Destiny 2 Lightfall - MAJOR STORY ISSUES? It's Not THAT Bad

[@EvazeOfficial]

Lightfall’s main campaign was disappointing. If some aspects were better explained, it may have made a difference! While the main story is what most people will judge, I personally have been enjoying the additional quest and content that add-on to the story. Let’s hope the Final Shape really delivers. Players were super hyped for LIghtfall, to get answers to questions we’ve been waiting for over the last year and since Destiny 1. What they got was more questions. The overall expansion is not a failure to me, just some aspects of it’s delivery. Let’s hear your thoughts below! I still enjoy Destiny's story. Wanted to mention the obvious story issues. Lore and story videos will continue

[@flamingscar5263]

I think final shape will be epic My running theory to just what the hell happened with LF is that it's stuck being the forgotten middle child Bungie works on 3 expansions at once, we've known this for awhile, seeing as witch queen was so God damn good it makes me feel like the writing team put almost everything into witch queen and the rest into final shape, leaving LF with barely any resourceses left allocate to it

[@ablestmage]

It makez zero sense why both Zavala and Ikora seem to think the traveler is either gone or dead, because it's neither. The traveler is still with us, and they're acting that it has left us. It being just above the city or high in the atmosphere makes no difference. We still have the light, and Zavala is being so sadface for really no discernible reason other than purely aesthetics of the view..

[@starlight_prince]

@@ablestmage apparently what ever the witness did 'killed' the traveler somehow but then why do we have our light? unless our light originates from something other than the traveler, and the traveler's shell/body is merely the relay for the light to reach us

[@imnotgivingyoumyname810]

What bugs me about destiny in its current form is that nothing is shown. We just deal with the aftermath. Would of liked to see calus rool up into the new city. Instead, we just jump in when it's all done, It's silly.

[@carlphillips3876]

@@starlight_princeThat answer makes sense. The Traveller is merely a terraforming engine. The doorway that opened for the Witness leads to the real source of out light.

[@jonathansnyder9848]

If this was our infinity war, we learned nothing about thanos, why he wanted the stones, what the stones did, nothing . It was like he gets the final stone and someone tells us we lost without having any idea of what was going on.

[@ParisPK]

This had to be the most underwhelming story of all time. They had a full year developing this dlc and it felt so empty and lackluster. They should’ve just either scrapped this dlc or delayed it because this wouldn’t even change the story one bit with this dlc. Like The Lightfall marketing team should receive a huge raise because they fr fooled people like me to buying it and now I regret buying it

[@jonathansnyder9848]

@@ParisPK yeah I agree, the marketing got me so excited. None of that stuff had anything to do with the campaign hahaha

[@Neo_onmarz]

Great explanation

[@ChugNuts]

The lore explains a lot, but it was by far the worst expansion

[@bruizedbanana5843]

Yeah but we did learn why he wanted the stones and what they did at the end lmao

[@jimklein5491]

Your comparison to Witch Queen is on point. Bungie established a mystery, and we solved it in the main campaign. Failing to do that basic work with Lightfall is nothing less than a failure on the narrative team's part.

[@blueberry4Us]

I think narrative team is Fine and they did excellent job on Overal story telling! But Real problem comes with director and Management team! Final shape didnt exist! In beyond light Original plan was Witch queen then Lightfall !They changed plan (the reason is what they Said in GDC about not making another forsaken and trainstation building)! Also actually WQ Supposed to be top tier DLC! Strand was originally for WQ expansion and those deepsight(3rd eye) area was for finding strand! Neomuna was actually the 2nd Destination in WQ DLC! WQ dlc Supposed to be Amazing! Look 3 month delay for WQ was for making Rushed recycled irrelevant seasons for to fill the empty spot! You can go and see The warlock Strand super sign is on the middle of his throneworld chest armor! Thats why you see WQ had Fantastic Campaign but Worst Miserable Seasons! Its just sad how they ripped apart their best work just for profit and money!

[@Anchor-Supreme]

I would’ve been fine with Osiris being so pissy if I even knew what the Veil. It’s hard for me to feel any motivation in finding and protecting the maguffin when I don’t even know what it is or does. Personally, I think it would’ve worked way better to make Strand an almost 100% postgame quest, with a small teaser during the campaign. It hijacked much of what little story there was, and basically made it Beyond Light 2.0.

[@steve43ful]

People complain about not liking the new characters (and I don't love them either) but I'm tired of Osiris and his vocal performance and it feels like 80% of the game is him yelling at us and everyone else.

[@HawkBassBoost]

I think that’s also a perfect contrast to Witch Queen where, yes, there wasn’t a new subclass, but void was essentially massively overhauled in a way that one could debate felt entirely new. And yet, Witch Queen did not focus on it at all, and just let the narrative play out. And because of that, we had a lot of our questions answered rather than leaving no room for any useful narration. It’s just sad to see how we went from BL to WQ and then back again to what happened with BL all over again.

[@ShynLamo]

​​@@steve43ful curse of nezarek. He's likely less emotionally stable because of the relics revival of him However we really needed more answers than anything and strand took that away a tad

[@litsavage4656]

If we’ve could’ve gotten strand on that mission where we are at that spot it would be better it was good overall

[@Snorlaxsnaxx]

@@ShynLamo I like this theory. This makes him more attuned to using the darkness, considering it is linked to emotion and perspective (which makes sense since nezarec was a disciple). This would explain his proficiency with strand. Also, paracausality is likely a spectrum of the physical to abstract. The veil reminds the ghost of the traveler, but is also connected to the neomuni. In their folklore it is represented as a river. It's likely what manifested strand for our guardian, given form through paracausality (the veil being the more tangible side of the gradient, as your guardian is able to interact with everything using strand).

[@Brutal4152]

“I don’t have time to explain why I don’t have time to explain” that’s how I take this whole situation, it seems like only Osiris and the Cloudstriders are the only ones that know what the veil is. we didn’t have time for anyone to explain the veil, we just had to go with it

[@galetheimpaler7077]

Seems they hired back whoever wrote Destiny's 1 story.

[@Cook-by-the-book]

@@galetheimpaler7077 argh! Or they pulley a destiny one and scrapped the original story for lightfall and rewrite it in less than a year, but rather than a website to fall back on story, they’ll sell it to people via seasons.

[@chillievans]

You realise i dont have time to explain why i dont have time is the laziest writing

[@Brutal4152]

@@chillievans You realize* I didn’t ask lmao

[@brawnbayer4654]

My favorite part of the story is that literally the entire campaign is irrelevant and our actions had zero consequences. We spent literally the whole story trying to stop them from getting the veil. They get it, and now nothing is happening and all the bad stuff they said would happen............didnt happen

[@hattorihonzo5804]

Exactly

[@pinkyogurt6359]

My favorite part is how this expansion is called "LIGHTFALL," and the only light that was lost in this entire story is that random guardian that got torn to shreds. Ghaul did a better job. 2/10 my disappointment is immeasurable

[@Timmyhimmyhhhh]

@@pinkyogurt6359 who?

[@grzegorzflorek5623]

​@@Timmyhimmyhhhh Dominus Ghaul, leader of the Red Legion, and the main villain of D2 vanilla campaign (The Red War).

[@TeKnoVKNG23]

Not to mention in the end we were the catalyst to help the witness do whatever it was that it wanted to achieve with the veil.

[@church0880]

I would have liked to reuse that Deepsight mechanic from Witch Queen, where we'd pick up an item from Neomuna and take it back to Savathun's Altar of Reflection, and learn the story that way. That would've been fine. Instead, I have literally more questions than I have answers after playing the campaign.

[@Shoes8969]

Based on phrasing that we get, I believe that the Veil is the Heart of the Traveller. In WQ's ending the Witness says the Traveller's PALE HEART holds the key, from a quest after Lightfall we find out that the BLACK HEART in the Black Garden was a Vex attempt at copying the Veil, perhaps to the point of taking the name of Heart from it.

[@Tlal0c]

Holy shit you’re onto something

[@gizdurango0135]

Would make sense. On one side you have the Light, the Traveler, and the Veil (Light heart ig), and on the other you have the Darkness, the Witness, and the Black Heart

[@AdrianRodriguez-zs1lo]

That makes sense, but now that they retconned what light and darkness are it makes things even more confusing. Also, the vex being able to recreate a paracausal entity??

[@kalaninalak]

I believe that the pale heart is actually a reference to how we are cold blooded when it comes to our own aims. Think about it. All our violence and ultimately killing Calus, alongside Caiatl, is what leads to us being in position so that the witness can get access to the veil through our ghost.

[@fab5haus]

I was thinking that too, especially the fact that the Witness used it to access the inside of the traveler. When the witness tried the first time, that’s when it had the vision of the veil, aka the “key to open the portal! The question is, if it really is the travelers heart, how did savathun get it there, why do the branches look like the darkness branches, and what is the extent of the power? We know it breaks and reforms the fabric of the universe (aka strand and the inter dimensional portal opened on the traveler, but what is the connection to it and its abilities

[@wolfcoma]

Kinda like the writers forget to tell each other where each part of their story should connect.

[@lordsaladito]

It felt more like a story about getting strand than defending the traveler and stopping calus

[@prof.snopes6239]

Imo Beyond Light which was a little boring at least had a better story. You got stasis but it wasn't just focused on you learning stasis.

[@Zymzack]

Man I just noticed the triangle ships surrounding the traveller make it look kinda like a big ghost

[@hwalnut7202]

in the destinations tab its positioning really made me think of the sun

[@DrJTPhysio]

Looks like Sagira

[@lucazade1]

Now that having darkness as a power isn't new, I hope that if another subclass comes out then it is part of a side set of missions like in Taken King.

[@koldraxonofthefirstseven5718]

That was my expectation with Strand for Lightfall and unlocking an alt Stasis super. Neither happened. Then again I skipped playing, watched someone else, was disappointed.

[@alternateaccount7940]

For every good part there’s some strange inexcusable part 1. The Witness is genuinely scary in how they kill guardians and scare Callus but the Vanguard didn’t even do anything besides standing at the Helm, but worse than that after the campaign they don’t seem to be all that broken up about the Traveler and when they say it’s “gone” like ??? What? It’s not broken? How do they know that? What do they mean? 2. Piggybacking off that, The Veil is mentioned more in off handed remarks after the main narrative than the main narrative in which it’s the WHOLE POINT, and Strand being so shoved in out faces, on top of it being functionally useless, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The grapple takes forever to recharge for what it gives you and at this point its just another element to worry about. Not to mention we put all that time into explaining and training with Strand but we can’t access most of it? It has to be unlocked after the Raids come out? So it feels like we learned jack shit. 3. Speaking of raids, Nezerec was a really cool reveal and the idea that Nezerecs Sin unlocks secret dialogue is ballsy and I appreciate the consistency! Why is that reveal, of a character I’ve heard of in item descriptions, more impactful THAN THE FUCKING VEIL!? 3. The characters on, all fronts, felt a little hit or miss. I loved Osiris getting emotional and learning a “new perspective” from the darkness but without the context he has/doesn’t have on the veil it made me feel like I couldn’t connect with him by proxy. He especially should be the veil’s lore dump. 4. I LOVE Cloud Striders lore wise, aesthetically, and after all is said and done I love Nimbus and Rohan. But again they don’t react how they should. Caiatl’s “we just lost” and half of Nimbus’ dialogue give me Forspoken vibes in a bad way. Rohan’s sacrifice might have had weight if we knew anything about him or got to know him beyond “an old protector” or if his death came from a big scale battle but instead he dies to destroy a tool from Callus in a random battle? Why? It seemed so forced like we already cleared the room and sure he was about to die but still in that moment it wasn’t necessary. Nimbus barely even reacted to anything, and fuck lore excuses, he should have AT LEAST portrayed that he was holding off his grief which could implied sure but I shouldnt have to imply that it should be obvious. 5. It was short and meaningless. We moved at a break neck speed only to learn nothing and fail without knowing what went wrong. It was so ineffective in fact, that later Nimbus and Osiris casually mention that Rohan found the Vex had created the “Black Heart” as a failed copy of the Veil. WHAT!? That’s a lore connection from NINE FUCKING YEARS AGO with no refresher or explanation??? The end of D1!?? And because we still don’t know what the Veil is, we can’t know what the Black Heart is. Why are we able to extrapolate more from Witness trailer dialogue than our in game allies? The season pass has nice armor… 10/10 gonna play it daily Edit: I have experimented with Strand since everything got unlocked and like it for how different it is but of all the points I mentioned its still doesn't make the expansion anything more than the worst yet. It'll make getting the season pass armor more fun

[@Jake42100]

Lol I agree with everything except that last line, Had to give it up myself.

[@brothermouzon]

Foolishly I hoped for a sparrow surf board like the Cloud Striders, needless to say I am infuriated.

[@DeepStone-6]

Ok this one is on you dude 😂

[@jasonhannah7483]

That would take talent that Bungie clearly does not have. It would be cool.

[@Deltadog55]

Well..........im glad this comment became outdated because we have skimmers.

[@brothermouzon]

@@Deltadog55 the scream I scrumpt when I saw that shit for guardian games lolol

[@iamoctonate]

"How do we come back from this?" -Ghost "You Don't," Ghaul. How the narrative looks after this expansion mauled 5+ years of set up.

[@dougcarey2233]

You know, I can see the writers taking for granted that they know what's going on and forgetting that we don't have all the info that they have. It still rankles, but I think they'll take this lesson to heart and fix the narrative issues, assuming they aren't just shooting from the proverbial hip.

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

And what evidence would even come close to suggesting that Bungie learns anything? They're still having the same issues SINCE D1. We thought WQ was a turning point but CLEARLY that was a fluke

[@dougcarey2233]

@@ThomasTheTankEngine22 if I were a super cynical person, I would say that most at Bungie have learned some hard lessons over the years, but the problem is that the decision makers above them quit listening to those people who actually give a sh!t about the game once they start saying things like, "we really need more time to flesh out the narrative," or, "no, I won't write in your egotistical self-insert of an NPC because he's an absolute cringe machine." It's not like I know from experience, it's just a hunch.

[@BigWhiskey09]

It's Bungie we are talking about here. Of course they are just shooting from the hip

[@dougcarey2233]

@@BigWhiskey09 As much as I'd love to agree, I doubt very much that any multi billion dollar company ever shoots from the hip when it comes to things like this. If they are, well then they're getting what they earned, judging by the reviews.

[@grzegorzflorek5623]

​@@BigWhiskey09 Ayo, Bungie, game development isn't like using the Last Word at all. You can't just hipfire and except to hit most of your shots. Just if any Bungie dev is listening...

[@MyNameIsSalo]

it felt like i paid $75 to be teased into paying for each season this year to actually explain the lightfall story. The campaign setup the first plot points of a years worth of stories, which will end with the witness dying and us gaining a deeper understanding of the light vs darkness stuff. Compared to say the witch queen, which was the culmination of a years worth of stories into one campaign. Its like all the stuff that happened between witch queen and lightfall was small irrelevant plot points, so lightfall had to start from scratch. Also it focused way too hard on learning strand, they made it sound like strand was some ultimate weapon we will use to beat calus, but when you get to calus the strand spawn is entirely optional and isn't even mentioned, so even the strand storyline lead up to nothing. That said, it's still destiny. Expect nothing and still be disapointed, but still play and have fun regardless.

[@p3wb0yp1mp]

My main problem isnt all the questions. Its that everyone acts like they know whats going on, even our character, but we personally have no clue what we are doing and what importance it will do. Even a simple dialog during a mission with osiris couldve fixed it all. Just while we are running, have our ghost be like "hey osiris have we even found out what this "veil" is?" And then osiris tells us what he knows. The stuff like where the tormentors originate, the veil beam, witness going inside the traveler, the pyramids around the traveler, even our ghost being possessed. Im all ok with not knowing right now because it sent a clear threat as in we heavily underestimated him because he knows what we dont and can do what we cant. But even the avengers knew what the infinity gauntlet could be capable of. While we sitting here like "whats the veil do". We literally flew away from a war in our home base to go get it.... WHY😂

[@tiktikboom2371]

One things for sure… the soundtrack during the campaign was EPIC!!

[@Hammer_Of_Olympia]

Yeah I’m fairly underwhelmed with the story at least. Not to mention the fact they killed off Rohan and made it out to be some really sad thing but I felt like we had little to no interaction with him. Idk, I just felt the story was rushed and anticlimactic

[@galetheimpaler7077]

That's how you get scammed out of $100 in 2023.

[@jacobcervantes8961]

The best way to describe this is that this should've felt big and deep, but instead it felt small and off topic

[@TheAlmightyPrime]

The weapon and side quest explained more about the Veil than the main story. We only found out what the Witness wanted with the Veil, but we didn't found out where the witness went after opening a portal into the Traveler. I really hope this year that it is explained more.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

I was pretty confident I had the veil figured out, so I was excited to either be right or get jossed. but we don't get any explanation for it beyond it being the power source for the second life server the neptunians live in. none of the things I've been wondering about were either proved or disproved.

[@cristiancampos38]

Can you at least tell me what you think it is my heart has a void because of this

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@cristiancampos38 I feel ya man. ok, so I think the veiled woman statues we've been seeing in various places in the game over the past several years are depictions of the enemy of the Witness. My theory is the Traveler is just a ship like the pyramids and the Veil (for lack of a better name) is the one piloting it. When the Witness says stuff like "you have no pieces left to place" he's saying you're down to one ship but I still have a whole fleet and I can beat you. The Veil is either some object that keeps the veiled woman hidden from the Witness (which is why he didn't know where she was until he was right in front of the Traveler) or the name of the character he's fighting. She hid herself on Neptune at some point as a last-ditch effort to buy time. This next part I'm really unsure on but it's fun to imagine at least. I think the tree of silver wings on Io from a few seasons ago was put there to try and make a new Traveler. It spent a lot of time with a pyramid overhead doing who knows what to it though so I have no clue what it'll do when it's brought back into the story.

[@yurpcrusher123]

The scariest part ….was your statement. “Imagine if the FINAL SHAPE ended how Lighfall did” Yikes

[@Fr0stguard]

Playing the campaign solo legendary the strand parts felt more like a handicap more than a buff on the titan.

[@taimohansen2162]

Just a theory of mine: I think the reason why we didnt learn anything about the veil is that, we dont know what it does or what it is. Because in the campaign we were too focused on taking down calus, his army and the Witness, for their use of it. So we didnt have time to learn anything about it. And Also at the same time training with strand. And this is where the lightfall raid comes in. The raid will probably give us SOME answers of the veil, but not all of it. (Tere might be like a in game cutscene, where we learn about the veil). We have two shots. One is 6 gurdians overlooking neomuna (from end of AS LIGHT FALLS vidoc), and the second is raid picture. With that in mind, the raid might take place in Neomuna, but in the deepest part of Ishtar collective facility. The other way we can learn about the veil, is by asking from the witch queen herself. During witch queen expansion, we find out that Savathun was trickted by the Witness to go in to the deep, and not getting the light. He even sent Rhulk to her throne world so that she can join them. (But beeing the god of cunning) she betrayed them. In the final mission. Savathun was triyng to seal the traveler to her throne world, maybe to proctect it from the Witness, knowing he was too powerful. During the first collapse, we belive that Savathun hid the veil on neptune, so that the Witness does not get his hands on it. And that might be the reason why traveler rewived savathun as a gurdian, because the traveler might have seen that she was triyng to save us. At the final mission, we kill Savathun, but her chost gets away, and Ikora says theyre coming to secure the remains, by saying that, we have Savathuns seas body smoewhere. So maybe during one of the seasons, we are running out of options, so Osiris thinks of asking Savathun. Her allready having a chost, means she still has her memorys, and she might help us.

[@steeltywars1]

Agreed that we'll learn more from the raid and/or whatever content is unlocked after the first clear.

[@treezytrey88]

also theres an entire year to focus on that with the seasonal content i came back for seraph and that weekly content was great

[@kiwee4577]

In the community there are always a group of people who just want a straight process of getting to know the entire thing while being in the action, rather than playing it and then looking up the why we play it in other people's vids. I myself didn't quiye enjoy grinding for these 'fragments of lore' that are scattered accross weapons, armor etc. So i always look to byf or you to get the entire picture of the lore But then again tis might be just be me problem who don't have enough time in life to put an effort to this

[@reggielacey2235]

Also...was it ever explained how osiris got strand besides that one cutscene

[@UhhStarZzRtk]

The raid will answer all your questions... Also we've had a lot of lore leading up to this point...but shame on bungie for making difficult to access...as far as you would of had to connect the dots as far back as vanilla d2 etc etc... All I'm thinking is the veil will be our new source of light and Nezerac is a God of many gods...who will help us defeat the witness....also the tormentors are related to nezerac as they deal with the void.... Also crazy but destiny takes place in a single universe but related to many universes... I believe Nezerac comes from the very universe that the gardener and the winnower come from...the veil is most likely the way to access said universe.. Could be wrong but if you took an interest in the lore especially the lore we've gotten surrounding Nezerac...then this campaign and ending starts to make sense....sorry for the article but it's super relevant to the story

[@UhhStarZzRtk]

Forgot to add in the lore for Nezeracs sin it says everything we need to know specifically...he is the final God of pain... Meaning if he survives off fear and suffering and the witness is going around universes wiping out species and civilizations suffering etc etc....then it would make sense why he would have a vested interest in ending the witness... But I'm not for certain what it would mean if we fight him and kill him maybe in this timeline or universe...I really think people will be blown away once this all comes closer to the end...haha

[@Antigone10]

Just to spite you Bungie will make the universe we play in a game simulation in a warmind from the real universe. Your move in the gardening a simulation universe Bungie. But seriously, I think you are pretty close with your theory. Heck, if other universes are separated by just a veil, we likely have encountered intrusions or communications from them already. I mean, magical wishes and dimensions outside of normal space? Time travel to move between universe possibilities.... Gardener and Winnower shaping one universe at a time while the Witness watches except this time he took control of the Darkness and left the current iteration of the game behind.

[@timfusco365]

Lackluster is...being generous. To dissect all the issues with this campaign would take way to long in the comments. Let's just say this didn't feel like "our end". If this was the MCU Lightfall feels like a filler movie between Infinity War and Endgame.

[@zombeedegenerate6974]

Gamers: "what is the Veil?" Bungie: "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"

[@emmanuelhernandez3200]

Don’t worry guys just wait for the next expansion and another 99$ to get the finally. Worst case in D3 you finally get to go inside the veil.

[@crimson1190]

I feel that strand should have some lower ability cooldowns especially for some of the less potent abilities such as the hunters threaded spike or the grapple for all classes, otherwise it feels extremely restricted navigating sections of Neomuna waiting for the grapple cooldown.

[@douglaswalker7707]

im sorry but is that bad narratively, this is the second to last expansion in the story of destiny,and they failed to awnser any important plot points, imo this is a worse story than shadowkeep, and half the story was god damn strand training arc, and were supposed to care about roham someone we met 30 minutes ago? and not one time did osiris even ask what the veil is nor does any character even try to properly explain it

[@zacharystilson9663]

I kinda got a feeling that the raid is going to explain a lot. Not to mention that we have a season called season of the deep. Which I’m 99% sure will be all about the darkness. It would be nice for these seasons to fill in some holes and build up to the final shape. Would’ve been better though if we just explained a couple of things. 1 what’s the veil. 2 what happens when the witness links with it? And 3 why we didn’t use strand to pull are ghost down?

[@galetheimpaler7077]

It's already been teased the raid it's about Nezarec's nightmare. Like that is what we want to know rn.

[@zacharystilson9663]

@@galetheimpaler7077 I hope the raid gives some background on the witness. Where it’s most likely going to be a raid abt Nezrac it’d be cool if he reveals more about the witness and it’s goals. I doubt it’ll reveal much about the veil tho sadly.

[@punchline1729]

I hope the raid conditions in terms of lore and gameplay conceal some of the campaign flaws

[@ZeroAxle]

This dlc felt more like a season that was not drip fed and just having extra steps.

[@blaziec8209]

It feels like a different team made this story when compared to witchqueen or forsaken

[@jakedrago7805]

The way the story unfolded reminded me of the TV series “The Blacklist”each previous episode builds up the secrets to be revealed only for you to be left with more questions than answers in the next .

[@kineticstar]

Destiny Devs: I have time to explain why I didn't have time to explain!

[@hahaxdd313]

i feel like the original idea they probably had for lightfall ( i.e the vibe the oringal lightfall cover art looked like) would have been better than this aesthetic they wanted to steer in, at this point lol.

[@starknightplays3970]

I really wanted them to go more in depth because this was a huge lead up to a controversy that we’ve been dealing with over the years and it was kinda disappointing tbh😢

[@ThyyRFLeX8]

I mean i get your point with there still being a story after the campaign but like the story happend. The witness came and did what he said he would. Anything after explaining why and how the witness did this Is good don't get me wrong but the main impact is gone since we learn after said events. You get one time to make an impact we are one step from "new shape" and we still playing tehehe it's a secret this was the time you show us exactly why an entity like the witness is so important instead he does nothing and when he actually does something he's already gone

[@gusarovd]

The Veil somehow allowed to transfer consciousness of whole Neomuna into Cloud Arc. So it acted like Darkness with Exos.

[@gubynlg8740]

So anyone have any speculations on Nezarec, the weird pods in both the veil and the farm, or even the strange mini pyramid at the tower hidden in the top of the new tree? I main a warlock and recently reread the Nezarec's sin helmet lore and idk but i feel like somethings up there

[@AdrianRodriguez-zs1lo]

I think that the largest failure of the game comes from its seasonal format. It drip feeds content and over explains over a long period of time, but it under explains in the moment.

[@ashton6599]

After the campaign the lmg quest goes far into how nimbus felt after Rohann died

[@Ruggedtoaster]

Ah we are back to “I don’t have time to explain why I don’t have time to explain” school of destiny story telling

[@vincentsanabria]

People keep comparing this to the infinity stones but the difference is your paying 100$ every half ass ending

[@adrianbarnes9776]

I havent finished the story. But main gripes already. 1. I know the witness and Osiris knew about Neptune, but the way we just landed there in the escape pod seemed pretty lazy and cheap writing. 2. Strand is just lying around waiting for us to obtain without any reasoning. Feels like cut content to me. Anyways I don't play much at all now and was only interested in the campaign. Grateful I didn't buy the annual pass

[@EmmL1223]

Neomuna feels more like running through the last city if it we’re more lit up.

[@dankvada4588]

game: this sooooooo advanced city me: sees poorly done Cyberpunk Mobile meets Metaverse Titan that got a paint job and highway Story: 80% Strand tutorial and a boss fight

[@blitzkri3gg]

1:17 is got to be my favorite part about destiny lol

[@sand9577]

Lightfall exacerbated what I hate the most about Bungie. They are constantly waving in front of everyone the "next big thing" but when it comes to deliver the next big thing, it's a couple of drops, barely enough to say they did the thing, but NEVER enough for it to feel rewarding. And then they immediately begin to waving the next big thing. These story expansions feel almost like a grift by now, always squishing money out of us, but never giving us enough to have any closure. Closure is not compatible with a living world like Destiny.

[@Ootek_Imora]

So looking at the veil it kinda looked (at least from the top) like an artificial black hole maybe some kinda paracausal singularity, like the black heart in the garden?

[@DAERAMDZ2]

I personally liked the campaign a lot. It gave me HALO 3/ODST vibes. The story will be laid out throughout the next year. I don’t understand why people think it would be different this time around.

[@MyNameIsSalo]

because it was different last time. The witch queen campaign had a start and end. The seasons that followed showed the aftermath of the witch queen, and then setup for calus and the witness. Lightfall has a start. There is no end to the story. It was designed to sell us a years worth of season passes as the main story will be told through the seasons, rather than through the main story. The DLC was inconsequential to the story. Whether we went to Jupiter or not had no effect on the story at large. Whether we learnt strand or not had no importance to the ending of the dlc. Nothing mattered

[@Moises_Rodrigues_Pereira]

To be Fair, I just wanted at least a single dialogue line telling me what is the Veil

[@nickcattonoffical]

I think the story was abit off but I think we learnt alot about the Guardian and the Witness. The Guardian is clearly made for leadership as he commanded Caitel, Osiris and Nimbus and they all followed without question. The Witness clearly is hiding something as Calus struck a nearve which made The Witness lose composure which no one has ever seen. Theory on The Guardian, Zavala dies in the final shape and he appoints the Guardian as the new Vanguard Commander in his final moments. The Guardian then defends the city in his way. The Witness clearly went through a truama that made him want to accept the darkness and end the universe, possibly I think it is one of 2 things. 1. he lost his family and is greiving and is trying to end all life and in his eyes this is the only way. 2. Before he joined the darkness he was once a lightbearer but his arrogance and lust for power made the traveler revoke his power and then the witness was exiled by his own people. This could possible be revenge or a belif that he and he alone should weild both the light and the darkness

[@rytr0nious]

I dont think the Witness wants to end the universe, I think the Witness wants to stop the game from being played. The Witness seems to have broken a hole in reality and stepped into what I can only assume is the actual Garden where the Winnower and Gardener exist. I think the Witness' plan is to kill the Winnower and Gardener and stop their control on reality. The Witness is clearly an amalgamation of people or consciousness. What if they are the remnants of previous universes?

[@nickcattonoffical]

@@rytr0nious who knows

[@alvarocamacho3232]

That Sagira scene really hit tho

[@cleews_]

As a player who has been playing Destiny off and on for the last 10 years, you say that the main campaign never explained what the Veil is. We don't even know what the Traveller is, and that golf ball is apparently the source of all our power and problems. And tbh, I don't expect Bungie to explain anything about this because somehow the loremasters think it is fun to dangle hints of lore about the Traveller and its 'kind' then feeling the need to explain everything in full.

[@adg3793]

thoughts b4 i watch the vid: -the campaign felt rushed and kinda "montage-y" - there were many many bugs that i and my friends ran into (like not progressing missions) -we never really got an explanation of the veil, which is fine, but couldve explained how the skyark is linked to it. -strand was amazing in the campaign, but sadly after the campaign we realized that the cooldowns were pretty bad overall i did really enjoy playong it, but narratively it fell a little short... not god aweful, but not 100% hype either. so ig kinda mid. now i do give bungo some benefit of the doubt here, bc half of this dlc was being worked on durring the pandemic (which messed a lot of stiff up for a lot of ppl) so im glad we even got a dlc... the other option probably wouldve been a whole yr without a dlc... all in all 7/10 for me.

[@yursk12]

I feel like we just went backwards to OG destiny 1 storytelling ngl

[@nickcampos8526]

The main story didn't really answer any questions but in fact created more questions I was very disappointed with the main story this time around especially given how good the last season was.

[@StraightFromTheAbove]

2:19 Anyone know what bow he is using here?

[@TheDesiredShadow]

I view this more of a " set up " Campaign where the final shape will make all clear of what the story is. still a good campaign and not disappointing at all IMO.

[@1candondor]

I gave destiny another shot at witchqueen and beat it kinda feeling nothing. Played all thru the leviathan story and came out of if thinking it was some of the most by the books "character development" I had seen in awhile only one that really did much was kital with some lore drops on the original bullet sponge of d2. And watching and listening to my friends go thru lightfall has only confirmed why I can't get into destiny. They seem scared to actually tell a story that shows what the world is about. You walk into a restaurant but all they will give you is appetizers. All the story and development where it isn't just a one off thing is just a drop in the mile wide but inch deep world of destiny.

[@Reproviss]

I absolutely LOVED our Strand montage hehehehe so epic!!

[@HaveAGoodDayLad]

Why are the Vex on Neonuma?

[@Poseidon-1]

Since they decided to split lightfall and final shape into 2 DLCS the story really just falls short because it’s only the first act of what’s supposed to be 1 mega DLC that’s now separated I’m hoping season 21 and 22 can bring us some answers and bring back the darker tone that WQ had there was such a foreboding tone with savathuun mentioning the witness was coming and all that and this just felt a little to campy for the end of the known universe

[@brucewilliamson5295]

Strand sucked in mid campaign without more of it unlocked. The story was hot garbage for the complete lack of information. This is why i hate the hype train cause the hype and hope that it will be as good as forsaken and then not and then we hoped this would be as good as WQ and it was more of a shadow keep or worse really.

[@Killasim1]

I would like to know how the striders knew abt us, and why they were gonna defend the city from us, if we ever arrived on neomuna because of other circumstances. Also, how are striders chosen, who gives them their gifts???

[@reversed_terry3868]

I think the veil is the reason anyone is even on Neptune. I think the veil might be the mediator of the flower game between the witness and the traveler

[@oryxthetakenking8275]

So if Zavala and the Guardians come to accept Savathûn being a hidden hero that saved the Traveler, why didn't they bother to revive her when the biggest enemy is at their doorsteps? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation was perfect here, but nonexistent.

[@totallyoriginaltbox]

might be saved for the final shape or one of this year's seasons

[@oryxthetakenking8275]

@@totallyoriginaltbox most likely is the case, but that's sort of stupid. The big bad dude is gone now, so how is that supposed to help Savathûn help the Guardians? Reviving her whilst the Witness was here would've helped her come up with something to either delay the Witness from attacking or getting the Traveler out of the trap it was in.

[@totallyoriginaltbox]

@@oryxthetakenking8275 not sure, I guess we will find out

[@giuseppediguida6063]

This dlc was not worth the price

[@relucena2007]

Unfortunately Bungie took a wrong direction in this campaign narrative-wise. After an outstanding campaign in Witch Queen (narrative-wise) surrounded by mistery all over until the end, they raised a bar and set a new level to the game. After one year waiting for some major answers, a lot of hype has built upon this new expansion, and the overall feeling was that this campaign was completely half-baked. I'd rather have a delayed DLC than have something like it was delivered.

[@bobbcorr]

They might as well have called the veil the horcrux. For as much time as they spent explaining everything else I was surprised how they did so little to explain the veil. Big miss.

[@joezazasin7]

This DLC has me worried for the future of this game

[@dslayer418]

Yeah, Warframe did the same drop the ball play with “the new war”, just set up for the next expansion instead of resolving anything

[@sludgex9016]

Bungie did have a commercial that said the beginning of the end starts in lightfall.... So it's nice this isn't the climax. But still a build up.

[@wittmann05]

We know that during the seasons this year we’ll learn more. Not even close to the worst expansion.

[@inu1900]

I think it would be funny to have all the answers given to us after finishing the campaigns first week. There were so many questions but what if it was because we were supposed to be focusing on stopping Calus and the witness. Then from the next year we find out why the witness needed the vail and how we need to use it to follow the witness into the traveler. Most people just shit on the game and we are only on the third day.

[@vincentsanabria]

You really wanna keep paying 100$ for some half ass story\game play that’s done and old in a few days..

[@Nato2303]

Excellent editing ! The best stories have a resolution. Every battles in a war have a begining and an end, even if the war goes on. Not here. Just soldiers following orders, i guess. Why the Witness needed the Veil to make a link with the Traveler on the other side of the system when he is 2 feet away ?

[@Reyloc]

I liked this video a lot we got more of Evaze’s perspective, hope you give your takes more !

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

So what I concluded is that WQ was a fluke. And Bungie without Activision is somehow... worse. Much worse

[@Crabs581]

So i know maya sundaresh was msund12 but what is oxa and who is ozot, seriously i wanna know the connection between what that psion was doing on nessus with the vex and how thta correlates wth the nefele stronghold/neomuna ofc raspitin has some connection to it and sondoes the ishtar collective, but then thta raises the question of what the vex want jn neomuna and if that is somehow connected to oxa/otzot or even as far as the spire of the watcher Of anyone knows anything aboit this could you please comment

[@MarkisWillis]

The Veil is a direct link to the Traveler. Duh! How is that not clear as day?

[@starlight_prince]

But HOW is it a direct link, and why?

[@MarkisWillis]

@@starlight_prince What is the Traveler? What is the Witness? How were they created? Where did they learn how to use the abilities they have? How can Osiris time travel? How does the Exo Stranger time travel? How does the Traveler terraform planets? How did we settle on Neptune after crashing onto it? How were we able to live on Titan in the methane ocean? What is the creature in the methane ocean? How does it survive? How do ghosts work? You can either question everything, or just go with what they tell us, and use your imagination for the rest. Everything doesn't NEED an explanation!

[@w3ghe711]

I don't get the hate for Osiris in this expansion. He's by far the most realistic character in this entire expansion and as you said, the emotion he shows is great.

[@finalfantasy1201]

There wasn't enough witness cutscenes. For all the build up of the witness, & there was what 3 cutscenes & 2 were basically the same with the witness, calus & a broken mirror. The ending cutscene was cool but way way to short

[@HexaSquirrel]

Nimbus is honestly one of the worst characters ever put into a video game.

[@barrymcballs]

Ok transphobe

[@HexaSquirrel]

​@@barrymcballs I knew this comment was coming. Just because Nimbas is non-binary, doesn't make them a bad character - that is irrelevant. What makes them terrible is the complete tone deafness of the character; the world is ending, the Traveler is going to lose, and here Nimbus is acting like they're some pre-pubescent skater who is blind to the horrors of the surrounding situation. It's god-awful writing. Also, transphobe != non-binary. Learn the difference.

[@barrymcballs]

@@HexaSquirrel get woke go broke

[@HexaSquirrel]

@@barrymcballs That’s the most intellectual response you can conjure? What a waste of resources.

[@rapgodmaster6592]

I feel like they should’ve released the campaign at the end of the season or something, bc I have a feeling we’re gonna understand what the veil is by then

[@nathanielmalcolm6623]

My 3 things I have to go through: 1) The campaign itself. We were dropped the juiciest story we could want, what with us trying to get to the mysterious Veil & secure it before Calus or The Witness could...... unfortunately, Bungo forgot to explain *what the hell The Veil really is* fundamentally and so the climatic final cutscene gives us 500 more questions. 2) Strand. I love it, especially on my Titan (Bungo did an okay green Fist of Havoc but no more for TFS), but forcing us to use it and even making Osiris be all pissy at us about not utilising it from the start & us being babied into it wasn't my cup of tea. Would've maybe had a separate main storyline about Strand that ran parallel to the actual Lightfall story & we learn how to wield the funny green strings at our own pace. 3) Overall vibes of "The Apocalypse is Now" marketing. We only lost one character and that was a new one brought in immediately, whereas we had a good clutch of characters that could've died a heroic death and raised the stakes of Lightfall so much more. Also, I found Nimbus' attitude to be a bit too overtly Cayde-like from the get go and not smoothly warm up to us over time BEFORE they becomes goofy with us, ya know? Overall, Lightfall is a 8/10 and if Bungo wants Final Shape to succeed, *they got 1 year to get their asses on it.*

[@BeanDippens]

I feel like the campaign would’ve been fine if after we defeated calus there were shorter endgame missions finally learning more about neomuna and the veil since we would’ve had to time to do so and not so focused on stopping calus but there is nothing. No answers only more questions.

[@Fenyxclips]

Lightfalls story in short: A fucking disappointment. In long: How much of The Veil, Witness, Calus and Cloudstriders did they not think would've been majorly needed for this campaign?! Even saying "The Traveller is gone." Yet still up there with us STILL with our Light doesn't make any sense! Went from being a story about stopping the Witness and Calus to instead understanding Strand!

[@crisper1614]

The Veil is the travelers child.

[@mroptimusprime9022]

I thought the Veil was gonna be another enemy race or something. I still wanna know what the statues are in the pyramid ships, it’s clearly a woman, is that the traveler and is the Witness just a big simp with a shrine like Helga in Hey, Arnold!? Admittedly it is very sad to see this happen, I love these lore videos.

[@TeKnoVKNG23]

This almost reminds me of Mass Effect where the Reapers need the Citadel to enact their final plan each cycle. Like the Witness needed the Traveler to accomplish/unlock whatever it's holding inside it. In Mass Effect we thought the Citadel was our bastion of the galaxy, seat of government, and an amazing relic of the past left behind to help unite the galaxy, when in reality it's a giant Trojan Horse. I'm wondering if the Traveler will turn out to be the same, though I hope not as that has been done before. I think Savathun obviously knew what was inside the Traveler, hence why she was trying to hide it away from the Witness. The Cloud Ark also seems a lot like the Prothean stasis units on Ilos. What bothered me most about the Cloudstriders was their 10 year lifespan due to the augments. I mean if Clovis figured out how to make immortal Exos(obviously unless they take severe damage, but memories backed up in storage) with normal golden age tech, how is it that this supposed "more advanced" city than Golden Age tech is so limited in what they were able to achieve with bio-tech? Doesn't seem to make any sense. It seems like the Cloud Ark is just something they developed similar to Exo memory storage, so it's odd their "Super Soldiers" would have such a short lifespan.

[@I-Ionic-I]

I feel like Osiris carried the campaign, he was the only one with a sense of urgency. He didn't care what the Veil was he just wanted to stop the Witness from destroying the universe. He was distrusted from the moment he awakened and wanted to prove his usefulness and with his light gone it was hard for him to do so. I think his character building was the best in this dlc. Also I loved that Osiris was like our sensei teaching us Strand but other than Osiris it wasn't a great dlc for me. The cloud striders didn't seem to understand the stakes, Caiatl reaction to Calus's death was underwhelming, Calus was way too easy to defeat after years spent with this character (I think we should have got Calus to critical heath then a cutscene would have played and the Witness would have killed Calus for failing, that's just my opinion though), also the story focused way too heavily on Strand for the stakes and answers we needed before the Final Shape. Overall 6/10 story wise P.S. people are asking what the Veil is (rightfully so) but WHAT THE HELL IS THE "RADIAL MASS"!

[@Msskhalifaa]

This. The witness should’ve been the one to kill calus for his failures. That would’ve been so epic and would’ve fit so well with the previous cut scene where calus was quickly put in his place by the witness and utterly terrified to death. Now I really wish they did this. We fought calus so many times in many forms and we just beat him here like this? Are we supposed to believe because we have a newfound power the strand it makes it fit the story? Idk

[@I-Ionic-I]

@@Msskhalifaa Thanks for the sentiment

[@maraudershields283]

I don’t think I would have minded having so much more mystery added to the game and things left unexplained, if the characters actually reflected that as well. Sometimes even the way Osiris talked about the Veil was if he actually knew exactly what it was, which became infuriating. Even when Nimbus says it’s connected to the Cloud Ark, and then barely explains what that is, raising a whole bunch of more questions. Then after, we have Zavala and Ikora talking about the dead traveller like they were handed the directors cut of the game. If everyone was as clueless as the player, then it would feel more believable.

[@Odysseus11.134]

It would've been nice to have 3 things in this DLC, so for one a more detailed map of neomuna, it's meant to be a city and its pretty small, not only that but to make all the AI more dynamic to make it actually feel like a war. A second thing would be a space battle, the pyramid ships are still in orbit and we just forget about them? Last would be some unique locations for areas of earth under attack, like why would the cabal only be focussed on the EDZ? Give us old new York or some smaller versions of old destiny concept maps used for the special events to make the game world feel bigger instead of having such a massive story that is so restricted to a handful of locations.

[@unsilencedchaos2112]

for me it was like a 6/10. it wasnt bad. it was a fun experience. I enjoyed strand but I wanted a lot more. for what we got it was fun but equally what we got, wasnt enough my biggest issues: - not finding out what the veil does despite osiris and the cloudstriders seemingly knowing what it is - there weren't enough damage to us or the last city. I really thought the last city would be invaded properly with pyramids etc... and that it would be the red war x 10 - the fact we didn't know what the veil was, it kinda makes me think "why should I care what's happened if I dont know what the consequences could be/are. - this was meant to be the beginning of our end but at the end, I personally didnt feel like we lost despite the vanguard telling us we had and that the traveller is "gone" even though its still in the sky. - it also doesn't feel like anything has changed. we still have the tower. the last city is fine. non of the main characters died and we have the light. I mean I want us/the traveler to win but if I dont know what the veil does. how can I care what's happened at the end when nothing has changed for us. - last thing. it wish we could have spent more time with Rohan. maybe last season or something

[@kevothegoat9891]

I think the reason the last City never got invaded was because the traveler left to protect us

[@unsilencedchaos2112]

@@kevothegoat9891 right but we serve the traveller. It makes sense. Seize the enemy which includes us. I know the witness sees us (the player) as the final shape. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t hundreds of other guardians. Hundreds of cabal and eliksni to defeat. To me, the battle in the first cutscene didn’t seem that scary because the scale wasn’t big. If we got hit in our ‘home’ then I would be terrified, but that wasn’t the case.