Demon's are NOT fallen angels (Dr. Michael Heiser)

Full interview here: • What the Bible ACTUALL...

[@Skullnaught]

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

[@Joker22593]

I think St. Augustine suggests the idea that when God made light and separated the light from darkness that there's a double meaning of also separating the good and bad angels.

[@Skullnaught]

@@batescave Very obviously Revelation 12

[@saltysaints7125]

@@Skullnaught Where does Revelation 12 state that Satan’s angels are now demons, and where does it say that this took place before the Eden account? Heiser’s point still stands.

[@ajmeier8114]

@@saltysaints7125 Where does the Bible talk about the Trinity?

[@saltysaints7125]

@@ajmeier8114 About the Trinity, or say the word Trinity? It talks about the Trinity quite a bit, (Baptism of Jesus being the most direct.) but never mentions the word Trinity. I’m curious how you’re going to tie that in with our current discussion though.

[@TheJMan31]

People just listen to what he says, demons aren’t fallen angels. Fallen angels do in fact exist and are by definition evil BUT they are not demons. Demons are different entities also evil. Demons seem to be the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim who are the offspring of fallen angels. It’s like the difference between a father and son. The father is a different being from the son even though the father brought the son into existence. He’s saying that evil fallen angels brought demons into existence. Both exist. Both are evil. BUT they are different beings

[@misterbobby8913]

Your explanation is 100 thousand times better than Michael's

[@TheJMan31]

@@misterbobby8913 thanks! I got a lot of it from him and his books but this isn’t his best explanation

[@SmileLuv-ur9tu]

Yeah I believe fallen angels create demons

[@Hatedlikedavid]

@@SmileLuv-ur9tuyou are correct book of enoch proves that

[@orangeswell1469]

I thought the Hebrew verbal root n-p-l (נ־פ־ל) was "fall". 🤷‍♂️

[@FaCePlaNt_4_YAHUSHA]

Man I miss that guy.. Such a bright and humble scholar.

[@manojgabriel6128]

Rest in peace Dr.Heiser! You're welcomed in Heavenly Kingdom

[@Dynamite703]

In Jesus name amen 🙏

[@paindontmeannothin4051]

How do you know?

[@John-Rambo81]

Jude 6 says he’s incorrect

[@kimtonearts]

​@@John-Rambo81 Who is "he's"? The OP or Dr. Heiser? Ppl are so vague these days, as if they want to say something but would rather not be too specific. There's a time and a place for vague. Comments should be clear & concise at least in who the person is talking about, if there's room for confusion. Js.🕊️ Peace.

[@kimtonearts]

​@@John-Rambo81 Edit: Whatever the case, Dr. Heiser never claimed to be omniperfect nor Teacher omnipotent. In fact he reinnerated often to leave room for discussion, ponderance and when the evidence is there, be willing to change your stance, or at least put a placeholder there and be willing to come back to it. Was he blasphemeous in his teaching? I don't believe so. Did he ever purposefully lead anyone astray for self-serving gain, or even ego? I don't think so. You need to watch some of his Teaching lectures. Its not so much about the recordings of his debates with other scholars, that was just fun for fotter to him. I think what he'll be measured on is how he taught students (and co-Teachers too) to always be open to learning more, but be mindful not to hand one's self over to false prophecy. Is something doesn't fit, chances are, if we are patient, the missing pieces come into view. Some things fall in line or sort themselves out. Many things come with age and wisdom, or Grand Divinity intervenes. Leave room for other possibilities.🕊️ Peace.

[@orpheusasmr9858]

Memory Eternal Dr. Heiser 🙏

[@MathewAlden]

What about Revelation 12? Isn't *that* the verse that says that?

[@01ombladon]

no

[@valentinacamacho7198]

I am sure that verse is about the Birth of Yeshua the Messiah.

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

@Mathew Alden Yes. That chapter is about the nativity of Christ, and about the trouble Israel will face in the end times (1260 days is a time and times and half a time) and it's about the battle Satan has been losing since the beginning. God _loves_ putting multiple meanings in prophesies, partly because He only ever gave so many and He wants us to use them all through our history. Anybody who denies the existence or agency of demons is an agent of theirs. A man who professes Scripture to be a lie makes the Father a liar, and God is not in him.

[@John-Rambo81]

Jude 6

[@WeakestAvenger]

From my understanding, the Eastern Orthodox Church holds that there were multiple falls of angels, the first being Satan's fall, which occurred when he tempted Eve in the garden. That's what I have gathered from listening to Fr. Stephen De Young. He says that the fathers of the church taught that after the creation of the world, the devil fell through envy of humans. Also, Wisdom of Solomon 2:23-24 says, "... for God created us for incorruption and made us in the image of his own eternity, but through the devil's envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his company experience it."

[@marmeemarch7080]

I've just started listening to Dr. Heiser's podcasts after a year or so of listening to the Lord of Spirits one (not caught up tho'). Glad to see someone else trying to put the two together and find their "continuities and discontinuities" heh heh!

[@Kevin_Beach]

So, if demons are not fallen angels, what are they? Does the Bible tell us?

[@donquixote8462]

Yes they are. This teaching is bogus. Stop listening to Heiser. He poo-poos church tradition but I got news for you, you Protestants get the authors of many books of the NT, doctrine of the Trinity, Divinity of Christ, and the cannon of Scripture itself from church tradition and the decisions of the councils... but you just cherry pick what to believe. Also, it IS in scripture, Heiser just doesn't know how to interpret text and again, since he wants to ignore the teachings of the Church Fathers he doesn't understand the fall of the angelic is implied in Genesis 1. Stop inventing your own doctrine.

[@Kevin_Beach]

@@donquixote8462 Well, I'm a pretty well-catechised Catholic! I asked the question to see if he could answer it.

[@alexjaljl]

Spirits of the nephelim that died in the flood

[@MinisterRedPill]

​@@alexjaljl exactly. Too much tradition not enough facts

[@princeofpeaceproductions3506]

Unclean spirits were created by the union of fallen angels with women… created the nephilim… when a nephilim/giant dies their spirit roams the earth till the end of this world and judgement day

[@George_Eréthion]

Okay. If Demons aren't fallen angels, where did they come from? God wouldn't create evil. And Satan can't create on his own. So where did they come from? They ARE fallen angels.

[@marjoriejonsson7502]

👍👍👍👍

[@snafuagain5268]

I’m so glad you asked‼️Dr. Michael Heiser’s book “What does God want?”, answers that and many more questions, plus he puts in all in order with Chapter & Verse‼️That book helped me soooo much putting creation in its real timeline‼️Lots of light bulb moments for me‼️👏👏💯🙏🇺🇸👍

[@theone1535]

They Are the demons the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim

[@BloodRedLFC]

Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).

[@jholyroller6048]

Yes they are gnosticism he teaches

[@JohnSmith-jo1fs]

The Catholic Church does not teach that angels fell before the creation in Genesis 1 and 2. That is an invention of Puritans like John Milton.

[@kingston163]

Actually it does!

[@JohnSmith-jo1fs]

@@kingston163 oh ya. You are right. Excuse me. I actually wrote the wrong thing in the comment. I didn't mean the Fall of Adam and Eve (obviously Satan fell before that). I meant the creation of the world. This idea that the angels fell 'offscreen,' so to speak, is a Puritan invention. Edited my comment accordingly.

[@marmeemarch7080]

Remember, Milton was writing fiction, not systematic theology. Like Dante.

[@mx_moi1964]

@@marmeemarch7080Dante wasn’t either

[@nottiredofwinning3736]

It's almost as if the basis behind "Sola Scriptura" - that the Bible provides all the answers Christians need - is false.

[@marjoriejonsson7502]

^^

[@IAMFISH92]

And this is why Dr. Heiser has always perplexed me! He will be missed.

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

@Not Tired of Winning The Bible says the Bible is all that is necessary. Do you have a higher authority to obey than God?

[@IAMFISH92]

@@joshuakarr-BibleMan the Bible doesn’t say that…anywhere.

[@nottiredofwinning3736]

@@joshuakarr-BibleMan What verse says that? The Bible didn't even exist (put together by the CATHOLIC CHURCH) when the books of the Bible were written!

[@biblicus8204]

Demons are the Spirits of the Nephilim!

[@ChildofGod-q7j]

No thet arent....demons are disembodied spirits....Nephillim created by sons of Gods having sex with human women creating Nephilim...check out Heisers Supernatural Realm ( book or you tube) so informative...biblical txt..love 2 u

[@nutritionnut3975]

Por que no los dos

[@intellicogroup405]

Where does it say that in the Bible?

[@GoemonLovesFujiko]

@@intellicogroup405it’s inferred through the scripture in how it describes the nature of angels and the nature of demons. They are different beings.

[@intellicogroup405]

@@GoemonLovesFujiko I’m not asking where it says they are different beings. Where does it say demons are the spirit of nephilim?

[@rustyshackelford3590]

This is your brain on sola scripture so sad

[@rustyshackelford3590]

Or at least the evangelical way of understanding it

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

Evangelism is spreading the Good News. You can't obey Chriat's command to spread the Gospel and oppose evangelism at the same time. You _can_ however embrace the Scriptures amd the God who gave them to us, and oppose heretics like the guy in the video at the same time.

[@KnightFel]

@@joshuakarr-BibleMan imagine thinking Dr. Heiser is a heretic.

[@KnightFel]

Look at Rome on Sola Ecclesia, such a denial of the scriptures.

[@billyhw5492]

Wow, Dr. Heiser has some really interesting videos up here, but this one is embarrassing.

[@wesmorgan7729]

Sad to hear about his cancer, he's had very interesting thoughts on angels, demons, etc.

[@jnorm888]

If my memory is correct I think that The church fathers who taught that didn't believe that demons came before the fall. Instead they taught what the book of Enoch said (which was) that demons were the Spirits of the nephilum who died in the flood. May he rest in peace, but he's supposed to be a 2nd Temple scholar, and that belief was widespread in the 2nd Temple era. Also Biblical Theology for the Christian should be about how Jesus and His Apostles understood the Hebrew Scriptures. And this is where the Church Fathers come from for they preserved the thought and hermeneutics of Jesus and the Apostles. And so to attack their hermeneutics is to also attack the hermeneutics of not only Jesus and His Apostles, but also the popular hermeneutics of 2nd Temple Judaism.

[@tombourne9930]

What Michael is saying is demons AREN'T fallen angels. Demons are disembodied spirits of the NEPHILIM, the offspring of the fallen angels and women. That's what this video is saying.

[@TheJMan31]

Precisely. Fallen angels are fallen angels and demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Two different entities.

[@jasminkrieger8464]

​@@TheJMan31 nephilim are half human half angel through

[@simonmattes]

He said there is no scripture that says demons are fallen angels, so where is the scripture that says demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim?

[@GoemonLovesFujiko]

@@simonmattesread the scripture. Why else would demons seek to be in bodies again via possession?

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

@@simonmattesJesus gives some insight, he says demons seek dwelling places, which can be humans, it makes sense that demons yearn to be in bodies again as there spirit roams the earth, not able to go to heaven or abyss, Angels are of a higher and different being, gods as they would be called, Elohim, or spirit beings, it does t make sense for them to dwell in people. I believe these are the principalities that have an influence on regions. Only one time do you see satan or an angel enter into someone, and that was in Judas iscariot, in order to do a specific thing. Other than that we see heavenly beings which are not the lesser evil spirits. It is pretty obvious if you study the text and piece them together. Angels in general seem to have power of elements and world affairs which is greater then an unclean spirit trying to inhabit a person seeking rest

[@briansumner6801]

It doesn’t say that that is not what they are either.

[@John-Rambo81]

Jude 6 says God removed them from their position.

[@outof_obscurity]

So in other words it's been passed on for centuries but now we have no way to verify it with our current text. As if something is missing? 🤔

[@Tess-he3qg]

Yes, they are.

[@tcritchfeld481]

In Orthodoxy I believe the answer is demons are both fallen angels and the souls of Nephilim.

[@SOG-xb4qh]

Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

[@radvermin1541]

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day- Jude 1:6 ESV. That and the Revelation passage, et al. His solution is the nephilim being demons creates more problems than it solves.

[@a-aron6724]

That scripture isn't speaking of actual angelic beings.

[@Agnosticuzumaki]

Nowhere in the bible does it say to only obey scripture. So of course you'll have a poor view of demonology

[@SmileLuv-ur9tu]

Who cares about demonology lol

[@johnmichalski5981]

Absolutely! "Sola scriptura" is non-scriptural.

[@justchilling704]

That’s false.

[@Agnosticuzumaki]

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Here scripture proves it out

[@music0326]

it says in Revelation do not add or subtract from the bible in its entirety.

[@dominiquedevereux7205]

But he says there isn't a single book in the (CURRENT) Bible 📖 that says demons 👹 are fallen angels. But people act like the Council of Nicaea never happened. Meaning anytime man has his hands in putting together information to disseminate to the masses to shape their psychology that there's a lot of 🍒-picking going on to serve the narratives that these Powers-That-Be. The books 📚 that are in the current Bible we're chosen to be in it @ aforementioned council. And of the books that ARE in the Bible, much of the content was changed by Powers-That-Be cuz it didn't jibe with their agenda. Many books 📚 like The Book of Enoch & MANY other books were purposely left out that fill in the gaps that cause the current iteration of the Bible less confusing. People act like the Bible was written by God's hands & personally put in the hands of a man, already organized & put together 🙄. It is the INSPIRED Word of God, meaning it had to pass through the filter/interpretational abilities of a fallible human. God is NOT a God of confusion so given how many contradictions & "holes 🕳️/ gaps" there are in the Bible, the only explanation can be they exist due to the manipulation of man. "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord which I command you." --- Deut 4:2/ Deut. 12:32 "And if anyone takes words away from this scroll 📜 of prophecy, God will take away that person's portion in the tree of life." Revelation 22:19 If our leaders in The Church 🕌, ALL levels of Govt. from the city, to the state, to the national, to the international level & major corporations (Well, America 🇺🇸 itself is classified as a corporation 😑 --- literally, not a nation as most people are unaware of) such as W@l-M@rt, G👀gle, etc. lie to us about what's in our food, water, air, what the music industry is really about etc., why is it so out of the realm of possibilities for people to believe the Bible we have now has not only been altered due to a factor other than some honest mistranslation, BUT MAINLY DUE TO DELIBERATE OMISSIONS & COMMISSIONS 🤔 . . . 🤨?! Clearly, I'm not saying the Bible is useless because of man's tampering, but it must be kept in mind that there has been vital information that has been removed & lies inserted when trying to explain phenomenon --- such as 👽🛸🧜🏻‍♂️🧞🧚 🐉 ---- we can't explain. We must take into account that some of this info may be in the books that were deemed by the Elite throughout the ages "unnecessary" to be explained 🤨. If we haven't even explored 1% of the Earth's oceans 🌊 & scientist say we are able to view an even lesser amount of the entire visible spectrum 🌌, how can any of us --- no matter what letters you have before or after your name; whether you have more degrees than a thermometer 🌡️---- say any fringe paranormal phenomenon can't exist or claim to really know the source? EVERYONE making these claims can't all be lying.

[@Rick2012C]

Evil spirits are the fallen angels in Satan’s original rebellion

[@bobbiburger4015]

Demons come from fallen angels children, the Nephilim dying during the flood

[@bradwolfe2993]

I have seen angels or angelic presence that have appeared as human or shadow that is, fleeting or moving . sometimes as a bright glittery light. one time, 2 very tall brightly lit white light figures with golden blank faces or heads. as yet, never have I personally observed any with wings

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

A lot of the times these angels are mistaken for men in the Bible… a winged man would definitely be an obvious give away. Also the text also speaks of other heavenly creatures with wings and animal parts and some metallic in appearance. But I think that’s another story, it seems there is like another animal kingdom when it comes to heavenly beings

[@yeshuadvargas5552]

Yeah, no. That's nonsense. Who decides the context? When you say you don't need Church tradition, and that you just do exegesis of the text, you just end up with what I like to call "Sola Hermeneutica". My Hermeneutic is the right one. I decide which Biblical passages provide the "context". Its wrong. Period.

[@peggyjackson4925]

You're taking comments out of line, I'm afraid.

[@yeshuadvargas5552]

@@peggyjackson4925 What do you mean?

[@HrvojeSL]

Church Tradition is the precise context of the Biblical texts.

[@yahwehsaviour9083]

Demons are the souls of the nephilm killed in the flood.

[@masterprophet8378]

Respectfully, demons come from forbidden copulation between angels and women in the days of Noah, not from the angels that fell with Lucifer.

[@rome2021]

It also doesnt say demons arent fallen angels with their power mostly revoked because god didnt make demons everything he made and i mean everything is very good the bible says so in the first book

[@yehudahlioness8544]

Well, "There isn't a single verse" or report in the Old Testament (The original scriptures) about jesus either, but people believe the catholic church when they are presented with J.C. through that school of spiritual learning, and have some how crafted him into the story of the Children of Israel so...., anything is possible to misinterpret it seems.

[@MitchellSooner]

I believe ufos are angels, I think we got it all wrong

[@tarrellkurtz502]

Jude 1:6, 2nd Peter 2:4 look those up buddy. And if that doesn't work for you then where did Demons come from huh

[@nerumsargon3573]

Jude 6 7 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. When the angels fall they become unclean spirts knowin as demons

[@devynrowe7492]

The Bible is church tradition. Not something a lot of sola scriptura believers like to hear but the Bible was made canonical by the church as the church came together and deemed these texts are scripture and these are not.

[@BDB2004]

So what are you saying

[@YeshuaKingMessiah]

Demons are the spirits from the giants/nephilim who came from the Watchers

[@genta88able]

Exactly, respect for Dr. MichaeI. in Islam Satan who repelled against God is not angel is from Djin, and Devils or demons are from djin, Djin is a different creation than Humans or angels, Djin are created from Nar-issamoom (Smokeless flame of fire/fire of special nature).

[@SmegheadMomma]

I think we get lost in the naming of things - which is sadly necessary for full understanding. The Djinn Satan already existed when man was created. He was brought as the angels were, when Adam when first created, and told to bend the knee to the human. Satan refused as he saw men as being inferior to him. I believe it was thus, that started the actual fall of angels. Satan, having actually esteemed God and his creation prior to man's arrival allowed pride to stop him from following God. Satan never fell, he was never an angel. The Djinn were here already. Satan representing them and their anger at God's command. It was probably he who talked the Angels into falling. I believe another class of 'bad spirits' was born of the nephilim who died. Which we label as demons. -- But we forget they weren't the first. Folks forget the church went with a purpose to wipe out the Nephilim and their descendents - and so the church hid ALOT of info. Picking and choosing what went into the bible. Meanwhile the Vatican (yes it was the catholic church who put the bible together) - is hiding an entire library the size of a small town with info they refuse to share. ... It's worth reading the books that have escaped this place .. Might open your mind to the truths that even the church decided to hide. Lmao.. even today they hide the truth and we have no idea what was really said at Fatima because though God commanded it be released, the Popes refused. Folks really oughtta open their minds. The condensed version the bible feeds us leaves much out.

[@wanitas190]

Gen 6, must read books ,The Genesis 6 Conspiracy 1&2 by Gary Wayne❤

[@maryfrancisoconnor2601]

In the beginning, God created everything good because God, in His holiness, cannot and would not create something sinful. Satan, who was once the angel Lucifer, rebelled against God and fell from heaven (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28), and one third of the angelic host joined his insurrection against HOLY GOD (Revelation 12:3-4,9). There is no doubt these fallen angels are now known as the demons!

[@OrthodoxCanonFodder]

Not from church tradition, but from his opinion lol

[@YuckFou502]

Doesn't have to be explicitly said to be implicitly reasonable. Just has to not contradict the Bible, at least! Disembodied spirits of the fallen angels' offspring makes more sense in every way.

[@bradleyperry1735]

This is what happens when one wants to CONSTRUCT a “biblical theology.” The Church precedes the Bible, and is the pillar and ground of Truth. Sola scriptura is not a biblical position itself. Heiser is starting from a faulty premise.

[@jgiaq]

Michael Heiser: "...theres not a single verse that says that!!1!" Also Michael Heiser: "Anyways demons are disembodied Nephilim spirits. This goes against church tradition and my Scripture verse is trust me bro"

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

“Trust me bro”. Are you kidding me? This is a very plausible explanation. Angels don’t possess people, they are separate creature themselves. They mated with women, so angels can become physical, the women gave birth to the perverted seed. God’s flood came and destroyed these souls, so where do their spirits go? It is plausible that they remain on earth. Wanting to possess people in order to feel the pleasures of the soul again. Angels are of higher, they don’t seek to inhabit people, they would limit themselves, they take power over regions influence and seemingly weather. The angels that fell were kept in everlasting chains that mated with women. And the sons of God that remained God gave them to rule other parts of the world. They failed, and God brings His heavenly Kingdom to rule all people of all nations again through King Jesus. This is all too plausible and this is my worldview since it is biblical and does make sense. It gives God more glory

[@jgiaq]

@@criminaltotheworld3154 That may be all well and good. My point was that Heiser holds other teachers of Scripture to standards he often can't meet himself in order to sound edgy and unique. The standard, in this case, was him saying we shouldn't believe that demons are different from Nephilim because "no verse in Scripture says that." My point was that his view ALSO has no Scripture to back it up. You didn't provide any either, because there is no Scripture to prove that view. I didn't say it had no philosophical grounding or there was no other reason to believe it, just that Heiser presents a hypocritical standard here.

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

@@jgiaq you gotta learn how to read between the lines in scripture, the Godhead is not directly quoted in scripture, you actually have to read between the lines and meditate on the words and study in order to get these philosophies. I don’t think Heiser is intentionally trying to sound edgy or shocking, it is just that, it is shocking the preconceived worldviews that we hold because of tradition. It becomes shocking when our worldviews are challenged.

[@paididoy]

You know more than the church fathers?😅😂😢😮

[@smittycity42]

Boring

[@ramuelingibraltar802]

The church came before the Bible. The Catholic Church is the authority that put the books of the Bible together. This guy is off.

[@CaesarConsuloProVita]

The Church…is The Pillar of Authority. The Church (established by Christ) authoritatively teaches what Scripture means. The Church existed before the New Testament as written. Demons are fallen angels. I reject the heresy of Sola Scriptura. I reject this guy’s false teaching. Protestantism is a heresy.

[@IminHIGHpursuitofthelivingGod]

I always said that to those who believe. I told them that the Bible never teaches that the fallen angels are demons. People think when they fell to earth they were transformed into demons and thats not truth. It's says in revelation they were angels who fought other angels. Jude says angels are locked up in chains until judgement day. So how are they demons if they are locked up. Demons are disembodied spirits you can't physically chain a spirit. But you can physically chain a body.

[@MattisWell.20]

Angels aren’t physical either, lol. They exist in the heavenly realms - which are immaterial realities beyond our perception - the place of abstract principles and meaning (see Matthieu Pageau’s book “The Language of Creation”). The way people often understand the supernatural is essentially materialistic.

[@IminHIGHpursuitofthelivingGod]

@@MattisWell.20 when they are in their realm they are spirit beings but when they come to our realm ( natural) for a specific reason then they can become physical.

[@IminHIGHpursuitofthelivingGod]

Who becomes physical when they enter our physical realm?

[@Rick2012C]

Sophisticated biblical ignorance at it’s best

[@Exposure_Ministries_329]

Demons are the disembodied spirits of The Nepiliam from Genesis

[@adamkrejci5469]

Heretics gonna heretic. Sola scriptura is cringe.

[@sigmanocopyrightmusic8737]

subtly promoting false Theology

[@stephenbellow6777]

Wow such wisdom 😂 so what are they then? Sounds like some newly thought up bullcrap by someone trying to have a new view on a settled topic

[@gateway6827]

Shame on Heiser for rejecting Apostolic knowledge

[@mebsteve47]

I’m sure you can hear the arrogance of this man. His demeanor seems humble but he displays a contempt for many pastors, scholars and men of God in many of his videos. He was the one in error with his ‘new’ knowledge he called ‘old’ knowledge as if he found it because he reads more and was more open minded and only stuck with the ‘text’. However, he used a lot of outside biblical text to support his understanding.

[@peggyjackson4925]

That's a gross misrepresentation of Dr Heiser. He is a well respected biblical scholar all his life. His contributions to the gospel are fantastic. Have you actually read any of his work or are you going by a couple minute snippit on YT. We have to have a teachable spirit or we never learn and grow and become wiser than what we once we're. I'm interested to know what he's so wrong about....

[@mebsteve47]

I know a lot of ‘well respected scholars that are in error. He teaches, as his opinion, the study of prophecy is a waist of time. If that were the case, then Isreal would’ve never looked for or recognize their savior.. In his own words, he says that he was introduced to a new perspective from an individual that told him to read a verse in psalms and the book of Enoch. In his own words, he said this has admittedly changed his view of scriptures from the way he was taught. This new view is that God had a ‘God council’ in heaven. Yes, read his material yourself. He confesses that outside biblical text transformed his understanding of scriptures. It’s clear there are no other Gods . God himself gave men things to worship and to be controlled by that He mocked as ‘gods’. But God was clear they are not really gods. He gave men demons, stars, and other celestial things to be lead by, including the sun and moon. He gave them over to worship food, sex, people, animals, riches and mammon. No of which are God’s. But they are mocked as ‘gods’. Stephen speaking about Isreal… Acts 7: 41And they made a calf in those days, offered sacrifices to the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. 42Then God turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the Prophets: Heiser said once he saw what he saw, he couldn’t unsee it and it saturated his whole understanding and interpretation of scriptures. Follow him if you want but you’ve been warned.

[@Moonpie5000]

Demons are formed through human trauma, when a human is manipulated by a fallen angel, they " the humans" create demons. The fallen angels cannot create only humans and God can create.

[@drebin178]

Thats wrong. Humans dont create demons after experiencing a trauma. Demons are real beings, spirits to be exact. They were begotten by fallen angels. It literally says in the bible

[@javiermorales4228]

I really don't think that fallen angels would want to inhabit a human. They think of themselves as Gods and would be belittled if they ever entered a human. It has to be the disembodied spirits of their offspring that are the demons. It says clearly that they walk through dry places in the Bible. Why would angels walk around anywhere? It's not that they can't, possess someone, it just seems more like they wouldn't. They think of themselves so much more godly than humans and would probably think that possessing a human is below them. Just my opinion.

[@25dollarbill24]

_"Just my opinion."_ Well, it's not _just_ your opinion; it's _also_ false, and extra-Biblical. _"They think of themselves so much more godly than humans"_ Interesting. If that's true, it's interesting to note that Bible-despiser Heiser and the "fallen angels married women" cultists are more than happy to asininely call fallen angels "sons of God", and to claim that the Bible calls fallen angels "sons of God". If you don't think fallen angels are godly, then why would you go about saying the Bible calls them "sons of God"? And, if Moses were referring to fallen angels in Genesis 6, why would he choose to NOT use the preeminently apt term "nephilim" (literally "fallen ones") to refer to them, and instead, asininely choose to use the totally inapt term "sons of God" to refer to them?

[@nfjbt]

RIP Dr. Heiser. We miss you and love you and thank you for all of your beautiful work to help us along our way ❤

[@kronkial]

When he passed away it felt like i lost a friend

[@christopherwolford3483]

But isn't the Bible contextualized by church tradition?

[@Skullnaught]

exactly

[@christopherwolford3483]

@YAJUN YUAN then what is the point of the interpretation? Canon was decided on based on what was important to the early church and gave significance through the church mysteries

[@christopherwolford3483]

@YAJUN YUAN That is a different phrase than what I've learned. Could you explain a bit on your "rule of faith"? Is that catholic catechism teaching or something else?

[@ApostolicEchoes]

@YAJUN YUAN yet you follow fundamental belief 18 in SDA where a woman’s teachings are authoritative. Yet SDA claim to be Sola Scriptura while following the writings of Ellen White (she has written more than the Bible has in it) a known easily proven false prophetess.

[@ApostolicEchoes]

@YAJUN YUAN if I prove she’s a heretic will you publicly renounce SDA and Ellen White and become a Christian? Yes or no? Or will you cling to a modern heresy led by a woman? I Studied SDA for years and have all her writings and SDA sources, ready anytime you wanna leave that heresy from hell.

[@raysantiago3750]

Dr. Michael Heiser, he explained the Bible with clarity. True Man of God, We will truly miss him. ☝️😎 We will see him heaven. ❤️✝️🛐👑🏖️🏝️🏊🌊 Paradise.

[@slocole1005]

To be fair it is all constructed from the Bible materially. The ideas of formal and material sufficiency differ between Protestant and apostolic (Orthodox and Catholic) churches. For example, we see a dive into this topic by Saint Thomas Aquinas‘s commentary on Lombard’s Sentences. In the commentary he uses biblical exegesis and church fathers in unison to come to this conclusion. To say it’s not biblical is only if you are coming at it from the formal sufficiency point of view, so I would say it’s fair to say it doesn’t have enough evidence scripturally to be believed in the Protestant world but that seems unfair to say for Catholics and Orthodox.

[@BornAgainRN]

And I would even argue that you can drive that demons are fallen angels, since demons are described in the Bible, in both the old and the New Testament. if they are not fallen angels, then where did they come from? They are not disembodied humans spirits that have died, because scripture does not allow for that. This is why we should not base our theology on people, including this gentleman, because they are subject to error and being flawed themselves.

[@BloodRedLFC]

@@BornAgainRN Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).

[@idahoduckhunter]

@@BornAgainRN Dr Heiser is making the case that they’re the disembodied nephilim spirits from gen 6, hybrids half human half angel abominations before God. They were destroyed in the flood and don’t show up until after the flood so this matches the biblical text. Their soul isn’t fully human so they don’t go where humans go when they die they’re stuck here. They also desire embodiment again which is why they possess humans and begged Jesus to even be put into pigs.

[@peggyjackson4925]

He's not saying they're not fallen angels. This flip is too short for a better explanation..but he simply posits when it happened.. a bit difference.

[@anon2867]

church tradition is where the texts come from

[@justchilling704]

Not exactly, that depends on how you define some things. Regardless Heiser’s point in context was correct.

[@justchilling704]

@@dashriprock5720 Well said.

[@provenio]

Not really

[@D.W.C935]

​@@provenioYes really.

[@dustinneely]

Dr. Heiser just passed. Lord have mercy upon his soul. 🙏

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

If he's spouting contrascriptural noise like this and leading people away from Christ, then pray he repented before he went. This video is the sort of thing that prepares a man to hear, "Truly I say to you, I never knew you."

[@oscarcat1231]

@@joshuakarr-BibleManI believe demons are fallen angels, even partly perhaps partly nephilin. Does it really matter? I do think he’s wrong though

[@Michael-fx1gs]

@@joshuakarr-BibleMan he said nothing unscriptural. Why would your salvation depend upon his beliefs about this particular doctrine??

[@peggyjackson4925]

Absolutely. He backs everything up.he says by scripture. And regardless if he may be wrong about this point, how would that jeopardize his soul?? That's ludicrous for christians to even say such things....he was a man of great insight and made astounding contributions for our knowledge and wisdom. Rest in peace Dr. Heiser

[@peggyjackson4925]

How does this lead anyone away from Christ? Our views about doctrine sometimes change, as we have more wisdom and knowledge. There are those God has entrusted truths that we may have misses before. I've not read one thing from him that would lead anyone away from Christ and such a shame for you to say so!!

[@baronreed8131]

Many of the replies are TOTALLY ignorant and will not come close to withstanding biblical scholastic peer review. Dr. Heiser is right on track!

[@peggyjackson4925]

I agree 100% this man was gifted by God! His years or study are commendable! He would rise in the am and read his bible for 6 hrs daily! I've listened to much of his work and never found anything unscriptural whatsoever. Some of these comments here are scary in their attitude about his teachings. Even to call him a heretic and leading ppl from Christ!! Makes me sad ppl do this. We must have a teachable spirit and realize that more knowledge comes as we go thru our journey, as the bible says that knowledge will cover the face of the earth.

[@baronreed8131]

@@peggyjackson4925 I am in total agreement with you Peggy. The primary foundation for the ignorant comments are prideful religious egos. I wish I was half the servant of Christ that Dr. Heiser was. In Christ, Baron T.

[@sandrahayes8021]

I was looking at that in aw

[@John-Rambo81]

Jude 6 says God removed the Angels from their position.

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

@@John-Rambo81where does Jude get this information from? Genesis 6 seems most likely, the sons of God came down and perverted the land by being intimate with women. Giving birth to these giants or nephilim. Then the flood came, it seemed God dealt with these particular angels around the same time. The flood killed all living creature including nephilim. The spirits of these nephilim where did they go? Not the grave, not heaven, it seems their spirits roamed the earth seeking to dwell in man again, thus demon possession? Makes sense to me

[@donquixote8462]

Respectfully, this is why Heiser is not nearly as knowledgeable or astute as people think. Sorry, this is a horrible take and teaching all around. Firstly, Protestant presupposition that we cannot use tradition to understand theology (horrible teaching since Protestants still rely on tons of Church tradition for their understanding, such as the Trinity, the Divinity of Christ, who authored which books of the Bible, and oh yeah, the cannon of scripture itself) and it is implied in Genesis 1. God made light (angelic beings) and saw that it was good and seperated the light from the dark) the dark is the only thing mentioned in the creation account that's not mentioned as being good. There are obvious other passages such as 1 Corinthians where Paul tells us that even the devil masqueraded as an angel of light. Also you have passages like Revelation 12 about the devil being CAST DOWN AND the passage in Isaiah 14 which refers to the fall of Lucifer from among the heavenly bodies. Sorry dude. Terrible teaching.

[@TheJMan31]

You’re not wrong about Protestants using tradition, it’s unavoidable. BUT you are dead wrong when you insinuate that the doctrine of the Trinity and Divinity of Christ are based in tradition. The Biblical text is LOADED with this theology from start to finish. The first century Christians saw this and they didn’t have church tradition yet did they? Where did they get it? Oh that’s right, the Bible.

[@Carmen-us1ew]

Are you saying that Satan and Lucifer are two different entities? Just curious.

[@krimson4980]

Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

[@LettiesLife]

But there isn’t a single verse in the Bible that doesn’t say demons are fallen angels either? So what’s your Biblical evidence for them not being the fallen angels???

[@justchilling704]

That’s not exactly true. The Bible never uses the term demon for the demons come after the nephilim. In the original meaning of daemon (Greek) you could use demon for fallen Elohim.

[@southtexasdeath]

Deuteronomy 32:8

[@rubenmartinez4346]

Sola scriptura is not biblical.

[@jholyroller6048]

Its all biblical idiot

[@michawill6599]

He's talking about misreading of scripture, not scripture only

[@jonasopmeer]

It’s more of an inherent assumption based on the ontological category it exists within.

[@KnightFel]

Neither is purgatory nor Mary being co-redemptrix and queen of the universe.

[@justchilling704]

Sola Scriptura is not “Bible alone” and it can be argued from biblical teachings sure the term isn’t but neither is Trinity yet the doctrine is true nonetheless.

[@ballinchuck289]

I thought that Angela were spirit bodies not physical bodies. So then how can a spirit body impregnate a woman?

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

Angels definitely don’t seem to be strictly spirit body. God makes angels into spirits as the text says, but then also we physically can feed angels and they consume physical food. They physically touch, so that means angels are not strictly spirit, that is why angels can be physical men. So it is not far fetched that angels can interact with women. That is why I think that God made it an example to punish the angels that did mate with women, so it doesn’t happen again.

[@LordMazdamundi]

Demon's ARE fallen angels

[@BloodRedLFC]

Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

@BloodRedLFC No, it's like you haven't even read the Bible. The Nephilim were giants of men because of their demonic fathers, yes. If their ghosts became demons though, there would be a new demon created every time a giant dies. Demons are the fallen angels, like Satan, Chemosh, Baal Peor, Molech, and the rest. We aren't supposed to say their names, and so I may face trouble for telling you who they are. Since I'm not lifting them up, but only identifying them, I know God will still protect me from the repercussions. Anyway, your comment makes nosense and clearly demonstrates a need to actually study the Scriptures.

[@jholyroller6048]

Yes this man taught gnosticism fallen angels are demons NEPHILIM are human giants Goliath was human I'm even a giant why Bible says Giants in those days as ther will be giants in the days of man Bible was talking about ppl like me mighty men Bible don't say mighty angels 😂 fallen angels are demons NEPHILIM were humans with big size an strength is all Seth's bloodline an Cain's bloodline mixed creating NEPHILIM angels are spirits they can't have sex no organs to do so common sense

[@jholyroller6048]

​@@BloodRedLFC lies lies that's gnosticism not Gospel of Jesus Christ NEPHILIM are humans GOLIATH was human Angels can't breed ther spirits 😂no penis sorry ther spirits if this was the case why don't demons have sex with humans now an make hybrids because it never happened an can't sad to see ppl deceived by Satan's LIES NEPHILIM are mighty men not mighty angels see Bible says mighty men the word men is the key men means men

[@FreemanBBFQ]

@@BloodRedLFC hey, I'm researching this stuff and I was wondering if Jubilees/Jasher/Enoch talk about nephilim still being on Earth as spirits?

[@betrion7]

I found sound effects rather tacky and distracting.

[@CRoadwarrior]

The problem is, Heiser himself is guilty of not doing proper exegesis of Scripture. If demons are not fallen angels, then what are they?

[@snafuagain5268]

🤔So where do demons come from⁉️Dr. Michael Heiser’s book “What does God want?”, answers that and many more questions, plus he puts in all in order with Chapter & Verse‼️That book helped me soooo much putting creation in its real timeline‼️Lots of light bulb moments for me‼️👏👏💯🙏🇺🇸👍

[@rebn8346]

Tell that to an exorcist who deals with damned angels and souls.

[@ransome51]

Complete myth and fantasy.

[@nerumsargon3573]

It is written in the new testment. Jude 6 7 1 Peter.3 19-20. They became unclean spirit demons when they fall from heaven. You should read it.

[@HaleStorm49]

Was this an April fool's joke?

[@SonicVibe]

there will be many false prophets in the last days This is a clear example; the bible clearly states fallen angels are a forum of demons who follow satan who is also a fallen angel are we going to argue he is not a demon ?the difference between a fallen angel and demons is a physical body not like ours but the other demons lower level need to inhabit a body unlike fallen angels .

[@criminaltotheworld3154]

I just read the comments and see people do not even study the text, they just blurt out information they heard rather than study for themselves. Cmon guys it says to be competent in the scriptures. And is there an excuse now? With bibles which were once a rarity to have and now everyone and their grandma has these sacred texts to themselves. Heiser dedicated his life to be a Bible nerd, and I am a nerd myself, this is the HOLY BIBLE guys. Meditate on it day and night, study to show yourself approved, be a master at it. Or just be humble and don’t talk down on those that put the time and effort to study it.

[@Another_Look]

Those sound effects are irritating and distracting.

[@DavidBrown-zs1ic]

When you read in the book of Jeremiah chapter 4 verse 23 to 27 he talks about the world and civilization that was and then was destroyed everything was destroyed no man no bird no animal I kind of believe that was eons of go and that's probably when the fall took place I think Genesis 1:1 is the creation of the universe Genesis 1:2 and all through the creation versus is a restoration of the earth that was void and without form because of the Fall that took place in Jeremiah chapter 4 verse 23:27 demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim the Nephilim or The Offspring of the Fallen Angels with human women Genesis 6

[@vspec17]

Rest in peace, Michael. A righteous scholar among men.

[@parrypapp5065]

Yes they are. Um what do you think lucifer was and now is. Clearly this guy has no idea what he is talking about demons are fallen angels. Can’t change fact

[@St.Raphael...]

The Catholic Orthodox Saints interpret-ate Holy Scripture.

[@bigbearn1383]

I'll stick to Catholic interpretation. Not everything is in the Bible. We needed extra biblical sources to decide in the canon of scripture.

[@johnmichalski5981]

Wrong. Jewish and Christian Tradition doesn't come from the Bible. The Bible comes from Jewish and Christian Tradition. The Tradition is bigger, more substantial, and more authoritative than the Bible alone. And demons most definitely are fallen angels.

[@NC-bm3uy]

Because its in the book of Enoch from the oldest Christian bible in the world in Ethiopia. That's why

[@DaLeSy.]

Why am I not surprised. I always questioned that. And now I find out it's not even in the bible - they just made it up apparently.

[@optimoprimo132]

RIP- He now knows the truth.

[@nicolasmaximus2286]

Yes, now he knows it was a huge 99-% bs!!!!

[@John-Rambo81]

Hes wrong… Jude 6

[@ScottFrye000111222]

Never trust this guy. 35 years a believer and I'm just seeing him pop up in the last year???

[@barbwellman6686]

"There is no verse in the Bible that says, “A third of the angels fell from heaven.” The idea that, when Satan rebelled against God, one third of the angels went with him comes from certain other verses that, when put together, suggest that’s what happened. On the sixth day of creation, God declared everything to be “very good” (Genesis 1:31). We assume the “everything” includes angels. Sometime after that, Satan rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Jesus witnessed the event: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18)-an event that the Lord uses to explain the exorcisms performed by the 72 (verse 17). Another passage that also seems to describe the fall of Satan from heaven is Isaiah 14:12-15. The context is primarily about a human king, as judgment is pronounced against Babylon. The poetic language used by Isaiah is so grand, however, that many scholars have concluded that there is more to the passage. References to “the whole earth” (Isaiah 14:7), the king’s “fall from heaven” (verse 12), his desire to exalt himself “above the stars” (verse 13), and the symbolic name Lucifer or Light-bringer (verse 12) are all expressions of hyperbolic greatness. If the intended subject is only the human king of Babylon, then everything is figurative (and greatly exaggerated); however, if there is a secondary spiritual character in view, then the descriptions could be quite literal. God is pronouncing judgment on both “kings of Babylon”-the human king and the spiritual potentate who empowers him (Babylon being a symbol of rebellion from Genesis to Revelation). The wonderment of Isaiah 14:12 (“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”) could indeed have a dual interpretation. Further, the book of the Revelation describes “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1). This “star” is given a key to the bottomless pit and proceeds to release a horde of tormenting “locusts” (Revelation 9:2-11). While Revelation 9:1 is not a clear reference to Satan, it could be: the fact that the “star” that fell from heaven has a key (authority) is no problem, especially since he uses the key to unleash terror upon the earth. So, the Bible explicitly and implicitly teaches that Satan fell from his position in heaven. But how do we know that one third of the angels also fell with him? The passage that best supports the idea that Satan took one third of the angels with him in rebellion is Revelation 12:3-4. John sees a sign in heaven: “An enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.” John then relates that the dragon was hurled down to the earth and positively identifies it as “that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray” (Revelation 12:9). The dragon is not thrown to earth alone, however: “His angels were cast out with him” (verse 9). The angels that are ejected from heaven with Satan we associate with the “third of the stars” that the dragon’s tail swept from heaven to earth in verse 4. If the “stars” of Revelation 12:4 are indeed a symbolic reference to Satan’s “angels” in verse 9, then what we have is a reference to the fall of a portion of the angels (the heavenly hosts) who followed Satan in his rebellion. Two thirds of the angels remained loyal to God and are called the “holy angels” in Scripture (e.g., Mark 8:38); one third of the original angels joined Satan and are called “unclean spirits” or “demons” today (e.g., Mark 9:25)."

[@Rick2012C]

This narrative is just a down right false narrative with bold anti scriptural statements that I can easily correct through Scriptures. Why would a man boldly contradict the plain that even Jesus confirmed?

[@Rick2012C]

The line of Seth appointed down through Noah called the sons of God because Adam was son of God Ben Elohim

[@robertszymanski717]

Angels who turned away from God are cast out of heaven..therefore they fall towards earth to make our lives miserable.....

[@Brotherrichrivas]

Demons are not the Fallen, they are the Offspring of them!!! You Need to read the Book Of Enoch.. I pray the LORD Reveals these things to you...But Honestly what's the point of looking for the Fallen or Demons?? We're supposed to keep our eyes on ✝️The LORD JESUS CHRIST THE KING OF KINGS & LORD OF LORDS!!🙌🏽

[@YesuAiNimen]

the clickity click mouse sound is VERY annoying