The Design of Octopath Traveler ~ Design Doc

[@gulusgammamon]

I don't mind each character having a "personal final ending" but i absolutely agree the Characters should have more interaction than the banter

[@theammar]

there's so much potential in the banter. they should've went all out with that. the 'cutscene'/'blackout' during the banter is fine imo. clearly just to make the development easier.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

or creating a plot that changes depending with whom they are together with like with Therion and Cyrus being able to prevent Primrose being stabbed or Therion becoming Nicer to Cyurs after scolding Olrick for being isolationistic( which is the philosophy of this game).

[@theammar]

@@basilofgoodwishes4138 that'd be ideal but I feel they're limited by Budget to do sth like that

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Square enix is more than rich enough to do this, it isn't really that difficult though.

[@TheJadedJames]

I think just forcing the player to get everyone by a certain point is enough. If the writers know by Chapter 3 that the group is fully formed then can freely incorporate characters into each other's stories. It could still be a series of individual arcs played in any order you want, but it'll have a group dynamic.

[@xaldreca3403]

Ok, the main villain didnt exactly come out of nowhere, almost every story hinted at it, but having it be gated behind sidequests was definitely a bad idea.

[@Nirual86]

@Conor Orten two questlines, actually. Both of which unlock among a bunch more once you finish the character stories, with no real hint that they are more important than the rest.

[@adb95]

​@Conor Orten Yeah, but it's so hideously hidden that you have to Google it to find it. I mean, two of Kit's Side Quests resolve in a random spot of the map, not even in the cities. I'm with X Aldreca on this one. The climax fight was great, and I appreciated the attempt to tie all 8 stories together, but it was literally impossible to find without an insane amount of luck. That being said, I hope there is a future for this project, I had an unexpected ton of fun with it.

[@jvbon646]

Wait, hold on. There's a "Main Villain"? I've completed all Chapters of the main stories and even got the 4 secret jobs. Only a few sidequest missing cuz I didn't wanted to look the answers online. Now I'm curious about the main villian.

[@DanThePropMan]

@@jvbon646 You're so close. I don't want to spoil it for you, so I'll just say, finish *all* the sidequests, and then see if any new areas open up on the map. Come prepared and bring your A+ game, because the big boss will test your knowledge of the battle system to the max and you'll have to run a gauntlet just to get to that battle.

[@exogladius5191]

@@jvbon646 You need to complete a few quests to unlock the final dungeon

[@RagdollArtwork]

My personal favorite Therion: I don't trust anybody anymore and only work alone The other 7 travelers whom he'd only known for 5 minutes before joining them, helping him on his quest: *waves*

[@momsaccount4033]

“Let us come with you” “No” “Please?” “No” “Please?” “No” “Please?” “No” “Please?” “... Fine, just don’t bother me.” “Yay”

[@MiguelGonzalez-du8de]

YEAH, that was the part that was the most concerning to me. You can see how other characters would join your party gladly, but Therion doesn't really fit on that role. They could've made him say something like he's just with them to steal more things or have his normal share of adventures despite having his bracelet in the meantime he retrieves the stones, but even that way would still feel artificial for a character like him

[@Suzakuux]

When I first heard H'aanit's "old English" what came to mind was generations ago a group that DID speak real old English established a small hunting village in the woods and over the years, after the people that originally spoke it died off, it changed into the nonsense old English they speak now.

[@Nipah.Auauau]

where was this?

[@SmileyTrilobite]

I think H’aanit’s style of speaking references a Japanese trope: that regional Japanese dialects, compared to Standard Japanese, may be associated with more isolated communities or older forms of speech. This can be heard in the Japanese dub, and I personally appreciated the atmosphere soaking through to the English.

[@davidle0]

This game needs a sequel. There is so much potential for this game to be a masterpiece.

[@Mini_Pixels]

Graham Crossford :)

[@charlottestewart1851]

nah, not a sequel, but maybe a spiritual successor

[@pinoskya]

A dlc xd with a chapter 5 then explain what happened to our travelers

[@pinoskya]

After the history game

[@Mini_Pixels]

@@pinoskya Sure, but sorry, they said they won't make any dlc or more content for this game sadly.

[@Stephen-Fox]

The structure, while I do get the criticism of it (and on paper I prefer the more in depth exploration of a single dungeon that you get in, say, Persona 5), actually helped propel me through the game. With a traditional JRPG structure I find it very easy to fall out of the habbit of playing - I don't have 5 hours to dig into the game over a couple of days? Well guess I won't play for a few days, then because that's the sort of length of time it feels like it takes to get anything significant done. That continues for a couple of weeks, and I've forgotten where I was and probably aren't going to finish the game. Octopath's structure? These 32 2 hour or so chapters in 8 stories that recap you because it might be 12 chapters since you last did something with this character? I just needed to be able to paly for 2 hours over 1, maybe 2 days to feel like it was worth me booting up the game, and even if I had have fallen off the wagon for a couple of weeks or a month, the recaps and length of chapters meant I would have been able to more easily convince myself that I'd be able to pick up where I left off than in traditional JRPGs. While less coherent an overall game structure, it did result in a far more digestible 80+ hour game than your typical 80+ hour JRPG. If there's some way of doing that without sacrificing the interconnected stories, and especially with using the same dungeon for multiple chapters so you can have some really elaborate Persona 5 style dungeons within that structure? I think that's my ideal JRPG.

[@VikingSchism]

Dragonquest XI has a handy plot recap every time you launch up the game, which helps if you need to take a break from playing the game

[@justwantawholename]

@@VikingSchism I think the bigger factor is that DQXI feels like you have to play longer than 2 hours to make actual progress. His point is that because of the structure Octopath feels like breaking off a piece of a Kit Kat rather than eating several crunch bars.

[@denzelromero4796]

Gizensha Fox Agreed till you said P5 was your ideal JRPG

[@victor-cd3ww]

I very much agree with your point there. People who are interested in this kind of 16bit revival are now mostly middle aged, with jobs and stuff to do. The choice of a free-form, chopped-in-pieces narrative is well suited to the gaming schedule of this age group.

[@tedioustotoro4885]

Denzel Romero what’s wrong with Persona 5?

[@SmashBros2009]

Yes indeed, Octopath Traveler is not perfect and it's flawed. But nonetheless, it's a beautiful game.

[@arenkai]

A game that did that kind of structure right was Dragon Quest 4. You play every character individually and see where they come from and what their motivations are, but in the last chapter you play the "real" Hero, go on your adventure JRPG style and meet up with every character along the way. This method of storytelling can be improved upon, sure, but that basis was very unique and it's a shame Octopath didn't borrow more from it than the surface element of "Multiple characters that initially have nothing to do with one another". Octopath did half the job here.

[@novantha1]

I've studied Old English, old high german, old norse, proto-germanic, and proto-indo-european. ...I really liked haanit's accent...

[@bishop6881]

Jaohni it’s like she’s really committed to a bit no one else in the group is doing

[@gyurendakke1984]

I personally love Haanit’s voice actually. It’s unique imo, and her mid-battle dialogue is as hype as the other characters.

[@LockeNarshe]

He didn't have a problem with her voice, he had a problem with her dialect.

[@B0K0691]

Let my arrow fly true

[@thelightbreeze8871]

6:30 You don't notice it till the end end of the game everyone's story lines up together to a endgame boss

[@ThomasBreaker]

Exactly. It doesn't matter in which order you play the endgame episodes, after playing two or three of them you realize that there is something else going on behind the scenes.

[@sam_bamalam]

The video even uses some of that music at the end!

[@nomimonowacolade]

*yoink*

[@lightcouragefake574]

Starting out with the thief in a nutshell.

[@sageofanys3476]

Was I a complete asshole when I stole candy from those orphans? Yeah. Do I regret it? Nah.

[@belakitu8331]

If there is a sequel, I hope they bring about 8 new characters that come together as a true party and not just a group of people who are just around BECAUSE! Otherwise I found this game to the perfect RPG for, with its pick-up-and-continue style thats perfect on the Switch, to its just complex enough Job and Battle systems that make you engaged at least a little bit in every fight, to its GORGEOUS soundtrack and visuals! Like you said, the only thing really holding this game (and hopefully is fixed next time) is its narrative structure problems. An overarching plot that interweaves everyone somehow, while also allowing for the characters to actually interact with each other (I love the idea of something like Fire Emblems system, or maybe something like Persona 4&5s Confidant system?) so that they at least feel more like a party. To me the game in every other aspect was about 8, 9, or 10, but the store and its structure really bogged the game down for me to the point of where I just started to skip cutscenes, which for any RPG is a sin because the story is suppose to be a large aspect of it, otherwise why not just play something thats more along the lines of a mobile or MMO RPG to get your RPG combat fix?

[@laraa739]

No. Absolutely no overarching plot unless it's like the one in this game but you get pointed there once you're ready. There's no point in "fixing" the story by taking away it's strongest point. The best part of the game is the stories being separate but all the characters still feeling like they make sense as a party and having the right amount of interaction (assuming you don't miss anything, which admittedly could have been easier) without being overshadowed by anyone.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Why not? all good stories have it, why not the next one?

[@usaskjock]

NOt sure I've ever seen a game with such a glaring split between amazing parts and god awful parts.

[@AB-sz7mr]

There is a prequel on Japanese App Store. Not sure if out yet.

[@DanThePropMan]

@@laraa739 Except the characters in Octopath DON'T feel like they make sense as a party. For instance, not one of them has any reason to give Therion the time of day, let alone travel with him and help him steal a bunch of stuff, or look the other way while he does so.

[@TonyTheTGR]

"LETTIN THE HUNT BEGINETH"

[@papagarv]

I found myself getting pretty tired by the time I finished everyone's chapter 3 stories, and feel like having a set party of only 4 ("Quadropath Traveler" anyone?) would alleviate that fatigue, plus the stories could come together instead of being separate the whole time. But I like your proposed tweaks for how the characters could've interacted better! There's so much potential! I really hope they make a new game that fixes that stuff.

[@doddynuryanto3800]

you are so lucky, I've bored on chapter 2

[@Aegeah]

I very much hope that there will be a sequel with all new characters and refined story structure. The soundtrack is beautiful, the art (especially bosses) are phenomenal to see, and the battle system is highly enjoyable especially with the diversity of jobs. The little tidbits that are easy to miss (such as scrutinizing/talking to a dog to gain information about a hidden item) are some of my favourite, so much so that this is the only game I've played in which I went out of my way to use all the path actions on every NPC that I could. Octopath is definitely one of my favourite games to date, and if they make a sequel I really am hoping that they'll take your idea of the smaller parties eventually meeting up come into play. That said, it would be great if you could make the parties up of characters that you want to, instead of being forced to meet specific characters - the whole fun of Octopath's world exploration and character gathering is that you can do things with whoever you want and go at your own pace; by removing that, I feel like it would lose its freedom. I adore the travel banters (Cyrus and Therion's are hilarious), but it would be great would be to have a FE-esque support system up to A+. In fact, there could even be combat bonuses if, for example, all of your party is A+ with one another. I'm just throwing out ideas, but I would be disappointed to see SE leave Octopath alone after just one game. It's an amazing story just waiting to be told, and in future, maybe we can play it.

[@sharpshooterxigbar5713]

Aegeah It’s coming.

[@SuperSupersoda]

I just started playing it and just finished getting all 8 characters and just finished the dancer's second chapter. Funny thing, I held off on getting her until the end, figuring she would be utterly useless, but man, she has the DARKEST first two chapters, and by far the most interesting, of any of the characters. After I finished getting the 8 characters, I thought "who's story do I want to continue next?" The dancer, I wanted to hear the next chapter in her story. I think that's the idea behind the plot: you choose which character you want to know more about next. This kind of choose your own adventure plot can work, but it needed a ton more rewrites to keep the free flow but also put it together in a logical way. I agree, this is a proof of concept, and a very strong one that I'm enjoying so far.

[@PRDGL_WindyBW]

OT2 Is going to be the most deserving of GOTY23, but it will sadly get cheated by Tears of the Kingdom.

[@sabetasama]

Tressa's Passive actually makes more than enough money to just buy everything, so there's little reason to choose between them. Though there are some items only Therion can steal, and items sold for gold are best stolen since they won't resell for a profit. If you keep Tressa with you she can also buy a lot of those 5% odds items that Therion struggles with, and those items are ludicrously powerful and help to one-shot many of those bosses you called Damage Sponges. Also H'aanit's Middle English is mostly accurate. It only sounds weird because you don't actually know what Middle English sounds like. Also Also there is an interwoven plot that becomes pretty damn clear once you hit everyone's chapter 3s and 4s, with only Tressa being the odd duck who doesn't quite connect. (Her final boss does connect to the larger plot...but Tressa doesn't connect to her final boss) A LOT of people miss the Final Chapter however, because there's a mandatory Side Quest chain that requires all 8 Paths to be completed. Other than those above points this is definitely a solid video on Octopath's strengths and weaknesses, but I feel you kind of reached too far to talk about the parts you didn't like.

[@jackster57558]

I’m surprised he didn’t mention Olberic’s voice line that says something like “The battle is TRULY bdhdgshk” I never could figure out what the last line was. Or the advanced classes that you have to find totally on accident and are practically a requirement to advance the game. I totally agree with everything else you said though despite loving Octopath anyways.

[@GangplankPhilly]

i think it's "the battle is truly joy"

[@TheKirby8u]

Personally I think this game could take notes from Odin Sphere (you should also totally do a video on that one!) where its 5 characters have very intertwining stories and villains that add to eachother and you find out more about their world and npc's. Not to mention each character have they're own arcs both in their stories and in other character stories.

[@Lotloxa]

The way you suggest structuring the story with separate parties slowly coming together in each chapter reminds me a lot of the Golden Sun series. Although, that took place over multiple games instead.

[@christopherddrew7555]

The final optional boss and the stories you read before hand illustrated how these eight people were not a random group. Instead it showed that the major inciting incidents of their lives were all interconnected, they had a shared past that made traveling together make sense, and even that wasn't acknowledge by the characters! The hinted at interconnected story just wasn't raised to the level it could have been/should have been. I loved this game, but I really had hoped that the stories would have merged somewhat at some point. You get a sense that they tried to figure out how to make the party feel like a party but got too deep into the eight paths, eight stories idea and couldn't work their way back. I really hope they make a follow up game, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I also should say I loved how easy this game was to pick up and put down compared to a lot of other RPG's. If I only had 15 minutes on a bus to play a game Octopath was an option, where a lot of RPG's require a minimum of an hour+ to feel like you have done anything. That ease of pick up and put down was likely another reason why the story was so chopped up and non-connected.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Except it's not shown in the game and they wasted a lot of Potential. Live a Live didn't suffered from this problem by separating the Characters through Time and places so that they cannot at first interconnect or Rudra by giving them individual part members only to leave to join the into one group. The game has no excuses for this, it would be even worse if all stories in of this games were trash.

[@uaenruotel]

When I got to that point I felt like it was more an afterthought that they were tied together, it seemed more like a desperate attempt to make the stories have something to do with each other. It was definitely written last.

[@jeom3808]

as it stands, its a 7/10- to a 8/10 at times, but i agree, this game could have been an instant classic, a perfect 10/10, and i have really high hopes that they make a sequel that fulfill this, becouse it would be a tragedy to see this concept/IP and team go to waste.

[@ThePsh07]

That H’annit character’s dialogue sounds like it was written by the meme commenters in those “Bardcore” Medieval Music cover videos. 😅

[@danielevans7439]

I really wish you had talked about the beautiful yet lifeless dungeons, which is my greatest disappointment with the game. You don’t even need a story if the dungeons feel exciting, but instead, they’re mechanically more cookie cutter than the towns. Edit: In Octopath’s defense, though, this is the FIRST game I’ve found that properly uses thee, thou, -eth, and -est correctly. But combining Early Modern English with their own Anglo-like conjugal structure (which was also well done) really hurts the effect.

[@sageofanys3476]

Oh yeah, the dungeons in this game are absolutely pitiful and surprisingly short at times too. One time I thought I was only half-way through Primrose's 2nd dungeon because of how short and linear it was, but nope.

[@danielevans7439]

SageOfAnys That’s one of the three paths I have left. Glad to know I have so little to look forward to :P Jk, I’m looking forward to challenging all the “secret” job classes.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

They focused too much on fighting rather than building dungeons, they could have at least create a dungeon in one of therion's chapters where you have to steal keys for certian doors from the enemies, in order to proceed.

[@geovaughan8261]

You need to go back and play the original Dragon Quests for the NES, then, if you want proper thees and thous.

[@danielevans7439]

Geo VII Thanks. I haven’t played DQ1-3 since I was a kid. I’ll have to see how well they did. But I do know that Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger were lousy at it. Even as a kid, I could tell they were all messed up.

[@jrilo1307]

The worst part for me were the town NPCs. I remember picking Alfyn first and playing through his first chapter in a small village, where he is a friendly apothecary everyone likes. However, once I left the town and returned to see if anything had changed, they turned into generic characters that didn't even know me.

[@providence1517]

I agree with some of this. Personally, I feel the eight characters' stories would had been much better if they weren't restricted to four chapters each. I found that most of the characters' chapter 2 for example didn't really add much to each of their stories (imo, Ophilia ch 2 being the biggest offender). If they maybe had one or more chapter added to each story, the stories' pacing would had been much better. That and if they only reworked certain issues in each stories (such as the out-of-nowhere villain from Tressa's chapter 4, or the little developed villains from Primrose or Olberic). Of course, it could backfire, making an already long game even longer. And yes, the characters should had interacted more, but the issue with that I can see is that it would had taken forever for the developers to make up eight storylines that weave together, especially considering that you can recruit the other 7 characters of your group in any order. If you were to make exclusive cutscenes, dependent on who you picked and who you recruited next and whether or not you went on to a chapter 2, the game would had probably taken forever to get done. And while your solution have some merit (forcing the player to complete everyone's chapter before moving onto the next, which the game kinda enforces by amping up the levels of each enemies in the story), one of the game's key points was being able to choose your path, and flexibility. But I won't lie, your idea sounds sorta pleasing.

[@josephcerasuolo3563]

Just to quibble, haanit's "olde english" isnt made up. Its the type of english used in the Canterbury Tales i believe.

[@MilesMariae]

Well no. Try reading the caterbury tales just off the shelf and not with an updated english, you really won't understand it. The character is some kind of middle between Canterbury tales and modern English. Historically there is such a thing, Shakespeare English, which is what he doesn't use.

[@jonnydent825]

@@MilesMariae Haanit's dialect is mostly modern vocabulary with middle english grammar.

[@Shaifs]

I think you might be being a little too hard on the structure. Sure what you said is correct but you didn't talk about the pros of the storyline structure. Having the disconnected and individual storylines offers a unique and fresh feel. Some characters clearly have better stories with some being downright boring, while others being greatly rewarding. This might be a case of looking at it from the wrong perspective. The structure could be improved but I don't think the concept is wrong, nor do I think the answer is to make it all connected even if I do like that kind of structure. Doing so would make Octopath Traveler lose some of it's charm.

[@thereGoMapo]

plus it gives more room for say a sequel

[@MrSonysung]

*MY PLOT IS UNFOCUSED!*

[@danielevans7439]

MY STORY ARC IS UNBENDING!

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Let get us down to the Plot Armour.

[@someoneusedtobeknown2645]

Now the TRUE lesson begins! *Plays video.*

[@dexholdersadventures9480]

These characters are not heroes like every RPG ever. They are ordinary humans, nothing more, nothing less. They are normal people, trying to reach THEIR OWN goals and facing THEIR OWN adversities. Therefore by having a main villain, each of the 8 characters story would fall flat. Why? Well that's easy, because they show no interest in saving the world or saving the realm. They are ordinary humans like us, nothing more, nothing less. One wants to clean his name, one wants revenge, one wants to find it's master, one wants to meet new people, etc. Ever since the 1st chapter they have no reason to meet one another and help each other out. That is exactly why you can simply choose a character and complete his or her own story by him/herself. The game does encourage you to meet all 8 characters. Only by acquiring all 8 characters you can explore the entirety of the game's world. It saddens me to see so many reviews of this game and not understanding Octopath's brilliance comes from it's deconstruction of what a JRPG is and it always was. This is not an epic story like Final Fantasy or other famous JRPGs out there that tell the tales of heroes. This is Octopath Traveler. And it's unique way of storytelling is what makes it standout. Myself having played dozens of JRPGs can say this was a brilliant move from it's creators and to me the game will remain as one of the best in the genre.

[@AquaTwist_]

Even with its flaws, Octopath Traveler is one of the best RPGs I’ve played, if not one of my favorite games of all time! I really hope we get a sequel to it!

[@wbuck]

Your proposal of having the characters form progressively larger preset parties reminds me a lot of Golden Sun, or the "scenario" segment in FF6. That game would be so damn good.

[@trojankaiju5027]

The offhand idea of using Fire Emblem supports sounds like it would do a whole lot for this game. Another idea would be to use a system like the vignettes in the Tales Of games

[@guilhermegarcialima6696]

I really liked Octopath Traveler, but I had some problems with it as well. I was disapointed that the stories of the eight travelers were completely disconnected, but after some time playing the game I got over it and started apreciating it for what it was. Although I can't say the same about the lack of interaction between the characters But my main problem with this game is how basic are the dungeons. There is nothing to them. The only thing you will thing you will find are some enemies and some chests that sometimes require some thinking on how to get to them. I was kinda expecting some puzzles in the middle or something like that. Anyways, I still love this game and I hope that soon they will make sequel that improves on those aspects. If that happens, its a 10/10 for me.

[@guilhermegarcialima6696]

@@JFH3392 Thanks, I'll make sure to give it a try.

[@sharpshooterxigbar5713]

Guilherme Garcia Lima They aren’t completely disconnected. Each character has some sort of tie with the Dark god, Gate of finis or the crossford family.

[@wearefucked7244]

All the stories are connected

[@birbtheworldender2673]

I like to think of the 8 travelers as people who never met each other, who just help each other because "they are a group" but just want to do their own thing. For example, Cyrus, in his story, when looking for the lost tome, Ophilia might be praying in a church or Alfyn might be in a tavern.

[@TheAaron730]

I know most people didn't like that the main villain was locked behind a strange side quest but that allowed it to be an actually difficult fight so I enjoyed it. Easily my favorite part of the game was getting ruined by the fight and having to train and work out a strategy until I finally beat it.

[@naenoart]

I absolutely agree with you, also my issue is, that I skipped the intros of the other characters I invited into my party because I thought “I get to their story when I restart the game” just like the trailers promised - eight completely different stories. The way I understood it was that you follow one character’s journey and the other ones are just party members but by actively skipping their story, I feel like I’m missing out on something the developers intended the player to do… Of course, it’s my fault for skipping but it’s kind of odd game design to spoil each character’s story when you meet them - I assumed you would get introduced to everything over time… Btw, I LOVE the idea you proposed at the end! I feel like a story structure like this is really needed… If there’s no structure, there is no hierarchy to rank important things, also, the narrative gets very messy and loses focus…

[@RyanGatts]

H'aanit's dialog is actually pretty cool. She conjugates modern English vocabulary using several Middle English grammar conventions (Note: Shakespeare = Modern English, Chaucer = Middle English, Beowulf = Old English ). The strange "en" ending that she puts on so many verbs is an ending used for plural verbs (a thing Modern English doesn't have); so I "sing", thou "singest", and H'aanit "singeth", but her party "singen". If you had to memorize any of the Canterbury Tales, you might remember the line "And smale foweles maken melodye" which is "and small fowls make melody" but fowls is plural so make becomes maken. This isn't to say it isn't super awkward, but if something was the opposite of "making up Old English on the fly", this is it. (Actual Old English is pretty inscrutable by the way: Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon )

[@cashnelson2306]

Couldn't disagree more. The conventions being used doesn't mean they are being used properly; H'aanit's dialogue reads and sounds like someone who has read literally only the Canterbury Tales and nothing else using Middle English trying very hard to sound authentic. This is only made worse by the fact that her culture feels entirely disconnected from others in the world in a very artificial sense - at no point does anyone comment on the way she speaks, for instance, and there's a hard edge around the area in which any NPCs speak the way she did. If her tribe/village speaks that way because they are purposefully isolationist, somebody should note the novelty of how she speaks or that someone from her village is outside the village. (Cyrus would have been a great vehicle for that, as presumably he'd be aware they exist or have read books in their style of Octopath Common or whatever they speak.) If they aren't isolationist, how did that manner of speaking survive completely unchanged for so long? There's no historical logic to it, because the world essentially has no history. It's emblematic of how hollow most of the plot/character beats in this game feel for me. Nothing impacts anything else, either during our playtime or before in history, so no plot beats ever have any weight behind it. It never feels like a cohesive world with societies that interact and share culture the way humans do. It feels like a middle school anime fan's fanfiction, not a big-budget game. Good thing the battle system, music, and general aesthetic choices were so stellar. I wonder if H'aanit would have bothered me less if she wasn't my first character, subjecting me to "LETTEN MY ARROWS FLYETH TRUE" endlessly (or until I discovered the Japanese audio track, anyway.)

[@cashnelson2306]

Wow, I just re-read your name. Long time no see, what a small Internet

[@crusaddy]

It might be factually correct, but it doesn't change the fact that 99% of people get nightmares over "LETTEN THY HUNT BEGINNEN" and her constant annoying old English that makes you focus 3 times more to understand what she says.

[@owlflame]

It's kinda upsetting how many people think Octopath isn't a great game just because the story is handled more like a novella than a traditional story which they're not used to. Again, and I can back this up with a thirty page essay that I've already written, Octopath traveler is my favorite game of all time

[@davidalexander8947]

Bruh send me this essay I wanna read it

[@iceTime999]

My biggest problem with the game was that you couldn't switch out the beginning character. When I did the second chapters I had 7 mildly underleveled characters and one overleveled character. @owlflame since you love this game so much, can you give an advice on how to avoid this problem? The game lost me with this (but not this "finish 4 questlines and then begin the other 4". I heard that a couple of times. Just nope xD).

[@davidalexander8947]

@@iceTime999 What I ended up doing was completing all character's chapter 1 stories, then chapter 2, 3, and 4. I would keep my protagonist in at all times but still make sure everyone else was at a certain level. In essence it's just a lot of grinding.

[@iceTime999]

@@davidalexander8947 Don't know if there was an update, but when I played there wasn't even a way to have a party without the protagonist before completing the game. That was my problem. I did all chapter 1s and then 2s etc as well. It wasn't even much to grind imo and I liked my slightly underleveled party but the overleveled protagonist broke the game for me. It was always the best strategy to support the protagonist since he is like up to 10 levels higher than the rest. It's a shame, I really liked the game, but this little decision to make it impossible to discard the protagonist made him OP and I quit the game.

[@evanb6594]

we want to see the essay!

[@jeromeciarkowski1367]

Great video as always, Design Doc. But this one felt more like a review slightly focused on the design of the 3 S’s rather than an analysis on the design and its intended purpose and possible alternative to achieve a particular design/meaning/feeling in the player. Just my two cents. Looking forward to your next video!

[@laraa739]

My favorite part was the story structure that was way more satisfying than just the usual single story. So I definitely don't want the story to be fixed by just making it like any other game, since the difference is exactly why it's my favorite JRPG so probably also my favorite game ever. I just wish the interactions were easier to get like in fire emblem, but having them take place at a specific time made it excusable and helped the party feel just as close as it needed, since it was like a cutscene that you get after the main one but isn't mandatory. Tough I think being able to view them and the ones you missed in your Diary after the chapter 4 would be cool. That way you can get the context by the placement in your diary. I just wish there was a cutscene for having your party with you since while it didn't bother me that much I agree it can be weird. But it should be locked to a "story mode" that locks the chapter twos until you recruit everyone so you're guaranteed to have three other party members. So you can not select the story mode to do a solo run and if you do recruit everyone the story works like it does now.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

It was unsatisfying, none of the stories intersept and are done in such a poor way, that it's a huge downgrade compared to it's predessesors. Not to mention that Crossford is a boring Character anyway that gets only interesting after you finished the game's main storyline, not in the story. His diary is equally boring and dull, doing literally nothing to develop his character, he is only there for shock values, i mean do you even cared for him before Chapter 4? Besides uniquenss isn't always good, for instance is a restaurant that gives you only frozen food is unique, but utter garbage.

[@abelstypewriters]

I've been reading up A LOT on this, and I think the final point is dead on: The reviews and concepts in this game can be recycled with a more focused and nuanced main story for all the characters to be involved with.

[@FhtagnCthulhu]

I was really excited for Octopath, but I just couldn't take H'aanit. I never returned to it after her chapter. I already had issues though because of the structure. If stories intertwined it would be cool, but getting interested in what was going on with one character only to have to pick up someone else (and then probably grind a bit too) was just too much of a barrier for me to get invested.

[@tbowne05]

A major pet peeves is how boring the cut scenes are. The sprites barely move or emote. They just stand there or walk back and forth. No creativity to those moments.

[@kingmeprime]

I'd argue that most games do essentially the same thing. Fire emblem, ace attorney, even doki doki just has relatively simple changes in facial features. Your point is still valid but I think the situation is very common

[@tbowne05]

@@kingmeprime yeah I agree. The issue I had with octopath was at the cut scenes were so damn long it got really boring.

[@sektorispiar2988]

The developers of OT should have examined and implemented some of the plot-design structural elements used in Seiken Densetsu 3 / Trials of Mana. That game managed to interweave the stories of its 6 main characters by combining them into plot-pairs. And the possible interactions would vary depending on who was (and wasn't) in your party. I hope a sequel to OT will improve off of the potential that's there.

[@Nirual86]

There's actually a few things you can't steal, only buy and vice-versa, and the same goes for most of the path actions

[@kiza860]

idk for the english voice acting you mentioned, but the Japanese voice over is well suited for the characters and really satisfying and feel free to join the weaboo club

[@twigz3214]

Overall I loved this game, prob my favorite of 2018 and probably favorite overall. I thought the main villain was set up fine and made sense, it was hinted at in every chapter and it's existence was made known. The Boss itself feels a little bad though and could have been done better. The Stories were all good and felt like their own. I personally didn't mind everyone being separate, the banter was enough to connect them and while I would want a bit more, of course, making each character change the story a bit would be a nightmare. Pairing characters up sounds like a nice idea though. The Combat is what really drew me in and it was some of the best combat I've ever had. some bosses were long but none ever felt bad, the longer fights overall were extremely positive and the bosses being as long as they were made the game even better, can't wait for the sequel :)

[@perchipy7900]

Great music, graphic, combat, and the 8 stories does tie together in the end. This is a gem for me.

[@SamWeltzin]

Oh yeah. I forgot this game had voice-acting. I turned that off when I started the game. Still, this seems pretty accurate to my experience so far too (mid-game).

[@elijahwinograd5851]

The characters stories are actually tied together in the secret final boss.

[@lightcouragefake574]

2:17 I will agree with you at with some of the early game bosses being damage sponges, but I felt during mid to late game that Cyrus literally just nuked the bosses within 10-11 turns, and sometimes even earlier if the boss was weak to bows. Granted Cyrus doing 5000 damage 2 OR EVEN 4 TIMES during the mid-game, with the right buffs/debuffs, of course, is absolutely absurd.

[@neobahumuth6]

Would say that any character can actually bring the deeps into a fight. Usually with the right setup any boss from ch2 onward dies once broken or is close to death

[@christophersavignon4191]

Yep. I nearly choked when he said that the battles are "too long". Often enough I'd beat them before unleashing my whole fury, without being overleveled. It just sucks when you build up to a ginormous final strike, and the boss dies right before you fire it off.

[@ratio1037]

@@christophersavignon4191 I think only times it was ever an issue for me boss wise was if I just didnt have the right equipment and got myself oneshot and stuff.

[@Johnny_Shields]

I watched studio ponoc’s short film festival and honestly, I’ve warmed up to the idea of 8 independent story islands.

[@incandescence5547]

Besides what was mentioned in this video, I want to bring up a couple more issues that I had with the game: 1: The sidequests. It's rarely very clear what you're meant to do, and it's often something so specific and obtuse that looking it up is basically mandatory. 2: The true final boss being an hour long, with a massive boss rush that you have to repeat every time you want to attempt it. This on its own wouldn't be that bad, but you're also required to use all 8 party members, when you'd previously always only needed 4, meaning it's likely that only 4 will be at a reasonable level for it, basically meaning you'd have to burn 20+ hours grinding.

[@oak8594]

Rewatching this after Octopath Traveler II was announced, and I have hope that the sequel will have fixed most of the problems expounded upon in this video. I know at the very least they're already claiming that the characters interact with each other more and that their stories are more interconnected, but we'll have to see just how true that is in practice when we get to February 2023.

[@unbug6721]

For me, Octopath's Traveler is the best RPG that comes out since a long while, but I have to admit that every point you talk about are right. Thanks for your work, that reminded me an old feeling I had during the game ;) Great job !!! :)

[@usaskjock]

Agreed totally on your proposed solutions.

[@finalninju6021]

2:36 "Very Nice."

[@miguel_H.C]

Let's hope Square sees your video and makes a “sequel” that really makes history The art is goregeus, the OST is magnificent, the Gameplay is incredible...The only thing left is the story, and if they fix that (like the example you gave of the 1-2-4-4-Villain) the “next” Octopath Traveler will be definetly a masterpiece Great video!

[@silvertheelf]

When a place is called “Ilikechurchsylvania” you know something weird is going on with the world your in.

[@carprincess]

I haven’t played this game but I’m glad to hear that despite how much it fumbled with execution it had an interesting concept that hopefully will be executed better in a sequel

[@redalchemy7322]

To be fair, I haven't played Octopath Traveler. But from what I understood from this video about its story structure it could have benefited from something like what they did for Valkyrie Profile. Where there were individual character plots and a “core” plot that united them. Especially if there was some pervading element that lingered in the individual character plots that encouraged an evolution of the core plot.

[@sageofanys3476]

Technically, this "core plot" exists in-game, it was just handled very poorly. SPOILER ALERT FOR THE SECRET BOSS (also sorry for the long comment) All 8 stories actually are connected through the witch Lyblac and her attempts to free the Dark God Galdera who is sealed behind the Gate of Finis. There are hints of the connection throughout the game (Graham Crossford being an important but unseen NPC in Alfyn's and Tressa's tales, the Gate being brought up in Therion's and Olberic's, Cyrus's tale featuring a mural that depicts an ominous gate with a Redeye-looking creature (Redeye being H'aanit's final boss) within, the dangers of Galdera's power being featured in Cyrus's and Ophilia's, and the Obsidian gang showing up in Primrose's and Tressa's). The main issue is that these connections come incredibly late, pretty much at everyone's last chapter, chapter 4, so there's very little time to develop the connection beyond establishing the fact that it exists. And some (like Primrose's and Tressa's connection) are so subtle they're incredibly hard to notice/remember by a majority of players. These connections are eventually all brought up and explained in the secret dungeon before the secret (and technically true) final boss fight. The revelations are pretty impactful and mindblowing, but nowhere near the extent it could be due to the lack of development beforehand. And in order to even find out about this hidden central plot line, you must a.) Finish all 8 stories and b.) Complete 2 sidequest chains which are never given more significance than any other sidequest in the game. It's made even worse because even though reaching the final boss REQUIRES that you have all 8 characters and complete their stories (hell, the boss requires that you use all 8 characters) they _still_ never interact. Not when finding out the truth behind everything or even when confronting Galdera. Just, nothing.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@SageOfAnys MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR THE GAME AS WELL Not only that, but plenty of the Main Antagonists aren't even contributing the Lybac's goal either directly or indirectly such as Matthias, Werner and Redeye. Matthias because he never wanted to ressurect Galdera, he was very much against his return and only used the Dark Flame to weaken the bounds that held Galdera so that he can perform his Satanic rituals to heal the land....chewing, but not swalling it....licking, but not sucking it......Only toying with Galdy's power, but not using it to it's full potential and completely unimportant to Lybac's goal, since she needs a Vessel to bring galdera back to life, not some ritual to waeken his bounds. Werner was similiar, he broke up all contact or dealm with Lybac the minute he destroyed Hornberg when he realized that he is not going to bring back Galdy.....WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS TO THE MOST CLUELESS OF INDIVUDUAL TO REALIZE THAT NO ONE ASKS TO DESTROY A KINGDOM JUST TO OPEN A GATE OR BETTER, ASSUMMING THAT YOUR FORMER BOSS WON'T FIND A NEW WORKER TO DO HER DIRTY WORK, WHICH SHE DID WITH KID ULTIMATELY(sorry). From the riches he got from his deal, he bought a Riverford and would live there as it's tyrant, until Olberic fell him and he spouted out some info about the Gate, which he didn't even desired, he was only there for the riches. Redeye because he as Crossford experienced it in the hard way to not let Galdera return to the land of the Living, when he was turned into the vessel of Galdy( how did Lybac even got the stones to do so, do you need only 3 of the 4?, guess plot holes are also a issues with the plot), but he was too strong to let himself become Galdy's vessel and fled..only to become mad and starts to terrorizes the land of Orsterra. If some of your main villians aren't even contributing to the goals of thier leader or better former leader and betrayer, then you really need to rewrite the story. Darius is uselss because the gate can be opened by just 3 gates and he just needed the assistance of Lybac to get what he wants. Lion eagle and Esmelrade do not contribute to the main story line that much and are only ok at best. Simeon was just poorly handled and his development felt random and completely out of Nothing just to contrive a articfical conflict with Primrose, altogether, not that usefull for Lybac...oh and don't get me to the inconsistence with Ywon and Lucia, the game can't decide who was the master of the two, just ignore them.Appearently the Heroes aren't the only ones with disconnected character motivation and stories, if there is one word to descripe this mess then it would be Shit-arse. When you finished the 8 story, you have to finish the very obviously titled Daughter of the Dark god and the Kid quests( because the game knew that you wouldn't be able to know which sidequest you have to do in order to get 100% Completion) to get to the Final dungeon....there we are thrown some lore to our poor faces instead of the villains actually telling us anything, thinking that some backstory would fix these Characters at all.....Matthias doens't get any sympathy points at all as doesn't get Simeon with his ancestry with that Obscure Ventus dynasty of the Mountianlands. Like Sage says, none of the Character interact, which makes the whole party look weak and pretty strange to adjust to, on top of you not being able to complete one story after another, rather you have to switch( lol the console ) to the other frequently.....not a good or ok way to make a Narritve.

[@sageofanys3476]

@@basilofgoodwishes4138 MORE SPOILERS I disagree with _several_ parts of your analysis here. It's true that several of the main antagonists for the 8 player characters did not directly contribute to Lyblac's goal, but Werner did contribute to the goal indirectly. As was stated in Cyrus's chapter 1, the royal family of Hornberg safeguarded an ancient power that was unknown to the rest of the world, and that knowledge was lost when Hornburg fell. There's a 99.99% chance that the Gate of Finis was what the kingdom was protecting, so Werner destroying Hornberg did contribute to Lyblac's goal - it removed the one thing that stood between her and the gate. Werner breaking off his connections with Lyblac at this point didn't matter because Werner already fulfilled his role in Lyblac's master plan. Him faffing around in Riverford was irrelevant to her. Also remember: no one really knew what lied beyond the Gate. Even the Ravus family, whose job is to safeguard the literal keys to the Gate of Finis, no longer know what lies beyond the gate, and those who did were conveniently offed - likely by the Obsidians. Even Olberic, the personal guard to the King himself, doesn't know what the hell the Gate of Finis is. The information was that secret. The only ones that knew besides Lyblac at this point were the Obsidians, which likely suggests the two worked in tandem considering Simeon has 0 reason to care about the Gate or the Crossfords otherwise. Werner was even less privy than Cordelia and Olberic, I'd be more surprised if Werner even knew about the Gate of Finis before Lyblac came around. Redeye admittedly had no role in unlocking the Gate, but it was part of Lyblac's first failed attempt at the ritual. Lyblac, for reasons unknown, believed that she could easily pull the ritual off outside the gate, but as we know, she underestimated Graham's determination and love for his family and the ritual was only partially completed. That ritual resulted in Graham transforming into Redeye. So while Redeye itself does not contribute to Lyblac breaking open the gate, it pulls multiple other narrative purposes: 1.) Redeye is so drastically different from every other monster/beast in the game. It's mere existence is enough to clue in the player that something strange/dangerous is afoot, but we don't know what, hinting at an overarching plot. 2.) Serve as a hint as to what will happen to Kit in the post-game dungeon before confronting Lyblac. Also Lyblac *did* use all 4 dragonstones. As mentioned in Therion's Chapter 1, all four dragonstones were stolen after the death of Cordelia's father. The only reason the sapphire one is back in the Ravus's possession is because it was the only one Heathcote was able to recover after the fact. So Lyblac likely just tossed them once she opened the gate, as they were no longer necessary. That wasn't a plot hole. I'll admit that Darius was useless to the overall plot, but his story was there to provide exposition on the dragonstones and the Gate of Finis. Same could be said for Lucia and Yvon. They were the forces that drove Cyrus's adventure, but for the grand narrative, Cyrus's story mainly served as a way to explain the powers of Galdera and hint at what lies beyond the Gate/tie Redeye to the Gate. (Also Lucia was mentioned to be the mastermind behind the two, she merely allowed Yvon to think he was in control as that was the only way she'd be able to use him as a tool, that's why she's Cyrus's final boss and why Yvon curses her so vehemently in the post-game dungeon) It is also implied that perhaps the research that Lucia did was able to help Lyblac break the seal on the Gate with the dragonstones and perform the ritual, but I don't remember much of the details on this or the timeframe, so I can't say for certain. Esmerelda was implied to be an Obsidian member through the grunts found in the dungeon and concept art showing her with a crow tattoo on her leg, and her searching for Graham Crossford's journal was likely in the hopes of discovering the location of his son, Kit, as Lyblac was looking for Kit most of the game. It serves to connect the Obsidians to Graham and, as is revealed later in the post-game dungeon, Lyblac. The Lion Eagle wasn't really the main antagonist for Alfyn, it was actually Ogen. The Eagle was just the battle to prove his convictions were true, and Ogen's main role in the grand narrative is just to inform Alfyn that the dude who saved him is Graham Crossford. Ophilia's interaction with Mattias also just serves to show the player the extent of Galdera's power. And as I mentioned before, Lyblac was likely working with the Obsidians and therefore Simeon behind the scenes. That's the only reason why Simeon would know about the Gates why Esmerelda would be looking for Kit, and why Lyblac had the money to to bribe Werner with to begin with. While all these enemies do not cleanly and directly contribute to Lyblac's overall goal, that isn't their point. What matters is that Lyblac had a subtle role in every single one of the traveler's journey and, at times, was why they went on the journey to begin with. Lyblac introducing Mattias to Galdera's power led to Ophilia going on the Kindling instead of Lianna. Lyblac spurred Yvon and Lucia to assassinate the previous headmaster and research Galdera's magic, which eventually led to Cyrus's quest for the missing tome. Lyblac needing to find Kit is why Esmerelda stole the journal from Tressa. Lyblac needing full access to the gate is why she got Werner to destroy Hornberg. Lyblac needing the funds to get others to fulfill her goals connects her to the Obsidians and directed their goals. Lyblac needing a vessel is why Graham even met Alfyn to begin with. Lyblac stealing the dragonstones is why Cordelia looked for a thief and sent Therion out to reclaim the stones. Lyblac failing her first attempt at the ritual is why Redeye even exists. Lyblac's involvement in all of the traveler's adventures is meant to make the final trial all the more personal - Lyblac was the cause of a lot of the trials and suffering they witnessed. And that's were I have my issue. _The game didn't emphasize how personal this conflict was._ Connections between Lyblac and the others are tenuous before the big reveal, too many pieces are hidden or not explored enough to be treated with enough significance. So by the time you do find out about all this in the Gate of Finis, is it mindblowing? Yeah. But is it impactful as it could be? Hell no. These connections all make sense after the reveal, but connecting them beforehand takes some real mental gymnastics. Even then, each of the 8 had their lives changed by Lyblac's direct interference, yet their failure to interact doesn't allow us to see their reactions. You'd think Tressa and Alfyn would be utterly horrified during the Redeye reveal, you'd think that everyone would develop a seething hatred of Lyblac by the end of it all, but we'd never know, because we can't see it. I have a lot of issues with Octopath's narrative, but consistency and lore is not one of them. They overall handled it pretty well, and putting the pieces together, it generally makes a lot of sense. But the way they brought it all together and failed to give the reveal as much emphasis and drama as they should makes this grand, overarching narrative fall flat. Sorry for the novel.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@SageofAnys EVEN MORE SPOILERS Wow, you really did write some constructive critique here, i admit that, now to the points you made here: Cyrus mentioned it as an theory, not an ironclad fact, in fact, before he could explain himself, the dialogue gets cut so that we as the player won't be able to think about the ancient power too much in fear that they would spoil too much info to us. I won't blame anyone for missing this piece of info, since it gets put down to the carpet very early on. Werner's contribution to the fall of Hornburg cannot be denied, but my point was that it really didn't made sense for him to do it, when he fully knew ( in his entry in the Finis gate, he knew that whatever Lyblac was planning, it would bring ruin to the world, so he understood at what stakes the world once stood on) what kind of dangers that course of action could have wrought. Not to mention that the whole idea that one needs to destroy an entire Kingdom to get into some old sanctuary is really dumb and unprecedent, that is just a waste of time and way too dangerous to pull of, because no matter how well you could conceal it, an conspiracy that big on the scale is always going to be revealed to the people....which ultimately happened and that ironically destroyed Lyblac and her father's goal forever. A more logical and better alternative would have been to just do this: 1. Get Graham to your party, so that you can use him for the ritual 2. Use Werner and Erthard to give you full immunity from the King, so that you can pass up until to the gate with no problems then you can 3.A Use your magic to hypnotize or charm the gaurds on the gate to your side B. Kill then with the help of the Black Brotherhood C. replace these guards with members of the Black Guard so that you can control that gate permanently or D. Brainwash the King and become his Assistant to not only control the gate, but the Kingdom itself with less bloodshed and effort 4. perform the ritual, but now, if it fails, you can still use Kit, but now with the guards and a huge chunk of the Army of hornburg under your control, you can reproduce the ritual with no dangers. That would have been much better as a plan than just destroying the Kingdom, heck not even the Templars from Assassins Creed did that with the Crusader states or the Saracean ones to get to the Temple of Solomon, instead they used thier connection with the Kingdoms to get an free entry to the sanctuary with no need to destroy whole Kingdoms, that would be too easily visible and almost impossible to conceal. Speaking of the Kingdom, if a Kingdom can be easily brought down by just killing it's Monarch then it's a weak Kingdom, you would need more than that to destroy a Kingdom like killing off all heirs, taking the Capital or all cities of this Kingdom, not simply regicide. I should have been more clear with what i wanted to conway here, i meant with my earlier post that the vilians's motives do not match with that of their Boss to an degree, it's unbelievable that they even work for her, not even someone as selfish as Werner would endanger the world to such an degree unless he is a Monster, which he sort of is, but not as much as Lyblac. I admit that Redeye had an role in the plot and i also have to admit that i was too harsh on him, but he is still dissapointing in a lot of ways, both storywise and Gameplaywise. Storywise because his Character before and after wasn't even engaging, Honestly i really didn't cared for Graham simply because of how absent he was in the whole story up until now and him being the true identity of that thing, kind of reduces Redeye as a simple teaser to what we are going to see in the final dungeon, that being the Lore bore fest, rather than an interesting and independant Character in H'aanit's story. Oh and no Kit's fate was very diffrent from Redeye, Redeye was a failure that looks like some eldric abomination you might find in 20th-21th century horror literature, whereas Kit's transformation was successful and he became the flesh of the Dark God Grim--I meant Galdy, so Redeye was merely a small hint to the true final challenge in the game and a poorly done on on top of that. gameplay wise because the chance of him using his petrifcation ability( his alleged signature move) is much slower than the chance of you to die in the boss figth against Simeon, there his roar( that causes unconciousness) and claw attacks are much better, not only makes it all the hype up with his battle weak, but it also makes the Chapter 3 of H'aanit's story a simple expy fest, which is dissapointing. Oh the Dragonstones i agree and i am sorry, though it kind of makes the search for them somewhat empty. Yeah the whole search for the Dragonstones was there to tell us some lore about the Gate, but the issue is that they could have done it better by having the Dragonstones used more than once to open the gate, rather than using it once and having it to never use it again. Lucia is implied to be the master of Ywon judging her dialogue in the end of Cyrus's story, but then we have Ywon stating that she was his student in his diary where he explained his deal with Lyblac and the translation of the knowledge of Life and Death, so which is it? She can still be the one pulling the strings, but she doesn't have to be his Master for that job, just her betraying him. Though i think i look way too deep into this and maybe you are right that Lucia is his master, who knows. It's not clear what Esmaralda wanted, i assume that she merely wanted to find more clues to Graham's past for the Obsidians, but considering that this Notebook only contains some outdated date and Tressa's personal journey, she gives up on the book and we fight her is for the sake of having a final boss fight to 1. Give Tressa something to fight and 2. make the obsidians look like some spooky threat lurking in the shadows, even if you kill thier master Simeon beforehand. Speaking of that dumbass, he is more or less a terrible villian for reasons you mentioned somewhere else. He was not one of the villians with the contradictionary goals( i mean why does he even work for her? after all, she also made him immortal)as seeing the world destroyed by Galdy is for this creep more than pleasure enough to fulfil his desire to please his evil urges, but he has a diffrent Problem that has to do with his parther, to him i come back later but before, let us pluck that Bird first: Lion or Ogre Eagle(i prefer Lion Eagle, despite Ogre Eagle being it's actual name) was the last challenge Alfyn faced, so it's an antagonist by definition and yeah, i know of the theory with ogen being the true antagonist of Alfyn due to thier diffrences in their Philosophies of threating Patients, but it was handled in a cardboard manner and i pretty much consider it one of the most pretentious and terrible of the Male storylines, because it pretends that Alfyn never killed anyone. Ogen being also used as a piece of info of Graham is kind of unnessesarly because they could have showed that in Chapter 2, instead he could have given the info that since his WIfe died, he never heard of him again, telling a rumour from old that he was last seen with some Woman...that is better as a piece of info than the name of a person i am supposed to care for from the start. Now with the bird finished, now i come to Matthias, the supposive friend of Simeon( his connection to him isn't even shown prior) and Savior of Orsterra.....From all the villians i mentioned with disconnected motives and purposes he is along with Werner are by far the most dissconnected one, because like Werner, he never had any interest in the ressurection of Galdera and was very much against the very idea of it, all told from his mouth in chapter 4 of Ophilia's story, he said when ask if he wanted to release Galdera:" Oh Perish the though. *I am not so foolish as that* ". He openly stated that he isn't there to ressurect Galdera but rather he wanted to use his power to sastify his ego, even though he works for a boss trying to do what he never even wanted to do in the first place. His ritual didn't even helped Lybac at all in her goals and Galdera returned with the help of lyblac an d Kit, there was no need of his existence rather than showing us the power of Matthias, but it was barebones. Oh and i already know that there is a backstory to the game that connects these Characters together, but it was merely backstory, not actual story. Most of these characters are treated like as if they would live in isles and that even includes in a similiar manner thier antagonist, who only were connected by some entries in the final dungeon because the devs couldn't write a overarching story. That's how we got seperate stories isolated from another,yet too dependant on one another to make sense, that is not how to write a story with multiple protagonists, Live a Live, Romancing Saga and Threasure of the Rudras did it much better. Lyblac was the accumilation of all thier problems, but her role in the story is made less significant by the lack of tension and immersion in the story by the time you meet her, that's the reason why these plot twists and extra lore can't fix the problem of the game. I agree on that last bit with a lack of reaction of the characters, i mean did the writers quit to write some lines of dialogues after they finished to write down the main stories of the Travellers. Lore inconsistency is an issue in octopath, but these inconsistencies are merely a sympthom of the bigger problem, the biggest problem is that the story are too disjoint, yet to interconnected to make sense to the player, that's why so many people are dissapointed by the lack of character interactions between both Heroes and Villians in the game. Despite of all of that, the stories are passable, but not great and in a sequel they need to have villains with more consistent goals. No need to apologize, i am guilty of the same.

[@zyrus917]

i find it very interesting that you critize almost everything that i love about this game. lets begin with the cities. To you, the lack of context between each story in the same town seems dissapointing. I guess its about seeing a connection between the characters. To me, this was also very surprigins, but i was happy about it. It fleshed out different aspects of the world. It didnt feel "out of touch" to me. To be honest, i would say that this particular choice of storytelling was a great step to build a deeper world. It gives one place not just "one niche". Now for the storystructure. I loved it. I think it was a very smart choice the go for that. This game is not your typical JRPG. Usually, the story goes on very stale, and at one point explodes. Suddenly you arent the little farmer of your village, but the redeemer of the holy-space-dragonegg, which is the key to open a portal where magic is infinite and could destroy the world if bad people get hands on it. Octopath travler is very different in the sense that, you see the story reflecting the character very clearly AND having development on top of that. Tressa is a child merchant. She is very naive, friendly and playful. She gets herself in unpleasent situations because of that, but these are also the traits that make her progression feel earned. Every single story is speciffically written to give their character meaning. I think i like all these "flaws" because it makes the game feel "down to earth" compared to other JRPGs

[@Shaterrer]

This video kept me thinking about Planescape: Torment and Torment: Tides of Numenera

[@uchennachidozie2037]

All 8 stories do tie into each other and it’s super cool when they do

[@OrdonWolf]

I disagree with your proposed solution. I love the game's sense of freedom, and think the game would be lesser for taking that away. Weariness from having played so many jrpgs which take themselves so seriously also has made me appreciate the simple, no nonsense nature of the stories and not mind the isolated structure at all. I do, however, miss there being a common plot (besides the excellent endgame stuff). My own proposal would have been to have a "9th story" that is only unlocked if you have all 8 party members, and can progress along the other storylines. That way the open nature of the game would still be intact, but you still get the satisfaction of all characters coming together. Just my two cents.

[@neobahumuth6]

Well tecnically that 9th story is there, but it's barebone. Idd it could've been much better if the fleshed the final sidequest more and maybe make it less obscure

[@Limayde]

Despite how many flaws this game has, the pros vastly outweigh the cons in my opinion. And those pros are what make Octopath something very special to me, and what I consider to be my favorite game of all time... at least for now.

[@gfdx3214]

If the game is ever turned into a show, the characters will definitely interact more with each other. I also bet that Olberic's Chapter 3 and H'aanit's Chapter 4 could easily be grouped together

[@starpier]

so far I agree with you on the story critique. Regarding the voice acting, you can always switch to the original japanese voices, this is something I always do when I play a JRPG. There is an aspect though, that nobody pointed out: what if the developers wanted precisely to have the 8 story arcs disconnected. It is hard for me to believe that they did not think at any time of making it a more cohesive story arc, it feels to me much more that the director wanted to give a specific flavour to the storytelling. The final result is of course not for everybody´s taste.

[@DustinMillerPolyInnovator]

SPOILER but valuable comment: - - I literally thought they were going to converge. I didn't know there were only four chaps per character. What if you could do four ending chapters that combined two characters? I honestly thought the savior from the cleric story was going to be the same big bad from the scholar story. They were the first two I finished, and then I started the hunters too, and she was talking about the beast with red eyes. Then the random guy from the merchant's final chapter, all of those could have been merged into the same character. Leaving a feeling of connectivity.

[@UsernameInvalidTHIS]

Man, this channel is great.

[@Stelum]

I'm actually surprised how well the characters can pair up from your idea of a better chapter 1, especially since they're just pairs that happen to start off next to each other. Alfyn/Therion and Prim/Olberic in particular. Also, funny story, having started with Tressa I noticed that her chapter 2 area is also Cyrus's. To be honest I half-expected their 2nd chapters to be connected when I started playing. Too bad though..

[@sonicrider321]

After playing a bit through chapter 1 of the game with each character I did have a suspicion of why these characters didn't interact. See, long ago I played a game called final fantasy the four heroes of light. You play as these four characters who generally have a similar goal to whom they are able to team up. Just like how Octopath didn't expand on it's characters, 4HOL really did what octopath didn't, by giving the freedom for characters to dispell to others and work around to the others for help and even teamwork to fight bosses or get an item to help them when they are stuck being an animal. I was so excited to play octopath and wanted to see this kind of interaction that I had in 4HOL but we didn't get that. Just hoping that we get a better octopath traveler sequel with the intentions and plot ties into different storylines

[@ryomahoshi643]

I actually don’t mind the lack of character interactions. It got me to use my imagination and come to my own interpretations on what was going on, and I had a lot of fun with that.

[@paraisabi]

(I AM BIASED BC THIS IS IN MY TOP 3 GAMES OF ALL TIME) In defense of the characters’ interactions: it’s optional picking up extra characters. You could very much play the entire game with only one, two, or three characters rather than a full party. I think that would’ve complicated each other speaking in the middle of their chapters. Also if they referenced each others’ chapters, you would need to have flags checked. Your proposal sounds R E A L L Y good, but I like how open it is. You could solo all 8, you could do a full playthrough with all 8. You could do a Nobles/Rogues playthrough. You could do the opposites playthrough (like how Therion and Tressa are two sides of the same coin) There’s a lot to do with making so much of the game optional and I wanna replay it several times

[@paraisabi]

Also with the ending talking about a random optional boss, I get it, there’s no incentive besides 100% playthroughs to get there. But when you do, you realize how everyone was connected all along and how the travelers kinda saved the whole world. Literally all of them were connected in the end. They could’ve (really should’ve) had something more obvious. I liked this video because you ultimately were right about a lot of things and it wasn’t hate, just a critique. I hope that the sequel can polish up some things and maybe even implement some of your own proposals.

[@JefryU]

Now I know what it means to wince

[@phantasydragon696]

I loved how the thief told his friend he can't come steal a jewel because he'd get him caught but finds you with 3 other people and is fine with 4 others following but not 1 extra.

[@HaitaniMasayuki]

I can't believe how often I have to tell you guys this! That's NOT "Old English"! It's Early Modern English. Old English was spoken at the 400s and sounds more like Dutch than anything else.

[@Saiavinn]

But that's long winded, and "Early English" gives the impression of an unfinished language. You're right, but I just don't like your alternative. :/

[@Rex13013]

@@Saiavinn Agreed.

[@bishop6881]

Yeah and while we’re at it Tis and Ye are just This and The, the T/Y alpha used to be a theta and made a “thuh” sound so have fun with the knowledge of knowing every Ye is wrong

[@aFewBitsShort]

Ye olde English

[@scienceteam9254]

10:20 you pretty much made a ff6 clone by that point

[@DesignDoc]

what's wrong with that

[@scienceteam9254]

@@DesignDoc nothing. i'm just saying that that's kind of how ff6 handled its first half, nothing against that

[@tehdave192]

the h'aanit part really annoyed me too, I'm German, but I played the game in English with Japanese dub, and reading that all the time just made me hope the character arc finally ends soon

[@TalysAlankil]

Amen to the issue with bosses being damage sponges. I also have a lot of issue with some of the later optional bosses getting way too many turns / hit-all attacks. It's the only way to make them hard given the game's systems, but it makes them feel unfair instead. As far as interweaving plot lines…I have to point out there is a connected conclusion with the Gate of Finis…but it's a sidequest. Which was probably the wrong move.

[@starblazer237]

Actually, speaking of voice acting, while H'aanit has some weird dialogue, all the dialogue in Ophelia's final boss fight is perfect, some of the best I've heard

[@dbo3akrowdy]

I agree with most everything except the "final boss popped out of nowhwere" every final chapter hinted at the return of the dark God (Especially ophelias)

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

I'd have vastly preferred it if you had to choose one character as the main one and follow their story and they would provide the perspective from which you see the main story, which seems to be missing from the actual game, for the most part, then have the opportunity to recruit some or all of the others and help them with their personal quests. And "help" is the key word here; instead of going through the whole thing, they would do a large part of their own quests behind the scenes, and you would only aid them in a side quest or a few. They would also do their own thing when you haven't yet met them, so that they would actually move around the map from chapter to chapter. Some of them might not get along with each other, some might kill each other if you hadn't recruited them, or fall in love after getting to know each other if you had. That would have encouraged people who really like the game to play through the whole thing 8 times from different perspectives to see everything it has to offer without bloating the development too much. But I guess they wanted to go the "player has to see everything on a single playthrough" route.

[@LarryNoir]

I somewhat disagree and think that there doesn't need to be a cohesive story between all characters. Im ok with doing things differently and having separate stories for each character. What I do wish for though is better integration of party members in each character's own story. There was a moment in one of Tressa's chapters where she has to acquire a map that is crazy expensive. Therion tells her that he could just steal it and she denies his help. That would have been a cool choice between doing things the noble way and having to use more resources or doing it the rogue way and risking getting caught and alienated by the town. Each character has such strong notable traits that I think this kind of structure could have worked really well. Need to get some info from a guy? Maybe have the option to have Primrose seduce him and gain it that way. Need to track someone down? Hannit can have her animals sniff out the trail rather than you needing to bother everyone in town with questions. Just a few examples but I think the game would have benefited greatly from that structure. Not only does it integrate the characters better, but it gives you an incentive to try other party members out rather than rolling with the same 4 which im sure a lot of people did.

[@anthonykarnes6804]

The game feels like it had a handle held philosophy in mind, plays best in small runs at a time. Each chaptervid about an 1 hour or so

[@mx.e2176]

You commented on the marathon style boss fights, not even mentioning the secret boss(es) at the end of the game. I won’t spoil it, but if you lose the fight it blows really hard.

[@SwerveStarEx]

I feel obliged to mention... I THINK it was Secret of Mana 3? If memory serves, that game has 6 different possible player characters, of which you get 3, and your story will have slight variance depending on which 3 you get and in what order you get them... I haven't actually played the game, I mostly just heard of it and watched a few eps of an LP forever ago.

[@gdaymaster8499]

Octopath traveler is honestly a good game in my opinion, and I will admit some spot do need work (Look at you god wolf in Whispermill) The storyline I'll admit can get completely messed up, but the way I see it is the group travels from town to town, and when something is needed to be done there, then they do it. Again it sucks that they didn't have your other three members comment every now and then, and you can just skip one traveler all together, but they normally have the chapters at a certain level and difficulty that has you do all chapters 1-4 first pretty much.

[@NextstepBadger]

Honestly... Even time I hear Hannit I keep expect some kid to run in yelling "Miss Thou! Miss Thou!"

[@dogryme6]

This is like Live A Live all over again, but with 2000% more dialogue.

[@AlifHarsanPradipto]

Octopath Traveler looks like took inspiration from the old Saga series (Romancing/Frontier) for it's mechanic/story, so I understand most of it's pitfall and advantage. At least it will be released on PC. Will definitely play it until SquareEnix released another Saga games...

[@The_Court_Poet]

It’s easy to kiss but all the stories do actually connect. By completing a couple sidequests you can actually fight the toughest boss of the game and the true final boss, Galderra. Every single character’s story intertwines in the lead up to Galderra’s release from his prison at the gates of Finis.

[@djpigeon9140]

I finally finished the game and I had been waiting until then to watch this

[@abelstypewriters]

I think that this is a winning proof of concept. A relatively small team can do amazing things. As an English player I found that switching to Japanese dialogue on top of English text was a lot more enjoyable.

[@Musikur]

I actually completely agree with this. This type of story telling has been done before, games like Chronotrigger did the optional party members who each have a unique take certain plot points far better, and it was disappointing that a game about 8 people is basically 8 games about 1 person loosely tied together. And it also means that the weaker characters like Tressa and Alphin become insufferable when you have to put up with an hour of their story at a time. At the very least I expected to start hearing about how all of their individual stories were connected to some overaching plot around the 2nd or 3rd chapter.

[@user-gj3ji8dt2f]

I adore that the story is spilt. What I dislike is that the side quest stories requires all 8 character’s story has no interaction. I also believe that the games stories wasn’t meant to be grand or rich it was meant to be 8 small nice short stories

[@withnosensetv]

Regarding voice acting, I actually switched to the japanese voice lines just because then I could detach them from the dialogue that was shown. Since I had no idea what they were actually saying it felt more like in a game like Hollow Knight with meaningless voice lines that underline the dialogue, which made it a lot more bearable

[@GameAGuy]

Octopath is awesome fun and adictive as hell. God the music is phenominal. Love this game.