Depth, Mastery, and Vanquish

🔴 Get bonus content by supporting Game Maker’s Toolkit - gamemakerstool... 🔴
Cover-based shooter Vanquish comes from PlatinumGames - a developer best known for beat 'em ups like Bayonetta and MadWorld. In this video I look at how Vanquish borrowed the best elements of Platinum's brawlers to make a shooter with an extraordinary amount of depth and opportunity for mastery.
Recommended reading:
Gamasutra: "Platinum Games' guide to action game design"
gamasutra.com/v...
Polygon: "Why The Wonderful 101 doesn't 'really' begin until the second playthrough"
www.polygon.com...
Ozzie Smith: "Dissecting the Core Mechanics of Vanquish"
ozziesmith.wor...
Turbo Button: "Defining Depth"
• Defining Depth
Games shown in this episode (in order of appearance):
Metal Gear Rising (PlatinumGames, 2013)
Bayonetta (PlatinumGames, 2009)
The Wonderful 101 (PlatinumGames, 2013)
Infinite Space (PlatinumGames, 2009)
Vanquish (PlatinumGames, 2010)
Gears of War (Epic Games, 2006)
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor (Monolith Productions, 2014)
Far Cry Primal (Ubisoft Montreal, 2016)
MadWorld (PlatinumGames, 2009)
Project Gotham Racing 4 (Bizarre Creations, 2007)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 (Neversoft, 2001)
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (Sora, 2014)
Rocket League (Psyonix, 2015)
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (Sledgehammer Games, 2014)
Music used in this episode:
Title Screen (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
UFO (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
Black Hole (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
Reverse (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
The Final Credits (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
Awaiting Input (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
Screen OFF (Please, Don't Touch Anything, blinch)
Contribute translated subtitles - amara.org/v/C3...

[@WritingOnGames]

I AM SO HAPPY YOU MADE THIS EPISODE. I was literally just thinking about Vanquish the other day and remembering how much I adored it at the time. One of my favourite Platinum games for sure - a real shame that it doesn't get talked about as much as Bayonetta or MGR.

[@hanniffydinn6019]

I still play challenge modes every week, it's the most intense gaming high ever. There is real depth and skill to it, really just an intense gaming high. Nothing since can even compare to that buzz.

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

@@hanniffydinn6019 So true!

[@ShanePatSmith]

"Any fighting game worth its salt" Don't worry there is plenty of salt to go around

[@remembertotakeshowerspleas355]

+Shane Smith STREET FIGHTER 5 BABY

[@joelmulder]

Shane Smith i

[@khatack]

Especially in versus mode against your friends ^^

[@carstorm85]

I tried to master life, I have yet to succeed.

[@RsnCheered]

Your videos are so professionally done, really inspiring mate, very enjoyable to watch as an aspiring games designer!

[@1groovigyrl]

Mark. You are an amazing KZbinr who is not afraid to speak his mind. Your videos open my mind to all the possibilities when making game. I am about to release a game and i use YOUR vids to make it. I love your channel! Gmtk (that's what the cool kids say. get on board) open my eye to the real reason why my favorite game are so cool. And show me game I love like downwell. Boss keys is just as amazing as we see how you think through this series. Keep it up!

[@Klarden]

Good video. Platinum really tries to make their games in a way, that you WANT to play them again, like a lot of classic Capcom titles (a lot of Platinum team worked on previously often times). They hit the perfect game lengh/amount of content usually, where you don't get too tired one one playthrough so you're ready to try all you learned (and some nice unlocks) in your next playthrough. Way too many games nowadays are made with a completely opposite desire to make something that you experience 100% in one long exhausting playthrough and never return to the game again, because you've seen and tried everything, or because whatever variation there is, is done "for the sake of having it" and doesn't feel interesting enough to try it out.

[@dantetouchdown9030]

This, this is why i dont like the modern open world trend, the games mostly just feel bloated and stretched, with a movie slapped to it

[@RandomUniqueStuff01]

I love this channel. Thank you for posting videos.

[@CircularEntertain]

I usually referrer to depth as the dynamics part of the MDA (similar to what you say in this video, except depth can also exist outside the players' control).

[@opcomment]

Yes, I'm going to re-download Vanquish. It's so much fun.

[@someoneelsecrystaloffical458]

I remember the first boss in Vanquish... IT WAS SOO HARDDDDDDD......

[@mickael486]

Vanquish and Binary Domain are 2 games that I wish, as you said, were more successful. It propels me to write an article about the state of the gaming market today compared to what it was back in the 80's and 90's. There's a lot to unpack there and I'd prefer it if you beat me to it. 😁

[@TheMetalFacevillain]

When it comes to making games that have mechanical depth, Shinji Mikami and Hideki Kamiya are masters. They make games that don't put all the focus on their depth but it's there for those who try to seek it and that makes me respect their work even more.

[@Hamhamsnoozer]

In cod, the best way to reload cancel is to swap your gun back and forth at that point. Melee or sprinting work to but they are slower.

[@PhillipAmthor]

I really loved this game. Sad that it had no multiplayer

[@gingerwhale871]

The game ive mastered is dishonored. Ive sunk around 150 hours into the 1. game and its dlcs. Im no stealthgame Br and never will be due to a lack of talent, but im pretty good at pulling of john wick like action sequences or speedsneaking past enemies. Dishonored sure aint perfect, but i love the way it doesnt limit me and rewards me for playing it by letting me find now ways to combine the tools its given me and providing a playground where i can do so through its fantastic lvldesign. If played stealthy with the goal to kill noone and be never seen, it even shifts from an action- to a puzzle game where i have apply my knowledge and its tools in various situations. Play the last lvl in the first Daud dlc where you have to free your assassins, with the 2 upper goals in mind for a great demonstration of that! An outstandinh game, if you ask me

[@IEnjoyBeingNaked]

I'm so glad people are still making videos about Vanquish. There really is a lot more to the combat than just hiding behind cover and spraying the assault rifle, like how some reviewers were playing when the game first came out. There's tons of neat tricks and strategies you can do like knocking bigger enemies and grouping them together with the LFE gun then throwing several grenades into them and into going AR mode and detonating them all another shot of the LFE gun.

[@vaiyt]

I think the reviewers were doing that out of reflex from playing so many cover shooters. Maybe Vanquish would have had a better reception if it ditched the cover mechanic and focused on being a crazy skidding murder machine.

[@DeathBringer769]

It's taken 10 years for people to stop looking at and playing every 3rd person shooter as some version of Gears, lol...

[@igorthelight]

And now Bayonetta and Vanquish have a second wave of fans because they are out on Steam.

[@kudosbudo]

Bayonetta yes, its well designed and not boring. Can't say the same for Vanquish. Bayonetta gives you a lot of information to learn but its all there while Vanquish (apart from being a bit boring) didn't. I got AR mode to trigger a few times but didn't at any point ever learn or understand why it was happening. Had I played longer maybe. But the game didn't tell me what was happening so it felt random. Had they given a way to practice these techniques like Bayonetta does then maybe more people would have used them and not written it off as a boring cover based shooter (like I did).

[@suspecthalo]

Also, just got a re-release on Steam 2 months ago. =)

[@OV3RK1LL3R65]

Wow I had no idea you could melee off of cover and get some airtime. Welp, time for a new Vanquish playthrough.

[@abyzzwalker]

+OV3RK1LL3R65 yup the shotgun if I remember right is the one that gives you the air flip.

[@SherlockHyde]

Yeah, no I'm pretty sure the shotgun gives you the uppercut, I don't remember which weapon gives you the Flash Kick that you can chain into mid-air slowdown. The sniper rifle maybe? Either way, boost melee is always the kick that launches you if it connects with something.

[@Kaznor]

@@SherlockHyde 5 years later, I'm gonna say that shotgun's melee is a backhand slap that can be charged and counter enemy's melee attack if timing is right.

[@dantetouchdown9030]

@@Kaznor and ill say the air kick belongs to the pistol and the machine gun

[@Olderaccount17]

@@dantetouchdown9030 I *THINK* that the melee attack depends only on where the weapon is on the D-pad and not the weapon itself. For example, if you select your "upper" weapon, the melee attack will be the same regardlessof what weapon you've placed there.

[@NakeyJakey]

another fantastic video

[@kiwirain1235]

Liked your goopy goblin brain video

[@zedaddy3530]

You've got a bunch of em too!

[@elmaxo1591]

So how is the gooby goby brain

[@elmaxo1591]

How is uncle buck

[@elmaxo1591]

Yoga ball gamer

[@NevetsTSmith]

I'd like to see platinum take on a sonic game

[@twingtwang5547]

YESSSSS

[@ganaham9144]

That would be interesting

[@t.7527]

Nevets t. Smith I think Twisted Pixel Games would be alot better for Sonic.

[@1r0zz]

+Taure Anthony eeee no... seeing LocoCycle (or something like that) shows to me they would just do Sonic Boom 2

[@zaphero5518]

My gosh, I can scarcely imagine what that would be.

[@TheGamingBritShow]

*Slow twee quirky piano music in the background for a video on Platinum games*. Jack Status: Not letting 'er rip.

[@NoKiddingBoss]

+TheGamingBritShow if he used rock music then everyone will stop watching and instead start playing. you cannot deny the rules of nature.

[@chachawho435]

Make a video on the pc version of vanquish

[@eugenehahn559]

TheGamingBritShow I

[@ashers.5856]

The “Don’t press anything” music

[@suchayandas6136]

I thought you hated that moment

[@MeatThatTalks]

Your videos are just getting more and more thoughtful and articulate. Honestly might be my favorite channel on KZbin right now. Keep it up, mate. Absolutely loving what you're doing here.

[@GMTK]

+Pete Crivellaro Thanks!

[@PauLtus_B]

I do think you're like the "Every Frame a Painting" of gaming. Talking about the very important things most people don't talk about.

[@PauLtus_B]

Good to know people feel similar. To me both their videos make me wonder why so little people talk about it (although I can guess) while it's so interesting and important.

[@GMTK]

+Kevin J. Dildonik Thanks. EFAP was obviously a big inspiration to start making this sort of thing and yes, I think a clear flow of ideas and a strong narrative structure is extremely important to keep viewers engaged and get my points across

[@PauLtus_B]

Game Maker's Toolkit Cool to hear. Both of your content is very interesting to watch. But you both stand out because you're not just discussing the stories, and what you're discussing is very inspirational and helpful for the people who want to create themselves.

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

@@PauLtus_B Yeah only one of the two channels is still going strong in the year 2020.

[@PauLtus_B]

@@anti-ethniccleansing465 That's half a shame isn't it.

[@prowlingmonkey]

If I didn't do it stylishly, can I really say I did it at all?

[@radsquid9541]

Wow, vanquish looks extremely good for it's age

[@andrewt9128]

Yes it does, holds up like a sonofabitch!

[@Aladelicous]

Man, Platinum more or less saved last gen for me.

[@vman339]

+Aladelicous This is the understatement of the year. In an age where many were just trying to make something to appeal to the most temporary attention span of people, they were making games that you would play years later. I personally mastered Metal Gear Rising and DMC 4, and am working on a Viewtiful Joe TAS showcase. I can safely say that adding replayability to your game pays off long-term, and anyone not playing games twice probably is in the wrong medium altogether.

[@abyzzwalker]

+Aladelicous From Software And Platinum for me :D

[@Stroggoii]

We got five Ninja Gaidens, too many God of Wars to care, three Castlevania of War, Dante of War, and the two shittiest DMCs to date. All were crap. If it wasn't for Bayonetta and MGR I'd have given up on the Hack n`Slash genre. Beat-em-ups/brawlers didn't do much better, what was there? That awful Bloodrayne game that was Bloodrayne in name only and Slain!? Meh.

[@zeusoftheaegis9038]

Stroggoii I'm sorry, while I'm all for praising Bayonetta and MGR (I've the plat) myself but saying that they saved the hack n slash genre is a gross overstatement....especially when you've listed the NG and GOW games. Granted they were both excellent 1 shot games from Platinum studios but neither one is harder than the Ninja Gaiden games (again I have the MGR Plat, only it comes close) nor has a better story and scale than the God Of War games. These two big HnS franchises carry the genre and have done so even when DMC dropped the ball with their shitty new Emo Dante in DmC and 2 of Castlevania's lack luster Lords of Shadow games. I don't care for others like Dante's Inferno, Darksiders etc but I'd love to see a MGR sequel and Bayonetta 2 on PS3. Just don't say that the NG & GOW games are bad since they are the big names in this franchise.

[@Stroggoii]

GOW stopped being fresh or enjoyable after 2 least you really identify with Kratos' murder for the sake of murder personality. And Ninja Gaiden kept getting easier from Sigma onwards. Ninja Gaiden 2 was fun, beautiful looking and had a cute sort of plot similitude with The Dark Sword of Chaos that made you feel at home if you're a fan of the NES games. But they were the same overthreaded ground from past generations. Bayonetta felt new. And counting Darksiders for Hack and Slash is super naive, it's clearly a Zelda clone with just a bit more combat than Link is used to. You're never expected or required to actually master the combat system in those games but you sure as hell are expected to dungeon crawl, solve a billion puzzles and play errand boy for everyone with a speaking role who isn't outright evil and even for some who are.

[@gamewhisperer6068]

All these years and still no Vanquish 2. I cry my self to sleep with my Sam figure gripped in my hands.

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@MarikBentusi]

Ahhh, man, watching this video felt liberating. I've always wondered why I kept replaying MG:Rising and continued to enjoy the combat more each time (which usually doesn't happen with other games - and I'm not really the type to seek out gameplay mastery consciously, so that thought just hadn't crossed my mind). And I've always had trouble more compactly expressing what "skill" means to me in something like Dota where revealing any obfuscated information for newbies is met with resistance from the hardcore community in the name of "lowering the game's skill requirements". (I believe skill has more to do with using your toolset cleverly, rather than crawling through wiki pages and youtube vids to notice the full toolset). I feel much clearer about my thoughts on both those topics after watching your video, thank you very much!

[@CoolRobbit]

Glad you mentioned Dota, I'm an ex-fan and long-time player. It annoys me when diehard fans praise it for being "the hardest and deepest thing ever" when 90% of its difficulty is in memorization an entire encyclopedia of mechanics and optimizing them to mathematical perfection. It falls into the "breadth" thing talked about in the video: there is a huge amount of mechanics, but ignoring a small handful of heroes, playing most every one of them is simply about pressing Q, W, E, and/or R once each at the optimal time when you're not minmaxing your farming output by last hitting or jungling, or playing matchups by remembering who you can and can't fight with which items and with which heroes missing on the map, which extend the memorization curve... but not really the execution or critical thought ones. I'd compare Dota to a really elaborate puzzle box. It's really intriguing when you first look at it, but once you solve the puzzle, it gets really boring really quickly. Even new patches just change the solution slightly. I think that's Dota's biggest problem, really. Once you remove the beginner-unfriendliness, the game's only challenging in meaningless, nitpicky ways that don't involve the rest of the players in the game as much as they do your knowledge of its convoluted ruleset. Maybe that's why the fans are so adamant about protecting that, I guess.

[@zetetick395]

Heheh! ....Perhaps should have ended with _"Sometimes I wish we lived in a parallel universe where _*_Vanquish_*_ was a Mega-Hit, but here we are.....With Gears of sodding War 4"_ XD

[@MartinMas93]

Man, I love your videos.

[@Crowbar]

I hope Vanquish comes to PC so we can play with 60 fps or more

[@GMTK]

+Crowbar Yeah, I could go for a PS4 re-release too, right now.

[@jonko82]

+Game Maker's Toolkit I would love a PS4 rerelease but I think it's unlikely considering that it didn't do very well, saleswise, when it first released. But then again, we got a hidden gem like Beyond Good and Evil - which sold poorly originally - rerealesed on the PS3 and XBOX360 so there is hope. Now if only Ubisoft would get on with making the sequel. Game Maker, I'm curious, have you played Beyond Good and Evil? And if so did you enjoy it?

[@GMTK]

+jonko82 Yes and yes!

[@leonelc29]

+Crowbar Yes, yes please.

[@noelshen1580]

pcsx2

[@nonlegend]

if I had the money, I would pay for a sequel to Vanquish myself.

[@galvanizeddreamer2051]

We all would.

[@PhillipAmthor]

@@galvanizeddreamer2051 even jesus and chuck norris would

[@KeramatZMode]

ive clocked in more than 200 hours on vanquish... YOU CAN SHOOT ON THE GRENADE? WHAT?

[@ManofOneGod]

I finished Vanquish many times and it is still one of my favorite games of all time. We can only hope to see a sequel. It very well deserves it.

[@Anna_Rae]

Im sure this might be why shmups and racing games like F-Zero don't become popular, it's unfortunate.

[@atabinator]

When designing the game, do the developers come up with the high level strategies themselves? Or are they simply found by players accidentally? Things like animation cancelling don't seem like tactics originally intended by developers but exploits that players find only through practice. How do developers account for this?

[@GMTK]

+batchi It's hard to know whether some of this stuff is intentional. Platinum is all about cancelling (you can cancel any move into a dodge in nanoseconds in Bayonetta) so I'd be surprised if they never tried to cancel a reload during dev. I think the physical complexity of pulling it balances out the fact that it's a "cheat" As for stuff that's truly a bug - it's down to the developer to figure out whether it's hurting the game (if it's creating a dominant strategy in singleplayer, or killing the balance in multi) and patch it out, or decide it's cool and leave it in. Stuff like animation cancelling and all the crazy bullshit from Melee has become the bedrock for certain multiplayer games so bugs aren't all bad ;)

[@JONIMASAKIS]

+Game Maker's Toolkit can you give the actual meaning of platinum games?

[@jesusdiaz270]

+batchi In Platinum Games scenario, I thinkk they just look for this things. But, it's known that things like combos in the original Street Fighter II were accidents, exploits, that later were acknowledged by developers with the Super SFII giving score points for using these combos. So, in the end, it's something that must be looked game by game.

[@CH-fp6gj]

+batchi As a designer I can say that most of us look to create synergy between systems, making sure they work well together to add depth as the video discusses. Sometimes you find unintended strategies during the development process which you either keep in the game or remove depending on the target market for the game and if it breaks the game by being an easy dominant strategy. Hope that helps.

[@DeathBringer769]

Sometimes it's intended, sometimes it's completely unexpected emergent gameplay once all the gameplay systems and mechanics combine.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

Platinum games in general. Well, most. Also like to add Devil May Cry 3/4, and God Hand. Watch MikeKob's God Hand playthroughs, and donguri990's Devil May Cry 4's combo videos. +Game Maker's Toolkit

[@XenonG]

+Hemang Chauhan You forgot ChipCheezumLPs' The Wonderful 101 and Metal Gear Rising :)

[@hemangchauhan2864]

XenonG I was taking about non-Platinum games that have similar design philosophy, hence my examples.

[@Blackcloud288]

+Hemang Chauhan God Hand is Platinum though. Different name, but all Platinum staff are ex-Clover.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

Blackcloud288 Yeah...

[@KamikazeChinaman]

Donguri is God.

[@stevebob240]

Great video! I love Platinum games, they're all about making you feel like a badass. I love Kamiya's comment on the first playthrough being a tutorial, I feel like that applies to most Platinum games.

[@Sergeeeek]

If you want a multiplayer first person medieval fighting game with incredible depth you should play Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. Tthough not so great for beginners, because of the lack of match making, it gets really good when you grasp basic mechanics and you REALLY start having fun. I just don't have words to describe how amazing this game is and how fun it is, you have to try it. Also Tony Hawks games are really fun too. I have THUG2 on my psp so whenever I have free time I just bust it out and practice a bit. That's a really deep game too.

[@glitch2424]

Great video. Question, even though I know you're busy and it might not be answered, but what is an alternative to a grading system? Why I enjoyed cuphead so much is that there wasn't so much a grading system but I enjoyed mastering each boss. Honestly I can't remember much if there was, but that speaks volumes to how defeating the boss (with full life and time efficiency) is simple enough validation that "hey you did it!". DMC/Bayonetta's grading system always made me feel like shit after each encounter. Yes I'm aware im not good at those games but there has to be a better way than an elementary (literally!) grading system. In a way it almost seems lazy (although as a budding game dev myself i know it's much more difficult to implement). Grading systems, imo, belong in school. Doom Eternal was great - probably the best "action" game ever made - and you scrape by by the skin of your teeth. Finishing an encounter is its own reward not because of its difficulty but because it requires you to play teh game it's meant to be played. But maybe it alienates newcomers like mentioned in your awesome video, but I believe it solves this rating system elegantly (by almost not having it at all). Obviously a very debatable topic.

[@MegapiemanPHD]

Vanquish is so good man. So good.

[@mexicanburrito2979]

The heart warming feeling of another episode. Love them all!

[@XanderHDD]

+MexicanBurrito Same.

[@WOWItsPhil]

Breadth VS depth! Perfect video (as always!)

[@GMTK]

+WOW! It's Phil THANKS BRO

[@foreignsgamingtech]

You mentioned THPS. That game is something much more than most people think, actually. You mentioned that it takes great skill to make longer and more complicated combos. But it goes even deeper, actually. Even though the community is relatively small right now, even less of the players are skillful enough to show what can be done in THPS games. Bugs and glitches can be used for benefit, controlled to the player's own needs, only requiring the dexterity to accomplish. Techniques based on glitches are so profound that most players know what a buttslap or a kubdrift is, and use those during gameplay, even though those are basically bugs. The community has long ago reached a point when scores don't matter - what you can accomplish with your skater is what matters. How you accomplish it is what matters. Does the person have a certain style, can he create a deep and versatile enough combination of tricks, transfers and techniques so that his run is compelling to watch even after over 15 years of playing the series? The surface of THPS has only been scratched by the 99% of the people who had played it. The other 1% are the ones who understand what THPS is about. And even less of that actually know how to use the possibilities the games give the player. I will link you to a few videos I consider great (there are far much more, most of which were lost during the years). Considering your interest in deep mechanics used in games, I think THPS may prove to be very interesting. A transfer video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/moO5eap3faiajMk A no manual video (a line created with the intention of never touching the ground) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKOTk2R9r55kf8U A more recent video of what is considered cool in THPS right now - massive amounts of glitching and creative integration of those into combos - kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3unlnmIltd2ldE

[@GMTK]

+foreign's gaming tech Thanks for the info - I *love* Tony Hawk's but I don't know about half this stuff. Very interesting, thanks.

[@foreignsgamingtech]

+Game Maker's Toolkit if you haven't heard of it - there's a free mod for THUG2 called THUGPro, that adds tons of levels from previous games (thps3-thaw) into one game, adds a working online server and gives a lot of new possibilities for character and park creations and is basically the dream of any THPS fan. Just google it and go the reddit page mentioned in the wiki.

[@DeathBringer769]

Never stop learning ;)

[@TheDudesPerspective]

I feel like the first two vids are just some amazing runs that prove Mark's point about depth and mastery. The last clip I believe is just takig it too far. Sure, it's amazing that some are able to learn all those glitches, be able to pull them off consistently and pedict their behaviour (because we all know how crazy glitches can be), but why? It doesn't even look like Tony Hawk's at that point. I guess that's where you go when you have nowhere else to go, but imho, the guys could just try a new game? There are plenty other good genres and game series besides Tony Hawk's, and I feel like the massive amounts of time they probably invested could have been better spent discovering a new passion. You can love more than one thing. Anyway, my point is, 99% of the players just scraping the surface is bs. Considering the general difficulty of games at that time, a lot of people probably finished TH games (cause they were far from hard), and by the end-game levels the game basically teaches you how it's meant to be played through certain missions (like the C-O-M-B-O letters) which become quite hard towards the end, compared to first tries. By this point is where you realize the whole level is a massive playground just for that purpose, so you never have to just skate from A to B. You can do a sick combo as you ride around the level, and also transfer from a path (such as electric wires) to some rails or a fence on the ground that goes towards your destination. As far as I remember, no matter what your objective was, it was always easiest if you did it in one combo. So yeah, I would say a lot of people have seen the depth of TH games, it's just that, maybe 99% chose not to go full god-mode on those games or beyond that. The glitch video fits the levels of exilation meme :D Every video game probably has this group of extremely hardcore players (I was in the Left 4 Dead one, and I could argue that a way higher percentage of people missed the depth of L4D, than they did with Tony Hawk's; but that's another story). However mastering a game's mechanics pretty much happens when you fall in love with a game, and starting to discover and abuse its hidden mechanics and bugs is what happens afterwards. This doesn't necessarily add to the fun. Figuring out THPS is about traversal, momentum and rythm is pretty obvious when you get to the end-game, and if you want to perfect this and become the ultimate combo machine, that's a choice.

[@DevilFox92]

Great video! The team Inaba + Mikami gave me 2 of my favourite games ever: Vanquish and God Hand (mastered to the highest level, believe me). My respect and admiration for them is beyond measure, especially for Mikami that led innovation in gaming like few others. Seriously, whatever genre he decides to try, he nails it. Someone please bring them together again to make God Hand 2 and Vanquish 2. I need it. The world needs it.

[@peacemaster8117]

+DevilFox I lie awake dreaming of a God Hand 2. Capcom will never make it, we need a "spiritual successor" fan sequel. I can't master God Hand for shit, but trying to git gud is some of the most enjoyable gaming I've ever done.

[@siempreviva]

Vanquish my favorite ps3 game, what do you think of Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days... i love that game, and I think you can find some depth in there too, but everyone is afraid to touch it. Love if you could make a comment.

[@GMTK]

I didn't really like it when I played it way back when, but I have heard good things. I'd like to try it again one day with a fresh perspective.

[@DarianBax]

I think Kane & Lynch 2 is a very underrated game, it really tries something new..However that ultra-short campaign really put me off

[@1r0zz]

I like to define the hate to Kane and Lynch 2 as a "social justice hate". not because there was a controversy (even if the game is controversial to say the least...) but because that game was brutalized by everyone and their grandma' because they "could not attack" the real games that made the genre so shit... it's like when you see an FPS similar to CoD and everyone critic it as being "out of date and bad" but CoD (the originator of that "hate") still gets a free pass for most of the stuff it does, and never get any criticism. (I do not want to imply CoD is bad by default. CoD is the best example on how you keep a IP well received. a lesson. and the lesson is pretty much "do not randomly change to not alienate the fan-base"... it's so Ironic how everybody failed and did the CONTRARY...). Kane and Lynch 2 is bad? no. it's short and simplistic. it has amazing direction and style, and fully embrace the "gritty and edgy" feeling making it honest. (I mean, most other games make the sociopath killer protagonist a "propaganda quirk" that is glorified for his action and only suffer for other people action...)

[@DGTLCLANGAMING]

Pato hinojosa Kane and lynch 2 has my favourite online mode ever

[@SDub817]

Thank you for this, Vanquish was the first game I played from Platinum. The demo kicked my ass at first and I hated it, but then I saw a playthrough from a Sega employee and saw him doing all types of crazy shit. I went around looking for answers on how to do all the cool stuff I saw in the video, played the demo again, aced it, bought the full game and now it's been my favorite title from Platinum since then.

[@Jonas-ob2sh]

I wish Platinum would create a game that is challenging and which has only one difficulty mode at some point in the future, Souls games have proved that you can be niche and still be super popular.

[@aarcvault908]

Very interesting and comprehensive combination of overview, tutorial and summary of both top notch games. Well done.

[@SeraphimKnight]

Completing the final challenge in Vanquish is a spectacular feat on its own. To this day I haven't been able to do it. That last rocket-pack mob trio is just insane.

[@jhonejay1426]

which one is that?

[@dantegamer1]

I feel kinda dumb now that I saw this video, I already played a good chunk of this game and did not use any of the level 3 strategies that the video shows, I feel that I just don't need to make any of those moves if I can play in a "passive aggressive" style, using cover when shit gets real and going free when things are less aggressive. I found the penalty system for dying(losing gun upgrade) a good reason for why I keep playing this way.

[@DemonKnight94]

Boostdodging like that is no good but you can do dodge rolls after a boost halfway to save energy also you go 20% faster if you boost diagonaly. Divekick can also be used after a boost and cancel the landing with a roll to move fast with less energy use.

[@Zondac]

I feel like the first Crysis actually did this, which may be why Crysis 1 felt so much more complete than the sequels

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Lol no

[@bostonbignutts]

I wish stylish action games like these had more widespread appeal. This whole video feels like a love letter to what's probably my favorite genre of game.

[@sundrae]

This was my favorite game that my best friend lent me. It amazed me so much that it didn't become the hit i wished it to be. So complicated yet so simple and incredible to play. Im sad it never got a pc release... Sad day. Amazing video though! I had a class last year for User Experience and I showed some of your videos. Design by Subtraction, Mario's 4 Step Level Design and Why Nathan Drake Doesn't Need a Compass. These videos have gone a long way to help me think more about the user rather than of ways to fulfill my ego as a designer and trying to look smart with intricate puzzles that only I can solve.It's about having fun, for everyone. Love the series and keep it up!!!

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

I saw a comment by someone else that said good release it for the PC about a year or two after you left your comment here.

[@SokiofSci]

I always love seeing your new videos, and especially this one. Vanquish is one of my favorite games of the last gen and I think it is criminally underrated.

[@Sabu8000]

Just stumbled over this channel today. I am really pleasantly surprised to find a channel talking about games in a deep, detailed and educated way. Thank you for this!

[@Santiago-lf4dz]

creo que que los unicos dos juegos que me he dedicado a dominar de verdad son el resident evil 4 (mi videojuego favorito), y batman arkham knight. es increible como al acostumbrarme a las mecanicas llego a un punto en el que practicamente entiendo a la perfecion las diferentes interacciones que pueden resultar al realizar una determinada accion en el juego. por ejemplo, cuando en RE 4 me encuentro rodeado por muchos aldeanos, y simplemente le disparo con la pistola a uno de ellos para aturdirlo y al acercarme y presionar el boton de pataear, el resto tambien se lleva un gran golpe. o en batman, que incluso quitando esas advertencias encima de las cabezas de mis enemigos cuando estan a punto de golpearme, puedo derrotarlos sin problemas, y de hecho puedo seguir contraatacando de manera perfectamente sincronizada, o al evitar perder mi combo solo... esquivando a los enemigos sucesivamente uno tras otro. PD: amo tus videos, edicion perfecta, guion perfecto y sintetizado, y me impresiona de verdad tu capacidad de analisis sobre cada detalle que conforma un videojuego y como se le puede sacar provecho. bravo, deberias estar trabajando para nintendo, naughty dog, platinum games o cualquier desarrolladora de primera clase que se te ocurra. sigue asi

[@guillermocereijidolopez4657]

Great video, so underrated game...

[@MellowGaming]

Vanquish is a hugely under appreciated game. Another one I've been playing that has a crazy amount of depth to master is Assault Android Cactus. There's a load of tiny systems in that game that elevate it above a regular twin stick shooter to something you can genuinely master with enough skill.

[@denzelromero4796]

It got boring after 3 hours, environment didn't change at all

[@STRONTIumMuffin]

If you take a look at Halo 5 It has some great use of advance techniques, You can cancel a slide with a jump to retain momentum and even carry this into a thruster pack move or smart hover, alternatively you can thrust into a slid jump to do a Mario galaxy like long jump which combines well with crouching before you grab a ledge letting you grab higher ledges, you can change seats in vehicles to avoid falling out if timed correctly and cancel scoping or reload animations by clambering ledges. Unfortunately It's an Xbox exclusive but it has huge potential and carries many of the advance techniques from previous Halos. other great games for this case study would probably be any of the smash bros games or valves shooters.

[@hanniffydinn6019]

VANQUISH is a FUCKING amazing game, I play it all the time. It has an INTENSE BUZZ once you learn its magic NOTHING so far on the planet can give me that INTENSE GAMING HIGH! All other shooters seem TOO SLOW once you get into vanquish. It's a true masterpiece.

[@mstrswrd]

My only gripe (and it's fairly minor) is your usage of genre terminology- Brawlers, Character Action, and Beat-em-Ups (and Hack and Slash) are all different sub-genre's within the overarching "Action" genre. Yes, I'm that guy. I apologize. Like, for real, but I'm not stopping. Now, for example, Bayonetta, MGR, and DMC are Character Action games; games with an incredible amount of depth that exists purely for you the player- basically, the game giving you the tools to "Style" as hard as possible on your opponent with depth of gameplay that is never really necessary, but is always there. A Beat-em-Up is River City Ransom- usually simpler games that are more focused on the satisfaction of just hitting a lot of dudes without making it too complex (of course, Fighting game/Beat-Em-Up hybrids are more complex, but those are another story all together). Also, technically, God Hand is a Beat-em-Up, one of the few I can think of that works amazingly in 3D and has incredible subtlety and complexity while still remaining a Beat-em-Up, though that's for a specific reason- it's actually a Beat-em-Up by way of the mindset and methodology of a Character Action game*, making it truly unique... and fantastic. A Brawler is God of War- a game that, while it has _some_ depth, never quite reaches the level of say, combo into weapon switch canceling into (different) combo into sword hanger into launcher into jump canceling an air combo for like 20 seconds purely because you can into Devil Trigger into another sword hanger into etc, etc, etc, that you'd get in Devil May Cry 3 (special edition, since I just described a Vergil combo). Basically, when you talk about the "Style" of the game, are you using the word as an adjective or a verb? If it's a verb, it's probably Character Action. Hack and Slash is Musou (Warriors). Dynasty Warriors, Samurai Warriors, Hyrule Warriors, etc. Hundreds of mooks, murder them all, simple controls, go. It's actually the most closely related to Beat-em-Ups, honestly. That being said, the Musou games have finally added some real depth to their systems these last few years (the most recent Samurai Warriors was like 2-3 steps away from just being Character Action. It was great). A lot of it, admittedly, comes down to game feel (which you did an episode on(!) which I will watch after I finish this comment), and that's only partially quantifiable as it is, in part, also a personal thing. *Most everything Platinum does that ends up real good is "X game in Y Genre as interpreted through the lens of the mindset and methodologies of Character Action."

[@SDub817]

What do you think about Sengoku Basara?

[@mstrswrd]

SDub817 Honestly, looking back at this, I should have written "Hack and Slash and Beat-em-ups are basically the same genre," not, "They are the most similar." Anyway, having only played the first, It's Hack-and-Slash, but I also have no idea how complex they've made it since so... yeah.

[@SDub817]

I got into the series with SB3, went back and played the first 2. Yeah 1,2/2Heroes are definitely hack n slash, but 3/Utage/4 are weird in that they have character action type movesets, but the stages still play out like a beat 'em up.

[@mstrswrd]

SDub817 That's awesome- it's a trend I've noticed even in other Hack-and-Slash games, like Samurai Warriors; an increasingly complex move-set with more technicalities, but none of it is required, it's totally optional depth for those who want it. It's like all the Hack-and-Slash developers sat down and played DMC3 one day, and all went "That. That's what we need to do, but in our own way."

[@michielkroder4031]

They're all basically beat 'em ups, when it comes down to it. Whether you wield a weapon by default to engage in melee combat with or not (let's get rid of hack 'n slash as well). I've always disliked the nomer (character) action games to describe beat 'em ups with, as action games by its very name should include all games in which you directly control a character or vehicle that responds to your button presses in real time and there are real time situations to deal with. So yes, platformers, shooters (2D, 3D and first or third person), versus fighters, and maze games, to name a few, are all technically action games. Maybe melee combat would be a good modern description for the beat 'em up genre?

[@unethicalgarrogate7567]

The reload-cancel in call of duty has been changed in the new Black Ops. You can reload while running, so now you have to double-tap exceptionally quickly the weapon-switch button to cancel reload animations. I've had the game since release and I still cannot come to terms with this mechanic. It's difficult to unlearn something that's now second-nature.

[@KingTwelveSixteen]

Ori and the Blind Forest gets pretty absurd after you unlock most of the mobility options in it. I always had super fun times hopping around the final level with all my crazy tools and stuff. To bad it's only the final level you really get to mess around all crazy-like with all those tools. :(

[@designybits4709]

I love Vanquish! It's one of the most thrilling experiences regardless of how well you can play it :)

[@drakonhebi3786]

I,ve been mastering Dark Souls for years and it,s so different how to learn to be good at. Great great video!

[@justforrandomvids]

Super Smash Bros. Melee!!!!

[@StainlessPot]

Wish there was a PC port of this one. Played it on a friend's PS3, and had a blast, but have nothing to replay it on at home.

[@hanniffydinn6019]

You muppet just buy a PS3, they are cheap as chips now. I fucking love vanquish, all other shooters are too slow once you get that vanquish gaming high.

[@DamienDarksideBlog]

More like we want to play this game with buttery-smooth animation and crazy FPS.

[@hanniffydinn6019]

DamienDarksideBlog dunno seems to work great on consoles. People can't play this crazy game at normal framerates...

[@waspennator]

Bayonetta just got a pc port, maybe with some luck Vanquish will get one as well.

[@a_lethe_ion]

well the older consoles are pretty cheap now?

[@fredrikstaffansson4473]

The Master level of Counter-Strike is changing between your rifle and knife ten times per second. True story.

[@IvanGoremykin]

Half-Life 2: Deathmatch. I've been playing it for years. Master skill: drop a grenade, pick it with Gravity-gun before it touches the ground and throw it to an enemy - much faster and accurate than by bare hands. You should take into account: 1. The speed of the grenade thrown by Gravity-gun. 2. The state of the grenade explosion timer. 3. The position of your opponent at the moment of grenade explosion. Unlike behavior of grenade timer in singleplayer game, in multiplayer each time player picks grenade with Gravity-gun, its timer is reset. That allows two players throw-and-catch the same grenade as long as one of them misses the timer expiration. That's why you want to throw grenade not straight into the player (he can easily catch it), but somewhere above him, which makes it more difficult to catch the grenade (and reset its timer).

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

LOL… I didn’t even know that Half Life 2 had multiplayer! I didn’t get HL2 until I got used for cheap many years later, as The Orange Box. I always assumed it was just single player. Too funny. I like your tip though!

[@locdogg86]

id like a platinum racing game.

[@ephsk0t]

Xbox 360 - Earth Defense Force 2025 - Fencer Boost Cancel The Fencer is pretty unplayable on his own without good teamwork. That is, until you learn about the "boost cancel". This allows the Fencer to cancel his boost cool down and gives him unlimited boost. Making him one of the fastest characters in the game. I haven't gotten a chance to play EDF 4.1 on PS4, but I hope they left this feature in.

[@superstreetfighter14]

Dodge boost is kinda like the Wind Run in Ninja Gaiden games. Wind Run + Jump makes you cover large distances during combat.

[@GentleHeretic]

6:22 My problem with this statement isn't that designing games to be replayed is innately bad, in fact I love returning to games that I've enjoyed; but if you can't provide me enough in the first playthrough to at least have a general gist of what fun looks like, then I'm not going to have any reason to come back. If the first playthrough is so limited and presumably boring it's classified as a long tutorial, you need to refocus on what's actually fun and rework everything from scratch.

[@madmaxim3965]

These type of games (it's never really had an official genre name like most do, early games where usually called hack and slash due to there usually being a sword or melee weapon similar to one that was your based weapon this name however became outdated due to games like vanquish , Bayonetta that used guns as there main weapons with the same effect character action is the one I hear the most now thou it still hasn't really caught on due to in part fans not believing games like DMC or ninja Gaiden not alike at all which is like saying gta or red dead redemption/cyberpunk/Spiderman are not in the same genre. When they all inhabit the open world sandbox design and are each unique takes on it same with Hollow knight metroid and ori with metroidvanias.. ninja Gaiden dmc and God of war og are different takes of whatever u want to call this genre, because the all share the same base design function combats that can be mashed thru and not given much thought and still be fun and entertaining while offering those who want more the depth and variety to express there skill.level in the way of combo chaining movesets using mechanics in creative ways and technical know how to.pull it of consistent however way you play in the end doesn't effect if you can beat its more intrinsic and bragging rights

[@spidermand100]

This was fascinating. I really enjoyed Just Cause 2 for its parachute grapple hook combo and how after hours of using it I could glide and fly through the air extremely fluidly. I was disappointed with Just Cause 3 and I think this video showed me why. they stripped out all the depth in favor of breadth. It became easy to fly and grapple. Instead of mastering it, I felt cheated by the overly easy mechanic. Great video as always, keep up the good work!

[@pingwin7035]

Ive finished Titanfall 2 6 times and played some missions even more but it still remains fun because of mechanics like slide hopping animation canceling etc. Any Quake is also a great place to try to master some weapons and maps even if its impossible. Managing 8 weapons while bhopping and rocketjumping at lightning speed predicting where your enemy is and what items will spawn isnt something you can get down in the first few hours. But the skill gap is huge in quake so its not rly accesable......:((

[@rarariot321]

A better example of a game which is extremely deep because of all that you have mentioned in your video is Super Smash Brothers Melee. Looking up some videos is of their techniques, it's quite fascinating.

[@blakejustin5731]

I agree Vanquish was one of the best games I've ever played. It makes 90% off all new games look like crap. Game dev's should watch people play this before ever even trying to make game to see how its done right.

[@rodrigopacheco12]

man, fucking bring this to the PC alrdy! Even games like Sonic 3 have depth, where you can exploit the spin dash to gain instant momentum.

[@Ularg7070]

Vanquish is completely underrated but I understand why it's hard to approach. Screen is just too busy and resolution is just way too low. Definitely needs to be on pc.

[@mourossonero]

excellent video, I'm learning so much because of your videos thank you.

[@KingFossilFER]

Transformers: Devastation explains like 20% of the game's mechanics except for some emssages you get onscreen when you die.

[@AnthonyAnalog]

I just bought Vanquish w/ a Bayonetta pack on a Steam sale. I hated the gun feel of the tutorial and turned it off. Might need to just accept that fact and push thru bc it looks fun.

[@Vykrex]

Love Vanquish, and absolutely love the dissection of the metagame. Subbed.

[@PavloIscariote]

Platinum Game was the new Capcom, Vanquish and Bayonetta my favourite games!!!

[@tfGalvatron1]

Man that game actually looks really good. Im not much for shooters, but I might just need to get this.

[@GagePeterson]

Celeste totally does this. I've started mastering the "super jump" recently to bypass some parts of the b-track.

[@beetheimmortal]

This game is incredible. The literal anti-covershooter. Also, Elena is very cute.

[@paulstaker8861]

Volgarr the Viking: Double Jump to deal damage and then in mid-air, hold Down to bring your sword down dealing another damage instantaneously. Love it.

[@Alexandre-rt7xk]

+Paul Staker Yeah, Volgarr the Viking is a master class in game design IMO.

[@paulstaker8861]

Alexandre Belmonte and in pissing me the hell off lol

[@quangdinhvo986]

Vanquish comes to PC in 2 days BTW..... I'm really excited as someone who's never had the chance.... :D:D:D:D:D

[@SojournToAlkaiser89]

Tried to master BlazBlue and Guilty Gear. That didn't last long.

[@OtakuUnderground92]

I never liked Vanquish. Felt like a generic time-bending third person shooter at the time it released.

[@tacticalochoa1310]

+Game Maker's Toolkit Wow. Now I have an even greater appreciation towards PlatinumGames and their works. Hell, I'm aspiring to be a video game designer and PlatinumGames is one of the game companies that I really want to work with the most.

[@EldenRingBuildsArchive]

Level 4: you use the EMP glitch to trivialise the challenges 😋

[@pAWNproductionsDE]

It always makes me happy to hear people talk about vanquish. It's such hidden gem

[@KazeVongola]

I'm glad to hear others liked this game as much as I did. I think it was a very underrated game and it certainly was memorable at the very least. I still remember starting a harder playtrough as soon as I finished the game for the first time just to try out all the things I've learned and to test myself.

[@luisronaldofigo]

+Kaze Vongola what is sad is that the only reason reviewers put it down was that it didnt have an online multiplayer .

[@TheBeatlesMadness]

Now coming to PC. Perfect time to revisit this video.

[@GamerDan89]

I wanna join your universe! Great Video and big love for Platinum Games

[@TheMemoman]

Dividing the players into these three categories is fine, but calling the second tier "players" doesn't feel correct, it doesn't feel rigorous enough for this typology based on mechanical mastery. All three categories are players, here using "player" for the middle ground is like using "normal" to describe any other middle ground concerning people, it doesn't provide in itself any meaning towards the criteria used for the classification and it's dismissive of other (particularly, inferior) categories as itself is the only or first one recognized as "normal", or an authentic "player". It's obtuse and ambiguous as a label. Surely there is a better term, for instance: Learners, Adepts, Masters. Or following other skill based model, like Dreyfus model of skill acquisition: Novice, Competent, Expert. Here all are still considered players, each on a different level, that is clearly labelled based on some level of mastery or skill acquisition.

[@DeathBringer769]

I'd also make the argument that all 3 divisions also count as "learners." Even "Masters" of a game constantly try to learn new tricks or exploits to improve their game, even if by a tiny amount. We all keep learning (or should) every day of our lives until the day of our deaths. There's never a point where you stop being a "learner," even if you're one of the best at something in the entire world, you can always improve or learn more, even if small amounts ;)

[@igorthelight]

Now it's on Steam ))) Bayonetta and Vanquish