DEF CON 31 War Stories - Living Next Door to Russia - Mikko Hypponen

Russia is the world’s largest country. I’ve lived all my life in Finland, about a hundred miles from the Russian border. Finland has learned to live next to a very large and very unpredictable neighbor. Both my grandfathers fought Russia in the second world war. Today, Finland ranks as one of the least corrupted countries in the world, while Russia ranks as one of the most corrupted countries. How is that even possible?
As Russia has grown more aggressive over the last decade and as it violently attacked Ukraine, attitudes about neutrality changed quicky in my home country. When Finland joined NATO in April 2023, NATO more than doubled its land border with Russia - which is probably not what Putin had in mind.
This talk will summarize the developments of the Russian cyber programs and about Russian patriotic hacker groups that got us into where we are today and makes educated guesses about where Russia will be headed next.

[@dmitrym3757]

Thank you for repeating the questions out loud, because those can barely be heard. Great speech, thank you!

[@motionthings]

"He who laughs last probably has a working offline backup" -me

[@ClassicRiki]

What if the malware sits idle long enough that you will have backed up before it executes?

[@motionthings]

@@ClassicRiki You never backup executable files, you only backup data

[@ernestsdane3510]

​@@motionthingsUnless you have backed-up a .webp meme of a cat :)

[@fadmad7257]

Argument makes no sense when you have no security foundations in your infrascture and application, you'll be restoring a vulnerable backup.

[@motionthings]

@@fadmad7257 Then you don't have a working backup do you? :p Like I said in a previous comment. You backup data, not code. Code is kept in a source control system like git or Perforce. If your scenario happens, you have failed at dev-ops. If one of my servers start doing unusual activities, like a lot of writes over a short period of time (ransomware), it will run a script to stop online backups/replication and send me a notification. If my source code was compromised I would step through the commits and find where the exploit was introduced and revert to a "known good version".

[@NeverGiveUpYo]

I simply love this dude. What a great talk!

[@moonasha]

great talk, great speaker, glad I clicked this video. I didn't think I'd watch more than a few minutes but I paid attention the entire time

[@ExTechOp]

The two Finnish words missing from the subtitles: 1:30 Saukkonen 25:16 Herrasmieshakkerit

[@PexiTheBuilder]

Nice to see Mikko talk in DEFCON, torille!

[@pplz]

Amazing talk, attitude, vibe. Love this guy, best defcon talk i've seen in a minute!

[@NuttyGeek]

Wow! Impressive story, Mikko! Thank you for comprehensive covering of the brought up lively topic.

[@moonasha]

translation for those interested at 24:30: "I'm not buying Estonian goods. I'm against fascism." Nice to know the russian playbook of calling everyone you don't like a fascist hasn't changed since 2007...

[@zoladkow]

umm... more like since Barbarossa 🙃

[@djnikx1]

Maybe cos Estonians join Nazi Germany during WW2.

[@TheBinaryHappiness]

more like Russia is the only country resisting the great GAE greetings from the biggest country in the world

[@JGnLAU8OAWF6]

Very wise to judge everything by one picture (which even might be a meme).

[@intifadayuri]

Aren't the baltic States like unironically very proudful of their fascist history? To this day they still hold parades for former SS members 💀

[@peccantis]

Helsinki and Tallinn are very close, but not the closest capitals in the world when Kinshasha and Brazzaville exist on opposite shores of the Congo river. They're not even the closest in Europe: Bratislava and Vienna are 55 km apart.

[@billybob7891]

Relax.

[@EnvyAnker2393]

This was an amazing talk. Thank you for doing what you do!

[@thedudegrowsfood284]

i would like to thank Linus Torvalds for my laptop's operating system

[@everythingexplained]

Great talk! Finlands Sisu is admirable!

[@chloefletcher9612]

I have been a fan of Mikko for as long as I can remember - he was a guiding light inspiration back when I was a teenager and he still is.

[@m4ng4n]

Amazing talk as always, this guy never fails to deliver

[@johanngambolputty5351]

Great talk!

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

During the first weeks of the war I was monitoring Meshtastic nodes that would come online with MQTT, a LOT of new nodes sprung into existence back then and after I showed a screenshot as "proof" in a certain Discord group... they swiftly went offline. This was quite humorous, default configuration devices connecting to the internet and sending out GPS coordinates :D

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

The document at @30:37 from the Netherlands says nothing about exploits!

[@thehaguefortnite_163]

Impressive talk, greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱

[@intifadayuri]

Free Palestine

[@philipsinnott6681]

This is such a great talk.

[@mpopovych]

great talk

[@robertbruce7686]

Excellent presentation 👍

[@robadzso]

Good stuff. Sisu right there.

[@Ye4rZero]

There's no better speaker than Mikko

[@Maxxxxi86]

This guy is a legend, proud to shaken his hand a few years ago

[@BtXFWkyZBtXFWkyZ]

Смотрим, запоминаем :)

[@Slugbunny]

It's a different reality when you're next door to such an active neighbour.

[@faustteufel9727]

I remember "The bats from hell" virus that attacked the batch files using a floppy disk.

[@steiner254]

Mikko

[@haczyk84]

C64 also my first computer :)

[@xscitobor1233]

25:12 how do you spell that podcast? and where can we listen to it?

[@xscitobor1233]

Found it It's Herrasmieshakkerit, now I wish there was an English version :P

[@diabl0r]

@@xscitobor1233 I think they got at least one English episode as "Gentlemen Hackers with Toomas Hendrik Ilves".

[@arishtat66]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHPTZ2mdirqaoqs

[@beforever]

Emil Saucannan for the inaudible CC at 1:30

[@JanSmetana]

23:18 check Bratislava (Slovakia) vs Vienna (Austria), but I get the message. Thanks, interesting lecture.

[@JGnLAU8OAWF6]

"Nation that needs a strong leader" is a bit strong, history doesn't define future.

[@gryzman]

video is loading from floppy :P

[@makedredd299]

🇫🇮 👾

[@raymond_luxury_yacht]

I wonder what ed snowden gave up to be able to stay.

[@adamkencki]

bratislava and viena are closer

[@fontende]

In China communist party expropriated nation and sitting very sturdy there, it's hard to separate them. In Russia is a one-man system without even party, whole system time = equal lifetime of this man, after such man everything changes, you need to be blind to ignore one-man influence living in Finland before 2011 when Putin steps back under Medvedev presidency everything Kgb related collapsing, incredible liberalisation, that was quite a unique example in history when former dictator even returns back into power viewing how others destroying his kingdom of sorrow, only proving how too liberal it all was that they wasn't able to lock or move away old dictator. It's really sad to see such lack of education in Europe, high school books materials about simple political systems.

[@JGnLAU8OAWF6]

And Medvedev was mostly a puppet

[@zoenagy9458]

a bit late to NATO isn't it?

[@PexiTheBuilder]

Waste of money, bad choise :/ Russia would lick their wounds so long, Putin dies before they recovered from Ukrainian war, and then we have nothing to worry about.

[@classicallibral5903]

@@PexiTheBuilder Come back here in 5 years

[@XantheFIN]

It isn't about protection. Its politics more.

[@Lockdown335]

@@muuraaja-e5k Ew why would they want anything to do with them LOL

[@RanEncounter]

​@@PexiTheBuilder What do you mean? The increase in GDP spending was miniscule as Finland uses already a big chunk to the Defence Forces.

[@merseyviking]

He neglected to mention that Finland was an ally of Germany during the Continuation War. Granted it was a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kinda situation, but still.

[@nomindseye]

What's your point? I mean, really, what's your point? I mean, you could say anything like that "Norwegians used to have institutional slavery. Granted, it was with Vikings, but still." That means nothing and has no point. Just like your sentence.

[@merseyviking]

@@nomindseye Because he talked specifically about Finland's role during the second world war, but didn't mention that they were allies of Germany between 1941 and 1944 during the Continuation War. So I would say it was pretty relevant. Unlike your comment.

[@HaraldBang]

In the winter war, Soviet Union was an ally of Nazi Germany.

[@m4ng4n]

@@merseyviking How is it relevant for a farmer with kids? Even if they lived in Berlin it'd have been the same.

[@apple_with_a_human_butt]

that is a very loaded and somewhat misleading take. when russia invaded finland, they had a non-agression pact with the nazis (and for dividing europe). finland was "supported" by some western countries. between the end of the winter war and the start of the continuation war, the nazis betrayed russia and russia allied with the allied forces. finland knew it will get invaded by either russia OR germany, because finland was located in a strategically significant part of europe. finland would've not been helped by the allied forces, because russia was allied with them. so finland had to make a deal with the nazis. but finland was never a part of axis forces. unfortunately making a deal with them didn't remove the fact that they had to re-enter the war. so as part of the deal, finland attacked russia with the nazis. eventually the nazis started to lose the whole war, and russia had built its war machine enough to the point that finland could no longer hold the lines and lost the war. as part of russian demands, finland drove german forces out of the country (lapland war). finland's part in WW2 is very unique and complex. so NO, finland didn't align with the nazis and it wasn't really about 'the enemy of my enemy...' etc. it was about doing what could be done in order to not get annexed by the germans and invaded by the russians with zero support from anybody. the finns are not proud about this part of the history. but it had to be done in order to have any hope of keeping independence and to avoid as many deaths as possible. finland kept its independence and to this day is the only country of all WW2 nations, that paid their reperations in full. finland was also never brought to any western war courts after WW2. hyppönen didn't leave it out to hide it. he left it out because it was essentially irrelevant to the story, which was about russian actions towards finland.

[@ilyesatmania6510]

so hypocrisy to the bone

[@bestintentions6089]

Finland still flies hakenkruz tho 🤣

[@Frostyfication]

No, no and no. It's the N's who ruined the ancient symbol that was used in many cultures - Finland included - way before the guy with the funny moustache twisted it 45 degrees and turned it into the fascist symbol most people know it today. To stop using the ancient version of the swastika would be like giving up and admitting it would remain a N symbol forever. Please stop insisting that we should.

[@ConstantlyDamaged]

@@Frostyfication It was interesting that my local state (Victoria, Australia) has created legislation that bans specifically the N version of that symbol-but very specifically allows all other uses. It's terrifying when lawmakers actually seem sane. It makes me worried that I am losing it and they just appear sane _to me._

[@nyandyn]

Yes, the one we flew since March 6th 1918.

[@TheBinaryHappiness]

yeah and they military pledge still quotes emperror Alexander the 3rd - back when Finlandia was a Russian backwater province who we had to protect from the swedes they had their money and autonomy, but you know how it goes with little dogs who bark the loudest

[@matvei8829]

Dude, how traumatised one needs to be to somehow see all the e-evil in the world be coming from Russia?

[@dinhomhm]

Mr. Mikko, the same is what Russia is doing in Ukraine, the US/UK/Israel are doing in Palestine. But why we don't see people from the West as neutral!? and close their eyes on some cases. Isn't that racism?

[@tx-ur4qw]

You’re right. We don’t give a $hit about brown people.

[@dallysinghson5569]

Nope, not the same.

[@lancemooney8291]

Why are they giving applause at the moment he said he lives in a "NATO country?"

[@MadeAnAccountOnlyToReplyToThis]

Because DEFCON has become an extension of the establishment and WILL tow the line.

[@intifadayuri]

Because they get their political beliefs from Reddit memes. Don't expect much political literacy from DEFCON. Sure you have some guys who are pretty much anarchists but most of them are hardcore libs 100% aligned with the US empire agenda

[@dallysinghson5569]

Because it means Finland has backup if it gets attacked. It also goes to show that Russia never really saw NATO as a threat as Russian troops decreased in number near Finlands border after it joined NATO. And it's a big F U to Russia.