Deconstructing Seifer's Romantic Dream

[@AlleywayJack]

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[@DennGreenIII]

You had it all in the first few minutes. FF8 has quite a few subtle plot threads that tie certain things together without outright saying it. Laguna being squalls father is one of those things, as well as Seifer being inspired by a movie as a kid. That movie is of course "a sorceress' knight", where like you said, is highlighted by Seifer taking inspiration from lagunas gunblade stance, who ironically holds it like that because it's such a foreign weapon to him. Interestingly, Seifer is a gunblade specialist, yet still holds it improperly, which illustrates how much of an impression the movie left on him. The movie is pretty self explanatory, especially considering squall basically lives out the plot of the movie by the end of the game, there are obvious romantic tones at the forefront. People often forget that the characters in the game are just teenagers. Seifer is still essentially an impressionable kid, and he is so inspired by a movie he saw that he wanted to act it out in person, so he just tries to force it when he gets the chance. There really is no deeper meaning than that, but i do appreciate all the subtle details the game gives you to put these things together if you want to want to

[@andreseh87]

Great post ❤

[@Mukation]

Yeah and he grew up at an orphanage after a world war, he clung to a romantic idea of being a knight in shining armour, which Ultimecia used against him when she was controlling the closest thing he had to a mother (Edea).

[@ASteveVaiFan]

I love all the FF8 content you give us. Thank you for your commitment and all the effort that goes into these. I always interpreted Seifer and Squall as Seifer wanting to be someone, and Squall wanting to be no one. Seifer's desperate to be the centre of attention, Squall just wants to be a background NPC but is thrust into leading a mission he wants no part of, but comes to accept it.

[@Book_Bird]

Also loving all the FF8 content!

[@baahcusegamer4530]

It has been 17 years since I played this game and it is wonderful to look back on it through your vids. Until 2024 it was always “the last FF game I actually played.” I have only seen play throughs / cutscene compilations of everything beyond FF9 (which I played before FF8 ironically). Someday soon I hope to get around to FF X/X-2

[@AlleywayJack]

FF10 is very different but certainly has its own charm, I really enjoyed it. Hope you have a chance to give it a go :)

[@shininginthed7435]

So far FF X is my personal favorite. Its themes, lore and world-building are among the best in the franchise IMO. I encourage you to give it a chance. Can't give an opinion about X-2 though as I haven't played it, but from what I can gather it is quite divisive, with many fans considering it a bad fanfiction. The "expanded universe" material (there is a short novel and audiobook only released in Japan if recall correctly) sadly has an even worse reception.

[@klop4228]

​@@shininginthed7435 I found FFX's plot a little unfocused, but overall it's my second place, after IX. I think the consensus on FFX-2 is certainly that the story is a bit dumb haha. Whether the gameplay is enough fun to make up for it is more controversial though - I found it a bit fast-paced and also not that interesting, but I've heard people say they find it super fun. So, yeah, ymmv

[@shininginthed7435]

@@klop4228 That's the main reason I've stayed away from X-2 despite I really enjoyed X. The story on the surface has a "campy" tone that feels off and out of place from the kind of world Spira is in the first game. Some of its ideas look interesting though (such as the feud between the Ronso remnants and the Guado), but they are overshadowed by everything else and overall it feels like an unnecessary sequel that undermines what was a great ending.

[@klop4228]

@@shininginthed7435 I just remember having a kind of bad time for most of the game, and then it autosaved on the bad ending cutscene you get for losing against the final boss. Easily avoided by just reloading the normal save, but still a middle finger to the player.

[@m4r_art]

Seifer attacking the president with a sword in that one scene reminds a lot of the real world assassination of Inejiro Asanuma's by japanese nationalist Otoya Yamaguchi in the 1960s. Google the picture. It tells a bit how much of a reactionary Seifer is. Guided by emotions and ideals instead of social contract. Seifer is Final Fantasy's greatest reactionary trope and good writing. That's why his character leaves an impression regardless whether you like him or not.

[@AlleywayJack]

I remember seeing that photo after going down a rabbit hole of reading after the Shinzo Abe incident. Japanese aren't known for their outspokenness, but when they are they go hard I guess! But great points on why Seifer's good writing... in fact, a point I didn't mention is that after the sorceress dream becomes unsustainable Seifer says to Squall something like 'the knight is gone... I think of myself more a young revolutionary.', plays perfectly to the reactionary trope he embodies throughout.

[@m4r_art]

@AlleywayJack spot on

[@reibitto]

1:13 You're definitely correct in your conclusion that "romantic" in the script refers to the latter definition ("imbued with or dominated by idealism, a desire for adventure, chivalry, etc."). This is because it's basically unambiguous in the Japanese, unlike in English. I mean yes the Japanese script also uses the word ロマンティック which is literally the loan word for "romantic", but the primary definition in Japanese is the idealistic/heroic/adventurous/dream meaning, not the "romantic love" one. No one is going to interpret it as the latter in Japanese in this context. It's actually a pet peeve of mine how the word ロマンティック (or more commonly in the form ロマン/浪漫) gets translated as "romantic" in many games/manga/etc. It comes up a lot but the meaning often gets lost because we don't use the word the same way despite there technically being some overlap in one of the definitions of the word.

[@GlacierRain]

excellent analysis Seifer I feel needed more screen time especially in the opening hours.

[@andreseh87]

I think he needed more screen time over all. Great character design and really interesting character who I wanted to see more of.

[@jacobbush1095]

I never really put two and two together that Seifer kept his memories from the orphanage. Having a romantic dream from a movie he remembers from his youth is one of those subtle things that separates his story from the rest of the party.

[@Mukation]

Yeah it was never really mentionedy. Like if Squall had in their last duel told him that they grew up together only for the reveal to be that Seifer remembered, just like Irvine, it might actually have been a pretty good plot twist.

[@jacobbush1095]

@ you’re right on that being a good plot twist. There’s so much depth here worth fleshing out. Seifer felt like a flat character when playing the game for the first time years and years ago, but I have a new appreciation for him.

[@Mukation]

@@jacobbush1095 yeah in hindsight they should have pushed into the sibling bond between them all more, the only one who gets some sort of resolution to that revelation is Quistis who comes to terms with the feelings she felt for Squall was not romantic, but her love as his older sister.

[@johanandersson8252]

Seifer: No one simply becomes the Sorcessess Knight

[@jazzmousz5992]

Very interesting stuff. I just recently started a new playthrough of Final Fantasy VIII, I haven't played it in a while and I know it gets put on blast so I thought that I would go in with an open eye and the intent of critical analysis and I've found it a really fascinating experience. Seifer especially stood out to me, the complexity of his dynamic with Squall is present immediately from the start. Despite seeming like bitter enemies they reflect and mirror each other in every aspect. When Seifer's death is announced to the party, Squall's immediate reaction is to project himself onto Seifer and think "oh shit that could've been me." They constantly and continuously come into conflict with one another because they are almost identical, they are mirror images of each other, both fighting to justify their existence over the other, the only noticeable difference is probably that Seifer is more willing to give into the romanticism of life while Squall turns his nose up at it. A trait most likely brought on by the fact that Seifer was the biggest and strongest kid in the orphanage and thus nobody was able to take him off his pedestal. The usage of the gunblade's is almost Freudian, these two young men raised without a father fighting to assert dominance in the face of their devouring maternal figure. I think this is also reflected in their struggle with Rinoa (a foil to the other sorceress' in the play).

[@mhicorivera7802]

Well considering that the moment Edea appears Seifer automatically stop and look suprised before he get hypnotized and followed her

[@chrisdillon8376]

I see you've returned to your abrupt ending ways. Well done.

[@Moveset-Mastery]

Seifer was the ultimate ff8 chad, change my mind

[@TheAfterglowProject]

I don’t think that’s a hot take dude.

[@andreseh87]

Chads are wholly unlikable. So you are correct.

[@santiagocabrera]

Dude he was a simp for witches

[@SamJulesGillians]

@@santiagocabrerachildhood nostalgia

[@NPC3.14]

You mean simp? Seifer the Simp

[@bleedingberryjuice]

Seifer Sisters Rise Up ❤‍🩹

[@planescaped]

I never took it as a relationship thing and interpreted romantic in the grand/lofty sense. Like Romance of the Three Kingdoms isn't a Chinese soap opera... well, not in the traditional sense, lol.

[@drkissinger1]

I always thought Seifer's arc was somehow meant to be the key to FF8's themes, but it never quite came out that way due to FF8's messy construction. He comes across like he's meant to exhibit the dark side of juvenile romanticism, in contrast to Squall, which is a really great idea, but like most other things in FF8, it's not given enough time and focus.

[@jairekambui7738]

Squall came out great, it’s other things around him that have execution issues.

[@BranBal]

I saw in another of this channel video that most of Seifer and Edea storyline was cut because of time restrictions, the dev team had basically one year to make a new FF. If we get a remake I hope this cut content makes it to the game

[@azraelknightquest5754]

I think the thing glossed over is how Ultimecia blasted him with the magic to influence him. He doesn't seem to really know where he is and rambles on sometimes. What guarantee is there that Ultimecia couldn't have done that to anyone else? Also, what kind of cut content about Seifer was left out? I would love to know about that.

[@lovepeaceunity1010]

Great video

[@AlleywayJack]

🙏

[@GoeTeeks]

Seifer seems to have used GF during his time at Balamb Garden (you can junction him during the Dollet mission), so probably suffered the same amnesia effects. But once he defected to the Sorceress, he didn't have GF anymore, and after a while the amnesia perhaps wore off (or Ultimecia may have stirred those memories between the end of Disc 1 and end of Disc 2). I have always found the timing of him suddenly chastising them for "going after Matron" to be suspect though, since he doesn't bring it up during his interrogation of Squall or right before the fight Edea at the end of Disc 1, though. So, time away from GFs might be a good explanation.

[@Tyler-h7p]

I love Final Fantasy eight

[@ATG913]

Good stuff.

[@AlleywayJack]

🙏

[@novelezra]

I didn't know this was even a debated topic. I always assumed his romantic dream was to serve as a knight to a queen. To have a strong objective purpose that's rooted in loyalty. Instead of the subjective goals of SeeD which for as far as I am aware, he didn't even get to find out what they were until he left

[@solidsnake246]

Yeah. We have Real problems....

[@shawnnbits]

Consider this: FF8s storytelling and character work outside of Squall is really lacking and maybe no one really thought that much of the easiest recurring boss fight in the series.

[@Negetive2digit]

Seifer directly says that being a Knight has always been his dream before the first Edea (Idea aka Mom in the Japanese version [not sure why English dubs always have to make Japanese people be all formal with their parents when they weren't; Sephiroth got the same treatment when they changed his calling JENOVA mama to mother]) fight and then Squall directly puts it together in the torture scene after Seifer makes more implications. I guess, yeah, Seifer never outright says "this is my romantic dream, you know, the one I said I'd tell you about back in Dollet" but he does actually elaborate on it, even if he doesn't go into much detail.

[@rosaheartlily]

I've always found Seifer a far more compelling character than Squall. Seifer is fighting FOR something, whereas Squall just finds himself drawn into the situation. Squall's extreme introversion traps him inside his own head, whereas Seifer wants to express himself in the outer world. It's just another reason why this game continues to fascinate.

[@Fauntleroy.]

I enjoy all of your content but your FFVIII content most of all. I agree with everything you say here except, is there reason to assume that Seifer does not use or has not used GF? I would think that, as a longtime SeeD candidate and squad leader, he would be well trained in the use of GF. Personally, I always assumed that Seifer had lost most of his memories as well, but that Edea helped him to remember when he came under her spell, long before Irvine brought their shared past up to the others.

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

Brainwashing and memory repression is a big theme in ff8. The entire public becomes brainwashed by Edea early in the game... The entire party has extreme memory repression where they dont even remember growing up together in an orphanage. This just adds more fuel to the fire regarding how Rinoa eventually forgets who she is as Ultimecia...

[@tonyk2027]

I'm unsure if this is covered at all but it's interesting how powerful Seifer is without the need of GFs. How does he use magic?

[@AlleywayJack]

He has an ability called chi that isn't covered in any depth in-game. I'm still not sure how Galbadian infantry use magic though 😅

[@Nigel222]

This game gets a lot of hate for its writing but it uses a lot more subtlety than any other FF game.

[@IronCodyAlan]

Helllllll yessss

[@AlleywayJack]

🙏

[@williamzeo2493]

FF8 plot is one that I come to like as an adult, because they are a bunch of teenagers behaving like teenagers lol, so I can relate now. Squal is done dirt the entire game 😔being manipulated by everybody.

[@minakohiashi8882]

I think FF8 is the game that most needs a Remakes its convoluted but also very weird. or never explained Remember Squall got impaled by ice? well hes fine. So the Guardians might have a healing factor but what if you never equp a GF? Or Squall is actally dead. Disc 1 is boringly normal. as the world has monsters but it still feels like real life in the 50s or 60s the game gets weird in disc 2 Squall really could be dead

[@andreseh87]

Ff8 has some excellent set pieces and really interesting ideas that deserve better exploration. I’m with you. I’d love to see this remade with the 7 remake treatment.

[@PlaystationMan-e3p]

I feel like they should have dabbled into an adventure with this type of story telling. same characters ,same, plot. only much more better fleshed up characters? an point and drag adventure of sort?