Did the Fallout TV Show Just Ruin Fallout Lore?

[@TyrannicalKitty]

I don't think the guys wearing the ranger armor were actual NCR rangers. They simply could've just scavenged the armor after the bomb fell.

[@donovanchau3483]

Yeah the son looks no older than 18-19, no way he’s an NCR ranger

[@logosaeternam5141]

They were lead farmers. The armour was scavenged.

[@danielearl3591]

That armour was never originally NCR ranger armour - it’s a pre-war riot control suit, you can find it in a pre-war veterans supply cache and US army equipment lockers in New Vegas. Presumably the NCR copied/modified/replicated that design for their elite rangers

[@thomaswillard6267]

​@@donovanchau3483Yeah, no kid would ever be indoctrinated, it isn't like the brother was literally part of the remnants, that father couldn't be a former Ranger or anything, I'msurr they are completely unrelated to the NCR. /s In reality seeing young people identify and be radicalized shows us that these ideas are still ongoing rather than being purely pre-war. It is in notable contrast to Vault-Tec where their identity is entirely Pre-War. There are modern Vault inhabitants, but none of them are in on the secret. It's literally the subtext.

[@asimplewizard]

The implications are that after the fall of Shady Sands the NCR mostly fell apart and created a power vacuum filled by the various factions in the wastelands. The govermint scene was played for laughs, but it was really interesting how the small parts of the story explain larger seemingly unconnected parts.

[@AKlover]

It will be interesting to see McLean arrive in New Vegas to find the Courier rather than House.

[@Kevin-nh7jd]

I think House AI is the way to go, but finding the courier would be pretty neat too

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

So Yes Man is Canon?

[@ByrgenworthGraduate]

Hope that never happens... What's the use of roleplaying when your character is going to be canonically different anyway.... Its called RPG "Role playing Game" if they add a canon then whats the point in roleplaying??? They should write the next chapter of new Vegas in a way that can make EVERYONES VERSION of the courier viable rather than just lazily giving a canon The elder scrolls does this way better as non of the events happening after its games contradict whoever your character is in the previous games If your Hero of Kvatch was a Dark brotherhood member non of the games o books after like skyrim or the books by Greg Keyes contradict it.... Fallout doesn't have that Luxury if they introduce and canonize the courier

[@BubbleoniaRising]

@@ByrgenworthGraduate It happened in every game so far (except NV). Do you really believe someone's "I side with the Enclave and sabotage the Capital Wasteland's water supply is still possible after playing Fallout 4?

[@orionriftclan2727]

@@ByrgenworthGraduate Because it is still fun to

[@alsaiduq4363]

Another weird thing is how they didn't mentioned the Boneyard despite being so close to Vault 33. You would think they would at least pass-through The Boneyard because the show takes place in LA. Not to mentiont to New Reno, The hub, Necropolis, etc

[@Special_Agent_Frank_Horrigan]

I think Lucy was more focused on finding her father instead of exploring every location so the gamers can be like OH MY GOD ITS THE PLACE FROM THE GAME. Why would she go to those places that don't matter in her mission.

[@YungBeezer]

the entrance to Vault 33 is above ground. The Master didn't find it when he was looking for Vault Dwellers?

[@AstroNerdBoy]

I got the feeling that the show "moved" Shady Sands to the area of what should be the Boneyard.

[@unlostmaniac8735]

@@YungBeezer he cant just break into a vault, no vaults have been busted into.

[@YungBeezer]

@@unlostmaniac8735 if you take to long to stop the Master he literally breaks into your vault and kidnaps everyone.

[@Alex_FRD]

So why's Shady Sands now in LA instead of Death Valley?

[@neanderthalknight9417]

because he's lying.

[@callum4450]

@@neanderthalknight9417 nope

[@rubengutierrez19]

I mean at the end the Father reaches LV really fast

[@Dorkeydaze]

Because fallout shills… fallout shills never change

[@Cisaaro]

How was shady sands being slightly away from la to being in la ruin the lore? What crucial lore has been broken by the relocation

[@bro6982]

doesnt maximus straight up say “the bombs dropped 12 years ago” to lucy? lucy is confused at first bc obviously the great war was 200+ years ago, but then its revealed maximus was talkin about shady sands. that places the bombs falling ~2284, three years after new vegas

[@xtremejay2000]

New Vegas stans are not good at paying actual attention to things because all of their energy is put towards immediately hating anything that isn't New Vegas.

[@wesleyknox8031]

What year is the show actually set in?

[@xtremejay2000]

@@wesleyknox8031 2296

[@marisadzekute8294]

@@wesleyknox80312296

[@ygorschuma3059]

​@@wesleyknox8031 2296

[@thanatos7361]

shady sands is between vaults 13 and 15 and as far as i know the fallout tv series takes place soley in the L.A boneyard we never see the hub or other cities that appear in fallout 1 and 2

[@genesisr90]

Shady Sands should be well over 100 miles away from LA aka the Boneyard. Moving it that far makes no sense

[@Midnightfr]

@@genesisr90It doesn’t rly matter tho? Same with seeing the other cities, the point is that the NCR is mostly gone, and sure we don’t know why yet but how much you wanna bet that it’ll be explained in the future? Y’all making a big deal outta not seeing a few cities is crazy, this is season one and those other cities have nothing to do with the plot at all. Chances are they don’t exist anymore since the NCR fell, so until we see what exactly happened to the NCR to cause the whole faction to fall, then those cities are unimportant. Also to make it clear I meant the NCR mostly fell in the area around Los Angeles, for all we know there is an active NCR presence in other areas, it make sense for them to pull outta that area after shady sands, they probably knew that what happened there could very well happen again if they stayed. Hence why we only see remnants and not a largely NCR presence in LA

[@MxChloeB42]

"Was Shady Sands; Most folks call it NCR now. New California Republic - pretty impressive name, huh?" - Tandi in Fallout 2 , the fact that people refer to Shady Sands in New Vegas almost 100 years after it was renamed in 2186 was in and of itself a retcon. I'm choosing to believe at some point they renamed the Boneyard to Shady Sands in honor of the NCR, afterall the Boneyard predates Shady Sands, much less the NCR, so them renaming it makes sense, especially for an empire in decline.

[@BolinFoto]

"shady sands is between vaults 13 and 15" Shady sands move around from game to game. Even it's founding date changes from game to game. Every Fallout game have problems with that the lore is all over the place.

[@sushestvobezvolnoe]

​@@MxChloeB42 They didn't rename it. The flashback has obelisk and well from Shady Sands. Also Lucy said she was 6, when Shady Sands was destroyed and that she had 10 years of cousin stuff. The show takes place in 2296, so if the stuff started when she was 15 at least, she is 25 in the show and it puts the nuke in 2278.

[@nobody5674]

Patrolling the comment section almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.

[@justnoob8141]

we could try another, the problem is that the silo in West Verginia is probably empty at this point in time

[@mtndew4746]

​@@justnoob8141West Virginia

[@senseisandals]

You don't want that 😤😤😤

[@wildfire9280]

@@mtndew4746 mountain momma

[@jansenart0]

Not our fault Juicehead's got brain worms.

[@arachnid5557]

My issue wheres the enclave , they had this whole facility lost a scientists and tech and didnt send out teams to come collect the doctor? Why is the enclave back? Why didnt the legion come back to take the area simce no NCR control in the region ?

[@toddharig8142]

iirc the enclave is even more dead at this point then the BoS is? The enclave probably should not have the resources for expeditions like that.

[@TheSkyrimps3]

The enclave is more dead than ncr or bos

[@virgil13stealthman]

fallout 1 2 and nv are no longer lore

[@arachnid5557]

@@toddharig8142 but the scientist is enclave so how do they have the recourses for a research facility literally creating cold fusion and dog experiments, but no guards or military, that doesn't make sense

[@arachnid5557]

@@TheSkyrimps3 clearly shown in the show they have a research facility, so they have resources and are still around

[@chanzzie2235]

I dont agree with the idea that Bethesda hates Fallout New Vegas. But them destroying most of the things they didnt come up with (Shady Sands and New Vegas) Isnt helping.

[@Unknown-ek1ox]

I don't believe it's that petty of a reasoning as some speculate, either. Proof or indicator: Look at how they messed up parts of Starfield, their very own IP. It's just the Beth-way at times...

[@jiffypoo5029]

I don't think Bethseda hates New Vegas, they just don't consider it canon. Todd Howard is a control freak and he had nothing to do with New Vegas.

[@Dylan-kr8ss]

Bethesda didn't write this show. The writer's are canonizing the Mr. House ending. House has no regard for NCR lives, he wouldn't be against the nuking 2 of their states.

[@Dylan-kr8ss]

​@@jiffypoo5029you guys have poor comprehension skills. THE SHOW IS CANON OK? THE SHOW DEPICTED NEW VEGAS. NEW VEGAS IS CANON. Fallout Amazon's writer's are using the lore of FO1, FO2, AND FO:NV. They use the design of 3 and 4, and that's about it.

[@elvis5008]

Funny enough, Chris Avellone wanted the Lonesome Road dlc ending in where Ulysses nukes both The NCR and The Legion to be canon, but Bethesda said no.

[@VemoNotRated]

NCR has 700k people in it And I am supposed to buy that losing their capital of 30k people is supposed to retcon the entire NCR? absolutely stupid

[@mantassimonis415]

700k was the number of NCR citizens during fallout 2 beffore integrating new Reno vault city arroyo redding By the Time of new Vegas it should be well over a million.

[@ATigerShark]

Not to mention that the TV show proves that the courier was being retarded when they told Ulysses that a nuke wouldn't be enough to take out the NCR because it's too big and decentralized.

[@trite4654]

Retconned, no. But it's still stupid. Nuking their capital city would still cripple them in the short term at LEAST. I think you're forgetting that they're surrounded on every side by hostiles who will invade the moment the NCR has a weak moment. While they're figuring out how to fix themselves, they'll lose massive territory on every front. It might be too much for them to even recover from. The nuking of shady sands, while not a retcon, is essentially the end of the new California Republic as the dominant wasteland government. Which is STUPID. Sure, Go ahead. Destroy some of the only civilization left in the whole fucking known west 🙄 because every fallout fan is just clamoring for endless wasteland and tribalism and vaults forever

[@PAllen74]

The bomb broke the camels back. The NCR was overextended, undersupplied and corrupt among other things The show implies the brotherhood took advantage of the chaos, left their bunkers and mopped up the NCR remnants.

[@anelbegic2780]

Well they needed to destroy the lore of New vegas in a clever way where it wouldn't look like outright hatered and wanted a "sympathetic" villian, NCR can easily fit both.

[@InvitalPulse]

The Shady Sands stuff is a little messy, but overall it was a good show.

[@LegoGuy2271]

It has certainly made a particular sect of fallout fans rather rabid. Liked the show for the most part, but if they HAD to nuke shady, they could of at least given us a specific time

[@dipsaucin8504]

biggest problem is the location because shady sands is not in LA/Boneyard

[@grbenway]

I was shocked that is was so good. I thought they were going to make Lucy into a mary sue, but she was a real person with success and failure!!!

[@sheaffer117]

​@@grbenwayshe kind of is a Mary Sue under the standards of the vault. But when she gets out into the real world she realized it's pretty much everything she was told and trained to do is kind of worthless.

[@agentumbra2374]

7/10 for me

[@AresdarkKaOs]

So if Todd didn't create it, nuke it? The brotherhood, who struggled to hold D.C. and Boston simultaneously flew their airship across over 2000 miles of wasteland uncontested, beat the NCR, and now become the defacto power? The NCR, who have power armor, vertibirds, anti-material rifles, thousands of troops, artillery, and logistic lines all through California, just kinda gave up, said 'eh? What does it matter that our seat of power was destroyed and our oldest enemies have returned? Let's just call it good enough.' None of this is to mention how New Vegas got destroyed by deathclaws of all things. I could accept Vegas being damaged by the NCR, worn down by the Legion, and even attempted sackings by the Brotherhood, but not its total destruction considering its martial strength at the hands of Mr. House. It just feels like Todd Howard couldn't retcon New Vegas, so he destroyed it to give his version of the Brotherhood the spotlight yet again, again, again.

[@brandonr8269]

Then don't watch the show. With its success, you won't be missed.

[@OasisLand00]

​@@brandonr8269If you think that Todd is doing a good job with this show by destroying New Vegas, retconning already established lore, nuking Shady Sands and once again giving the brotherhood of steel (his version from Fallout 3 which is not even the real Brotherhood) the main spotlight while also screwing over the NCR because he is too much of a narcissistic brotherhood fan even though the NCR by actual lore has a large amount of resources and troops and weapons and military power and several territories compared to the isolationist, xenophobic techo-fetishist tribe of Power Armor wearing murderous bigoted fanatics who would gladly kill anyone that is either against them, doesn't give them their technology or non-human, then i'm sorry, you're an idiot.

[@OasisLand00]

YOU have read my mind. This show is just Todd's BOS fanboy fan fiction.

[@alexloponte7056]

@@ywer3455 That's the mojave's Ncr

[@TheImapotato]

Yes, although, from a marketing, PR and financial aspect I absolutely see why. Make all lore Bethesda bc FO1 & FO2 fans they lost after Fallout 3, we play Wasteland or Underail type RPGS, they lost FNV fans (their biggest critics) after Fallout 4 so why cater to them? Get the normies who watch their show while scrolling Tik Tok since paying attention is difficult for them. Pull them in with naked cult chants like they did in college & on weekends for stupid causes. Put in sexual fetishes like watersports, vore & incest like their hidden browser history & make elementary school jokes like 'He showed me his butthole'

[@maxberner1886]

I think the big Problem is the complete lack of real NCR Controll, if as you said the Capital of the NCR was moved away from Shady Sands before the Nuke the entire NCR Government, Congress and Military Command would have survived, and the NCR would have lost 35k out ouf over 1 Million People this for me doenst justify that the only NCR Group we see are like some Militias without proper Uniform and Weaponry. The NCR should still have a strong presence in L.A. considering the Boneyard is an Important and Large Settlement as well as the BoS ist seemingly reemerging out of hiding and fighting for controll in California. This would realisticly fully reignite the NCR-BoS War and we would see entire NCR Battalions fight the BoS with Anti-Tank Weapons, NCR Rangers and Regular Infantry as seen in New Vegas not some random Militias were there one old Lady swinging the NCR Flag. I think the Problem is that Bethesdas Vision for Fallout is one of eternal stagnation after the Great War, were Civilization doenst begin again and instead there is an eternal lawless Wasteland which doenst work with the NCR in Place, and of course they want to milk the BoS with all kind of Franchise Products as they are the most recognizable Faction. But i agree that that the Fall of Shady Sands 2277 isnt the nuking and that the Nuke is a different Event. Overall i think realisticly even if Shady Sands would be destroyed there would still be a functioning NCR!

[@hiimharvey4191]

my theory is that with the capital moving, the NCR sort of didn’t care about shady sands, and the group we see is just a offshoot/cult, and that they wrongly consider themselves as official NCR. which would explain their lack of official NCR gear (most of it was nuked into atoms). sort of like the brotherhood outcasts. it makes sense that after the NCR’s overall decline and being stretched thin, they couldn’t coordinate moving hundreds of survivors across the wasteland or they didn’t even bother to try to help them. who know if there were more survivors who made the journey to the new capital

[@hiimharvey4191]

shady sands became an after thought to the NCR with vegas and everything, and the group we see in the show is a cult that has nothing to do with official NCR

[@Weffi76]

Could have been an powerstruggle from with in what broke the NCR at some point, why they left Shady Sands, what mostlikely contribute to the stagnation of the town, or even the total collapse of the town, where it more or less became a Bandit camp, could be a reason why it got nuked in the first place, well we know who did the nuking, but could have been becuse he knew that one day they will attack the Vault.

[@BolinFoto]

Lets say that the NCR would stay intact, how long before they have civilized the entire of North America? Then what, what kind of Fallout games would we have then? No it was a mistake to create the NCR, this is also why the Brotherhood of Steel alway have to fail, because if they didn't then.... Civilization, I'll stay right here....

[@remyspierings9848]

Although you have a valid point, please do remember that this tv-show probably had a fairly limited budget. That final BoS vs NCR skirmish likely strained the budget a lot. I'm not even sure they had more than one suit of power armor for the show. I assume season 2 will get a larger budget, but still, don't expect any large scale battles.

[@chase55431]

You keep saying that the NCR is still around and then referring to people as remnant groups. If their remnants then it's not around anymore.

[@Starsteam1]

Exactly, by definition a remnant can't be a part of the same organisation.

[@Slenderslayer351]

The NCR definitely still exist, but their control over the area has significantly dwindled, even before Shady Sands was nuked. Their focus on the Mojave Wasteland would've resulted in their decline hence how it said the date 2277 (Same year as the First Battle of Hoover Dam)

[@SpitFir3Tornado]

Honestly I would be way more upset if the NCR is still around come season 2. I'm fine accepting they're going in a different direction and changing stuff even if it's kind of poorly explained. But the show makes no sense if the NCR is still around. How would they go an entire season never mentioning the greatest nation since the great war which would be presumably not that far away even if this area is independent after the bomb? Why would the NCR not still be in control of this area if it's still around? These would have been events almost everyone we see has lived through, and no one mentions what's going on with them even in passing reference? Trade with the NCR would still be massive, I would expect the NCR troops to be present here just like the Brotherhood is or like the NCR was in the Mojave? The NCR still being around just doesn't make sense from what they have shown and moreso from what hasn't been shown.

[@Seer_Of_The_Woodlands]

I assume that the main government or its successor has retreated to the inner parts of its territories and on the outside there are its remnants that did not retreat or members of the old regime and the new split has retreated tactically.

[@itsahostiletakeover]

The very definition of the word "remnant" implies part of something is still PRESENT in some shape or form.

[@arandomgamer1802]

Update on Fallout New London. I saw in an article that the new mod will be DELAYED until they can patch it into the new framework. They want everyone to be able to use it and some don't know how to go back to previous versions or hold off on updating so they'll delay until further notice.

[@BeeberIsBack]

Anyone with any interest in the mod would already be aware of this news, Its also something they are happy about so they dont have to release a jury-rigged widescreen patch and can use the one that will be coming in the new patch

[@deadshot9946]

It’s also pc only so Xbox and PlayStation will not be able to experience.

[@GrievousReborn]

​@@deadshot9946I already guessed that was going to be the case

[@CaptainBuggyTheClown]

Seriously? Screw the new fallout 4 update I wanted to play the mod...

[@quagmoe7879]

So now we all suffer more wait because of a few idiots. Makes sense.

[@unibu1534]

Here is a counterargument though, why wasn't the nuke dated on the board? While it's most likely not an intentional retcon, it's at the very least a writing error or very badly presented piece of information.

[@hellacoorinna9995]

^ This guy gets it.

[@sunneyt]

Yeah, best thing they can do is go in the first ep, show someone going in the Board, saying like "wow this is wrong" and changing the date. Everyone happy.

[@Ryoga100]

Fall of shady sands...arrow point instead of straight line to a BIG MUSHROOM CLOUD basically saying this is what happened. Alot of people in that vault were former residents after all

[@shaeisgae8952]

He said it in the middle of the video, they probably wanted to keep the date vague so they have flexibility with the lore as they write the second season, and they messed up by making it kinda look like the last two parts were the same thing

[@hellacoorinna9995]

@@shaeisgae8952 True, but people can't retroactivley go "See! See! We were right all along!" Not with any degree of credability. Because, right now the signs point to "Fall of" being synonymous with getting nuked. And no ammount of "Ah ha, but what about The Fall of Rome!" gotcha. Which, even then, you'd have specific " From X to Y" dates. And The sacking of Rome, would start on a specific day (even thoughbthe sacking might take many days, weeks or months to complete). It's why, "The Fall of Reach" despite taking some time, one generally thinks "When Reach was abandoned and glassed" to be when it "fell". Just like going "So why does nobody mention Arthur Morgan, who was only created well after RDR1, for RDR2 which is a prequel‽"

[@Andonios88]

“War never changes” does not mean it is a good idea to just constantly have the setting in a state of low level wasteland society. Of course having more complex cultures and government structures is much harder to write than the former.

[@57harrierstrikes]

Exactly and if you progress it too far it loses the appeal of being a post-apocalyptic wasteland. I'd rather everything stay relatively disheveled than a rebuild take place, the latter is less interesting.

[@InvictusByz]

Then why are franchises with complex cultures and government structures so much more common? An anarchic wasteland isn't easier to write, especially since the series *did* contain politics and intrigue.

[@seangunnells9101]

That’s my problem with Bethesda’s fallout on the east coast and not on the west coast is that it’s perpetual anarchy

[@eyakimicki]

This is what made the later seasons of Walking Dead so shitty. I do not want to watch a normal civilized place that happens to be in a wasteland

[@ammo7]

The show is looking to use the franchise to appeal to a larger audience, so starting with a still apocalyptic mess makes sense. You don't make a tv adaptation of a show about rebuilding the world after the nukes dropped and start with an established government

[@professionalgamer5407]

I feel as though the NCR remnants we see at the end of the show are more of a splinter cell of a larger remaining faction. It seems like they consist of those perhaps unwilling to give up on Shady Sands, with their leader willing to go to some very morally questionable decisions (such as working with raiders) to achieve their somewhat un-realistic goals. It's quite possible there's a much bigger NCR presence regrouping somewhere like The Hub.

[@dagothur2666]

Yea most likely up north where the rest of the major cities in the NCR. The new capital is most likely either The Hub, Arroyo, Vault City, New Reno, or possibly San Francisco.

[@orionriftclan2727]

Probably San Francisco, it is up north, it is on the coast and is deep in NCR territory

[@AusSP]

Yeah, the problem with that is the NCR military doesn't appear anywhere in their own territory, and are never mentioned to exist, beyond some rag-tag group of nobodies.

[@deletedaccount175]

No they nuked Shady and emptied New Vegas to spite people like me. They haven't written a good game since Oblivion, Fallout 3 was not great hence why nobody deep dives the lore. Skyrim had almost nothing in it besides repetitive dungeons, repetitive dragon fights and the occasional main quest with an interesting character. Again, nobody is deep diving that lore since it's release, because most of it is non-existent or just straight up completely boring. The copium from all of you is so hard, they did this to spite people. No more, no less. This same group of people who signed off on this show, also signed off on giving me a plastic bag and plastic bottle, in place of the actual ones I ordered and paid for. The very same who said 16x the detail and it just works, before releasing Fallout 76 to the public at full AAA price... Stop copium huffing and accept reality. They weren't catering to Fallout fans, they were catering to TV consumers, nothing more. All they cared about was money, same as always. If Bethesda had released Starfield, we would be looking at liquification right now. Microsoft saved them at great cost to themselves, and either they need F5 or TES6 to come out in the next 18 months, or they don't have a leg to stand on at the coming board meetings. Microsoft don't care about us, even less than Bethesda the greed merchants do. Stop trusting them, they've run the IP into the ground, modders have saved it. The game is unplayable because of crashes to this day, it's taken them 5 years to make a patch to fix the performance issues with one of the biggest development teams in the entire industry. Stop trusting them, it feels so good to be in reality over here, trust me.

[@oswinosgood7870]

yeah i feel like the fall of shady is actually Maldaver taking over, NCR wasted a ton of resources and man power trying to get hoover dam and then theres this woman that just knows how to get them infinite power? that surly would cause people to get mad. maybe they tossed out NCR politicians for Maldaver to be their new NCR leader and theyre more of a unofficial NCR group than the main faction? not sure, but Maldaver showing up at shady 2277 and then a while later its nuked doesnt seem to be a coincidence to me

[@Sarcastican_]

10:19 Only problem with that, is that the prisoners kept at Vault 33 from the raid do not seem at all like ex-NCR soldiers, they seem entirely like your average fiends. It's possible Maldaver was desperate for troops and hired just about anyone to raid Vault 33. It's possible the NCR had some sort of internal conflict, or a civil war with the people. In Fallout: New Vegas we can clearly see most people don't like the NCR occupation nor their taxes, maybe this got worse after Hoover Dam.

[@Slenderslayer351]

That's what I was thinking. The Mojave Campaign severely affected the NCR and it also suggests that the NCR weren't successful in taking Hoover Dam.

[@songsayswhat]

Yeah. Made me wonder if they took in some raiders who agreed to abide by the rules. You see what looks like actual NCR soldiers in the last battle as well as unarmored people. Begs the question why she chose to take raiders to the vault. Maybe she either 1) wanted to leave the observatory in more capable (NCR) hands or 2) didn't trust NCR soldiers to be down with attacking vault dwellers.

[@captainhook5513]

It was literally predicted in New Vegas that during the time the show takes place the NCR will be facing a CRIPPLING FAMINE.

[@kwizzeh]

New Vegas also makes it abundantly clear that NCR's glory days are behind her after the first battle of Hoover Dam, supply routes being disrupted, it's military being spread to thin and fears of famine on the horizon.

[@parallel-knight]

Yeah some sort of civil War or mass attack, be that by raiders, super mutants or whatever would force them to move the capital. Then the bomb goes off. Also maybe they move the capital in sorta secret. So there’s the birth place shady sands that a lot of people still hold in their hearts as the capital. But the president and all acting member of government have moves else where.

[@leggonarm9835]

I could forgive the destruction of Shady Sands. But the destruction of New Vegas as well? Next, you'll tell me the NCR is completely gone. Gotta love Bethesda just destroying all of Fallout they didn't create, so petty.

[@mikewazowski7024]

Yup, this video IS NOT convincing to me i’m afraid.

[@kiramacarov]

New Vegas wasn't destroyed, it is literally in the show.

[@Leopard-2A6..]

​@@kiramacarov no outer vegas no overpass no monorail no free side no mccaran

[@thedon7251]

I picture Todd Howard with Amazon reading the changes and says "it just works"

[@Mirthful_Midori]

Assuming anyone asked Todd about lore changes, he would've okayed it without missing a beat. The same thing happened when Emil changed something(I don't remember what) with the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion. He asked Todd, but Todd didn't care. Nobody at Bethesda cares about lore or continuity.

[@RandomPerson-nd2ey]

​@Mirthful_Midori yeah, at best they follow general guidelines. To be fair though, there's a *lot* of various details. I'm not excusing them failing to keep them consistent. I'm just saying that I can understand the frustration that would likely result from trying to keep everything right all the time and the temptation to just say "Screw it! It's close enough!" Oh, or they could misremember details while being completely certain that they got it right. Especially since they're working on so many other details to make the game and all the features work right. I'd love see a final product after all of the lore had been dug through with a fine tooth comb to insure it was all accurate. Like a total remastering of the series from the beginning.

[@Yellowjack17]

Hopefully, the following seasons will have "16 times" the episodes!

[@juser-abuser]

As a black and homosexual transgender African American muslim. Im offended by lack of diversity in this show.

[@captainmurphy4948]

@@Mirthful_Midori Only thing I can think of that's significantly different is the worship of Sithis, which isn't commented on in Morrowind iirc, and the Night Mother being the leader of the Morrowind chapter of the Dark Brotherhood and is a human. You kill her either by just running across her in the Daedric ruin she's in or if you join the Morag Tong they send you after her.

[@Alex_FRD]

In history, we don't use the term "fall" to describe the *start* of something collapsing, the word for that is "decline". Rome *fell* in 476, it's *decline* began around 400. This particular retcon could be fixed if they had written "decline" instead.

[@jetri_co]

but the other way around, if it was nukes, they could've written "descruction of shady sands" there's alot more fitting words to describe getting nuked than "fall"

[@golgothaserog]

Seconded. When you utter the words "The Fall of Pearl Harbor" nobody thinks about the years of aggression and provocation between The US and Japan starting in 1937, like the attack on the USS Panay, the Allison Incident or the Nanking Massacre. No, every single person thinks of December 7th 1941 and the Destruction of Pearl Harbor. "We don't actually talk about the moment of something we talk about the decades that preceeded that moment" seems like copium to me.

[@ez-bakeoven6797]

No? Falls can take a long time and still be called a fall. The slow decline of Rome is called the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, the alternative "Fall of Rome," can additionally be used to describe that decline. Its not describing the fall of the City of Rome itself, because Rome got _sacked_ during the Fall of Western Roman Empire, and wasn't really destroyed, unlike the power of the Roman government and Empire. "Decline" and "Fall" are relatively interchangeable when it comes to dealing with the events pre total destruction. The Fall of Shady Sands most likely began in 2277, when the NCR began its intervention in the Mojave. Much like how the Fall of the Western Roman Empire truly began in 382 after they failed to repel the invading Gothic peoples. Think of it like this: When a person jumps off of a building, the whole thing is described as a fall. Not the moment when they get off the roof, not the in between, and certainly not the impact. It's more or less the same with nations and cities. Rome as a city may have fallen in one day, but Rome as a nation had been falling long before that. Pinning the fall of something as large as the Roman Empire to one day is not only factually in accurate, it downplays the importance of the events that lead up to it, and actually does a disservice to not only Roman history, but history itself.

[@callumcc8897]

@@ez-bakeoven6797I’m sorry but are you a historian or just another gen z loud mouth thinking the world revolves around them?

[@kagenlim5271]

​@@jetri_co Im honestly convinced the fallout tv show devs dont know how to english

[@CalobAdamsInfamous913]

I just want to know where is the NCR??? The have LA and California on LOCK. They had very little presence on the tv series

[@Brother_Rony]

The next game is taking place in LA, Bethesda is just removing the ncr or severely depowering them as they dont wanna deal with a functional state in a fallout game. Thats where they are gone

[@porcin3proph3t4]

@@Brother_Rony They wanted the show to stay away from where the next game takes place. Its not gonna be in LA

[@littlebigqualityproduction9756]

I think the people at the observatory are definitely ncr they wave the flag in the fight with the brotherhood

[@th3thatguy631]

Personally I think they began to crumble and simply don't have a bunch of presence in California itself but may have some presence in Colorado, Oregon, Mexico, or Washingston state

[@orionriftclan2727]

There is a very good chance that the Southern Territories of the NCR might have fallen to the waste after shady sands shook up the NCR, I personally think that the North is still strong NCR territory but they had to let the south basically fall or leave inorder to keep stability in the Northern Territories

[@Coconut-219]

"Fallout was always badly written" "You're just stupid" "Stop thinking about it its just a videogame"

[@UploadsfortheSoul]

So unfortunate to have such a great IP ruined by incompetent writers …

[@GojoGunning]

@@UploadsfortheSoulget a job?

[@lv1543]

@@GojoGunning enjoy your slop

[@GojoGunning]

@@lv1543 ironic

[@lv1543]

@@GojoGunning shill account

[@nighthawktapsi]

Has anyone noticed half of new vegas is missing in the show? No sharecropper farms, no gun runners, no broken down highway. A lot and I mean a lot of the surrounding buildings and landmarks.

[@steve-yw8vc]

Yep, they pretty much reduced New Vegas to a fallout 4 settlement in the tv series. No monorail, no Freeside, no camp McCarren, they even forgot about the massive fort that the Followers stayed in. It's a lot more than half that went missing.

[@Dan-zc3ou]

Shh, don't user logic with Todd Howard bootlickers, they'll just call you a rabid fans and drown you in replies

[@devinb7805]

Well it wasn’t taken place in Nevada…it was in L.A. California…new Vegas was shown for 10 seconds.

[@dredayvon2724]

The show stated numerous times they’re in California. Ofc you’re not going to see a ton of new Vegas stuff

[@Nanocon1]

New Atlantic City.

[@TomBombadil89]

One thing I don't get about the show is all those Vault Tec people being frozen in Vault 31 when Vault 111 was experimenting with people being frozen for long periods of time. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like an oversight.

[@KiatnissNZ]

Considering all the overseers have been vault 31 it's possible they unfreeze them periodically, maybe let them live in 32 or 33 for a while, and then take them back in the triennial trade

[@TomBombadil89]

@@KiatnissNZ that's definitely possible. I don't think we know exactly how many people are in there either, the math could work. Hopefully they address it in season 2

[@nikko7212]

tbf, vault 111 was more of an experiment on the actual people who bought the vaults, while 31(and 32, 33) was an experiment between the old world people from vault 33 controlling 31 and 32

[@danielwest6095]

Vault 111 froze it's inhabitants to see how pre war people would react to conditions centuries later. Vault 31 froze large sections of Vault tec management to act as future overseers for 32 and 33. Very different experiments.

[@JohnDoe-xt3kf]

Well it's just illogical The show writers simply didn't consider this, they retconned everything about Vault-Tec in the show so don't expect consistency

[@grijnskat]

"What benefit would retconning bring the writers?" Ask "Star Trek" Picard, Discovery and Strange New Worlds writers. Ask Disney "Star Wars" writers. Ask the writers of the Witcher TV show. Ask... yourself if this is so unprecedented as you try to imply. And no, not the battle between the BOS and the "NCR remnants" is, what gives the impression of the fall of the NCR. It is the non-presence of the NCR in the very region where they were strongest.

[@maxberner1886]

True

[@secretagentcat]

fallout babies go WAH WAH WAH. accept that the script is being changed or stop consuming the media. we still got something good and all u guys do is complain. grow up, make ur own dang game

[@420_blaise_it6]

@@secretagentcatyour a dumbass

[@57harrierstrikes]

@@secretagentcat If fans didn't keep stories consistent, the stories would lose all meaning. It's objectively dumb and pointing out that people can choose to not partake doesn't change that.

[@fikretdemir4818]

They aren't ruining your hobbies for profits but warped morals.

[@Jumpman_5000]

I saw an interview with one of the show runners and he mentions something along the lines of “we made the Gulpers bigger than they were in New Vegas but we’re staying pretty accurate to the game” … There are no Gulpers in New Vegas… These guys don’t know the lore as well as they think they do… I genuinely believe they mistakenly made choices about the lore unknowingly.

[@liaratsoni8556]

They have no idea what they are doing. It’s just a fallout themed post-apocalypse show

[@Capsyy]

@@liaratsoni8556did you even watch it though? He probably confused gulpers with geckos, they look similar, too, after all

[@Anomsuth]

Gulpers are from a Fallout 4 Add on called Far Harbor, The Island is one area you can find them.

[@MarioMario-uy2my]

Speaking of animal there are barely any mutated animals. Just radroaches, 1 yao guai, and the gulper, where are they?

[@MarioMario-uy2my]

There should be a bunch of rad scorpions

[@Missingno0479]

My biggest gripe is why was Sinclair at the executive meeting. Sinclair was not an investor and was simply a consumer buying Big MT technology. Big MT was a scientific research facility contracted by the military to use new experimental technology in warfare. Due to Sinclair's connections with big figures in the entertainment industry he was able to land an agreement to purchase Big MT technology. Sinclair was a VICTIM of their experiments. Big MT knowingly released "the cloud" on the Sierra Madre casino and with Sinclair completely unaware of it being their creation went back to big MT asking for a solution. They then supplied him with another experiment the prototype hazmat suit. Sinclair shouldn't be at that executive meeting and I honestly can't think of a way how they can explain it without retconning something.

[@orionfettes5501]

Well he was probably thier because he was considering buying tech form other sources for the madray and it just never went through

[@Missingno0479]

@@orionfettes5501 why go to a vault tec meeting discussing the future projections of the company if you're only there to try to land some contracting deal ? It doesn't make sense and with how the majority of the meeting laughed at him during house joke I really doubt he was there an a relations mission

[@zacharyreed5318]

he was there because he was rich and powerful before the bombs. i doubt there is any other reason than 'capitalism bad' with the BS they pulled with vault-tec and that line that went something like 'stupid people call smart people communists'

[@UNSCPILOT]

Sinclair absolutely makes sense, he's a talker, a business man, the team at Big MT are likely not interested in "social calls" of any kind that might slow their feverish research pace, sending their biggest customer/partner as a representative makes some sense, I can just imagine any of them vibrating in their seat appalled how much time is being wasted that could be spent on Science!

[@BolinFoto]

That is your gripe? The fact that in ALL the games no one knew who fired first. Aparantly it was Vault-Tec... not Big MT or the Enclave or the chinese, it was Vault-Tec... Everyone is up over their ears about Shady Sands location but not the fact that Vault-Tec started the war :P

[@Bodacious-T]

Well how do you explain the Brotherhood of steel rising to be so powerful? In New Vegas, weren’t they reduced to outcast and a small group in hidden valley after their war with the NCR?

[@Thesquareandweird]

the ones from the airship are likely from the commonwealth/DC

[@jefftharakan1457]

What the above comment said. The Brotherhood has other chapters and they could move in to take the place of the lost ones

[@IForgotMyUsername5000]

power vaccum after shady sands got nuked

[@BenDover_Jr]

Powerful? They clearly state that the brotherhood (at least this one chapter) is pretty much in shambles and the leadership is not any better, just look at the soldiers, all looking like walking bone bags for what is supposed to be a major military force. That's why the elder is basically looking to start from the ground up with maximus after finding the cold fusion reactor.

[@kims4149]

​@@IForgotMyUsername5000Even then the NCR still have huge strongholds like New Reno and the Hub. They should've been way more present and clearly not let a strong Brotherhood presence that close to their territory. They are still at war.

[@phasmidjelly1429]

I think you're ignoring that Bethesda's vision of Fallout differs from the vision presented in Fallout New Vegas. Bethesda doesn't seem interested in nations, empires, and politics. It seems like they're resetting the West Coast to being a wasteland with small tribes. Even New Vegas in the last scene looked like an abandoned ruin without any working lights.

[@Tabrazt]

THIS! Everyone is misinterpreting the argument, when we say Todd Howard hates Fallout New Vegas, we mean this is what he hates. He dislikes the idea of a wasteland where there is thriving well established factions who could have laws or territory in their control, like what we saw with the NCR and the Legion. Instead people are saying “oh Todd likes new Vegas, he had sunset sarsaparilla in an episode!” That’s not what we mean.

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

@@Tabrazt Or, perhaps, the showrunners are going off the idea that the NCR and House/The Courier had a war in New Vegas that utterly destroyed it? It's not like the NCR was doing well by the time of New Vegas.

[@alexandreutiyama547]

@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 But the Enclave that was nuked into oblivion twice by now, is alive and kicking with everyone casually mentioning their existance. No, Bethesda clearly cherrypicks factions that are isolationists and don't really drive the restoration of civillization foward, they want to keep the Wasteland empty and barren for that post-apocalypse trope. Now they even made Vault-tec into a Marvel villain organization that will make sure to keep the wasteland the Bethesda way. For example, in Fallout 4 there was only one faction that wanted to make progress to quickstart civillization in the region again, and it was the Minutemen, the most barebones and boring faction in the game.

[@mr.m6504]

Exactly,all the consoomers shouting from the top of their lungs *"NEW VEGAS IS STILL CANON!!! TODD HOWARD LOVES NEW VEGAS!!"* fail to realize that the events in FNV are now irrelevant (final scene showing New Vegas in ruins) and contradictory (Shaddy Sands nuked or "falling" in 2077 and not a single NPC mentioning that ingame).

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

@@alexandreutiyama547 The Enclave are the remains of the US Government, of course they're going to be able to rebound from being nuked twice. The US is a massive country full of various military installations. Nations fall and fail to live up to their dreams. Nothing lasts forever. Vault-Tec were NEVER good people. Even as far back as Fallout 1, they were up to no good. While the Minutemen were the most barebones, it could be said that the Minutemen are that way because of what they're meant to be.

[@diggiedogg18]

The real question is why didn't Hank recognize that moldaver wasn't a member of vault 31 when they came to the door of vault 33. If they remember who was a vault tech employee from the before

[@rogue6685]

Everyone just seems to forget stuff for the plot brotherhood is the best for it they just forget about the other rookie and don't question or discipline the guy for giving the wrong head

[@AJD_77]

In episode 1, Moldaver does not come from vault 31 she and her raiders come from vault 32. Moldaver was never a vault-tec employee hence why Hank would never recognise her during the first episode.

[@calvinjohnson6242]

@@AJD_77He did recognize her, but only after the attack. Before that point, he had no reason to believe anything was wrong, and clearly didn’t look at her too closely. That’s a very human error. And we have no reason to assume Hank is incapable of a mistake like this.

[@VemoNotRated]

@@calvinjohnson6242 Not to mention its been like 20 years at least and a nuclear war later so he probably forgot people long ago

[@sharpe52312]

They said the overseer had recently died, so it’s plausible that they elected a new one before they couldn’t insert a new 31 to become overseer

[@tedrow70]

It’s 34k out of about a million people in population. Likely the ncr is still around in other areas, having only seemingly had one area nuked and losing a small percentage of population

[@orionriftclan2727]

Probably at the very least they are just the North, basically the NCR is split in half

[@baneofbanes]

There literally no evidence for that.

[@orionriftclan2727]

@@baneofbanes On the Wiki it says that in 2241 (40 years before Vegas and the bombing of Shady Sands), that the population was above ~700,000, given a good population growth well over a million people is about right

[@baneofbanes]

@@orionriftclan2727 yah that’s not what I’m talking about. The show makes no reference to the NCR surviving dude. And as they the doves said the show wasn’t made with fans in mind, it was made for people with no prior knowledge of the setting.

[@Tabrazt]

Yeah but it’s the complete lack of NCR presences that irks me. Southern California is the heart labd of the NCR and there’s no NCR?

[@jacobyboyer3681]

One of the characters in Vault 4 (Birdie) gives us the best guide for the geography. She mentions that she was THREE days away from Shady Sands with her mother on their way to Filly when they felt the heat from the bomb. This gives us a distance of at least three days walk, and low and behold the rough distance to walk from Santa Monica to outside of Lone Pine where most people put Shady sands is.... Three days. So Filly is still near the Boneyard but for one reason or another we didn't go into the Boneyard we just went to Filly. I would love to see what has become of Boneyard and The Hub but I'm alright with waiting. Honestly if the NCR is still alive to the North I think they likely set up in Vault City or San Fran.

[@AusSP]

No, that's not accurate. When you're talking about travel like Birdie, you mean the time you take. When you look at Google Maps, you see something that ignores stamina. Basically, Google Maps says the time is 77 hours walk, non-stop. A real human person would have a hard time walking for 12 hours a day, so that's closer to a week or more.

[@jacobyboyer3681]

@@AusSP You're right there. I will say that if you consider how much time Lucy spends walking you get some more lee way. Lucy walks inland for a day, sleeps then the next day has the encounter with the half naked guy. He's just on the other side of hill from Filly so she probably spends like an hour or two walking to get there. Four days walking at 3mph for 10-12 hours means you could get 130-140ish miles from Santa Monica in that time. That puts you at a day's walk away from Lone Pine if you're walking in a line. If you're following roads (which they may have done) you'd need a second day. Point being that 5 or 6 days to get from Santa Monica to Lone Pine on foot while stretching the visual language a bit does at least track better with what we see and know about the Fallout Geography than the supposition that they moved Shady Sands to the Boneyard. The real question if you want to ask about the Boneyard is where is it. Santa Monica and the Observatory are on the south and north sides of where the Boneyard would have been and we see no proof of it existing. Nor does it match with the location of the crater in the show's Shady Sands. So what happened to a massive city.

[@abnnizzy]

You're all thinking too hard about this. Bethesda probably forgot that Boneyard and The Hub even exists. They're destroying every piece of lore Black Isle made.

[@jacobyboyer3681]

@abnnizzy I doubt Bethesda who brought the Hubologists into Fo4 and asked Obsidian to remove mention of a destroyed San Fran just "forgot" about The Hub and Boneyard. It's possible that the geography has been shifted a bit (something Fallout 2 did to Fallout 1 as well). I think its more of a problem that you and others would rather jump to an extreme like "THEYRE DESTROYING IT" than take a breath and wait to see.

[@abnnizzy]

@@jacobyboyer3681 I mean, it was right there in the fucking show. Shady Sands destroyed in 2277. New Vegas takes place in 2281. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

[@x570Belmont]

Funny how much copium everyone is huffing trying to explain away this, when the simplest answer is usually the correct one. They just messed up the date, they didn't think. That's all. Change it to 2284 and everything works fine. Lucy's age in the show was never given so if you put it at 2284, with the flashback as her as a kid that looks to be 9-10 years old, by 2296 when the show takes place she'd be 22. It works fine. They just goofed a date, that's it. It's a BIG goof, sure, but it's still just a goof. As for completely breaking the NCR in general, yeah, that's irritating. That's the one thing that made me actually angry at the show. It felt stupid and unnecessary.

[@Estelle2007]

@x570Belmont Thank you! Although I don't approve of arbitrary slang change terms like "copium" I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking the obvious.

[@Stefantius]

How about The Ghoul taking down an entire group of heavily armored knights of the brotherhood when he could barely handle a rookie in the like second episode? Thats my biggest gripe with the show, not timelines

[@Stefantius]

​@@Estelle2007Can you remind me of who cares about your approval? What a stupid thing to say, no wonder he never replied to you

[@Estelle2007]

@@Stefantius I just wanted to make it clear I'm not supporting arbitrary newspeak for "Funny how much of a big deal everyone is making" or easily influenced by current slang trends. He can say whatever he likes for now regardless of my approval.

[@zebwilliams8945]

Bethesda has been doing whatever they feel like with Obsidian's work on Fallout.

[@ght_1]

Somehow the enclave returned

[@gardendado1999]

Lore-wise the Enclave is not extinct, in a sense that there isn't a central executive command, however there is the "Enclave Hight Command" mentioned in FO3 Broken Steel, apparently it is in Chicago

[@MaddogJones]

Hear me out, I think the "Raider" that stormed vault 33 were in fact raiders and NOT NCR troops or members. Moldaver hired a group of raiders to help kidnap the Overseer Hank. That's how I rationalized the difference between "Raiders" that raided the vault and the final battle between the "NCR" and the Brotherhood of Steel.

[@morgan79737]

I just took it that there's multiple offshoot factions of the NCR and Moldaver is welcoming to all of them.

[@jacoviewright1260]

Loved the show. But, how did nobody pick up that the Raiders were irradiated until post coitus. Did they turn their geiger counters off? lol

[@Tyson-i7r]

​@@jacoviewright1260yes they most likely did probably because no one would think that anything radioactive would get inside the vault you know vault dwellers are not that smart except for the ones in 76 I think those are the only smart Vault dwellers or at least the smart ones that are still alive

[@jacoviewright1260]

@user-qg4zb6jt9s I realized after commenting. They are wearing Vault suits, so the rads could have been masked.

[@Tyson-i7r]

@@jacoviewright1260 bro tried mentats for the first time☠️

[@NinethieMusic]

I feel like I remember it being mentioned many times that the barons are taking over the Hub. It could be that Shady Sands began to fall as the backbone of the NCR and the hub began to rise.

[@jonmichael6746]

Do we *KNOW* that the NCR won the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam? If they had lost, wouldnt that be good reason for the start of the Fall of the NCR? The real thing that confused me about the Fallout TV show was Cooper having to take Chems to hold of going feral. Was this ever in any lore? Did I miss this somehow?

[@kyleellis1825]

Seems more about managing radiation levels.

[@abnnizzy]

@@kyleellis1825 More chems, more radiation. More radiation, more chance of going Feral. Thats how the whole Ghoul thing works since Fallout 1. In New Vegas there is a whole quest about this. But in the show the chems stop the Feral thing from starting somehow? But thats just one thing in a list of dozens of retcons Bethesda did. They must despise Fallout.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@abnnizzy Yeah, so I assumed the ghouls needed rad away to stay sane.

[@Midnightfr]

@@abnnizzyYou do realize the “chems” the ghoul uses in the show to stay sane is probably radaway right? So it fits right into canon

[@abnnizzy]

@@Midnightfr it's not rad away. Rad away is one of the only chem that was truly represented in the show besides Jet . Rad Away comes in an IV pack, the bottles the ghoul consumes clearly shows a radioactive and poisonous label.

[@flubber11usa7]

Bethesda absolutely intended Shady Sands to be destroyed in 77. Rose supposedly died in that year, and Hank covers it up by saying she died in the "Plague of 2277" that ravaged Vault 33. In reality, we know it was the nuking of Shady Sands that killed / ghoulified Rose. So why else would they claim the plague was in 2277, other than to cover up the nuking at that time? This is a cope argument saying that this show is lore accurate, and it's very disappointing seeing so many people blindly go along with Bethesda's continual disrespect for the franchise.

[@loganblevenson]

rose left with lucy and norm in 77' to seek refuge away from the vault, hence why lucy has a flashback of rose and moldaver in shady sands. it's assumed rose lived outside the vault for at least a few years, and only then were lucy and norm taken away from her by hank. the cover-up is to explain why their mother is gone, not how she died, because she refused to come back to the vault and lived in shady sands for many years, up until when hank decided to nuke the city (post 2281). i don't understand how a chalkboard written by a school teacher (who likely wasn't even in shady sands when the bombs dropped) is being used as evidence that the bombs dropped in 2277. we have a chronology that makes sense, and the plague of 77' isn't contradictory in any way.

[@SufficingPit]

​@@loganblevenson I know your comment is 5 months old... but really...? What fucking amazing amount of mental gymnastics to try justifying poor writing when it was blatantly obvious the writers meant 2277 as the nuke date. Why would Rose never try to get back in to get her kids back for 4 entire years? Her pipboy still worked considering that is how Moldaver gets in (to indiscriminately murder a bunch of innocent vault dwellers, two of which being Rose's kids who could have easily died which is a weird thing to put your dead friend's kids in harm's way let alone a bunch of other innocent people, but that is a whole other can of worms.) Disregarding that, why did he wait 4 years to nuke the city? He went to the surface in 2277 (just so happens to be the chalk board date, but totally unrelated to the *fall* of shady sands, we swear) got his kids back, waited 4 years, then went back up and said actually ima fuckin nuke this place. Why?! Also, the whole notion of the chalkboard being made by an unreliable narrator is just dumb... these are supposed survivors from Shady Sands and do a whole weird cult thing specifically around its destruction (also super fucking weird for a number of reason) so why would they get one of the most important dates to them wrong? And very wrong, like you'd think they know what fucking year it currently was. It is so nonsensical to assume the chalkboard writer didn't know, and even more absurd to make up cope that they weren't in/around Shady Sands to know it's exact nuke date and just randomly decided 2277? If you have to make up headcannon to justify major events, there is something wrong... there is zero indication of any of this in the show, which from a writing perspective if you were to purposely include something like a unreliable narrator, you'd actually fucking include clues showing so. Atop of all that, the scene framing and build up also supports the writers intent of 2277 being the nuke date, look at how the shot is framed as it moves through the timeline and stops with the final entry being the fall of Shady Sands next to a nuclear explosion illustration and music sting, combine that with the previous episode of setup of the Shady Sands nuke crater, it is suppose to be a confirmation of shady sands being nuked. Then you have the whole cult scene after based on the fact shady sands got blown up since now the viewer 'knows' that shady sands was nuked in a very spelled out way just in case they weren't paying attention before. To further support it, you have the end credit scene with he starting focus of the book in a destroyed school showing the last checkout date being 2276 and very mysteriously stopping after...

[@Stubbs-ti1to]

It's not just the blackboard though. In episode 4 of the show while the Ghoul is cannibalizing the other ghoul Lucy talks about her mom dying in "the plague of '77" and yet we know her mom actually died in the nuclear explosion of shady sands.

[@SpitFir3Tornado]

That's something I've thought about too, but honestly the show is just too vague in regards to history. That could be when her mom left the vault, or when her dad brought her back, who really knows. Ultimately the problem is the lack of worldbuilding. The show does the worldbuilding for the totally new folks who haven't played the games, but doesn't offer anything for those who have to explain how the current state of where they are is the way it is. And I mean like, not even really any hints beyond the tidbits of main plot about the NCR collapse. Only in this comment section have I now discovered all this cope that the NCR is still alive and kicking but just further north or something, if that is the case this is one of the greatest failures of writing and worldbuilding. They had so much to build on and work with, and they're just going to say everyone forgot the NCR existed for the entire season? Like these are events practically everyone in the show lived through, and it never gets mentioned? The history of the greatest nation since the great war, which is still around by the way and right over there? Makes no sense.

[@Oxtrot600]

Exactly it’s a clear pothole Lucy thought her mom was killed by starvation in 2277 (plague of 77 which was hanks lying excuse for why Lucy’s mother was dead) when she was ghouflifed by the bomb which clearly supports the 2277 nuking date given Lucy’s mother clearly wasn’t around after 2277. while new vegas troops and people have dialogue about shady sands, we even send word to shady sands in the Cass quest in 2281 therefore it’s a huge plot hole.

[@JaegerMeister808]

@@GAEULsbn Exactly. How are people missing the fact that her dad was LYING. It's very clear he lied to her about her mom's death. It isn't a plot hole.

[@JuiceHead3]

This is a plot point, not a retcon. Her mom likely turned into a ghoul from the nuking of Shady Sands since she lived there. I wanted to keep the spoilers to a minimum because it seems clear quite a few haven't watched the show

[@Stubbs-ti1to]

@@JuiceHead3 Right but that still points to shady sands still being nuked in 2077. Lucy has memories and flashbacks that we see of the real sun and shady sands that ended when her mom died in 2077.

[@Jeff-cn9up]

Yes, it mangled the lore in so many ways. It damaged Mr. House, Vegas, the NCR and Shady Sands, the history of the war between America and China, the Boneyard, Caesar's Legion, The Brotherhood... and so much more. It's Bethslop to the power of Bethslop and doesn't deserve any attention, except mockery.

[@ilpr3dator646]

In what ways has it damaged Mr. House, Vegas, the war between America and China, Ceasar's Legion and the Brotherhood? I'm actually interested since I've seen the show and not really much is being covered in that Mr. House isnt really affected by it, yes, he shows in the meeting, but, it still can hold to New Vegas lore. Vegas isn't touched, just shown, and it shows like its there, so there is nothing to asume that it's ruined. The war between America and China is still there. Maybe there is a discussion to be had about the nukes, but, never there's been canon about who actually started the nuke thing (except the series, that IMPLIES that VaultTec wants to start, IMPLIES, not actually does). Ceasar's Legion is not mentioned? So how has it been ruined? And what part of the Brotherhood is ruined? I legit don't know if you actually watched the show or were on drugs while watching it.

[@Jeff-cn9up]

@@ilpr3dator646 Unlike you, I have played the games, know what they say, and am not on drugs.

[@ilpr3dator646]

@@Jeff-cn9up Then explain it to me, thats what I was going at you bafoon

[@ilpr3dator646]

@@Jeff-cn9up Then explain, because that's what I wrote, to please explain the reasons the stories got "mangled", because it's interesting to see and think about other points of view, but, as you seem to not be able to read, idk how you managed to learn the lore. Oh well.

[@YelMalanta]

@@Jeff-cn9up its okay to not like it, but at least give the reasoning behind your claims.

[@jamesp.7203]

How could you simultaneously says its because they planned it out for s2 but they didn't write the details of s2? That just means it's garbage "writing". Let's ruin the prior things so we can hypothetically fix it when we figure it out next chance

[@stephenjenkins3995]

I don't think you understand how writing works. You can have a framework without having specific details. And you don't want to add details without building the body of the story yet

[@jamesp.7203]

@stephenjenkins3995 I think you both overestimate the writers. If you put out a product, you should make sure it can stand on its own. They will earn the faith of the fans if and when they prove their ability to do it. I don't believe they have earned that benefit yet. I hope I'm wrong, but as of now, I don't think they have. I appreciate the response.

[@jamesp.7203]

Also, I definitely have more of an argument. I've worked out the framework, but I'm not going to post it for a couple years. I hope that will be enough to sate you.

[@Rhodophon]

Yes it did. Of course it did. The Boneyard is on the phone, kids. Glad to see the ratio. 4.3k dislikes. Peoples' heads are clearing after the initial rush of nostalgia.

[@Tom88]

'intended to be interpreted' ..maybe.... but its a pretty poor way of going about it if that's what they want. To say the fall of something and then give A date is pretty indicative it was a single event that happened at a certain time.... if it was supposed to be like the 'fall of rome' would you not put interconnected dates indicate a start and end with the fall as an overarching heading? there doesn't need to be any ambiguity with this, no need to make this particular point have any mystry as it doesn't do anything in the wider plot. Seems like a retcon or writing error to me.

[@alsaiduq4363]

Also there no "intended to be interpreted" when could be easily be interpreted as "Well since theres no date when shady sands was nuked , so its make sense to take as Shady Sands was nuked in the same year".

[@thatwelshman2713]

Yeah, normally juicehead is pretty alright but this is a weird hill to die on.

[@TootsyBootsy]

The arrow indicator is also the ONLY arrow indicator to poorly interrupter the time line would be to assume that a singular point in the listed history uses a different pattern than the entirety of the rest of the list, if the nuke was a different event it would have been given its own date.

[@JuiceHead3]

@@thatwelshman2713 guy its a fucking TV show, who is dying? This is what I think and literally hundreds of people asked me to make this video. I don't really mind if people don't agree, speculating and fan theories are the most fun part for me

[@abnnizzy]

@@JuiceHead3 Great games and good lore is dying. When you defend and sweep the retcons under the rug, it just make away for more Bethesda laziness. So they'll keep retconing things we love with their childish take untill there is nothing left. If you defend that, you're the problem.

[@dandare9055]

I absolutely think they are going for retcon. Why? I genuinely cannot understand. Spite? Maybe? I hope not.

[@abnnizzy]

Its Obviously spite. Todd is doing this for every "Bethesda don't understand Fallout!" and "New Vegas is the best modern Fallout!" he reads. So he will just erase and retcon everything Obsidian/Black Isle did.

[@danpaz9485]

@@abnnizzy It might be true, though Im betting its the executives trying to maintain their reputation for what they did with Morrowind whilst doing the complete opposite of what made them successful by appealing to a larger audience

[@abnnizzy]

@@danpaz9485 Appealing to a larger audience is fine, they could've done that by respecting the source material anyway but the way execs think is weird. But that still doesn't excuse why they completely retconned extremely simple things like how Ghouls works, timeline of Shady Sands destruction, what happened to the NCR, what the BoS from the west coast is like and all the locations erased from the show (They were in the Boneyard and NEVER even visited The Hub or at least Junktown that is closer, really?). Its all weird. I really loved the actors but I can't like the show.

[@windwaker105]

My main problem with this videos (and the whole show) is that a good show wouldn’t ask you to do this much head-cannons.

[@calvinjohnson6242]

It drives me up the wall that some peoples criteria for show quality is: “All chalkboards must be completely accurate to the lore of the source material and have no questionable details.” And not, you know: Characters, music, action, acting, plot, story, themes, set design, costuming, cinematography, tone, humor, dialogue, special effects, pacing, editing…

[@Vlugazoide]

​@@calvinjohnson6242yup. The show having a messed up canon could very much be one issue, but to treat it as something that completely devalues the show is extreme

[@smiley4995]

It doesn't, issue is Fallout New Vegas stans stupidity never changes

[@super_terram]

Honestly, I hate speculation. I don't mind mystery... that's fine. This isn't that. This could easily be solved if the showrunners would come on out and let us know what they mean by this. I'm not interested in speculating. If they come out, say they goofed, or say they retconned... that would be great. In the meantime, I'm with everyone else, who's not particularly happy with this goof/change.

[@Gakusangi]

The mystery is only as good as what you get with the final reveal. It's a lesson JJ Abrams never learned and why his Mystery Box approach fails.

[@super_terram]

@@Gakusangi Not what I mean. And anyway, Todd Howard confirmed the bombs destroy Shady Sands right after the events of Fallout: New Vegas, dispelling any confusion.

[@Hypno_BPM]

i rather not have things spelled out but that’s me

[@jonevansauthor]

@@Gakusangi Abrams mystery box doesn't work because he didn't know what was in it, when he wrote that it existed so Lost is a joke, much like Quantum 'God did it' Leap or Battlestar 'God did this too' Galactica:2 The Disappointment.

[@DeuteriumFoods]

Most lore literate Fallout TV fan

[@JuiceHead3]

What is lore?

[@ThisIsMyYouTubeAccount1]

​@JuiceHead3 You seem to be asking in a sarcastic or confrontational manner trying to start an argument, but apparently you actually don't know what lore is. Maybe use your head before you type. Also the dislikes are flooding in to your video now. Thank God. Terrible video btw.

[@stephenjenkins3995]

Literally nothing he said was wrong

[@Steel-101]

I think the 2277 date for Shady Sands is intentionally vague. I’m in the camp that believes Shady Sands experienced a defeat in battle or an economic decline. Then the nuke came after. Anyway I want to see season 2 before I make a full judgment. I believe we’ll get more info later on.

[@Slenderslayer351]

Moving the capital does suggest that Shady Sands was on the decline, most likely because of the Mojave Campaign and the NCR losing to either House or the Courier

[@bobafett9348]

Caesar ​@@Slenderslayer351

[@tonedeaftachankagaming457]

@@Slenderslayer351 2277 is the year of the first battle of Hoover dam. NCR was doing just fine, if expanding too fast and with weak ties in the Mojave. But the Republic itself is never hinted to be failing in FNV, quite the contrary.

[@jimmy1740]

@@tonedeaftachankagaming457it’s a 3 year gap, ww1 last for 4 years and ww2 lasted for 6 those were wars supported with the full weight of the functioning world and things moved along. I think 3 years is enough for the ncr to be pushed back by a good amount especially considering how ruined the world and how small the factions are

[@alsaiduq4363]

Shady Sands couldn't sacked or conquered in 2277 because otherwise it conflicts with new vegas saying that's a working settlement. Especialy because Kimball came from Shady Sands to the Mojave , so it must be in somewhat safe condition.

[@thesagaofaworld]

3:45 Except that people living back at the times wasn't referencing the "fall of rome" only 20 years after the date it has "occured". And all the point of Shady Sands being destroyed is because it was a flourishing city in a flourishing nation.

[@BolinFoto]

Speaking of Romans... for us the ancient romans were 2000 years ago, and for the ancient romans the ancient egyptians was 2000 years ago for them. Make you think.... :P

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

Even if what we saw in Griffith Observatory was the last of the conventional NCR, they can still come back. Vault 4. Sure, those guys are a bit weird, but ultimately mean well and have been documenting the history of the NCR. If they wanted to, they could become the New Capital of the NCR and welcome more survivors from the Observatory to the Vault. Before, they may have been to concerned with their own safety to take a stand, but with the death of Lee Moldaver whom they venerated, she may become a Martyr for them. It may motivate them to take a stand against the New Brotherhood.

[@coolshiznit13]

People are saying house is the canon ending. Yet it doesn’t look powered, let alone thriving in the end credits. I don’t think Mr house is still alive, I think the courier 6 killed him and choose the independent route.

[@gabemissouri]

Personally, I think Father Elijah's ending is canon, based on the presence of the cloud. As well as the NCR being nearly completely destroyed and the brotherhood being much more powerful.

[@Xictlii]

Remember it has been 15 years. I believe it’s the House Ending, He might be trying to contact Mr House.

[@Zytred]

Here's how I see it.. Possibility 1: It is any ending where House is alive BUT does not control the Hoover Dam. It would explain the lack of power and the chaos we see in New Vegas during both the Mojave Wide shot and the credit roll. Possibility 2: Yes Man Ending and Vegas falls into ruin. Possibility 3: House is just dead I hope it's the 1st one, if anything, but we'll see.

[@ohauss]

@@gabemissouri How many players, do you think, picked that ending? Yeah, they know very well they'd p*** off everyone.

[@coolshiznit13]

@@Xictlii I’ve Mr house is alive, new Vegas would be thriving, you forget prior to the battle of hover dam, you choose what part of California is fed power.

[@AnonymousAnonposter]

ShillHead never changes.

[@stephenjenkins3995]

Seems like you just want to be mad at Bethesda

[@JohnnyL11]

I love how just everyone and their grandma can use the power armor without any prior training. The Vault tec dude just picks it up and legs it to New Vegas like it was a daily occurence.

[@Carth531]

fallout 4 retconned that though, with the new PA system. But you could argue Nate has military experience, so... idk.

[@RevolutionaryGuitar]

In Fallout 1 & 2 power armor didn’t require any training. It’s funny that you are acting like the show or fallout 4 retconned power armor when it’s actually fallout 3 $ New Vegas that retconned it.

[@Carth531]

@@RevolutionaryGuitar yeah you def needed training in fallout 1. 2 maybe not since you were the chose one

[@ronnie9379]

@@Carth531 you say "though" as if he would go "Oh that makes sense then". But that's exactly the thing he's complaining about. That Bethesda retconned some of the lore for Fallout 4. And for a real shallow reason too. They just wanted you to see "Cool power armor". They Retconned the lore so they could spark more dopamine in people, not for a reason that benefits the lore and the universe. And for this reason people are upset. And it's not just fallout, it seems like everything these days. Look at fortnite. It's the most corporate thing you could ever imagine (Hyperbole) but people somehow don't see that. They fall for all the tricks they pull. It's like Diet Coke. They say "We hear you wanting healthy drinks, here it is!" and it's literally worse for you. They took out the sugar and put something worse in it. I wish people would start to see what these companies are doing. It's soulless and it's just trying to take peoples money. And even worse, it's brainwashing people, the fact that all these flashy shows and games are out and they can just forget about reality forever, constantly binging and disassociating from their bodies and their minds, never addressing the reasons why they WANT to escape. So it keeps them complacent in their suffering, not feeling it, and because of their stunted state, they don't want to change anything, and keep giving money to the companies that are ultimately controlling the way that we live and the reality we are experiencing. And I know that sounds far out there and crazy, but it's literally what's happening. It's been happening since Egypt, since the Roman Empire, Since the kingdoms of England, etc. We are finding our way through a sinister system made by sinister people.

[@Carth531]

@@ronnie9379 ain't reading all that

[@Plight_]

Just look at the elder scrolls... With how much Bethesda mesees up the lore in every one of their games can you really blame people for being upset? (Btw: Kellogg what NCR settlement was Kellogg born into?)

[@Plight_]

I agree, I'm going to take the chalk board as to just be referring to shady sands and not the NCR as a whole

[@SpitFir3Tornado]

@@Plight_ This is just cope. Just accept this show is going a completely different direction. If we went a whole season with barely any mention of the NCR, no reference to the greatest nation that has existed since the great war other than it's destruction, seemingly wiped from the memories of the masses who would have lived through it and then suddenly in season 2 they go "oh ya they were here the whole time everyone in season 1 just forgor", that is just idiotic writing and worldbuilding.

[@samburgerwithcheeze8145]

​@@SpitFir3TornadoOr as the other person said: Bethesda messed up with the dates. They literally did this with fallout 4 and 3 with cars, in 2 you could drive and they evolved enough to not use caps anymore. Bethesda reverted them back to the fallout 1 days in their games, which is weird considering they're after 2. Or how now the power cores in 4 die when they last for hundreds of years. Todd even said he thought of this as another entry like a game (some reason people thought he meant it was fallout 5) and knowing that they didn't really work on new Vegas, so they didn't actually remember dates, it could be assumed that they messed up. It's not cope, it's realizing Bethesda does stuff like this alot and people like forgetting to prove a point when there is none.

[@songsayswhat]

I want to say Kellogg lived in both The Hub and San Francisco.

[@alexandreutiyama547]

@@SpitFir3Tornado Yup I accepted the Show as canon, I also accepted that I will play Wasteland and forget that Fallout exists.

[@solaviryuvia8953]

The answer is yes. It did. "Ghouls now magically regenerate! Ghouls can prevent themselves from going feral by simply huffing magic jet!"

[@zxyatiywariii8]

And I fecking HATE that.

[@saggyflapjax]

Uh no. He’s taking rad-x.

[@solaviryuvia8953]

@saggyflapjax you wish That wasn't rad-X lol.

[@saggyflapjax]

@@solaviryuvia8953 its definitely not jet. Rad-x makes way more sense.

[@madladvad4203]

@@saggyflapjax Or something similar to Rad-X. Why wouldn't they have a drug designed to stunt the effects of radiation? Besides, the vials were holding a yellow/orangey liquid. A bag of Radaway contains an orange liquid. Maybe they were using Radaway to craft that ghoul medicine with.

[@PillowyMound]

Honestly, I think the show isn't half as good as people praise it to be. They just fucked up the writing like on so many other things. NCR group < BOS group < a single le Ghoul. The show is just consoomer bait.

[@HunterAnsorge-ok9jk]

“Half as good” implies it was good at all. I wouldn’t touch the show if you paid me to review it at this point. (Maybe for a six figure check id throw away a few morals)

[@kiramacarov]

You guys are so ignorant, they didn't change anything.

[@stephenjenkins3995]

"A single goul", yeah as if your character in any of the Fallout games wouldn't be OP after 2 hundred years. Either way, he didn't destroy the entire brother hood, just a room full of soldiers.

[@stephenjenkins3995]

​@@HunterAnsorge-ok9jkIt really seems like most of you guys WANT the show to have plot holes so you can be mad at Bethesda

[@CrowFuu]

They did Retcon New Vegas. When it says "Fall of Shady Sands" that means its Fallen, not Falling. In New Vegas like you mentioned no character ever mentioned Shady Sands falling, and it was still operational. Also lets not forget MASSIVE Plot Holes like how Vault 33 was in the Bone Yard, but the NCR never knew about it or made contact after over 100 years. You are a Sellout for a horrible Show and you know it. Must have been a nice Hotel...............

[@Catbeans99]

You stretched so far they should call you Reed Richards.

[@jonathanbaker4361]

You are giving the former writers of Westworld and Captain Marvel ALOT of credit. But we will see.

[@zerothehero3426]

Also this series is full of bs moments and characters acting plain stupid. This was 100% and error

[@jonathanbaker4361]

@@zerothehero3426 I'd argue it can be saved with new writers that don't suck. And less Amazon oversight

[@eagleowl833]

Another thing, Hank claimed Lucy's mum died in the great plague of 2277 but we know she was nuked along with shady sands. So that is yet even more evidence of the nuke being in 2277.

[@tones9_6]

At the end he does say she stopped being their mother the moment she took them to danger so in his eyes she was definitely dead to him.

[@batracio1415]

Hank is lying, it's revealed in the last episode that he'd been lying about Lucy's mother since she actually survived. The nukes were dropped by Hank and his fellow overseers, to destroy the town of Shady Sands after his wife abandoned him with Lucy and her siblings, so what stops him from lying about this. You can see in the last episode there's a ghoul sitting in the table with them, with her mum's necklace on its neck, then Lucy discovers that's her mother, so no, her mother did not die in that plague or when the nukes dropped, she never died in the first place. The fact that he lied about her dying to the plague, because she "died" to the nukes, doesn't mean the nukes dropped when the supposed plague happened, that's just not even coherent, the nukes could've dropped after the plague, and she could've died to the nukes after the plague that she did survive, Hank doesn't have to be lying about the plague's date, just the event to which she "died". Hank saying the date of the plague, and NOT denying the nukes, just gives more support to the theory that he isn't lying about the plague date, and therefore the plague's date is NOT a cover-up to excuse either her mother's death or the nukes. Also if we assume that Hank wasn't making up the whole plague thing, then by using logic we can assume that a nuked town can't go through a plague, so Shady Sands must have suffered the plague first, and then got blown sky-high. Giving extra support to the opposite argument of what you're saying, which would be that the Nuke couldn't have gone off in that date because it is contradictory to what Hank says, is logically wrong, and would imply a retcon. So the odds are against this being a retcon. The fact that the nuke date isn't clarified doesn't really mean anything, you'd be assuming then that Hank wasn't lying about the dates, which he could anyways. Besides, the fact that Hank admits that nukes did destroy the town, but still says there was a plague shows that he isn't lying about the plague to cover up the nukes (which would be the only reason he'd lie about the plague and make it up) if he wanted to lie he would've avoided mentioning the nukes, instead just saying that there was a plague and that killed her mother. The Plague and Nukes clearly happened, and they clearly didn't happen before or during 2277, since Fallout New Vegas says nothing about that, all of this must've happened after 2277 assuming it wasn't retconned. It was either a writing mistake, or Hank had the intention of lying, and made up the dates or got certain events mixed. I'm guessing as a conclusion that Hank actually thought that the bombs had really killed Lucy's mother, so that leads me to believe that blaming it all on the plague, but acknowledging the nukes means both events happened, the plague happened before the nukes by pure logic, the plague did occur in either 2277 or later and after it occurred there was the whole crisis that happened and Shady Sands then got nuked because Hank was mad at his wife. After it was nuked, he assumed the nukes had killed her and moved on, using the plague as a scapegoat in case anyone questions Lucy's mother's death.

[@SproutsHumanDisguise]

More likely the year she stayed in town, or could just be a writers error

[@stephenjenkins3995]

The kids would have been taken from her in 2077 but that doesn't mean she got nuked in 2077. There could easily be a time gap. And technically she didn't die until Lucy shot her

[@dandare9055]

So we are assuming they had no bad intentions... they're just stupid? I doubt it. There is a ton of fidelity in terms of sets and general production value.

[@Shkaaaa]

Pretty sure that the lack of NCR appearance can also be explained by the famine and mass expansion mentioned in New Vegas

[@Amanitaland]

Personally I got the sense that the NCR were starting go downhill as a whole in New Vegas

[@WatcherMovie008]

@@Amanitaland They were not going downhill, they were spreading way too fast for their own good, expanding territory where they didn't have enough bodies to cover it all. New Reno still complains about cattle raids because NCR is too far spread.

[@Fyssh]

@@WatcherMovie008 aka they were going downhill

[@Cleric1530]

​@WatcherMovie008 that's going downhill, when you have only a few hundred thousand people. Overexpansion, and a loss of administrative powers means your empire is falling. Maxson's BoS was able to make it's way out west pre fallout 4 and that was probably the deathblow to the NCR. The Courier and Ulysses also did a number on the NCR even if the Cannon courier say didn't kill off the President Kimball and Oliver. They were in New Vegas trying to win the region over for 7 years. That's longer than WW2 with a fraction of the population.

[@inzyniertv9305]

The sheer cope in this video is amazing

[@stephenjenkins3995]

Or maybe it's a valid explanation??? Why is everyone so desperate to just say "Bethesda sucks" instead of actually accepting an explanation?

[@inzyniertv9305]

@@stephenjenkins3995 nah

[@stephenjenkins3995]

@@inzyniertv9305 solid reply

[@randomguy5339]

If the fall of shady sands in 2277 and the nuke are two separate events, why didn't they write some big letters below the nuke explaining when it happened. Everything else was properly dated but why not the most important event?

[@gangstervikingen6537]

Dude ur argument about "why would they ruin it on purpose" could be applied to the witcher series and look how that is going

[@LUKAS_956]

Touch grass ffs

[@nononoohfuck]

Are you dense

[@ILikeIcedCoffee]

There is a major difference. We as fans say make independent stories in the same universe so they did instead of what the Witcher did which was rewrite the story.

[@knell18897]

Brain dead take. The witcher show was not following the game, they were following the book. With the author's blessing mind you. Book Witcher and game Witcher is 2 entirely different thing.

[@TokarevReacciona]

​@@ILikeIcedCoffeewhat about todd Howard saying all the series is canon? They destroyed the lore of the previous games and you are happy about it? Shameful

[@jamesjesse9773]

Basically nuked the lore. This fine. I don't consider it canon to Fallout 1, 2, and NV anyway. I don't care what Todd Howard says. If he wants it to be canon for Fallout 3, 4, and 76 then so be it.

[@MeepmcarthurtheSECOND]

It can't be canon

[@Ashkihyena]

Yes it did.

[@dw5116]

This was a really bad reach to try and justify bad writing and research. The fallout show is good on the surface. Having asceticly the look of the fallout 4 game but looking at past "the look" reveals alot more than just writers who didn't respect the world enough to write a story within it. This is a show where the head writer wanted to tell their story but they needed to put a fallout skin on it, to actually get approval for it. The only reason they put it LA was so they could have the actor storyline to give the stereotypical "Hollywood knows better than you" story beats.

[@stephenjenkins3995]

I think yall are just really desperate to be mad at Bethesda. You don't want explanations, you want plot holes so you can continue to call yourselves "true fans"

[@scottthong9274]

Combination view: Todd is testing the waters, if the NV fanbase screams loud enough he'll handwave it all away as production mistakes.

[@f.b.l.9813]

although i've always found FNV fans as loud and obnoxious, they NEED to scream louder this time at least, because from the looks of it, 90% of Fallout players only played Fallout 4 even though they had almost zero online presence in the comments section before this TV show happened.

[@tahmkench118]

Man I hate fnv fanboys but on this I agree with them. Todd Howard is a fucking menace and his lacky emil is gurgling out complete slop

[@MackBanjo23]

​@@f.b.l.9813Yeah 90% of the comments about the show are positive

[@connerkinney97]

​And f4 is the worst of the games it's a copy and paste of the plot of f3 with rolls reversed and small changes the only good things were far harbor and nuka world which feels like remastered dlcs from f3 too like the Pitt and point lookout

[@LinkiePup]

@@MackBanjo23because its good. And don’t take me as just a Fallout 4 dork. I’ve played them all. Absolutely loved 2 and it’s my favorite. I despise NV and 3 (more for the game play, not really the story. But I am going to try NV with some mods that are supposed to “fix” the problems. So we’ll see if it goes up.) And 4…. Was good…. Until you start looking close and the cracks start showing up… But overall… this show was absolutely good. Ep 4 dragged for me- not a fan of gore- but after that it really went up, and kept going up.

[@alsaiduq4363]

One thing i disagree about the whole Fall being decline is all other major events have a date and are clearly marked in a box. Only the Shady sands being nuked isn't marked with a date. If they would pin point the start of the decline, how couldnt they not do the same for a literaly nuke. There's no lack of survivors from shady sands nor outside from all places like New Reno, Boneyards , etc

[@Umcarasemvideo]

@@GAEULsbn It's literaly just one extra box.

[@The_Real_Albert_I]

Dayglow, Redding, Reno, San Fransisco, Hoover Dam, The Hub. These are the remaining Largest NCR settlements. The NCR is not yet lost! It may have Lost one head, but it has One more! (Imo the new capital is either Dayglow, San fransisco or the Hub)

[@dangi6516]

They will Thanos snap them like they did Followers, Gun Runners and Army guarding NCR National reserves...

[@noelreynolds7739]

I watched this video hoping to counter some plotholes I've seen in the show, and it failed. I feel like I just heard nothing but rambling. But one thing to point out - it doesn't matter if the nuke fell in 2077 or not. The fact that the fall happened in 2077, which is earlier than New Vegas, makes no sense even if it wasn't nuked back then. How about understanding the context first before you try to argue anything?

[@MLPDethDealr32]

Keep making excuses for Bethesda's F*ck up.

[@kiramacarov]

They didn't ruin anything, you all are just overreacting.

[@SufficingPit]

@@kiramacarov But... they kinda did... regardless of the immense amount of ruined lore, the end scene of New Vegas being in ruins nullifies all endings of the game, no choices you make matter.

[@Xycomm]

This video is going to age like goat milk just watch.

[@peri5552]

yes it substantially did, if you enjoyed the show good for you, so did I, but the show did ruined the lore. stop confusing two separate things, it’s not hard to admit that the show had a lot of flaws lorewise, but was pretty enjoyable to watch. bethesda doesn’t care that much about west coast lore before their acquisition of the franchise, so they like throwing references of those games here and there but lore consistency is not their primary concern.

[@tätt_ninjahr]

And what you gonna do about it? Why wanting to change the unchangeable, the new lore is out and the games will still be untouched since they were published way before the TV series was out. So either you don't compare them with each other and see the TV series as spinoff (even if it might not be one) or get mad at something you have to live with...

[@peri5552]

@@tätt_ninjahr im not gonna do anything, but anyone saying “nooo it didnt change the lore” is just coping right now, because they think if they deviated from the source material= it must be bad. I personally don’t like the changes, but I enjoyed the show overall. I just pointed out that people are desperately trying to prove something they shouldn’t.

[@stephenjenkins3995]

Everyone says "Quite trying to make up ways it's not a plot hole/retcon" Well, why are you so desperate for it to BE a plot hole/recton? If it can be explained then where's the issue? If you're so mad about the change, then why don't you want to accept the explanations for why it's not a change? It seems like you just want to be mad at Bethesda

[@Tyrannosaur6265]

I think the Rome analogy was perfect, the NCR spreading themselves too thin is constantly brought up in New Vegas, so I doubt a single nuke even get rid of a system that large.

[@12LoLproductions]

Brought up about their forces in the Mojave, but they have a large portion of California secured not destabilized

[@thehappyfrog1164]

I just think Todd Howard salty that fall in new Vegas did better than follow. Three and four combined

[@bruh-ni1fy]

Is this the famed new vegas delusion disorder? Fo4 sold more copies than any other fallout by a mile. New vegas sold 11.6 mil copies while 3 sold 12.4. Fallout 4 sold over twice what NV did at 25 mil, and has 6x the playercount of new vegas on steam alone, almost 10x back when both games reached their peak. There is quite literally zero objective metric by which you can say New Vegas did better than 4, much less combined with 3. Seriously, NV fanboys need to step out of their fantasy world for a moment and look at the numbers. Lol

[@Damian-cilr2]

@@bruh-ni1fy does that mean that fallout 3 and 4 is better though? Not really to me,fallout 4 needs a lot of mods to be a great game,and still the main story is quite stupid and crappy,same for 3 Still though,nv didn't sell better New vegas is a good game,yes,yet the gunplay is worse than 4 but still better than 3,but the roleplay is better in nv than 3 or 4.

[@Saren_Ranger]

​@@bruh-ni1fyso if a game is better then something that makes people who enjoy that game delusional? "I wonder what games you like so I can just call you schizo for even thinking they are good games compared to what I like" Maybe you're delusional

[@bruh-ni1fy]

@@Saren_Ranger No. I don't think you even understand the topic. Whether or not it is a better game is a different debate. Whether or not it DID better is not at all up for debate. Every observable metrics (sales, player counts) regarding which game DID better is not pointing at new vegas. And now regarding which is better. It's useless arguing which game is subjectively better because it's preference. Some people might prefer concord to overwatch, but by what right can we say overwatch is a better game? Observable metrics like sales or player count. Same logic applies here.

[@prinzdenax]

yoo, do you have a link or video of your NV modlist? Im starting a new playthrough since I just bought the dlc and your game plays so much better than vanilla

[@GrandMarshalGarithos]

Such a waste, since the first game we've seen the NCR develop just to have them killed off off screen. It's 200 years after the bombs, civilisation should've developed, the world grown and evolved, instead it's right back at wasteland. We could've seen something new and interesting with a functioning post apocalyptic nation but we just got more wasteland.

[@ShadowWizard]

We half to see s2 to find out what happened to ncr, but to me it seems they moved their main base to somewhere else and gave itbto ppl cause this place looked more like settelment then ncr base

[@ShadowWizard]

something i found out: tv series time period 2296 - 2297 Fallout: New Vegas takes place during the year 2281 in the region around the former city of Las Vegas (now the city-state "New Vegas"), around four years after the events of Fallout 3 and 204 years after the Great War of 2077. Fallout 4 takes place in the year 2287, 10 years after the events of Fallout 3 and 210 years after the Great War, a war between the United States and China over natural resources that ended in a nuclear holocaust in 2077. meaning series is future from all fallout games so no redcons at least major ones, only red cons there can be are is info mentioned in games, if its stuff not mentioned in games its not redcon but addon/new detail or detail never mentioned before

[@Damian-cilr2]

Thats bethesda fallout for ya,they want to keep the wasteland underdeveloped and at the state of 10 years after the bombs

[@NorthernEconomist]

9:01 Maybe it's a nod to the fact that maps and sizes in fallout are more condensed just like how I can walk from one city in the commonwealth to Boston in 1 day or from California to New vegas in a few hours. I thinks it's following that logic.

[@alissoncandatem1896]

Can you share the mods you're playing when showing new vegas footage? i'mm drooling over those gun animations, can't find a good mod that does not change much the vanilla feel of the game and still having those animations

[@bashdoescomedy]

Yeah if u find them let me know cause they look great

[@zednott]

i didnt think max came off as immature. i thought he came off as mentally disabled. or developmentally disabled, basically forest gump in fallout.

[@christianlasala7603]

He’s got the Idiot Savant trait.

[@Tabrazt]

So a 2/10 on intel?

[@songsayswhat]

I think he came out as "writers can't decide on his personality" abled.

[@leonrussell9607]

Yeah, he flip flopped between kinda normal and fully autistic

[@alexandreutiyama547]

My problem was not only with Maximus, a lot of characters were stupid only to drive dumb comedy I could not take anyone seriously. For guys trained and indoctrinated since childhood by the BoS Maximus and Thaddeus were too incompetent and quick to abandon the mission acting like stunted teenagers, that's not how indoctrination works.

[@Chunthoor]

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. I see it the other way around and I absolutely cannot imagine that this was a mistake. Quite the opposite. You ask yourself what there is to gain from it and the answer is nothing. It's not always about gain or loss, but sometimes it's just about a bruised ego. In this case, the ego of Todd Howard, who only ever wanted to make the best games and yet another company made the most popular Fallout game. I don't think his ego could take that. And as for the question of whether NV is still canon according to Bethesda. What do you think the answers should be other than yes? If they answered no, there would be a shitstorm like no other. They've now used the end scene as bait to get every Fallout fan on board for season 2, and they'll continue to destroy everything that isn't Bethesda Fallout. Just to push the "story" forward, of course. But hey, that's just my own take on the situation. In the end, only time will tell.

[@Machabees]

So Shady Sands began to "Fall" in 2277 yet the NCR was still powerful enough to defeat a slave army at Hoover dam in 2277 just prior to the events of New Vegas? Then during the events of New Vegas in 2281 they are gearing up for another fight? Doesn't seem like a nation or government in decline from my perspective. Traders and NCR citizens you encounter in New Vegas are clear that the NCR is a big bureaucratic lumbering machine but I never heard any hints that a decline in it's power had started 4 years ago. Just that it was growing faster than it could manage its territories. Historically speak the first loss when expanding too quickly is the territory that requires you to reach the farthest. Not your capitol. Also 'First Capitol' doesn't mean they moved the capitol. It just means it's where the NCR started. The show never stated nor is it stated anywhere else that the NCR chose a new capitol. Yes they are retconning and I'll tell you why. Because they want to tell a post apocalyptic story in a time setting and place where nations are built, expanding themselves, and struggling with the burdens of growth. That's incompatible so they just ditched the organization that clashed with their post apocalyptic setting. The lead farmers aren't NCR. They are just wearing old ranger armor while scavenging. The boy is 18 years old at most. No way is that kid a member of NCR's most elite force. Yes there are 30 former citizens of the NCR that live in Vault 4 now. Yup... that's a lot of people alright. They'll run up there and move in to that bombed out abandoned town that for some reason still has an entirely intact power gird. Also how did Hank destroy a city of 34,000 people? How did he do that? That's a monumental task for a single person who is operating mostly alone. He has the support of a few of Vault dwellers who know his mission and true origins and a brain in a robotic Roomba.

[@6ooflames]

And what's the excuse for the time of day during the great war? It should have been 6 am in LA and I don't think that's when you celebrate a birthday party...

[@TheRian125]

the problem with a "falling over time shady sands" is that lucy's mom died in 2277, hank told lucy that her mom died during a plague in 2277, but she was actually living in shady sands for some time, lucy tells maximus at some point that she remember the vault lights being as strong as the sun, on the last episodes she discovers that the feral ghoul at the table with maldover is actually her mom, yep it was indeed the sun that burned her face because she was in shady sands with her mom, hank decided to nuke shady sands on that same year and blame the plague for her mom's death, we also have maximus, there's only 19 years between 2277 and 2296, maximus appears to be 5 when the bombing happened, he would be too young if the bombing took place after 2281, there's really no way out of a retcon, they either have to scrap shady sands going kabum in 2277 or scrap half of fallout new vegas lore

[@Wile_E_Cyote]

yeah these people are coping it seems pretty obvious the writers made a continuity error. which is made even more obvious by the fact they combined shady sands and the boneyard.

[@kreenbopulusmichael7205]

@@Wile_E_Cyote its only a continuity error if you assume very specific dates and ages we dont actually have so...

[@Wile_E_Cyote]

@@kreenbopulusmichael7205 Questions we have answers for. Q. What year did Shady Sands fall? A. 2277 Q. What year did Lucy's mom Disappear from lucy's life? A. 2277 Q. Why did Lucy's mom disappear from Lucy's life? A. She disappeared due to a conflict between her and Lucy's father that resulted in Shady Sands being nuked. Q. What year does New Vegas take place in? A. 2281 Q. Does New Vegas mention shady sands being nuked? A. No. Questions I want you to answer. Q. Why does every graphic on the schoolboard timeline have a date except the nuke? Q. Why would the teacher leave out a date for the most pertinent event on her educational timeline? Q. Why does the only arrow in the timeline point to the only event on the timeline without a date? Q. If the nuke was suppose to have happened after the "fall" Why is Shady Sands before the nuke shown and Spoken about as a completely functional and thriving society In the show if it is suppose to have "fallen" in 2277? Q. Why would a "falling" Shady Sands need to be nuked if the reason for it being nuked was because it was threatening vault tec plans by reestablishing civilization? Q. What caused the "fall" of Shady Sands? Q. What year did the Shady Sands get nuked? Q. Is the most likely answer not that the writers created a continuity error by playing it loose with the timeline just like they played it loose with the location of Shady Sands?

[@kreenbopulusmichael7205]

@@Wile_E_Cyote well for one I stand by my statement, you’re all still assuming specifics. But even then, why didn’t we hear about it in new Vegas ? Idk maybe the remaining NCR members tried real hard to ensure that information didn’t make it outside the region, maybe no one cares because bombs dropping on cities happens regularly in the series ? Plenty of reasons, you just can’t think for yourself

[@KJ-od8wq]

I think you had decent points up until you said Maximus looked 5. You clearly are not around children very much lol.

[@moe5020]

eitherway it's basically ruined new vegas because the events and everything thats happened is all irrelevant because: lol it was vault-tech all along everything was decided by a room full of cartoon villains trying to "win capitalism" and all that matters is a handful of pre-war characters and their extra special supercool mcguffin for cold fusion wow isn't that way cooler and more interesting then all that boring stuff about all the tribes and factions, all the new cultures and philosophies, or the new sentient races.

[@MeidoInHebun]

Jumping through hoops to explain poor lore decisions by TV producers.

[@ptown24]

The Shady Sands stuff is messy but my question is hold Did Moldaver survive for 200 years and hasnt aged? She wasnt on good terms with Vault tec they stole her cold fusion process so i want to know how she did that

[@songsayswhat]

My theory is Moldaver a) was high up Vault-Tec after they stole cold fusion (her company could have been bought out) b) Maybe out of Stanford and/or Enclave ties. They could have had cryosleep, too. They never explained how the Enclave guy got hold of the Vault-tec tech.

[@9paths497]

Was wondering same thing about her age

[@dee4622]

Vault 31 All management involved with Vault-Tec were put in cryosleep Moldaver was no different

[@f.b.l.9813]

she took the Cabot serum

[@SoalRaptor]

The billboard says “First capital” suggesting there’s been others

[@Blippi21]

truth, i cant comprehend some ncr cultist think todd just basically retconned all the fnv lore.

[@hyperborea-ua]

We know that Shady Sands was destroyed when Lucy was very young. If we speculate that she's is about 18-20 at the start of the show in 2296 , it implies that the city was likely nuked around 2276-2278, matching the date on the board. Moreover, I think that the word "fall" has a very specific meaning, and if they meant the start of a decline, they would have just written that.

[@jetri_co]

if it was the bombs, they could've written "destruction of shady sands" very very unlikely someone would write "fall" to refer to it being nuked. lots of other impactful and fitting words that can describe its obliteration, aside from "fall"

[@acex222]

@@jetri_co why would they write a date next to everything except the nuke?

[@BrainInAVat7]

But we know she’s several years old when it’s nuked, so you’re dates don’t work

[@knell18897]

@@jetri_co then why would they even draw an arrow moving pass the "fall of Shady Sand" ? If that was the date of the nuke, wouldn't just draw the nuke right above the date ?

[@jetri_co]

@@knell18897 i think we're on the same side buddy. todd already clarified this btw we are correct that 2077 is not the day of the nuke

[@kaelzus]

They basically retconned the Master... The vaults in the show have their entrances exposed outside, which would make no sense for a nuclear shelter but it's not my point, they put this overly exposed vaults in the Boneyard beside the Master base... So the master was searching all California for vaults full of "prime humans" when he had like 5 just in his doorstep not even hiding really? Another point is the moving of Shady Sands, the city was founded by survivors from vault 15 did they walk all the way to de Boneyard to build it there or they moved vault 15 and 13 to the Boneyard too, nice more vaults on the Master doorstep that he did not see... But the biggest retcon was, "we nuked Shady Sands to keep the post apocalyptic vibe", the NCR has all of California and there's no NCR presence in the show, also they put Filly a lawless city made from trash in the middle of NCR territory, how that makes sense? Ok Shady Sands was nuked, but what happened with the NCR at the Boneyard, and the Hub? The truth about the show is simple, they made what Bethesda normally does a fallout spin-off, a new story with no connection with the main story from fallout 1,2 and NV. But unliked Bethesda they choose to do it in the locations with the most developed narrative and storyline of the IP and completely ignored it. Bethesda at least had the sense to do it in onther places so they don't have to handle a narrative they don't understand, but the show runners didn't gave a f. So yeah the show retcons Fallout 1 and 2 hard, and for no aparent reason, they didn't use nothing from the narrative alrdy developed in the location, they did the "stuck in time Bethesda fallout". If the show was in Texas or Canada would be exactly the same, there was no reason to do it in California if they where going to ignore all the lore.

[@sharkwithmanners1734]

I have watched your video and also watched Oxhorn’s video and his explanation of the lore and the glaring mistake makes so much more sense, you seem to be trying to appease Bethesda with your explanation, whereas Oxhorn really explains the issues and in my opinion gets it right.

[@songsayswhat]

Does Oxhorn actually come down on Bethesda in his review? That surprises me. I used to watch his stuff all the time, but stopped because it felt like he was unwilling to criticize anything about a franchise he clearly loves. Glad to hear he's not still doing that.

[@sharkwithmanners1734]

@@songsayswhat I never saw him of coming down on Bethesda’s side, he normally will put both sides of the argument together and then explain which side and why he chose that side. I think healthy debate is good as long as people don’t lose their minds over it. I just think his explanation is quite cogent and compelling compared to juicehead’s, but it’s just my opinion and i think it’s good we have differing viewpoints and opinions

[@SpottedHares]

I think the bigger issue is not Shaddy Sands falling in relevancy over time(I mean the capitol of my own little area of the world just have the much relevancy past being the capitol) or it getting Nuked(we learn in the show the nuking is incidental) but we kind of have to just accept that after the destruction that whole area around it not only got abandoned but reverted backwards in a decade. Yes in the real world sever disaster can cause a full scale collapse (even in the modern day), but their are other cities in viable fleeing distance and it would still be well with living memory that other cities are not to far away. It just feels like the story takes place in the area with the people to stupid or stubborn to flee to more stable areas are none of the other major population centers(if the NCR really did evaporate) haven't begun expanding? granted this assume we live in a bubble and the expanding Fallout narrative can no longer expand. We will have to wait and see what happening elsewhere on the West and thier are a lot of question left like why was the Brotherhood of Steel in Shady Sands when their realtionship with the NCR at the time of Nuking is in question.

[@T.Cun.]

So many shipping water and huffing gas for this mediocre show. The only redeeming feature of this show was Walton Goggins...... SMH *slowly*

[@Thekillerdeuce]

They retcon it. They retcon a lot of the lore. I get you love Bethesda and will always defend them but like come on. The show is great but they retcon a lot of the lore

[@Zenn3k]

There are other times the show tries pretty hard to say it happened in 2277 though, which is weird. Lucy's mom for example. Lucy mentioned the crops "burning" as a kid, implying it was the nuke. Her mother being killed by said fire, which clearly ghoul'ed her, so it must be the nuke. The time Hank was woken up, 2268, gives enough time to meet his wife and have Lucy, 9 years, have a little buffer to romance and marry and be pregnant, we'll say 2-3 years? That makes Lucy 6-7, about the age of that little girl, so that puts it 2277 as well. There are more too. If they didn't want it to be 2277, they sure tried really hard to imply it was 2277 for some reason.

[@ShadowWizard]

Its still future from new vegas and fo4, in that time ncr could have moved their main base to a new location

[@Leopard-2A6..]

​@@ShadowWizard"main base" the ncr isn't a military group its a nation

[@uniquescorpions4802]

It’s a good show, but yes there are big lore problems, but it will hopefully be solved. ESPECIALLY the whole invincible ghoul thing