DEF CON 31 - The Internals of Veilid, a New Decentralized Application Framework - DilDog, Medus4

[@Sulayman.786]

I actually thought of an app like this (tor plus ipfs) but wasn't able to code it. Massive thank you for your work, and, I believe, moving humanity forward.

[@d3rtn4p48]

Yup, was about to say the same. Why not internet that's napster? All the connectogoodies without all the legal issues.

[@xplinux22]

I absolutely love this project and the ideas behind it! I am a bit confused as to how it differs from I2P design-wise, though. This approach of taking different routes for incoming and outgoing traffic, as opposed to Tor which routes bidirectional traffic over a single tunnel, seems superficially like a standard garlic routing approach (distinct from onion routing), though perhaps there are some important details I'm missing. The Rust-based tech stack and modern cryptographic techniques seems like a great improvement over I2P, for sure, and the mobile-first approach is certainly to be applauded. However, I was still a bit surprised to see the entire talk went by without a single mention of (or comparison with) existing garlic routing systems like I2P which appear to operate on similar networking principles. In any case, I'm definitely gonna be building Veilid on my machine later today. I really hope it catches on! Great talk, folks. 😄

[@paxdriver]

I'm guessing i2p is less traverse able to browse, by my understanding. But to me that sounds like a portal problem more than anything. Does i2p maybe have special nodes? Maybe that's the difference?

[@bonce]

if it doesn't throw a ascii cow on a out of memory error, I will be sad.

[@katelynbowden1]

We are going to work it into the messaging app thanks to this comment!

[@MikeTrieu]

​@@katelynbowden1w00t!

[@pelic9608]

Looking forward to the first ever note taking app that comes with device sync that just works. 👌

[@ArneBab]

5:31 (Design Goals) and 22:30 (Content Addressable Storage): Sounds like Freenet / Hyphanet in Opennet mode (the less secure mode of use), except for "Low Latency". Freenet / Hyphanet has been in continuous, practical use for 23 years and has been enabling higher levels of privacy since 2007.

[@Lee-wh3ht]

“Stop being dependent on corporate systems”

[@Cooliofamily]

The anarcho communist symbology couldn’t be lost on anyone. It’s beautiful.

[@turnipcannon]

I regret being asleep in my hotel room and not seeing this live

[@MaverickBlue42]

I remember actually taking part in the mid to late crosspost wars of usenet against scientology in the late 90's(I got dragged in by the crossposts that hit AGRA and AGTS, which several of our members encouraged participating in, despite accepted typical usenet behaviors and conventions, but there were also those from AGSC, the Adjective Army, etc...), I'd actually completely forgotten about the existence of CDC in the intervening times, good to see they're still fighting the good fight.

[@MikeTrieu]

I was set to go all "But, but, but, PQC!". They covered crypto algorithm agility. Excellent, they pretty much thought of everything! Why did i think the cDc would be anything but bulletproof?

[@theograice8080]

I always wonder whether I2P would take off, as I hope this should, should it offer an API for managing the address book to client programs. Great work! I'll look into this. I would love to see Veilid used for a GraphQL-/RDF-flavored ICN so that applications could typify and publish their data to be reused by peers that understand the data. This would allow every application to become a controller for its own scheme of data serialization in the ICN, and peers could query the ICN for data respective to particular applications and additional vernaculars understood by the requesting peer.

[@JiffyCakes]

Finaaaaaaly!!! I was waiting on this ever since the Veilid announcement made it to hackernews. Funnily enough I literally started doing a `cargo build` for veilid-server on OpenBSD-current just before jumping on youtube only to see this video lol.

[@s0kulite]

Smart

[@MrJballn]

I was wondering when this free floating concept was gonna be coalesced, look at y'all goddamned doing it. NFTs died this week, long love NFTs.

[@quickmythril2398]

this really reminds me of Qortal, with a bigger focus on privacy. though you can run Qortal over VPN or Tor. i have not tried over I2P, but that should work, as well as Veilid when it's ready.

[@bowlerhatfromspace]

stop shilling blockchain projects you are involved with in discussions of other software. warning to all, this person has, in many forums and communities, shilled and promoted their qortal blockchain project. they are not to be trusted and their goal is to trick people into buying their crypto coins.

[@ZedaZ80]

Oh that route trickery is so clever :0

[@boneappletee6416]

Awesome, fantastic work and great talk!

[@tdtrecordsmusic]

Cool ! im with it . Sounds like a new protocol.. but exists on top of other protocols... kinda like a hyper-visor, but more like hyper-protocol. It woulda been cool to get some numbers, but maybe since its soo early they say its more of an idea ... well... whatever the case, they chose not to say

[@craigslist6988]

This is so bizarre, I literally drew out the 'compiled route' logic the other day while trying to figure out a different but apparently related problem. Looking forward to seeing this in action.

[@accountname1047]

This is incredible

[@goblinnnn]

excited to see if this works out!!

[@DdesideriaS]

spam/flood/DDoS control?

[@moses5407]

Where is the private/public routing code section on gitlab?

[@gljames24]

This is really exciting and I can't wait to see what this enables!

[@jonnoMoto]

If the the "veilid server" is unavailable, that means no new users/clients can use veilid? I guess that's better than no one can use veilid.

[@isaiahj3968]

How is this different (or better) from Iroh?

[@gantha]

Great talk, will definitely check out veilid for use in future projects!

[@tuurblaffe]

OHMAHGOD! nothing else to say. VERY IMPRESSIVE!

[@jmrumble]

Unintended upgrades… love it 😂

[@RSZA011]

This is really interesting ! time to try it out

[@TeamJackassTV]

This was such a great talk! Thank you!

[@onejdc]

This got me super excited. I'm slightly concerned about the (admittedly minimal) use of DNS for the bootstrap. I suppose it makes sense, I would just hate to see everything get crapped on because of that one call. (Not gonna stop me from doing a git clone, though :P ) Great work.

[@Lee-wh3ht]

Explain how this effects dns I’m wondering how it changes in this situation

[@catch_me_outside_how_bout_dat]

seems like they would have made an option available for bootstrapping with keys you bring in yourself.

[@Crobisaur]

This is so awesome I can't wait to learn more about this

[@AgentEm34]

So it's like a modernized version of I2P

[@elmehdiezziar]

Thanks for the information 😊

[@moses5407]

How to get access to veilidchat???

[@fire17102]

Sounds incredible, how easy will it be to make an anonymous browser (like Tor) with Veilid? Thanks and all the best!

[@jan-Juta]

Doesn't really seem to be the design goal

[@MikeTrieu]

​@@jan-JutaWell, why store anything on Veilid if there's no browser to view it? Tor started much the same way as Veilid with just the raw routing nodes. But eventually, if you want real people to use this privacy layer, real apps will have to be built that are Veilid-aware.

[@asandax6]

@@MikeTrieu apps will pop up soon.

[@gmt-yt]

"Transactional protocols" ... you keep using that word...

[@ricardoruiz3986]

Does anyone else think this sounds like piper net from Silicon Valley lol

[@thecircuitbox]

Like cruella and skeletor at the podium.

[@SALTINBANK]

NSA left the channel ... Just kidding new challenge for them ...

[@pedrows498]

Very interesting

[@x01xoo19]

This is very very interesting. Definitely worth to read the documentation

[@aquahoodjd]

Sweet intro!!!!

[@SuprBestFriends]

This sounds sick

[@neversettle369]

nice !

[@Fosgen]

This is the way

[@aiworldwide23]

Love it

[@ingusmant]

IPFS was such an overhyped bunch of nothing...

[@PCMcGee1]

I love idealism. I love the gurgling sound it makes as it drowns under a monetary incentive system.

[@bkthegh0st]

my man, did we watch the same video?

[@AngelLoredo53]

Would you say this project has the ability to overcome is oh so common issue? For more than a few people to build serious complex apps, money would have to be involved eventually.

[@telotawa]

is Medus4 wearing latex leggings? thats badass

[@katelynbowden1]

They’re faux leather but thank you!!

[@telotawa]

@@katelynbowden1 ah, still looks great!

[@chrisspencer6502]

This is very exiting but it is predicted on the idea that everyone has an unlimited data plan on their cellphone. Unfortunately, for those that need privacy data is a hard to come by commodity.

[@FastRomanianGypsies]

It's peer to peer so you wouldn't (shouldn't) be using cell data. Assuming there are enough peers in between so you can communicate with your target address...

[@MikeTrieu]

Here's hoping their resiliency mechanism has a store-and-forward mode for intermittent comms. Would really be useful for organizing protest events where everyone really should turn off their phones in order to not get trapped by a retroactive geofence order.

[@FirstName-hd7ss]

Defcon became an agenda platform for rust?

[@geronimo7044]

When will an official messaging app be available?

[@user-xl5kd6il6c]

woman with green hair yeah, I'm not that sure about this one chief

[@Krazy0]

Bruh, another p2p but enforcing support, I'll probably use it and block seeding lol

[@vectorhacker-r2]

Then it doesn't work!

[@opcode114]

Feds

[@katelynbowden1]

Haha, not remotely but alright

[@sanantohomie]

lol stay mad

[@user-xl5kd6il6c]

full of trannies, so it wouldn't surprise me they were Feds tbh This is basically a worse I2P/Tor, they have no servers and want most nodes to be mobile phones with shit connections They even flamed Elon Musk, as if the dude had anything to do with Big Tech or server infrastructure. "Evil Capitalism am-I-right?" "He bought my Twatter" It's incredible they are this in the open with propaganda nowadays

[@user-xl5kd6il6c]

full of rust tr oons, so it wouldn't surprise me they were Feds tbh This is basically a worse I2P/Tor, they have no servers and want most nodes to be mobile phones with shit connections They even flamed Elon Musk, as if the dude had anything to do with Big Tech or server infrastructure. "Evil Capitalism am-I-right?" "He bought my Twatter" It's incredible they are this in the open with propaganda nowadays edit: Can't even criticize a project nowadays without being censored

[@user-xl5kd6il6c]

full of rust tr-o‎ㅤns, so it wㅤoㅤulㅤdn't surpriㅤse mㅤe they were Feㅤds tb‎h This is basically a worse I2P/Tor, they have no servers and want most nodes to be mobile phones with shit connections They even flamed Eloㅤn Muㅤsk, as if the dude had anything to do with Biㅤg Teㅤch or serㅤver infrastㅤructure. "Evil Capitaㅤlism am-I-right?" "He bouㅤght my Twㅤatter" It's incredㅤible they are this in the open with prㅤopaㅤganda nowaㅤdays edit: Can't even criticize a project nowaㅤdays witㅤhout being ceㅤnsored

[@DoctorMandible]

"If we get our parents off Facebook, we're all free." Proof that this project is being led by children. What an idiotic thing to think. Were pre-Facebook societies free? If that's her goal, this is already doomed.