Debunking the SawStop Myth

[@StumpyNubs]

READ BEFORE COMMENTING: Regarding comments about your body not "grounding" because you have shoes on... "Grounding" is not a literal term. Your car is full of parts that must be "grounded", yet the rubber tires keep it off the literal ground. Just as the mass of the engine block and frame serve to "ground" the car, here I mean your body is large enough to dissipate enough of the low voltage charge on the blade and trigger the system. Yes, the term is not TECHNICALLY correct, but it is commonly used that way.

[@criticallook1352]

I find it funny that a youtube channel name *Stumpy Nubs* is dispelling myths about *SawStop®.* :

[@Kleinalrik]

Actually it is technically correct. Bear in mind it is alternate current, not direct current we are dealing with. And for alternate current, small gaps inbetween two conductive parts is not an absolute barrier. Consider your body and the ground as two sides of a capacitor. Not the best performing nor the most efficient one but still... yeah technically a capacitor. Two conductive parts with a - more or less tiny - gap inbetween. And capacitor reacts to AC like... yes you guessed it, a conductor. Due to the fact that this "capacitor" made of body, thick rubber sole and shop floor is a pretty lousy capacitor, the conductivness and the recurring current is rather low, but... there IS a current, and it is sufficient to trigger the sawstop. It's the same principle that makes your phase tester work. You don't have to put off your shoes to make the bulb glow. This thing becomes more interesting, when your body is floating in midair. I'm curious to know, if the additional effect you described is sufficient to trigger the switch (every mass is capable of collecting a certain amount of current, the more mass, the more current).

[@ElTurbinado]

Kleinalrik lol really? as a reply to *this* comment? 😂🤦‍♂️

[@criticallook1352]

+Kleinalrik There is greater mass on Sundays. :

[@ElTurbinado]

Critical Look wanna hear a pun about paper? never mind... it's tearable.

[@wisenber]

I have a friend that has a hot dog cutting business and he said SawStops are worthless.

[@joew694]

This should have more "thumbs" up. This made me laugh out loud

[@godlyvex5543]

obviously fake. sawstops are useful, even when cutting hot dogs. they keep your hands safe.

[@YosemiteJohn]

Oh, okay it took me a minute...

[@juancabrera-ru9jx]

Jesus that made me laugh so hard

[@oo1721]

@@joew694 all the thumbs have been cut off

[@UnitSe7en]

"Trusting your fingers to a computer in a dusty workshop is a bad idea." Yeah, that's why you don't trust your fingers to a computer. You must engage your brain. The safety device isn't there so that you can operate your saw without regard for your own safety.

[@normanicusinvictus7416]

Honestly couldn't agree more. Sawstop isn't the first line of defense, it's the last. Crap happens, and one more barrier between you and a trip to the hospital is welcomed, but don't rely on those machines for safety. It's the same thing with cars. More safety features, more accidents.

[@N0d4chi]

Youre right. Human nature in the paradox of safety however is omnipresent. If something is made more safe, some idiots will take it to more extremes "cause its safe" xD

[@genseven4616]

you mean me and the boys can't get drunk and cut wood on a sawstop? Lame

[@normanicusinvictus7416]

@@genseven4616 I mean, I'm not going to tell you what *not* to do.

[@Scotch20]

Sure you shouldn't put your hand to the blade because "it's safe". Being careful is a damn good idea whether you have a safety net or not. Maybe you'll be more careful if you know the safety net isn't there, but that doesn't outweigh the value of having a safety net. The net is useful because no matter how good you are, no matter how careful, _the possibility for human error can never be eliminated_. As well, you can do tens of thousands of cuts, it only takes one mistake. As far as idiots who will take it to more extremes "cause its safe" goes: Reckless fools are reckless fools, they're probably going to be reckless fools whether they have a Sawstop or not, that's how I see it.

[@thesaint8400]

I've been cutting my hotdogs for years with a table saws. Honestly, SawStop is the WORST for this. Don't buy it if you want to even THINK about cutting meat.

[@memesfromdeepspace1075]

Thanks for laugh

[@angrygingerboss]

did you just copy the top comment from two years ago. am i calling you out on this a year later. yes and yes

[@bello5733]

Me: Imma go to sleep now KZbin Algorithm: Do you want to watch someone argue about saws? Me: Aight

[@jimmy5F]

Yes, have a good sleep. I hope you don't have to take pain killers for phantom limb pain.

[@thomasbrueckner609]

My cabinet maker's shop has a 3HP SawStop and I, as a former finish carpenter in my 20s, have a key to it. Last year, I was using his SawStop to rip a piece of African burl that Cooks Woods had sealed in wax. About a third of the way through the piece (with my fingers FAR from the blade), the stop engaged and the blade disappeared into the body of the table. It startled the crap out of me because it was LOUD and instantaneous-VERY impressive-wherefore I'm a fan. Nevertheless, after much deliberation--and in part due to Jim's review of it-I just ordered a 3HP Harvey Alpha table saw with the Shark S-12S overhead dust collection and the amazing Big Eye rip fence system. Jim's review of the Harvey COMPASS MG-36Pro miter gauge (which comes with the saw as standard equipment) was also a big influence on my decision, as I do segmented bowl turning with exotic hardwoods, where a 1/4-degree error, compounded over anything more than 16 segments (32 cuts), can result in a huge 8° gap during glue-up. All-in-all, I've come to believe that Harvey simply makes a qualitatively better table saw, with incredibly accurate components across the board, features that the average contractor or cabinet shop may not require, but which are a huge improvement over SawStop, Powermatic, Delta, etc. Finally, the other reason that I decided against spending the extra money on the safety of SawStop is a logical one, in that I use my 10" Makita compound power miter box, 14" 2HP lathe, Delta scroll saw, Laguna 1412 band saw, and dozens of dangerous handheld power tools every weekend-and NONE of them have a safety stop, yet I've never lost a digit to any of them in over 50 years of woodworking. I also know a dozen local 60-95 year-old craftsmen/guildsmen who, while they're impressed with the SawStop concept, still use the 100 year-old hand-me-down industrial beasts their grandfathers used as young men in the 1920s because, as they put it, "they just don't make 'em like that anymore...", and all of them (like their fathers and grandfathers before them) still have all of their fingers. ...In summary, I LOVE the concept, have even seen it work first-hand, but have chosen what for me is a superior all-around table saw elsewhere. Yes, I've chosen accuracy over safety, and will happily take responsibility for my own fingers-just like all those SawStop owners do with all their other shop tools. Thank you, Jim, for the most articulate KZbin woodworking site on the internet. You're always balanced, honest, and informative and you never disappoint. TB.

[@aesteticar8984]

I never even chopped anything with an axe let alone the damn table saw, but this was a great video, the dude is so calm and good at explaining!

[@dormantrabbits]

At first glance, I thought he was standing in a gun store

[@JayDee-xj9lu]

No, it's just a plane [plain] shop.

[@leslieberkowitz2753]

Hi. I bought my Sawstop Jobsite last year. The second time I used it, the brake activated after I switched on the saw before I even started to make a cut. I am still very happy to know that my surgeon’s hands are protected but have, of course, no explanation for what happened. Neither did the technician who replaced the cartridge. Love your vids. Many thanks. Les Berkowitz Johannesburg South Africa

[@themakerbarn8777]

I have had many tablesaws over the years. A Powermatic 66, Unisaw, and currently a Grizzly 1023. I bought a Sawstop Industrial for our makerspace. We have been using that saw for about 3 years. We have had 3 instances where the cartridge triggered for no apparent reason. We have a surveillance camera above the SawStop, and in all three instances we were able to confirm the system triggered for no reason. In one instance, the operator turned on the saw and had not even started feeding material when it triggered. We do not allow any metal to be cut in the saw at any time, so it wasn't a left over chip that set it off. In all three cases, SawStop would not replace the cartridge under warranty. It was probably a faulty series of cartridges because we have not had another incident in two years. The dust collection system is inadequate. Dust is only collected from the shroud around the blade. We have had problems with dust getting into the bevel gears that raise and lower the blade, jamming the blade height adjustment. I have also seen this problem on the Professional model. The SawStop sensor measures the complex impedance of the blade assembly. If something of sufficient mass and conductivity touches the blade while it is spinning, the system will trigger. The object does not need to be grounded. Of all the saws I've owned, I prefer the Grizzly. Was the $4000 SawStop a bad choice for the makerspace? No, not at all. We have never had an accident, but if we did, I do not want to explain to a jury that we could have bought a SawStop, but it was too expensive. Perhaps a chicken-out move, but a good business decision.

[@simclardy1]

Your right about the grounding. It works on capacitance. Most people wear rubber shoes so they are not grounded. Unless you are touching your table. But we know you don't have to be holding the table for the break to work. Its too bad the company did not back up the product. I like the saw stop and may buy one but i hate to hear this.

[@GarrettMoffitt]

I would get a meter on the power to the saw and watch for drift, or spikes. The more complex an electrical system is, the more sensitive it is to the quality of power coming into it. I'e seen some wacky think start to happen with systems have bad power. Including a computer that piked up AM radio. Peace.

[@I_M_Nonno]

It's too expensive? Try an Emergency Room visit and a few hours with a hand surgeon!

[@davidcunningham8319]

Or a life with no fingers!

[@btdga]

Or don't stick your hand in the blade. Your argument assumes that you WILL injure yourself and require surgery if you don't use a sawstop. That simply isn't true. Too bad James didn't put this on his list of myths.

[@toxeia]

@@btdga the number of videos he's done on proper technique to avoid putting your body on that blade suggests it's a common enough accident that you shouldn't risk it. But why bother having insurance, it's not like you'll ever get into an accident if you're careful.

[@TheLunnyBear]

@@btdga His argument doesn't assume that at all.

[@TheEveryMaker]

@@btdga I know a lot of woodworkers who have been using table saws for years and have all their fingers. I also know a lot who have cut off the tips or even all of their fingers. Hell, even Jimmy Diresta cut off his pinky, which they were able to sew back on. All it takes is a moment of distraction or something to go wrong with the saw you've never experienced before for disaster to happen. Most American's have never been in a car accident, yet we are still required to have car insurance, just in case. That's all the saw stop is, is a just in case. I don't have one, but if I ever can, I will. I'd rather have the insurance and not need it.

[@tomr3422]

as a person that uses a lot of reclaimed material and refurbishes 1900's trolley cars I have been using a SawStop table saw for 7 years and have had a 23ga nail set off the brake, it destroyed the blade (not a cheap one) the cartridge was $65 and the blade was $30, the alternative could have cost much more $100 doesn't even cover walking into the emergency room.

[@NigelHeads]

I don’t know why I’m here I don’t even use saws but I subscribed and liked because this is quality content no matter how you slice it

[@douglasjones6248]

I was working on a 5hp industrial SawStop when my finger contacted the blade. I did not even need a band-aid. However, when I ran my finger into my Craftsman saw. Well I needed a lot more than a band-aid. Buy one. It works. And it is a very well made saw to boot

[@toddstarr9862]

I know this is an old post; but if you've twice put your digits into a table saw blade then you might want to reconsider whether you're qualified to be using the tool.

[@matthirn7858]

Thank you for your informative video. I used a SawStop for several years and yes, I did catch a finger with the blade. I did get more than a very minor nick, but a band aid was sufficient to treat the wound. I think that I may have poorer conductivity in my fingers due to scaring and reduced innervation. I actually have a couple of small spots on a few fingers that will not easily trigger the saw's activation light. My own experiments showed that using hand lotion made those spots conductive. Just a tip that some of your users may find useful. Regarding accidental triggering of the mechanism, I have heard of it happening when cutting mirror backed plastic. It makes sense to turn the system off when cutting something that may be conductive. About the continued use of the saw blade after an incident, I personally would not recommend it. The loss of one blade is hardly a cost not worth bearing for the sake of safety. My blade suffered the removal of one of the carbide cutting teeth from its run in with the emergency stop. If the force was serious enough to remove that tip, why risk further injury by returning a blade to service that has been subjected to abuse that it was not intended to endure? These are my thoughts and experiences with SawStop. Thank you again for another informative video.

[@rickwilson478]

Thanks for your comment. I've heard that as you age the conductivity in your fingers lessens slightly. This was referenced to using touch screens. The lotion suggestion seems to me to make sense and just the action of applying lotion should stimulate more blood circulation and conductivity at fingertips??

[@matthirn7858]

@@rickwilson478 I suspect that over exposure to cold in my youth and my US Army Basic Training exposure is the primary reason for the neuropathy I now experience, but these old fingers have seen plenty of use and injury in my lifetime. I am hoping that keeping hands moisturized with lotion is a helpful suggestion for others. Thanks for your response.

[@ejmarkle60]

I've been using a Sawstop saw for about 6 months now. I didn't purchase it personally, my employer did. That being said we watched countless videos on people testing the stop feature and one KZbinr in general was able to get an 1/8" deep cut into a hotdog and that was the deepest I've seen it go. I also know that per recommendations from Sawstop that you can cut pressure treated lumber but they recommend shutting off the safety feature with the included key on the control panel because it could potentially trigger the safety stop feature

[@ericrhinehart5434]

I've been on the fence ... probably going to spring for a SawStop after listening to this. If only because I have grandkids that will want to get involved soon.

[@joshuakalaniparks9084]

My last boss would always seem to hate any of my "safety ideas" about anything... Once even an argument, he suggested I raise the bucket/arm on the tractor fully, to repair a grease fitting (no other way to get to it).. needless to say I am not working for him anymore. Please be safe everybody. I know how to do many things (working with my hands) but also I am far from "smart" so to speak, I am poor also but I still refuse to work certain things. I think my point is that your safety is your responsibility, so please do everything possible to not get injured, or even killed. May God bless you all.

[@StumpyNubs]

If a boss thinks your life/health is disposable, run away!

[@cabbyhubby]

I bought one of the earliest sawstops, then a contractor saw 2 yrs ago. Some folks say you take more chances with the safety feature. I ask them do you drive unsafe because your car has an air bag? I approve this message !

[@PBMS123]

Except its not like that. Its more like if you drove a car with a bunch of super sharp knives 3 inches away from your face, you would drive more carefully right? Same thing with a saw. I'm sure some people with a saw stop would be somewhat complacent knowing they probably won't get hurt, compared to someone who knows they will if they screw up.

[@johnhandcock3242]

those aren't comparable...

[@Purin1023]

I don't know much about saws in general, but youtube recommended this vid to me. My dad lost his thumb about 10 years ago due to a slip while using one of his saws. Was in the hospital for what felt like forever, but they couldn't get the thumb reattached. I don't know how anyone would use price as an excuse over safety. If my dad had one of those stops, he might have a busted saw and a lighter wallet, but he wouldn't have had to spend weeks in the hospital watching his thumb rot away.

[@michaelmcdermott2178]

I use a SawStop and yes, it's reassuring to have the stop cartridge as a protective device. But let's be real - I would never rely solely on it or any other safety device to keep me out of trouble. My first line of defense is being smart: keeping hands away from moving parts, using push sticks and sliding tables, wearing goggles and ear protection etc. The two main reasons I love my SawStop are precision and accuracy. It's the best saw I've ever used and the brake cartridge system just adds another reason to love it.

[@forest1tech]

There was a sawstop at a commercial cabinet shop I used to work at. We once triggered the cartridge accidentally because we overstressed the saw ripping 4 inch thick oak too quickly. Sawstop was kind enough to send someone out and repair the saw for us at no charge. And we were using an inexpensive blade so we did just throw it out.

[@kenstewart687]

My SawStop slowed down twice, the second time the brake activated and stopped the saw. I contacted SawStop tech department this morning and stepped them through it and told them I was sawing laminated pieces of wood that I had liberally applied glue to and in some void areas just two hours before. They felt and so did I that some of that glue got into the activation of the saw. Best to wait at least 24 hours after glueing something was their recommendation.

[@shawnwagoner7049]

I have an extremely small shop and have been waiting for the compact version of the Saw Stop before replacing my current saw. You guessed it! 2 days ago (18 days before the new model release date) I lost focus long enough to earn a trip to the ER and will see a hand surgeon later today. I'm as broke as every other hobbyist woodworker but I plan to buy the first compact Saw Stop that's available locally!

[@1siggycrs]

I do know a guy who lost his finger using a saw stop. The blade didn't do it. It was the wood getting bound and spinning around. The saw worked properly and I trust this saw but always treat every saw with respect. Love your videos.

[@JamesKohler-hj9zs]

I set off the brake once when my aluminum aftermarket miter gage touched the spinning blade. I pried the blade out of the brake which had chipped one tooth and destroyed another. I replaced the brake and put the blade back in to see if it was ruined. It cut fine and I used that blade for two years before I sent it in and got it repaired and sharpened. It was also a thin kerf blade and it really didn't show anything wrong on the cut.

[@wolflahti412]

"I've never seen a hot dog need anything more than a band-aid." :D

[@BrBill]

Finding a hot dog that has a Band-Aid on it ... well, that's a different kind of video.

[@kgharris2058]

I bought my SawStop ages ago. It is the cheapest insurance you can buy! I had a visitor in my shop the other day who drooled over my SawStop but said she had not been able to afford one and had bought a top quality saw at a big box store. It works great! Oh, she did cut off the tip of a finger .. And Saw Stop was not worth the extra money? I have set mine off twice. Both times I had stopped the saw and then accidentally lightly touched the SIDE of the blade. Yup! Immediate stop. Saw Stop even sent me a replacement brake after I filled out a detailed report and sent them the brake. They just want to see how the brake functioned. Pretty perfectly I would say. And last, their assembly instructions and manual are the best I have ever seen and their tech support people are unfailingly patient, polite, and friendly. I have asked some of the most basic questions ever and they have never been anything less than supportive.

[@williamdavis4542]

I have a friend who triggered a SawStop at a woodworking school and it turned out to be because the wood moisture was very high. Extremely high. Yes the blade was slinging moisture at him. Duh! As stated, SawStop has a process where you can present suspect wood to the non-spinning blade and check a status light. If the light says no-go, either don't cut that wood or bypass the safety system and be very careful. The next time you turn the saw on, the safety will automatically be active again. I have done other things to protect myself with the Unisaw I bought, but if I did any serious amount of woodworking, I would buy a SawStop. Meanwhile I added an aftermarket splitter and a good blade guard with (somewhat effective) dust collection. On top of the safety, the SawStops are simply excellent, head and shoulders above the rest. They are worth the money, whether you are willing to pay it or not.

[@willardnieman9269]

My last job bought a SawStop. It had a 5 hp motor and was a dream to work with. I worked with it for 5 years before I retired and there was never any problems of any kind with that machine.

[@justjames1111]

Good for you, an honest review to debunk some of the trash talk out there which is totally unwarranted. Good Man.

[@InfiniteRhombus]

>stumpy nubs >still has all his fingers

[@harrypowers9412]

I have been using a SawStop contractor saw for over two years and have NEVER had any of the issues happen that others have alleged. I even inadvertently cut a hidden steel screw one time in a board without incident. I don’t know how I ever got by without my SawStop saw.

[@terry8965]

I have the Contractors version of the Sawstop and have had it trigger twice. Once was when I cut a piece of scrap that had aluminum tape on the bottom that I did not see and the other was when I was ripping with an aluminum angle jig and the blade came in contact with the jig. I was touching the jig at the time so it was grounded and the aluminum tape was touching the bed so it was grounded too. Expensive mistakes, but I wouldn't have any other saw!

[@darrendeatz]

3 years with my Sawstop and I love it. Fired the brake while ripping a treated 2x4, which I've done hundreds of times. I consider this MY FAULT, not the saw. The board was wet, like much treated lumber, but it was not slinging liquid off the blade as you suggest. But, wet enough that I should have thought to deactivate the brake. Bent one tooth on my blade, which was straightened and reused.

[@fdxdsm]

I LOVE my Sawstop PCS! Well engineered and well made. I have tripped the blade brake twice in 6 years. Once was the tiniest touch to my adjustable Incra Miter guage fence, I mean after the brake tripped I found only the slightest scratch on the fence. and the second time I tripped it I have no idea why it tripped but after the first trip and seeing just how accurate the safety feature is I have no doubt that I tripped it myself somehow. So I have spent 120 to replace 2 brakes and 100 on one ruined sawblade. SMALL price to pay as compared to a hand injury or an amputation. I earn my living with my hands so I appreciate them all intact and functioning. THANK YOU SAWSTOP for this technology! As for 'wet' wood you can test this by touching the wood you think might be too wet to the blade with the saw powered up but NOT turned on, if the light blinks it would trip the brake and you need to disable the system for that cut. I check the safety system each time I replace the blade by touching the side of the blade with the saw turned off, lights flash, safety system is live and I will then proceed.

[@garyjackson8757]

The first time I used my sawstop, I was cutting pressure treated 2x4s for my wife to make gnomes for Xmas presents. I got one board cut and the 2nd tripped the brake. The board was hardly wet, certainly not dripping. It had been sitting in my garage for weeks. So there was something about it that tripped the brake. I still feel it my my fault for not overriding the safety mechanism, but I forgot that it could happen.

[@williamdawes4903]

I love my saw stop the only time I’ve had a cartridge go off it was an old dado cartridge, and it was right after I had turned the saw on and before it had reached full speed. Very odd it knocked quite a few teeth off but didn’t bury itself into the blade. I am enjoying the videos thanks!

[@timoneill158]

I have a Saw Stop and I love it! It’s an excellent saw w a great fence. That being said, I did set it off cutting treated lumber. Even after letting it sit in the shop 3 days to acclimate, as they suggest. Actually it happened twice. The first time they replaced the cartridge free after I returned for inspection. And I didn’t throw my blade away. There was no apparent damage. Used it for a long time after.

[@woodenbat4054]

If you have no expectation of support from Microjig, what do you think of their dovetail clamping table top system? How often does one care about flattening a work bench?

[@FFGANDALF]

We’ve been using them, both the full size shop version and the job site version. We have triggered once or twice on treated lumber, which was user error they didn’t put it in the test phase. The boss also once had to cut metal and forgot to bypass it, and once (and I saw it go off on this one) we were building electrical boxes with wood covers. We already had all the wood cut so it was near where the metal was being cut for the accent piece at the edge, one of the pieces was off by the Kerf so one of the guys took it to the table saw which at that point had been moved to the next floor bc it wasn’t needed. Best we could guess one of the small metal bits from the accent was on the wood when he went to trim it that tinyiest bit

[@Cohen7277]

I love my Sawstop and would never use anything else. However I did have the brake trigger last year and I have no idea why. But no harm done, I had another brake on hand and was back in business in 15 minutes.

[@alexwbakker]

I've never triggered my Sawstop, but I ALMOST did by carelessly thinking I would cut foil wrapped foam board. (yeah, I know, don't do that with a cabinet saw...sometimes you need to do stuff like that.). Anyway, I remembered last minute and switched the brake off, and when I did, the saw confirmed that foil wrapped stuff will trigger the brake. the one ergonomic thing I don't like about disabling the sawstop brake is that it takes such a process to do, that you tend to leave the saw running while adjusting for different cuts. As a result, you leave the blade running the longest during the times when it is NOT safe. Personally, it isn't a deal breaker, but If I am doing stuff that is likely to trigger the sawstop accidentally, I just use a track saw, panel saw, or miter saw instead.

[@noepacheco5714]

On September 9 i got a accident with a tablesaw i regret every day since then,, rush and careless had their toll every time i see a person saying that wouldn't happen to me cause I'm a professional i feel sad and think i was doing this for 17+ years and never thought on the possibility of getting hurt as others think now im here sitting waiting for my fingers to recover and get back to work honestly im not confident anymore with the possibility of getting hurt again but if there is a chance of saving my fingers again ill pay the price for sawstop

[@aaronforgnone4524]

Just don't cut a gilded picture frame with it.

[@leehaelters6182]

Excellent point, Aaron, thanks. Definitely not an obvious one. Did you trip one this way?

[@aaronforgnone4524]

No me but it could have been very easily. A guy I used to work with was asked to trim a small piece off a gilded frame and it did actually trip the saw.

[@ErinAkil2000]

I have tripped a SawStop cartridge once in about 10 years of use. I am NOT a pro so I have made my share of mistakes. The first trip was me hitting a part of my tenoning jig. It was a metal component and I was holding it. The blade tripped and I did have to pay for a new blade and cartrage. Had the break not been activated, I probably would have thrown the jig into the blade and probably taken my hand with it. If not, the whole workpiece would have caught on the blade and kicked back into my chest. Well worth the price of a new blade and cartridge. For anyone who thinks they are above making such a mistake I have a simple question: Have you ever, in your life, completed a complicated woodworking project with nothing going wrong? Probably not. We always make some mistake and if we are lucky we can fix it without too much trouble.

[@738polarbear]

The biggest enemy of woodworkers is familiarity . people get so "comfortable" around using their table saw that it can lead to accidents. This can be said of virtually every aspect of construction .Great video as usual james.The ONLY drawback that I can see to Sawstop are their prices . many people cannot afford the 3 to 4 thousand dollars that they cost depending on model. They used to have a jobsite saw but even that is 4 times the price of other good quality saws out there.

[@StumpyNubs]

SawStops are expensive, but not more expensive than other saws of similar quality, especially the cabinet saws. The flesh-sensing technology is essentially free.

[@Flumphinator]

Nobody will ever read this because this is a 2 year old video, but the first time I ever used a table saw, it was a Sawstop at my local makerspace. The very first time I turned it on, it triggered the cartridge. Nothing was even touching the blade. Turns out someone else had recently triggered it and someone installed the new cartridge improperly. They used to have a "wall of shame" there with all of the saw blades embedded in spent cartridges. They didn't end up charging me for the cartridge because they got me on camera. That was my introduction to woodworking!

[@expertoflizardcorrugation3967]

woodworking isn't a cheap hobby, and my thoughts are that if you can't afford to practice a hobby safely you probably shouldn't be practicing it right now. it sucks to not do what you enjoy doing, but the hospital bills are gonna suck a whole lot more if you mess up, and it can happen to anybody. Yes there is a good chance that you can go your entire life without ever getting into an accident, but if you ever need it you're gonna be real thankful that you had it. Think of it kind of like cars. you can drive your whole life and never get into an accident, but if you get into an accident you're probably gonna be thankful for seatbelts and airbags.

[@hunterjohnson7393]

Good video. Just a technicality: it's not being grounded; the system is looking to see the capacitance of the human body. The 12 V signal is fed to a large capacitor in the SawStop system. If everything is working fine, the capacitor's charge remains constant. If a human (or hotdog) touches it, the capacitor in the cartridge begins to discharge, and this triggers the brake. Another thing to consider: yes, the SawStop costs a bit more, and we all agree that it'll save a whole lot more than that in hospital bills, etc. But also: come time to sell your saw, how much do you think the non-SawStop saw will be worth? Whatever you pay extra for the SawStop, you'll get it all back when you sell it on. It's a false economy thinking that it actually costs more in the long-run.

[@tomsears2471]

I love my SawStop PCS. Best table saw I have ever owned. I did set it off cutting through nail in the wood for a neighbor. Have the blade and cartridge hanging above my workbench to remind me. It is stupid simple to replace the cartridge; while I didn't extract the blade, based on my visual inspection, I think my high dollar blade would be reusable. Great video, keep it up. Really appreciate your viewpoints.

[@michaelfisher9671]

When you think about how high the stakes are for those selling non-sawstop saws, it is inconceivable that there would NOT be false complaints and negative rumours about them out there.

[@michaelfisher9671]

@@piotrkozbial8753 True but not being able to earn money from inventions because they are copied the moment you publicise them doesn't work too well either. Shrug.

[@anonymousj3564]

Just started getting into woodworking seriously as a hobby. Mostly just did small projects with framing lumber and what not before. Extremely cool to see the winged wheel in a video. Did a little Google search and found out you only live a few hours from me. We visit Frankenmuth a few times a year so I wouldn’t be surprised if we crossed paths. Thanks for the good info!!

[@John_Fx]

Fact: I'd love a SawStop but can't afford them in the first place.

[@ranger5309]

I have witnessed numerous table saw accidents in my lifetime. It’s made me want to give up woodworking all together. Saw stop has changed that for me! It’s a great saw! Very high quality!

[@menriquez89]

My dad triggered the brake by cutting through a nail in reclaimed wood. He loves the saw.

[@stevephelps8113]

The Sawstop safety device is cool, but it can only be used on their table saw. It is not really mentioned, but you cannot retro fit it to your current table saw if it is not a Sawstop. Just FYI.

[@costbubbles8336]

ive never done a bit of woodworking in my life nor plan to. but after seeing 3 videos on these things, i want one.

[@DaskaiserreichNet78]

Better to spend one or two hundred dollars on a rare false trigger in exchange for saving your hand. A hand is worth much more than a couple of hundred bucks.

[@MrMisterDerp]

Wet or even slightly wet wood will also set off an older sawstop, this is why people claim theirs “went off for no reason”

[@erikliljenwall8185]

I’ve used saw stop saws for years, mostly in educational settings. They are high quality saws, generally speaking. I’ve never triggered the brake because I rely on my safe operation habits first, and the safety technology second. I’ve seen a few new woodworkers get complacent with safety on a saw stop because they think the machine is “safe.” Sure you probably won’t cut off a finger, but you can get punched in the gut before you can blink. Now when training new users, I spend a lot more time talking about kickbacks (how they happen, how much damage they can cause, and how to prevent them.) than I do about the braking system.

[@alexsbikesandmotors]

I used to work at a casket factory cutting 4x8 osb sheets with a casadei panel saw and i never cut my fingers off but i hated that job because of the danger. Maybe id still be working there if they had a stop saw

[@catmando4914]

"Saw Stop" brand machine or not, keep your hands away from that spinning thing. Always know where your hands are. My mantra is "Don't get Complacent" I say that every time I approach a power tool of any kind. A little fear/concern is good.

[@jumbo4billion]

Also, don't take the blade guard off! It's there for a reason.

[@woodworkerroyer8497]

At a job I had, if we used the saw stop we had to bypass the safety stuff if the wood was wet. Oh, and the year I worked there, was the year that the rivers FLOODED THE VINEYARDS! California's "drought" was drowned and that saw was not used much for its safety that year! As for the blade being too expensive, yes, it is ridiculous, but even $200 is WAY cheaper and better and easier than losing a finger. Even if they can sew it back on and it heals perfectly.

[@rlaxtt]

I know this is an old thread but in the last two days I had two brake trips while my hands were nowhere near the blade. And no hotdogs were involved either. I have no idea what happened but, now on my third brake in 3 days, I figured I'd take the time to clean out the saw entirely. It seems to be working fine now. Could have been some dust that sucked up some humidity or something.. I don't know.... I have to admit, I'm nervous about it tripping again, but it's still worth it and I have no regrets on spending the money on the extra brakes. The lost time to run and get extra brakes was more painful than the money but WAY WAY WAY less painful than losing a finger. And to the point about ruining blades: One of the blades in the incidents above was wrecked. A Freud industrial glue line flat bevel had a tooth taken off. The other was a sawstop titanium which was just fine.

[@Jackbrick101]

I just posted a comment about my own two misfires, here's something I was just told by SS support: Told me I need to replace the belt every two years (less than $20, just ordered one) because it's a "static dissipating item". I have the CNS. Also told me that poor dust collection could lead to static buildup. If you haven't already, send your blades in to them to be analyzed!

[@rlaxtt]

@@Jackbrick101 Thanks for the info... Really appreciate it. I'll change the belt. Dust collection is good but it's never perfect... I think it was a static issue. I haven't sent them the brakes yet... I decided to clean everything from top to bottom including blowing out the unreachable dust with compressed air and that seems to have almost eliminated the issue. I did have one additional brake engagement but it was incredibly weird. I had the saw unplugged overnight. Plugged it in and turned it on.. flipped the paddle and nothing. blinking lights indicated a blade lock. overnight, with the thing unplugged, the brake went off and was just touching the blade. The brake was pressed against the blade like it was spaced intentionally to touch. It had popped while the blade wasn't moving. go figure.

[@738polarbear]

I want to know if ANY hotdogs were harmed in the making of Sawstop adverts.

[@sam-vc5ko]

i have had a saw stop for years. i have set it off however it was my fault. wet glue if you are touching it. aluminum miter gauge is a bad idea. having said that i set one off with my finger. that one event saved enough money to purchase many saw stop blades and cartridge's. i am happy with mine. very happy.

[@nathnathn]

My opinion is as long as someone doesn’t take it as an excuse to ignore safety. You don’t want to ever be in a situation to set it off. It’s a failsafe and you can just be glad it works in the worsecase scenario where you would otherwise lose a limb.

[@GoobuGoobu]

I used hot dogs as framing nails for my new house. My SawStop activated every time I cut a piece of wood and I had to replace the blade each time, doubling the cost of the project.

[@stocktonjoans]

that moisture level test is clever idea

[@davidmiller4594]

Some guys will Always hate sawstop. Before they sold their own saws, the were marketing unisaws converted over with the cartridge. The impact was more severe and the saw would need to be realigned to be useful again. This meant a trip back to sawstop for the uni. The complaint was the downtime if the cartridge was ever triggered. Sawstop argued a very fine point. If the cartridge is ever tripped, that means a serious accident was going to happen to the saw owner and the cartridge just saved months of downtime to the operator for stopping an accident. This kind of common sense is useless for a lot of people. Thats why sawstop now sells the entire saw that is designed around the unisaw but is beefier to withstand the impact of their cartridge and making a replacement repair easy enough for the consumer to eliminate the need to ship off the saw to them. But still, you're going to get those guys who will justify their saw is better by criticizing. Even if the criticism is completely ludicrous. I dont have a sawstop. I use a unisaw. But thats because I can't afford to swap over to the sawstop yet. Believe me, anyone using a uni would love sawstop if the had one.

[@ericwexler3550]

I didnt realize how uncommon misfires are. I triggered the brake once while cutting thin strips of pressure treated plywood. My hands were easily a foot plus away from the blade, however, the wood was only an 3cm wide and I was using an extruded aluminum rip fence. I guess the capacitance was just right, but bad luck for me.

[@katahulastrider1661]

I've always been too paranoid thinking it won't work but cheers man might get one now 👍

[@DUSTEATER2]

As a SS owner I have never had a false trip of the cartridge but I saw Rob Cosman said he had one. I believe he sent the cartridge in for examination and got a free replacement. Many SS haters have never owned a SS or even used one.

[@haines96]

Thanks for this fair-minded and independent set of comments. I am curious what is the purchase price premium compared with another saw? I thought I heard they were 250% more expensive...is that true?

[@StumpyNubs]

SawStop saws are premium saws. It is not reasonable to compare their price to that of lower end saws. Instead, they must be compared to like models from other high quality manufacturers. I have not checked the prices recently, but they have historically been priced very close to saws of similar quality from Powermatic.

[@satchelsieniewicz5824]

its not really a drop in voltage... its a change in capacitance which is quite different if you. if you cut a capacitor for some reason that would just as easily set the cartage off with out it needing to be "grounded"

[@jamesmoon1085]

I have had a Sawstop contractor saw since 2007 and was a beta tester for it. Just a hobbyist but had 2 experienced WW friends nip two fingers and the other a thumb ; medical costs $16k and $23k respectively .thumbs cost more , I guess. Also what will set off the brake is cutting metallic painted picture frame molding Which I have done. Great customer support and incredible attention to everything including the manual which you should compare to any other tool manual.

[@cliffjones8809]

Sawstops (I call them hot dog saws) are great, a brilliant invention. But I've seen a fair number "false" activations; they were all cutting laminate sheet goods. I guess it's laminate with metal in it, but I don't know exactly which materials do this. The solution is to put the machine in the non-activating mode. I didn't know that that mode will tell you if the thing would have gone off. My suggestion on the cost of replacing the cartridge is this: Think of it like using a car. You might complain about the cost of gas, but you wouldn't ever try to drive without gas.

[@efox2001]

Best answer to false stop argument: How many false stops to equal the cost of reattaching a finger!? Once I have the money, I'm getting a saw stop!

[@Dilettant_66]

SawStop is a good system. The problem I see is the supposed safety against injuries. People might think they are absolutely safe because of the videos with the sausages circulating all over the internet. Then accidents happen, like the one of Rex Krueger who simply leaves out the Bladeguard because he is a professional and nothing can happen with this saw. SawStop itself calls a reaction time of 4-5 milliseconds. Now everyone can calculate how much distance a saw blade with a diameter of 10 inches at 4 - 5 thousand revolutions per minute covers in this time. It's simple mathematics. There still is the possibility to get contact with some teeth of the saw. Saw teeth that are shaped in a way that they press the cut material onto the saw table. Therefore also with SawStop, the circular saw is a dangerous tool that should be used with caution. It wouldn't be the first safety device whose introduction would make people more careless.

[@LukeL007]

Even a simple laceration that requires stitches will set you back well over $2,000.00 in ER fees. Reattaching a finger and you are looking at 15-30K. Even for a weekend warrior being without the use of your hand for a couple of months will make it difficult to type or even drive. So the cost of a SawStop and a new blade even if it is $500.00 is well worth the cost.

[@KRTube75]

I told myself when my table saw died I was getting a SawStop. A week later, I went to use the table saw and the motor burned up. I immediately went out and bought a SawStop PCS 3 HP. It's super quiet and very accurate. No issues with it so far.

[@Chequr_Prostate]

My only argument against saw stop or Festool as it is now, is that it is such an important safety device that they should allow the technology to be licensed to other manufactures. In fact the Heath and safety department in Governments around the world should make it mandatory.

[@thepandaman]

My Dad lost half of his little finger and the tips of the next on his Myford PR11 planer. No chance of getting those re-attached :( Said planer now sits in my shop, and needless to say I'm wary when using it.

[@dougford7568]

I just bought one today for the safety and quality, thanks for this information which supports my decision! No hotdogs were injured during this video!

[@larrybud]

SawStop may be a perfect fine invention and feature, but everybody weighs price with risk in everything you do. You could spend 3 or 4 grand to get a 5 point seat belt harness installed in your car which will work (i.e. be safer) than a 3 pt harness, but you don't. Why? Because you perceive the risk of needing it lower then the cost which you would incur, and in this example, we're talking about saving your life, and not the finger.

[@AvenValkyr]

Let me tell you a story. I'm not a carpenter and I hardly call myself a wood worker. I have plenty of job site experience though since I am a 4th year electrician and lots of experience labouring. Well I've decided recently to follow my dream and start a business building things out of wood. I've been tooling up and recently bought a Home Depot cheapie table saw. I've been on KZbin for the last week researching jigs and going deep into the hazards. Well of course, obviously I have learned about saw stop table saws. Yes I want one so badly. Here's what I have to say to any fool who argues against this saw: 97% of fatalities/amputations are from the 30 year veterens who think their shit don't stink. Any vet who tells a newbie to circumvent safety measures is a stupid fool who deserves to be shamed by his peers. The baseline of a sawstop is that it works. Every time. If you try to argue that one in a hundred million times it *might* not work is better that the 1 in a thousand chance you're going to cut your fingers off

[@allenhanford]

Even if the system was only 50 percent effective that would mean 50 percent better chance at keeping your fingers. Totally worth it.

[@samgossett151]

hello everyone I am currently trying to decide between a Harvey table saw and a SawStop. having a hard time deciding they both have some perks one main one is the Harvey is cheaper and built really well. I know if I get a Harvey and cut off a finger I will regret it but I have been working with job site Milwaukee for my carpentry work and a delta 10" for my woodworking shop for 5 years. I am very big on safety so I use push stick push block and jigs all to help keep my fingers safe. but I do understand accidents are well accidents so that leads me to the saw stop but I know there a lot of tools in my shop that don't have any safety. so than I can save some money plus get a little better quality with the Harvey. I really like your videos and was hoping to get your opinion since you own both the Harvey and SawStop.

[@T33K3SS3LCH3N]

Water on its own is a bad conductor, so maybe the wet wood thing works with severely salted water or something. Not saying that this should be taken as a practical concern, but it would be interesting to see how rare of a situation you have to engineer to set off a false trigger.

[@RoninJeremy]

Thanks for the video, I only recently stumbled on sawstops but was curious about how the mechanism worked i would of thought high moisture or a nail would set it off. But I don't think the ground is through the user 🤔. Wearing shoes would cause a failure in the system no? Same with different floor types. Iirc that's mentioned in the video. Isn't it more likely that it's grounded through the electrical box? So as long as your wiring is correct you'd be safe? What if working on a job site and using a generator, should it then be bonded to the earth? Just Curious since cost is a factor for me currently since I'm just getting started. Cheers.

[@StumpyNubs]

Read the comment pinned to the top of the list for what I meant by "ground"

[@RoninJeremy]

@@StumpyNubs Cheers, sorry I often use youtube as a podcast while walking the dog or driving. so I don't always scroll through comments. Thanks for the reply.

[@Alexander-dt8sk]

Thank you sir. After watching your video on kick backs I've decided to spend the extra money for a Saw Stop. I can't put a price on my fingers, hands or any other body part; to say nothing of injuring someone else who might be in my shop at the time.

[@dennyoconnor8680]

Years ago my SawStop fired when ripping some stickered wood that had a damp spot near one end. My fault, not the saw's fault. Nothing made by man is perfect but my SawStop comes close. Still using it. Still trust that it will keep me from a major injury.

[@juliangreaves4727]

James. Thanks for all your great videos. I’ve watched so many and learned so much. I’m not yet a woodworker but I just love watching the craft of woodworking on KZbin. I would like to take it up as a hobby once time allows and would want to get a sawstop table saw. Trouble is, apart from the new little Festool one, you can’t buy Sawstop saws in the UK. Come on Sawstop, what are you doing? Best wishes, J

[@Roy-ij1wq]

Misfires are not a myth. I had one that was caused when I changed a 10" saw blades for one with a slightly different diameter. This changed the distance between the blade and cartridge and the cartridge fired and ruined a regular kerf blade. Tech support said that I should check the clearance every time I change blades. SawStop doesn't cover this and I was out $150 for a new cartridge and blade. It i also a pain to use the saw when cutting pressure treated lumber. The moisture doesn't cause the cartridge to fire but it does stop the saw mid cut. If you're cutting multiple pieces, you must deactivate the cartridge before starting your cut. This involves turning the saw on at the same time as you turn the key to turn off the cartridge. If you turn the saw off between cuts, you need to repeat this procedure for the next cut. I don't get how you can say in one sentence that you've never had a SawStop fire and in another say that it doesn't ruin the blade. What do you base this on?

[@hallambaker]

OK so I do not currently own a Sawstop. But I will be replacing my unisaw with one in the near future having used one extensively at my maker space. We have certainly had cartridges fire. But nobody has reported one of these events as a 'misfire'. The most common cause has been when someone used one of the fancy aluminum miter guides and managed to run the end onto the blade. This is the sort of thing a person is only going to do once. If you have hundreds of people using the saw every month, it happens more often. But it is not a monthly event. Maybe twice a year. And that is with a large number of people who are not familiar with the machine using it. On the other side, I know folk who have lost multiple fingers in table saw accidents and that has cost them a hell of a lot more in medical bills than a few blades and cartridges.

[@RolfPower]

My SawStop tripped when I looked at it too seriously.

[@flexiblebirdchannel]

Usually people do not cut their fingers in table saws. It's an extremly rare occasion. SawStop is only installed for that occasion. 99.999% of saw stop installations never protect a finger, are never engaged. It's like the air bag in your car. For calculations, you do not have to compare saw stop price to finger surgery price, but 10000 bought but unused sawstops to 1 finger protected by a saw stop. So economically it's too expensive, as sad as a missing finger might be.

[@StumpyNubs]

You are speaking as if the choice is between the full price of the SawStop saw and nothing at all. If you are a woodworker, you still need a saw. The Sawstop technology does not add that much to the price when you compare it to saws of similar quality. You are essentially only paying a few hundred dollars more (or less) for a lifetime of insurance against a horrible accident. Spread that out over the next several decades you may live, and the lifetime of the person you will pass it on to, and it's pretty cheap insurance.

[@brookswade5774]

I ran into an old friend at Walmart last night, no joke. He was still healing from losing half of his index finger, on a contractors table saw, on the last cut of the day. I think he would agree that saw stop is worthwhile.

[@rickgreenhalgh1357]

But you can't be a propper woodworker if you have 10 fingers. I don't own a sawstop but I'd never try and tell someone else not to go with the safest option available. It's like when people used to sat seat belts cause more injuries without any evidence or basis for that opinion.