Development Percentage For Coffee Roasting

[@defundtheshorts8722]

This excellent video just saved me precious time and pounds of coffee.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Great to hear Ron! What type of roaster are you using?

[@lordmmg]

I received my roaster 5 days ago. It's a "Cafe Pro", a mexican brand of local made roasters here in Mexico. It's a 1.0Kg roaster. Let me thank you because I've learned (and still learning) so much watching your videos. 🔥

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello lordmmg, thank you for watching. I’m glad my videos have been helpful for you. I looked for the roaster online and can’t seem to find it. Is it a drum roaster? I guess it probably is if it is 1k?

[@chuckster623]

It was interesting to see you make various adjustments as the roast progressed. It was surprising to me that just a few seconds and a few degrees could make a noticeable difference in the taste of the coffee. However, with my underdeveloped coffee palette, I would never been able to detect the differences in taste, flavor, and aroma that you were able to discern. Good informative video as usual.

[@erharddinges8855]

Same to me!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Chuck, thanks for your comments. My sniffer and taste buds are not that great. The differences were subtle but noticeable. within the range I was testing we were moving from a lightly developed coffee to a fully developed coffee. There was 55 seconds of roast time from the first pull at 15% all the way through to the last pull at 23%. That is a long time and if you try your coffee with a 55 second longer or shorter development time you will probably be able to detect a difference. It would be a good exercise to try. It was a lot of fun and showed some interesting results. I'm glad you watched my video and shared your comments Chuck. I'm thankful it was good info for you!

[@MrPeden123]

I was just playing around with DTR myself ,this video couldn't have come at a better time. I just want to sat thanks for all the free in depth info, its invaluable for a new home roaster.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Glad it helped Peter. It is a fun hobby and I am still learning. It is nice to be able to share through my videos so people can watch and see how I am roasting. Remind me, what roaster are you using?

[@MrPeden123]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Actually using a nuvo eco ceramic with an IR Thermometer, the consistency of the temperature readings are inconsistent but workable when you're aware of them

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, I can see how managing temps on that little roaster would be a challenge. Are you happy with the end result in your cup?

[@abiggs]

Thanks again for the great video. I’m going to try this technique this week to see how it works with the Bullet.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I would be interested to hear how it goes Aaron. Keep me posted.

[@bluesfool1]

Nice! Looks like a good way to dial in a roast pretty efficiently. The trier on my bullet is small but I may be able to get enough pulled out.

[@luigicollins3954]

Hi Jason. I may be acquiring a Bullet soon in my roasting hobby, so I will keep a close watch on any posts you might have about using it. I do notice that the trier is a bit smaller on the Bullet compared to the Mill City. So I guess you will just have to take samples more quickly to get enough coffee to cup, right?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Jason, yea, you’ll have to work quickly. I got about 12 grams per percentage range and my trier isn’t that big but from what I’ve seen, the bullet is even smaller. If I would have held the dish closer to the trier port I could have pulled more, so that might help you get a large enough sample.

[@andreavon3551]

Great video, I absolutely will try this, love the sugar cane process for decaf, actually the only decaf I love has been sugar cane process!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Sounds great! Let me know what your experience was like doing this Andre.

[@RobertFarwell-l6l]

Could you comment on the weight loss percentage of the preferred roast level, which I usually use to determine roast level along with color. Thanks

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Robert, you bet. I'm using Rob Hoos scale as seen here: hoos.coffee/blog/why-take-weight-loss-percentage Rob is great source of information and I respect his experience, expertise, and teachings. I would highly recommend any of his easy-to-read books. Here is Rob Hoos' scale: 22% Weight Loss If you’re not on fire, you’re getting pretty close. This is extremely dark roast territory and I (Rob) would recommend avoidance.

[@shanewilson2152]

Hi Mike, gaind a lot more information the second time around.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That’s good news Shane. Glad the vide and especially watching how I use Artisan during the roast was helpful for you.

[@MD-wk3gj]

I believe every video of yours I watch KZbin plays a 7-Eleven coffee ad. I would NEVER go to 7/11 for a coffee! 🤣

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, I've seen those and also some roasting equipment, brewing equipment from fellows.

[@headchange4u]

I really enjoy your videos. I've been home roasting since 2007, and the last few years I've been using an RK system, roasting soley by sight and smell (and sound if I'm being honest). I just recently picked up a 3 kilo commercial roaster, so your videos have been very informative in my progression to my new machine. I'd love to see videos on dark roasting with your Mill City. Personally I don't care for dark roasts, but as I started selling coffee I found that a lot of customers gravitate toward dark roasts. I blame Charbucks :p

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi @headchange4u thanks for sharing your comments and your question. Yea, there are lots of people who roast outside on a grill. That's pretty cool. Are you using a probe to monitor temperatures? That would be really interesting to monitor temperatures and log your roast. It would really help you in your transition towards your 3k drum roaster. If you have a chance, watch my video I did with Trevor. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIq5Z6yQmdmNoJI He started out on a Behmor and now runs a cafe, roasting on a 12 kilo drum roaster. The topic of dark roasted coffee was talked about indirectly with Trevors "coffee for everyone". I believe this is a really important topic that should be considered from two views. 1. Roast Darkness (temperature) 2. Roast Development I think we need to clarify what "Dark Roast" entails. If I follow you with the "Charbucks" reference, then dark roasts are bitter and flat, not sweet and complex. They go past 2nd crack with drop temps in the 420 range. The question is, "Can we serve a consumer a well developed coffee with chocolate, earthy notes without going into second crack?" I think Trevor is doing that with "a coffee for everyone". I believe it is possible AND once a person who normally drinks from a the largest coffee shop chain tries the coffee I just described, I think most will enjoy it. Hope my comments were helpful. Thank you for watching my video and I hope your roasting business is successful.

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

What the hell? My coffee is boiling hot so it must be fresh! The burnt to hell beans taste so good with a lot of sugar and a few shots of flavouring. I know what good coffee is because a massive corporation told me it is good, plus I overpay, so it must be worth it. Oh, oh, if i drink anything else, people on social media won't give me a like, and that would make me need my safe place or cancel my free subscription to their channel. Idk why you even try so hard to just make coffee. My pod system does everything for me. Seriously, though. Way to go on your new roaster. It sounds super dope. May you have many great cups to come.

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

Can we get an update on your roaster???😊😊😊

[@johnferris764]

Thanks good info. Try out on my kaldi mini

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I would be interested to hear how it works out for you John. Thanks for watching and for your comment

[@erharddinges8855]

Great!! You did a lot of preparationwork and afterwork for providing this compact video. Very useful for the community of home roasters! Neil Wilson did this on a big roaster. 40 minutes warm up is a good idea! Always soaking? Any considerations before starting the roast? For taking samples a better construction device would be needed!? When you have a new green, how do you know, when 1.crack will occur and how to match it with your intended percentages? Experience only? Roasting a little amount with another equipment? My roasts do very often run away and I must slow down dramatically. What is more important, percentages or delining RoR ? Or better taste when cupping beyond all numbers?

[@danknoize]

Technically 1st crack happens (or is supposed to) at 395F but what a temp probe says will depend on probe placement, quality, type and thickness. As you can see Mike's setup said FC was 383F. You have to get to know your system though, how fast the beans respond to input. Take as many notes as you can so you can look back and see when you should start making changes so the roast doesn't run away. It's very important to keep your Between Batch Protocol/BBP as consistent as possible, otherwise your notes won't be as helpful as they could/should be. Percentage and RoR aren't really comparable. It's not really about one vs the other. It is really a question of the availability of realtime RoR, if you have it, great. Percentages are always available and informative when cupping different roasts and deciding on one profile vs another. The RoR is more helpful in determining where a specific roast went specifically (or generally) awry or not, or helping to compare the consistency between roasts. And of course, taste overrules all other data. From my experience/understanding 🙂

[@erharddinges8855]

Thank you - ​agree to all, but I repeatedly observed, that C1 occurs earlier and at a lower BT- probe temp. when applying more heat at start. So C1 temp. for me is not a pre-given number. Would be happy one could find out with standardized methods before.

[@danknoize]

@@erharddinges8855 yes, that is part of my point but maybe I wasn't clear. FC will generally have a slight variance between variety, origin and growing conditions but it generally shouldn't be enough of a variance for you to not know it is coming within a max variance of 5F, whether your system shows FC starting at 398F, 360F or anywhere else for that matter. And your charge temp or heating plan should not have an effect on the FC temp. If that is the case I suspect your system has some other issue/s going on. Obviously I have no idea what your setup is. Regardless it is only with experience of a given roaster (a variety of different beans roasted on said roaster helps immensely also) that one can gauge a heating plan to get to FC at a specific time and then adjust the heat accordingly to end where/when you want to. I have a friend (professional roaster w 15kg machine) whose roast system always showed FC around 360F. He was (and I'm sure still is) a stellar roaster that has a nordic roasting approach to roasting. It is not necessarily important what temp the sensor is reading FC at, but more so that it is consistent and then a question of what you do from there (well, really, how the roast is managed from start to end is important. No one phase is more important than another. The so-called development phase is the one phase that is the most delicate esp when roasting light/nordic) 😁

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Erhard. I'm glad you found the video useful. Yea, it took some time to put all of that together. I would like to do more like that in the future. I think I have seen the video you are talking about. That was a big roaster. I learned a huge lesson this past week about pre-warming my roaster. The longer the pre-warm, the more consistent my roasts will be. So, my 20-30 minute warm-up is now 30-40 minutes. My son and I roasted about 17.5 Kilos of coffee in the last week on my 500 gram roaster. That is a lot of roasting . It was for a non-profit organization. I don't normally get involved with something like that but it was for a good cause. No profit involved, strictly a cost basis thing. I worked out my duty cycle so each charge had a consistent BT and ET. Each roast was really predictable and i soon got into a nice groove. It was all the same coffee. So, that leads me to your question about soaking. I soak for several reasons, and it is personal choice. I soak because: 1. I usually charge my roaster with an elevated ET so when both ET and BT drop at charge, I can add power to the roast at the exact moment I need so I can reach my target Dry End time. I know that might sound strange but it works for me. If I were to charge with my ET and BT being about the same, it would take my roast longer than I want to make my Dry End time. So, charging at 380 with an ET of 380 would require me to have my gas ON immediately at charge. 2. I would rather NOT have my gas on at charge so I can allow the beans to experience a "soft entry" into the heat rather than have it blasting from charge. I want to avoid tipping or other roast defects. So, the soak seems to be an easy way to accomplish both 1 & 2. 3. I like the soak because it gives me a real reading of how the beans are responding to the temperatures in the drum. By monitoring my descent of BT and ET, I am able to get a pulse of how much energy I will need for the remaining dry end. When I hit Turning Point, oh boy, I have all the info I need to make my mark, including any adjustments I might need to make in my gas. Now first crack. @Dan Kennedy mentions below that 1st crack happens at 395. In Scott Rao's "Coffee Roasting Best Practices", he displays a FC event of 391. My roast here had a FC temp of 383. Yes, probe placement and thickness will present different readings. Also, how fast you are pushing your coffee will also influence your FC temp. Lastly, the type of coffee you are roasting will present a different FC temperature. In my case, it is a Colombian Decaf which always cracks a little early. So, it will vary from coffee to coffee and from roaster to roaster. I think what is most important is understanding the behavior of your roaster and how that will impact your roasts. I've used my roaster long enough to know when something weird is happening to my roast. Windy days, Mechanical issues, vents that need cleaning can all create changes in my "normal" roasting environment. So, My FC and your FC will probably be a little different but that is OK. Lastly ROR. I have been intentionally not talking about ROR that much because I want the focus to be about understanding and practicing on controling our roast phase. If we do that, ROR will more than likely represent a descending line from Dry End to Drop. It might not be pretty but it is a starting point. My intention is to talk about ROR to roasters who are ready to get more focused on their profile. They have the phase thing figured out and can control their roaster, now we can talk about heat management, hot spots, FC flicks, crashed and all of that fun stuff BUT phase times and percentages will help a home roaster get some good results and stay motivated to learn, practice and roast that "golden cup". One thing to keep in mind about ROR: unless you are connected to logging software, monitoring ROR will be difficult while roasting. That encompasses about half of the viewers on my channel I think. I plan to have some videos dealing with ROR in the near future.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching my video Dan. I appreciate your comment and sharing your experiences here. I responded to the FC topic and a little on ROR here in the thread Erhard started. I think we share the same principles where phase times and percentages are more important. ROR is a great reference indicator and a descending ROR is always a good idea, but it doesn't always happen AND many times not really noticeable to me and my taste buds. I'll be talking more about my experiences with ROR in future videos but in the end, you are right, taste is king.

[@EllisInspectionService]

The little uptick in the burner at the end of the roast.. you mentioned you should have seen it coming and avoided it. Please tell me how and why. Would it change the coffee flavor at all?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Jim, what is the time on the video , not artisan, when I said that. I want to look at the graph. As far as small changes up or down, most of the time I am not able to detect a defect caused by this. It could be my inability to taste it, my lack of training in this area or maybe it is because it didn’t really have a noticeable negative impact on taste. I’ll wait to hear back from yiu with the time so I can better answer your question about the uptick. Thanks for watching my video.

[@EllisInspectionService]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab After watching again it was a non issue at 12:09 in the video. I appreciate your knowledge and teaching - thank you

[@miin108]

Hi, I have been a fan of your channel from day 1 of my coffee roasting. Just wanted to know with regards to the percentage of the stages. What happens if we roast 2 batches but with different total roast time but same percentage of the stages upon adjustments. Such as 2 batches of 100g green beans. 1st batch total roast time 8 mins (5: /3/2) and 7 mins (5/3/2). Moisture loss more or less the same. How to determine total roast time? Have cracked them up and both are evenly roast. Thank you and looking forward to your reply.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yes, I believe total roast time impacts flavors. The amount of time spent in the milliard phase will be longer on the longer total roast time. This means you won't get a really acidic coffee with the longer roast. You still might get some but it will be tamed down. At some point in my "profile series" we will talk about this. My "introduction to the profile" video I recently posted does put a bug in your ear with regards to your question; "how to determine total roast time"? My question in the video was "How do I know what profile to use?" They are the same question but different. If you watch that video and listen to the part where I talk about our roasting machine's capabilities, this is the beginning of your answer. In my next video I will peel the onion a little more as we do a roast. So, consider your roaster and its capabilities. Think about how long it takes for you to get your coffee to "dry end" without roasting defects. If it is an air roaster, it could be 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 minutes. On a drum roaster, it might take 4-5 minutes or longer. We will work within the range of our roaster's efficiency and then put together a practical exercise to understand how our roster best performs. Then there is bean size, density and process that will also influence your total roast time. Lastly the batch size and roast level will factor in as well. What roaster are you using? What coffee are you roasting? What roast level is your Goal? What is your batch size? Let me know and I will try to help.

[@miin108]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab @VirtualCoffeeLab thank you for your detailed reply. Yes I came across the video and seen it already which I understood as well. But your explanation on the longer maillard phase due to longer total roast time explains it well. So in the end if I get both good roasts, taste will determine which roast time suits the coffee. total roast time will affect the acidity of the coffee baring in mind bothe total roast time, I am able to get almost similar outcome and profile. I am using an ikawa home coffee roaster that I am able to create a roast curve with. I was roasting a washed bourbon kenyan peaberrt My aim was getting light to medium roast My batch size is 100g I have roasted both with different total time but similar profile and moisture lost. Just a matter of tasting both to help me understand more on impact of total roast time. Thank you once again on the reply ☺️

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I would be interested hearing your thoughts on what you taste and if it coorelates to what we have talked about. I didn't realize you were roasting on the IKAWA.

[@peakkopi9411]

Good video. Roasting Decaf doing those development % can be more tricky depending our the process and kind of Arabica origin the maker used. For normal process coffee I don't smell ashy notes at 23% DTR. Can you do this exercise like 15 - 20 secs added for every sampling?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Peak Kopi, thank you for watching my video. I roast decaf every week. One thing I noticed is you can't trust the color. I'm currently roasting a colombian decaf and my son is roasting a hondouran. Each of these is a delicious decaf that we take roast 18-20% with great results. Yes, you can sample based on time if you like. The App I was using was free and acted as a timer and also displayed prcentages as well. Pretty handy!

[@lucasbintoro2790]

why did you turn off gas when you dropped the green beans? what's the theory behind it? Is it a rule of thumb to always turn off the gas when dropping the green beans? lastly, what happens when you dont turn off the gas? Thank you in advance

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Lucas, thanks for your question. On a drum roaster, there are several techniques used during the charge and dry events. The technique I used was the "soak" technique. This is where I turn off my gas at the very beginning of the roast for anywhere from 30 seconds to 1 minute. I used this technique for several reasons. 1. Allow the beans to take on the heat without additional intense heat that could cause roasting defects. 2. To allow the drum environment to be hotter at charge to begin to move the roast through the drying phase without having too short of a drying time, promoting a more even roast through the bean. The goal is to dry the coffee all the way through and if I push the coffee with too much heat in the beginning I can have a darker bean on the outside, compared to the inside. 3. This gives me a short time to catch my breath and see how my temperatures react to the cold beans being dumped into the drum. 4. I have target temperatures I like my ET to climb to and stay at during the roast. I know how long it takes for my temps to rise and the soak helps me stay on track to reach my ET temp close to the dry end event. Could I still roast good coffee without using the soak? Yes, many people do and I have as well. Currently, my roaster has a problem with the igniter so I can't turn off the gas during the roast. So, Instead of turning my gas all the way off I turn it down to a very low level. It is all about personal preference and what you are used to. I was taught to use the soak when I did my intro course at Mill City Coffee Roasters. I need to fix my igniters. ;-) If I were to leave my gas on I would probably charge (drop the beans in) at a lower temperature. This would compensate for the additional energy used during the roast. My dry time would still be close to the same as well. I hope that answers your questions. Do you roast on a drum roaster? What do you have?

[@lucasbintoro2790]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab wow! A very comprehensive answer. Thank you so much. I am a beginner roaster with 6 months experience in roasting via frying pan. I am from SE Asia but I had my engineering degree from the US. Recently (still in the making), I just bought my own 1Kg drum roasting machine. I plan on becoming a roaster myself and making it into a business. Hopefully I can sell my coffee to your country haha... Your answer is very interesting. Very good point on bringing up Mill City Roasters as they are also my online "teacher"; you are as well. Your videos have bunch of data analysis from artisan, which I like a lot. Mill City has bunch of theories and in depth explanation. I am combining the two and hopefully by the time I receive my roaster machine, I can begin my own real journey into roasting coffee, bye bye frying pan haha... The reason I asked the question was because on Mill City, they taught people to reduce gas instead of off gas when dropping green beans. But now after your full explanation, I understand your reasoning, and it makes sense. I guess there are many roads to achieve good roast no matter what kind of problem we have on the machine (such as igniter problem) as long as we could tweak some of the knobs to achieve the same if not better result. Again, I appreciate your full on explanation. I haven't finished watching all of your videos, but I plan to. I hope you keep posting amazing videos! Cheers!

[@JoshSeals]

Hey, new to roasting and I’ve been enjoying watching your videos. I have a Behmor 1600 and have mostly been using moisture loss % as a way to see what level of roast the coffee is, usually shoot for 13-14% for a good medium roast. Is this an accurate way to determine roast level, or should I do something different?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Josh, Thanks for watching. Color, texture of the bean, bean temperature, AND moisture loss are all ways to understand your coffee roasting level. I agree, 13-14% is a nice medium in my book for central americans. I tend to roast a little lighter for many of the african coffees BUT ultimately it comes down to what tasting notes you want for each coffee you are roasting. the medium roast you are getting is a safe place to be as far as tasting notes. Sounds like you are already using moisture loss so consider getting familiar with ending color, bean texture, and temperature and use this additional info to confirm. Some coffees might already have low moisture content before roasting so I wonder if this might skew the results. Hmmm, even more reason to use these other data points to help confirm.

[@davidmcmutrtey979]

Can you help me find the roast tracking app you talked about? At least wheat video it may be in?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

It is called coffee roasting timer app and found here coffeeroastingtimer.github.io

[@stevenreeves4766]

When you're talking about the temp that you take it to are you talking about bean temp?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Steven, Yes, I am referring to bean temperature. Temperatures and color are best determination for roast level measurement.

[@daybidd3]

Hello! Huge fan of your channel and all your roasting videos! As a new home roaster using a fresh roast SR-540, I certainty think that I would greatly benefit from this exercise! What artisan settings did you enable for you to display those time values next each phase percentage? Thanks in advance!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your kind comments and for watching my videos! I’m pretty sure that by default the time values appear during your roast. Have you connected artisan to your computer? Have you hit the start button to see your temps? Once you hit the charge button and begin the roast, the system begins to log times and temps. At turning point you will begin to see your anticipated dry event time. After you mark dry end the estimated first crack times will appear and so on. Let me know if you aren’t seeing those.

[@Wichard1969]

very helpfull indeed!! thanks a lot!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

You are welcome Richard. Thanks for watching and for the encouragement!

[@erharddinges8855]

Do you have a colour- meter? Do you think ,it could behelpful for a hobbyroaster.I would like to see you experiment with higher differences also. Some coffees are saud to be delightful at unexpected low endpoints,others have highlights at different temperatures. Neil Wilsons showed that.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I think a color meter would/could be really helpful for someone who is trying to dial in a coffee. My roast example here kind of shows a poor mans version of a color meter. The human is the meter 😁 How practical it is for a home roaster really boils down to cost. They are pretty expensive aren't they? What do you mean "higher differences"? Roast levels that are darker or a larger span of time between samples pulled?

[@erharddinges8855]

The most affordable comes from India -Sensegood portable colorimeter-I will not buy now.

[@alaskavaper966]

Great video.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching and for your encouraging comment!

[@Musayansa256]

Regarding different processing methods

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Lubega, was this part of your other question related to sweetness?

[@Musayansa256]

I meant how long should I roast for different roast levels and different processing methods

[@luigicollins3954]

Excellent video again Mike! I have always wanted to "pull" from the beans at various stages as they go through the Final Development Phase, but it is not possible in the Behmor. :-). So it is really good to see you do it here. It's very rare to see it being done on other channels. So is there ever any problems with little dips or blips in the ROR curve as it declines? It seems to not make a big deal of difference in the cup, right?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

There may be some who disagree Lou, but the dips you see on that roast I did don’t seem to have any really notice impact on the cup. It was really windy here and my roaster vents outside. Even though I have a wind barrier setup around the vent outside, a gust of wind would play havoc on my exhaust temp and roaster flame, all which causes bumps in my ror. Coffee still tasted great 👍. I’m not disagreeing that significant changes in ror can’t effect the flavor profile, I just haven’t been able to detect the minor ones. Thanks for the encouragement about My video!

[@saedalnaimat]

Hello. I am a new user and I just started using Hottop B KN-8828B-2K+ roaster with Artisan software. I am struggling to keep my development phase above 10% because once the 1st crack happens the coffee is already so dark that I have to drop it in a minute otherwise it gets too dark. Any ideas on what wrong am I doing?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Saed, thanks for watching. Yes, you have too much momentum. You are going into first crack with too high a ROR. Look at that roast you mentioned with the 10% development phase. Notice the ROR number at First Crack. You will see it on the far right side of the graph. That number needs to be lower. You enter First Crack and the beans are popping really fast right? So, you need to lower your heat so your ROR has a downward trend and when you reach First Crack you will have a low enough rate of increase to be able to extend the development phase with without the higher ending (drop) temperatures. Look at your ROR at the end of your roast as well. Does that make sense?

[@saedalnaimat]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab yes makes sense thanks a lot! I’ll try these adjustments and see how it goes 🤞

[@hpgurgel]

Thanks Mike, another great video. I don't seem to be getting that nice aroma from my beans even after having them rest for a week or so. It's also lacking sweetness although I used Ethiopian and Costa Rican beans. My development was around 15-18%(I use a Behmor). Any suggestions as to what I should be changing?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

HP, it could be a few things, older beans that have lower moisture or your phase percentages. You mention the development, but not the dry or browning. If your browning phase is too long, that could be a contributor. Also, consider your total roast time. I pushed some Ethiopian beans pretty hard with the heat to achieve a short roast time and the outcome was not very good on the Behmor. How long is your roast?

[@hpgurgel]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for getting back to me. I did 5 batches over last weekend, dry was around 50-60%, browning around 25-35%. I used the maximum charging temperature I could on my Behmor which is 164 Celsius and pushed it just past the first crack. These beans might have been old, I'd had for around 16 months. I also roasted some Brazil Bourbon one which I literally just tried now and had a much better result. I used a lower charge temperature on this one though. These are around 6 months old. I guess, as you suggested, the age of the beans might have played a part in the end result here?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, my experience is the older beans begin to dry out a little and when we roast them the result is a less exciting, less flavorful coffee. Glad you are experiencing some good coffee!

[@Musayansa256]

How long should someone roast for different roast levels like medium dark and dark roasts without destroying the sweetness and flavours

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That is difficult to answer. Once you hit second crack (even a little before) you begin to loose the sweetness window. It depends on your roaster, beans, and more. With regards to "development", you will need to test various times and taste the difference . I have enjoyed coffee that had sweet notes that roasted for 7 minutes and I have had other coffees that had longer roast times like 12 minutes that had sweet notes. Sorry I can't be more specific. What type of roaster do you have?

[@Musayansa256]

Khaldi fortis roster

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

OK, the Kaldi is a drum roaster with temperature probles. Sweetness answer will be at the end. One method is to determine by taste. You saw me do that here in this video. I did a roast and pulled coffee from the roast at different levels. The method I use most of the time is to use sight, smell and artisan to monitor development percentages and temperature. Sight - Once the bean reaches first crack the bean has a wrinkled look. It is called modeling i think. I use this to help me determine my roast level. For the roast level I like (on the lighter side of medium) I take the bean far enough into development where there the bean is just barely beginning to smooth out and swell. You might find you like your roast a little darker. Watch the bean color and texture. Going a little darker the bean will smooth out and begin to get a little shiny (not oily). That is a full medium roast. Smell - I use smell to determine acidy level and as soon as the acidity starts to fade I get ready to drop my coffee Temperature & Development Percentage - Once you get use to using artisan, begin to watch for things that you can refer to and compare from roast to roast. The drop temperature is one. This is really important. That temperature will almost always coorelate to the color of your bean. So consider these two measurements together when thinging about temperature. Also the development percentage artisan uses can be another gauge to determine how "developed" your beans are. Now, sweetness. Higher density beans usually are sweeter. Assuming you are roasting a high density bean, you want to have a roast time that is long enough to allow for flavor development and camelization. That doesn't necessarily mean roasting dark. There is a sweetness "window" which you can miss. Too early and you have a tart sometimes vegetal taste. Too late and you have a dirty, darker more bitter note. The window will provide a roast that has some of the origin (tasting notes on the bag) as well as subtle sweetness. So, if you are looking for a starting point to try with your Kaldi, consider a 10 minute total roast time. Aim for a 5 minute dry phase with about 3 minutes in the middle phase and 2 minutes in the development phase. If you follow these times your ROR will generally be a downward trend from the end of dry until drop. Let me know how it goes.

[@apeschell]

Sorry if it’s a dumb question, but is development percentage different from percentage lost during roast?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your message. I'm sorry for such a late answer. Your message was blocked by KZbin and never made it into my messages. It is not a dumb question you have asked. Development percentage is different from percentage loss during the roast. Development percentage is the percentage of time spent in the development phase. There are 3 phases that take place during a coffee roast 1. Dry phase (beginning of roast until the beans turn yellow) 2. Middle phase (Maillard Phase, Browning phase). This phase goes from yellow until first crack. 3. Development phase (first crack until end of roast) The percentage loss during roast is the amount of moisture loss that takes place during a total roast. You weigh the green coffee before the roast, then weigh your coffee aster your roast. Take the weight of the roasted coffee and divide it by the weight of the green coffee and you will get a decimal. Convert that into a percentage and that is your total weight loss, which will indicate the roast level you have accomplished. Again, my apologies for the late response. Thank you for watching my video and for being a subscriber!

[@apeschell]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab ah ok yeah I saw on the app you suggested that it was a different percent that makes sense tho thank you for explaining!

[@johnsnow3602]

Another great video 👍 I have two questions, one is that when to call the end of dry will affect the both dry phase and brown phase time and percentages. Would it be good to look at the total dry and brown time and percentage because FC is easy to identify? The other question is that which is better, a good percentage distribution with a long time, meaning very low ROR or good percentage distribution with short time? Thank you.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi John, You are roasting on a Hottop right? The moment you call dry end or first crack will influence all of your times and percentages. Are you having difficulty determining dry end? Use a flashlight if it is too dark OR if your roaster has a yellow light so you can clearly see the color of the beans. The goal is to call yellow when the beans have no green left. Phase percentage distribution is important on all roasts. Long roasts or short roasts, which is better? This all depends on your personal preference. for darker roast, longer roast times and a more shallow descent of ROR curve is a common approach. I hope that helps.

[@johnsnow3602]

I guess my problem is that not all the beans are becoming yellow at same time. If I wait they all become yellow then a portion of them is too yellow and they will reach to FC sooner. But if I call DE when there’s still some being light greenish, I feel like cheating. 😃

[@johnsnow3602]

And yes, I am using Hottop roaster, it behaves differently from the gas one. Wish you can give some tips. When I save enough, I may go for a small gas roaster, similar capacity to the Hottop.

[@johnsnow3602]

Btw, your suggestions are always helpful. And thank you so much for your responses to the posted comments, not just mine but all of them. I read every single of them.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

How long is your dry phase John?

[@jerryhubbard4461]

Why does it take so long to pre-heat this machine?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Jerry. It only takes about 20 minutes to heat up. In reality, I could go from cold to charge temperature in about 10 minutes BUT the metal drum and roasting chamber area needs to absorb heat and become kind of like an oven. So 20 minutes is the minimum time for warm up. I happened to be busy with other stuff setting up for the roast and the roaster was warming up for about 40 minutes.

[@jerryhubbard4461]

I totally understand. I have started roasting beans but with my home made roaster. I don't have the money to purchase a really good machine so I just do my best. Right now I have the flour sifter going on using hot air. I mounted the gun under a table I made in my wood shop. Put the sifter about 4 inches from the heat and so far it is doing a pretty good job. I know it will never make coffee like your machine will but it is fun anyway. I am drinking some now that I did a few days ago but it is a little light. Very sweet taste. I did a roast about 5 days ago and took it to second crack and a min beyond. It turned out really good. A hobby for me but I do a lot or research watching your channel and James Hoffman. Thanks for answering my post. @@VirtualCoffeeLab

[@shanewilson2152]

Great video Mike, l got a lot from it. I will try some of your techniques on my roaster

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Cool, it's a great exercise in determining roast level. First thing you need to work out is the overall roast profile in your phases, then you can pull samples during development to determine how far to go. Thanks for watching Shane. Glad it was helpful.

[@gerassimos.fourlanos]

Obviously the video is only for Americans. We, the rest of the World, do not understand Farehheit.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for sharing. You’ll notice my more recent videos do include Celsius.

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

F and C is so polarising, I use whichever works best for the specific application. Coffee seems to work well with Celsius and grams However I use FlOz for the amount of water I drink each day, ml for vape juice, feet for flying altitude, Celsius for body temp, feet and inches for body height, mph for driving, I know you didn't ask nor probably care but my point is since I learned different ways to measure things, I feel I can better understand what works best for me and I've helped others to understand what may help them measure and understand better