Collectibles - How To Make Chores Fun In Games

[@notanotaku1101]

You know one of the collectables I most remember? The studs from the Lego games. There was something incredibly satisfying about the sound of the meter filling up to 100% at the end of a stage.

[@dylanenriguehuntington2908]

Very true

[@henryR2006]

and the fact that you can't and aren't supposed to collect them all. It makes it so you don't need a guide to complete it, just go around smashing and having fun. Truly the best collectable

[@matthewrease2376]

True Jedi

[@no-lifenoah7861]

@@matthewrease2376 Pirate Legend

[@boomfanfic-a-latta8996]

SAME

[@OraDubStronzate2]

As a collectible, i love the Grubs in Hollow Knight. You get money, a charm and something else if you find them (so immediate reward, and not only if you find them all) but also, as you progress and you see them, you start to care for this tiny things. You hear them cry, and you want to rescue them. You are invested in finding collectibles because slowly you forget that they are collectibles, and you just want them to be reunited with their papa.

[@psinjo]

On top of that, there's an in world way to find the ones you're missing. After i was playing for around 20~ hours, i was getting a little tired of searching for them, just looking for a few stragglers. It was one of those ones where "i could just keep running in circles... or I could look up the wiki... but that feels like cheating" And then I ran into the collector, a boss in the game that I found moderatly difficult on my first run, but the reward gives you a map for "all of the grubs he knows about and couldn't get yet" I absolutely loved this diagetic way to 'look up' the locations without having to resort to the wiki, and it didn't feel like cheating either, because I had to beat the boss to get it, and at the time, i was only around 5 grubs short.

[@WizardOfDocs]

The payoff to the grubs is weirdly unsatisfying though. Did the elder grub eat them? Are they going to metamorphose and emerge as a new generation of moth people? When you dream nail them and it says “happy,” who is it speaking for? And what does the charm description mean about “the next stage of their life”? It really kills the mood of this otherwise unusually hopeful quest to realize at the end that you don’t know whether you did the right thing. Then again, Hollow Knight is a Dark Soul and we should have expected this.

[@SonnyFRST]

And then you get to the Grub Mimics, and this fetch quest gets 2 more layers of nuance.

[@naobi666]

@@WizardOfDocs afaik he swallows them so they can go through metamorphosis and become grubberflies, and the sad part is he'll die from it

[@MuttFitness]

It would be easier to forget they are a collectible if a dude called the collector (or whatever) wasn't the one who collected them.

[@waterinmyotter6245]

I’m surprised you mentioned Pokémon without talking about it’s biggest problem; the tradition of releasing two versions of each game makes your ability to complete your collection is dependent on other people. It doesn’t matter how good or invested you are, if you can’t find that one person who’ll trade a certain Pokemon with you then you can’t 100% the game.

[@smashcuash]

But... that was the purpose of the game. Socialize

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@smashcuash Really? I thought the purpose of the games was to "catch 'em all" or to "BE THE VERY BEST, LIKE NO ONE EVER WAS". In fact, outside of the anime abusing the power of friendship (because Shonen), there's really never a point where any character is positively socializing. And even in the anime, the power of friendship is between the pokemon and the trainer, not between pokemon and pokemon or trainer and trainer. And I know I made the pokemon theme music joke, but even that drives home that it's about adventuring, not socializing. "I will travel across the land, searching far and wide, teaching pokemon to understand, the power that's inside". The closest that it gets is "Oh you're my best friend" and "there's no better team" but even then, those drive home the bond between pokemon and trainer.

[@1TieDye1]

@@smashcuashno, definitely not

[@JayWithABeanie]

​@@1TieDye1 If you don't know, don't act like you do 😝 Pokémon was made to be a game you play and trade in with friends.

[@Americansikkunt]

@@deadersurvival4716it wasn’t about socializing, it was about selling the trade-cable….

[@Stephen-Fox]

I think a special note on collectables has to be given to DiscRoom. The enemies in the game? Circular saws which kill you. The levels in the game? Arcade-style things that inevitably end when you die, with a high score table for each one tied to how long you last. The only collectable in the game? The circular saws. Which you collect by being killed by them.

[@benedict6962]

Yeah, it's a very simple twist that blows your mind if you've gotten used to dozens of collectathons.

[@coreymyers5321]

Is there a completion bonus for watching all Design Doc episodes?

[@ArmageddonD11]

Warbot personally comes to your house and collects your soul.

[@DesignDoc]

You get a heart from me. Keep refrigerated.

[@jordanchicksen]

It’s more about the journey than the destination, intrinsically gratifying.

[@Meganiumfan888]

A secret boss against the subscribe button

[@someguywithamic9]

I'm surprised that Ape Escape wasn't on here. Collecting the monekys using all gadgets and player knowledge, and how each monkey protests a unique challenge. In Ape Escape 3 each monkey had a something extra tied to it. And then also eventually playing the Metal Gear Solid mini game (which got me into the metal gear series)

[@mxp4se]

That's true, you can literally blind rush your way and get the monkeys you need to clear each stage, the game doesn't even force you to get certain monkeys, you just catch the ones you wanna. Also there's a lot of depth in understanding how every monkey behaves and what's the best strategy to actually catch them, thing like blue pants are faster and get scared easily or red pant are agressive and will confront u.

[@deoxxys]

Too bad its not really made readily available on too many different systems.

[@Calvados656]

@@deoxxys Agreed. Wish they would do an Ape Escape Trilogy and release it on PC at least (obviously they would release it on Playstation as its the series home console). Would be nice to have on Xbox or Switch but Im not gonna hold my breath on that one...

[@raulmojarro9427]

God, I still have nightmares about Sonic Advance 2's system.

[@Trimint123]

Not only for going for those A ranks on every stage on all 5 missions (some are sucks than the others), you being forced to do grinding for those Chao Garden emblems.

[@AsianRailgun]

@@Trimint123 That doesn't exist in the Advance games, you're referring to the Adventure games.

[@LiatKolink]

I damn love SA2, but the collectibles are shit. Damn.

[@philgaimz9847]

I just played Mario Sunshine for the first time recently, and while a lot of people complain about its controls and such, my least favorite thing about the game was actually its condition for unlocking the final level. For someone who just wants to beat the game and not 100% it, that makes all the Delfino shines (not to mention the blue coins) completely useless. On a different note, I love collecting all of the spheres in Kirby's Return to Dreamland. They're all placed pretty well, and there are some really good incentives for collecting them. Plus that game is just fun to play.

[@cattysplat]

Sunshine has a big difficulty spike on the later levels and all of those "classic" Fludd free levels. The Blue coins however were pure bull. Mario games pride themselves in everything being signposted or have a clue showing you where to go to find what you need. There are no clues to blue coins, you just randomly check every spot, kill every enemy and pound the ground in random places to hope you get lucky, it's seems bizarre if you compare the red coins have structure and clarity to them, then the blue coins are just complete random bull.

[@Iinneus]

I genuinely cannot believe the complete LACK of reward for anything in Mario Sunshine. 64 doesn't need a reward-- every single Star (well, with the exception of one) _can_ contribute to a normal, 70-star playthrough of the game. Even if you NEVER get, say... Tricky Triangles in Rainbow Ride, it doesn't matter, because you know that theoretically you could, and you know the purpose of doing so. But what about, say... the poison river in Sunshine? It does not serve a purpose. If you don't get it, you lose nothing. If you get it, you gain nothing. And some of the levels are SO hard without feeling like true tests of your skill. Pachinko level doesn't feel like "I want to overcome this because I want to test my skills", it's just frustration that I've only seen, say, streamers or Let's Players do for the sake of showing it off.

[@N12015]

The issues with Mario Sunshine's controls are, ironically, that *they are too good.* That means your fingers sliding just a tiny bit can make you reset the whole level due to starting a dash on the wrong direction, which isn't a thing on other Mario games. Spin jumps is a very cool technique who rewards your mastery but i (and many people as well) would rather prefer realistic, controlable momentum on my 3D platformer. And that's why I consider Sunshine a 7.5/10 in a franchise full of 8.5-9.5/10 games.

[@jaretco6423]

The worst part is that most of the level designs & missions in Sunshine are even more obnoxious & repetitive and combined with forced completing 7 main missions, it makes the game alot more frustrating and tedious than in 64.

[@littleevsamoyed7130]

I like sunshine

[@Sjono]

16:06 “Sonic isn’t built to explore.” Giant Rings in Sonic 3&K and Sonic Mania: “Ahem”

[@baboon_baboon_baboon]

Sonic is definitely meant to explore. Sonic Heroes is another good example IMO. I think the issue with Sonic Advance is the small screen otherwise projecting different paths would be notably easier.

[@bryce7344]

I was expecting to hear how Yooka-Laylee failed to understand Banjo-Kazooie’s Musical Notes by hiding it’s equivalent in a way similar to Crash 4’s crates. But the same concept was explained throughout the video anyway.

[@QueenCloveroftheice]

“Breath of the Wild isn’t a game you’re meant to 100%” *sweats*

[@maxrn3923]

I have 1000% lol

[@baconlabs]

A Design Doc a day keeps the apple away! Or, something like that.

[@cecillewolters1995]

No apples seen today, wow! :o

[@americanduckling]

I thought it was "Design Docs are thicker than water"

[@logandunlap9156]

yawn

[@simondasilva]

One thing I do like about Psychonauts collectables are the memory vaults. Tying your understanding of the person the level is based on to exploration is a really great idea. Shame those are the most limited collectibles, would love some more optional lore.

[@tristanneal9552]

Love the "A Short Hike" music. Playing that game right now and it's just so nice and wholesome, very charming world and dialogue. On sale on Switch rn too!

[@Ikcatcher]

The best kind of collectibles are the ones that don’t feel like one

[@GGreenHeart]

Exactly this. A good collectathon is fun because the journey you take to collect things is fun, instead of just a chore for the sake of completion.

[@jasonreed7522]

The best collectables feel like loot and not like cleaning the map. As soon as it becomes frustrating for minimal reward its work and not fun.

[@TheSydneyLad]

I've heard that kind of description for collectibles. What are some examples of games would you say follow that description?

[@MattTheHuman9]

That's probably why Ape Escape is so satisfying. The monkeys feel like enemies rather than collectibles so you don't really notice they're collectibles.

[@samsundertail6564]

Like the Maiamis(I hope I spelt that right)in A Link between Worlds?

[@Flaming_Saturn]

As someone who plans on becoming a game designer, this helps out a lot!

[@JayAreAitch]

...implying today's industry expects game designers to care about good design.

[@Flaming_Saturn]

@@JayAreAitch What do you mean by that?

[@sonicx1298]

Is it weird that I watch these videos without the intention of being a video game designer?

[@naobi666]

@@sonicx1298 nah

[@JayAreAitch]

@@Flaming_Saturn Modern gaming is shit and actual game design is secondary to graphics/being cinematic.

[@eimazd]

Genshin Impact also does collectibles well. In both the Mondstadt and Liyue areas, there are numerous timer challenges, "follow this blue spirte" seelie statues, beautiful vantage points, and there's probably at least 1000 treasure chests across the entire map (so far! More of the world has yet to be revealed). And, they all provide a mixture of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. With a huge map, the purpose is to just explore, see what's around, climb everything, etc. Seelies are a lovely little distraction where you follow a little blue spirit for a bit, timer challenges are fun challenges (except when enemies spawn to freeze you), and chests are hidden in easily-overlooked areas as well as behind unmarked challenges - deciphering a poem, setting some torches ablaze, etc. The rewards from these serve as an extrinsic reward to doing something that's generally already intrinsically fun and engaging. At the same time, they're all incredibly optional. Sure, they give you money, things to enhance stuff with, etc., but the game is based around the stories found in quests, which guide you on the map from point to point. The only thing that you simply cannot get without completing challenges, following seelie, and opening chests... are achievements (and none of those achievements require 100%, either). And even for the achievement hunters and completionists, after doing a number of quests to help out the citizens of Mondstadt or Liyue, you unlock a treasure compass, which points you to nearby treasure chests - since there's so many of them, it's easy to miss a few.

[@TheLemonyBard]

Love the inclusion of A Short Hike! It deserves so much love.

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

The Knick-knackatory side quest in the Dragon Quest 5 remakes deserve a mention. It's a purely intrinsic quest that consist of collecting rare souvenirs for all around the world, and exposing them on a Museum. It's pretty extensive too, with way to upgrade and clean items. While some of the items you get may be of value (most notably an infinite source of Yggdrasil Leaf), most of the items are absolutely useless. It's just a reward for exploring the game and returning to old locations. The best thing is that it's not a single linear subquests, but a multitude of smaller goals, so you can take the quest any way you want. Anytime you need to take a break for the actions, you can look around for Knick Knacks in previously visited places.

[@piguyalamode164]

One great thing about Celeste's collectables is that it is totally possible to get 100% just playing through each level 1 time(and get it's secret collectibles on the second playthrough of each level) and if you miss a couple it will tell you how many and allow you to see which checkpoint you missed them on for strawberries, so you can easily go back for them. So, Celeste not only sets up it's intrinsic collectables well, it also makes collecting them no more frustrating than necessary. Even in cases where it definitely didn't have to go to that effort(the chapter 7 crystal heart remembers your progress on the gems even after you beat the stage) For the collectables that aren't noted on the map(Crystal hearts and b-side tapes) the game does a decent job at letting you know they exist. One clever thing chapter 1 does is that it has a strawberry right next to the crystal heart puzzle, so if you go through the level without finding that puzzle you'll be missing a strawberry. And if you go back and try to find that berry, eventually you'll find the puzzle along with it. The b-side tape's location is very clearly signaled and that signal is also next to a berry so you'll probably find that too if you look for all the berries. Chapter 3 also does this very well, with the b-side tape being in an exceedingly obvious place and the crystal heart just requires a basic understanding of how that section of the game works and finding the fairly obvious spot where the path is blocked by something you need to clear. Chapter 4's crystal heart is somewhat findable for the adventurous. And, if you do miss those hearts, you are probably going to find one of the heart pieces in chapter 7.

[@catandcomparator]

Yes, Celeste's collectables are great!

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

No shit every collectable in platformsrs are like this

[@flikkie72]

DQXI's mini medal hunt really motivates exploring every single dungeon, city, etc you come across and break all pots and barrels and check all closets. Also the bookcases which have recipes for crafting equiipment (which are generally stronger than shop found goodies) are mixed in with lore, which was extremely motivating for me to read up on all the world-building that the team had done!

[@TeamSoraPresents]

Something else I think would be great to discuss in a Part 2, is the idea of collectibles having a "purpose". Take currencies, for example: In many early games, especially side-scrollers like Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog, Coins/Rings were just a means of earning 1-UPs or improving your score. In Sonic's case, Rings were also tied directly to the health system; get hit, and you lose ALL your Rings, get hit when you don't have Rings, lose a life. Simple. In Sonic Unleashed, however, the role of Rings was expanded slightly. Since the premise of the game is a globe-trotting adventure, Rings could also be used as currency at various shops in the world, so you could buy things like souvenirs for the Gallery, like concept art and music tracks, and food, which give EXP when consumed, increasing your stats. However, the rules of Ring collection still apply (this *is* still a Sonic game, after all), so while the amount of Rings available in a given stage are much bigger, you still need to be careful not to lose it all, especially in the late-game. Thankfully, this only applies to the Daytime stages, since the Nighttime ones use a health-bar (that can be filled by grabbing Rings) instead. Of course, Mario Odyssey does something similar with Coins, with the added caveat of eliminating lives entirely.

[@Hypernukeleosis_]

Ghost of Tsushima was one of my favorite games of 2020, but it had a lot of collectables that ranged from locations, flags and cosmetics. Even though I love exploring the world, I wouldn't go out of my way to carefully search for flags or outfits, but the games wind guidance system was really well done. Instead of just drawing a line or putting a circle where an item was hidden, the wind would just blow in the direction of the closest thing you wanted, and anything you can find or discover was select-able. So instead of ignoring them, finding all the hidden flags became a fun diversion of searching thanks to being simply guided by the wind, it didn't hold my hand, but it also didn't give me no idea where to look, either.

[@jorlorlaggs9228]

I like how in Kirby and the forgotten land, they would give you some lore if you collect a figurine. Which figurine you get is random, except for the special ones. You would have to do a specific task to get those.

[@Brandon-ov1qi]

A Memory called Empire is an amazing book, one of the best I read in 2020.

[@SablePaintbrush]

Not sure how many people know this, but if you 100% Super Mario Galaxy's Luigi mode, you get one final level: home. Accessible to both bros, with a picture that gets saved to the original Wii for each. I used to do the jigsaw puzzle for them in the photo editor channel for ages. Was really sad that channel got removed for the Wii U.

[@pugflod]

Astro Bot Rescue Mission had some good collectibles. First are the missing bots, 5-6 is each stages that you rescue and add to your ship where you can see them walk around. Each world does have a required amount of bots rescued to unlock, but it doesn't need 100%. Next are the chameleons, 1 in each stage, which each unlock an optional challenge stage. The final part is the claw minigame, when you collect coins you can use them to play a claw minigame, getting special diorama pieces for your ship that you can play around with. Astro's Playroom also has a bunch of collectibles which serve more like easter-eggs.

[@yonatan4553]

I think Mario 3D world handled its collectables really well. It has three separate collectables: green stars (three per level), stamps (1 per level) and golden flagpoles (1 per level). Green stars are the only ones you actually have to collect, since you need a set amount of them to enter each world's Castle (which are required to beat in order to progress to the next world). Finding them isn't hard, but they each present a fun little challenge, and you'll rarely need to backtrack to get more stars, since the star limits to enter castle are really low, and the Captain Toad and Mystery House levels practically shower you with them. stamps are hiden in levels and just kind of cute, since they each have a different character or enemy on them, making them pretty fun to collect. the golden flagpole requires you to beat the level while reaching the tip of the flag, which a nice little challenge, and great for bragging rights in Multiplayer, which is how the game is best experienced. Overall, though these many collectables seem like a lot, they are pretty fun and natural to collect, and make the game a joy to 100% (also you need all of the collectables to reach champion's road)

[@helloojodi]

Animal Crossing's approach to collectible rewards by giving you little facts in the form of a pun is by far my favourite.

[@MattDustyParker]

Lovely video! Especially glad to see A short Hike referenced and its music used for your outro; one of the most delightful games I've played in the last year. Botw, odyssey, sonic advance 2, all very different when it comes to what the game wants from you. Super good video!

[@blakdeth]

I just thought of tokens in Pac man world 2. Sometimes they were a serious pain to find. Other times they were pretty easy. And the more you collected, the more arcade games unlocked in the arcade in level 0. Real world arcade games. And the final reward was Mrs. Pac man. I never actually found enough to get it, but I blame the levels on ghost island for that

[@mariocooper1996]

I can never collect them all due to it being difficult. I usually stop once I unlock the art museum in PAC-Village. Maybe if a newer port came with Achievements/trophies on a certain console, I’d be more motivated to attempt it. But whatever, PacMan World 2 is the best game of the trilogy.

[@CaioLoureiro]

I absolutely love the collectibles system in the LEGO games. You can buy tools to help you find them, and it rewards buying characters because you need specific types of characters to find some of them.

[@TheSydneyLad]

My favorite solution to the 'needle in a haystack' problem is Banjo-Kazooie's results screen. Other people may argue that it's too simple of a solution, brings gameplay to a total halt, takes you out of the experience to read a checklist, etc. All good points - but to me, it's simple and gets straight to the point. I'd argue that the limited level size is the reason why you don't need a hint system - unless you're like me in video games, in which you just have the worst luck and you just can't find that one thing that everybody else can find.

[@hpfred]

Something I think you could've commented on are the tools to help collect on BOTW, some of which are locked behind the DLC (released after people had already played a lot, and only for who paid). Yeah, the locator thing that beeps near shrines is VERY helpful, and the ability to add items to it is incredibly creative and useful. But things like the Korok Mask means you need to buy it, find it, and be using it (weak mask that stops you from using other helpful hats) to have slight help in locating the korok seeds. Another tool that's very helpful, but locked behind the DLC, is the one that marks everywhere you have transversed in the map. It helps a lot to see where you have already looked for the collectable, but "only" tracks 200h, which means when that DLC released, some people had already missed some of the track, and also when you are in late game looking for the last things, you've probably already lost the track of many places you have already explored too. A last tool, that is not DLC, isn't the biggest but is very usefull is the pins you can set with different drawings in the map. For me this system has two big problems: The first being that 100 pins quickly becomes not enough, even when you don't mark everything you can. The second problem, for me, is the drawings of the pins not being the most clear/useful; Yeah, the sword one is problably to mark where you can get a good sword, but most people won't care about marking that, so they might use it to mark something like the location of a Lynel, but then it becomes unclear what each mark is being used for, and not enought variety of drawings.

[@hpfred]

With this comment, now I realize you could probably make a whole video only on these tools from BOTW.

[@MaxNMotion]

My favorite type of rewards are lore. I’m extrinsically motivated in games; never cared much for collectibles that don’t offer something interesting. Lore and backstory for the game’s world or characters can be more meaningful and satisfying because it leaves the player with something to think about long after the game is over. For example, collecting a shine sprite may give you a brief moment of happiness, but discovering that Peter Parker’s parents were secret spies because you found a backpack on the docks of Manhattan holds far more emotion. God of War 4 is a great example; that game loves giving the player collectibles in the form of lore markers and stories from Mimir that tell you things about their world you would never find out via the main story, and has a lot of hints at what the story may be for future games.

[@watsonjunior85]

For me the biggest let down for a collectable is a point of no return just after a collectable that was not predictable

[@dakotadean1273]

I like the Garibs from Glover, they function as score pickups that also give health and lives. finding all in a world will unlock a bonus stage for even more lives completing all the stages in the game unlocks an in game cheat list, if you can't find some in a level you can search for them in easy mode just by holding a button!

[@MisterKabukiMask]

*Sees video* Me: Huh, do I like collectibles? *Looks at the Pokemon livingdex I'm working on* Me: Well...

[@skynet0912]

I like how the new Tomb Raider reboot games did collectables, as they sorta have two destinct "stages" for finding them... Stage one is just running around the games open areas as soon as you get to them, looking for all of them right away, but if you get stuck and have a few you simply can't find, you have the option to go a little further in the story, often exploring optional challenge tombs, and you will likely stumble on the areas treasure maps at some point, which points out where you need to go to find them, but still leaves HOW to get to them up to the player. One of the biggest offenders for being hard to find are the GPS caches, as they are tiny, and even when you unlock the ability to see collectables through walls and terrain, it's still very easy to overlook the golden glow they give off, so i always find myself missing 2 or 3 in each area, so instead of looking for them, i end up looking for the often out of the way, but easier to find treasure map for the area instead

[@adamabou-nasr1130]

I loved the djinn in Golden Sun. You encountered a few through the story, but most were hidden behind puzzles or exploration. The player could equip the djinn on characters however they wanted, mixing elements to unlock new spells or stacking elements to cast the most powerful versions of basic spells. The more you find, the more powerful you are for the final battle, but Golden Sun 2 lets you import your data from the first game, so all those djinn you found power you up in the next game, too

[@patrickrusso9919]

Sonic Adventure 2 had a fantastic reward for collecting all 120 emblems. Getting to play a (then) brand new concept of classic level in 3D was a huge surprise, not to mention unlocking further 2P options and skins as you progressed in the GCN edition

[@Evanz111]

Speaking of collectibles: Me and my brother used to hunt trophies all the time on PS3, even to the point of renting games specifically to platinum them! (including the Hannah Montana game, no kidding) - I just wish the points you for for trophies could be used to redeem exclusive outfits in games or themes for the console. Maybe even small discounts?

[@thefightinggameplayer]

Evanz111 That is pure dedication to trophy hunting there.

[@bigfudge2031]

The platinum time relics were the last staw on Crash 4 for me and my friend, we spent so many hours getting all the gems and completing all the flashback tapes and then couldn't even get the platinum relic on the first level, at some point you just get burnt out and it does just become a chore rather than fun.

[@megasoniczxx]

I do like how Ape Escape sort of flips the script on your usual collectathon. Instead of the apes being your reward after some kind of challenge, they ARE the challenge and everything else in between is typically your down time/ reward after managing to catch them which is satisfying in its own right. Special shoutouts go to the coins you collect throughout the game that you can exchange to get things like concept art, lore books, these really interesting one shot comic strips and, most importantly, Mesal Gear Solid ;)

[@نونيم-ي4ح]

The figments of imagination from Psychonauts is the my favorite simply due to the fact that each look unique and add environmental storytelling

[@goodenemy6852]

psychonauts is my favorite game and i've collected every single figment in the game multiple times and youre right theyre really hard to see sometimes and they can be really frustrating (especially during the race in millas dance party) but for some reason theyre also really satisfying to collect. honestly though the other collectables in the game (emotional baggage, scavenger hunt items, vaults, and brains) are definitely better and have more of a reward to them like more mental health and fun secrets

[@jasonreed7522]

The Pikmin series is a perfect collectable game. They are console RTS games based on using minions to collect treasure and kill enemies, and its adorable. In the some of the items are also upgrades like imunity for the player from certain damage (your pikmin minions are color coordinated for their abilities, which are fixed), or quality of life like a radar or proximity detector to collectables.

[@Evanz111]

This feels like an Adam Millard - The Architect of Games video! That’s a good thing! I love both your channels

[@psionichelmsman]

Hollow Knight has five major collectables: Essence, grubs, enemies, rancid eggs and artifacts. Essence is gained randomly from normal enemies, special dream warrior fights, special hunt challenges by striking soul trees and then collecting its fruit for a tad of lore. The rewards are upgrades or material for upgrades. (Material for upgrading your magic pool and weapon, as an example). It's also required for one of the endings and a heavily-challenging platforming area. If you don't want to collect all the essence, you don't have to! You'll get one of the other three endings for doing so. The grubs are not required, but give you a good amount of currency, power ups and it provides through an optional boss, a map to finding the ones you've missed. Once you find the Hunter, you get his journal, which gives you bits of information on your enemies and the ability to look more closely at their art. By completing it, you get recognition and a trophy from the Hunter. (Also many of the entries are funny). Rancid eggs are actually very useful, if not apparently so at face value. On the map for the first village is a locked door and inside is an NPC who can help you get your ghost back, say from a very awkward position that's dangerous to return to. If you fail to get your ghost back and die, you lose any money you carried when you died the first time. Confessor Jiji can help make recovery a lot less painful, but they are a finite resource. The only area that makes retrieval of your ghost back easy is the Colosseum of Fools, which has a room by the rest area where it always spawns when you inevitably die in a trial. By dying, your ghost not only carries your money, it cuts off a part of your mana pool. Getting it back and defeating it is in a player's best interest. Finally, the artifacts are sellables that always remain on your person even when you die. It's useful to hang onto until you need to make a big purchase once you've reached the seller who buys them.

[@Clownbelt-u2s]

There is also the bandages and warp zones in Super Meat boy. Bandages act as currency to buy characters that have a different moves that comes in handy with difficult areas ("Mr Minecraft" being able to place blocks and dig through terrain for example) while warp zones add a bit more challenge and give you the chance to achieve more characters (also, completion bonus).

[@a1goldenrunner]

My favorite collectible system is in Saints Row IV. There are a ton of collectibles everywhere and if you complete a side quest later in the game, you get a collectible finder to help you get what you missed.

[@PurpleFreezerPage]

What's funny to me is the seeming only issue to be had with optional collectibles is "going too far" and making them too annoying to get. But for me.. I feel that way about most games. Little big planet, crash 1, Mario Odyssey. Trying to 100%, or even 80% these games turns into a chore real quick.

[@dondashall]

The Messenger did it really well with its seals. First of all it's a fun take that you aren't actually collecting them - you are destroying them. But they are very well done. They start off as just optional harder platforming challenges (not unlike Strawberries in Celeste actually), but after you've gotten the first the shopkeeper tells you that if you get them all, you might get an overpowered weapon for it. So it's a mix of intrinsic and extrinsic. That's pretty good. I did most of them for just the intrinsic - they are extra challenges that were really fun (and sometimes frustrating) to complete. But there were a few (one especially that sticks in my mind) that were frustrating enough that if it wasn't for the extrinsic part I probably would have given up on it. But it would be a shame to do all of them except one and not see the reward so I hung in there. The reward isn't THAT overpowered, you get an upgrade to your shurikens (that isn't just stats btw, it fundamentally changes how the shuriken works), but it is a damn useful upgrade & I definitely got my use out of that one during the last stage & final boss. In fact I might not have defeated the final boss without it. One more point - they handled this much worse in the free DLC "picnic panic". There's a collectible there similar to the seals, which again fun platforming challenges. I completed them all just to be told I can't get the reward unless I play on NG+ (and you can't access Picnic Panic until after you've played enough of the base game again until it becomes a metroidvania).

[@kelly2001]

Thank you for talking about Sonic Advance 2. I resorted to using a guide as a kid and I used to feel guilty about it until I realized it was just bad game design! One collectible system I’ve always felt mixed about are the Kinstones in The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap. On one hand, it’s a really interesting concept how each Kinstone fusion permanently changes the world in a surprise way. It might unlock a secret area, cause an NPC to move to a new house or a new shop to appear, or spawn a special enemy that yields tons of Rupees when slayed. It really makes the world feel more complete and real, and it feels great to get a new batch of Kinstones and see what you’ll get when fusing them. On the other hand, Kinstone spawns are mostly random, and some of the rarer ones can take forever to grind out. You do get some from chests but otherwise have to cut a ton of grass, kill a bunch of enemies, and eat a lot of bread if you’re going for a complete run. It’s a unique system that unfortunately falls short due to the grind it requires, and I wish Kinstones had been tackled differently because they could’ve ended up being something amazing.

[@erikrodrigues9270]

sludge life is basically a game of "collecting" places to tag, its the only game (besides crash 2) that i enjoyed hunting/finding the collectibles, and the more you tag, more tools the game give you to help you find the last most hidden places.

[@thunderwolf1151]

personally, in terms of collectibles, i really liked the tetrominos (or "sigils" as the game calls them) from the talos principle. you get them for solving puzzles, and there are multiple rewards for getting them. the sigils come together to form a separate puzzle which unlocks new areas (with more puzzles), but also after getting a certain amount of them the terminals in the game will have updated, progressing the story and helping you to further unravel the mystery surrounding the game. this all works since even if you're not interested in the story, nearly all of the talos principle's puzzles are incredibly well made. they're challenging, engaging, and sometimes frustrating, but they always make you feel amazing for completing them. of course, this is all a nightmare if you hate puzzles, but it's a puzzle game. it's reasonable to assume the vast majority of people playing the game are people who love puzzles.

[@Ideabot_69]

This was a really interesting video, and very helpful. I'm an independent game developer. My first game is, in part, a 3D collect-a-thon and one of my main design goals is to create a deep and enjoyable movement system. To support this goal, there's a couple of different collectibles. Small, numerous "coins" and big, hard-to-get "stars" are the main collectibles, with "coins" being used as currency and "stars" being the keys to story progression. Obviously I'm not gonna call them coins and stars because coins and stars are Mario's collectibles, but I don't like to talk too much about the artistic design of the game on public forums because if I say my game is about a chicken collecting kernels of corn and golden eggs, then I run the risk of someone else making a game about a chicken collecting kernels of corn and golden eggs. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I deeply appreciate the hard work you put into this thoughtful analysis of a common game design tool. It's interesting to the game player side of me and useful to the game maker side of me.

[@PJTeesdale]

To this day, I still have not collected every single Korok seed in Breath of the Wild - but I honestly appreciate just how many of them there are. The player is never too far away from something to collect, but the player is also not forced to scour the entire map and get absolutely all of them in order to unlock all of the slots for weapons, shields, and bows. It kinda frustrates me a little when people complain that there are too many of them, as if making more of them required or reducing the overall number are really better options. Forcing the player to collect all of them in order to get all the slots would just be exhausting and pointless; what does the player need one more inventory slot for after seeing everything there is to see in the game? Likewise, reducing the number of Korok seeds in the world to just those necessary to get all the slots would still force the player to scour the entire world for them, but the whole experience would feel emptier and longer as a result. There are more of them than a player needs so that the player doesn't feel pressured to search absolutely everything. Unless they just want to.

[@jorloru]

Having a collectible tracker is so important, it's frustrating to walk all the map again and again looking for that one thing you missed. If it isn't a one by one tracker, at least a region tracker, so you know when a portion of the map is complete and you can stop searching there. Also, as a side note, one-way paths are the completionist's worst nightmare, please don't, if you put collectibles in a game and the levels are long don't make going back impossible unless you restart the level. I'm looking at you Quantum Break.

[@ge789]

When do you think it would be appropriate to give one of these collectible trackers to players in a game?

[@jorloru]

@@ge789 Well, when I say tracker I don't mean some feature that tells you "there is one", but rather a feature that tells you "that one, you already got it". I'm thinking for example in Okami, in that game you have to collect around 50 beads, but each of them has its own name and you can see them on the collectible menu so, when the time for 100% comes, you know exactly which ones you already have, and don't have to check if you already got those revisiting every place. In the other hand, in Breath of the Wild, if you want to 100% when you finish the game and pick up a korok seed guide (or not) you only know how many of the seeds you've already collected, but not which ones, so let's say you already had 300 out of 900, you will have to revisit those 300 locations just to check that you indeed got them. I think being able to track collectibles in this regard (not knowing where to look for but rather where you already did it) is always something positive in a game. However, literal trackers are also a good alternative, having some character mark on the map where you left something or having a feature that beeps when you are near a hidden collectible can be useful for the time when you only have a few collectibles left and can't figure out where else to look in the map. But this features can ruin the experience for the people who want to explore without any hints, so I would make these features always optional, giving the player the option to deactivate them once you got them in case you triggered them by accident. Do you have any other thoughts on this?

[@ge789]

Well, when you mentioned a tracker, my mind defaulted to the Clockwerk Eye in Sly 4, which makes a noise near the code bottles that open a safe in the area. However, this item is also found in a safe in the third area, so on one hand, it makes searching a little easier, but on the other hand, it’s useless if you open that safe last. I’ve been interested in collect-a-thons and was wondering whether or not to give the player a tracker/checklist to help them keep track of what items are where to avoid needless backtracking, around the time you obtain a new ability, let’s say halfway through the game.

[@jorloru]

@@ge789 That Sly 4 example sounds like a design flaw to me, I can't recall any particular example but I've seen similar cases where you're given a tool just when you don't need it anymore (or almost). In my opinion, a good point in the game to give a tracker to the player (or the option of having one) is when all the power-ups are unlocked, in other words, when the player has all the tools needed for getting every collectible they spot. You won't avoid needless backtracking if you tell the player where to look for but when they arrive they can't get the collectible. I'm not a designer though, just a completionist player, when the time comes every game has probably a 'best time' to give a tracker to the player based on the whole structure of the game.

[@derheadbanger9039]

I love the Kodamas in Nioh, they are fun to find, not too numerous and useful but optional (they let you customise item drops a bit) ... also they are cute! ^^

[@MtnSmithy]

The best worst thing about Donkey Kong 64's character-only collectible system is when you're colorblind, you're not even sure which Kong you need sometimes. There'll be moments where I see what I think are blue bananas, trek all the way to a Tag Barrel, come back with Lanky Kong, only to see that they're actual purple and I needed Tiny.

[@CthulhuianBunny]

Thank you for giving Banjo-Kazooie the respect it deserves, as refining the Mario 64 formula. One of my favorite collectables in gaming are the clue bottles from Sly 2. They're only in the hub world (so no need to worry about having to replay missions, like in the first game), they make a nice clinking sound to hint at where they are, and give you the combination to a safe with a new move. Plus, they have a very satisfying breaking sound when collected.

[@Stephen-Fox]

For lore as motivation for collecting things - Something I have noticed, comparing how I engage with Pokemon vs Monster Sanctuary - Pokemon? Getting new critters gives you a couple of sentences of lore about those critters. And I will read every single pokedex entry, and always have done. Monster Sanctuary? I'm having a good time with the game, don't get me wrong, but you get the game's equivalent of the pokedex after you've got 5-7 or so monsters, and each monster has four pages - not long pages, each about a paragraph or so long, and I think some cut off on the first line of the last one - and I just completely noped out of that system despite finding the lore dumps in Metroid Prime a compelling reason to Scan Everything. Hell, I read every entry I unlocked in the Star Ocean: Till The End of Time in game wiki which is, an in game lore document that unlocked entries whenever you saw the title of the entry mentioned anywhere in the game, including in the entries you were reading.

[@benedict6962]

Wait, so what was the problem with Monster Sanctuary?

[@Alche_mist]

@@benedict6962 I guess "too much reading compared to the gameplay". Which is what (through books) nulled me in Skyrim.

[@Stephen-Fox]

@@benedict6962 I'm not even 100% sure. It might be the lack of paragraph breaks in the first page, you getting it when you've captured about 5 monsters plus the 4 initial monsters making checking all the monsters in it when you first get it more daunting a task than it might otherwise be, or a combination of subtle factors. It might even be the use of a retro-pixelly font. I'm not sure what it is, but I bounced off of the in game lore text in a way I don't think I've ever done in a game with that sort of thing before.

[@ChocolatierRob]

The Jak and Daxter example is an interesting one. The intrinsic value of collecting each power cell is fairly high due to the assorted funny dances they do upon collection however the reward for collecting *all* of them is pretty insulting. Upon completing the game (which requires finding many but certainly not all of the power cells) you are given a scene where the characters find a mysterious door which will open if you insert all 101 collectible power cells, so back into the world you go to find any that you’ve missed. Once you return with them they all flashily leap onto the door, powering it up fully and in a blaze of light it opens up... and that’s it. The door opens. You don’t see through it, you don’t find out what is behind it, you don’t go _through_ it. All you get for your effort is a brief close up of the character’s faces as they look impressed at... something. At the start of the second game you find out what it was but your big reward in the first game - non existent.

[@XBusterZero]

I think one of my favorite collectible experiences was not exactly an original game, but a port. Sonic Adventure DX rewarded players with extra playable games (12 to be exact) by collecting the game's emblems and doing missions. As I had never played any of the Sega Master System/Game Gear games before, getting rewarded with an entirely new game every so often was a really good and addictive feeling. Another decent collectible is the heart tank and armor pieces from the Mega Man X series. Not only are some of them satisfying to find, but you likely WANT to find them so you'll be upgraded and won't die as easily. They enhance HP, defense and character abilities and who wouldn't want that?

[@TheAlpacalypseIsUponUs]

I like collectibles in hollow knight. Felt motivated to get grubs and charms mostly intrinsically but the extrinsic reward also help.

[@harrellj9812]

watching this video and thinking abt how speedruns of collectathons skip over them is always really fun

[@sanigarbo]

Great video! I'm not a completionist, so I've never put too much thought into collectibles, but I like how you broke it down. I also love the irony that gamification is often used to create chores for engaging - so the idea of gamifying a microcosm in game...

[@spikerthedragonbear]

Something that I love from most Sonic Colors red rings and some New Super Mario Bros Wii is that you can SEE the collectables but you still gotta find the path for it Incentivating you to get them and sometimes, even give you a general idea where they are when you do your main run

[@WizardOfDocs]

Are achievements a kind of collectible? I’ve been playing (and watching) a lot of Minecraft this year, and I’ve noticed that the advancement system is somewhere between a tutorial/in-game documentation and a collection list. Some advancements, like Sweet Dreams (making a bed and sleeping in it) are necessary for survival; some, like Ice Bucket Challenge (getting obsidian) are necessary for progression, and some, like How Did We Get Here (have every buff and debuff at once) are just for showing off. Minecraft mods do this to varying degrees of effectiveness: Botania is really good at explaining its advancements, while Nature’s Aura gets really vague about what to do to unlock new chapters in its documentation. And Tetra’s forge structures add an arcane and frustrating new collectible system on top of its underspecified advancements and lack of documentation.

[@A2forty]

Super Mario world has secret stages and secret routes that are only available if you find the keys and keyhole and bring the two together. It allows for dinner interesting challenges sometimes and it leads to more gameplay.

[@lyqosa]

First game I thought of was Sly Cooper. You already get powerups and abilities by defeating bosses, but you can get even more by collecting the clue bottles. It sort of gives you a taste of the reward to encourage you to keep collecting

[@zefer8831]

Golden Sun has a really good collectable system with its Djinns. A decent amount are given to you through story and as you collect them you can pass them around to your party members to unlock new abilities and skills. Because of this value, you want to find more Djinn, which are teased to you throughout the game as you can see some but not reach them until later with new abilities. I love Golden Sun

[@Reeniepie]

That Mario 64 water level music made me so nostalgic.

[@danielevans7439]

My favorite is still Spyro the Dragon 1. It plops you into the first hub world with no guidance. You can do the obvious thing and free the dragon directly in front of you, and he will give you some ideas of what to do. But you can also ignore freeing him entirely. But the best part is in the opening scene, where a dragon mentions they have “12,000 gems... or was it 14,000?” This immediately got me interested in collecting all the gems to find out, and I was rewarded for doing so, as the last 2,000 gems were a bonus level where Spyro can fly indefinitely. Spyro the Dragon 2 made an entire amusement park the reward for collecting everything, but even that wasn’t as exciting for me, as I knew what was coming and was in a sense herded to get there.

[@ShadowoftheDude]

An interesting psychological quirk when it comes to extrinsic versus intrinsic motivation: If you are already intrinsically motivated to complete a task, adding an additional extrinsic motivation can actually cancel out its effectiveness. Essentially, applying this to collectables, if you already wanted to collect the things in a game, but the game teaches you to expect a reward for collecting it, you will no longer be motivated on your own, you will need the promise of a reward or else you won’t do it. So it’s important when designing extrinsic motivation that a) the reward for collecting is always a surprise, and b) you don’t reward the player for every little thing they find. It’s most effective to give a bunch of rewards early on then have them slowly peter out.

[@Gatekid3]

Kingdom hearts 3. my take. the mickey emblems are actually a cool thing to collect, because it involves you to actually explore the worlds and lookout for hidden symbols and structures that look like Mickey at certain angles. And the worlds in kh3 being kind of linear allow you to know where missing stuff is because they are logged in order. It being one criteria for the ultimate weapon makes it worth doing too However, it these things dont apply in the big hero 6 world which is 2 large maps rather than a path to follow. And the other requirements for the ultimate weapon which involve several tedious optional minigames makes it annoying to want to do them all. I wanted to look for the emblems without a guide, but knowing i also had to do the slide minigame 10 plus times, the heartless minigames with different mechanics, and several battles in the optional gummi ship mode make it a chore that isnt as fun.

[@Cactussii]

Oh man Crash 4, I was so ready to love that game after platinuming the N sane trilogy but the first off-screen box was enough to make me put it down and never pick it back up. It felt so insulting after every other crash being so straight forward with its collectables.

[@NAFEDUDE]

for Crash 4, you forgot to mention the collectables for hitting every gem requirement without dying.

[@baboon_baboon_baboon]

Crash 4 was total nonsense

[@roelvermeulen1]

Guacamelee 1&2 also have great collectibles. They have super challenging parts that are completely optional, but make you feel like a god if you get it right. They also allow you to very quickly try again after dying, like in Super Meat Boy, which takes away some of the punishment of having to restart.

[@Grimzilla32]

I feel Darksiders 2 did collectibles very well. Each one, the Book of the Dead pages, Ostegoth's relics, & the Blackroots Stones, all give you different rewards overtime leading up to a MASSIVE reward in the end for each if you wanted to invest the time

[@regalternative]

The stars from Braid are a good example of a super difficult collectible that's only there for bragging rights

[@bananabike279]

Great video! Hearing music from A Short Hike brought back so many good memories... That game also does collectibles surprisingly well!

[@bluji1250]

I loved how the Celeste soundtrack started twinkling in the intrinsic incentive section way before you started talking about the game. Talk about noticeable leitmotifs...

[@Shrooblord]

Every time you bash Rayman 1, a wide grin spreads on my face. I grew up with that game and I love it to bits, and hearing your (legitimate!) concerns about it are great, in a sort of The Roast of Rayman 1 type of way. I understand completely how you feel, and although I don't agree (i.e. I personally think it's great fun to try and figure out where the hell all the Cages are, and also that some of that design lends itself to a sort of 'puzzle game' type gameplay loop), I can totally see how incorporating your point of view in my own thoughts about game designs are a healthy way to think about solving the problems that creating a game presents for its desginers.

[@skidiggydiggs4529]

For collectibles, I can't get enough of Majora's Mask. You don't HAVE to get every mask, heart piece, weapons upgrade or stray fairy in the game. But the game makes me WANT to. Masks are mostly presents for helping people (intrinsic motivation for me), heart pieces make Link stronger (extrinsic), and stray fairy upgrades unlock new attack, magic meter, sword and damage resistance. Plus, there's the Fierce Deitys' Mask. You need all the masks to get it. The promise of that mask alone is reason enough for me to do the less-pleasant side quests. I want that mask. Gotta have it. I want to be strong enough to take down Majora. Even if it means assembling a frog choir, fixing my mistakes on Anju/Kafei's quest, or remembering where I can find Shiro, the stone soldier. Cannot recommend highly enough. :)

[@Petrico94]

I enjoy Jak and Daxter and Mario 64's method of giving you a list of chores and after a certain number the game will progress or lead to new challenges. Jak also lets you collect orbs along the way so even when you're just moving you are making progress towards another primary collectable, sort of like gems in Spyro which can relate to more progress or Moneybags' checkpoints. Most collectables should be easy to get to so you can skip the particularly hard ones, but you can also keep at the harder challenges for some excitement. It's also an interesting idea to add mechanics to collecting the items like more powers or increased stats. Again I think most should be optional, Super Metroid is a good example of getting stronger for exploring and opening more areas with most upgrades but the rocket expansions are easily skipped over, but also I feel there should be some suits or powers you could skip over and still complete the game. The real limiter is specific bosses but they do block off certain upgrades that get you into other areas.

[@MrLuigiBean1]

The A Short Hike music at the end. 👌🏼

[@Calvados656]

Something Ive always liked personally but seen rarely is a gallery with character concepts, storyboards, concept art and stuff from the devs about character/enemy/location inspiration. Unlocking stuff like that to me can be fun and worth it for a game Im really enjoying.

[@Teflora]

I smiled at the crosscode clip at the beginning :)

[@EvilParagon4]

Personally I think the best collectible in all of gaming is feathers in AC2. There's no map markers to help you, you have to go out of your way to get them. Characters (Mario) tells you to stop trying since your mother isn't getting better. They have symbolic value to the plot as Ezio's brother collected them and then was suddenly killed. And your reward for getting them all? Your mother thanking you for not giving up on her (she's mute the entire game past the prologue except this one instance), as well as a cape that serves as nothing but to make you instantly a criminal all over Italy, with no means of lowering notoriety, effectively, a useless item. (As well as an achievement but only on the Xbox and PS versions). The player collects the feathers because they want to. AC2 also gave us big world building puzzle collectibles that were fun to solve and very rewarding to see just a fraction of a second of the total video they were unlocking. It's impressive considering that the first game in the series, literally the one just before it, had some of the worst collectibles in all of gaming.

[@EMPenergy]

Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom had a similar if not the same system as Super Mario 64, with optional golden spatulas and a number requirement for unlocking each area.

[@rosyan]

In my personal experience it also matters what you are collecting. Bananas? Eh. Shiny multicolored colored gems? Sign me up. If the thing you are collecting is visually pleasing, I enjoy trying to pick all of them up no matter what they do or don't (until the difficulty rises too high, there is a limit to my patience). That said, even if the Stone bites in Darksiders 2 technically are pleasing, considering how much of them there is, with no way to track their locations, they are a pain.

[@greenhillmario]

My personal favourite is just... Xenoblade collectibles. Not the collectopaedia or any of that stuff but the world, landmarks, locations, scenic viewpoints. You obviously get the experience and other stuff but this aspect of collection is tied to the best part of the game

[@Pduarte79]

You can include the Glory thingies and Demon essences in SmtV and SmtV Vengeance.

[@jonyzurdo5965]

Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver and Defiance have simple but very extrensic motivations behind it's collectibles yet they're necessary to go through the game's progression. Keep up the good work mate!

[@danyosuna7276]

Card games do this the best, since every collectible is a new piece of gameplay itself

[@phorchybug3286]

My favorites are Metroidvania upgrades. They actually add more purpose to the game than just "collect crap to open door".

[@TheBestPikachuFan]

I think the stray beads in Okami (If you didn't talk about them already) are a fantastic example of optional, but fun to collect, and a fantastic reward!

[@mxp4se]

A little note on spyro's collectables, they suck apart from the dragon statues on spyro 1. Even with the firefly radar, spyro two and three gems are a complete chore to collect, most of the time there are gems hidden in tall grass or other places that you can't see while you're traversing the stages while completing their main quest. They also serve as a bad getaway to lock the games final bosses, you can literally beat spyro 2 without even entering the last set of stages the game puts out for you.