It just doesn't make sense. Crucification is all a made up story.

[@mezm9239]

Christianity is totally losing in persuading people to believe their concept on theology. It doesn't make sense not can they prove it using the old testament. In this debate, Mike mentions why he doesn't believe in the Qur'an but Ali manages to show many flaws in the new testament but this doesn't raise questions in Mike's mind. Mike is not being true to himself.

[@saidsaidthis162]

Dear Mike, Can you have a discussion on the apostleshipness of Paul the Saul. That would be enlightening, thank you! Salaam Aleikum.

[@issahawa493]

Ali has a lot of knowledge god bless him he know the Bible very well

[@the5pointsconglomoratemedi541]

I feel like Dr.Atai should have started with the second part of his debate first with historical argument and how Flavius was probably fabricated and interprolated by Christians

[@irwankuya]

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU. AWAY FROM ME, YOU EVILDOERS !!' Matthew 7:21 -> "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

[@MukhtarAli-tn4bk]

Thank you so much bro

[@samuelimmanuel718]

irwankuya You sound like Devil quoting the Psalm to Jesus Christ!! Strange...you refute the Bible and then quote from it support your view. Read the entire chapter what Jesus Christ meant by that: Jesus Christ also claimed the following: ** Jesus preached about himself, and it made people angry. ** He made sure that his disciples knew who he was (Matthew 16:13-17). **He talked as if he were the judge of the entire world (Matthew 10:32; 7:21-23). ** He talked as if everyone had to obey him just as they obeyed God (Matthew 7:25-29). **He claimed the authority to forgive sins that were against God (Matthew. 9:2-6). **He claimed to know what the Holy Spirit would do (Matthew 10:20). **Jesus claimed to know how cities would fare in the judgement (Matthew 12:41-42; 11:20-24). **He said it was worse to reject him than to commit the sins of Sodom (Matthew 11:24). **He claimed to know more about God than anyone else (Matthew 11:27). **He claimed to be more important than the Temple of God (Matthew 12:6). ** He claimed to have divine authority over the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8). ** He promised his disciples heavenly rewards (Matthew 16:19). ** He said that devotion to himself was more important than life itself (Matthew 16:25-27). **He claimed that he would return with the glory of God (Matthew 16:27). ** He gave enormous authority to his disciples which means that he himself had even greater authority (Matthew 18:18). ** He claims to have all authority and have power everywhere (Matthew 18:20; 28:28). **He claimed He is the one who can let them enter the Kingdom of God. ** Jesus Christ claimed that his life would ransom everyone else, as if He were worth more than everyone else put together. (Matthew 20:28). ** He claimed that his blood would institute a new covenant between God and humans (Matthew 26:28). ** He quoted a Psalm about God as if it applied to himself (Matthew 21:16). **He claimed to have the power to send angels throughput the world (Matthew 24:31). ** He said his words were infallible and eternal (Matthew 24:35).

[@irwankuya]

@@samuelimmanuel718 Matthew 23:33 You snakes! You children of snakes! How will you be able to escape the judgment of hell?

[@samuelimmanuel718]

@@irwankuya You are quoting the verses Ahmed Deedat the arrogant anti-Christ quoted. Watch his end. Allah forsook him just like he forsook Mohmd to poisoned mutton. This arrogant man challengened that the True God will silence the liars. Study the life. Who was silenced by the True Living God? Do not play with Christ Jesus. You have to stand before Him as the righteous Judge. Wait for the day.

[@irwankuya]

@@samuelimmanuel718 Luke 19:27 Bring my enemies before me and slay them

[@LegitDreamer96]

attack mode as soon you start loosing debate and are presented with undeniable facts and evidences the truth truly hurts

[@tannyahmed5160]

Mike licona debated Bart Ehrman and got made to look really stupid and then he put the debate on his own channel to show his own stupidity. This man is totally shameless and will always act like he wins even wen uts blatantly obvious he lost

[@hamzaTVNetwork]

Don’t be so nasty instead pray for him that Allah Guides him

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

Pray for the Lord Jesus Christ to be his rock against the bullying he receives on the Internet.

[@mohammedsiddiqui1389]

Mr licona seems to have no clue about the fact that Prophet Mohammed Swt is the most historically recorded with every detail of his personal and public life meticulously recorded. Also his proving the Quran wrong with his faulty logic is quite laughable.

[@PessiTheFraud]

​@@mohammedsiddiqui1389source?

[@PessiTheFraud]

​@@hamzaTVNetworkAllah is not real

[@Leo-wy1by]

It’s ironic that you say around 1:43:21-1:43:28 that you have to interpret the vague according to the clear statements, yet Christianity is literally based on the complete opposite; where you interpret the vague passages & then interpret the clear passages using the interpretation from the vague passage you chose.

[@eddyqwam1647]

Ali, you are wonderful

[@GUULLIVER]

I would love to see Dr Mike Licona debate Rabbi Tovia Singer on Crucifixion and the relationship between the Old and New Testaments as claimed by the NT and Christians.

[@MohamedShou]

I’ve really noticed that Christians *especially Church Fathers* past and present use Greek language and ideology to interpret their New Testament which is really strange? That’s like if a orthodox rabbi uses Greek or Latin language and ideology to interpret the Torah or the Muslim ulama using ancient Persian or Cantonese language and ideology to interpret the Quran haha

[@sophiapark8859]

Most of the New Testament was originally written in Greek! I think that is why it is so common for them to go back to the Greek texts.

[@MohamedShou]

@@sophiapark8859 which I still find strange when Jesus and his disciples never spoke Greek day to day haha. Imagine if the Quran was translated to Persian or Coptic and that became the standard Quran for centuries Subhanallah. Thank Allah for preserving the Qur’an and the Arabic language

[@beniwa2700]

@@MohamedShou Most Disciples of Jesus spoke Greek

[@youngwolf869]

@@beniwa2700 I would like see some evidence for that claim.

[@beniwa2700]

@@youngwolf869 I would like to see Evidence that Issa is Jesus in the Arabic language

[@aaronharun1394H]

If two people gave two different accounts of the same thing contradicting each other, then at least one of them is wrong or inaccurate. 1. There are christians who claim Jesus is God. 2. There are christians who claim Jesus is son of God and not God. 3. There are christians who claim Jesus is both God and son of God. 4. There are christians who believe Jesus is a man (not God, not son of God) Which is accurate? These are all major contradictions in the religion. Different factions occured since after the time of Jesus. The Quran is a Revelation from God and is the Criterion over the current bible(s). It consists of message for mankind including to Jews, Christians and polytheists. Message for mankind include warning mankind of their errors. Chosen messengers of God were sent by God throughout history to warn their communities of their errors. Noah and Abraham were messengers of God who were sent to warn their communities of their errors of idolatry and the consequences of Hellfire. Idolatry is a grave error and an unforgivable sin. The only way is to repent and leave that believe and practise. Muhammad was also sent to warn the arab pagans at the time of their errors of idolatry. As an ensuing messenger who is also the final messenger chosen after Jesus, Muhammad was also sent to warn the Christians of their error of believing Jesus is God and the consequences of Hellfire. In the gospels, it is mentioned that Jesus was sent. Jesus was a human messenger of God among many human messengers of God that were sent throughout history. The human messengers of God were chosen from humans and were sent to convey message to other humans. The one God who sent Jesus is the same one God who sent Noah is the same one God who sent Abraham is the same one God who sent Moses. Jesus did not send Jesus. The one God sent Jesus. The one God is not Jesus. The one God is the most High and the one who sends, not someone who is sent. Peace.

[@bambam-hi9wj]

mike licona will make a good fox new reporter

[@anonamos3287]

Wow using fear of Allah as a bad thing? That's why Christi-anity is saying the opposite of the truth and is actually anti-christ. Do Christian's actually use this as a claim they won the debate????? Just show how lost they really are.

[@shanebell2514]

Where is the evidence from 33AD until 610AD of the injil given from allah to isa?

[@VandalIO]

1:21:15 how do you judge truth mike ? Simple … message needs to be consistent and shouldn’t contradict New Testament books contradict each other .. the message of bible is not consistent ! Old Testament talks about 1 non triune god (no Jew thought god was triune) New Testament is assumed to be talking about triune god NT has four gospels each containing different endings of Jesus ! NT gives conflicting genealogies of Jesus So if you believe in truth ! How do you genuinely honestly reconcile bible contradiction to be true? To honestly be on side of the truth ask yourself .. is god the author of contradiction or confusion ?

[@mohammeds.hegazy9299]

Great debate by Ali … academic, rich and strong discussion supported by clear and strong proofs from the Old and New Testaments including quotes from the original languages … I was expecting better argument from Mike supports by proofs rather than hand waving discussion … and as a general rule audience decide who won the debate and not one of the debaters (embarrassing)

[@racfat1]

woaw ian stunned by the knowledge of Ali, Mike seems like a child her.

[@wordisbond007]

When we get dates for the gospels does it mean that it’s the earliest copy we have or for a fact that it’s first written on that date?

[@markstamper1]

Earliest copies I would assume. The dates they are written are debated amongst scholars. But I could be wrong. Good question.

[@kutsc3792]

Christian logic amazes me.

[@lizicadumitru9683]

This debate went downhill fast..geez 🙄. I'm half way through it and don't even want to finish it. Was hoping Mike wouldn't take to bait Ali laid down..maybe he'll get back on track.

[@XavierGascon-hd5ie]

Mr. Licona I commend you for keeping this video up but please know in 2023 you did not win for a simple fact... You attacked Dr. Ali and made it personal. As soon as you do that you lose the argument. Dr. Ali did not attack you but merely used your text book to show how it contradicts itself. We submit only to God and God has no equal.

[@NisarKhan-fk4rq]

How can Christians believe in 1 God and then see the son coming with his father on the last day??? I My wife used to be a Christian and she couldn't believe that God was a Man because the bible is full of passages saying that God is not a Man or the son of man, read Job 25:3 and what does it mean to you

[@Watermelon-dj8be]

God is not a man who lies which means humans lie God doesn’t. Can you give me one reason why you call Jesus as messiah??

[@tokasab8684]

@@Watermelon-dj8be The first reason is that the Qur’an said that he is the Messiah. This alone is sufficient. We do not ask why the Qur’an said that Isaac was a prophet, for example, or why Michael, a angel , the Qur’an, addresses people who know the meaning of these words. Secondly, from the Qur’an itself, Jesus, the son of Mary, is the last of the prophets of the Children of Israel, and he raises the dead and heals the sick with God’s permission. God has helped him over his enemies and helped him with the angels as prophesied by the psalms, and he raised him and he did not die yet, and everyone will believe in him upon his return. From the hadith, he is a king who will reign from the Holy Land for forty years This is the definition of Messiah among the Jews Now why do you believe that he is God?

[@Watermelon-dj8be]

@@tokasab8684 moron Daniel 7:13-14 is Job of messiah. You’re too intelligent cuz you’re a comparing a human to angel. You don’t know how many angels are there. He’s a king mentioned in Hadith ?? Gimme the verse. Btw if you’re alive then Jesus gonna wipe every Muslim nation who wants to wipe Israel out of earth in 2028 as mentioned in bible. You don’t know the meaning of messiah yet demonic quran won’t tell anything about messiah yet you call Jesus as messiah wth. And also learn about NWO cuz it’s mentioned in bible not in demonic quran

[@theguyver4934]

There are many christians who believe that jesus PBUH was only a human being

[@HopeBloomMusic]

"Rogue, little tiny factions" took over an entire country...

[@Tylermichealmusic]

Wow... this is very interesting, and intriguing. Praise GOD. 🙏🏽🦍

[@tmk5]

Surprised to see full house there. How much the youth in the West still do care about these sort of dialogues. In my country , Pakistan, only guys from the religious schools take interest in these sort of discussion and they are never more than one to two dozens. Never university or college students ever interested in these types of discussions.

[@gmail.commmmmmmmmmmmm]

That means majority the citizens of your country have strong believe and faith of their religion (islam). Thus make this kind of debate uninteresting. Meanwhile in the west, majority people there are not muslims. And informations nowadays are getting easier to receive, to research, to look after the truth about any religions on earth, including Islam. There are no more missionary to deceive people about lies of islam (ex : violence, sex, misogyny, etc) like it used to be before internet came. Since islam is the most logica relgion, that is not only to believe, but also giving them proof/evidence of what islam proclaim, which is the Holy Quran. Unlike Bible , quran has no mistakes, no errors, no contradictions, no hate, no misogyny, no pornography, etc. and its contains are backed up by scientific evidence which they recently discovered, where it was provisioned by the Author of the Quran. So it is not a surprise thing that many people there get interested to attend this kind of meeting because they wanna know the truth. Even until today, islam is growing massively in the west. Many muslim political party born in west in the past 20 years. Even the mayor of london is a muslim. So yea, that should give you the picture of whats going on.

[@hashmihere6379]

Mike always set the Rule of the debate by coming first and set the Rule according to his own strong sides and doesn't see the internal evidence and discrepancies.. THAT'S unfair, evidence of resurrection or anything can be obtained from multiple approaches...

[@adminomhfoz1908]

George Flyod would argue he doesn't even have the freedom to breathe

[@MohamedShou]

What?

[@antoinelawrence9052]

What does George floyd have to with this and what you said was uncalled for Sir.

[@huskee7684]

Lmfao this is fucking hilarious

[@lakerstekkenn]

These Christians are running around claiming Isaiah 53 is about Jesus but it's really about Jeremiah and he even quoted the text to fulfill this prophecy. Also Isaiah chapter 53 says this person Jeremiah will see his seed or biological children and Jeremiah had children and Jesus didn't. Isaiah 53 is about Jeremiah and not about Jesus dying for everyone's sins. Jeremiah 11:19 I had been like a gentle lamb led to the slaughter; I did not realize that they had plotted against me, saying, "Let us destroy the tree and its fruit; let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name be remembered no more." Isaiah 53 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. This is a prophecy about Jeremiah and the Christian preachers and scholars like James White and others know this and yet they lie to everyone. The Plot Against Jeremiah (Psalm 70:1-5; Psalm 141:1-10; Jeremiah 18:18-23) 18And the LORD informed me, so I knew. Then You showed me their deeds. 19For I was like a gentle lamb led to slaughter; I did not know that they had plotted against me: “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit; let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name will be remembered no more.” 20But, O LORD of Hosts, who judges righteously, who tests the heart and mind, let me see Your vengeance upon them, for I have committed my cause to You. 21Therefore, this is what the LORD says concerning the people of Anathoth who are seeking your life and saying, “You must not prophesy in the name of the LORD, or you will die by our hand.” 22So this is what the LORD of Hosts says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23There will be no remnant, for I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.” The Bible says the Messiah is to be saved.

[@Mukeet-Khan]

Yeah Christians selectively choose supposed ambiguous prophecies while ignoring clear ones. Plus, they put false prophecies on the lips of Jesus (PBUH) that would make him a false prophet.

[@mikerevs34]

@Handy Man Revelation- another anonymously written, late canonization of some mad-mans dream. Doesn't hold water. Case closed.

[@lakerstekkenn]

@Handy Man Bart Ehrman says Pilate pardoning a prisoner is a Historical lie, because Pilate would never release a Government Terrorist who killed Roman soldiers for a innocent man in Jesus, this is nonsense and a Historical forgery and not factual. Pilate Released Barabbas. Really?? For starters, what evidence is there that Pilate ever released a prisoner to the Jewish crowd because they wanted him to do so, or because he wanted to behave kindly toward them during their festival ? Apart from the Gospels, there is none at all. These are enough, though, to show us the basic character of Pilate, his attitude to the Jews that he ruled, and his basic approach to Jewish sensitivities. The short story is that he was a brutal, ruthless ruler with no concerns at all for what the people he governed thought about him or his policies. He was violent, mean-spirited, and hard-headed. He used his soldiers as thugs to beat the people into submission, and he ruled Judea with an iron fist. Not only do we have no record of him releasing prisoners to them once a year, or ever. Knowing what we know about him, it seems completely implausible. I should point out that we don’t have any evidence of any Roman governor, anywhere, in any of the provinces, having any such policy. And thinking about the alleged facts of the case for a second, how could there be such a policy? Barabbas in this account is not just a murderer, he is an insurrectionist. If he was involved with an insurrection, that means he engaged in an armed attempt to overthrow Roman rule. If he murdered during the insurrection, he almost certainly would have murdered a Roman soldier or someone who collaborated with the Romans. Are we supposed to believe that the ruthless, iron-fisted Pilate would release a dangerous enemy of the state because the Jewish crowd would have liked him to do so? What did Romans do with insurrectionists? Did they set them free so they could engage in more armed guerilla warfare? Would any ruling authority do this? Of course not. Would the Romans? Actually we know what they did with insurrectionists. They crucified them. ehrmanblog.org/pilate-released-barabbas-really/ Bart does not agree with the history of the crucifixion and I posted the evidence he's only speaking upon his limited knowledge of the events otherwise he contradicts himself by stating that Pilate pardoning Jesus Barabbas meaning Jesus son of the Father wasn't historical and a lie inserted in the Gospels to prove that Jesus was crucified instead of the Government Terrorist assassin rebel being let go free, according to Bart this is laughable and false story and not remotely historical and this is also the statement of the Christian scholars themselves. Bart just spoke his previous statements before he understood that the history of Pilate pardoning Jesus Barabbas wasn't historical at all according to Christian Scholars. If Bart rejects the pardoning of Jesus Barabbas by Pilate and this isn't historical and Jesus was found innocent by Pilate then what do you think took place ? Jesus was set free and Jesus Barabbas was actually crucified because in no court of law in any century is the Government going to free a captured terrorist government rebel just to please a crowd using a vote and kill an innocent man, it's illogical and silly and if anybody has the nerve to even suggest this it's to be taken seriously. Bart either wasn't aware of this evidence when he made his statements and after backtracked them, because it's not possible to now believe that Pilate would free a government terrorist and crucify an innocent man over a lie about a made up pardoning and prisoner. Christians tried to play down Jesus Barabbas crimes and delete his name Jesus and only placed Barabbas and took out Jesus his real name. This government terrorist was really names Jesus and Barabbas was a because Barabbas means son of the Father. So Jesus Barabbas becomes maybe a common thief criminal and not an actual government terrorist assassin killing Roman soldiers and not just some criminal a petty thief that was set free, but a known captured government rebel terrorist assassin. Jesus son of the Father the Messiah was a nobody who was innocent and didn't bother anybody and Pilate found him innocent NOT GUILTY so freedom was the only opinion. The Biblical Gospel story are forgeries and this proves because there's no need to manufacturer a false historical pardoning by Pilate and the Jews on the Passover just to prove that Jesus was killed unless Jesus wasn't killed and your manufacturing history to change Jesus into a pagan human sacrifice that was resurrected thus your hero becomes a godman killed and conquering death becoming a super god/man. This is a lie made up and not remotely historical in anyway Pilate didn't pardon anybody let alone a terrorist assassin government rebel to kill again and overthrow Pilate.

[@lakerstekkenn]

@Handy Man Revelation says that Jesus was Dead and now he's existing the Greek word ginomai to come into being, to happen, to become to exist and now I live forever and ever. Original Word: γίνομαι Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: ginomai Phonetic Spelling: (ghin'-om-ahee) Definition: to come into being, to happen, to become Usage: I come into being, am born, become, come about, happen. Jesus is resurrected in the book of Revelation at the resurrection because why would he be saying that he was dead and now he exist and lives forever, just like everyone else because Jesus was supposedly already alive and has already been living forever, he's supposedly Yahweh and he already supposedly appeared to everyone announcing his early resurrection, but in Revelation he's announcing that he was dead and now he's created and existing forever like it's new and it didn't happen already. I was dead (meaning recently and see look at me) I am alive (I became I exist) living forever and I have the keys of heaven and hell (meaning he has the authority to condemn people by baring witnesses against them. Jesus is saying look I used to be dead and look I am living forever and have the power to condemn people. Basic English Translation And I was dead, and see, I am living for ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hell. Webster's Revision I was use to live and was dead and behold (I exist ginomai to come into being) alive for evermore. I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. This whole time according to Christians Jesus is already living ruling and controlling everything in the universe and he's claiming that he has been dead and now exist resurrected living forevermore acting like he just woke up from a coma. Now behold look I am alive Greek idou, behold, which especially calls attention. Jesus I was dead and I exist behold look at me, I am alive and living forever. idou Strong's Concordance idou: look, behold Original Word: ἰδού Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: idou Phonetic Spelling: (id-oo') Definition: look, behold Usage: See! Lo! Behold! Look!. This proves that Jesus wasn't resurrected after he died and Yahweh took him up like the Qur'an says taking his spirit from him and then raising him up, but on the day of resurrection he's created alive and now living forever.

[@lakerstekkenn]

@J M The Church were writing the Gospels and fulfilling Old Testament Scriptures thinking that they were speaking about Jesus without understanding the context and they used Isaiah 53 and general statement about prophet's being killed or the attempted killing and suffering also about wars and their victory and enjoying the spoils of this victory the context also speaks about certain prophet =s being sent to prison and some having families children, this is the context. Isaiah: 53 This is a reference to prophets that are killed and rejected by their people and bore their peoples transgressions sinful behavior because they were rejected or were wounded or bruised and some killed these prophets. Showing how the people rejected these prophets doesn't mean they died for your sins. Let's go over it together because your understanding if way off. Isaiah 53 We see the prophets grow before our very eyes these prophets are normal regular human beings . 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. They rejected these prophets and despised them. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. These prophets took the peoples punishment suffering because they thought God was punishing them for being a false prophet, so they bore these unbelievers transgressions sinful rejecting behavior. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. These prophets were wounded because of our rejection transgressions and some were only bruised wounded but don't die and some are killed and we are healed because we follow these prophet's who were rejected bruised and even killed because of their peoples rejection of guidance to save them. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. What does it mean we are like sheep gone astray ? those that are lost and need repentance and not those that are guided these are not lost sheep. Each of us has turned out our own ways sinful ways, this isn't speaking about the righteous but the sinners. When these people murdered and rejected these prophets, these prophets being rejected and bruised and wounded and some killed, the Lord by choosing them put our sins on these righteous prophets, the sins of rejection murder and rebellion, these prophet's bore our punishment rebellion, but were innocent. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. That's why Jeremiah quotes this scripture because he's fulfilling this prophecy about the rejected prophets. Some are taken to prison and some are killed taken from the land of the living and some survive. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. Some are killed with the wicked and buried with them and some are killed by the rich people and these prophets, some do no violence, but some do violence. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. It's the will of God that these prophets are rejected wounded bruised and some killed and the prophecy goes on about some prophets will have children and some will survive and their lives are extended and will prosper. 10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. God's righteous servants justify many but not all follow them and believe . 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Some Messengers prophets Kings divide the riches spoils with the people David Muhammad and Moses and others. Unless Jesus is dividing the spoils of paradise with the believers hows this fitting Jesus as a fulfillment because according to you, Jesus is your god and wouldn't need to divide the spoils with others. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. There's no death and resurrection in the whole chapter but some prophets die and some see their families while others lives are extended and others don't make it and their graves are with the wicked because they are considered false prophets and some are killed by the rich John the Baptist and others are bruised and some wounded while others died. Notice how this prophecy statement covers every prophet including Muhammad Moses and Jeremiah also Jesus who's life was extended and saved although he didn't have children he was despised and rejected and bruised but wasn't killed, Jeremiah fulfilled this prophecy and even quotes the words and Jesus although rejected also fulfilled this prophecy, but he was one of the prophets, that were saved, like King David also.