Did Jesus’ Incarnation Affect the Other Persons of the Trinity?

[@naveneswaran2179]

God bless you Dr Craig Your ministry really helps a lot👍

[@MultiJpad]

God is not devoid of feelings, i believe he is sad when we sin, and joyful when we come to him.

[@briantheplaystationguy7815]

I’ve always wondered this

[@nareenmolugu1016]

If I have a very intimate relationship with someone and if they are abused or ill-treated or in any sort of pain that will obviously have an effect on me so similarly, once we establish that God is affected by things and persons outside him, we say that since all the three persons of the trinity have an intimate relationship with each other they will have an effect when Jesus incarnates as human.....this line of thought actually helps me to address issues where it feels like God the father was cruel to make Jesus suffer all the pain while he himself was unaffected Thank you very much Dr. Craig for your ministry, it has helped me abundantly in my journey _/\_

[@GraftedOliveBranch]

A very profound perspective.

[@karcharias811]

Impassability is a controversial doctrine however it has its merits. A God who could become affected would have some terrible implications for us, at least potentially. Could God be so affected by the wickedness in the world that He just wipe us out? Is God subject to moods? I am not so sure I would dismiss Impassability so easily. First of al it is a traditional doctrine only made controversial in our touchy-feely modern world. Second, the same language Craig uses here to say God is "angry" or "jealous" can be seen as similar to other anthropomorphic language that we would all agree are not literal.

[@karcharias811]

@Psicólogo Miguel Cisneros I think you may misunderstand the doctrine of impassibility. It does not mean God does not care or does not judge. It means that his caring is infinite so that He cannot care anymore then He does. Therefore nothing can affect him. He has no passion, meaning nothing can have an effect on him because you cannot effect an already infinite reality anymore then it already is. I don't see how the flood or apocalypse narratives do anything to change the doctrine. If you think it does somehow please explain. In the meantime I would recommend watching this for an excellent treatment of Impassibility. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6rTlXtumaplrpo

[@lizzard13666]

But what about their natures? If the incarnation caused Jesus to take on human nature, did this affect the nature of all 3 members of the Trinity? Did their natures all change in the same way Jesus' did? How has the incarnation affected the Father in an ontological sense? I feel like WLC's answer falls short of answering the question!

[@SpiritLife]

I completely agree!

[@boltrooktwo]

God is the example of maximally great faith not an immaterial incoherent actor. God can have all power over time, space, and matter without being timeless, spaceless, and immaterial. The Trinity is a man-made doctrine, post-apostles, that describes God as "completely other" and is incoherent bodily in composition. The scripture describes a different truth such as in Colossians 2: 4-10. Christ is the express image of God, all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[@boltrooktwo]

@Psicólogo Miguel Cisneros Where did you learn God created the universe from nothing? Show me the verse or the words and where they come from. Why does the ultimate soul have to be without substance or essentially nothing as well? These words aren’t used to describe God in revealed scripture so why do the philosophies of men supersede the words used in order to be valid?

[@pixboi]

I fail to understand the forgiveness part, of how jesus sacrifice was an act of forgiveness? Is it because god essentially "let" jesus die, and didn't intervene? Or is it because he didn't smite people as punishment like he has previously in old testament? This also combined with Jesus resurrection, for god death doesnt make a differnece. he could undo it.

[@JJJheimerschmidt]

Focus on the family released an amazing program called "the Truth project" and in it Dale Tackett teaches on how the Trinity really is not a Trinity in the New testament. Now that Jesus has paid the price and ransomed us from death and sin we now...NOW...stand beside the father the son and the holy spirit. I would add that being raised to that level is a highest level of honour. Today the spirit is here with us and in us and we are with Him in all ways and all times and moments. B.E.L.I.E.V.E.! May all those who took the time to watch this video and read the comments not only believe it but receive it and have a new transforming experience in the Lord-right now!

[@gerryquinn5578]

Dr Craig looks to scripture to see if God is passable or not. For him, the Bible is clear. Shame he doesn't look to the Bible to see if it really teaches a Trinity or not.

[@drcraigvideos]

See Dr. Craig's Defenders class for his Biblical defense of the Trinity: www.reasonablefaith.org/podcasts/defenders-podcast-series-3/s3-doctrine-of-god-trinity. - RF Admin

[@piehound]

I gave it thumbs up because it's about Christian theology . . . a subject of much speculation = guess work. But i don't accept these theories as having any practical value for everyday living. It's mere intellectual dilletantism.

[@edge4192]

Can someone help me understand. WLC says that God would be grieved at the mistreatment and abuse of His Son and I believe this would be the case. The issue is that if the Father sent the Son, which Jesus says, while also saying "I lay down my life, no one takes it from me, I have the power to lay it down and to take it back up again." Scripture is also said that it was pleasing to God to crush the Son. Now I see both God's ultimate love and God's ultimate Justice in the cross but how could God have both emotions at once. How can He be both angry at humans while also being pleased at the Justice being served?

[@justanotherbaptistjew5659]

Because it was sinful for them to kill Jesus, but God ordained and used it to impute our sins to Him.

[@edge4192]

@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 Simple and to the point. Thanks friend.

[@edge4192]

@Psicólogo Miguel Cisneros Not always friend. I understand the point you're trying to make but if you don't understand penal substitutionary atonement, for example, it makes it hard to understand why Jesus would need to die. That's one simple example and there are many. It's deeper than just face value, that's why we have exegesis and teachers. I'm not an idiot that can't read and I always don't believe there are contradictions in the Bible, therefore deep understanding is needed. Another example would be scripture saying "no thief, adulterer, liar, fornicator, adulterer will enter the kingdom of heaven". Well if I read that at face value we're all doomed but understanding that through accepting the pardon of Christ, God the Father no longer judges us based on our sins but rather sees us as He sees His Son. It's not simply that our sins are washed away, it's that we are imputed the righteousness of Christ. If I were you, I'd try to be more graceful with your responses. Condescension is not going to help a brother or sister.

[@euston2216]

There is no "2nd person of the trinity", only "JESUS...the root AND the offspring of David" (Rev.22:16). Isaiah 53:10 - _"Yet it pleased _*_the LORD_*_ to bruise _*_him_*_ ..."_ -- "the LORD" is the root of David -- "him" is the offspring of David (i.e., the root of David made flesh)

[@justanotherbaptistjew5659]

Yes, Jesus is both God and Man. That doesn’t contradict the fact that we see countless places in the Scriptures where a distinction is made between Father and Son, John 1:1-2, John 8:17-18, John 15:26, and John 17:5, to name a few.

[@euston2216]

@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 Jesus' conclusive revelation about himself - that he is both "the root _and_ the offspring of David" - is not a declaration that he is a "God Man", a "2nd person" of a tri-personal deity. Rather, it's definitive proof that Jesus is _his own_ Father, and _his own_ Son. Applying simple logic to Rev.22:16... 1. One who _succeeds_ David in a genealogy IS THE SON OF one who _precedes_ David in that genealogy. 2. The offspring of David _succeeds_ David. 3. The root of David _precedes_ David. 4. Therefore, the offspring of David IS THE SON OF the root of David. 5. The offspring of David is Jesus (Rev.22:16). 6. The root of David is Jesus (Rev.22:16). 7. Therefore, Jesus IS THE SON OF Jesus; that is, Jesus is _his own_ Father (God the Father), and _his own_ Son (the Son of God). Jesus' Father is not a different person than Jesus, but rather Jesus himself, in a different level of existence. -- Jesus "the Father" is the root of David, the eternal Spirit whom the Bible calls "God" (God is the root of David's "family tree", Lk.3:23-38). -- Jesus "the Son" is the offspring of David (that is, the root of David made flesh), who is that very same Spirit who - without leaving heaven - "came down from heaven" and manifested himself as a genuine human on earth.

[@claudiozanella256]

If you listen to the Jesus' words with an open mind then their meaning is clear: 1. Jesus is the ONLY KING of heaven and He is ONLY with the Father 2. the Father, however, is A SPIRIT - the ONLY ONE - this means that the Father is ACTUALLY MISSING, nobody ever knew Him. 3. accordingly, Jesus sits at the right hand of the POWER (the power is merely a "thing") 4. the Father who is a spirit is called "Holy Spirit" by Jesus.

[@mitchellc4]

Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through The man God raised from the dead Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. - Acts 3 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him. 14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, 15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. Notice Jesus is NOT the God of Abraham 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.

[@Birdbussa]

Jesus is the god Abraham

[@mitchellc4]

@@Birdbussa Hello Clearly not Jesus is the servant of the God of Abraham Acts 3 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified -> his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him. 14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, 15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. Acts 5 30 The God of our ancestors raised up Jesus, whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior that he might give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” Jesus is never the God of Abraham The God of Abraham raised Jesus from the dead

[@eltonron1558]

God is a family, not a trinity. The trinity doctrine disenfranchises all the other holy spirits, immortal, working on behalf of God. Some even have names. In the name of the holy spirit, the holy spirit has no name. Ephesians 3:15

[@warmachine8006]

Ephesians 3:15 is illustrating that God is sovereign over all in that He named all people, all families. This isn't equivocating created beings with God. The overarching theme of Ephesians is how we can grow in holiness and how we are called to be imitators of God, not literally God. Angels and other spirits may work on behalf of God, but they are certainly not God. The only persons referred to as God ( and correctly so) are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God has revealed Himself as Triune throughout the Bible and to equate any others with his divine essence is idolatry.

[@eltonron1558]

@@warmachine8006 In the name of the holy spirit, what is the name of the holy spirit? The holy spirit,(power of God), may work on behalf of God, but is not God, and not a person, since the person doesn't have a name. At Pentecost, and the baptism of Jesus, the holy spirit is correctly identified as an IT. To assume the bible teaches God as triune, means YOU were taught the trinity, not the bible. God is a family, not a trinity. An immortal holy spirit, with a name,(person,) telling Mary about another holy spirit, equals 2 holy spirits. That makes God a quad? Luke 1:35 Gabriel correctly identified the holy spirit to her, as the POWER of the most high. The spirit of God, moving over the earth in Genesis, makes God a pentagon? I walk the street, confident that the POWER OF GOD, dwells within, which is wonderful, and makes sense, while the Trinitarian, walks the street knowing a third person, God/not God, dwells within, which is creepy and crappy. If you knew the source of the doctrine called the trinity, you might reconsider it's heresy to the Godhead, which is Elohim, family. Elevating the holy spirit equal to God, instead of service to God, diminishes the sovereignty of God.

[@warmachine8006]

@@eltonron1558 You are simply mistaken here. All three persons of the Trinity aren't walking around in the world. The Father has never incarnated and thus is not physically in our world. The Son came and when He left, He gave us the Spirit. This was been the doctrine of the church ever since the beginning starting with Jesus instructing baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; letters from Peter and Paul both acknowledge the Trinity, the early church fathers verified the Trinity in the first few centuries through ecumenical councils before canonizing the Bible. Suggesting that the Trinity was a later development is simply false. How could "God rain fire from God in Heaven" upon Sodom and Gomorrah? How can "no one see God and live" and then Moses sees God throughout the Pentateuch? The Trinity has been present throughout the OT and made explicit in the NT. I've never heard of this family nonsense but it sounds like an incredibly recent new trend in theology. I encourage you to look into the early patristic works and the creeds developed in the early councils so you can see the Trinity has been attested to since Christ

[@eltonron1558]

@@warmachine8006 I cited a scripture, clearly saying, God is a family. You need to cite a scripture, saying God, is three PERSONS. In the meantime, chew on this: An immortal holy spirit, with a name, telling Mary, about another holy spirit, equals 2 holy spirits. That holy spirit, told Mary, what the holy spirit is.....the power of the Most high, unless you're willing to admit, the father of Jesus, is the holy spirit, NOT GOD. The holy spirit is not a person, but the power of God, in actions. Fir the holy spirit to be a PERSON, it should have a name, and be a PERSON, throughout the bible. Instead, it's only a person when adressed at certain times, for the sake of grammar. The rest of the time, the power of God is correctly identified, as an IT. Like at the baptism of Jesus, and Pentecost. You have correctly identified the SOURCE of the doctrine, NOT the legitimacy of it. In the meantime, what is the name of the spirit of God, in Genesis? God is a Elohim, family, of which we are to become a part.

[@eltonron1558]

@@warmachine8006 Luke 1:35

[@1godonlyone119]

The so-called "trinity" is a 100% man-made and non-scriptural concept: It does not appear in any of God's revealed scriptures -- not in any book, not in any chapter, not in any verse.

[@helmofgod]

Its sad to see viewpoints long known to be false by Christians resuscitated and taught like this... Surely we can't understand God to have emotions like human beings? "Every best gift, and every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of alteration." (James 1:17)

[@helmofgod]

@The FBI I am indeed a Trinitarian, and I absolutely affirm Christ's divinity; but Christ has two natures, one divine, one human - that's what the Incarnation means. These natures are united in the same person, but remain distinct, not mingled or combined in any way. So, Jesus can suffer in His human nature, without His divine nature experiencing any change whatsoever.

[@helmofgod]

@The FBI Well, I would say those passages must not mean that God is literally experiencing emotions. It seems to me that, because we are emotional, and are obviously accustomed to interacting with other emotional people, it is easy for us to anthropomorphize God, reading emotions into His actions. Possibly, God would even express Himself to us in explicitly emotional terms (especially at an earlier stage of revelation), because it will be easier for us to understand. But the trajectory of Scripture is away from such an anthropomorphized theology, leading to things like the state of the Apostle James I quoted originally. There are similar instances of this with other aspects of God - for instance, when God talks about freeing Israel from Egypt by His "strong right arm," or when He allows Moses to see His "back," are we to understand by that that God has a body? I certainly don't think so; these are images which we use for God, and that God might even use for Himself, because they help us understand who God is and what He does - but not in their literal meaning. I think God's "emotions" in the Old Testament are basically the same thing.

[@TONyjustRoCks]

I highly doubt God is a sociopath. I don't know what Bible you're reading, but mine tells many stories of when God had an emotional response to external stimuli. God is God we are humans. Obviously nobody thinks it's a 1-1 relation. But when God sees Israel disobey, he gets angry. Why wouldn't he? What God do you follow?

[@leonardu6094]

@@TONyjustRoCks He apparently worships a static and unfeeling being who can't relate to his creation.

[@leonardu6094]

Lol your view of Divine impassibility is simply just a doctrine, not necessarily fact. It's simply one position held by some Christians.

[@ndogarakumbare9471]

God is One not three…there’s no such thing as a trinity…stop leading people to hell