Delves Are Currently In A Strange Place In World of Warcraft...

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[@tektight]

I think delves are here to stay but will evolve. We wouldn't even HAVE delves if people weren't such toxic pieces of shite in randoms.

[@gentlepengu]

my friend who i managed to talk into playing tried pugging, got votekicked for following the tank to one of the spies in city of threads and died to the aoe damage because the healer was only spamming the tank. instant walkout, uninstall, never looked back, unsubbed, went to other games.

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

But why are you doing delves for the gear or for the challenge? If it’s for gear, why do you need the gear if you’re already doing the content designed for you?

[@Gungrave123]

@@TheArmouryOfficial gee i wonder why people playing a game who's entire character progression loop is tied to gear, want to progress their characters. truly the mystery of our time!

[@nickymo3842]

Delves are for people like me who: wanna play wow, don’t have time to raid or m+, and like to play solo/with the wife. It’s not 2008 anymore I don’t have time to get together with 25-40 gamers and get screeched at because I am doing 2% less damage than what is optimal.

[@groupnate]

THIS. IS. FACTS.

[@robman219]

yep, same. i used to be a fairly a hardcore raider, raid leader, 7 days a week, 4-8 hours a day kinda guy. but now i've not played for 5 years (kids huh) and only picked back up about 2 weeks before TWW prepatch, only get maybe 2-4 hours, 3-4 days a week to play, which is just enough to complete my delves for the week and generally faff about refamiliarising myself with all aspects of the game. I'm largely playing solo as most of my guildies have either stopped playing, moved onto active guilds, or changed server entirely, although tbh there's not even a 10 man raid worth of people i know logging on anymore and my schedule certainly does not align, as i usually only get on after 10pm after i've put my kid to bed. delves are perfect for me, i'm still gearing (ilvl 590ish atm) but clearing T8 delves without much of an issue now (bran is lvl 22ish). i've not touched LFR except for one run that started on the last boss of the wing and haven't touched any heroic or M+ dungeons (tbh i do not care for the time related stress of M+ anyways, or the toxicity of random group content). will probably start running LFR a little more consistently once i've earned and burned my bountiful keys for the week and i'm a bit better geared. although probably wont need any gear, i do like a bossfight, even if it is faceroll LFR. (again, cant commit to a raid schedule, family priorities and whatnot) once i'm geared, i might try and find a guild with a raid schedule i can work with, but yea, time restrictions in RL means unlikely to actually find one that'll raid a couple hours late night (10pm -midnight) - give it another couple of years and i might have more time to entertain a raiding schedule that actually aligns with other people - but for now, happy to challenge myself in delves. they are good content IMO, i'm probably gonna have a go at the delve season 1 achievement, even though i have historically been one of those who would normally completely ignore achievements and get them by accident.

[@CreamzRS]

Delves are for people who don't want to get grilled and kicked from mythic+ and don't have time to raid for a chance of gear, rather do a couple delves after work get some champion gear and hero from vault and call it a good day.

[@degenerate.z]

that is literally me, between work and my wife, i BARELY have time to enjoy the game i love so much and delves provide a way for me to stay relevant

[@christmasham4312]

For Charlie who has 3 kids and works a 9-5 😮

[@al.mandez6721]

Personally Iike it because I don't have take forever forming a group or sit in a que.

[@shang0h]

Maybe hot take There's been 0 prestige from gear for a number of expansions. There's so many sellers that even doing moderately high (~20) keys has none. Delve kind of solo content is good for players that just don't have a schedule that supports raiding or finding/running with a consistent m+ group (and it should not be nerfed), but I feel like the actual breakthrough would be expanding on this npc party system to its logical end: being able to simulate a 'par' m+ group and running keys. This could have a completely separate scoring system distinct from regular keys, and it needs to require the type of coordination, cc/interrupt rotating and personal responsibility involved (this would ideally involve the npcs making mistakes too) in running keys and offer the type of equipment rewards comparable to keys. It's the only way to hold the interest of CE/2800+ players who just can't play the way we used to.

[@Dogmelter42]

​@@christmasham4312 hail to Chuck, tank of the Kid Aggro and taker of the trash.

[@synns6898]

As a solo player I’m loving delves, delves should be solo content with some challenges and they have it spot on in regards to the gear. Gear shouldn’t just be gated to the No life elite who can spend hours gaming, I’m 47 and been playing since the beginning, ive done high end raiding but I do not have the time anymore and delves are the first thing bliz have done in years that gives a challenge to soloing and gives decent rewards also.

[@Nagem00]

Agreed! I'm in the same place on this.

[@Thebrownsound89]

But doesn't that devalue doing heroic raid and mythic plus too much? There is really no reason gear wise to do heroic and that doesnt feel right

[@silver_crone]

@@Thebrownsound89How does it devalue it? Heroic raid, mythic plus people are - generally - not the same people who only have a few hours to game a week and aren’t likely to even play heroic or mythic raids? It’s not like you’re running in the same circles, comparing gear at the end of the night? There are achievements for completing raids and whatnot that completing delves doesn’t give, so I’m not sure I see how someone else having fun in the game is devaluing a serious raider.

[@Vikingskog]

@@Thebrownsound89 i dont think so, as long as there are unique rewards you can only get in raids, it should still feel rewarding. Item level isnt the only way you can incentivize people to do raids, things like mounts, titles, unique transmogs works too. Also Blizzard should focus on making the raiding experience more enjoyable so more people would do it for actual fun. Removing addons so that the fights can be made a bit simpler would be a good first step. Blizzard focusing on catering to the tiny amount of people who do mythic and heroic raiding while giving no challenging content or decent gear-oppurtinities to the majority has been one of the main problems with WoW the last 10-15 years.

[@TheGoatBeats]

Preach old man (im old too).

[@crimsondragon1794]

They are definitely for me. Having a blast working my way through too tier 8

[@d4mephisto]

to*

[@stelthy3450]

Really? Working your way? You can roll a tank and literally hit level 80, buy 558 AH gear and go solo a tier 8.

[@forrrrestjohncave]

@@stelthy3450 I solo them all the time as a warlock with my tanking demon. Not sure how it is for other DPS classes, especially something like a DH or Mage.

[@albertosaenz]

​@@stelthy3450 And the fun? I enjoy the progress of mastering my class, build, items etc to get better and work my way up. Why would I want to go in full tank and one shot the finish line.

[@stelthy3450]

@albertosaenz didn't say I wanted to one shot the finish line. If you're still mastering your class there's an issue. I been playing this game for 20 years. I've played on mythic raid teams. I've done it all. I dont want to be hardcore but just to run dungeons for basically 24 hours over 3 days and get 1 piece is terrible for the urge to keep grinding. Who plays to waste their time getting nothing in return? There's no catch up mechanic for Alts. You literally have to grind. Buying 3 pieces from rep at 2600 crystals a piece is also a crap ton of grinding just to run a +2 to replace them.

[@DarkDiamondInc]

Delves are awesome, some of the best content in the game.

[@cremeofclubs]

Love the rewards from delves. I dont raid, have no interest in m+ but it feels so nice to be able to get some nice gear even though I only use it to farm old content for transmog and mounts.

[@danieldriggers3513]

So what you are saying is i should go raid to make everyone else feel better

[@hououinkyouma1488]

I think delves are great personally. WAY more enjoyable than M+

[@alms07]

Same. I hate m+. Delves are enjoyable

[@The86Ripper]

That would imply M+ was ever enjoyable to begin with.

[@hououinkyouma1488]

@@The86Ripper I think M+ peaked in Shadowlands S4. Very rewarding, not overblown with mechanics. But of coarse, it was "too rewarding" comparatively to raiding, so instead of making raiding more rewarding they make M+ the most painful experience it can possibly be

[@alms07]

@@The86Ripper m+ is the worst feature added to the game to me.

[@al.mandez6721]

I would like mythics of there wasn't a timer

[@The86Ripper]

The comparison should never be what tortures you *more* in order to give you good gear, but which activity is actually *enjoyable* and yes, the ability to solo as well as the overall time commitment will always play a huge role in that.

[@Zaurox8]

I love Delves they are the only reason why I came back to WoW. I have no desire to return to Mythic+ or raiding. I’ve been clearing 8s on my Outlaw rogue, and it’s been a blast. My focus endgame is Delves and Professions.

[@DeusGrimm]

Jesus. I usually agree with most of your points but you guys really sound out of touch. Who cares if they get the gear they do in delves? They don’t deserve it? What does that matter when people can swipe and get carried mythic gear? I don’t see the issue. For people really trying they can just push mythic.

[@FrozzenK]

If I had to guess, I would say the reason you think they are out of touch is probably because they grew up before participation medals were a thing. Now, every kid gets a medal for breathing. It shapes you differently as a person.

[@MoranaPetrusic]

​@@FrozzenK or you know, what he actually said and you didn't comment on which is the fact that you can buy mythic so by default it's an irrelevant competition. But go off grandaddy 🥰

[@DeusGrimm]

@@FrozzenK That’s a stretch. I’m in my mid 30’s and also played the game from day 1. It has nothing to do with that at all. I’d also add that the demographic for wow is people my age and older. Kids and young people don’t even like wow for the most part. Wow is a fundamentally pay to win game ever since the wow token. So if people enjoy doing delves and getting decent gear, let them. There is still full mythic track for people who really want to play high end.

[@Buntijr]

This is a problem because I have to choose between gearing through delves (which I dread, but it’s efficient) vs doing the content I want (mythic+ and raiding). I can either make my character stronger or do content I want (which requires good gear). Delves are just too efficient and too variable between classes. M+ is definitely harder but less rewarding. I want solo and more casual players to have fun content that lets them progress; I’m genuinely happy for them and think delves are generally a good addition to the game. But I do think harder content should have better (or faster acquired) rewards as a fundamental gameplay loop and design philosophy.

[@FrozzenK]

@@DeusGrimm "fundamentally pay to win" Yeah, okay. I see where you fall in the skill bracket if you hold this opinion. You may not have grown up with participation medals yourself, but you're certainly the *sort* of person who enforced them on kids then. Just be glad with your delve gear you get for breathing, it's not a big deal. And when people who are actually earning their medals make fun of you, or make fun of whoever paid for carries with their 0% log or whatever, just accept it. Don't throw tantrums.

[@PerpetualSmile]

Blizz posted a poll on X, and 30% of people said delves are their focus this session. I find that surprising

[@Gigatoast]

How so? It was the highest of the 4 options. As many thought it would be.

[@GGdayze]

Delves are fun and you can go at your own pace. Neckbeard dads like me who have to go afk every 10 min for a clucking wife or crying kids love em

[@kellynine7438]

Delves are great, and my biggest worry is that they'll ruin them the same way they ruined Torghast. I enjoyed Torghast when Shadowlands launched, but every patch somehow managed to make it worse. If they turn Delves into timed speedruns, I'm probably tapping out for the rest of the expansion.

[@Jaddort]

@@kellynine7438 they won’t be timed. They aren’t trying to make M+- over there. And they aren’t required so they won’t be like Torghast. Just a fun alternative with less pressure and still some test of skill. They’re great!

[@joelhodoborgas]

Honestly as someone raiding and spamming m+, i love delves specially cause it enables gearing for casuals and new players.

[@MugenSaint]

I see people ALL the time in delves /1 complaining about delve difficulty and not being able to complete a tier 8. We're looking at delves through the context of years of practice. I cleared a tier 11 deathless the first attempt. The challenge is real, but we've surpassed the difficulty of positioning and interrupts and knowing our whole toolkit, we passed it years ago. The gear rewards are completely fair imo. The hardest part of raids is getting a whole group of people to pay attention to mechanics at the same time; individually, the mechanics are not much harder than delves, raids just rely on someone else also knowing mechanics, too.

[@Will-Yam41]

🤲🏻

[@nauscakes1868]

One of my biggest pet peeves about WoW is how much of it is built on the expectation that the people playing the game have years of experience under their belt. I hadn't played since Cata, so I had from Vanilla-Cata in terms of experience, but there was just so much new stuff that's not intuitive at all and it's just assumed everyone knows things like Valorstones and "the vault." I remember when I would look up guides there used to be basically a single way to build your character. Now there's "Single target," "Multi target," "Mythic+" And just so much. I remember back in Cata if you wanted to raid. You basically did two things. Get max level, and then run heroics until you met some min item level. Now it's like a complex grocery list, lol. I like delves because they're go at your own pace, and I like that I can test out different builds in them without interacting with other people. -- Anyways, I've enjoyed my time in the game so far, but as a returning player who hasn't played for many years. Goddamn has the game changed. People like me do not integrate easily back into the current meta community. It feels like being in the military having to figure out how civilian life works.

[@MugenSaint]

@@nauscakes1868 you are exactly the kind of person that delves benefit the most. I've played every xpac, so I'm used to the direction things have gone, and I'm also a target audience for delves. Because I just do a higher tier than you do. And I don't like interacting with toxic m+ or pug raids. It's great, honestly. Anyone complaining that the rewards are too good is also the same person who logs in just to shit talk to randoms. They can't do that anymore because we'll just get our gear elsewhere.

[@olddogcraftilyspookilycrim8538]

I love them .. not everyone wants to slam mythic + and raid .😅

[@foncon9642]

They are for people who solid WoW gameplay that is not dungeons or raids. More things like delves please.

[@demohidu5946]

Delves are exactly what the game needed, a large group of people play video games for fun and at their own pace, this allows things to be left up purely to choice. This takes power away from toxic gatekeepers of all manner. Plus... the entire mentality of making players do certain content or dealing with all the toxic shit just to play the game wasn't doing the game any good anyways.

[@DaWoWzer]

Delves should just be free heroic track gear for vault, they're very clearly meant for casuals that was clear by them NOT rewarding mythic track gear, so screw it just let it be a safe back up for casuals who would never even get mythic track in the first place. so long as M+, which is 10000x easier than Mythic raiding, gives you equal gear to raiding that argument is moot. who cares how easy delves are and what gear they give when the hardest content in the game isn't even rewarding the best gear.

[@struthgaming3425]

Agreed

[@KidGamer20]

if u want the best gear u have to venture out of delves. it gives a chance for the "casual" player to be over geared when they maybe enter an M+ or raid.

[@loatwec]

Could not finish watching the video, you guys just sounded pompous and like you were talking down to all other Wow players who are not in the top 10%. "If you don't like web bolt, use CC" is basically the same as saying get good. You are not wrong, but the disgust in your voices was too much for me.

[@AlexanderXtcSlayin]

I think delves should be limited to 3 players max + brann. When you go in with a whole dungeon group tank/healer and all, it kinda takes away from the more intimate delve experience.

[@edward_hog]

they're not for you.

[@draigaur9543]

to be honest, ive enjoyed them , im old n crap now ,reactions times are way down, i dont want to spoil other ppls fun by fecking up a run , or being booted . i dont have time to study all the tactics ,but im also not chasing the top gear, im here to have fun ,relax and forget my day

[@Wowmusicable]

I love Delves! Finally a fun way of getting great gear.

[@wowclassicshort]

I see delves as more of a spec imbalance problem than anything else. On most specs t8 delves are challenging but not punishing, but there are a few specs that are are more challenging. This is speaking as solo content, I think groups are more balanced.

[@Jaddort]

@@wowclassicshort I think allowing the companion to tank would help some of those classes like mage and rogue.. but there must’ve been a reason they chose not to go that route. Other than technical issues I can’t think of one though

[@ashenlion805]

​@@Jaddort Incompetence is the answer. Blizzard has been around 60-75% incompetent for around 15 years now.

[@Donnerbalken28]

Dude, entire classes have it much harder than others in higher delves. Clothies are bordering on being unplayable unless you show the same commitment to Delves as you'd normally would to Heroic Raids, and that's sadly crossing a line for me, for something that's supposed to be the casual route compared to M+ and Raids.

[@jacklarson2491]

The way I look at it is like this (new player here btw): As it stands a week you can expect to get 4 pieces of champion gear maybe 5 depending on key shards and world souls and then 1 piece of vault heroic & maybe 2/3 if you’re lucky with a delvers bounty. On the other hand if you’re running Heroic raids and you minimum 10-15 man that you can expect maybe 1-2 pieces of gear w/ non roll champion drops on each boss. Assuming you’re running with a guild or a regular group of buddies through that raid you’re gonna get hero geared up fairly quickly compared to the one man running delves and having to wait for vault every week. So I don’t see the issue with delves being easier because in reality those people running delves and getting that vault hero gear is getting crumbs compared to regular raiders. Especially after week 2,3,4 as your group gets more geared and more loot gets passed on

[@alms07]

I find them a lot more enjoyable than m+.

[@bootnscoot5265]

Really i think the game still spends too much time building walls. MoP remix was a great example of what happens when you tear all that down and just let the game be fun, it was the most raid participation i have had since legion. The bronze system was great, progress was simply tied to playing the game and not x,y or z. Can't believe i miss Remix as much as i do.

[@ashenlion805]

Mop remix was the most fun I've had in wow in nearly 15 years.

[@actuallyroot9663]

People have just been conditioned by M+ and want to go go go, pull room, AoE down, go go go. delves are not that and it’s breaking people’s heads. These are meant to be slow, thoughtful, strategic, and really make you think about your entire kit.

[@JohnDoe-od1pu]

I like delves. The only annoying thing is you can only get 4/5 coffer keys per week. Once you’re out, they’re kinda meaningless until next week.

[@MugenSaint]

@@JohnDoe-od1pu friendly reminder to use the group finder and join a raid for radiant echo events. You can consume 5 echoes and be rewarded with 150-200 key fragments. You should be able to do this weekly after using your existing keys for another two ish keys.

[@piccolo_bsc]

How is that a problem though? By now you could've had around 25-30 keys. That should be way more than enough to get a 603 item in most slots, fill the rest with crafting items. You don't need a bountiful delve for the vault or treasure maps.

[@Queltomen]

Delve gearing is great. It's right over LFR and on par with normal almost. Perfect way to get into a patch without over fucking everything. Plus it also permits players to get a high piece of gear once a week if you grinded it out, more options isn't a bad thing. The delves definitely need way more cosmetic options.

[@kaira9094]

I love Delves, Mythic plus was never my cup of tea as all my friends have moved on from the game but Delves are a massive breath of fresh air.

[@ZK-sz8vs]

the delves are very strange. at times they have felt mage tower levels of difficult, at other times almost trivial, and everything inbetween. i like having them in the game though, and tuning doesnt seem to be a problem exclusive to delves, this whole expansion feels like it was released 3 months early and needed a lot more time to fix bugs and adjust numbers, as indicated by the almost daily multi-hour maintenance that has been happening since pre-patch dropped. but im glad for any content that saves me from having to pug with randoms. wows players have become.....nasty lately. dont remember it being that bad even just a few x-pacs ago, though maybe my temporary stay in eorzea spoiled me on that games polite and well moderated community, but i swear in nearly 20 years of playing wow its players have never seemed more venomous and impatient.

[@NotClosedMinded]

Start by actively call out bullshit/gatekeeping/elitism when you see/hear it.

[@Fuzzy810]

I like them. Balancing was a bit weird but all seemes ok now.

[@bobbythefish4836]

The latter half of this discussion hits one of my biggest frustrations with WoW. That the game is very bad about teaching you how it works. The questing campaign asks so little of players, and then instanced content expects a depth of knowledge. You get some target dummies and virtually no context in order to practice anything important to instances within the game. When my brother got me into this game, I loved questing and seeing the world and the environments and the stories, but then he would queue me up for instances and I would be completely at a loss for what was going on. I remember being new and not knowing what an interrupt was. I didn't find out until someone outside the game explained it. Then I remember hating that I kept trying to interrupt gray bars and it wouldn't work. Then someone outside the game explained stuns/CC. I didn't learn defensives until someone swore at me in my first raid for not using them, and again I had to go outside the game to look it up and learn. Every time I learned something that improved my game performance, it was from outside the game. The over-reliance on outside sources to make up for poor game design is WoW's biggest weakness and probably it's worst player experience failure. I am hopeful that they will change this because I see them adding features like follower dungeons and delves. The addition of Exile's reach does a much better job of helping new players understand how the interface works and how things change as you level up. The Proving Grounds was a great feature idea to allow for practice of the different spec roles. They have done a better job about teaching how the new crafting system works (again I learned how it works mainly by reading outside sources). All these features are good, but they are lagging behind other features in how effective their are and what players need. They honestly ought to have one of their design teams focusing on designing content that introduces and demonstrates player and enemy game mechanics as part of the level up experience. The closest thing I have seen to something like this is the Order Hall campaign quests that required you to use certain spells in certain places. They clearly are able to do these things in the game, but they don't. You see in their other games that they are certainly capable, especially RTS like Starcraft 2, where the campaign doubles as the teaching tool. They clearly know player education and experience is fundamental to good game design. Not in WoW though. My theory is that they have essentially outsourced player education to KZbinrs.

[@feure26]

From somebody who quit for two expansions delves have really helped me to relearn my class and with gearing without having to play with others.

[@Howlet01]

For me, delves have been wildly successful. I get gear that matters, for a reasonable time and stress level investment. I don’t care about raid, I’ll do m+ when I have better gear, it’s pretty much exactly what I want rn from wow.

[@AndreasMnck]

Pretty sure Blizzard has completely lost control of their complicated dynamic scaling system. TWW has so many very weird bugs as well. Everything has complicated hidden modifiers, which your client has to calculate, which they can tune on the fly. It has probably turned into a spaghetti code nightmare.

[@Thraxis]

way to humble brag, not every player wants to no life and get 15 weak auras, some just want to play a game

[@light18pl]

I mean there are plenty od already prepared packs online. You dont have to set them up yourself.

[@Thraxis]

@@light18pl fuck weak auras

[@light18pl]

@@Thraxis you dont have to use them if you dont want to. I just wanted to sat that setting them up is not that bad.

[@alfred0231]

@@Thraxis Blizzard really should add something to pin buffs though. Like tracking Ironfur on Guardian Druid is nearly impossible on base UI.

[@SantiLucero098]

Fuck weak auras x2

[@aaricgrendrake]

Me Michael. Delves are for me. Deal with it.

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

No one is happy with Delves? That's absolutely not what I'm hearing from lots of players who love delves (me included). The reason why some people struggle has nothing to do with Delves being too hard but people being incapable of adapting their playstyle and making actual use of their abilities. I see a lot of priests complain for example....while other priests simply mind control enemies, make use of invisibility potions etc and easily handle the delves. So what is the problem here - the Delves or people thinking they can play a Delve like a Dungeon without having to adapt? 2?17 And, so what? You get Mythic raid gear from the M+ track in the vault even though the level of M+ you have to beat for that gear is much, MUCH easier than a mythic raid. Sorry, but that's no argument whatsoever.

[@nathanbrammer8471]

I'm really enjoying delves at the moment

[@AngryTheChipmonk]

If the question is about gear, who cares. Players are going to be getting gear catch up in 11.1 anyway. Then they'll be doing catch up gear in 11.2. Rinse and repeat. If I want the transmog (which I don't cause most of the raid sets are ass) I'll wait for the next expansion or the expansion after for legacy loot. They're challenging enough, they've got enough skill locked behind them that you have to know your kit. This is something that solo players have been asking for so long to have. They need to get the tuning down for sure, but if the question is about the "we shouldn't be giving gear" to it, the answer is there should be.

[@ithelan]

Delves need a lot more telegraphing on avoidable, uninterruptable abilities, positional requirements and in general mechanic focused design (tankbusters/defensives/interrupts/cc)

[@antons7210]

Delves have potential, they just need to work out the balancing of it for each spec/class and effort for reward

[@Big_Cap]

We've reached the point of the wow xpac where not too long ago "everything is incredible" to "well is it actually though?" Then eventually to "it's actually not good at all" Then we will rinse repeat for next xpac.

[@Asin24]

To be fair there is a honeymoon period. Expansions usually come out with people hyped with even expansions like Shadowlands being praised or enjoyed despite having clear flaws. It's just usually a case of how well the expansion was coming out for how long that honeymoon period lasts and players really start to reflect and realize what they really feel about it.

[@antons7210]

Ah yes, the endless hamster wheel that is World of Warcraft. Fun times

[@andruism7]

Things have fluctuated so hard... was having to be super careful with t7 delves on my hunter since one mistake could get me killed. Then just the other day I did the same tier on my shadow priest and breezed through it. Wasn't sure if it was a change on Blizz's end or if priest was just shockingly good comparatively.

[@WakeNShake-h7c]

i only just found out delves give more gear than just trinkets and rings, my first 12 bountiful delves only gave rings and trinkets :/

[@Sargaxiist2022]

I just did 4 and got 3 trinkets and a belt. The belt rolled a socket so that was cool. But man, the fucking trinkets lmao

[@marsmech]

Omg yes I've gotten 2 trinkets 4 times.

[@antons7210]

Same, first bountiful delve on the alt gave me shoulders though, used the catalyst on that right away lol

[@NaomiYuki]

19:10 - Holy priest doesn't have an interupt. we can stop trash mobs once every 30s by casting psychic scream and have a stun on a 60s CD, but that doesn't effect all mobs, for example end delve boss's whom are immune to hard CC, of course you could switch specs. but moving from a crit mastery verse haste build to a Haste verse build isn't kind

[@aaronbrungardt2917]

Four minutes in, he says "Within the context of our raid group..." ... Delves are not for players who have raid groups. Delves are for a substantial amount of players who shit on the need to make raid groups to play a game. If you have the time, go for it. And to be fair, raid groups should maybe get a little better gear. But not every player these days can devote the time to get 580 gear within a few weeks after an expansion has been out and the do a daily pod cast about it.

[@malenky4057]

'Noones happy with them' is a bit strong. I'd take delves as my weekly 'chore' over mindless worldquest grinding every time. Great for solo or casual players, and T8 are enough of a challenge for more serious players and raiders. Having a bit of incentive via vault rewards for the brand new system is also completely fine. I think some of the sentiment around this channel dooming is a bit overblown, but I don't agree with the take here at all.

[@Chandaman1975]

Delves should have been exclusively solo content. It's not about the gear for me. I'd be quite happy if delve completions never touched the vault at all, and I could maybe get a piece of Champion gear at T8 and not before. For me it's about being able to have some progress on my characters without HAVING to do dungeons. mythics or raids. I don't have the time I used to have and I'd rather avoid the nonsense of having to group with randoms. By allowing groups to do delves it turned into the balancing nightmare we've all seen.

[@Raika63]

They're fun, could be harder though. I do not understand what the problem is with rewarding decent gear. Seems fine as it is.

[@gentlepengu]

when given the choice between toxic players+best gear and solo content+second class citizen gear forever and ever, unless you just reeeally love wow and can never quit it, people just...don't play.

[@Random_Guardsman]

I do Delves solo or with 1 other person, first couple of weeks were fun, a challenge, but at my current ilvl 608 im not worried about dying anymore. Reward wise they have now turned into a chore I need to do for the vault reward. Great for gearing alts tho;P Im guessing I was never the target audience for Delves.

[@Cirathos]

There are people that know "how" to use the top tier gear, but that is dependent on the group composition too. The gear offers the chance to get into that group as opposed to that group saying you don't know how to play because your gear is bad.

[@Menion98]

I rarely raid because I don’t have a guild and pugs are awful. I experience no challenge doing normal Nerubar palace and often I’m wiping. 8 delves I can’t say are hard but they are more challenging than a normal raid. It’s just faster.

[@vir6487]

Loving them, I just wish they offered you more NPCs than Brann and maybe someone with a tank spec (maybe balance it so that you can only select it if you are playing healer)

[@Zxorcon]

As a shadow priest ive found myself using dominated mobs a LOT to tank things.. absolute best case I have a 30s cd on my interrupt, and thats giving up dps to get it down from 45 seconds, mobs with a interupt or die cast with a 20 second cd.. I basically just have to heal/tank through, or out dps

[@manicmonarch2608]

They're for me. 40+ blue collar work week and kids. I get to enjoy some pve problem solving and don't have to run at the whips of the mythic+ backseat drivers.

[@TheGoatBeats]

Delves are very good at 7-8 rank, the rewards below are mehh. That being said, its like solo raiding, the best feature of delves though i think its the lack of a timer and the introduction of death counts. It actually gives you the possibility to plan out the battle instead of just running after the timer and miss everything. The graphics in delves are very good and having the time, one can really enjoy them and get that rpg feeling.

[@GoodPunk]

The Delve-Paradox: I want delves to be easier to be less stressful, but I want them to be hard so my gear matters. 😅😅

[@ghostdoggtv]

Delves are for people who dont want to deal with toxic elements of the community but still want an engaging, immersive and challenging PvE experience and can't afford to waste the time forming and dealing with player groups.

[@Ghotet]

My issue with delves as a rogue main are the bosses have 18 billion fcking health and basically 1 shot me so Im expected to survive for 5 fcking minutes and not get hit once. its bs so I stopped doing them at all. too infuriating and makes me hate my favorite class.

[@richiepipes8960]

Tricks brann, then when he loses aggro, pop evasion/cloak, then when those are over, vanish so bran regains aggro. If boss still isnt dead kite through branns traps for added dps. Ive had zero issue

[@j.a.1785]

I like delves, but Im not a sweat so I'm sure thats a part of it.

[@SGTxGiggleFairy]

sorry but as someone with real life commitments and responsibilities, i only have time to raid 1 day a week with my casual guild, which is the same fir all of them, so delves are definitely a good way of getting the gear im NOT getting in raid, theres no universe where delves are bad

[@dnord76]

I guess I do them wrong because they take me about 30 minutes a wack and I am ilvl 590+ as well.

[@irinainna9208]

They are either lying about 15 mins or they do it in group.Which used to be way easier than solo for the first few days cause of buggy scaling. You are not doing anything wrong,30mins is about normal .

[@ArchMagus1]

love delves. these are just growing pains. its going to get better, its early days yet.

[@hoytdotblohm]

I like delves and follower dungeons because competition does not drive me, exploration and creativity drive me. I will always feel out of place in any situation where someone else depends on me. I am truly grateful for the lengths that blizzard has gone to make so much of the game now obtainable for me. I also appreciate the content and discussion on this channel, thank you for your content.

[@Northreyar7314]

I don't understand why are people confused, clearly Delves is content made for the Main Character class, Blood Deathknight, we await you at tier 11.

[@Karpata1]

Tell me you don't understand the Helldivers 2 situation without telling me you don't understand the Helldivers 2 situation.

[@edgyguy7084]

I think a big part in getting hit by avoidable stuff is also the visual cluttering of my character. Good example is DK: things like remorsless winter or especially the grabby hands make it so hard to track these visuall things. Even more so as a new tank that trys to not die in the pull and then has a big, non off-toggleable, dark green/black cloud around u.

[@TheShadowfirestorm]

As a hunter bran has just been pissing me off, I have lost count already of the times he has broken my frost traps

[@hurtlocker23]

Bellular fan here but this shows his lack of connection to the average player.

[@chasedubois160]

Maybe Blizz wants to give higher gear in delves as "click bait" to get more participation to build a bigger analysis profile for better tuning down the road.

[@Cardan011]

Came back to retail because of delves, enjoying them immensely

[@dumorte]

They're for me. I love em. I'm a solo player in a guild but i do heroic raiding with them. I don't like mythics, so my gearing for raid comes from delves. And with my ass luck, delves is the only sure way I get gear lol. Before that, gearing came from lfr and normals and it took a lot longer to be raid ready.

[@Lmwpitt]

Delves are great for someone like me that has no time to spend trying to find groups/raids; especially when players are often petty about the meta, ilvl, and only want "exp" even though we're 2 weeks into the season.

[@FutureWarCultist]

594 ret pally T8 Earth Mine was just a wee shy of being able to solo with Beard as a healer 😂

[@100Predator]

I think the problem with delves and maybe wow overall in general, its just about numbers its very few skillshots or something similiar, its just about numbers, its not about outskill a dungeon just outgear. A player cant avoid those hardhitting mobs, but if the delves where slightly more towards mage tower style. you could probably clear it with any gear, its just about how fast. Sure you could outgear magetower but it felt like atleast there was some skill involved.

[@KNByam]

I had an argument with some guild mates about delves. My problems with them are, they should be a solo mini dungeon or a no more than 3 group dungeon. Also, it should not reward the same item level as raids or high mythic keys. I understand some players want to play solo, but this is not a solo game. You cannot have raiders banging their heads on difficult bosses and be rewarded with the same item level gear as a solo player that rolls over 1 boss in a mini dungeon. This is just my take on it.

[@ElKabong3345]

I'm loving delves. A lot of people do, it's such good solo content. The issue with group content is that, once it starts, you cannot pause. You start, and you have to make it to the end. As an adult, you could be in the middle of something, and oh no, the baby is crying. Not being able to pause and do real life things at the spur of the moment is what gives MMORPGs such a bad rep. And you can just pause per pull just to be social, even in just text chats, and that's something that's been missing in games for such a long time. The Delves Chat has pretty much had a sigh of relief from the above... but it won't last long sadly At one point, the Delves will get repetitive, and it'll put everyone in a bad mood. They are good, but they just started. There's not enough of them to keep them fresh for 2 years.

[@d4mephisto]

I said it months before TWW launched: don't play at the start, it's going to be "us paying them to BETA TEST their game" and I was right I'll be back playing the game in season 2, but season 1 is always straight up sh*t tier quality from Blizzard, cuz they can never get their games ready in time for launch. They release everything in beta state and then fix it later. I am SICK AND TIRED of this development cycle, so now I don't play their games near launch. I wait a good 3-6 months and then start. F*ck you lazy developers, do your god damn jobs and make games that ARE READY TO BE PLAYED ON DAY ONE instead of making all of your players just a bunch of chumps who PAY YOU TO BETA TEST YOUR GAME FOR FREE. It's madness

[@lauragoodin6422]

I love delves, bring me more.

[@Mitchel6489]

Helldivers has 100k concurrent players now after the patch.

[@Fazquel]

I started raiding in Shadowlands. I had fun but the story was embarrassingly pointless. Things feel so much better right now and I'm so thankful

[@jdmike06]

Everyone I know loves delves

[@jimmyodinson9841]

I totally understand this. I've played since the tail end of vanilla and went hard through Lich much to the detriment of my married life and ended up going full casual to save said married life and now play often but little and I'm having an ok time with delves with my gear at 593 and able to clear 8's somewhat comfortably but can't beat Zekver and I know it's down to my personal skill not just gear. I'll get him eventually but I've learned over the years I'm no top tier player and I play just for fun now. PVP I've dabbling in over the years but I know 100% my PVP skills are dogshit and don't feel the need to put the time into bettering them as it's not content I really enjoy. For the same reasons I don't do mythics either. So it's nice to have something like delves to get a bit of nice gear to make everything else a little easier. Skills can be learned but also lost if you're not using regular. Raiding is the same. Hit that hard back in Lich but now I dabble here and there and it's not the same.

[@blargathon]

Eh. Social media drama. I love delves. Content that is fun and a touch challenging I can do myself? Yes. I will take it. Don’t have the same time I used to, delves fill a niche for me.

[@aaronbrungardt2917]

Playing options... it's another way to play the game... how is this a bad thing? There is a genuine significant amount of players who prefer not to partake in group content. Torghast was like this as well, except for when they made it timed and had no gear rewards made it pointless. Delves are similar but better. Even before Torghast, look at how much people liked having their own strongholds in Warlords of Draenor. I think they should expand the idea of NPCs running through dungeons with players to possibly have the NPCs be a player's alternates... and even doing dungeon runs on Heroic... or expanding the Warband to 5 instead of 4 so that your Warband can go into dungeons as a whole, make an entire party, learn how to tank, how to be a healer and do various DPS roles within your own Warband dungeon crawls. That's what I thought they were going to do until I heard that Warbands are only 4 characters... Once again, a good concept not done just right... almost there... maybe next time.

[@tinag9618]

I know im not a great player, you are great players. Im afraid of LFR and heroic dungeons for fear of getting kicked or dying too much

[@NotClosedMinded]

aww, Dont worry you can easily join LFR's or heroic dungeons. Sure there may be some assholes but most people don't mind, specially if you mention you are new or inexperienced.

[@Alnarra]

Delves feel fine as DPS, I despise them as a healer though =/ which is a shame because prior to Brann having his crap nerfed to hell and back, it was actually fun as a healer.

[@mus0rmus1c3]

I love delves so far. I think the tuning was def a bit weird initially, but the current solo difficulty seems pretty good. The tooltip says iLevel 600 for tier 8 and I was doing them with one death or less at 585. I think it's a good way to get gear if you can't or don't want to engage in group play. Sometimes I feel antisocial and just wanna play by myself. Or maybe I want play with my friend, but not other people.

[@Frizzings]

Delves can be very enjoyable on some classes but awful on others, blizzard needs to stop being lazy and balance each one per class when solo

[@BloodVixen]

I want void paladins. 🖤

[@34Vilend]

This again comes down to, players are optimizing the fun out of the game. It’s meant to be a progression. Good players can get it sooner, average and “bad” players will get it later. That’s how it goes in game and life 😂

[@BananaWiskers]

Me and my buddies love them

[@Jaddort]

Delves are great. My 2 complaints are 1) not enough coffer keys accessible weekly. I should be able to easily run 8 bountifuls a week if doing all my world stuff. 2) they should be 1-2 players max. Letting people turn them into quicker dungeons seems silly.

[@ElKabong3345]

Yes, but not 3 2's company, 3's a crowd. When it gets to 3, it turns into a "majority vote" of what occurs, peer pressure. When it's 2, usually you're inviting a friend back to the game, or introducing the game to a new player. It isn't as overwhelming all at once to them.

[@struthgaming3425]

So while I love you guys and the crew here on the channel I have to say that when you speak of Raiding, Mythic and specifically Delves...the casual crowed etc, you come across as quite elitist. I've been playing this since alpha. While I have raided and main tanked back in the day there was one thing that never eluded me. The fact that far more people are casual players than any raiding or mythic group. The vast majority of the funding for this game came from casuals. I mean most of the twenty years. Best thing that Blizzard could do is give you all your very own Servers. Similar to PvP with the option to set mobs and raid difficulty as you wish. I am sure I will get no end of shade on this but I don't mind nor do I care. Keep on with the stuff. You are appreciated. Cheers.