Declining Value of Papers in Academia

The value of papers in academia is a very sensitive topic that I have been thinking about for quite some time. Yes, writing a paper is a great way to study the topic and advance your knowledge. Yes, papers are generally considered the best tool for disseminating scientific results. Papers are the structure and the soul of any research.
But the value of a single paper can be very low sometimes. To become a successful researcher, you should produce dozens of papers per year. This eventually decreases the value of publications and creates other publishing problems. In this video, I want to share my vision of this trend and discuss some recent insights that may be useful to other young researchers and academics.
00:00 Intro
00:33 Your career = your papers
03:46 The value of one paper is low
07:30 How much to publish (minimum)
08:43 Publishing pressure
12:37 How much to publish (optimistic)
16:29 Publishing paradox
18:51 What to do?
Andrey Churkin (Андрей Чуркин) 2023
andreychurkin.ru/

[@kw1ksh0t]

For me the contradiction is as follows: huge pressure to publish, papers are king, and yet no one reads them, because they are too busy publishing, and hence your papers are worthless. So there's just an endless stream of wasted effort, since no one is reading each others' papers. Hence the value of each paper is now almost zero, even if a huge amount of effort has gone into it. As you say, there is no feedback at all. I published what is, imo, a very important breakthrough in fundamental quantum systems with applications for all high-precision measurements. But, basically no one has read it, barely even my own PhD supervisor. Why? They don't have time, in fact they're incentivised *not to*! Now I'm a postdoc and it's very lonely, I barely did any work for 2 years because I had zero support since everyone in my research group cares only about their own work. Even within the research group there is zero feedback.

[@chuscience]

Good point! I did not mention it in the video: academics are very busy and do not read many papers. Some of them are just tired of reading about similar trendy ideas and minor improvements in their field. So we have millions of students publishing papers, but who actually reads them? According to my statistics, my papers are usually cited by other PhD students and sometimes postdocs.

[@kw1ksh0t]

@@chuscience The truth is that very few people are going to read your paper unless it is relevant to their own career. Therefore, we are effectively punished for doing pioneer work, since it requires a huge effort to advertise it and convince people they should learn it. I miss the days when it was actually excusible to just spend time simply learning without feeling bad about it

[@the11382]

Would AI analysis of papers help? There are LLMs that gobble up papers in minutes, spitting out only what you need of them.

[@WetPig]

Just like any business with it's KPI's..... This is not science, it's a business, the educational business. Im most parts of the world it doesn't even pay well... I would have loved to be a researcher, but all of these things made me not want to do it.

[@mrcrapforyou]

@kw1ksh0t care to share a link to your paper here & stíck it to the Man ?

[@emmanuelameyaw9735]

That's why single authored articles should carry much weight in promotions. Some professors are gaming the system with co-authors.

[@reginayfavors]

They are gaming the system by using graduate students too.

[@sunway1374]

That will become problematic too. They will find ways to have more single-authored papers. How? There are ways. For examples, keep recycling old ideas and old papers; and dig up those old abandoned ideas and papers (even as a mid-career researcher, I have a huge number of these, maybe as many as my published first-authored papers). Nothing will get discarded now. Also, you can cut up the results to create more papers. Maybe you used to write one or two papers for an idea before. Now, you cut up your research into more smallest publishable units. Having too many single-authored may also be a sign that the authors have difficult personality in the work environment, dislike team work, do not collaborate, etc. What is rare will be considered valuable. Then in the future, someone in a YT comment will write that's why we need to put more weight to coauthored papers.

[@realGBx64]

Most places only count corresponding author and first author in promotions and hiring. Being a simple co-author is absolutely meaningless these days.

[@grdfhrghrggrtwqqu]

@@sunway1374 Single author papers are BAD. Everything NEEDS to be peer reviewed, which means you NEED co authors. Saying otherwise is ignororant. No you are not Einstein. If you don't like team work, get out of college, and go teach it and read the textbook yourself. If you don't like it, STOP COMPLAINING AND GROW UP. Something this generation needs to DO.

[@sunway1374]

@@grdfhrghrggrtwqqu Did you reply to the wrong person? Read my comment again. I didn't say single-authored papers are good. In fact, quite the opposite could be what I have meant, although even then I didn't say papers with multiple authors are good. Also, you don't know me, why do you think I am in a college and of "this generation"? I don't know you... But from your comment, I guess you are not very experienced in the journal paper publication process.

[@prism223]

I said "no" to academia after a revealing experience at the very beginning. Without giving away identifiable information, here's what happened: - I worked for a few years on a new method of extracting data from physics experiments. - The results were excellent and allowed extraction of new results from old and new data sets. - I got a PhD on the results and submitted a paper. - The paper kept getting sent back from the review committee, but with strange comments, the things you would say if you didn't understand the material. Neither me nor my advisor understood why they would say what they said if they understood the material. Eventually I learned something that solved the mystery: Some of the people on the review committee were actively working on a competing approach to the one I developed and presented in the paper. So, there was an obvious conflict of interest between the paper and the committee, which made the mysterious negative comments suddenly make sense.

[@snared_]

no, that doesn't make your negative comments suddenly make sense. If they were actively developing a competing approach, then they would have the knowledge to understand the material. It seems far more likely that the negative comments were left there to gaslight you into wasting your time while they developed a superior approach or at least a copy cat of your own approach. By the way, that isn't 100% at all. So I plainly disagree that the intent behind their comments got cleared up, UNLESS you're assuming they have bad intentions from the get-go. But that is a very specific line of thinking and you are missing several other potential motivators leading to the same outcome you experienced.. But anyway, I get you. You should paste your paper onto the net somehow though, so they can't claim they came up with your idea before you published.

[@prism223]

@@snared_ Yes I was assuming bad faith

[@Rust_Rust_Rust]

​@@snared_No, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were developing a superior method or copying his techniques. At the end of the day you and OP are just speculating. Whatever their intentions were it most likely wasn't good.

[@choppergamer]

@@Rust_Rust_Rust too many smart people in this comment section. for once everything i wanna say have already been said

[@sergev6632]

​@snared_ and that's why preprints exist...

[@garythepencil]

the decline in value of academic papers means a rise in the value of youtube comments. you can read all about it in this youtube comment

[@JimTheCurator]

According to me, I agree with this sentiment!

[@suey1690]

I like searching ArXiv to see if there are any papers that have already explored solutions to some random math problem I came up with. As long as the submitted papers have correct math, more is better for that specific use case.

[@successmaker9258]

Seconded, this comment is now peer reviewed

[@Codysdab]

I saw this comment, but have read no scientific papers today. That's science! 🤣

[@Darkjnr5]

🤣

[@millamulisha]

I was working on a problem for around 6 months, had read a few thousand pages of advanced physics and mathematics, searched far and wide for research literature out there to help me find a solution, spent a few sleepless nights trying to work out solutions to this problem, came up with a fairly sophisticated model (system of nonlinear PDEs, solved using perturbation theory), etc… Long story short, I actually found the answer in two papers published in the 1960s (from NASA and another from a university in Germany) together which solved my problem. These two papers together had less than 4 citations (in 60+ years!). So I will say, don’t lose motivation. The work researchers do is very important, even if only realized by one person in the very far future. Stick with it folks, the system is a bit broken probably so I agree with much from what you have said in the video. 😅

[@MarkRuvald]

Your perseverance here should be rewarded, but sadly the audience may be so limited that it won't be. In the 60s those researchers probably felt less publishing pressure than now. I wouldn't know if competition and prestige has changed since then also.

[@lucaxtshotting2378]

wait, so the work is important because in the future someone will realize it is already done? what a ponzi scheme Edit: it is a ponzi scheme because its existance is only justified by its existance. Didnt think I had to clarify this. Please dont answer it is not, im reducing to absurd. Not a big reduction though, as of today

[@gsuekbdhsidbdhd]

​@lucaxtshotting2378 They probably solved an internal problem and then published the results

[@lucaxtshotting2378]

@@gsuekbdhsidbdhd even more strict of a ponzi scheme then. I'm sure they make some progress, it's hard to believe it is worth the money and other resources. It's not like Open AI and not university of Toronto is king of Rohan

[@lucaxtshotting2378]

the other way around*. Open AI is indeed king of Rohan

[@thorebergmann1986]

When you learnt your job at 5-star restaurant, and realize you ended up in a fast food restaurant instead

[@chuscience]

😂

[@snared_]

@@MorTobXD civilized, vegan, cheap. For restaurants, Pick two, should be doable.

[@LethalBubbles]

classist statements like that are why it is so bad. the only cure is full freedom of all information. transparency is the only way. classism, assuming the fast food eater must be an uneducated hoard, and that the academia goer isnt some nepotism yacht club scholarship is the exact reason why this happens. theres good people who are privleged and theres good people who are not. when someone denies the "fast food eaters" an education, equal access, they've created classist slavery. when they put the privlege folk into a position theyre born into, they are also robbed of their potential expertise. we're all equal and creating a system of illusions to say otherwise creates lies about cancer.

[@Ekornpro]

Let me fix that statement "When you learnt your job at 5-star restaurant, and realize you ended up in a fast food restaurant instead cause your not a 5-star restaurant chef"

[@thorebergmann1986]

@@Ekornpro So, you wanna say, 5-star restaurants do exist in science?

[@bhaskartripathi]

Coming from industry, I learnt these rules in Academia: 1. Publish or perish. 2. Novelty is not enough. Novelty should be valuable. 3. Never reveal your code, until you are done with 2-3 variant papers on the same or similar topic. 4. No one cares on the quality of code. 5. Keep writing. Writing is thinking. 6. Be more resourceful than more honest.

[@yee6365]

It's a shame

[@GuyMichaely]

Why #3?

[@jeanc6306]

​@@GuyMichaelyit gives you competitive advantage when developing the new methods/new experiments. Don't want to release code and then get scooped on some idea extension. Sort of trading off impact for paper quantity

[@vNCAwizard]

I agree with 1, 2, and 3. I am a programmer, so no on 4. 5 is good only with endless editing and revision. I do not agree with the willingness to sacrifice honesty.

[@runnerup15]

What an abomination of a system we have made. Research is made only in the name of making enough money to barely scrape by and if you get any inkling of an idea sprouting from research you need to hide it to yourself so you can hopefully continue to have medical insurance and maybe money left over for a bag of rice

[@kyaume21]

The problem stems from University admin culture: it wants facile criteria to judge something which is beyond them to understand. So they take refuge in cheap numerical data, which has no connection to the actual reality. Compare it to art, for the sake of making a point: suppose the value of a composer (say Bach, Mozart, Beethoven) was judged by a numerical value (eg. the number of downloads of their music clips) : it would be a good 'objective'measure to use for the tone-deaf. But would it capture the true value of the output of those composers?

[@chuscience]

Nice analogy with composers😅 Will remember it for future discussions!

[@tjppercussion]

Exactly. Mozart wrote 41 symphonies but for the most part the first 30 or so are ignored compared to the study of his later ones like no. 39 or no. 41. Same for Haydn, he wrote 100+ but many haven't even heard any of the first 90. Meanwhile Beethoven wrote 9, all of which are highly revered. Many music scholars don't fall into the "your papers are your career" category, anyway, considering the additional achievements of performances, clinics, and masterclasses. Though publications of course are part of it

[@moumouzel]

Spot on

[@ColdNavigator]

Research may also take centuries to result in huge pay off. Any value that can be measured have a huge lag in the signal. I doubt many of the ancient people who studied number theory and early differential geometry would have known that it would lead to a language to describe quantum physicis and general relativity.

[@alioshax7797]

What would be the alternative solution ? You think a university has the time, the energy or the ability to read the work of every single one of their workforce ? Going from Mayan history to particule physics through the biology of the shrimp or the sociology of birthday parties ? And even then, measuring the quality of a paper is quite subjective. Of course they need easy, understandable metrics to make a choice. No matter how flawed their are.

[@SoroushRabiei]

In my line of research, I found more than 90% of published papers to be either nonesense, repeating the known in a different way, or even outright academic fraud in some cases. You often find "paper gangs"... A group of people who cite each others papers repeatedly and even review each other in lower quality publications with no "associations" checks! There is very little value in most of the published papers I encounter. This makes doing research a very difficult endeavour for me. I think the main reason for this is "publish or perish" situation in academia.

[@amir-ng6jv]

جسارتا در چه حوزه ای؟

[@BS-jw7nf]

I don’t think many people realise what the job of an academic is these days. Your job is to get funding to your university. It’s not research, it’s not even papers, it is all about getting money to the university and to that end. You need to optimise for this. Having good friends gives you better resources to get more money to your institute. Better paper metrics give you better chances at getting funding. It is ALL about getting money to your university. If you want to be a successful researcher, you need to optimise to that goal.

[@YourCapybaraAmigo_17yrsago]

Yeah and this is bad. Why would you justify this? Academia is supposed to have a higher goal than personal profit. I think we're in sorry times where colleges are just another greedy business. I think it's sad as fuk, why don't you? All this money that comes in, and then where does it go? Don't we see a problem with this? Tuition is rising steeply, more and more students are being priced out and unable to meet the shortfalls with other forms of assistance, all while the PhDs are being dutiful little slaves trying to bring in the money, and plenty of other sources of money are rolling in and yet.......what? Are all the universes employees then paid comfortably and fairly and his tuition kept reasonable? Not in most places. So the university is nothing but a profit seeking machine then? Just another business? Well isn't that just so enlightened. I have a lot of problems with this. Apparently you don't. Again I ask you, where the hell does all this money go??? Are you aware that according to more and more reports that have surfaced the majority of staff and support staff at universities are poorly paid??? Apparently postdocs have a shameful record of job security because they're given appallingly short work contracts from their superiors, from 2 mos to 3 years tops. I should think this would be unacceptable. Most people want some security in their job, it doesn't have to be set in stone, but it is completely unfair to any worker especially a professional credentialed staff worker to provide them next to no predictability and longer-term contract so they can plan their life accordingly. I mean this shit sounds exploitative af don't you see it??? About the money - so basically the University president is your pimp and you're supposed to be their loyal bitch and if you're not bringing in enough money your career is going to go down the toilet- yeah? A crass but apt analogy yes??? Also are you aware that the presence of medium and large and universities has a disastrous knock-on effect of local rent prices? now local city councils are to blame for this because they refuse to enact rent control because they're corrupt trolls, but yes, universities do this whether they intend to or not. Also, are you aware that many colleges and universities pay zero taxes and contribute very little to their surrounding economy? I wonder if you're aware of any of this. I know we've all been trained to view the university as this august refined altruistic institution that is nothing but beatific and a positive in every way but unfortunately, whether they intend to or not, they bring a lot of negative with them. Looks like there's a lot of crookedness that goes on at the top level of university management. Because right now I don't see anything that they're doing as ethical. Not sure if greater regulation (specific laws) would change this. Still looking into that.

[@sunway1374]

Yes, that's what I observed and concluded too. People still talk about publish or perish, like having papers is sufficient. No, no, no. You need to have grants. The more the better, the larger the better. And that is sufficient. It's been "Grants or perish" for at least 2 decades now.

[@YourCapybaraAmigo_17yrsago]

And yet you're paid shit for this. Or at least not very well apparently. Lol. Ok well I think it's awesome that universities have become nothing but small corporations today.

[@praphael]

@@sunway1374 This is true. However without the papers you don't get the grants Now it may be that someone has superior journal output and doesn't get the grant vs. someone who only has average journal output who doesnt This can also come down to how well the grant was written and novelty, etc.

[@sunway1374]

@@praphael OK. But papers are much easier to get than grants. And you don't need great papers to get a grant. I know people who have many papers but never get a tenure (inc. me), and others who have many papers and even written books but never rise above associate prof. All because we have never been PI of a large enough grant.

[@A3racada3ra]

The whole academic system is basically rotten in its core. As a young researcher its extremely hard to actually make it because nothing works in your favor. Just to name a few: 1. You are extremely dependent on senior researchers / professors, because they are the gatekeepers. Many of them see you as their workhorse who will publish with minimum effort from their side (if you are a postdoc). To top it off, many of them even insist on being put as the lead scientist on any paper you publish (even if their contribution was miniscule). And sometimes they even delegate a lot of extra work (teaching or administration) to you. It is very difficult to argue against this because they hold so much power and potentially can end your career before it even started ... 2. With the increased pressure to publish many papers, it's not just the quality of the papers but also the metrics themselves which get scewed. Lots of papers means lots of citations of older work, which again works in favor for more senior scientists. The side effect is that their metrics will ramp up significantly whilst junior scientists bite the dust. This is especially true if you are not working with a high profile professor. 3. The whole "open science" concept as it is introduced these days makes it even worse for young group leaders or whole institutions, which don't have as many financial ressources to fund open access publications (which cost thousands of dollars). Again OA leads to more citations, and statistically established researchers with a big name have the most ressources to make their work accessible. There are of course also many good sides to an academic career and there are good professors and senior scientists who really want to make a change, however it is best to be realistic and don't have any illusions about it.

[@dxq3647]

Yup, a young academic has to compete with someone with 40+ years and still produce an interesting paper. How is that fair in any normal field?

[@davecrupel2817]

There are few things i detest more than an "old boys club" situation. Which this sounds very much like.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

If a "professor" is gatekeeping shit, use various sources. Be upfront about it. Tell them that they're the only experts about it. Don't give it up and whine how they're gatekeeping and stuff. Convince them to give you an answer. Sometimes professors really didn't know the answer either, they're humans who are simply labelled as "professor". You can't blame everything on them. Sure, they hold power, of course they do. But it doesn't mean that you'll give up just like that. You have to convince them you're worth listening to. I am not a professor but in my experience, you have to convince them whatever you're concerning about required their attention. Sometimes you worry about the most mundane stuff and brings it to them and realized you could just get the answer on Google. Also, for 3, I have mixed feelings, yes, we need as much access to information including those behind a paywall but we have to hear in mind, it's the internet, you can get good information for cheap and free, plus, you have public libraries and also archives. Obviously I advocate for free information than having to pay it but you gotta understand that it's not about you and your laziness but your willingness to find good information. You gotta show people that you're capable as a student/researcher and not just whine about how professor X is possibly Satan in a lab coat.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

​@@dxq3647so you want to compete with who then? A kindergartner?

[@heartsofiron4ever]

A trick my supervisor gave me to get extra citations is to attend a lot of conferences. 6 per year, but not to publish conference papers, rather to give presentations, citing or using your own work, because when 500 scholars from your field are watching your research, and also find it interesting, they'll take a note, and likely cite it in the future.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

Not surprised. Most papers are buried. The more you discuss about your work, the more people know about it.

[@Aaron-lp3zt]

"good luck with your papers" - I grinned as I turned back to my overleaf tab

[@sunway1374]

This is the result when universities are run by the business types. Have they asked themselves what values do they bring? Have they evaluated themselves similarly in their appointment, promotion, and salary increment? When the universities need to save money, who are the first persons to get laid off, their salaries becoming stagnant, and their pension contributions reduced? Yep, the academics! Why is it that most universities in the UK now have more administrative staff than academic staff?

[@silphonym]

Yes, universities should be almost entirely public institutions, with two primary goals: 1. To educate 2. To create new knowledge

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

But that's stupid. Why would a business wants to waste money on useless research? Why would they want to compromise the only product they're trying to sell?

[@sunway1374]

​@Lifeonthefastlane007 I think you misunderstand what i am saying. Could it be that you are not aware that universities in english speaking countries are run more and more by people with a business, finance, or corporate background? They don't intentionally jeopardise their products. But they put money making as a priority to the detriment of all else. Eg. Boeing.

[@jgw9990]

​@@Lifeonthefastlane007Why would they allocate so many funds to useless administrative staff

[@richardengelhardt582]

So true. After 50 successful years at the top of academia, I now nouce that 80% of papers submitted for publication are simply rehash of old research by yourself and others, which peer reviewers are so unfamilar with the history of the discipline (due to the avalanche of largely irrelevant papers,) they frequently don't even notice.

[@plazma5343]

My sister is a science loving phd micro biologist. Her thesis is a wonderfull small improvement in the understanding of AIDS, something that most likely will have very positive future applications. The shit she goes through on a daily basis is horrifying. Everyone tells her to go private, but she still believes she can have an impact in public research..... she works endless hours, for a mediocre salary (a criminal one hourly) for game of thrones schemer bosses. It is so infuriating.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

What small improvements? How do you know it's an improvement?

[@yassengorbounov]

A very brave video containing a lot of truth. Few people dare to say this, although many true researchers feel and think it. Publishing a scientific product has become a business model. I visited the ATLAS Experiment at CERN and made the following observations: 1. One of the top authors has published 1,816 papers. If one's professional career lasts 40 years, the calculation says: 40 years X 365 days = 14600 days; 14600 / 1816 = 8 days to publish a paper That means 1 paper is published every 8 days during the entire professional life! That's about 45 papers a year... every year! 2. The same author has an h-index of 167. "The h-index is defined as the maximum value of h such that the given author/journal has published at least h papers that have each been cited at least h times." The top author has 167 papers each one cited 167 times! 3. A paper published by researchers had 78 authors! I realize that CERN is something "big" and quite complex. But... there are 78 authors anyway... Probably all those people are high-level scientists. But... what makes them hyperprolific? Is it real? How is it possible? Is it more for the benefit of science or is it a kind of business?

[@MiauZi69]

Ponzi sceme

[@samchs222]

MLM?

[@user81069]

They probably formed a big group, citing each other, helping each other publish papers.

[@mranderson0075]

I am very glad that my phd advisor is more old-school and doesnt really care if I only publish a single paper before my dissertation as long as my research is sound. I also find the trend to push towards publishing more and more papers (of mediocre quality and questionable novelty) that is coming from the anglosphere quite worrying (I work in Germany). Personally, I don't really see a benefit (for science overall) of publishing every single small incremental step rather than a longer journal article with more meat on the bone (if not even a patent). This also leads to a ridiculous workload being placed on reviewers who do their work pro-bono (and there are 3-4 reviewers per paper). I also don't think that researchers being bogged down with writing papers rather than doing (actual) research is really something academia should strive towards.

[@henriknielsen1662]

The problem is aggravated by the fact that it is often difficult for editors to find qualified academics who are willing to act as peer reviewers. They aren't paid and often remain anonymous afterwards so that they get neither remuneration nor credit for their work. No wonder many academics are unwilling to take on this unpaid work when they already have so much else to do. It is not easy to see a solution to this. Paying peer reviewers would obviously create all sorts of new problems.

[@SuperFalcoFalco]

Not being paid is actually quite the essence of maintaining quality of peer review.

[@pixeljames]

I feel your pain. Went through that at some point. The worst part is you work really hard on something, get somewhere and then you can't even get a conversation about it. Even if you give talks on your paper you will likely never get more than superficial comments. It has to do with how the system is set up, around rock stars, egos and popularity contests. It is fundamentally rigged for people that are narcissistic. It should be about real collaboration, joint discovery and human advancement... but it is a strange system that isn't designed by the people who are actually in it.

[@snesjkksdnuesjjsj]

become anarchist. all is hopeless. the masses are hopeless. there are two species of humans.

[@JaayyRo]

What are the two species?

[@SiMyt848]

Congratulations on the video. I stumbled on it from the YT algo. What you are saying is totally true. I just quit my postdoc for a job in the industry and you cannot imagine how the past months have been so relaxing not having to worry anymore about publishing new papers every second of my free time. I never worked on weekends nor evenings but I was always thinking in my free times about coming up with the next great paper and how to milk more the same models. This is coming from someone that had more than 2x the average paper output during the PhD in my department and have just published my last paper in Nature. I am so glad that I no longer need to worry about checking my citation count on ADS when I turn on the computer in the morning...

[@chuscience]

Congrats on getting a normal job! I am currently the last postdoc remaining in my team. The other 4 postdocs I knew have already left for industry, and feel happy. We'll see how long I will last🙂

[@ryanelam4472]

What is your field, and does your job in industry also involve research?

[@fcolecumberri]

The worst thing is when you see cases of clearly frauds, I remember a researcher's google scholar profile that had 200+ entries on the same year... Like the year has 365 days, was he publishing once every 3 days including weekends? Is not that I doubt he contributed somehow to those papers, I doubt he read half of them. (Also topics were extremely varied, from security based on blockchain to biotechnology using AI)

[@mysteryman480]

I once stumbled upon a paper that had claims in the abstract that were not included or even mentioned elsewhere in the paper. It made me wonder about the quality control standards at that journal (I can't remember the name of the journal).

[@fcolecumberri]

@@mysteryman480 Wanna see something fun? search for a classic method and a new technology (example: Bellman-Ford and Cuda) and watch the countless papers claiming to have "novel approach of the classic method with the new technology" no one has ever done.

[@choppergamer]

100% hes taking obscure journals and yanking them to publish in high impact journals

[@Marvelous771]

Fraud

[@fergalhennessy775]

Rockstar professor with many grad students in a fast moving field, it is possible

[@lorteauerwan8686]

It is indeed a problem that has been discussed for years, but its just an extension of Goodhart's law at the end. Any other metric than publications or citations will eventually lead to the same result where researchers are incentivized to optimize the given metric rather than producing anything else

[@michaeltorrisi7289]

Bad metrics become a more significant problem as entities (because this is a problem in the corporate world, not just in academia) try to quantify performance more and more. There are, of course, incentives for them to do so - it avoids the potential for accusations of favoritism or bias. But it does lead to a lower quality of worker than simply letting managers make their own decisions. That's true even if you take into account the favoritism, bias, and blind spots of managers. The increase in efficiency is small enough that it doesn't outweigh the risk of lawsuits, so metric-based evaluation wins. Or at least, that's the case for large companies. Small companies still rely heavily on their management team to make judgment calls instead of turning them into functionaries. One of the reasons that I'm happier now managing for a smaller company where people would look at me like I was speaking a foreign language if I used terms like "KPI".

[@SeattlePioneer]

What about just frankly and honestly measuring how much MONEY someone is brings in? That would be one metric that would be hard to fudge.

[@andrewcgs]

I always wanted to be a researcher all my life. I quit just before applying for PhD positions when I realized that nothing matters in academia outside of generating revenue, with an out-of-scale competition even for short crappy academic positions, and it is mostly based on publishing papers with no real impact on the world. Every PhD student I know has quit academia as of now. Can academia get more depressing than this?

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

Of course it can get more depressing. With the emergence of AI, many questions in academia will be solved. Possibly, they don't need you and me anymore. But, the bright side is that maybe we do need help from AI, and that's alright. It's old topic now that AI helps more than it didn't. Needless to say, if you're really interested in solving the world's problems you would just solve it even without recognition or payment. But that won't makes sense, because if you look closely, academia, corporations, government still needs researchers, despite AI. It's pretty interesting if you think about it. More innovation simply means more brainwork instead of the opposite. I myself quit research because of lack of grant, but my own hindsight is that I don't even know what to research on in the first place without it sounding stupid. So I just continue studying valuable courses instead of research itself.

[@warpedweft9004]

It depends on your motivation. Some want to do a PhD to satisfy their own quest for knowledge and don't intend to buy into academia at all. They are there for the quest, not the glory.

[@joelfenner]

My experience in academia (broadly) was that only 2 things matter to the "administrative" tier: 1. How much research money are you bringing in? 2. See 1. There is very little actual consideration of the quality of your papers, or the relevance of your research topic or field. They don't even really care that much about the quantity of papers, unless you aren't publishing much, in which case they'll give you the "side-eye" about it. If the incoming money is large enough, even this can be forgiven, at least temporarily. Controversial/moral objections are often swept aside as long as the money is coming in - they only start to care if a public scandal arises (because this hurts donations or grants). But if you are bringing in the money, they really don't care about anything else. You would not believe some of the stories I acquired, sometimes firsthand, during my years in academia (across many institutions). As a student, I never thought academia was THAT mercenary. Maybe it wasn't always. It certainly is now. Your own research colleagues are the only people who care about the substance of your work. In general, "the department" and upwards really only cares about the grant money. And it's soul-crushing to the researchers who are actually trying to do something worthwhile or relevant.

[@profdc9501]

Papers are no longer created to be read, they are created to be counted. The fact that citations, and not its contents, are how a paper is evaluated is the problem.

[@arlieferguson7442]

I can remember professors talking about the study decline in the value and importance of papers as the volume has increased about 20 years ago. They also discussed the decline in the quality of teaching that went along with it.

[@modallas2]

One paper with a 1000 citations, is better than 1000 papers with 1 citation each. Until the system changes to reflect the decline will continue. PS: I belong to the first category. I would not have a chance if I were to apply for a tenure-track position in academia.

[@moumouzel]

you just substituted one bullshit metric for another

[@albaniaalban]

I partially disagree with this notion. While I agree with what I assume is the core sentiment - a bigger focus on quality rather than quantity - focusing on the amount of citations carries much of the same issues. Senior researchers, who often are co-authors of papers, will still see their citations skyrocket compared to their younger peers. Niche research and negative results will be disfavored. Systematic reviews and meta-analyses will be given outsized importance. I don't believe we can ever fully escape the fact that judging researcher performance is always going to be flawed and subjective no matter which metrics you use.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

​@@moumouzel Well, research is full of bullshit metrics. It's what we do, we draw the line.

[@ibozum1]

As an early career researcher I totally agree every word you said. You have summarized and explained very well. I enjoyed listening you. I hope I can see you as a one of the top scientists in the near future. Good luck bro.

[@MohamedTarek-vt4lb]

Very informative! Thank you and hope things got better for you❤

[@leonardodossantosferreira3496]

As a first year PhD student, I relate a lot with what you said in the last comments of the "Publishing pressure" section. The will to be creative and to develop my own identity as a scientist is always trimmed by the pressure to publish in order to advance and achieve "relevant" positions as a scientist. Once I heard a scientist say that our evalutation of academic and scientific merit should not be a process that a computer could do alone, by merely counting some numbers and parameters. I absolutely agree with that idea, but it seems that without a major change, thing will converge exactly to the point where adimissions to post docs, PhDs and even to permanent positions will be made merely through numbers. Great video.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

Just publish the damn thing.

[@danielfigueroa371]

Hi friend, I feel very identified with your video, it really touched me deeply, I just finished a master in High Voltage, published in IEEE top journals and I have the same feeling as you, what a relief to know that there are people who are experiencing the same as one. I really appreciate your video, it would be great to chat one day.

[@Elkatar]

here is a likely solution: If you hold a position in academia while also working part-time in another field, such as industry, you'll find yourself less reliant on academic metrics. The citation system follows an exponential pattern, where older works gain popularity and significantly contribute to an individual's H-index, explaining around 80% of it.

[@johannystrom-persson2966]

I couldn't agree more with your points. Thank you so much for speaking up.

[@moradbali5858]

Thank you for this video dear colleague! There is definitely a need for change. Worth part in all of this is that if you want to have a chance to work in academia, not only you need to publish, but also you need to publish in high ranked journals.

[@kakabudi]

Thank you for making this video. You explained the dilemma beautifully. I am in my junior year of undergrad and I had 1 year of experience working in a lab. The dread that I felt over publishing some paper that barely interested me and still required tons of hours of programming, research of other papers, writing the paper, was exhausting. I respect the decision of someone to want to stay in academia, but I will run far, far away from it.

[@jasonl3254]

I enjoy listening to your insights into academia

[@mitchumsport]

i loved your explanation of the impact on creativity. it has been hard for me to state in the past.

[@llothar68]

I'm out of my german university (Technical University Berlin) since 1998 but what you are telling me was already normal back then.

[@chuscience]

Interesting. I discussed this with my professor, a very senior and respected academic. He says that he built his career 30 years ago, but he is not sure how I could succeed nowadays. He admits that academia has become much more competitive since then, with many more publications, grants, students, etc. Young researchers still have to publish a lot of papers in high-quality journals, but this is no longer a guarantee of a good career and impact.

[@kw1ksh0t]

@@chuscience Famously also Peter Higgs said that he would not have been able to manage in today's academic landscape

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

​@@chuscienceI think things have to do with political climate too. Innovation and science wasn't as good as it now than back then, so your professor was right about him being needed because they're needed to get science to where it is today. On today's climate, I don't think it's impossible. It's up for young people like you to stop whining and just do whatever work needed. Sure, complaining is fun, it made you feel less guilty, however, I'm pretty sure we're aware that in the end, we simply just have to know many things, we need to work on our skills. What skills can you do in research? What are your ideas? If you have decent answer to this, I'm pretty sure you're alright.

[@Lifeonthefastlane007]

​@@kw1ksh0t honestly, I don't see the problem.

[@thefaramith8876]

@@Lifeonthefastlane007 How does it feel to have -110 IQ ?

[@parkerstroh6586]

Awesome video, this is exactly the kind of things I’ve been wondering

[@noone-dv1jo]

I’m not in academia and not sure how this got recommended - very interesting talk about the nuances of academia and how it works. My professor tried to give me a rough summary of industry vs. academia/ professor when I was thinking about my future, but honestly don’t think I’m smart enough for pure academia - but to your point it seems it can be stressful and hard to become successful in academia and not always to focus on developing the models or whatever the paper itself is about

[@afanasymarinov2236]

At times, even when they're referenced, papers go unread. People simply require material to cite in their papers and may extract a few lines from the abstract without fully grasping the content. My most cited paper has garnered over 2000 citations, but I doubt all those authors have actually read it in its entirety.

[@Biondis_Okul]

Without any interruptions he spoke for 21 minutes, such a talent 👏 Know I start reconsidering my goals in the future. Thank you very much Andrey.

[@mrhelli105]

I am a PhD student at the second year of course. Generally I don't write comments on social media, nor I expose myself as I'm about to do. Because of this "publish or perish" mechanism I already lost the opportunity to became a professor in the future. The philosophy of my tutor (and so of the research group I joined) is old style: focus on the application, on the project, on the code, make everything work as best as possible, and finally (after many months or a year sometimes) prepare the paper. In the last months I realised that such philosophy doesn't create succesfull academics nor even professors. When I realised that I felt really bad, because I knew a pretty important door was closing for my future. I'm pretty sure I will not be able to became a professor, and that still bothers me a lot. Your video has been shocking for me. I suddenly realised that maybe the philosophy of my professor is not that wrong. Ok I have to forget the academic career, but still the knowledge and skills that I'm building are precious and valuable. You video changed my mind and my approach. Thank you so much

[@chuscience]

Thanks for sharing your story. You still might be able to get academic positions if you show other things on your CV, for example, various projects you worked on, collaborations with industry, patents, etc. But yeah, it will be difficult. You will be competing with other researchers who have dozens of journal papers. Talk to academics who you know. Maybe they can give you better advice on whether or not to stay in academia. Good luck with your PhD!

[@mrhelli105]

@@chuscience Thank you so much for the advices. You just obtained a new subscriber! You seem a very professional and capable researcher. Good luck for your career

[@0xnika]

Thank you for sharing you opinions on this sensitive point! The only way to win in Academia is by playing the game, until the game breaks..

[@khangau4844]

if Einstein were to live in this era, he would be the lowest-ranked professor lmaooo

[@gauravtejpal8901]

I would be surprised if he finished his PhD, let alone get a tenure

[@ColdNavigator]

We do have a modern Einstein. Yitang Zhang's career trajectory was very similar to Einstein. Failed his PhD, worked in some minimum wage jobs, but ironically, being outside of academia allowed him time to think and develop one of the most groundbreaking results in recent mathematical history. Basically he was a nobody until he produced one amazing paper after decades of private work.

[@MiauZi69]

@@ColdNavigatorand before that he lived as a delivery driver. Great. He also has no kids, because he never could have been able to afford them. So his bloodline is already dead and our human genome more dominated by imbeciles.

[@gauravtejpal8901]

@@ColdNavigator This example shows that our current academic system in not suitable for the creative people with unconventional thinking

[@YazminM2222]

He wouldn't even be a professor 😔 but let's hope for things to get better than this

[@wojpaw5362]

Very insightful, thank you. I am considering doing a PHD but this made me a realise that perhaps working as a research assistant might be better.

[@reginayfavors]

Academia really judge your ability to obtain funding and grant-based resources. Academia will promote someone who can get money over someone with skills. Great video. New subscriber.

[@sunway1374]

It promotes someone who can get money over someone who has a lot of papers too.

[@reginayfavors]

@@sunway1374 Exactly.

[@doghat1619]

Someone who can get money has been successful in convincing an organisation to fund them, that their research would be valuable. A very good researcher who's hyper specialised in a very niche interest that nobody sees the value in will of course struggle to get funding. Funding has to provide some value, simply being good at research isnt providing value.

[@sunway1374]

@@doghat1619 I agree partly with you. One challenge is we often do not know what will become useful (or valuable) or not. Also, what is useful or valuable is debatable in general, and debatable under the condition of limited resources.

[@Talleyhoooo]

Increase grant money, problem solved.

[@promer4690]

Thanks for sharing. I am not in academia but found the topic very interesting and started to watch. Your concerns are spot on.

[@olivermechling7975]

very interesting perspective I have never thought about research in this way before (don't have any experience yet just a masters student). thanks for making the video and best of luck for your future.

[@rituparn1]

Better not get into this grind while you still have time. When you really have something novel, the motivation to publish will automatically come. Only then you publish. Until then, get an actual job

[@georgezakusilo1584]

at least in biomedical sciences the problem is worse. not only certain labs pushing a lot of papers, but often times you start reading an article and realize instantly that it comes from a paper mill and it is an utter and complete BS. What you are learning to do is to go to conferences and see who is actually doing great, breakthrough science and you follow them and their work

[@timng9104]

i am a postdoc in materials, and very similar observations. I feel like a writer more than a scientist sometimes

[@mechatronicsfun4467]

Go to industry. Nobody will ask you for journal publications there.

[@TheAmazingMooCow2]

Once I started my PhD it was quite eye-opening to see how many of my colleagues and other academics in my department had parents/grandparents/other family in academia; not to say there's anything wrong with that of course but with the academic landscape as it is it seems that its a lot harder to succeed without pre-existing connections that know how the game works

[@AsusMemopad-us5lk]

"Of writing many books, there is no end; and much study wearies the mind." - Solomon. Congratulations, modern academia has re-achieved that point.

[@dmitriibochenko4618]

Soft kitty, Warm kitty, Little ball of fur. Happy kitty, Sleepy kitty, Purr Purr Purr

[@ruterrodrigues]

you made my day

[@MarkRuvald]

Stress, prestige, grants, pressure, pay-walls. No to change the world in a meaningful way, you have to have an audience. For long-form content that means blogs.

[@meamzcs]

Imo my main problem with citation count as a metric is mainly two things: 1. if you look at the most cited papers in a field more often than not you will find some overview papers that just summarize prior research at the very top. I mean, yes, those papers are fine and important but without the original research before them they are nothing. 2. Sometimes there's research that is so advanced that only a small handful of other very top notch research groups on earth can make good use of those results even though they might allow for much better results than everything else.

[@qweewqqweewq31313131]

I left the academic path just because the pressure and the over hours I used on “writing papers” are just too huge. Nobody is going to read the paper I wrote then why I am putting so much effort with minimum PhD wages. I left and I am glad I made the choice. My salary is 5 times higher now

[@fractal_gate]

Thank you for bringing this topic to light.

[@alcyonecrucis]

Excellent, hope you get to discuss your paper with others soon 😊

[@trucksanddirt1506]

Excellent contribution. I have thousands of citations, but I know people who never did any work, they don't even understand what is in the paper. They find people who put their names on papers and them. Then they turn around and brag that they are great.

[@ClickBeetleTV]

It also shows what a low premium is placed on teaching and developing students at research universities

[@metalslegend]

Thank you for this reality check. I see some researchers in Psychology cope with this by for example dissect the same dataset multiple times, for different research questions each time. I saw one Post Doc publishing about 20 papers a year, all with the same dataset. Its a weird system.

[@bestpakistan1478]

Dear Sir, I totally agree from your entire discussion. The malpractices are actually common in the academia and lethally crushing the impact factor standards that could produce a change in society. Regards,

[@mohammedyaya0]

I wish someone told me this before I joined academia!! Well said Dr. Andrey

[@modalmixture]

Thanks for sharing your perspective on this. I have noted the overall quality of papers going down the toilet over the last ten years. Even when the research itself is good, the writing is badly in need of an editor; captions contain typos; figures are poorly designed and sloppy. And your comments suggest why this might be - the incentives at work in academia seem to be producing increasingly sloppy science communication as researchers prioritize quantity over quality.

[@a_bar8579]

Specifically the academic field needs as many creative geniuses as you have in 6 years you have discovered all this and this is amazing

[@friendlyboylulea]

Great videa. It's so good that yoy are sharing your thoughts with the public. Having been going through similar thoughts and challenges myself, I have a few points that helped me grab my hand around this whole paper problem: -I saw many equations and I think you work on modelling/simulation. In such mathematical fields, much fewer citations are common because people tend less to rely on other people's models. In contrast, in psychology and human sciences, a lot more citations occur because they have to make their points by citing other qualitative arguments. So, 4 citations for a psychology paper published in 2021 is bad but maybe it is not that bad for your paper given the mathematical nature of your field. - At the end of the day, the number of citations, h-index, etc. do not matter that much. A serious hiring committee often hires experts in your field who read your papers and judge the scientific quality of them.

[@chuscience]

Thanks for the comment. Indeed, I had a few academic interviews recently and noticed that clever academics avoid suspicious researchers with tons of publications. They would rather invite an adequate person with a team mentality.

[@cocs88715]

Got off this academia treadmill two years ago and never regretted. All my fancy high impact factor papers mean absolutely nothing outside of academia.

[@strayorion2031]

I think its time to start discussing alternatives to the metrics used today, actual material things that we can ask institutions to do, to start to walk away to the horrible state of academia today. I havent tought of alternatives but i would like to see the discussion turning into what should academia be, and how do we get there

[@niconeuman]

Very interesting video! I agree with what you say. The measurements have become the objectives

[@carpediemcotidiem]

Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

[@ahmedamanibrahim192]

Thanks so much for this video! I'm planning to start PhD soon, and this was very eye opening

[@chuscience]

Hi! Don't get me wrong, there are many benefits of doing a PhD. But be prepared for the paper game and the limited impact of your publications. Good luck!

[@bennetm9498]

I did my PhD 20+ years ago. I didn't like this game of publishing, so never sought a career in academia. I just curiously opened my Google scholar profile, I got total 2650 citations and still have a steady 100/per year citations. Considering I haven't published anything in last 20 years, so it is not too bad 😀

[@neelotpaldas5616]

Everyone in academia wants their research to have an impact in the real world. Unfortunately impact in real world cannot be measured by citations or impact factor, which academia does.

[@ax5344]

As a practitioner in the field, I do wish there were fewer papers and each could carry higher values. There are just tooooooo many papers for me even to glimpse from. Thanks for opening discussing this issue and sharing your insider observation!

[@martin128]

My friend was also in Phd and he said also that he was quite unmotivated writing papers since nobody will read them. He also had problems with supervisor that had problems with his papers.

[@ade1174]

Thanks for this video. As someone finishing a PhD in chemistry, I was interested in academia when I started, but I'm now looking at exclusively jobs in industry because I am so tired of the publish or perish climate in academia with so many good papers that go unread because everyone is focusing on their own work. My third paper was just accepted for publication, and it's the one I'm most proud of. Even if it gets relatively ignored, I'm happy about the insights that I was able to contribute in it.

[@user-wr4yl7tx3w]

This is really informative

[@roderickdewar1064]

Bravo. This needs to be discussed more openly within and without academia. The rot set in with the marketisation of universities, meaning only $$ matters. Universities no longer prioritise scholarship. They prioritise $$.

[@nickh7681]

This is precisely why I wanted to go into industry despite my love of math. As long as you can create value for your company doing what you love, then you can be as creative and diligent as you would like

[@danimaster6647]

You face similar challenges in the industry. The issue with founding is even more accelerated there and your project can be canceled at any time. Everything is about money (your solution has to be cost effective and easy to implement). Also selling your solutions to stakeholders is even more important than in academia

[@nickh7681]

@danimaster6647 I agree to some extent. It's highly position dependent. If I can fulfill everything my employer asks of me and also generate value with my math projects, then, over time, I can spend an increasing amount of time on such math projects. In fact, I can eventually create a new team within the business. If it's all about money and I generate revenue which we otherwise wouldn't generate, then I earn greater freedom to do what I want to. With regards to stakeholders, that depends on the structure of the company. I've never worked somewhere so small or been so senior such that I'm actively interacting with stakeholders to the extent that they are aware of how I spend my time each month

[@danimaster6647]

@@nickh7681 I also agree to some extend since it's very true that the more value you create the more freedom you have. With "stakeholder" I meant the person who has an interest in your project and is involved in the founding part. In our company there is politics involved where sometimes great ideas are lost and others (which in my opinion) are dead ends are followed because of the opinion of some board members. The ressources which are allocated is also a matter of politics in our company. This isn't to say working in the industry is a bad joice. Above all you get proper money

[@jacksonsmith2955]

mannn this stuff is terrifying. i'm a high schooler with a tentative love of math, but i don't actually know enough math to know exactly where my interests lie or if I'm even good at it, and everything i hear about academia and industry sounds horrific. maybe i should just grab an electrical engineering degree or something instead.

[@nickh7681]

@jacksonsmith2955 If you love math and are good at it, then you have nothing to worry about. Stay humble, work diligently, and don't neglect practical skills like programming, machine learning, data science, etc. Also, don't forget to do the normal career stuff like networking and internships. If you're bright, you'll figure it out. Again, stay humble, be patient, and work diligently

[@testboga5991]

Very wise insights!

[@davip116]

Good points for such a young researcher. One thing I suggest is to avoid focusing too much on tools. Research is not programming nor visualization.

[@jaywacker]

First you're completely right about the diminishing value of papers. There was a joke in physics and the arXiv: The number of papers is doubling every year. If you stack all the new papers, in 10 years, the top of the stack will be expanding faster than the speed of light. This may seem like a paradox, but it's not because only information can't travel faster than the speed of light. I think one thing that you missed out is the publization work for each paper. You need to be inviting yourself for seminars, going to conferences & workshop, talking with visitors. There are 2 reasons for this: 1.) make people aware of your work. No one reads journals like a news paper, people need to be aware of the paper to read it and be influenced by it (and then cite it) 2.) when you notice people aren't engaged in your work, you get feedback and can figure out what people really value and you can incorporate this into your work. You're right pointing out the scam of citation rings. I can also say that in industry, you may want to put in that 3 months of work into a project that will unlock some potential, but you'll get 2-3 weeks to hack it together (then subtracting out the 30% of your time that is used for on-going maintenance, planning, meetings, etc).

[@iancoleman6352]

Thank you for putting your experience on display. It's apparent that you have thought about this and care significantly. I've just started a Master's program and this has given me a lot to think about. If you got a chance to do it over, would you forgo your career in academia to make progress in industry? What is the percentage of published papers not from academia? i.e., people doing research in industry who wish to publish a paper.

[@chuscience]

Hi Ian! I would go for PhD again. During my PhD I travelled a lot and met many interesting people. Eventually, I got to the UK because of my academic work. However, the next question is "Should I stay in academia". And if staying, for how long? There are enthusiasts working in industry and publishing papers. But I see very few such works in my field. My estimation is that in Energy and Power Systems Research only 1% of papers are coming purely from industry. Andrey

[@hosszu2010]

Your creativity point is so true. People love milking out many papers from the same idea. Find a goldmine to make tenure. Other point is p-hacking, very prevalent in social sciences, and the non-publication of null results. Make the whole exercise questionable.

[@freeman1379]

This is exactly why I quit my Ph.D. I have the utmost sympathy for you and anyone finding themselves in this situation.

[@kanao2007]

Congrats!! I've been under constant publishing pressure and useless reportings since 1st yr, in the 2nd yr I started a job secretly so I safely quit . Now in the 3rd yr I am leaving this hell

[@RogovAB]

I believe the key for faster growth is a direct interpersonal communication within the field. The more people (experts) you know in person the better for your citations and further promotions. This is why conferences and workshops are extremely important. When the world is overloaded with information, you should not wait when somebody discovers your works. It is your responsibility to showcase your findings to the community, using social media, youtube and even emails. It is ok to send email to people who may be affected by your new findings. Nowadays everyone who wish to grow needs a brand of himself. This of course put serious responsibilities on, as now you are not a guy from the paper anymore, but the person. Hi, from UoM.

[@chuscience]

True. You have to work hard on your research and papers, but this is often not enough to build an academic career. Personal branding and showcasing research findings have become critical as well. Plus, networking is still extremely important in getting academic positions. I believe that I got my postdoctoral jobs because of networking - many of my previous professors and colleagues were approached to recommend me. I have recently left UoM, but I am still around. It would be nice to chat if you drop me an email.

[@AlFasGD]

Growing up until now, I have started to lose my sense of value for academic literature around this era. Given the recent scandals and the system you describe, it's hard to absolutely trust the results of a paper in any field, unless it's something so easily provable that you can even experiment with it in your own house. Generally, I have lost a lot of trust seeing how society itself behaves, and academia was no exception to this epidemic. You can only keep doing what you truly desire, or quit academia entirely and find your own suit in something that values your presence and does not abide to a broken underlying system.

[@Talleyhoooo]

Criticism in academia is warranted, but completely abandoning trust in published research leans me to think that maybe you haven’t spent much time in the research field in order to justifiably have that stance. Did you watch this video at all? You’re referencing scandals as your reasoning for ‘losing value in academia’ while his issue derives from the intense amount of time and effort in order to meet the level of scrutiny for publishing, and the low gratification resulting from that. Peer review isn’t perfect, but your lack of trust only shows that you probably haven’t been involved with the research field at all.

[@mauricehietkampmh]

I honestly think it's easier to reach more people with your papers by making videos about them. On the That Chemist channel we look at recent scientific publications within chemistry.

[@Laocoon283]

Well that's what happens when you saturate a market: In 2019 55,614 candidates earned doctorates. In 1958, only 8,773 doctorates were earned. On average, the number of PhDs awarded has increased by 3.1% annually since 1958. The quality gets watered down.

[@dfsfsdfd]

I am an auto-didact, coming from an agricultural background, my work is in neuro-symbol networks. Point is, I've been on a team working together on an open-source Arcology project. My colleagues are academics, and I must say it is baffling. I work to make the best system I can, I want my work to be good and solid, trying to make the systems I would want to use in the field. My work I release public domain, seems to me that make sense as impact is my value. I have found this is completely different from their perspective. They seem to see academia and the journals as literally "science". As if the institution itself is science, not just a system build around it. The focus seems to be on funding and getting grants, constantly talking about grants, it is tiresome. They have plans for papers, and a journal, and etc. Like you say in the video, paper publishing and grant acquisition seem the highest priorities. The continued propagation of the institution seems to be the priority of those who are trained by the institution.

[@SuperFalcoFalco]

Thanks for adressing this topic. I have a question: What is an "academic career" and who should be allowed to have one? Only the very best? Everyone who has a PhD and is working very hard ? ..id love to hear your thoughts about how to change the system, and not "play the publishing game"

[@SourishDas]

Dear Andrey: Don't be disappointed. I think whether your paper will be cited or not - will be discussed or not purely depends on how many people are working on a similar or some deviant problem in the area. That is what my experience. If you really want your work to get cited - work on a problem where many people are working. If you work on your own interest where very few people are interested then the chance that your work will be cited is very low. By the way, congratulations on great publication.

[@saalemsadeque9516]

I agree with viewpoints expressed here, having spent over two decades in academia. I have friends who have moved from academia to industry and even though they also work hard, they have the opportunity to learn new things. They also can move from job to job, each time earning more salary. In academia, the salary is low for the amount of work that is put in.

[@realGBx64]

60 citations in 3 years is amazing. What I found very dishartening when I saw that all the citations I get are just general citations in introduction like [12-24] and mine is 18 😂

[@chuscience]

True. I also noticed that my papers got cited in that way, which means that they were selected just because of their titles or abstract/figures, without a thoughtful intention to use/develop my work.

[@erroredhacker]

​@@chuscienceis this the reason why people are so anal about """"good"""" abstracts/conclusions?

[@dizgil6881]

Same here. Out of about 30 citations, probably 5 are from my other work and 20 from general sentences. Then i get the researchgate notification "youve been cited!" Go to read said paper, and im like sooo why did they cite me? Just because it says bayesian in the title i guess

[@semsomify]

I regret starting my PhD, it now all feels like a scam. The university wants me to publish 3 journal papers to be able to graduate, one of them has to be in a reputable journal, and all my supervisor cares about is those papers. The university wants to increase its global rank so it can attract more students and my supervisor as well. It doesn’t matter what the topics of these papers are. Publication is a nasty business too. I regret this path and so happy that I kept my job and my other career path. I probably will never return to academia after I graduate.

[@korbinianmuch7111]

Hey Andrei! Thank you very much for these insights. I am a person who made great use of your fellow paper writer's work. How? I cited tons of articles with the help of sci-hub in my application for public funding of my IT start up. I did not read these papers or only parts, but cited more then 15 or so in 25 pages. I doubt that anybody read the footnotes, but that's how I made use of papers: to get government subsidies.

[@KuopassaTv]

The answer is to do soft sciences -- easier to meet quantity over quality criteria

[@chuscience]

😂😂 I heard some academic discussions that “it is the computer scientists who have spoilt academia. They published a lot, so other researchers had to follow”.

[@leohuang990]

@@chuscience Even in computer sciences, different subareas have drastically different life cycles for publishing a paper. It typically takes 3 months or less to finish a deep learning project while a year or more to finish an operating systems one.

[@erroredhacker]

its just the age of the science. more mature fields have longer history of established practices, higher barrier of entry in terms of novel contribution

[@dedvzer]

I also noticed some sort of idea hijacking, where if you have a good paper and name your finding A, you'll get another paper which discusses A, but proposes an incremental change B. Now that paper gets the credit. Then someonr summarizes an arbitrary category B-E, that gets quoted, and you're out. Maybe everyone wants to get quoted, maybe everyone should quote more 😂

[@henryginn7490]

I just want to say that it is nice to see someone who cares about using vector images in their papers, it feels like many academics are playing a game of not enough jpeg with their figures.