Demonstrating a "Thermostart" Intake Manifold Pre-Heater

[@onenewworldmonkey]

Great job all way around. You went the extra mile and helped me way more than you know. I counted to 13 seconds. I just got a Ford 340 from my brother who never ran it and it sat for 5 years with him and 10 from the guy before. The guy before put a different key switch in it and I didn't realize it. Originally it had a 5 position key switch but was replaced with a 4. The manual says: 3. Turn the starter key clockwise to the "HEAT" position and hold for 30 seconds. 4. Start the engine by turning the key further clockwise to the "HEAT-START" position. 5. If the engine fails to start after 25 seconds of cranking place the key in the "HEAT" position for an additional 15 Seconds. WOW. I couldn't imagine 25 seconds of constant cranking..lol I thought I'd add a quick education that cost me alot but hopefully it will help someone. I used ether (just a quick touch) to start a ford 4000 a couple decades ago. Anyhow, after more and more ether I couldn't get it to start. Long story short, after tons of money and effort, I discovered the ether cleaned the cylinder walls and caused it to not have enough compression. I squirted a little oil through a tube into each cylinder and it fired right up.

[@victordkv8525]

After 50 years of reading and learning everything about things automotive I learned something new from video. Thanks. Though I do remember a freind of mine burning newspapers to heat up the fuel lines to get his long haul truck started in the seventies. (I think that's illegal now...)

[@marklloyd4536]

Many thanks, it's presently -14c here, this is getting ordered tomorrow for my David Brown.

[@Jamesjghome]

Excellent overview and simple explanation. Love the mock up, I live in north Michigan and promise to throw either away. This is a game change gives Massey 165 hope . Thanks

[@deangilmer8788]

Excellent description and display buddy👍

[@ikonseesmrno7300]

Oh! That's what makes those Perkins engines start so nice. Might have to figure out how to cobble one on to my 560 & 2444. Thanks for the post. Regards!

[@FarmallDoctor]

Your 560 and 444 have glow plugs with indirect injection, so this heater wouldn't really help that design.... unless you are in the deep arctic! haha New glow plugs are cheap and easy to change. My 560 Diesel starts like a champ at any temp. I have two 12v batteries in parallel which helps. Thanks!

[@ikonseesmrno7300]

@@FarmallDoctor I was wondering if that would work with an IDI engine. Guess I'll stick to an upgrade to Navistar glow plugs & a second battery on the 560. Would have to be creative with a second battery on the 2444. Not sure if the wells in the fenders will take a decent sized 12v. The loader, ROPS & trencher take up a lot of real estate that could be used for a battery tray. As well as the battery tray that's already installed by the previous owner. That one is in front of the clutch pedal & was not designed by someone who wore size 13 shoes. Have to stand & use my tip toe to push the pedal down all the way to disengage the PTO. Then if I'm half standing, there's no reaching the PTO lever. 😂

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@ikonseesmrno7300 One good Group 31 battery should be plenty for the little 4 cylinder.

[@donvoll2580]

@@FarmallDoctor Good day I talk to Mennonite mechanic , told him about this a few yrs. ago, I think Nuffield tractor. he said be careful , valves don't shut off & diesel leaks in cyl. Idea is really good. Thanks

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@donvoll2580 Hi Don. I saw one stick open 25 years ago, but it was the only one. They are reasonably priced, so I just automatically buy a new one. they seem like good quality, and overnight shipping from my supplier in Eastern Ontario.

[@bluegrasssportsmanFarms]

Had an issue with a thermostart on a 6610 new holland that would continuously leak fuel into the manifold and get into the cylinders and thin the oil out, it shorted the key switch out and had some smoked wires, new key switch and new thermostart back up and running!

[@thecoursinfamily]

Bought a used tafe 25di and couldn’t figure out why a fuel line went to the intake but this has cleared things up for me. Thanks for taking the time to put this video together. It’s near impossible to find any info on this thing so looking at Massey to get me close. Now I have to figure out how to check oil in injection pump as there is a sticker that states to check every 50hr.

[@FarmallDoctor]

If it is a Simms inline injection pump, there is a small drain at the bottom, a check level plug half way up the side, and a large fill cap at the top front.

[@thecoursinfamily]

@@FarmallDoctor thanks for the reply. figured out it’s a mico by Bosch but tags are kinda beat up so may try calling India to help identify if they keep records on their stuff.

[@lectro88]

Thanks for showing. I stopped by because I have a 06 JD4720 that is claimed to have an intake heater.(or box heater) not EVER had any trouble starting, but I wanted to poke around and see whats out there. I looked around under the hood today and followed the path from the filter and the turbo and found nothing that indicated electrical or fuel going to this "intake heater" They don't design the newer stuff to be easily recognizable, but I did not dig too hard the day before Thanksgiving. Also the front end loader did not help, easily removable but not that determined 'today' Its starting to get just chilly but this is a new unit to me, just bought this year and trying to learn the ropes early before I get tangled up.... *That's a neat simple setup that would no question aid in extreme cold starting conditions.* also my tractor is so new and so very low hours it will most likely be a Long Time to be hard to start. thanks again for video.

[@FarmallDoctor]

Thanks! I think that your unit is new enough, that if equipped, it will be an electric intake heater. I have seen them on the larger models like a 6310, etc.

[@lectro88]

Thanks for the reply. The manual says it has intake heater,. Others that own,. claim they know, say the manual is "Wrong" It's a ghost heater(that doesn't exist) I can say I have not found it yet. But again my search was a lick and a promise,. or 1/2 of an attempt. Thanks again.@@FarmallDoctor

[@paularmstrong4928]

Thank-you I have a Massey 148 has one, not sure if working , shall do some investigating. took a while to find this info :)

[@davecoate9995]

Thank you, most helpful.

[@TheUltimate65]

I have this glowplug type om my ihi 633 , its the same from MF , and a heater fore the intakeair , connething with a reley a dual system with another words

[@williamgarrow9729]

Hi my name is Billy I got a question on the intake manifold heater can you just hook up to a toggle switch I would prefer trying to use the intake manifold heater over a block heater the tractor I have had a block heater and it ended up cracking number two cylinder right where the heater plug goes so I'm not putting one back in it any information would be helpful thanks

[@FarmallDoctor]

I prefer a button switch because it is less likely to be left on or turned on accidentally.

[@williamgarrow9729]

Thanks

[@Jamesjghome]

Welch plug is great place for block heater you have to baby monitor put. On a timer. Thanks from north Michigan

[@aaaaa-md2th]

Very neat. I could use one of those on my 686!

[@0044512]

Nice video thanks.

[@ormargararsson9890]

Thanks for your video 👍

[@donvoll2580]

Good day Farmal The other day watch video, fellow took rag pour gas on it & held over intake Turn over tractor & start ed.. I don't know if that is better. Thanks

[@FarmallDoctor]

I have heard of that working on some engines! Surely not as convenient as this system, but great to keep in mind for the certain instances that an engine need a bit of help.

[@donvoll2580]

@@FarmallDoctor When dad was getting retirement house brick, JD 4020, cold morning They took rag pour diesel on & lit it. Same idea It did start Ths

[@hemiram05]

We have a Same Explorer that has a thermostart. The power for it comes from a coiled resistor pack that is mounted by the engine under the hood. Can you tell me the purpose of that and why it needs it? Thanks

[@FarmallDoctor]

Usually a resistor coil was used with glow plugs or a heater that was just an electric coil. I do not recall ever seeing a resistor used with a thermostart.

[@hemiram05]

@@FarmallDoctorThank you for replying. It most definitely has a thermostart and not glow plugs. I’m just very curious as to the purpose of the resistor assembly. The coils get very hot and put off a little smoke sometimes if you haven’t used it for a while. It has a heat shield around it so it IS designed to get hot. I’m just confused why it needs it because all the other thermostarts on other tractors I’ve seen are just wired directly to the key.

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@hemiram05 Unless it is not a genuine Lucas and was designed to be run on a lower voltage, or perhaps they thought that it may last longer on a lower voltage. Interesting indeed! If I find any info on that I will let you know! Cheers!

[@bluegrasssportsmanFarms]

Do you know what threads the fuel line is that threads into the thermostart?

[@FarmallDoctor]

It is a standard size nut and compression sleeve for 3/16 OD line.

[@WikWak]

I want to use this to start a diesel heater I'm making. Do you think it would survive inside the combustion chamber?

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@WikWak i don't think so. You might be best to use a burner and starter from an old oil furnace or portable heater.

[@AntonioPetrarca-r5f]

Hi I have a question I have a marine Perkins 4-108 and would like your help on how to setup the top Pressure screw on the injection pump Thanks in advance

[@FarmallDoctor]

Do you have a photo of your injection pump? You can send it to [e-mail]

[@nigelwreford5215]

Hi, I'm on with this set up on my ford 4000 rewire, does the wire to the heat coil require a relay like a glow plug? Any information from the heat on , on the ignition switch, forwards would be greatly appreciated.

[@FarmallDoctor]

No, a relay is not required. Power goes from a large spade terminal on the key switch directly to the heater. If your tractor didn't originally have it, a simple heavy duty push button switch will do.

[@michiganhay7844]

So my old one I had the impression it wasn’t working it was drawing amps you could see from the meter but I wasn’t getting the ignition so I ordered a new one and that one keeps blowing fuses. I bench test, the old, one it heated up right away and it burned the wire that I had hooked to it. I had it clamped to a ground battery cable, so I’m really confused what is the ohms of resistance they’re supposed to be in that plug do you know? The reason why I asked about the ohms is I’m wondering if both units the old one and the new one is shorted out I tested them and they only had one and a half to 2.5 ohms of resistance.

[@FarmallDoctor]

I just measured a brand new one and it is zero ohms.

[@michiganhay7844]

@@FarmallDoctor OK, thanks for the reply. My mechanic was thinking it should have a high amount of ohms. He was thinking if it had a very low amount of resistance than that meant it was shorting out and had a bad ground. Thank you so much for getting back with me and for the educational video.

[@timcope3115]

I have installed a couple of these and they work great my issue has been identifying the thread on the glow plug itself. I can't figure out for the life of me what exactly it is.

[@FarmallDoctor]

7/8" UNF

[@timcope3115]

@@FarmallDoctor Thank you.

[@adamg895]

I’m about to dive into this type of system on a Same Explorer II and before I start probing and testing I’d like to know what I’m dealing with. Mainly I was wondering how fuel is supplied to it. Fuel for the engine is drawn out the top of the tank so it’s not gravity fed. I see what looks to be a solenoid on the fuel line right before the heater valve but I’m thinking it may be a tiny pump. Have you ever ran into one like that? Thanks for your help

[@FarmallDoctor]

Yes, those small electric fuel pumps are very common. They are usually in stock at auto parts suppliers.

[@sacraments666]

Where can I buy a plug like that ? Thanks, nice video!

[@FarmallDoctor]

Massey Ferguson (AGCO) sells them under part#893501M91, but I buy them and the reservoir from Sparex. ca.sparex.com/heater-plug-40626.html?match=number&keyed=40626

[@sacraments666]

@@FarmallDoctor Thank you so much, keep up the good work.

[@swblack1216]

I would like to know how to install the Thermo start on my Ford 4500 3 cylinder diesel

[@JohnSmith-uz8bb]

You will need to drill and tap a hole into the inlet manifold so that you can screw the thermostart into it????

[@valentasd8217]

Hello, informative video! Can you axplain how the fuel stops leaking. Ther is valve or what? Thanks.

[@FarmallDoctor]

Yes, there is a small valve inside which is opened by the heat of the coil.

[@Jamesjghome]

How often do you think they will last in north Michigan? Obviously related to use. Will it go bad during off season non usage.

[@FarmallDoctor]

They were regular equipment on many MF, Ford, and David Brown tractors. Most of them still work after all these years. If you use good fuel and use a good fuel treatment they should last indefinitely. The only problem that could be possible is having one gum up from old fuel.

[@Jamesjghome]

@@FarmallDoctor I am going to check fuel flow and power/ volts to keyed switch. I suspect if it’s working I can take my infrared heat gun and notice a difference does it stay on until you deactivate starter switch

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@Jamesjghome the key switches usually had a position to the left or to the right. More often to the right (clockwise) mid-way to the crank position where the heater plug was energized. The heat circuit would stay powered during crank. On tractors that didn't have the option, i like to install a seperate push button switch.

[@Jamesjghome]

@@FarmallDoctor understand, however massey was an outsider buggey and wire switches lights etc pay the price. I’ll check switch maybe clean bang pound and get lucky

[@shanesilver2895]

I have a 2640 mf I had one in for over a year it qiut working. So replaced with a new one it lasted a week. So replaced with another and it qiut working checked ohms resistance the Last one still has resistance other 2 do not. There is adequate fuel to it and 12.44v am I getting bunk fuel heaters or something else cuasing the issue

[@FarmallDoctor]

I do know that there is a big difference in price between OEM and aftermarket.. But I'm not convinced that it reflects on the quality.

[@panchovillaz8004]

Thanks gracias I have forklifts v80e have perking engine is hard to star I need buy this good 👍

[@magner3958]

I would like on my Mercedes (car) where glow plugs are expensive or impossible to replace!

[@rbrown3164]

Would this work on a Perkins 4-108?

[@FarmallDoctor]

As long as you have the large plug in the intake manifold, it should work well.

[@barrybowman6929]

I am about to wire one up what wied sise and fuse do i need

[@FarmallDoctor]

Use 12 gauge wire and a 30A fuse.

[@brandonlykins9245]

what size is the fitting that threads onto the end of the thermostart? 3/16?

[@FarmallDoctor]

Yes. 3/16" compression sleeve and nut.

[@brandonlykins9245]

@@FarmallDoctor thanks. I have the heater plug on my Ford 5610S already wired up to ignition switch but no fuel feeding the heater. I'll tie into the fuel return line and come off that with 3/16 steel tubing. Thanks I think my return line is the plastic fuel line so will have to use anti collapse inserts with compression fitting on that part. Appreciate the response.

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@brandonlykins9245 on a 5610 your injector leak-off line should hold enough fuel for the heater. If you use a tee fitting like used on injectors 2 through 4, you can install that on injector 1 and feed the heater from there.

[@michiganhay7844]

I have a white 2-60, seconds I hear a pop I assume that’s when the flame gets ignited when do you crank the engine after the pop or do you let the flame keep burning? Just wondered if it runs out of oxygen

[@FarmallDoctor]

Keep running the heater after the flame starts fior a few seconds and keep running it while cranking.

[@michiganhay7844]

@@FarmallDoctor OK good to know the manual doesn’t explain any of that and it doesn’t even talk about the pop or the ignition that you hear so thank you. I have the electric manifold pre-heater on my 2105 and it was pretty useless. It just ran the battery down and then the tractor didn’t have any juice for cranking but this on that little Fiat works great.

[@petarmiletic997]

Yes you can overdo it and use up oxygen, but it takes quite a while, around 50- 60 seconds. Most of the time when i can't hear it i cound to 30 and that seems to work well. The way you notice when you overdo it is that you start cranking and it seems like it's JUST about to start, it will spew black smoke but won't start. Solution for that is stop, wait 2 -3 seconds and try again, this time without using the heater, and it will start right up.

[@michiganhay7844]

@@petarmiletic997 thank you for the tip

[@dwighthallmark1180]

Do you know if I Can put this on a jd 2020

[@FarmallDoctor]

Yes. Most of them had one when new.

[@jemetoumi7304]

Simple n easy explination..thanku.... in hot areas sometimes or mostly we dont use .yet the engine it starts easy... is it important or not if it is not working?.. or it s just for easy starting the engine.... thanks

[@FarmallDoctor]

It is only for easier starting in cold climates.. Not a worry if your original unit is inoperable.

[@f350ctd]

The thermostart plug on my MF50 wasn't working so I ordered a new one. Looked like a straight swap but my original plug used a 3/16" fuel line and the new plug will only accept a .170 inch line which I assume may be a metric size. So what started out to be 20 minute job has now consumed 6 hours in a futile effort to rig up some type of adapter. Have you run into this problem? I plan to chuck the new plug in the lathe today and ream out to 3/16". Hopefully the plug isn't hardened and can be drilled. Provided I don't go to deep and destroy the fuel valve it should work. If I screw it up I'll only be out $13. Any advice?

[@FarmallDoctor]

Gee.. I did not know that there were different sizes.. The company that I buy them from only offers two different styles- screw type electrical terminal or spade. Maybe it woul dbe easier to just change the line?

[@f350ctd]

​@@FarmallDoctorI reamed it out to 3/16" and it's hooked up and working now. Thanks for the help!

[@ferdikkie]

Do you know which tractors do have that small reservoir? My Dexta currently doesn't heat and has no fuel line going to the glow plug, but willing to change that into a working system

[@FarmallDoctor]

The Dexta parts breakdown does not show a reservoir being used, and the heater plug is shown as being equipped only on units with the early vacuum governed injection pump. in either case, you would benefit from using the reservoir because the fuel tank and return are lower than the intake manifold.

[@ferdigielen7660]

I do have a Dexta with the gouvener pump on it, so looks like it has been taken of in the past. After some research I found a company that has a complete set with the reservoir, glowplug and some piping for the fuel lines so I will order that one and help the Dexta the coming winter. Thanks for the quick feedback!

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

@@ferdigielen7660 How did the Thermostart system for the Dexta work out?

[@funone8716]

So it lights in about 10 seconds

[@FarmallDoctor]

@@funone8716 it lights right away, but the burn doesn't start until 30 seconds. The fuel burn is what does the job, not the element.