Delayed Blowback PCC | LWRCi | Shot Show 2024

Andrew and Scott take at look at LWCRi’s new IC-9 9mm PCC and the innovative delayed blowback system!
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[@RichardCranium321]

I thought "ring delayed blowback" was what you got from your girlfriend for not asking her to marry you.

[@aaronj08ar]

Ha!

[@johncastorina8310]

HAHAHA!🤣

[@jackjohnson291]

I was thinking more along the lines of a “wrong hole” comment.

[@draco-amercon]

👏🫡

[@AJohnSmith]

@@communistsaregross3165No.

[@ReversePolarity5]

Was that an actual LWRC rep or a spectator that you grabbed to stand in while he was passing by?

[@brian.louis107]

$2000 for a PCC is a joke!

[@Heath3250]

Laughs in JP5

[@jyro6368]

So it deforms all your brass as a feature?

[@ohschmitt8835]

I mean to be fair, reloading 9mm isn't really super economical anyway

[@machinesandthings7121]

Ya, I wonder what happens when the brass fails? Maybe after running the same reloaded brass 4 or 5 times. Dose it break at that point and jam up?

[@DinoNucci]

​@@machinesandthings7121if you reload 9mm you need a job

[@asador7922]

@@ohschmitt8835if you own your brass, it about $60 per 1,000 rounds cheaper to reload; I ran the numbers last night. But as I told all my friends during COVID, it’s not a cost issue, it’s an access issue. None of my reloading friends dropped below 10k rounds.

[@ZombiePanda1776]

@@machinesandthings7121 3-4 times is about all you want to reuse brass anyway. Obviously it's a case by case (pun maybe intended? lol) basis. But after 3-4 times a lot of brass would be culled anyway. I'm not supporting this brass deformation method... just adding clarity to the reloading aspect. Cheers

[@steveninaz9576]

Thank you Sir I love how you had to explain the lwrc operating system to the lwrc rep. Explains a lot about their customer service. Lol

[@bobhead229]

I thought "ring delayed blowback" kept a fart from turning into a shart

[@papajon-1000]

I’m loving the options for 9mm pcc. I’m in the camp that doesn’t love the felt recoil of delayed blowback 9mm over 5.56. Just always makes me shake my head

[@mobilegamersunite]

308 or bust!

[@Painterrap]

My initial concerns with a system of delayed opening, such as the example here, would be the integrity of the extractor over time. As the brass expands into the rings or groves it’s going to inevitably increase the amount of force that’s required to reliably extract the cases.

[@roflchopter11]

Blowback guns often don't even need extractors. Several of the Beretta 32 ACP handguns don't have them and people end up blasting themselves because they trust the extractor that doesn't exist to remove the case from the chamber.

[@JohnZ556]

Don't forget aluminium and steel cased ammo. 😂Imagine steel case get stuck OR don't deform therefore turn it into a direct blowback with too little bolt mass. What about dirt and debris? Chamber and extractor service life are very concerning for sure. Lastly, manufacturers please stop making PCCs with a huge AR buffer tube. I might as well take a DDM4 PDW at that point.

[@rapple2814]

@@JohnZ556Agreed and on all points plus way too pricey for a pcc.

[@joshuamasterson7677]

I just don't understand pcc's period. If I want to be quiet I can sling 220 grain blackout if I need "horsepower" I can go with supers... Is this a ammo peasant joke I'm too ammo rich to understand?

[@124thDragoon]

in a gun like this - without a gas system - the bolt/carrier isn't "pulling" on the case. The case itself is "pushing" on the bolt face, so there wouldn't be any additional force on the extractor. In fact, a ton of straight blowback systems (and delayed blowback systems by extension) run quite reliably without an extractor at all. The ejector is typically more important for them.

[@maxcole3930]

I just got the CMMG Dissent MKG 9 last week. The lower takes Glock mags, radial delayed blowback, compact action so it has a folding brace & no buffer tube, 6.5" barrel, + cerakote. It's best pcc 9mm on market in my opinion!!! It shoots super smooth compared to my FM 9mm AR that's traditional blow back. I should had gotten one sooner! Perfect truck gun & fits in a small backpack with ton of room to spare

[@DinoNucci]

Correct

[@JNOSNOW]

I have a MKGS banshee and would love to put this upper on my lower. Maybe then I would have a good smooth running gun with no problems except the problems with my lower lol

[@maxcole3930]

What problems do you have with the banshee? So far 500 Rd count in my Dissent has had zero malfunctions. My buddies banshee 45 runs great also

[@JNOSNOW]

Failures to feed, failures to eject, it's eating up the ejection port, ejector spring issues, bolt locking back mid magazine constantly because they over drilled the springs pocket for the bolt hold open so it's floppy, it won't feed most hollow points, have been getting dead trigger lately because of bolt bounce so I swapped out the carbine SCS and put an H2 SCS in it and it does it half as much, and the in house zero controls feel poorly designed. It's just completely unreliable and they will do nothing to help me cause I'm in Washington State and there is nothing illegal about fixing their shitty product. They won't even sell us parts which is perfectly legal, so I'll just never buy CMMG shit again.

[@DinoNucci]

@@JNOSNOW user error

[@josh48315]

Rep for LWRC and he called that a Nitride finish? It’s gotta be the traditional LWRC NiB or some type of NP3/NPE coating. Also called it NP3 tested when I assume he meant MPI. Lol poor guy has no clue

[@abledemo1]

Yea he definitely has no clue what’s going on with this gun. Or how to sell it.

[@magoid]

Since the brass will be dragging in the chamber, how many rounds they expect it will last? Also, there is any restriction in the type of ammo you can use?

[@Jrtowns1]

Seems like steel case may definitely be a no go.

[@hyphydan]

@@Jrtowns1 Softer Steel

[@spektr540hemi]

Blazer Aluminum ... ?

[@mikereese15]

Andrew do you take glock mags?😂

[@justme_gb]

I don't care how much you love the Chesapeake Bay, there is no reason to take a job in Maryland voluntarily. I don't understand why LWRCi is still there.

[@556ChannelHD]

I wish it didn’t take Glock mags, just hate the angles when used in PCC applications

[@124thDragoon]

$1999 for the least effective form of blowback delay. That must have been some high quality coke.

[@mattrobson3603]

While I'm not a machinist or gunsmith, this design's chief advantage over other delaying mechanisms is simplicity. No extra parts over a straight blowback, just some extra milling in the chamber to make the rings. Which means that this gun should, in theory, cost about the same as a blowback design but with the advantages of reduced weight and recoil. Two grand for it is kind of a lot.

[@kirkchartier7141]

**Sounds like the brass is not going to be reloadable, if it's been deformed.

[@Paladin1873]

It may be loadable, but this isn't going to help extend case life.

[@DinoNucci]

If you're reloading 9mm you need a job

[@gebeme11]

How does it like steel or aluminum case ammo? I get that if you're buying a $2K gun from LWRC you're probably not shooting Tula, but still.

[@-The-Bob-]

Screw everybody else. Bring back the Glock mag jokes

[@CxS_Nico]

Hell yeah, this looks dope. Would have love to seen Colt mags on this though.

[@Echo_Charlie]

or CZ Scorpion mags.

[@brianbevard7815]

I remember forgotten weapons did ashow on a gun that had the same system 70 years ago. Wish i remembered the model

[@brianbevard7815]

Fritz Mann 1922

[@tomalong99]

There have been a few, there is the Kimball .30 Carbine semi using a similar system with only a few examples made.

[@rickdeppat4456]

The H&K HK4 had this back in 1962 - but only for the .380acp barrel.

[@jackjohnson291]

Finally, not another direct blowback… but what ever came of the LWRC SMG45? Did they ever fix the accuracy issues???

[@HKGunPlay]

I heard they did my buddy has one. I love lwrc but that thing was expensive. I have the 16 556 and I love it.

[@jackjohnson291]

@@HKGunPlayI agree, they are spendy. I was a day away from picking one up when I heard about the issues, and I just haven’t heard much of anything since. It’s such an awesome design, and I hope to eventually get my hands on one (assuming it has been resolved).

[@habibifather7681]

Very interesting concept never heard of this before, but as long as the round doesn't keyhole or print a 6moa way group at 25 yd.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

It's been done before. The Kimball .30 Carbine pistol did this and it was infamous for being terrifying to shoot.

[@shooteveryday1841]

Making a Glock mag receiver that takes Glock pistol mags requires funky mechanisms to get the BHO to work- FM uses the same mechanism, Hoffman tactical uses a hex rod.

[@z0diak08]

Between this and the DD PCC, whoever gets a pistol model out 1st will be 1st in cart for me!

[@Stribogboi]

You're a fool if you would pay $1800 for a direct blowback.

[@Stribogboi]

Puts that DDPCC to shame.

[@toddparsons2980]

Cool! Thank god for no "does it take Glock mags" ridiculousness this yeah 👍

[@AlexandreBeraldi]

Oh great! A gun that grabs the brass in the chamber and makes it harder to extract... It has everything to be ultra reliable.

[@southeast78]

I searched high and low for the SMG-45 and I payed a pretty penny for it because it was hard to get at the time. Needless to say the firearm was a complete miss! I’ll wait a year before I’d buy another LWRC release

[@maxcole3930]

Dam I'm sorry to hear that! I've heard cmmg is good about warranty issues. But haven't had to deal with that myself. My Dissent MKG9mm is running 100% so far. It runs federal hst & Speer gold dot 124 & 147 HP's , tulla steel cases & any other standard brass cases ammo perfectly. I'm at 800 rounds after today. The Dissent has extractor moved into the upper. My buddies banshee 45 is also extremely reliable. Sounds like you got a lemon. Which can & will happen from any company. I would think cmmg would take yours & send you a replacement!

[@f3uibeghardt522]

That BCG is nitride? Not nickel boron? Also, I want to see LWRC make a pistol. Not an AR pistol, an actual handgun.

[@Steve-yo4ld]

You had me at Glock Mags!😂

[@steveninaz9576]

LRBHO looks a lot like Fox Trot Mikes, except for the ambi.

[@Paladin1873]

How does it perform with steel cased ammo? I'm asking for a friend.

[@DinoNucci]

Explodes

[@jackjohnson291]

Instant polar shift and tsunamis.

[@user-my6fn2ml7c]

This reminds me of a German pistol from a long time ago.

[@machinesandthings7121]

I keep mistaking that MI logo as Midwest industries also. Ha

[@0661mike]

What i would like to know is - will they sell just the barrel, and is it full auto rated?

[@isaacarzaga4216]

How about letting the SME explain the function?

[@joeybishop7604]

I wish it took Scorpion mags instead. Glock mags look ridiculous, and are at an awkward angle Scorpion magazines, look so much more aesthetically, pleasing, along with easier to remove and insert

[@natertater84]

Look up the psa arv-9

[@jackjohnson291]

Agreed, 100%. I like Glock mags. Who doesn’t? But I also don’t understand why people are so cheap when it comes to mags. I’m surprised people don’t demand for handguns to take p-mags, even if it doesn’t fit the form (just like Glock mags in a PCC)… 🤦‍♂️ Don’t get me wrong though, I get the utility and convenience of using the same mags and ammo as your handgun. But I also have to wonder how many people making that argument are carrying a Glock that accepts that same mag these days. My guess is far less than years before.

[@jackjohnson291]

@@natertater84Or the new Daniel Defense, if you feel like paying a whole lot more (it is nice though). The only problem with both is the same old straight blowback.

[@johnw4999]

The 10mm needs a roller-delayed system to shoot the highest performance loads. Will the ring-delayed work with 10mm??? What is the life expectancy of the extractor? Now, I love the Banshee Mk-10, but even with the heaviest buffer, per instruction manual, the operating system will allow cases to bulge, crack or split severely. I have a pile of such cases. That same ammunition runs well in my XTEN.

[@richardstone530]

Will it be able to shoot polymer cased ammo?

[@dodujkaj4641]

I'm going to assume shooting steel cased ammo out of this is out of the question

[@jamespugh]

Cool 9mm carbine

[@preacherbiggin]

The hk mp 5 clone ( i forget the manufacturer) released @ shot show looks to be a better product. Maybe im missing something?

[@Soravia]

Steel and aluminum cases tested?

[@anatineduo4289]

I love innovation (even when it's old made new) and simple solutions, and this is gorgeous looking, but did I miss the point? Yes, lower mass bolt, but why? Is this a particularly lightweight firearm for its other specs? Funny about the Glock mag thing too, as I tend to look for that, but that's because of the legal silliness in my country. For a new build, why not a dedicated mag? With love...

[@MB-lr5fp]

$2k for that??? I almost spit out my coffee. Can the brass be reloaded? If so, is the case life decreased?

[@vladimirmihnev9702]

No! Duh! Case life is up to one firing cycle.😂

[@DroppingBombs4ever]

Does it take 30-06 BAR Magazines?

[@doubletap1961]

Hell yes !!!

[@Sierra_Tango_5]

It should have taken 35-round Lancer magazines. Nice, but I'll pass on the GLOCK magazine format. Love the quality, of course!

[@checkmate058]

Case ruptures be upon yee. This isn't new technology. I remember Ian McCollum talking about this In some prototypes

[@vegeta420z6]

Does it take hipoint magazines?

[@ar15com]

Never change 🥰

[@Freedomishere-im6ug]

So it like a walther pdp chamber just ring move back further from much

[@DinoNucci]

The wasn't a real sentence

[@Freedomishere-im6ug]

@@DinoNucci go back watch video (delayed blowback)pcc Then check out how a walther pdp chamber is designed If you do not understand stand what my statement means you are shooter not a gunsmith

[@DinoNucci]

@@Freedomishere-im6ug you're confused ma'am... What I am explaining is your sentence construction is on par with that of a 4 year old

[@tacticalmattfoley]

Daniel Craig we have at home....

[@meanman6992]

So ambi controls that I don’t care about or want to pay for, and it ruins my brass for reloading? Creative solution to still going by direct blow back but as a reloader, concerned, expecting not to like.

[@lonniesmith1533]

It sounds like it would have issues when it got hot. Maybe not. I'm not sure I would gamble on it.

[@calebclark6739]

I would rather see it with scorpion mags

[@opencarry3860]

I like it, but for the money I will stick with my FX-9 carbine and pistol which have been super reliable.

[@Soravia]

How about 10mm?

[@petrkarv]

Looks awesome. You speaking alien again?

[@KD-lb9bg]

$2000 for this, and $1600-$1800 for the DD PCC, Lol. My chunky Ruger PCC range toy looks better and better every day.

[@1handor2]

WTF IS WITH PRICING THIS YEAR. I know about R&D and I know about product cost but this is absolutely ridiculous this year and you can't even do the Glock mag joke anymore

[@rawtoon2000]

Andrew just shut up and let them explain their product.

[@tylermurphy4020]

How is lwrc even still in business??

[@cyrusfreeman9972]

Wow, a needlessly heavy pcc with price tag higher anything tried and true. Yay. Also this system has been tried before and dripped before. Not saying it can't work, but I am saying there are reasons it's not more common.

[@sleigh4019]

2k lol ... For a gun psa makes for 459$ with out a chamber obstruction .. Huh.... I hate high end gun makers , ill be honest I use buy Sigs and Danie defense but after now running some Budget stuff I don't get it ..the saber I bought runs every bit as well as my bcm and saved 200$ and BCM is reasonable

[@carldouglasmiles5594]

You are doing his job for him

[@Crangaso]

🔫

[@DinoNucci]

This "ring delay" sounds like they're trolling us

[@T-riumph995i]

Soooo does it take glock mags lol

[@vincenteddings4108]

As great as their quality is, this lost me at LWRC. Great quality but way more than I want to pay for those results.

[@bionicwolf3342]

Seems expensive

[@bluedestiny]

This guy trolling him

[@markzuckerberg3128]

$2000 dollars...yeah but no thanks. I swear almost everything in the gun industry is so overpriced. These guys are laughing their way to the bank.

[@snarkyeconomist2141]

Everything from LWRC is over priced.

[@HKGunPlay]

Lwrc makes quality shit for sure. They are expensive though. I have a 556 rifle and it’s sweet. Better than the DD I had.

[@Stribogboi]

Too bad Gucci Bois want that internet clout and will continue to pay for them. DD has been the worst this year. $1800 proprietary direct blowback AR9.... You would have to be a firearm idiot to buy that thing.

[@jackjohnson291]

@@Stribogboi I think we can agree that they’re overpriced. However, if they were the exact same price as “x”, tell me you would still choose “x”. You wouldn’t.

[@Stribogboi]

@@jackjohnson291 there are several PCCs I'd buy before both of these.

[@JW-fq1pp]

$2k for a 9mm PCC? No thanks...

[@richardharris5819]

I kind of like it, but ya nope I'm good...

[@reedjack6564]

10 mm or nothing

[@gadsdenjim8785]

American companies need to stop doing Glock lower magazine catches like that. It can be done in the standard way only using a different catch, standard spring & standard release button the way the French “Lebel VCD 9“ does. By now no one should be using those old magazines with the one right side notch anyway. Which was the reason for that compromise seesaw mag catch in the first place that’s prone to accidental mag drops. If done like the VCD 9 the long guns steel catch engages the left side notch on the magazines and your pistols use the right side notch.

[@JohnAIDoe]

I'm sick of anything AR. Need to see something new other than another variant.

[@brian.louis107]

Are you auditioning for an LWRC rep position? Why don't you let the rep explain how it works. You're embarrassing yourself.