Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019

We're joined by Roman ("Der8auer") at LTX 2019 to talk about thermal paste propertie and composition, misconceptions, & more.
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Find Der8auer here: / der8auer
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You can also find Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut on Amazon: geni.us/dX3xnYC
We're at the Linus Tech Expo (LTX 2019) to work with other content creators and KZbinrs on videos for a few days. Working with Der8auer, we talk about common misconceptions about thermal paste, like "air bubbles" that people think form with cooler mounting and thermal conductivity being somewhat incomparable between brands. We also talk about the material properties and composition of thermal compound, metals and electrical versus thermal conductivity (W/mK), curing, pump-out effect, paste hardening, Intel thermal paste, and more.
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Host: Steve Burke
Guest: Der8auer
Video: Keegan Gallick
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[@GamersNexus]

Watch our news video about CCX overclocking and more: kzbin.info/www/bejne/paiaoZemibOjebs Find Der8auer here: kzbin.info Pre-order the new GN Limited Wireframe foil shirt! store.gamersnexus.net/products/limited-wireframe-shard-cotton-t-shirt

[@cijoykjose]

You can pin your comment , but jesus unfortunately my devotion made me first .. 😁😇

[@cijoykjose]

What that youtube comment/reply disappearing bug again... !!!! You can pin your comment, but jesus my devotion made me first..😁😇

[@olivergottkehaskamp3369]

The shirt looks absolutely fabulous! Ordered it earlier today 😄

[@rusTORK]

Steve, i saw few companies which offer diffirent metal powders with diffirent size of particles. You may search for "nano metal particles powder". Nanoshel is one of them.

[@cartoonhead5819]

Could you test the Carbonaut pads on the new Ryzen CPU's? Please..

[@24YOA]

Things I did not expect to watch today: 20 minute video about thermal paste

[@ComeCaramelos_]

and indeed very funny, top 3

[@donovanjeppesen2446]

Crossing a country in strait line in 4:3 aspect ratio. i was not expecting to watch that. also this.

[@maighstir3003]

Neither did I. I was wondering what paste to get though, or if I should just use whatever's bundled with the cooler, so it suits me fine.

[@partyflockske]

and watched it all :)

[@AlexFeature]

Pretty much sums up YT algo.

[@mystical4442]

Always love watching videos featuring Tech Jesus and Jimmy Neutron together.

[@iTouch4444]

🤣🤣

[@rogehmarbi]

Jimmy Neutron, now I can't unsee that

[@M0M0257]

killed me lol

[@user-MrsYT]

Tech Jesus & Jimmy Neutron ... damn, never laught so much xxxxxxxxxxD

[@daveanthonysalalima1128]

Hahahaha!.. WTF!!!

[@robinfielding]

Business idea: Roman and Steve should collaborate on a Thermal Grizzly shower gel/shampoo line called Der5hauer. Steve modelling it, of course.

[@hazonku]

THERE IT IS! The name for the often requested Tech Jesus shampoo!

[@maighstir3003]

I would definitely buy it. Despite having cut off most of my once-glorious hair.

[@CWCustoms]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Genuinely had me laughing. The product of the gods!

[@combatwombat594]

I'd buy it xD

[@ratchbrg3882]

that statement, cracked my shit up xD

[@patrickshelley09]

You know you're a computer nerd when you find a 20 min video on thermal past riveting.

[@SkyForce6700]

Never let your GF find out about your YT history!🤣

[@LastSecBloomer]

I sure as hell did, I learned a lot from this.

[@TheKb117]

@@SkyForce6700 nerds don't have GFs.... I have a wife. hahaha Me: deleting YT history... :D

[@chrisB_OG]

yaaaas

[@Storkii_]

Roman and Steve on the Nürburgring? I want to see this!

[@georgemorley1029]

You and me both!

[@Tw1stTech]

Inside Romans GT-R R35 probably 😅

[@SamFirthDesigner]

Ooooh -what about a fast-geek meet? I'm taking my MR2 there eventually ...would love to see you guys.

[@Tw1stTech]

Sam Firth I’d be in with my S2K ✌🏻

[@Mavairo]

@@SamFirthDesigner I'd love to take my C4, or maybe my LH2 supercharged swapped Formula...

[@Zlowmoo]

The forehead to hair ratio of this video is in perfect balance.

[@jesuschristislord7754]

As all things should be.

[@ebol08]

hahahahhaha good one

[@jasongooden917]

Stop making fun of Jimmy Neutron. :)

[@andreassheriff]

Roman needs that surface area for cooling. The amount of energy his brain uses causes him to run hot. lol

[@TheWunder]

big brain

[@Maxjoker98]

0:10 "Paste Sniffing Enthusiast" Uhm, what? He's obviously a professional.

[@backupplan6058]

Least he’s been promoted since last time as the world’s second best overclocker.

[@ralanham76]

WOW I missed it

[@gaiustrollius9920]

Yes, professional booth destroyer.

[@HackionSTx]

@@backupplan6058 best Jimmy Neutron impersonator should be the next one.

[@RealRaynedance]

The air bubble thing is actually _the_ first argument I'd heard against spreading thermal paste before cooler mounting.

[@AstralS7orm]

It's silly. What can happen is that you will have too little paste in some place and a visible void instead, and somehow paste does not spread into it. That can also happen with other methods when you add too little paste.

[@RealRaynedance]

@@AstralS7orm Though is also avoidable with spreading _if_ you know what you're doing. If I remember correctly, that's the method GN uses for their cooler testing to get as consistent an application as they can.

[@johns1625]

It's best to spread and then when you gently set the cooler on and twist back and forth just a little bit to make sure it spreads onto the whole surface. It's only purpose is to fill scratches and voids in the contact surface so obviously you want it spread thin across the whole surface. When I update my CPU next I plan on hand lapping the spreader and cooler down to 1000 grit on a sheet of glass and then use 2 sheets of gold foil instead of compound all together.

[@LloydDunamis]

10:09 It's apparently called *Pump-out Effect.* It might be beneficial to rename this subtopic/timestamp. I'm learning about this 4 years after this video was published, as I look for my next thermal compound after my MX-4 bought on 2015 has finally been exhausted & fully used (read: empty syringe). MX-6's product page has stated the term, too, so that's helpful. Thank you for this deep dive!

[@leishathanthou9161]

How did you make it last that long omg

[@MrMmeter]

...how did they make a 20 min video about thermal paste fun and interesting??? That was great, thanks!

[@TheKb117]

coz you are a nerd.... how I know? coz I am, too! hahahha Time passes by when interesting tech stuff is talked about.

[@fusion4527]

I heard that air bubble "problem", maybe it's because I'm german lol.

[@RealDymondZ]

I heard that air bubble "problem", maybe it's because I'm german lol.

[@KacKLaPPeN23]

Same

[@kendokaaa]

I saw people mention it on reddit but that's because I'm always on reddit

[@More_Row]

Gianni Paoletti what is that?

[@lashyndragon]

@@Erksah68 can confirm. I actually use molten gold on my cpus

[@olevaar8995]

Air bubbles is an argument I've definitely heard a lot. Especially in application discusions. I mean there are plenty of videos on thermal compound application with plexiglass to show the differences, and I always assumed it made a difference, but it's nice to be corrected :)

[@Dseated]

Thanks for making this video. Reapplied my paste after 4 years and I'm seeing a 4-6 degree improvement. Keep up the great work!

[@seeenur]

Super informative videos and this is why I love GN. Great information here.

[@TechandTools1]

Agree, best detailed information out of all the big channels. I trust him more than anyone else.

[@jolness1]

Love this interview format. Steve is great about asking questions and leading people to keep information flowing. Would love to see GN do one of these a month, even if it is over phone or video chat.

[@jong2359]

This is an awesome interview... really nice to see such an honest and forthcoming manufacturer. You are NAILING these videos man... I really like the direction your channel is going, and how your representing yourself. Big respect to you.

[@MP_7]

Nice video, I like videos like this one where you talk with people who know their stuff and experts in a certain area, clearing out common misconceptions and stuff, and it’s always nice to hear Roman

[@jarodatkinson5306]

After this interview, Der8auer jumps into his Saab convertible with 90's techno blazing in my imagination....

[@RJT80]

That's every European and it's not just your imagination.

[@IceMan1709]

He own an GTR

[@hazi5961]

lmao! You win the internet for today.

[@fredEVOIX]

@@IceMan1709 ah yeah saw his t-shirt in a video, he's a maverick not driving Audi or BMW hehe

[@RandarTheBarbarian]

Nah SAAB isn't German enough, clearly it's an Audi or BMV. scandavians drive Saab..... Source: own a 90s SAAB

[@surferoftheweb9030]

Jesus Discusses Future Technology (Colourized: 2019)

[@cijoykjose]

No its like that incident in the bible ... Doing discussions and debate with theologists in the church .. then mary and joseph missed him and found him again after 3 days .. 😁

[@nextlifeonearth]

I'm conflicted by your spelling of colourised.... Like you use the British ou, but with a US z..

[@surferoftheweb9030]

@@nextlifeonearth 'Tis a paradox, for only the smartest to figure out And my FBI Agent

[@suntzu1409]

@@surferoftheweb9030 yes

[@miguelagueda3928]

It's always great to listen Roman talking about any topic. Very interesting video!

[@doufmech4323]

Needed this for my new PC build. Very informational. Thank you.

[@DasFish]

You can also use Elmer’s glue mixed with thermal paste for extra hold between the CPU and the brick. _“Screw-in with confidence, but don’t screw-in too hard.”_

[@CesarMartinez-wi7wc]

Why is this epic?

[@spazowacky]

I don't always screw-in but when i do, it's with a swiss army knife

[@grizzly6699]

Pass the tweezers there Stefan.

[@randomsomeguy156]

Your about page is just great

[@bluerune7305]

Lmfao... This meme will never die.

[@BillyONeal]

I wish Der8auer went into more detail on why you would want silicone based vs. not silicone based (e.g. why Hydronaut vs. Kryonaut) Great video, thanks!

[@BradleyK5]

Silicone based compounds are not electrically conductive, so if you have sensitive components you want to use silicone base compounds

[@BillyONeal]

@@BradleyK5 That would imply the opposite because Kryonaut is silicone based, and the supposedly more beginner friendly Hydronaut is not.

[@dougler500]

I was really surprised by the amount of info here! Great stuff. Ty Steve and der8auer.

[@OldRancher]

Good video GN and Der8auer. This video answered my questions, Thank You!

[@Thohean]

I've definitely heard and believed the "air bubble" thing. When Zalman used to supply thermal paste in bottles with brushes like nail polish, I'd spread the paste on both surfaces and never had any issues. I tend to just put a large blob in the middle, unless it's a really long cpu, then I do an X or X & square now.

[@boby]

@Gamers Nexus please more videos like this one, we need one for thermal pads too

[@prax3956]

Videos like this are super interesting. Y'all are awesome! Thanks for the content

[@organicwest]

Love watching both these guys. Really cool that Der8auer came to LTX.

[@handy5996]

Pump-Out Effect, that's it, so simple!!! Man you guys saved my weekend. I was struggling with an older delided CPU (i5-3570k) and a NH-D14, everytime I heated up the CPU for stability tests (~85°C) for hours, I got bad temperatures @ 2 cores by the time... I used the Noctua NH-1 thermal paste, it's liquid and not like powder. I ordered hydronaut, I hope it will help. Danke Steve & Roman! :D

[@t4iga121]

The point was mainly that you would have needed to replace your paste below the IHS a long time ago. Had you used qhydronaut it would have jush taken longer and wouldn't have been as bad yet, but your 3570k should, according to Roman be seeing bad Temps for the past few years now.

[@maxxammax0]

the 2 dudes i looked to when first started the pc building hobby, they did not disappoint witch is rare nowadays.

[@captaindaedalus1]

I know this is an old video, but I'm so glad you and DerBauer took the time to help us understand how thermal compounds work. Now I know which compound I should purchase. Thank you.

[@barral69]

Thanks for this video. There is a lot about thermal paste I didn't know that you covered here. Very helpful information. Thanks Steve and Der8auer!

[@georgf9279]

Video recommendation: Apply thermal paste to a piece of acrylic shaped like a cpu package (thicker die in the middle, thinner substrate around). Then mount another piece of acillic against it so people can see the spread through the acrilic. Repeat with different application methods.

[@SpuriousECG]

After seeing the foil wireframe shirt, I had to pick one up :)

[@TechandTools1]

Great video Steve, I really respect your opinions and all the hard work you put in to give us the best possible information. This was awesome watching you talk to Roman, that guy is extremely intelligent. Thank you for all you do for the PC community!

[@haikopaiko]

What a cool Q&A, thanks! Very interesting video about thermal paste / compound ✨

[@Iceberg936]

I have heard of the “air bubble” effect. I first heard it in 2007 when I first got into PC and started to build my own.

[@Reason_over_Dogma]

Der8auer has a stake in thermal grizzley 😲. Holy hell, this guy has his hands in everything! Shout out to him

[@gaknoia]

Best thing to come out of LTX is GN collabs

[@Fenix1861]

I like the format better than most of your others. It appeared much more comfortable and conversational than the ones with you and the guest standing for the interview, almost like late night tv. I would really enjoy seeing more interviews like this one.

[@paladingeorge6098]

Yes, I have heard the air bubble argument about thermal paste before.

[@ringsystemmusic]

Steve: grinding metal into powder is usually done with a ball mill, which is basically a barrel with aluminum oxide balls inside it that grind thick dust (produced via grinder of some form) into fine dust over time. It might also be able to be done with EDM machining, which is a super neat process, but i'm not even 25% sure on that.

[@VANDYKEDAN]

Electronic Dance Music CRUSHES!

[@ecromancer]

What did I learn today, pump out effect. This was very helpful! Thank you for this.

[@blueeyednick]

So good to see good youtubers do content together and do an interesting and insightful discussion

[@Chriva]

Some hardcore bromance right there :D

[@kenshinboy7797]

I really finished watching 20min video without skipping .

[@TheKb117]

skipping on this vid is like the bubble myth, it's non-existent. Especially for us tech-heads. :D

[@starrynayt]

I learned a lot today. Thanks Steve and Roman!

[@Sean-wv2xt]

Amazing video. I really didn't know half this info on thermal paste. Thanks Steve and Roman.

[@Repose_]

Just slather it on like peanut butter, thick and creamy.

[@theenhancer]

Instructions unclear, I have installed a sandwich.

[@thesilentobserver93]

What if I want crunchy though?

[@Bubba_Grimm]

@@thesilentobserver93 nope. Crunchy doesn't work....

[@backupplan6058]

Question, why does my computer now smell like peanut butter under load?

[@barongerhardt]

@@backupplan6058 The peanut butter overlord would like to talk to you about your peanut butter underload.

[@kmdsubs3148]

What does it say about me that I'm watching a 20 minute video about thermal paste And enjoying it.

[@rawdez_]

Paste Discussing Enthusiast

[@d4popov]

There were a lot of things I didn't know about thermal compounds. Thanks guys!

[@teazqt812]

Man I love you guys!

[@BorisChevreau]

Are you gonna review and test the Carbonaut pads soon? You briefly talked about it a few months ago at Computex with Der8auer and I was desperately hoping you'd mention it today! We want our graphs and schematics !

[@a_mouse6858]

One thing I've noticed anecdotally in my own testing is that the cooling performance of thermal paste seems to be time dependent after first installing it. Over the first 24 hours it gets better with time, eventually reaching a plateau. In all the testing reported by various folks on youtube (including GN), this effect does not seem to be highlighted, and I wonder what would happen to relative ranks of pastes if they are tested 24 hours after applying the paste.

[@bhume7535]

Thanks for signing my quadro 5000 steve! And thanks for signing the random HD 4650 I got der8aur! It was awesome meeting you both!

[@fwabble]

Love these guys

[@ivantimofeev2233]

Derbauer the paste sniffing enthusiast XD aay that had laughing for longer than I would like to admit

[@666Necropsy]

really good information. i learned a lot.

[@ceph591]

WoW great video guys, I've learnt so much about thermal paste and metals.

[@AJ-mv7ef]

Go watch techyescity's video about gd900 Thermal paste

[@DasFish]

I would advice using a considerable amount of Thermal Paste, and using the Constellation method of application. _“Screw-in with confidence, but don’t screw-in too hard.”_

[@aidanphillips2669]

Don’t forget the thermal paste spreader!

[@mangshu21]

The legend himself..

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

air bubble effect, assuming that the viscosity of air gets significantly more viscous than the thermal paste, lol. You may experience this effect at Sealevel if the air temp goes below -215c (58K or -355F), lol. I gues then the Q is, is a solid frozen chunk of air, a bubble, lol. Great vid Steve, Der8auer, and crews. B)

[@AstralS7orm]

Why would you apply the compound at such low temperature? It's not like the air will migrate into the compound somehow... You could have a void if somehow the paste solidified and cracked. This can happen with huge negative temperature thermal cycling.

[@marcecobaya]

Really informative video liked a lot

[@andywood2012]

I hadn't realised how much an expert der8auer is, it made this a facinating and very informative interview.

[@TheCXTKRS1]

Neat I'm about to buy a tube of Kryonaut but now with a revamp coming out I'll hold off for a month or two.

[@czdaniel1]

I just purchased two tubes, so you can have some of mine

[@humeyboy]

I hope it is easier to spread as its dry as hell, bit better if you heat it 1st, I ended up using the Liquid Metal in the end.

[@flusck]

Yeah I still got mine sitting there unused for over a year now. But I doubt the new one is going to be a huge step forward, probably just better in terms of application/usability.

[@filippocld]

Well, avout the fact that sometime paste improves performance overtime: even with kryonaut i noticed that i get the best temperatures after a couple of days. Perhaps it's because of the thinning

[@JLMtime]

I want more of these videos please go into EVERY single little aspect

[@BillyC500]

Very informative! Good stuff!

[@Poliacido]

Paste sniffing enthusiast lol

[@elham7459]

*Sniffing intensifies*

[@julian_handpan]

Sniffs in binary!

[@powerzx]

Air bubble problem is not a myth. Long time ago (about 20 years ago) you could buy cheap low quality thermal pastes which were very hard to spread, because of wrong material proportions (metal to oil). People had to use metal items to spread them, because credit card wasn't hard enough to do it. Those hard pastes were not only seen in Germany, I saw them in other countries too.

[@phatboycd1]

Ok I thought this was going to be boring but it turns out to be quite informative . I watched it all the way to the end. Thanks

[@DaPoets]

This was very helpful, thank you!

[@NorthsideChamps16]

I hope Steve and everyone at GN realizes what a resource they are to the PC community. Especially for new people like myself.

[@kBitre]

couldn't make out what was said in the outro or outtake, but maybe its for the best :D

[@Wladzio1410]

Love you guys ❤

[@dgraves14]

great video and awesome GN shirt!

[@outwar6010]

Did he give you any carbonaut for testing?

[@AspectStudio]

You guys shot this video in a box while being shipped to LTX, didn't you?

[@user-MrsYT]

seeeehr interessant, danke GN :)

[@naujadiena]

Useful information, thanks.

[@blarbful]

I've heard of the air bubble comment. On ModernVintageGamer's xbox refurbish video lol.

[@randomsomeguy156]

I see you're a man of culture too

[@StatusQuo209]

Also TekSyndicate did a video on it and tested the theory. Seems to prove that air bubbles are real.

[@jeyendeoso]

11:54 "dont spread your thermal compound it generates air bubbles" was a very common thing to say back in the day. I think it probably generated from a video on youtube called "How thermal compound spreads" where a person is using a piece of acryllic to show how different aplication methods (pea method, line, spread etc) look like. Nowadays its been tested many times that the application (or hell, even quantity) doesnt matter much, so people stopped saying that everywhere (there are still a lot of comments about its too much paste though).

[@MGmirkin]

You mean this one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6q7fahngthgp5Y Would honestly like to see the penta-dot or "dice" method shown with acrylic. I suspect it gets great coverage. I think that's what I did when doing my last re-install...

[@MGmirkin]

This is pretty cool, too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH_Ph5qaa9-FhqM Honestly, there's probably no super-"wrong" way to apply thermal paste... ;) As I suspected, the penta-dot method works fine. Personally I'd have spaced them out a tiny bit further, just to make sure they covered each quadrant and went out the corners. But, it seems like it all worked fine and still just turned into your standard "circle/square" of paste. Ohh, I guess he did a larger square dots one later, and yeah, it pretty much covered everything... :)

[@Papzt89]

I fucking love these guys. Always a pleasure to watch

[@shALKE]

Amazing video! Thank you!

[@furiouscabbage5741]

I'm still using some old arctic silver 5 and it works great :P

[@muskyelondragon]

Me too, no complaints

[@MafiaboysWorld]

Nothing beats the OG of paste. 👍

[@VANDYKEDAN]

Arctic Silver 5 baby!!! I have a large tube.

[@sp00n]

I just replaced my one year old AS5 on my CPU with Kryonaut, and the temperatures dropped by 4°C under load. I'm okay with that. 😉

[@delroyshay5870]

It contains real particles of silver, tested in a lab some years ago.

[@19971997gt]

You guys are so cute together. My favorite tech couple. Sorry Kyle from bitwit. ✌️🇨🇦

[@jpitt916]

Steve, great video, seems like a real synergy was happening at LTX.

[@ThrowingStones32]

Awesome meeting and discussion.

[@AspectStudio]

Thermal paste is everything to me. My love for thermal paste is almost illegal.

[@heytheresakitty]

Y'all are in a booth at the airport food court aren't ya?

[@wildosvt]

I enjoy the friendly jabs. Always good.

[@bravadoavocado2382]

thank you, this video was so informative

[@garethevans9789]

Speaking of thermals, do you guys ever experiment with directing airflow/ ducting? It seems cooling solutions are getting ever more advanced (expensive) even though the TDP has barely changed in the last decade. If air just goes through the case without coming close to components & radiators it is largely pointless, so is air coming out of the computer that is cool/ near room temp as it isn't being utilised (removing heat). Worse still is that watercooling often removes the turbulent airflow around the socket, making things like the VRMs & RAM run hotter. Same goes for the chipset & M.2 drives needing extra cooling because of the largely stagnant airflow around these components. Or a GPU that exhausts hot air out the back of the case without having to resort to loud blowers. Most servers and laptops use ducting as standard (they often have to). As do many OEM PCs so they can get away with as few fans/ heatsinks as possible. Yet this seems I don't think this would be hard for case manufacturers to implement, or even selling kits. Plus, cases are beginning to have 'thermal zones' so the next step is directing airflow to exactly where it is needed.

[@andreassheriff]

It sounds like Roman is saying "The Popov Effect," like Popov Vodka.

[@bossussuh]

I always like the Steve and Roman combo videos.

[@bhoot1702]

Most amazing video on KZbin

[@StefanEtienneTheVerrgeRep]

Finally, Thermal Paste gets the credit it deserves. I can't get enough thermal paste, I love it. People don't realize the gAINS you can achieve by switching to a higher mhz thermal paste.

[@badkarma11111]

Dude stop it, "higher mhz thermal paste" lol

[@Azrael2k8]

Judging by the Thumbnail you should be able to answer this. Can Thermal Grizzly be used as lube?

[@f4zkh4n]

can confirm. had to delid my gf first though.

[@megapro125]

@@f4zkh4n It's funny cause in Germany we say we behead a CPU instead of delid.

[@f4zkh4n]

@@megapro125 instructions unclear. how do i 'rehead'? will white wine get these stains out?

[@mumar100]

Really interesting insights, thanks

[@tech__hardware3961]

Great Video!