Dev's Don't Admire Laravel?! (Stack Overflow Survey Reaction)

This survey had some pretty shocking results across the board. So can we learn from them? Is a Stack Overflow survey even indicative of developers as a whole?
**p.s. I wasn't going to post this, but should I do more videos like this in the future? Let me know in the comments or vote on my next video here: cir.re/suggest
Please take time to complete the State of Laravel survey:
stateoflaravel...
Keep creating.
---
📹 *Watch My VSCode Setup Video:* • My Minimal and Beautif...
🎓 *Make VSCode Awesome - Caleb Porzio's Course (support me with this link):* gumroad.com/a/...

[@wtfdoiputhere]

personally idc about any survey, laravel is my happiness and idc what anyone thinks of that

[@NoahSteckley]

Why so?

[@anasouardini]

I'm a big JS dev and I really admire Laravel and Adonisjs.

[@joshcirre]

It's awesome to have JS devs who admire Laravel. I think Adonis is a great option, as well. :)

[@doceddie]

Laravel and Adonis are the best full stack frameworks out of any language. After that maybe Django or rails.

[@anasouardini]

@@doceddie Adonisjs is no ready for use unless you want to reverse engineer it a little bit, it's all errors left and right, but I still use it and report errors cause I believe JS devs will wake up one day and start building apps the pragmatic way.

[@doceddie]

@@anasouardini what is an example of an error you've had? Maybe I need to revert back to Laravel?

[@anasouardini]

​@@doceddie "I am just tired of the JS ecosystem creating 200 variations of the same packages and switching between them all the time and breaking the internet." - Harminder Virk They can't handle the chaotic ecosystem of js go to their Dis(c)ord and you'll find two errors posted by a user called venego followed by other issues followed by that quote. Also you can try to install it yourself and see what happens.

[@KevinPaulGonzales]

Learning laravel is fun. The only thing that hinders me to keep using it for personal projects is that, the HOSTING. Would be great to host it for free.

[@joshcirre]

I think hosting might get better over time. :)

[@fatihtoprakkale4174]

railway has a free tier u can use...

[@arjaymarigondon1485]

There's one thing I really want to have in PHP, and that is the ability to be interactive like javascript.

[@TechDaddyFr]

Well, that's why you have Alpine/Livewire that works very well with Laravel and enables you to add interactivity while writing only PHP. I prefer the Inertia/React combo but it's not PHP anymore. There are options.

[@perfect.stealth]

You can't. PHP is a server side language

[@RoyalNjoku]

​@@perfect.stealthTry Laravel livewire bro

[@hasanablak]

Oh my gosh! I forgot follow your channel! how can i forgot this when i watch everyday your channel?

[@joshcirre]

Thank you for the support! :)

[@SiddharthPant]

Great chill review Josh. One quick correction, Ruff being referred to in the survey is not the framework but the linter/formatter for Python(written using Rust due to which it's blazing fast). It's gaining traction over the previous community favorite "black" similar to how prettier is favorite for the JS ecosystem. And yeah I am a Python dev that is now liking Laravel more and more because of creators like you.

[@joshcirre]

Thanks for the clarification Siddharth! (And for the support and kind words). That makes a lot of sense and I'm glad to have you here to let me know. I'll have to reach out to you when I do some more digging into Python/Ruff. ☺️

[@AndrewErwin73]

not sure why anyone looks at this anymore... it has become such a meme, I would bet money that not many actual developers even take the survey.

[@joshcirre]

Probably true!

[@wilbertdune]

they just hate PHP

[@joshcirre]

Sad. :(

[@CanKorkmazim]

According to you, everyone hates PHP. No, PHP is simply not needed anymore.

[@Soulis98]

@@joshcirre Good. It make less saturation for us.

[@dhrumilsangani1584]

I really enjoy to code in Laravel 😃. Their ecosystem and community are very cool 😎 I don't know why php is so underated, If you love to work in JS then you love PHP.

[@joshcirre]

I don't think JS and PHP are that far separated in terms of syntax and developer experience, and Laravel is miles better than most JS frameworks. So I agree with you there. 😁

[@Fuxy22]

Don't know, I do a lot of PHP out of necessity and mostly either laravel or laravel components used to put something custom together so it is what it is... The language does allow you to do whatever you want it's up to you to write good code... and at this point it doesn't matter much, I have been coding for decades, I know what not to do...

[@Stoney_Eagle]

If you aren't hired specifically to program, what is your job title at Laravel?

[@joshcirre]

I am in a sort of hybrid role at the moment doing technical support for Laravel Vapor and then a DevRel/Educator role for videos and other stuff. :)

[@hrqmonteiro]

I am a js developer for 5 years, since i started. I learned some other tools like RoR, Spring, Clojure, Go, and Laravel. Although i really enjoyed learning it, the developer experience and the tools of the Laravel ecosystem, what keeps me from switching to using it is: 1 - PHP 2 - Hosting the applications In JS, Go, or anything else you can start a server with two lines of code and host at something like Vercel, Netlify, Render, Railway, AWS with just a click. Laravel goes the other way around.

[@fatihtoprakkale4174]

you know 0 about hosting laravel.... laravel is just as fast if you use something like forge or ploi. or even railway has a free tier where all you have to do is add git and ur project works and its up and running

[@hrqmonteiro]

@@fatihtoprakkale4174 Not my experience with it

[@joshcirre]

You have some points. I think the Laravel team's focus is on improving the second one in the near future. So stay tuned. :)

[@hrqmonteiro]

@@joshcirre Yes, that was my impression at the time as well And i will, cause i do a lot of recreational programming, so maybe someday i build something (for real) on Laravel.

[@oretasletters]

I heard someone say, these are developers who have a StackOverflow account.... So they don't really speak for the majority

[@joshcirre]

I agree with that. It's not a good sample size in a lot of ways. :)

[@voidspirit111]

​@@joshcirrewith how toxic the SO community has gotten over the last 5 years and the "SO is so toxic" youtube videos wave from last year, i am amazed ppl even take SO survey into consideration. Also, it wasn't even properly reprezentative for US let alone for EU or other areas. Yes, lot of ppl use it, but indirectly, through google search results, but very few make accounts and actually interact. As for PHP, i doubt many php active user are around there😂. Ppl have moved on to other communities, on discord and other forums.

[@lassestube]

1/3 are unhappy at work… that sounds crazy. Perhaps unhappy is a relative scale but it’s not good to see that many people in a job they don’t appreciate.

[@joshcirre]

That was a crazy statistic. Even for jobs I didn't care for, I wasn't really unhappy.

[@lassestube]

@@joshcirre I have this philosophy if you will, that if you don't like where you are change it, rather than holding up a space someone else might love to have. I think there's a place for everyone, it's about having the courage and persistence to go for it.

[@ElonBastardMusk]

Do you even work as a dev, or you are just jealous of other people having a job and you don't? Not everyone has a looser life with soul purpose of corporate boot licking. You sound more like one of those LinkedIn jokers to be honest.

[@voidspirit111]

​@@lassestubethat works only if you have safety nets or you don't have a family to support. Otherwise, moves are not that easy and tend to be dictated by income and how much longer you can stand the current env😂.

[@ifeanyinnaemego]

Is there are a better future for Laravel

[@joshcirre]

I think so. I think the PHP language, the Laravel framework, and the ecosystem improves every day. :)

I feel bad for Ruby.

[@whoknows3679]

I do admire Laravel, but I hate PHP

[@dab500]

PHP's syntax is similar to is and c++. Modern PHP is also a lot better language.

[@shayanCodingMaster]

You don't have PHP, but you do hate your productivity.

[@MK-bs3dq]

I admire traveling but I hate vehicles, oxymoron thing

[@joshcirre]

Interesting. I think it's tough to hate PHP but love Laravel. Maybe admiring what Laravel has done for PHP even if you don't prefer the language. :)

[@shayanCodingMaster]

@@joshcirre Absolutely Yes

[@ncpurge789]

Why use PHP when you can use GoLang?

[@joshcirre]

Because I don’t know Go. 🤷‍♂️ simple as that. 😬

[@himanshumania]

if we take MariaDB and MySQL combined, it is number #1

[@joshcirre]

There we go!

[@aimperialdesign6519]

If non-coders are involved, WordPress is higher.

[@joshcirre]

I was surprised to see Wordpress not higher in categories here.

[@aimperialdesign6519]

​@@joshcirre in school, I couldn't figure out but lot of courses now using wordpress. In our trainings we all use wordpress. And all of us who continued freelancing, I'm the only one do coding or using programming language like Laravel. In our Engineering Team, most of us are IT or Comp. Science, we all use wordpress for our clients. For my individual projects, only one is made with Laravel. The rest are WordPress.

[@shubhamsahuSD]

Sad reality... Laravel is awesome 😂 if we compare the structure and the laravel functions , facaedes and ORM

[@joshcirre]

It really is awesome. It means we are too busy building to take surveys. 😂

[@shubhamsahuSD]

@@joshcirre 😂

[@nghiase738]

Maybe they don't like it because PHP has a lot of -> and $ ?

[@joshcirre]

Syntax does throw a lot of people off unfortunately!

[@paulholsters7932]

pitty edgeDB is not amongst the databases.

[@joshcirre]

I haven't gotten to look at it yet!

[@buc991]

I heard a lot of good things about laravel, but i will never even try it because I can’t stand php.

[@joshcirre]

You're missing out. PHP is not as bad as you probably think. :)

[@sik2765]

Genuine question as js dev learn a new language and Laravel and not stick to what is offered in node, I get that Laravel is a framework but while learning backend I wrote every piece of code, now that I know how to do that why would not just copy the boilerplate and change as like, instead of going on to learn a new language.

[@joshcirre]

I think if your current stack works for you, you should stick with it! Familiarity is the best tool in the end. :) I will say that one of the reasons why I love Laravel as a backend framework is it has all of the tools I need out of the box without having to decide what third party integration I need for a given task.

[@pietime123123]

You don't need to learn Laravel or anything else. If you like and want to stick with what you currently know, then do so. If you want to test the waters with different things such as Laravel, go ahead and try it. You may find that you enjoy it more than what you're currently working with, or you may not.

[@alexz75515]

People who code, don't have time to do these surveys. )))

[@joshcirre]

Oops. 😅 I took the survey, but I also don't code THAT much. 😂

[@voidspirit111]

I wouldn't say that ppl that code don't have time for the survey, i would say that most devs don't fill it. SO is a clossed, shrinking community. IMHO, SO is not representative of the international dev market. Maybe it is a bit for US but for the rest, not really. As for PHP, i doubt many php users are still active on SO. Most frequent other communities that are less toxic... For example, nobody at work (40 devs, me included) have touched SO in more than 4 years. Furthermore, it was never that popular to begin with, at lest in central and west Europe( not talking about getting redirected there from google). In my opinion SO data is very biased and non reprezentative but ppl need clicks so they take the survey data and run with it....

[@md.redwanhossain6288]

Laravel picked the wrong language which doesn't have the right to be a language.

[@MK-bs3dq]

Why?

[@TheOnlyJura]

@@MK-bs3dq historical drama, performance issues, lots of magic syntax, no type safety

[@oretasletters]

​@@TheOnlyJuraPHP has changed a lot since 2009, btw

[@pau1phi11ips]

​@@TheOnlyJurahave you used PHP since 5.4?

[@TheOnlyJura]

@@pau1phi11ips I use it every day at work, and the amounts of __get, __call, __invoke and other magic methods is what I hate the most And yes, php is slow compared to Go/Rust Arrays are not type safe as there are no generics and never will be The same goes for classes that try to be generic, but arent really

[@uraymeiviar]

why would anyone use PHP, that is stupid

[@joshcirre]

Um.. :(