Delightful or a Dud? - Hornby’s New Black 5 - A Review of 45157 ‘The Glasgow Highlander’

[@GWRFan281]

Personally, I would be very happy if Hornby brought back the Black 5 in the Railroad range. Not all of us are bothered about lamps, smoke or tender to loco gaps, we just want a decent representation of a Black 5 that runs well at a fair price. Not too much to ask for surely.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

That’s a great idea, it would mean they’re still getting value out of the old tooling.

[@stephendavies6949]

You can pick up good second-hand, loco drive, "Super Detail" versions for around £65, with the later DCC Ready iterations for around £100. SamsTrains did a video on the subject recently.

[@GWRFan281]

@@stephendavies6949 I'll have a look. The one I should have bought was R3494 in the Railroad range. It was no frills but looked pretty good I thought.

[@jvbndofvbnebe]

One thing I've been thinking about is to get a railroad replacement chassis and fit old tender drives bodies to it. Barrie Davis did that in one of his older videos and it's a nice way to convert them to loco drive

[@stickman18]

I agree about the lamps they spoil what looks a good loco, they are way over scale and very white and it does not give you the flexibility of running on different lamp codes. I think I will stick to my Railroad version, but thank you for sharing.

[@muir8009]

Excellent review/ looksey. You're being very pragmatic in a good way. Two comments I'd like to make: regarding the tender gap: have a look at the profile of the old 1950's märklin DA800/3005 with its surprisingly close tender gap. The DA breezes around 286mm radius or roughly 11 inch radius curves. Yes theres no tender wiring but visually it shows how doable close tender coupling is. Secondly train indicator lamps. In the days of gauge I and gauge II Bing for Bassett-Lowke, Carette and Märklin et al, smokebox indicator lamps were part of the replication of a real railway in all manners. Signals were worked by levers and rods from tiny signal levers in the signal box. Mail bags were delivered by passing coaches. Slip coaches slipped, and trains displayed the correct headcode as they thundered from a 3 platform Kings Cross to a 3 road Edinburgh, passing an optimistically titled York passing loop on the way. Things like the headcode lamps suited the railway modeller then, less so today methinks

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks - yes I think you’re spot on there. That makes it all the more frustrating when you know a higher standard is absolutely achievable, and has been for a long time!

[@stephendavies6949]

The Black 5 has been one of Hornby's flagship models for decades, and initial reports of problems with the LMS version must have been of great concern for the company. I do hope your experience of this iteration is more typical of the model, which looks magnificent. I agree completely with you regarding the lamps. Thanks for sharing your experience of it on your magnificent layout. PS: was on a NNR fish and chip special last weekend behind their 7F: what a beast of a loco. The food wasn't bad either!

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks - I hope so. It does seem the BR have fewer problems than the LMS versions. Wow that sounds brilliant!

[@jamestailyour7348]

Love your dog’s fascination with the engine.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

He loved it more than me!

[@Harrison2253]

Amazing detail !

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks!

[@glennwoods2462]

Enjoyed your video, thanks... Really did improve the front, taking off those lights... The Stanier Black 5 is a fine looking locomotive.....

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Glenn 👍🏻

[@daviemaclean61]

I'm not one for buying brand new locos, but this one looks so much better than the old Black 5 I have

[@MouldyRaspberry]

It absolutely does!

[@gregmacdonald927]

Excellent and very credible review. Thanks for this!🎉

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Greg, pleased you found it useful!

[@ngaugeonashelf4417]

I've just invested in the Black 5 and the newer 5MT in N gauge. Really pleased with them both. So I pushed the boat out and bought a second hand B1 in LNER Apple Green. It's been an expensive 4 weeks! It's a good looking loco in the larger scale.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Ha I can imagine, that will keep you entertained for a while!

[@Yet1moreUtuber]

Fine looking engine👍

[@MouldyRaspberry]

It sure is 👍🏻

[@thhseeking]

That's some layout :P

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks!

[@BuzbyWuzby]

Black 5s (BR) and class 8s diesel shunters (BR green) my favourite locomotives

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Good choices!!!

[@fredtedstedman]

Always thought the Black 5 was such a handsome engine !

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Me too!

[@danielparrott8339]

It looks a stunning model and it is good to see that this one didn't have any deal-breaking faults. For the price though, I would have expected the front system to be usable (e.g. not having lights glued in etc). I have a couple of newer gen super detail Hornby locos, but I can't be trusted not to break the valve gear within 30secs. I tend to be buy the better looking tender drive models (e.g. the Schools class) as I can't break them. My black 5 (recently purchased) is one of the original 1973 Hornby models, with the hard wired Fleischmann style Ringfield. Not a patch on this visually, but once you take off the front coupling and blacken down the silver wheel rims, it looks surprisingly good.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Daniel - yep you’re right if you want a tough robust model, the old ones are the way to go!

[@paulcherrytrains3339]

Great review of a super model. I would check the crank pins are not loose. I have had them come out and it's not pretty. The lamps look fiddly to change.. I'm tempted to get one myself. Thanks for showing. Regards Paul.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Paul. Yes they were a bit fiddly. I’ll give mine a check thanks 👍🏻

[@ralphdavey7303]

Thanks for the video. Enjoyed it. The extended floor plate option made from plastic card between the cab and tender should reduce the gap appearance and hide the connecting coupling a bit. May be easier than a rewiring project with close coupler. Loco looks nice.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Ralph. Yes I agree, I think I’ll give that a go first and see how I get on with it 👍🏻

[@RobA500]

I'm guessing the tender gap is down to still catering for 2nd radius curves as a lot of people still use them due to space constraints but still want to have the large express locomotives that can often look quite ungainly going around them.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I suppose so, but my Accurascale manor can get round second radius curves with an absolutely tiny loco tender gap because of the kinematic coupling they use. I think you could halve the distance on the 5MT and it would still breeze round 2nd radius

[@Trainatgcr]

The new black 5 is super detailed and is amazing you should make some more videos on this

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I will 😬

[@rikk19vfr]

Thanks for a great video, now tempted by this instead of the LMS...plse can you advise which modelu lamps are correct for this? Looks so much better, good job!

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks! I’d go for their LMS lamps for these: www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2066/

[@EdVanMeyer]

Looks nice

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@barra8771]

A very nice loco Lewis, nice to see your ECS again 🤗

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thank you 👍🏻 He loves to barge his way into videos!

[@kellyashfordtrains2642]

What's not to love about the Jack of all Trades?

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Agreed!

[@danprice7973]

Thanks for uploading, I was very interested to see how the BR version would run as I've had 3 LMS versions and all have been duds. I liked the look of the model so much I was reluctant to give up but the BR livery (yet to arrive) is my final attempt. I believe you mentioned your layout was analogue DC which gives me hope as mine is too. Cheers, Dan

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Dan. Yeah it seems the BR versions don’t have the same issues as the LMS ones, maybe it was just a bad batch.

[@danprice7973]

@@MouldyRaspberry I talked to my local model shop and he said the LMS ones were made in a different factory to the BR ones. My BR one came at 16:00 today and is still running round my layout now without any issues whatsoever so it’s been great 👍🏻

[@FlyingScotsDan]

Great video! Ive got the three versions released so far and have to say - im impressed. Had some running issues with the first LMS one due to the tender connection but that was a simple fix and this one is phenomenal. Fantastic runner and the detail on it is top notch. Personally im not sold on the lamps either but thats more me then anything Hornby have done, its a novel idea just defeated by the scale of the model. Ive taken the lamps off and replaced them with brass ones on the LMS one and its improved it no end, will be adding some ModelU lamps after its been weathered. Got the Caprotti version too and that also looks phenomenal.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks mate 👍🏻 Yeah I completely agree. If only there was a close couple setting for the tender and it would be perfect once you’ve made those tweaks! Still think it’s a great loco though, glad you’re happy with yours.

[@stephendavies6949]

Black Fives are like class 37s: you can't have too many of them!

[@jamesgilbart2672]

Interesting video - the layout looks really good too. I like the idea of moveable working headlights on a model locomotive to suit any head code you might want but in reviews, Hornby's system appears very crude and needs a redesign. Meanwhile, I'm waiting for a BR version with sound/smoke/steam.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks James, I completely agree. Hopefully it won’t be too long!

[@tonyslight826]

Hi Lewis i am in the process of buying this new black five most of my stock is with the big 4 and a few are BR. but i was settled on getting the L.M.S. version but on seeing your BR version i think i might change my mind . I must say i admire your bravery with your suggestions regarding the loco to tender gap but i do see where you are coming from it is quite a big gap,and yes the lamps are a bit big. when all said and done its a lovely model. thank you for another great video Lewis.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Tony - I’d definitely recommend the BR version. You’re right, those are smaller things at the end of the day, it’s still a good model.

[@tonyslight826]

@@MouldyRaspberry Hi Lewis i picked up my BR black 5 Sunday all good.

[@paulmarmion358]

Love the dog 👍

[@MouldyRaspberry]

He loves nosing his way into videos!

[@phil36310]

Hi Lewis, A very positive review. Sadly not up to expectations of being the "ultimate" Black 5. As a leading UK manufacturer Hornby could learn a lot from the competition not to mention German designed locomotives. Quite disappointing. Anyway success with your Glasgow Highlander ! Cheers, Filip

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Filip. It’s even more frustrating because they came so close. Just those couple of tweaks and they would have nailed it!

[@stretchedits]

Hi Lewis, that was a really nice look at this new loco.................I have the old Black Five, I do like your new one though, although not sure I can justify buying this new one.............Who knows though. I agree with you, those new lights are a bit gimmicky and that gap between tender and loco is way too big.............A shame that. Having said that, yours does look lovely. It will be interesting to see what you do next with it. All the very best Dave.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks very much Dave. Yes a couple of niggles, one of which can be fixed, but overall a great model 😀

[@LMS2968]

Two big problems for me. First, the engine - tender gap. As an ex-(SVR)fireman that's a hell of a distance to swing the shovel! But seriously, however much and however good the detail that just screams out 'Wrong!' The second is the tail lamp on the tender. Apparently. it isn't (easily?) removable but the tail lamp should be on the last vehicle and only the last vehicle (the tender only if running light engine). As soon as the tender is coupled to a train the tail lamp is wrong. In real life that train would be stopped at the next signal box and the driver told to remove it. Shame that such an excellent model is spoiled like this.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Yes you’d have to cut the rear lamp off and fit a replacement lamp iron similar to the front. Someone has worked out how to reduce the tender gap now - I’m going to have a go this weekend.

[@LMS2968]

@@MouldyRaspberry Good luck and do tell!

[@gs425]

I wish more models would be made with the thing in gear! Yes it's not always going to be correct, but 90% of the time a fair amount of forward gear would suffice nicely

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Yes that’s a fair point!

[@ChobertonJunction]

Interesting, I got the LMS version and it looks amazing but runs a little unsmoothly like yours at low speeds even after I ran it in half hour each way. The lamps however are black and look fine on mine. I cannot really test the new coupling system fully as I only have an end to end layout that is 8 seconds from start to finish. So far though no problems with the coupling and curves I do have. Like you I still think it is a great looking loco.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Yes I agree the black lamps look much better. That’s great you got a good ‘un as well!

[@ModelRailwaysUnlimited]

Excellent video thanks. Just imagine how much of a cost saving there would have been if they had not fitted the gimmicks! Looking forward to seeing how you progress with her

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks 👍🏻 That’s true. I’d rather ditch them and save a few £££!

[@AussiePom]

Also Lewis to me Hornby should have made so all the lamp irons were electrically "live" and using their own Hornby lamps different codes could be shown to indicate the different types of train being hauled. As shown on your model that's the code for a class 8 or fully unfitted goods train. Sure the locos now cost a Kings ransom so why not go the "whole hog" and have it so that different codes with lighted lamps could be displayed. That then would really be a HUGE leap in model realism. On Bullied pacifics the lights are already fixed in place with them only being used at night time and discs being used in the day but to denote a train's destination not the type of train. So having a Bullied model where all the lights could be lit up to show different train's destination would be another string to Hornby's bow.

[@GamingFnaticYT]

Looks like a nice loco and a very nice layout aswell, can I ask how big is your misselthwaite layout as I’ve been looking at doing something similar in the space I’ve got, so I can run some trains as it’s been a while since I’ve run any as I’ve just recently inherited my grandads collection so I’m not going to have a full circuit layout anytime soon.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Hi Callum - sorry I’ve been meaning to reply to your email! The scenic area is 10 foot long, and the storage yard is another 8 foot long. It’s in an L shape.

[@GamingFnaticYT]

@@MouldyRaspberry no problem, thanks for getting back to me, I don’t have much space sadly but I’m hoping I can maybe fit something similar into an 8ft space as I model 00 gauge and I don’t mind having shorter trains, I’m mainly doing it so I can test my locos on a scenic section of track, as it’s been a while since majority of my stock has ran, as it is a 40 yr old collection or so and I’m expanding on it even further. A lot of the models are new and haven’t been ran in yet, I measured a loco of mine with 3 MK1 coaches and 1 slightly longer one which measured about just over 4ft so I think I could probably get 5 coaches maybe in with some space to move the loco around, i do have some freight wagons also, tbh I have like 5/6 maybe even 7 full boxes of wagons so alot to choose from, this would just be something I do in the meantime around working to get the main layout started, as alot of moving about needs to be done first. Thanks again. Callum

[@raymondleggs5508]

I've seen Close coupling tenders on old German starter set locos. 😞

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Me too! Although I have got it a bit closer now 👍🏻

[@johnphillipson1107]

Enjoyed the comments and practical removal of the over=size lamps. No idea why they are so poorly designed when they are suppose to be removal and put in other positions. The tender to cab gap is also a bad design and not so easy to change.

[@SheltonDCruz]

Beautiful layout may I ask where you got the point rodding ?

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks! I’ll leave a link: peco-uk.com/products/oo-ho-point-rodding?variant=7435751063586

[@SheltonDCruz]

@@MouldyRaspberry Thanks!

[@nuntius1933]

For working loco lamps have you tried DCC Concepts?

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I haven’t, but they do look good. Would you recommend them?

[@nuntius1933]

@@MouldyRaspberry - in all honesty, I can't claim to have tried their lamps but have purchased and can recommend some of their other products.

[@anfieldroadlayoutintheloft5204]

good vid on channel nice vid as always keep up the good vid on nice loco runs well thanks lee

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks Lee 👍🏻

[@birtle123]

Spot on Lewis. A very nice model but tarnished somewhat by the over-sized, gimmicky lamps and over-scale gap between the tender and cab.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks - yes completely agree 👍🏻

[@Northernlinejunction]

proud owner of your old Black 5 haha

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Fair enough, they’re still really decent. They’ll probably be even better value now as people sell the old ones off

[@Northernlinejunction]

@@MouldyRaspberry can’t fault it, you should allow people to pay you for weathering services as you do a fantastic job!

[@colwichjunction3366]

Lovely looking loco, Hornby seem to have captured the look of the real thing. But and there’s always a but, especially with this manufacturer. The lamps are awful and a poor gimmick, what a shame. Thankfully you have shown that the model can be put right & be made to look near enough perfect, lovely work on your part. I’m definitely looking forward to seeing the loco when you’ve weathered it up fully & then running it on the layout👍👍👍 Thanks for sharing. John b😎

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks very much John. Yes that does often seem to be the case, which is definitely frustrating!

[@Jeff-fc7gw]

Lamps are a little bit out of scale but not as much as the Spaniel

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Very true!

[@LanchomeJunction]

Have the Sound/ Steam Generator version on pre-order

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Good choice!

[@kellypaws]

The lamps are absolutely horrific. How they thought that was acceptable must remain a puzzle and points to a serious lack of competent final product approval in Hornby. Also the idea of a named Black 5, to me is anathema. A loco famous for not being individually famous, a day to day unpretentious workhorse, the most workmanlike of motive power; and they choose to model one of the few named examples. It's offensive. It's not what the Black 5 represented.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I guess so, I’m not too bothered myself but would like a non-named one with a different boiler configuration as well 👍🏻

[@stevenperry7493]

What a fantastic loco ,remember the 5s when I use to live next to the St Pancres line at Mill Hill .. It does run well & look the part .so next time we see it will be working ,I can’t wait for that .😊

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thank you Steve!

[@AussiePom]

Very nice but with the loco and tender connection why didn't they do like a coaches so it is close coupled on the straight and then it pushes out so that it's got enough room not to foul the engine or tender on curves. The lamps look like on step too far by molding the lamp iron in with the lamp. Loads of plastic detail ready to come adrift in the years to come.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I agree Roy, I’ve got no idea why they didn’t nail that. Surely someone must have raised that during the design process!

[@AussiePom]

@@MouldyRaspberry Obviously not.

[@Ballinalower]

Does your delightful assistant have any comments on how it smells?

[@MouldyRaspberry]

He confirmed it passed the smell test

[@andrewsmith6563]

That's what 45407's disguise was used to masquerade as a long lost engine.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Yes I remember that!

[@andrewsmith6563]

@@MouldyRaspberry And if you get more headboards, headlamps, white disks, and headcodes, you may be able to recreate The Cambrian Coast Express, Torbay Express, The North Wales Coast Express, The Red Dragon, The Cathedrals Express, The Scaborough Spa Express, The Pines Express, and The Cumbrian Coast Express, Lewis.

[@OlivierGabin]

Nice model you have. I wanted to buy the LMS version, but the issues with the manufacturing quality had deterred me to do so. Seems your own does not have such problems. By the way, I had also deferred buying their new 9F due to motor issues, and I finally buy one, got a model with a good motor and... bought a second one with a good motor too ! Seems when Hornby does a new model, their first items out of the assembly line are shoddily manufactured, then things gets better. Agree with you on the tender connection, the Standard 2MT is better on this point. Also agree with the pointless headlamps, something we can get rid of, and replace by the aftermarket model lamps you had shown us one day.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

That’s a good point Olivier - it does seem to be the first patch that have faults! Glad your 9Fs are working wel 👍🏻

[@johnbrown9092]

Quite a bit to do there Mr Mouldy. I think it will look good after all the alterations but its a shame you have to do them in the first place. 😊

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Yes I completely agree John. If any, the alterations should be adding bits, not removing them 🤣

[@ЛЬВИНИ]

Nice video, likes from me.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@petermcgarrymusicandflying]

Nice engine

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@danielbrooks3452]

Can i ask where did you get your stone walling from please.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Osbourne’s Models, it’s made of foam 👍🏻

[@danielbrooks3452]

Brilliant thank you very much

[@greatbritishrailwayvideos4529]

the one on the tender looks crap but sadly you can't remove it

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I do think it looks better than the ones on the front though. I’ll probably cut it off and fit a lamp iron at some point.

[@andrewbellamy722]

Hornby have missed an opportunity to make a good Black Five, the gap is hideous and incorrect brake shoes again no lining on the cylinder cover the lamps are far to large bogie wheels are the wrong profile. This is very disappointing as there is so much reference material available to get these very basic issues sorted.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Yes definitely a few things missed - from looking at reference photos quite a few of the Scottish based 5s didn’t have lined cylinders at one stage though so I think that is accurate

[@andrewbellamy722]

My main issues with the new Hornby Black Five are the fact that when I have spoken to people from Hornby at various shows they have been saying that everything has been carefully researched to make sure it raises the bar in accuracy and development. So why is there daylight between the boiler and running plate, poor bogie wheel profile, incorrect brake shoes, it has a hopper ash pan control which should not be there on 45157. The gap between engine and tender has been covered by many people but we have in the past had models with adjustable drawbars so the modeller can adjust the gap. Compare the standard of the Accurascale Manor to the Hornby Black Five, Hornby are no where near raising the bar at all with this model.

[@stevenkarnisky411]

You are a very talented modeler, and a fine dog owner, but you lack something as a shepherd! One of your flock lies deceased and stiff legged in the field. I am sure the stench is what drew the attention of your canine friend: not the aroma of a new steam loco! The new locomotive is nicely detailed and seems to run smoothly. I do agree with your assessment of the lamps and the distance from loco to tender, but those seem to be minor quibbles, overall. Good to see you post again, Lewis!

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Ha thanks Steve - a couple of the sheep on the layout are all deformed where my dog chewed them when I was looking 🤣 I agree, if someone figures out a way to close the tender gap then that’s both problems solved.

[@andrewrice6596]

It looks much better without those hideous white lamps on the front.

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Agreed!

[@pim1234]

No sound, that's a pity ...

[@MouldyRaspberry]

No I’m not into sound, my layout is analogue 👍🏻

[@Guitar6ty]

A squirt of WD40 onto the armature ie the copper windings on the motor improves slow running. The Black 5 is a stunning loco

[@MouldyRaspberry]

Agreed!

[@ModelRailwaysUnlimited]

what???? joking surely?

[@tankmicr00man]

Do you mean the WD40 contact cleaner?

[@ModelRailwaysUnlimited]

Don't spray anything on the coils, the wax will cause jamming and the cleaner could attack the insulation.

[@paulkandi]

Hornby need to forget gimmicks and concentrate on quality, value for money and customer care, they are going down, if this is not addressed...are you on DC or DCC..? Smoother on DCC,,, looks a lot better after removing those dreadful toy like lamps..!!

[@MouldyRaspberry]

I’m on DC, so yes you’re right probably would be even smoother on DCC!