Deviation of the Ummah - Past & Present - Bilal Philips

[@abdelbaasit1]

"The graves of sinners from the People of Sunnah is a garden, while the graves of the pious ascetics from the People of Innovation is a barren pit. The sinners among Ahlus-Sunnah are the Friends of Allaah, while the pious among Ahlul-Bid'ah are the Enemies of Allaah." -- Quote from the great Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (رحمه الله).

[@shaykha]

JazaakAllah Khair

[@taimur74]

Awesome lecture . Every single one of these issues are present in Pakistan from where I am from .. May Allah (SWT) guide us to ahdere to the Quran and Sunnah

[@belid2010]

Masha Allah wonderful information, Jazaka Allah Kheiren.

[@chelseyummali]

I wish there was reference to the Ibn Majah Sunan.

[@ludwigau]

>>"the burden of proof is upon the person claiming its an act of worship." That is only true if one already believes it is NOT an act of worship. If, however, one already believe it IS part of the act of worship, then the burden of proof is on the person who claims it is not.

[@ludwigau]

>>"he has the choice" ...just as he did have the choice of using a colorful prayer mat (I assume you know that such material was available at the time), AND YET he did not choose it. One might even use one's commonsense and say that it was as if he was avoiding such paraphernalia.

[@ludwigau]

>>"because there is no evidence to suggest they did" So the operating principle here is: if a particular thing is not explicitly declared haram, it should be treated as halal? Yes?

[@ludwigau]

>>"the prophet did use a palm leaf mat." I agree. And I hope you agree that he did NOT use, nor did he sanction, a colorfully woven mat. >>"and its not an act of worship because its just a mat you put on the floor so you dont have to sit or put your head on something which isnt clean." Okay, now think about that. Why do you automatically believe it is "just a mat", but you don't think that the way the Prophet(saw) moved his hands in prayer is "just moving hands".

[@ludwigau]

>>"All ibadat are haram unless declared halal." Okay, so back to my original question: how do you know that a prayer mat - an object that is specifically and only used for prayer/worship by the vast majority of Muslims - does NOT fall within the category of ibadat (and given that the Prophet[saw] never used one and never verbally sanctioned the use of them)?

[@ludwigau]

>>Could you bring another example? I wanted to know about this e.g. because that's the one referred to in the video. A prayer mat is not like sifting flour - it is an aspect of prayer & thus ibadat. If the Prophet(s) used palm leaves & the sahaba used clothing for the forehead, then doesn't that make everything else (such as standard prayer mats) bid'a?

[@ludwigau]

Didn't he study under scholars who have never said anything openly critical of the House of Saud ... which after Israel, is the US's biggest ally in the Middle East?

[@ludwigau]

Can you provide proof of how they, in their minds, understood the status of woven prayer mats please?

[@ludwigau]

Okay, forget my references to 'Hanbali'. Just tell me WHY Mr Philips puts prayer mats into the adat category (thus avoiding labeling it bid'a), and does not put it into the ibadat category instead. ...And, as you would say, "bring your proofs".

[@ludwigau]

"We will only follow the understanding of the SALAf" But how do you know whether you have correctly understood the understandings of the Sahaba? Isn't it possible that you have misunderstood such a thing? After all, according to Mr Philips, millions and millions of Muslims in history (indeed, the majority of Islam's most well-reputed scholars) who devoted their entire lives to the study of the religion misunderstood that very religion. Again, isn't possible you have misunderstood?

[@ludwigau]

"...get to your point already." I don't have a 'point' to make. I am just trying to figure out what your methodology is for the division between categories. At present, I still can't see what that methodology is. It looks like either (a) a home-made decision based on a commonsense 'feel' from ahadith, or [more likely, I think] (b) you have been told by a teacher that prayer mats are not part of worship and you are following their advice (backed by the fact that it seems to make sense). Yes? No?

[@ludwigau]

>>what is this "ibadat" ? and what is "adat" I don't understand why you are asking this question. Mr Philips talks about it in the above video. Don't you understand what Mr Philips is saying? It's pretty basic.

[@ludwigau]

>>"The prophet didnt carry his mat around..." That is hardly a good criterion. After all, he(saw) didn't really have a choice about whether to 'carry his arms around', did he? >>"because he said "pray as you have seen me pray". and he always raised his hands... " AND he always used a palm mat and NEVER used a colorful woven mat. Why do you feel free to follow PARTS of his example of prayer and selectively ignore other parts? Please supply rigorous proofs for your selections.

[@ludwigau]

I find it difficult to see on what basis Mr Philips is drawing his lines between acceptable and not acceptable innovation. He draws on the Hanbali CONCEPTS of ibadat and adat, but does not seem to have any CRITERION for classifying entities within these concepts. E.g. he puts prayer mats into the adat category (thus avoiding labeling it bid'a), but why not put it into the ibadat category instead?

[@wellersong7]

Why what has he done now

[@mokhan247]

silly comment

[@ludwigau]

I'm not criticising. I'm just saying he's on the Saudi payroll and therefore is on the US State Depts payroll. That's not a criticism; for example, I may - like you - agree with that arrangement.

[@ludwigau]

"He was had to leave Saudi Arabia because of his views against the Iraq war in the early 90's." He was kicked out by a faction of secular nationalists because seen as encouraging extremists. He didn't break his ties to the Saudis (& bin Bazis). He was in fact given HEAPS of money by bin Baz to wander around doing offensive dawah (& we all know where bin Baz gets HIS money from!) As you would say brother: "So speak with Knowledge brother."