Determining speaker placement

[@BB..........]

I have my speakers (Dunlavy SC-Vs) toed-in pretty drastically; when I'm sitting in my listening spot I can't see the inside or outside edges of the cabinets. My phantom center is so good that you'd swear there was a hidden center speaker, and my imaging is awesome, extending well beyond the outsides of the speakers. Experimenting and continually tweaking over weeks or months is the key to finding the ideal speaker positioning.

[@TheAlexhotz]

I comined 3 schools of thought when placing my speakers in my pretty small space. All of which I got from Dynaudio video about set-up. 1) Golden ratio (5:8 or 8:5) I have 8 units of measured space from side walls and 5 units of measurement. Can't remember what I used for units but it added up to being in line with my 2nd school of thought 2) place speakers in the first and last 1/5 of the room. I am sitting in the wrong plain of my rectangle room so I could get width and set my speakers in front of a sliding door or closet. 3) equal lateral triangle. My head is the exact distance from my tweeters as they are apart from each other. I use Klipsch rp-150m with no toe in to help naturally soften treble response in listening position while also widen the soundstage. Before all this leg work had little depth to my audio and channel imbalance. Goes to show positioning can really make or break a system regardless of price.

[@julianfranco7689]

Fantastic guide for starting! Thank you! I used to toe in speakers a lot, but started placing them with no toe in and the change in response and sound stage was outstanding. I do very little toe in now but thanks to this video I now have the sound stage/center reference as a way to gauge too much or too little toe in. I want to test the mid range by bringing the speakers closer but my living room table doesn't let me without bringing the speakers way out into the room.

[@FSXgta]

If your speakers have good off axis dispersion you don't need toe in as much

[@jjinglenuts]

Move the table and check the mids sound quality if no improvements put the table back , by bringing speakers Lil bit closer everything improves bass, mids, highs at the end you adjust the toe in or out.

[@skularatna8136]

No toe in with mine either

[@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez]

Audiophile's guide helped me a lot. Center image used to be right, but was no more. First I thought that my ear was the problem, then the speakers (3 dB difference), and finally the problem was that my old amplifier need more warm up. Track 3 was just right in the middle.

[@DC-xx4kv]

I carry my speakers on my shoulders just like we did in the 80’s!

[@stephendacey4916]

Hi Paul, You mention toe-in, is that from an initial on-axis position or from a flat facing position. Many thanks - Steve

[@svetozarangelov8590]

A question for Paul and anybody caring enough to answer.. :) My subwoofer is placed right in front of one of the towers, should a small delay (through the variable phase knob) be added? They are just barely crossed-over (speakers reach down to about 44 and I have the sub taking things over from 56) and it sounds well-blended, but I still can't wrap my head around speeds at which frequencies travel. Thank you for all the videos and comments that add to every one.

[@hocktooey]

That's a good question. I have my subs behind my towers. This is due to the way the bass sounds in my room. I followed Paul's guide (as much as I could) and tried to find the best bass response (my room being only 16' long by 11.5' wide). Once I determined that I had the best bass in my space and a good listening position, and one that my wife didn't mind, I set up the towers. I am still playing with these in terms of just how far into the room is best with how much toe in, but I don't notice any (bass) time issues with the sound, whether the towers are 30" or 40" from the front wall. The subs are only 8" from the front wall, but their volume level is low at around 10 O'clock. The best thing I notice is the soundstage depth, which, especially at low volume, is much deeper and fuller than without the subs. Bill Frisell's "Wagon Wheels" is amazing! Perhaps someone knows if bass frequencies are so much slower that we can hear the gap in playback (I think that's the question).

[@svetozarangelov8590]

@@hocktooey that was indeed the question and I think you answered it fully, I guess when we're talking such speeds, a couple inches wouldn't really make a difference.. I'll keep on testing and fiddling, but I think I got my head too wrapped around the importance of phase since I believe it's meant for subwoofers in a different area than the towers (like opposite). Thanks for the reply!

[@keywestjimmy]

All inverse waves must reflect to cohere at the listening position. Generally away 1/3 from the front and side walls are good starting positions. Toe-in angle matters. Hard diffusion panels along the side and front walls can help. (Not absorbing panels) Unless designed with adjustable settings, these positions and angles (optimum wave propagation angles) are unchangeable for each and every speaker. Sometimes a room's dimensions, furniture placement, etc. do not allow optimum sound. You must then change speakers. PS Audio's speakers allow for adjustment of the rear facing driver and adjustment of the low-frequency drivers. Many more rooms will be compatible with such thoughtful design.

[@andynonimuss6298]

The distance between tweeters will fall between 5'-6" to 5'-10" depending on room width and length. As a basic geometry correction to this video, an "apex" is only in an Isosceles triangle not an equilateral triangle, because there is no highest point (or apex) in an equilateral triangle. The top line of your equilateral triangle is called the speaker base line (since those two vertex points are called base angles) and the bottom point is called the stereo vertex, not the apex. Having tweeters 8 to 10 feet apart is pretty unrealistic even for some of the largest studios.

[@scarabeo500gt]

Yep - That is how I set up my Bookshelf speakers! Move them any way from how they are now and one of those sound fields collapse. Thanks...

[@neilgaydon5430]

Spot on. Focus on getting the bass clear and playing a tune first and everything follows.

[@glenncurry3041]

I often see reference to the 60 degree cone, where the speakers are each 30 degrees from perpendicular. Or a 2/3 ratio of 2 units apart for every 3 units away. So once separation is determine by your bass/ center image approach, the distance away is math.

[@JohnBaker189]

off topic, but i rebuild speakers as a hobby, and wonder why we need to have such large guage wire going from the amp to the crossovers? most speakers ive seen have small guage wire from the crossover to the speakers, and the crossovers themselves use very small guage??? thanks for any input.

[@warpspeed9877]

Very large is non essential. Remember that cables from amp to let's say a three way speaker need to be able to pass through enough oomph to let the speaker reach maximum levels. You need some wire thickness to keep the resistance low. Then a decent amount of power is lost in the crossover (up to 25%?). The woofer gets most of the remaining power , the midrange most of the rest and the tweeter just very few watts. In my builds i use progressively thinner cable inside the speaker as i move from woofer to tweeter. Ideally the wire coming from the posts to the crossover should be identical to the speaker cable.

[@chefchutardo5215]

Paul, what frequency range would you consider midbass ? Thanks

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

100Hz to 500Hz

[@gwil6100]

Hi there, where do we find the guide that Paul mentioned in the video?

[@anonimushbosh]

Amzn

[@doylewayne3940]

Before I received Pauls set up book and CD I would focus the drummers kickdrum is centered and the slam was just right on 2 recordings.🥁

[@mrronenza]

Very useful video , Thanks !

[@przemyslawpraski8985]

Having the comfort of a large listening room, I noticed that the further from the wall the better (also for a sub)

[@geickmei]

Speakers are not positioned w respect to the listener or the frequency response. They are positioned for imaging and w respect to the walls near them - front and side walls. Start at 1/4 of the width of the room in from side walls and the same amount out from the front wall. Toe in 30 degrees.

[@PooNinja]

Location location location!

[@maxputil]

Follow the golden ratio

[@Roof_Pizza]

First, place your TV where it's best or maybe 2nd best.

[@jyyrsdbn]

1st

[@RoderikvanReekum]

You are FIRST, congratulations on this amazing performance you get 🥇🏆🍾🥂👏🇺🇸 You were so fast to click!

[@endrizo]

oil filled head. write something worth reading not that stupid first.

[@keywestjimmy]

All inverse waves must reflect to cohere at the listening position. Generally away 1/3 from the front and side walls are good starting positions. Toe-in angle matters. Hard diffusion panels along the side and front walls can help. (Not absorbing panels) Unless designed with adjustable settings, these positions and angles (optimum wave propagation angles) are unchangeable for each and every speaker. Sometimes a room's dimensions, furniture placement, etc. do not allow optimum sound. You must then change speakers. PS Audio's speakers allow for adjustment of the rear facing driver and adjustment of the low-frequency drivers. Many more rooms will be compatible with such thoughtful design.