Developing Tyranny

I talk about the development of Tyranny at Obsidian.

[@cleverman383]

Tyranny is one of my favorite RPGs ever, and I rarely ever hear anyone mention it. The Conquest part of the game is the best way of giving the player's character a backstory that I've ever seen.

[@bloodaxis]

Yeah it's very underrated, it's quite short, but with a lot of depth and reactivity, which is why I think it gets overlooked because a lot of players now a days just play through something once and call it done.

[@StefaNonsense]

I consider Tyranny to be a personal modern classic and I do my best to talk about it a lot kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2jFiJaMi9GBhKM

[@Vincent_Van_Vega]

One of my favorite RPGs as well

[@nutherefurlong]

I mention it all the time, at least :) Really fun. And yeah, a sort of storied background system like that needs to be in more games

[@aaronc1705]

Yeah, I thought Tyranny was fantastic. Much like PoE, it would have been better with turn-based combat.

[@ConstantGames]

Lmao, your impression of me made me literally lol. Also, yeah, the way the ideas were getting shot down left and right was an awful experience. BMac is absolutely amazing on so many levels, engineer and designer, he can do it all.

[@blingkong1045]

Honestly I’m quite glad that the god in the cave was never added. I think having a higher being explain the origin and extent of Kyros’ power would have ruined their mystique and threat.

[@exxyplaysandplays]

I felt like the way edicts were treated in Tyranny sort of filled in for religion. Like the system of government had a religious element to it. Man, what a good game. It deserves to be its own series. Having to decide how and what kind of evil to be was really interesting. And thank goodness for Anthony Davis. And double thank goodness for the turn based mode in Pillars 2. Obsidian: please, please make another Tyranny. You know how good it is. It's so good.

[@beautifulbearinatutu4455]

I'm not sure they could even if they wanted to, the IP is owned by Paradox unlike Pillars.

[@exxyplaysandplays]

@@beautifulbearinatutu4455 The IP is the least interesting part. They could do what From Software did (Demon's Souls -> Dark Souls) and just rename it. I don't care what it's called; I'm here for the content and the gameplay.

[@MonadTransformer]

All tyrannical governments have much in common with religious movements. It's the reason Soviet Communists were persecuting religious people, replacing religious holidays and spreading the ideas of atheistic materialism - the government hates competition, and Christianity was competing with Communism for attention.

[@chaddickhaut140]

One thing that Tyranny absolutely nailed is how ancient governments *were* religious in nature, and you couldn't really separate "church" and state. It's a part of why Tyranny comes off as more mythical in a way that many modern fantasy properties don't.

[@leinadisjourneys]

Tyranny was a cool game, though one that didn't quite live up to its potential I think. But at the same time, I felt it was also very overlooked. Sort of an "unlucky" game in a way. The gameworld of Tyranny was one of my favorite bits about it. There was a really nice sense of mystery about it, lots of things you never figured out about how it all worked and only got slight hints about. It felt like it was a world with potentially many layers to it (both in terms of the supernatural, as well as societal), yet the player (and the people inhabiting it) only got to see a few of them.

[@NoInfoAvail]

Tyranny is one of my all time favorite games.

[@androidmcd]

What a great memoir title that would be: "Religion, Dragons & Soup: The Timothy Cain Story"

[@ValdVincent]

Just hearing about all these awesome things cut from Tyranny is hurts, loved that game. Would buy a setting or TTRPG book for it even if it ever becomes a thing.

[@nutherefurlong]

Yeah, same. I didn't get the deluxe version so I don't know if the extras had more worldbuilding. Wouldn't mind them publishing the game bible or something similar

[@kevinjohnson495]

Tyranny is genuinely one of the best C&C-focused RPGs I have ever played. Absolutely brilliant how many different paths there are. Love the Conquest system at the beginning too.

[@rrrrthats4rs]

Tyranny was an alright set of systems and a decent-- kind of unique story buoyed up by some of the best lore-writing and art direction of any Obsidian game ever

[@therealchriscunningham]

"Religion, dragons and soup" is truly meme-worthy.

[@ER1SCO]

This channel is a font of springwater to a turbid and saliferous sea. 10/10

[@r-saint]

You and Chirs worked on my favorite western games.

[@Shannovian]

Anthony Davis is such a cool dude. I always enjoyed watching him stream a game. He was once helping me try and get hired at Obsidian, but nothing came of it.

[@wolfslipper]

It's awesome to hear the backstory that pertains my own lore speculation about Tyranny. Thanks!

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

I was immediately engrossed in Tyranny. I couldnt stop playing for several days. Finished the game several times over.

[@brainpattern]

Love your videos, Tim! Keep it up. If I may make a request, it would be amazing to see a discussion with Josh Sawyer on your channel!

[@exxyplaysandplays]

Seconded!

[@SasuPsycho]

Really love all the insights here I never thought would actually interest me, especially in games I never heard of.

[@georgemuniz8805]

This video gave me such a desire to go back and play tyranny again..

[@felipebisi4145]

The only thing i dislike in Tyranny is the lack of enemy variation I love the main menu theme

[@jonnoj2784]

I would love to see a sequel or even a prequel where we get to see the areas closer to Kyros' seat of power and the political intrigue closer to home. The world of Tyranny has to be one of the most interesting concepts for a fantasy game I've ever played (arcanum was as well for me).

[@lorangemagnifique3001]

When you mentioned Tyranny in your last vid, I got so excited hoping you'd do a video on it! I had no idea you worked on it. I only played it back when it came out, and the shaky pace of the final act kept me from replays, but even despite that Tyranny's a game that blew me away. The setting, the story, and the freeform classless nature of the game were all some of my favourites in gaming!

[@calebszyszkiewicz719]

Hearing this perspective on making a game is so informative. It was super cooling hearing ideas about it that didnt make it into the game or how there was some shuffling of programmers and leads.

[@mildlyannoyed1]

Thank you for giving my favourite RPG a bit of a spotlight!

[@aNerdNamedJames]

Damn, should be hugely proud of that role played in making Tyranny's spell system. I know that at least for me personally it's my favorite spell system in any fantasy RPG I've ever played.

[@flatman3134]

Nice system, needed lots of balance tweaks. Like, full iron armor Lantry could basically beat the game by himself on Hard (after Vendrien's Well)

[@PrettyGuardian]

That potential scene in the cave would have been so simple and impactful to the player understanding of the world.

[@darkholyPL]

I need to replay Tyranny, such a fun game. Which kind of reminds me, I would love a sequel or a new take on Icewind Dale as well.

[@willheisdarkrock6286]

Guess I was hoping for more context in the Paradox/Obsidian divorce, or Chris Avellone's departure, or decisions made in design, but I appreciate that Tim's involvement was small, so his own view of things is truncated. Still waiting on Tyranny 2 *sigh* .

[@YouTubdotCub]

I've always loved Tyranny dearly and I know we will never get a sequel but I want one so bad!

[@kaptenteo]

Tyranny is a fantastic game. I put off playing it for a long while, but it surprised me to see how great the concept actually worked in the game.

[@beautifulbearinatutu4455]

I quite enjoyed Tyranny, even though I wish the combat system wasn't cooldown-based and that it had more enemy variety. I will say, I have contrasting feelings about the owners of Obsidian from this video. I can't see what was going on through their heads, but the way they structured the meetings for new IPs seems honestly unproductive when another approach could probably have gone better. On the other hand, they also were extremely accomodating towards the request of having Leonard to bounce ideas with, so it's not like they're villains, just goes to show that there's usually nuance. I have my opinions on how higher-up decisions have sometimes held back the company, but I've never had to keep a studio afloat, so I'll just keep them to myself for the time being :) Thanks for the video as always!

[@DigitalProphet]

Tyranny is probably my favorite infinity-style game, I still replay it occasionally.

[@GoldenChed]

I loved Tyranny! Did about 3 different playthroughs of the game. One of the best RPG’s I’ve played

[@bratttn]

Hey, Tim. The spell constructor of Tyranny was absolutely genius. Since you haven't mentioned it in the video, I presume, you were not involved in its conception?

[@stuartmorley6894]

It is mentioned

[@Soloman274]

That's what we've been waiting for!

[@wabba67]

Currently replaying Tyranny, the spell system is still great (and on this play-through, I actually understand it much better).

[@bw126]

I love tyranny... I wish it got the real paradox DLC treatment (100 DLCs for someone who isn't familiar with paradox)

[@bubbathedm]

Tyranny was a very neat concept that I wish had had more time for development

[@Vincent_Van_Vega]

This was my most anticipated video! Thank you!

[@dustintaub]

Tim, I don't know if this would be interesting to the entire audience but I would love more insight and details, technical or otherwise, into your role, ideas, methodology, as a game programmer. I've been a business developer in my career, and I'm playing around with game dev, but the way you convey knowledge makes me want to hear more about this topic.

[@JellyJman]

I love Tyranny! One of the best games ever

[@leontes]

Hey Tim, I appreciate the video on AI and I have another (unrelated) question that might make an interesting/informative video. You have experience starting a video game company, and my question/s relating to that would be: What are the first steps you should take when you have an idea or new I.P. (could be a game, book, movie, etc)? Should you start an LLC and trademark/copyright the idea, should you take the idea to publishers, or do you sit on the idea until its more fleshed out and then proceed to copyright and pitch it? I could be asking incorrectly because I have no experience in this arena, and I am looking for a good place to start. Once you outline the first steps, how would you advise single or small groups accomplish those first steps? Thanks!

[@NubileReptile]

Something I appreciated about Tyranny (SPOILERS AHEAD): The nature of edicts can be discovered through gameplay quite early. The first edict you cast requires that Vendrien's Well be captured before a certain day in the year or everyone in the valley will die, friend and foe alike, giving you something like ten days to defeat the rebels in the first area if you just rush straight to Graven Ashe and the Voices of Nerat. But if you just sleep through until the day after the edict was supposed to have taken effect, the fact that edicts can be exploited with loopholes is revealed and you get a whole year to complete the edict before it comes due! The only thing missing, unfortunately, is some reaction in-game from Ashe and Nerat at the exceedingly generous time-allowance Kyros has given them to complete their task.

[@nutherefurlong]

Yeah, stuff like this made it next level. Really gratifying when that sort of attention to detail is there.

[@charliek5964]

Hey Tim. Really enjoying these videos of your history in the games industry and team management. Out of curiosity, if you could make a sequel to any of your games, which would you pick, why, and what would you want to do?

[@Justin-rm6su]

I'd love to see more games adopt magic and spellcrafting systems like Tyranny. It's one of the systems that other games feel worse for not having.

[@Coypop]

My fav of the revival cRPGs, heart aches that Terratus is going to rot in Paradox's vaults.

[@Lyesmyth777]

Thank you for sharing!

[@drithius4801]

Three cheers for Anthony!

[@eldarlrd]

Thank you so much, one of the best RPGs ever.

[@jaredgunkle1562]

that thumbnail is exactly how i feel playing tyranny

[@Grimfarrow]

Tyranny was buggy and some quests seemed unfinished, but it is probably my 2nd favorite Obsidian game - a gem in the rough. But quick question about another topic: Arcanum, especially the music. It is honestly one of the best scores I've ever heard, though the string quartet seems quite different from Tim's Boards of Canada/Brian Eno type of music. Ben Houge also worked on King's Quest Mask of Eternity - was it Sierra that put him on to the game, or did Tim choose him, and was it something that Tim discussed with him to create? Thank you!

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

Point on that philosophy topic at the beginning: - Soup. Yes. Without fail. And even to this day, dishes like borshch, barszcz and ratatouille, and other types of soups, are still national dishes in many Central, Western and European countries and also all throughout Asia. Primarily because it’s the most effective and low cost way to feed the most amount of people, using the simplest of ingredients (even if you only have vegetables available) and using just water and a fire. - Religion. More specifically, an explanation for what happens after you die. I’m personally okay with this being shortened to “religion” as this is one of its earliest and most primary functions. Even in southern African tribal cultures and communities, which people may mistakenly think are “too simple” for religion. But no, they do have them, and it’s primarily based on the spirits of their ancestors guiding the current generations towards a successful afterlife. - Dragons. Not exactly. But, especially in several branches of the Indo-European cultures, and in China and Japan. Dragons as either gods or powerful adversaries for heroes to kill are extremely prevalent themes. But interestingly, they’re actually quite scarce in myths involving monsters in the Greco-Roman traditions, and most of the time they’re more like what we would call, “sea serpents” rather than dragons. Dragons seem to be an especially important symbol in Germanic cultures in particular.

[@fredrik3880]

Thanks for sharing. The teams who did Fallout and Arcanum struck creative gold so it is fun to hear you enjoyed it. Edit saw i had the wrong video opened when i commented (not that it really matters but this comment was supposed to go in the big lesson learned comment field)

[@lonneansekishoku8288]

6:00 [Speech 100/100] [Puppy Dog Perk] "Hmm...Just go..." Sorry, I had to.

[@codyw3078]

best RPG ive ever played. i was super bummed at how quickly it ended. i expected a TON more content. sadge :(

[@Tychoxi]

Hi Tim, invisible walls. whats up with that? in outer worlds i noticed mainly being used to prevent the player from getting stuck in the scenery (or jumping to their death), but they are still used so often for that or other reasons

[@cleverman383]

That reminds me of the other type of invisible walls also used in Outer Worlds: Bulletproof Glass. To make NPCs unkillable. It's extremely frustrating, and only slightly better than just making that NPC immortal. As soon as I saw the trailer for Outer Worlds, and Welles mentions that the Board has put a large bounty on his head, I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to play as that guy that turns in Welles, and gets rich by dooming the fate of all the colonists on the Hope. And everything about the game seemed to suggest it was possible! Every character was killable, and there was even a quest at every planet where you were able to sell what you knew about Welles for money. Except.. it's all a lie. All of those sidequests just lead to a weird situation where the corporate character has some weird reason why they're unable to help you report the location of the most wanted criminal in the colony. Then, when you finally are able to meet Welles at his base, he's standing behind bulletproof glass. No weapon in the game can do anything, he doesn't even react to it. And the character you can report his location to doesn't actually do anything with his location until the very end of the game. Extremely frustrating.

[@Tychoxi]

@@cleverman383 yeah i woulda been ok with a nonstandard game ending (a la FO when you sell out your vault)

[@Serathannas]

My soul for a sequel.

[@LadislausMarguspa]

tyranny was dope I still recommend it to friends any chance I get

[@nutherefurlong]

I would have loved that god chamber. I wonder what sort of things I missed in the game as it was, but I wish there was a lot more...

[@cymru_am_byth]

As a Welshman I thought Dragons, soup and religion were really key to our identity now I hear every civilization that's ever existed has these... Who even am I now?

[@kardrasa]

Tim loves gaming!

[@Gijontin]

Sidenote: shoutout to my fellows who also finished Pillars 2 through the first set of dialogue

[@sumguy63]

We need a holy dragon soup game ASAP

[@Nocsu]

An amazing game I still play on and off, wishing for a sequel to come 😂

[@asdfjkl227]

Have you seen "mandalore gaming" review of tyranny? It's fun if you get around to seeing it. I love his reviews. They're more like showcases/show and tell but with review elements. But not fan boying.

[@AndreasSelzer]

Every time you upload a new development video, I add a new game to try out even if the game is not my type of game.

[@ateszkoma94]

Hey Tim! Can you tell me what is the difference between a "lead" position and a so called "not lead" position? In this world, I can't imagine this similarly to factory assembly line roles (e.g. boss does all the thinking and the employee does all the no brainer stuff)

[@noway__]

i love you tim!!!

[@lorrmaster4778]

Do you know anything about the lore behind the spells in Tyranny? That game had a pretty interesting spell system.

[@annodomini1618]

Will you be talking about the development of outer worlds?

[@calebszyszkiewicz719]

YAYYYY!!!🎉🎉🎉

[@brendanodonnell3960]

Hi Tim, I remember that during the Kickstarter for Pillars of Eternity (or maybe shortly thereafter) some fans on the forums were lobbying for the game to be turn-based. I thought I remembered you making a comment in defense of Pause-and-Play/RTWP (something about it being capable of providing a satisfying tactical experience if designed correctly?). Would you be willing to talk about what led to you internally suggesting a turn-based option? Was that something you were always interested in or did it come about later in the development process? Also, how similar was the turn-based mode that shipped with Deadfire to the ideas you suggested to Brian McIntosh? Were your suggestions design related or purely about the coding side?

[@madmax9009]

Hi Tim, great work, always interesting! I have a questions for you. 1. On what environment did you worked on? Windows or apple? Thank you.

[@socialo124]

Hey Tim! Hope you're doing okay, I'm wondering how you guys really developed the Fallout story and main plot, the bombs dropping and all.❤

[@socialo124]

@@teabulls I'd prefer a dedicated video, but thanks!

[@BillyKeeney]

He has a playlist titled “Fallout” with 33 videos. What you’re asking for has been covered a few times. Well worth your time to watch through that playlist

[@JavierBonnemaison]

Tim, can you make a video on refactoring in video games?

[@waybackintheday101]

Once, if, you run out of video ideas are we able to get some Tim Cain let's plays. Or even your thoughts about (not objective reviews) video games that you are/have recently played or looked into? [I have horrible grammer. Forgive my run on sentences!]

[@Tribophopic]

Maybe I’ll take another look at that game

[@fixpontt]

spell system in Tyranny is genius (but unbalanced) i dont understand why other games dont copy the basic idea and develop it because it is sooooo good

[@echoness_]

6:00 Got me, cute.

[@MyDark]

Hey! This was probably asked before somewhere in a comment, but I wanted to know if you've played or plan to play Baldur's Gate 3, I would really love a video with your thoughts on it. Maybe even a gameplay stream? :)

[@MultiYoshiman]

i love the loyalty and fear system of tyranny, and i wish more games copied it

[@TheNamesDitto]

Is there any way we can crowdfund a Tyranny sequel? 😢

[@TheRuzenqures]

Hey tim, watched every vids! Keep doing this. You mentioned poe2 turn based and i accually like poe2 turn based due to initiative system being dynamic. Did you come up with that?

[@OniFeez]

I loved the game, but I really felt it was unfinished though. As in the story just sort of stops. My expectation was that we'd at least talk/meet/fight the Archon? The big bad guy who was successful.

[@Sigsen]

I am satisfied

[@leopetrov3872]

Hello, Tim, I have a question - whose idea was to implement low intelligence dialogues in Fallouts and Arcanum?

[@SSS-yk2wv]

Is it possible for Tyranny to get an ai mod that acts like Deadfire "Gambit" system?

[@mojahedrudainee2209]

@CainOnGames why great games has Shortest Development Time? E.g. New vegas, tyranny...

[@bobbinsthethird]

Tyranny had a great opening. The ending ran out of steam

[@spritefroggy]

I know that you are totally not at all about tearing down another's game to raise yours up, but I think that in the dark abyss of procedurally generated space games (a very recent one...) The Outer Worlds comes to mind as a nicely contrasted handmade RPG.

[@thedude7319]

06:15 did you note down those good ideas ?

[@Schizm1]

One of the saddest games ever made... Not because of the story or antything, but because it's SUCH an interesting world, lore, characters etc. and yet - Because of the poor sales we won't get a sequel. IP is also stuck in a limbo. Also, the fact that the game ends of a cliffhanger doesn't help :(

[@demnix6210]

I bought Tyranny, based purely on how much I loved the soundtrack. Picked it up on sale off steam. Unfortunately I found the controls very clunky and the start of the game was a real slog.

[@ids1024]

'Religion' is a vague enough concept that there's not really an answer to whether or not all cultures have it. Having 'gods' is definitely far from universal, as are many other things you might expect 'religion' to involve. It's also interested that Tolkien also intentionally chose not to have anything distinctly 'religious' in his fantasy universe. Soup being universal is probably a good bet though.

[@tyronewilliams2638]

You can't be everything at once. In their og pitch (and still in their marketing) they said "Cyberpunk is first and foremost an RPG, with a lot of choice and consequence, backgrounds etc. It's obviously not that and will never be. Cyberpunk 2077 is an okay game. But despite the updates it's still that. Just a bit less janky and a bit more flashy

[@emirefli]

Oh you mean the game… got it got it

[@renaigh]

you seem to have developed a lot of games, what are you, some kind of Game Designer?

[@bratttn]

welcome to the channel, the man in question is the god father of the original Fallout

[@1sweetree]

​@@bratttnAre you sure?

[@bratttn]

the god edict is not a good idea. The edicts have a purpose and can be fulfilled and if not, then a consequence is in place. But what is the purpose of the no religion edict and why would the proclaimer be affected? I see no logic in this hence scrapping is the way to go.

[@dutcher268]

Unrelated but tim you look like the delay lama vst in the thumbnail.

[@Hwood88]

my dream is one day chris avellone becomes semi retired and makes youtube videos