[Design Talk] Highly Dynamic Incentives, a game design cheat code

A great way of encouraging Gut Calls. With foreword from guest lecturers Beth and Jess. Here's that Jonas Tyroller video mentioned: • How to make your game ...

[@latte4159]

Thank you so much for starting off showing the kittens

[@nitpicker42]

We got a sniff from Jess!

[@andysimons]

The priorities on this video are superb

[@peezieforestem5078]

5:59 The designer of "Will you snail?" is Jonas Tyroller

[@StephenKatt]

I resonated with what you said about dynamic incentives reinforcing theme. And I think it's partly because good storytelling involves similar dynamics. Choices arise that force the characters to define what sort of journey they'll pursue. Sometimes the choice they didn't make also matters. And as the story progresses, the listener/reader can feel that the characters are approaching unavoidable choices, that a confrontation is inevitable. Plenty of games seem to use a negative version of this for difficulty. In Hades, you could choose to fight the final boss early or keep choosing additional encounters in order to possibly build your power higher before the boss. But if things don't go well, you might lose too much health and not be able to handle the boss. So the incentive to just move on builds and builds, but the specifics of the run can give you different incentives each time, maintaining the interesting choice, most of the time.

[@stevelee_gamedev]

Game design videos also featuring cats is the future

[@artcadedev]

Got it right exactly when I needed it

[@qwaffles_]

while designing and trying to balance something tricky, or adjusting anything that feels like it has to be done just right because it's tricky to think about, it's a good idea to think "can i make this a part of the game? can i make this decision making fun for the player, instead of a difficult thing for me to design?" this is applicable much more generally than adjusting values; I've been working on this board game where how the board starts affects the game a lot, and I was having a hard time thinking of what would be the best way to lay things out, and then it hit me: I could just add a setup phase! now instead of having to design the perfect setup that will let the game emerge in many directions, it can just happen naturally from the variety of this added phase!!

[@AndrewKay]

I prefer if instead of the incentive changing, the situation does, such that something which usually isn't worth it becomes worth it sometimes. Keeping on the theme of multiplayer games, Dominion does this excellently: there are cards which are usually good, and cards which are usually bad, but each time you play, there is a different set of cards to choose from, and "bad" cards can become good if the right combination of other cards are available to work together. For example, Scout (+1 Action, reveal the top four cards of your deck, put any Victory cards into your hand and put the rest back in any order) is widely regarded as one of the worst cards, but in the occasional game you have a deck full of dual-type Victory cards which you want to draw because they do useful things, and/or a bunch of cards like Mystic which benefit greatly from knowing what's on your deck in what order. The interesting strategy in Dominion comes from figuring out each game which of the cards work best together. If cards were self-balancing, such that their price or value changed throughout the game until someone bought them, then most cards would get used in most games, and the game would become an auction every time you play.

[@nitpicker42]

At least the last two generations of the Twilight Imperium board game have used this kind of incentive as a way to "balance" the 8 Strategy cards from which players choose each round - 1 or more cards will go unchosen each round (unless you have exactly 4 or 8 players), and the unchosen cards will gain an extra incentive each time they're unchosen. It's always interesting watching players waffle between taking Warfare or Technology *again*, or picking up Diplomacy because with 3 tokens it's worth it for their economy

[@argonaut999]

Dune Imperium is all about foreseeing whether the opportunity cost of your actions is worth the long-term benefit? who designed this thing, the freakin Bene Gesserit???

Our plans are measured in centuries lil bro

[@fusedtoast5367]

Are you working on anything! You helped me get into gamemaker. That was awesome.

[@HypoceeYT]

Not related to the core thesis, but your example of movement restriction adding drama to a twin-stick shooter brought to mind something I posted to friends in 2022. Yes, I'm sure the first game to figure this out was decades ago. Neophyte is $1 and calling it a roguelike is a stretch; it's randomized and an arena shooter in a square. But fine. Also, only one class and one biome/tile/enemy set. You start off with the same two spells every time :/ But! This guy knows how to present build choices and the opportunity for satisfying synergies. The fact that everything's a spell and you generally stand still when casting is a little stroke of genius, forcing you to make tactical decisions instead of Crimsonland/Geometry Wars/Serious Sam's decision-poor generally backwards or towards open space run. Adding restrictions to movement also hugely buffs armor and damage reduction skills, which in so many games are for babies because it's mathematically trivial to prove that maximizing damage output is optimal.

[@OutbackCatgirl]

kittieeeessss

[@thepanta_82]

You forgot to link the other video

[@Anerisian]

Jonas Tyroller: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWauYainnd2aqac

[@Pentadact]

Whoops, done now!

[@bubkabu]

have been watching these for years. i wished you used a slightly better microphone.

[@Nebby_99]

Speaking as a less frequent uploader, every bit of friction I add to my recording process makes me less likely to actually record something. So that may be part of why the mic isn't great.

[@wunarg8071]

Not sure how this type of incentive can be implemented well for most roguelikes. If the incentives are kept in one run like STS, not picking a card adds 30 gold to it when offered next time in that run, then thats unlikely to even matter since mostbroguelikes have high variety and so the card may not even be offered again. If its kept between runs it leads to awfull min maxing where you can prepare for a good run by doing a bunch of runs only picking up bad cards so that in future runs the cards which are already good also have additional rewards. Of course thats not usefull if the player is going for overeall win rate, but many players will go for beating one difficult challenge (like ascension 20) or having one crazy run. And even if they dont abuse the system like that, it will stay in their minds and make normal losses feel like the result of not abusing that system which makes the losses feel worse or even undeserved or annoying.

[@TeHzoAr]

plastic water bottle and plastic ice cubes. you're cooked bro

[@AlastairGames]

I store my water in copper and use a water distiller.