Democracy 4 Developer Blog #48: Voting Systems DLC

[@XER0GRAVITY]

How much are you gonna charge for this new DLC?

[@positechgames]

As I recall its set at $5.99

[@jacobmerenda2086]

The idea of affecting voter turnout among different groups specifically sounds like a fun idea, can't wait to try it out! As a suggestion for the Voter ID Laws policy, it should also lower turnout for Poor people since a major criticism of the policy includes putting a price tag on the cards and an inconvenience to obtain since they aren't mailed to you directly (and maybe have the ID Cards policy under Law & Order lower or even eliminate that negative change since that would imply you issued ID at the federal level?) Thanks for doing these updates!

[@TheOtherWhiteNerd]

I think it should perhaps lower poor opinion instead of ethnic minority opinion as well.

[@opreadumitru1]

off topic Might not be a popular opinion but seriously very few 18yrs young people are mentally or politically mature enough to be able to be unbiased and vote responsibly. It takes life experience, culture and to be actively following the news to be able to assess who's really keeping their election promises after they win elections. Even adults can be tricked many times since they have little time to watch the developments in their country and correctly know who to vote. I think in the interwar period between the two world wars the voting age was 21 in more european countries if I am not mistaken. Politicians tend to be more or less opportunistic in their behaviour to reach their short term goals and then reward their sponsors who financed their campaigns usually in an unethical way with public funds(state's money) I played the game some years ago was quite difficult especially at the max level of dificulty but learned a lot more than just reading. A national bank button or icon with multiple decision options for players can be added in future editions because in real life monetary policy of interest is also important in helping or damaging a country economically speaking.

[@solidmentalgrace]

will the start and stop trigger for the bureaucracy situation be raised to accommodate for the new higher number of policies?

[@positechgames]

Good question! I will make a note to adjust it in this case...

[@Spfnym]

There's some graphical glitching at 31:26 for the Campaign Spending bar. And if the Election Robocalls policy is just about limiting them, it seems misleading for a name. But thanks for the video and continuing development.

[@positechgames]

is that not just the button below it flashing red when the cursor moves over it?

[@Spfnym]

​@@positechgames No, I'm not talking about that. Look at the rightmost tip of the "Campaign Spending" bar. It's like it's resizing itself very rapidly back and forth between slightly smaller and slightly larger than the correct size.

[@TheStevenWhiting]

Yes more videos but play through to teach us all. Never been into politics but bought the game anyway and you make it sound interesting.

[@norberthyla9621]

I think that making state subsidies for parties flat isn't the best representation of the policy. In most countries, parties receive amount proportional to how many votes they've got in a election.

[@joaopedrocruz6432]

Maybe have two policies for that,one for the amount and other for the distribution.

[@f1sh98]

Thank you cliffski! I’d like to take the time to advocate bringing the game to Mac and possibly iOS as well Sincerely, a loyal democracy player of over 10 years

[@CPT85]

Same. I’m a Mac user and I’ve been dying to play this game.

[@positechgames]

have you tried it in an emulator? D4 uses an old version of opengl, and should work fine in wine or anything similar

[@aturchomicz821]

I mean I like how this makes the countries seem more diffrent from each other and I like some of these nw policies but how much will this actually affect a regular playthrough in the end? I won plenty of elections even with much lower party membership compared to my opposition so has that been tweaked at all now?

[@positechgames]

I guess it depends on the country/difficulty and how you play. The PR system will result in more votes for 3rd parties, so more chance of coalition governments.

[@leonarddavis8732]

I just started playing the game. I absolutely love it!

[@Darth_Callum]

You should look in to adding Land Value Tax to the game.

[@positechgames]

Will come soon as a free update

[@piaomiaotianzun]

@@positechgames You should consider adding some communist, socialist, revisionist elements to the game, not sure if you know China? Believe that this will add to the fun of the game.

[@Luke-tt3dt]

There's an excellent mod by FeelinWitchy which adds Land Value Tax

[@Frozen_Sorrow]

I'm trying to mod the effects of firearm policies. If I do it in the policies.csv file it does work, but if I copy it into a separate mod folder the game seems to stick to the original file.

[@positechgames]

Hi, if you want to change how an existing policy works, you need to create an override.Take a look at the bottom here: positech.co.uk/democracy4/mod_countries.html You can do it for a specific country, but I think it also works globally

[@Frozen_Sorrow]

@@positechgames Thank you very much!

[@Frozen_Sorrow]

@@positechgames I do have a suggestion on that. It seems that the game is using the word 'liberal' in the US sense, i.e. people being progressive on social issues. So stricter gun control should actually gain the support of liberals while causing a backlash from the conservatives. Different countries will have different attitudes on it, too, so maybe I should do it for separate countries, but you may want to do an update on that, too.

[@positechgames]

@@Frozen_Sorrow Hi, no we actually use the European concept of liberal, so we have liberals in the game being against all restrictions of freedom, including guns and drugs. In fact we get a lot of Americans saying we have got this wrong, because of the way they use liberal, so I tend to tell Americans to see liberal and think libertarian :D. We do have a bunch of overrides for different countries, but we don't re-define liberal for the US because that would likely cause even more confusion.

[@Frozen_Sorrow]

@@positechgames I see. I live in the UK and I can get what you mean, but I think it's just different for the US so probably just need to create an override for that. But I do think that 'liberals' in Europe don't care too much about gun control (they are already very strict anyway) and focus more on issues like drugs.

[@verttikoo2052]

Finland has the best voting system 🥳

[@not_doxing_myself]

Cliff, I'm curious about the voting system. I am aware that we have a two-party duopoly in the US, while in the UK, there is a parliament that lets coalitions and more parties have power in the UK. In short, could I change a nation from a 2 party to a 3 party system and vice versa?

[@positechgames]

Currently no, we have no way to do that. Its a choice made in the options screen when starting a new game. In theory, I guess we could argue that new parties should emerge in changing the system... but I wonder if the US duopoly is more cultural than based on voting systems? UK has a fairly similar system, and yet (just about) manages to scrape together a 3rd party

[@Luke-tt3dt]

The UK effectively has a two party duopoly too because of the First Past the Post system that it has in common with the United States. A good country to look at with a more proportionate voting system would be New Zealand, and even then most people end up voting for either Labour or National. I'm wondering if NZ will make an appearance in a future DLC, perhaps one that's focused on the environment/climate change, or housing since NZ has a pretty severe housing crisis/bubble

[@not_doxing_myself]

​@@Luke-tt3dt, I was primarily focusing on this as a way to a means. In my head, I was thinking of being able to form coalitions like the US. Which, to my knowledge, requires a parliament similar to how it is in most of Europe. And I mention 3rd party because that's how I believe the game run's a coalition.

[@merox1751]

@@positechgames I'm not sure if you'll read this, but I don't think the US' system is mainly due to culture. The US system of government was designed by idealistic people who imagined a non-partisan system where debate would sway a a large amount of people in chambers, with everyone being sort of neutral and nonpartisan , looking at the facts and benefits instead of political gain. However this means that the system cannot effectively function with 3rd parties. Large 3rd parties can block the electoral college, easily cause endless filibuster and stonewall a president, who can only wait them out or lose in the next elections. With the UK, the supremacy of the legislature and there being only 1 directly elected chamber (and the lords having nearly no power) causes 3rd parties to be more viable. If we're going to see any 3rd party candidates win in the US, it'll be in the junior branch of congress, the house of reps, and 2 or 3 people there won't affect anything anyways. The UK also has a very localist approach to their representatives, where personal charisma and ability to connect with constituents is much more important, and allows for a smaller parties or even an independent member to have a shot at winning against party machines. The US Reps should have this, but the Reps being sort of irrelevant in many cases leads to most people voting party line unless there are extreme circumstances. Sorry for the long response but I thought you might be interested in some of the reasons why the US' system is much more duopolistic than the UK's, and in short, it's the addition of the Senate and the executive being directly elected without input from the legislature.

[@Luke-tt3dt]

Maybe it's already in the pipeline for a future update or DLC, but a couple of policies I'd love to see implemented in the future are Working Time Directive and 4 Day Work Week (to counter the rising unemployment as a result of late game automation). 4 Day Work Week in particular would be an interesting one, I would envision a sliding scale that goes from 'Regional Trials' and 'State Employees Only' at one end, to 'Tax Incentives' in the middle, to 'Heavy Fines For Breaching 4 Day Limit/Outright Ban on >4 Day Weeks' at the other end. Positive effects would be a reduction in unemployment, a rise in productivity per person-hour worked, a boost to mental health, potentially also charity (in the form of voluntary work), and education (people using their time off to pursue degrees/diplomas/other qualifications) and happy socialists and trade unionists And negative effects would likely be a reduction in GDP, potential contribution to the Skill Shortage (less time at work means it takes longer to train people into a role) and Uncompetitive Economy events, and unhappy Capitalists, scaling exponentially with how extreme you are in enforcing the 4 day week Of course these effects would need to be informed by real-world empirical data from where 4 day weeks have actually been trialled on a small scale e.g. in Iceland, Finland, New Zealand, Canada

[@eXistenZ15]

The maximum voting age always remains me of the following quote; 70-80 year olds are generally regarded as unemployable due to mental decline / skill mismatch - yet they're exclusively running the country

[@NesttaRasta]

Hello i know it's probably the wrong place to ask this but i have an issue with Production Line. I wanted to have all my painting in one place but it's seems i can't cross conveyors and it makes it difficult to manage a centralized painting factory. Could you help me ? Love your work anyway

[@positechgames]

Hi, as i recall, you CAN get crossroads in the line, you just need to make sure the before and after slots for each line are the right ones. Basically cars will get to a junction, then turn towards the first available slot that is the next slot they expect.

[@MrLeLaitier]

What do you think about adding some singaporean or israeli policiers ?

[@jasperwhite0320]

absolutely love this DLC! just wondering, does the proportional representation voting system have the same election screen as the standard one and its also who gets the highest % of votes

[@positechgames]

yes, same screen, but more voters are likely to vote for a third party, and also more people vote in general, as PR is a boost to turnout

[@ben-ce5ll]

hello, please don't know anyone how to create a new media message Thank you in advance for your reply I am sorry for my bad English

[@andrejparunovic]

Dearest of dearest Cliff, might I ask have you played any political games recently, like Suzerain or moded HOI4 (since there isn't really politics in the base game)?

[@joaopedrocruz6432]

What about policies relating to liquid democracy, like leaving some decisions made directly by the people decided by policy popularity ( maybe you have a system to approve them or not). You loose some control of the country but increase democracy and approval in some ways.

[@StrangeGameA]

This is such a great game and not many people know about it

[@joaopedrocruz6432]

Doesn't proportional representation help more radical parties because people are not afraid of loosing their vote supporting them?

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

Wait, No STV?

[@Seth9809]

What would that mechanically even do?

[@ClaytonMalarkey]

What you working on now cliff

[@emilysoda4689]

I think it would be intresting to make a policy on voter tolls. It will greatly deinsentivise poor and on higher levels, middle class turnout, while simultaneously generating revenue for one turn before the election.

[@CPT85]

It’s definitely good to see you address the American electoral college. Indeed, it has to be looked at as an aspect within an aspect within an aspect. Also none of the other playable countries besides the US have this. However you could perhaps have gerrymandering come in to play, which is much more commonplace in most any democratic/semi-authoritarian country. Depressing, but relevant.

[@positechgames]

I considered it, but it might make things a little too easy. Which is also depressing :(

[@danielj5483]

One thing I never understood is why you often have very low popularity at the start of a game. You just won an election, shouldn't you at least be a little popular?

[@MidnightBreezey]

So I can finally win reelection in Japan?

[@Freemanicus]

The DLC broke policy text, fix it mate. L DLC so far.

[@positechgames]

Set language to english, then back again. That should fix it

[@Freemanicus]

@@positechgames I know the fix already fam, but it should be fixed so people stop thinking it's my or someone else's mod/fault. Just found out that you have Covid, get better soon fam.

[@positechgames]

@@Freemanicus Actually yesterdays fix should have fixed it already, but its only applied the first time you run the game.