Did Tolkien "Invent" Elves??

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0:00 Intro
0:54 Atlas VPN
2:25 Early History
7:35 The Transformation
12:25 Tolkien
18:57 Christmas Elves

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

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[@enterprisesoftwarearchitect]

Wow!

[@neilbiggs1353]

OK, between using your pet rat for the advert, and the way you talked about the deer, you are officially ridiculous in the best way! Well done Jess!

[@josephvisnovsky1462]

@parttimehobbit The threat is REAL kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4nHaaunZZt5edk

[@toni_bamanaboni5471]

atlas... more like dat eleven ass. Toy making vid when 😂

[@jorgeabuauad]

I think they are demonic entity's and movies just use propaganda to brainwash people in to loving them, genies and fairy also are demons.

[@jamesbell7696]

Please don't let lighting or sound issues deter you from more outdoor filming. Most viewers, myself included, really don't care about pro-level lighting on youtube. You're smart and entertaining so just you keep doing you.

[@cocobunitacobuni8738]

this

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Thanks so much! I love outdoor filming, and plan to do more, even with logistical issues sometimes

[@mournblade9978]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire as long as you can "normalise" the audio in post it should be fine. dont have to much dips and peeks it should be fine

[@ninja393]

This is actually my favorite part. The constant digressions are hilariously consistent. I value them highly.

[@MesaperProductions]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire *DO* let sound issues concern you. Audiences will tolerate bad or distorted visuals. But the second time they say "What did she say?", you've lost them.

[@HogandDice]

Hey, folklorist here. Just wanted to say this is way better done and researched than 90% of work I see done on these topics. Thank you for not being one of the people that makes my job more difficult.

[@berndbla345]

what? the stuff she said about pagans and the christianization of Europe is baffling wrong.

[@Pingwn]

@@berndbla345 Which part of it?

[@friendlyneighbourhoodanarc3039]

Nothing is spelled correctly or pronounced correctly either

[@Well_Earned_Siesta]

When I hear "elf", I think "cool, +2 to Dexterity!"

[@NuisanceMan]

A malevolent elf tried to stop the release of this critical information by running a lawnmower.

[@blake_ridarion]

There are many kinds of elves in Finnish culture, many of which inspired Tolkien, especially in naming some of his elves and higher beings (Ilúvatar-Ilmatar, Ulmo-Vellamo, Undomiel-Untomieli etc.) Anyway, one random elven-story I like is that of the "Haltiatar" forest-maiden. Sometimes, when a man spends the night in the forest, the Haltiatar might come dancing around his bonfire, or if a man was walking in the forest, she might walk towards you. She would be delightfully beautiful from the front, with her long, radiant golden hair and fine laced dress... but her backside would be hollow, and the insides would be of tree-bark. When the man to his horror sees this he would be startled, which in turn would frighten the Haltiatar, and she would run away.

[@edlawrence1107]

Maybe this is why she always faces the camera? 😊

[@MpowerdAPE]

I read somewhere that Finnish was actually Tolkien's favorite language.

[@gamebook727]

Sounds like some myths of trolls I have heard where they have a tail and an interior of rotten wood, or myths of dryads.

[@Cythil]

I have even heard a hypothesis that the Finns themselves inspired the notion of Elves in Norse Mythology. Now, I doubt that is the case. But I thought I mention it as an interesting sidenote considering the topic. But there may very well have been ideas that did come from the Finns. Of course, the very nature that Elves are so vague in our sources make it hard to know. And of course, Norse mythology itself it not uniform. What little we have preserved differs quite a bit depending on where and when it was record.

[@DrDolan2000]

Interesting. I wrote a bit of a similar little story myself. Minus the hollow back made of tree bark

[@MartinMCade]

My introduction to Tolkien was reading The Hobbit, then the Lord of the Rings, in 6th grade. That would have been in 1976 -1977. One things that is immediately noticeable about the Elves (And Goblins, as well) is how different they are between the two tales. Elves in The Hobbit still have a bit of the singing, dancing, and silly behavior, where in the later books they are the tall, ethereal, and otherworldly Elves we think of as Tolkien-style Elves. Another interesting thing (to me, at least) is the plural. I have read that the so-called "proper" plural of elf should be "elfs", but Tolkien chose to use "Elves". This has a parallel in the English language where other words change an F to a V - leaf and leaves, shelf and shelves, wharf and wharves. (I think this is also true of Dwarf, and the choice of Dwarves as the plural.) If I'm not mistaken that's often an indication of Scandinavian or Old Norse words that have migrated into English. As a philologist, I'm certain that Tolkien was aware of this and chose "Elves" deliberately, to give his Elves a context that would seem more Nordic, since much of his inspiration was Nordic and Finnish.

[@pmsteamrailroading]

Yes, the elf on the shelf thing is an abomination and a crime against humanity. (I have hopes that the inventors and manufacturers will be dragged to The Hague and put on trial) But I also must point out that Santa‘s elves are clearly the dwarves of Tolkien’s world Indeed, in the fellowship of the ring, the chapter “a Long expected party. “ There is a reference to toys that are clearly magical and of dwarf make. It says that they were imported from the lonely mountain and Dale. Also remember Tolkien wrote “letters from Father Christmas” There are plenty of ways to add a little of Tolkien magic to Christmas. Stir in a little of king moonracer, and you have something truly magical.

[@colmlarkin8665]

We do still learn about myths like the Tuatha de Daanan in elementary school in Ireland, especially their intersection with mortals and meddling in affairs of the living and demi gods like Cúchuaillan. My own teacher in the 90's didn't bother to tell us they were myths, leaving a class of especially superstitious children, (even by Irish standards)

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Haha that's great! I'm glad they're still teaching this stuff, it's so important

[@deyfuck]

Same. I credit some of my atheism to being taught Irish myths in such a factual manner when I was a wain. Everything was wrapped up in the same voice, so when the belief in fairies went, so did everything else, mostly. I actually had a friend from England over visiting recently and fairy forts came up, and I found myself using that exact same matter-of-fact voice to explain it, to the point she had to ask me if I really believed what I was saying.

[@roberthenahan7885]

I remember when I was in second grade, the teacher told us the legend of the children of Lir. When someone questioned how Lir's wife changed the children into swans, he explained that everybody in those days had a bit of magic,

[@colmlarkin8665]

@@roberthenahan7885 that's honestly what I would have done! Imagine being put in a position of trying to explain the difference to kids. I don't envy the teachers 😂... I'm glad we got that dose of it though. I also carry a lifelong fear of the Banshee because of my grandmother's stories. And I wouldn't change it for the world.

[@elenchus]

do Irish schools still teach the Lebor Gabála Érenn these days?

[@chromes5567]

What a pleasant Friday surprise

[@ivoivanov7407]

“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder. Elves are marvelous. They cause marvels. Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies. Elves are glamorous. They project glamour. Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment. Elves are terrific. They beget terror. The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning. No one ever said elves are nice. Elves are bad.” ― Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

[@tarmaque]

"Elves are _bad."_ Sir Terry Pratchett always gets an upvote. GNU Terry Pratchett

[@michaelsommers2356]

I think Pratchett's view of elves is more reasonable than Tolkien's. Creatures that powerful are bound to use that power to oppress others. Humans certainly act that way.

[@hkpew]

@@michaelsommers2356 Not all humans who have power use it to oppress, and not all of Tolkien's elves are noble or altruistic. In The Lord of the Rings they kind of come across that way, but they are somewhat peripheral to the story and starting to disassociate themselves from Middle Earth. You don't need to look any farther than The Hobbit to see elves behaving badly, and the elves of The Silmarillion are quite human in their failings.

[@MickAlderson]

I think Pratchett was riffing on the Victorian fairy stories more than he was on Tolkien's elves, but he was looking back to what they were before the fae were diminished. These elves harken back to nature spirits that inhabited the land. Every rock, pool, and tree had a guardian spirit; you crossed them at your peril. They were why bad things happen. They are older than the Iron Age, which is why elf-shot is flint-tipped, snd they cannot tolerate iron. Elf-shot is how the medieval mind explained ancient flint tools. My person opinion is that nature gods, shamanism, came about in the stone age, pantheism was a produce of the neolithic/bronze age, and monotheism was a late development. But the older beliefs never went completely away. The high gods were powerful but far away, and mostly the concern of the nobility. The common folk, the peasants, feared the local fae. They were close to you, and powerful. If you kept them happy, they might help you, like the brownies, the hobgoblins and other house elves. But they were easily offended. If you were lucky, they just abandoned you. If you were unlucky, they punished you. Worst case, you didn't survive. Some were outright hostile. They were why you went into the forest or to sea and never came back. The high gods were the concern of the nobility, and they changed as dictated by the nobility. The small gods, the local nature spirits, never went way. That why whether the high god was Laugh or Odin or Yahweh changed with whoever ruled the land. The local goblin remained, and was personal. Tolkien's elves are much closer to the tuatha de daanan, the gods of the nobility. Pratchett's elves are ancient nature spirits, the gods of the peasantry. Tolkien's elves pass when the world changes, while Pratchett's remain, as they have done in THIS world.

[@tarmaque]

@@MickAlderson I disagree, but only on a few key points. Pratchett's elves are very specifically based on the fairies in Shakespeare's _A Midsummer Night's Dream,_ of which his novel _Lords and Ladies_ is a parody. These fairy characters he liberally augmented with country stories of mischievous spirits from all over Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. Hence they are very much the myths of the common people rather than the nobility, as you have described the difference.

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

Another one of Tolkien's influences was the Irish writer Lord Dunsany. The elves in Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter pretty clearly contributed to Tolkien's version of the elves.

[@paulvonhindenburg4727]

Dunsany also was a foundational influence on Lovecraft.

[@sykoelf]

Particularly enjoyed the irony of “I might be mauled to death” and a seamless transition to “a word from our sponsor”

[@michaelogrady232]

As Galadriel said, after the destruction of the ring they could either sail to Valinor or become a rustic folk of dell and cave. The elves diminished with the onset of the age of men. Pretty Tuatha de Danaan if you ask me.

[@albion65]

You didn't mention a very important book that Tolkien read in the development of his Elves, it's been mentioned a couple of times here in the comments, and that is the 1924 novel "The King of Elfland's Daughter" by Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett, 18th Baron of Dunsany (under the name "Lord Dunsany"). In this book the Lord of Erl has his son woo and marry the title character, Lirazel, in order for Erl to become more popular. But the son neglects his wife and she feels she doesn't fit in with the humans so she lets her father bring her back to Elfland. The son spends years on a hopeless quest to find Elfland, neglecting his land and son whom Lirazel left behind. However Lirazel also misses her family so the Elf King uses his last magic spell to reunite them by absorbing the land of Erl into Elfland. The son and Lirazel are the literary ancestors of Aragorn and Arwen Evenstar while the great magic the King of Elfland wields prefigures both Elrond and Galadriel. Dunsany's book fell out of the spotlight for decades until it was republished in 1969 to a new generation of fans. One of those fans is Neil Gaiman who paid homage to it, and other fantasy works, in his novel "Stardust".

[@hrothgleas1]

Another great book

[@MartinHobbsActor]

I love the portrayal of elf land being timeless, as in actually frozen in time until the humans disturb it and send ripples through out. When I was reading it, the description of Lothlorien came to mind.

[@Kevin_Street]

@@MartinHobbsActor Yes, I loved that! It felt very inhuman, like elves didn't need anything to be happy because nothing changes for them. Then humans come in, tracking mud around with our dirty shoes and making demands, and time starts moving forward. We literally can't coexist with elves without them losing something and becoming more like us.

[@Pengalen]

This would be really great adapted as a movie. I am doubtful it could ever be made today though.

[@samuraiwoman7088]

@@Pengalen Why?

[@MusikCassette]

fun fact: in the German translation the Tolkien Elves are called Elb. Wich is a word that does not exist in the German language previous to Tolkien. It is kind of amalgamation of the words Alb and the word Elf.

[@Thraim.]

Not quite right. While "Elb" is used exclusively when referring to Tolkien's elves today, it was in normal use up to the 18th century in Altdeutsch. (Alb and Elb were used interchangeably) The new form "Elf" came to Germany through the English language. I've found conflicting reports on whether it was the translator suggesting the use of the old form, or Tolkien. Either way, I'm not surprised Tolkien favoured "Elb", considering his love for old languages.

[@NaveaDraws]

I thought Germans did have their own native word for "Elf". Like in Goethe's poem "Erlkoenig."

[@Thraim.]

The name is taken from the Danish "Ellerkonge". It was Johann Gottfried Herder (another German poet and writer) who translated it to Erlkönig.

[@MusikCassette]

@@Thraim. so this is not a refference to the bird?

[@Thraim.]

​@@MusikCassetteI'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to dive any deeper but according to Wikipedia: "[...]dass Herder die Doppeldeutigkeit des dänischen Homonyms elle - das sowohl „Erle“ als auch „Elfe“ bedeuten kann - bekannt war und er also bewusst den Begriff „Erlkönig“ wählte, „um auf die Verbindung der mythologischen Vorstellung von Elfen mit den feuchten Orten anzuspielen, an denen Erlen wachsen und wo Nebel entsteht, der an tanzende Schleier erinnert.“"

[@Laurelin70]

You definitely are a Disney Princess! You even have a mouse (rat) helper! 😁

[@nickmolina6513]

I actually really enjoy Sapkowski’s variety of Elves in the Witcher series. Their status as innately magical beings that are persecuted during the endless spread of humanity echoes those themes of industrialization ruining the beauty of nature that Tolkien brought

[@albertkowalski5629]

Sadly Netflix's The Witcher series has ruined elves and everything else.

[@joso7228]

Yes I see them that way too. And maybe a better 'metaphor' for todays delicate people who have to toughen up to cope with the modern world and derogatory insults from other people. Go Elves!!

[@04nbod]

@@albertkowalski5629 When I saw what they did to The Witcher Elves I stopped watching that show

[@legojedimasterplokoon2173]

@@04nbod I have not watched the show. What did they do the the elves?

[@geswut3144]

@@legojedimasterplokoon2173I genuinely don't know, I mean some of the elf actors are black but eh

[@francescoresente6913]

My favourite Elves are the Dunmer from the Elder Scrolls. They have a culture that feels real, their religion, their ambiguous relationship with their past and all the good and bad. It feels like an actual living culture.

[@jam34786]

Submit to the three, the spirits, and thy lords.

[@elf_prince_aefion]

ah, another person on here who is not a filthy swit ☺

[@AngelavengerL]

You friends are some fine f'lahs!

[@shanecollier4909]

This lass is a stunner, naturally beautiful and her videos are descent so that's a bonus haha. Keep up the good work.

[@jonathanwessner3456]

As an elf, I can say, you did an admirable job. The truth about Santa's elves, and those that help the Shoemaker is that they are brownies and gnomes. Similar to how people limp them all together as Fey, or Seelie/unseelie. Santa also does employ elves, as information gatherers. "He sees you when your sleeping, he knows when your awake, he knows if you've been bad or good".. because he has spies everywhere. We are very good at appearing "human"

[@nickwheeler403]

The Night Elves from Warcraft lore are really cool. One of my favorite versions of elves outside of Middle-earth.

[@anthonyholton2886]

This was a wonderful presentation, so thank you! If I could offer yet another version of the elves, Nancy Marie Brown's, "Looking for the Hidden Folk: How Iceland's Elves Can Save the Earth," is a really fun read. The Huldufolk of Iceland are very closely tied to the land of Iceland itself, and Brown does a wonderful job of explaining the Icelandic affection for Elf stories. Her assertion is that respect for creatures so closely connected with preserving nature can teach us quite a lot about how to do the same for the land on which each of us live. For Icelander's it's not about believing in the mythical version of their elves, but in the values they represent.

[@duckmcduck007]

What a fabulous detailing of Elven history! In Danish folklore we have a number of creatures relating to the English elves. As you mentioned we have "nisser" typically associated with Christmas, but existing all year round, mischeivous creatures, often represented as little bearded men, but frequently they will have a nisse wife and nisse children. Then we have have-nisser, you'll know these as garden gnomes, and we have "alfer" (alf in singular), a good-natured, slender and smaller-than-humans folk that live in and care for nature. We have "feer" (fe in singular) or fairies, similar to alfer, although fairies have wings. Alfer may be the same size as faires or considerably larger. Finally, have the "elvere" (elver in singular), human sized, nearly white skinned, and known to dance during misty weather leading young men and women astray with their grace and beauty. "Astray" to be taken literally, ie. into bogs and other dangerous territory. They would lead them to their home under ground and keep them forever. Elver are generally evil, but somewhat more regal the other creatures. To a Dane Tolkien's Elves seem part Alf (in their good natured and innocent sense), part Elver (in their beauty and grace, and their hierarchical way of life), part his own Creation. In our folklore we do have one last creature, the "trold", large and ugly though not as large as trolls typically are portrayed in movies. Trolde may inhabit every emotion, some are kind, some angry, some evil, etc. They live alone or in families.

[@AnotherDuck]

Speaking from a Swedish perspective, those are all familiar to me with only slightly different spellings. A word that might be related is the word for river, "älv", or "elf" in older spelling (but same pronunciation, probably best transcribed as "elv" in English). It's likely it's related to "älvor", the creatures dancing on rivers and meadows (which is where mist often forms). It's less certain that it's connected to "alver" (elves; "alv" or "alf" in singular), as it could just be a coincidence that the words are as similar as they creatures sometimes are, but as far as I know that's unknown.

[@stapler942]

This is more into the proto-Romantic, Sturm und Drang version of elves, but one portrayal that is memorable to me (though not my favourite of course) is Goethe's "Erlkönig" (Erlking), which is in turn based on a poem of the Elf-king of Danish legend. Here the Erlking is a malevolent creature of the woods who unalives children with a deadly touch, and the German poem involves a father racing home on horseback with his son, who is being called and chased by the Erlking. Why memorable to me? Because I was a music student at one time, and Schubert's song setting of "Erlkönig" is famous for its galloping rhythm and dramatic tension, and especially infamous among pianists for its physically demanding octaves. 😝

[@stapler942]

_Mein Vater, mein Vater! Und hörest du nicht..._

[@michaelsommers2356]

Set to music by Schubert, then the piano part was modified by Liszt: kzbin.info/www/bejne/apClnoWboMp9bqM

[@mon_moi]

When I read the Hobbit in 12th grade English, the description of Thranduil and the Mirkwood elves reminded me exactly of Erlking riding in the haunted woods (even his title, the Elvenking, sounds similar). It's a fascinating image really, the idea that although Thranduil hadn't fallen under the shadow of Dol Guldur, he still is formidable and fearsome in his own way.

[@TahoeNevada]

My favorite Elves are the ElfQuest elves by Wendy and Richard Pini. It’s a graphic novel series that been in publication since 1977. Tolkien elves are the template that they use, and then throw it out! The main characters are known as the Wolf Riders. Basically, wood elves that ride on wolves because they’re bad ass! And they’re only about 4-5 feet tall. Then, there’s the High Ones (high elves ala Tolkien types), but many but not all elves in the World Of Two Moons are magical shape shifters, and some have changed to live under water, one Tydalk, was shaped into a flying bat-elf hybrid with wings instead of hands. Also, humans and elves are mortal enemies. Trolls and pixies are former slaves to the High Ones, and have a complicated relationship with elves. This is a *very* truncated synopsis. If you don’t already know of EQ, you should definitely check it out!

[@ciktri6389]

and so underrated, i lost count of how many i've asked to no avail if someone's heard of ElfQuest. i started on ElfQuest so they are the elves i measure all others against, truly epic and gritty and with the greatest origin story of all for me ❤️

[@gozer87]

One of my best nerd parent achievements is to introduce my daughter to Elfquest. Her first cosplay was an Elfquest OC.

[@TahoeNevada]

@@ciktri6389 I believe EQ is (or was) the longest continuously running, indie published comic books series.

[@ciktri6389]

@@gozer87 ooh thats so cool, i have failed to get my son(15) into it so far, however we are going for a holiday to the mountains today and he has promised to read book 1 (helps that there is no wifi where we're going 😂

[@ciktri6389]

@@TahoeNevada full on 😮, as a lot of us fans remember Wendi and Richard had talks about making EQ into a movie at times which unfortunately never came about, so i keep praying that hollywood will tire of superheroes and... well ElfQuest always made me a bit of a dreamer, any day now ❤️

[@fr.andygutierrez5356]

Thank you for all the work that you had to have put into preparing this video. It shows in the caliber of the content that you consistently put out. Two gold stars!

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Thanks so much!

[@Ben_From_Marketing]

I learnt about the Tuatha Dé Danaan my entire childhood and came across LotR's much later in life but it's never ever been a question in my mind- everything the Tuatha Dé Danaan are is translated almost directly to Tolkien's Elves in description and existence.

[@IlluminosaImmortalis]

The Tylwyth Teg always fascinated me, especially as I grew older and became attracted to Welsh myths and legends. I read a fascinating dissertation that was written in the 1830s by a priest who spent years collecting fairie stories and first hand accounts from locals (I cant remember the region from which he collected the first hand accounts, please forgive me... I read this a long time ago!). It was so interesting to me to read how many people spoke of their Fairie ancestors. They truly believed they were related to fairies and were proud of their fairie blood! (Or so they attested). From what I've read, there's still a strong belief in these beings within Wales today, so cool! One older priest (from the above mentioned dissertation) gave a chilling account of being abducted by fairies as a child...spooky.

[@mon_moi]

Do you know any online resources where i can read about Welsh folklore? I know the Mabinogi is translated online but I need like just the folklore and fairy tales

[@Glennstevenson822]

It’s so refreshing seeing someone presenting in lovely natural locations like this. What might be of interest to you is that even to this day in very rural Ireland, farmers often don’t disturb the remains of old ‘raths’ (a type of hill fort) on their land out of superstition that the fairies live there and would curse them if they do. They’d be seen more like Mister Mxyzptlk from superman in such circles though, rather than like elves or tinkerbell.

[@Wombatmetal]

My favorite elf stories as a kid was Puck of Pook's Hill by Rudyard Kipling. Loved Kipling as a child. Really surprised that you did not note Tolkien wrote about Christmas Elves before he wrote LOTR. Every year Father Christmas wrote a letter to Tolkien's kids telling tales of the events of the North Pole, with elves and goblins, and a clumsy Great North Polar Bear. Which is where the Elvish language came from. I had a book, Letters from Father Christmas, many years ago.

[@joelpartee594]

I love Letters from Father Christmas, not least for Tolkien's charming illustrations. I'm pretty sure, though, that he had already been writing about Elves like Luthien Tinuviel and Beleg Strongbow (and their languages) for years before his kids were born.

[@MartinHobbsActor]

I came here to mention this. I still have the book on my shelves. I’ve ‘helped’ Santa for many years and I draw on Tolkien’s letters to furnish his backstory. Sometimes I get a child that wants shoes for Christmas, and I like to remind them that Santa’s elves used to make shoes before they came to work for him and so they will be the very best.

[@frankvandorp2059]

In the Netherlands when I grew up, the word "elfen" (elves) was used mostly for the winged creatures we usually call faeries, I remember being confused when my mother first started reading the Hobbit to me as a child and I figured out halfway through the book that these were actually big, human-sized creatures and couldn't fly. Sometimes I also wonder what kind of difference it would have made to the genre of fantasy if Tolkien had decided to stick with his original term "gnomes" for the Noldor.

[@tarvoc746]

"How can one word - elf - describe two entirely different creatures?" - Just wait till you get to "kobold".

[@williampalmer8052]

Nicely done! Your hard work is always appreciated. You did a good job laying out a clear and easy to understand outline of the history of Elves throughout Western history and literature. I always like to include Lord Dunsany as well, especially his book "The King of Elfland's Daughter," which is an early example of the inherent tragedy of romance between mortals and Elves, a favored subject of Tolkien's as well.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Thats a great example! Thank you for watching and saying nice things!

[@hapennysparrow]

The fantasy author Tad Williams, wrote a superlative series called " Sorrow, Thorn, and Memory." He introduces the Sithi, which is another version of elves. Some are good. Others are evil. The books are well written, detailed, and fascinating. As a lover of well written fantasy, Tad Williams is a favorite. Another great fantasy writer is Patrick Rothfuss, except he has taken his own sweet time to bring his fans the last book of his King Killer trilogy. This is a fascinating program. Thank you.

[@joelpartee594]

I'm not familiar with Williams, but I assume that's a variant spelling of Sidhe (pronounced shee), an Irish word for elves or fairies.

[@jamesmaybrick2001]

@@joelpartee594 Basically. Sithi are the good elves plural, Sitha is singular. Norns are the bad elves (and there are other types). He lifts a lot of tolkein (in all the best ways) and puts into a more traditional medieval setting. Tad Williams that is.

[@ninja393]

Shoutout to the deer that clearly wanted to know more about the elves she's been dealing with.

[@davidmackey1922]

As an Irish person, thank you for pronouncing Irish myths accurately also great video

[@flavoredgrapes_]

I'm partial to the Keebler variety of elves... just kidding, I've always found the Dwemer from The Elder Scrolls very fascinating!

[@josephmayo3253]

That was my introduction to elves.

[@Fontoflife]

​@@josephmayo3253me too. Though Christmas elves especially in Rudolph, are a close second. Though these days highborn elves appeal to me more. Still I find myself dabbling in Pigwiggenry to an extent. (Sorry Tolkien.)

[@Fontoflife]

@@gurnsey1621 which is why I was say we need a whole new lexicon to differentiate all these different types of fantasy creatures. Elves should be the highborn dwellers of forests and cities. "Cobblers" should be used to denote dwarfish people in fantasy, and smaller sorts of a 'smurfish' stature should be called sprites or some other different names. That way you avoid the confusion.

[@waltzworth]

Elder Scrolls is my favorite game.

[@theevilascotcompany9255]

@@josephmayo3253 Keebler elves was my introduction to elves about 50 pounds ago.

[@claytonwestphal682]

A fairly recent depiction of elves I really liked is the elves in Hilda (graphic novel/ animated show) they are really tiny, very organized and invisible unless you fill out paperwork

[@JessWLStuart]

I love Tolkien's take on Elves, and it's my favorite. My favorite non-Tolkien elf quote is "I just want to be a dentist!" from Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer.

[@sanjivjhangiani3243]

I remember the line, "Let's be independent together!" 😊

[@metoo7557]

If you are talking about elves, a nod to Wendy and Richard Pini might not be out of place. They created a whole graphic world of them.

[@alephnull7007]

Love your work! Keep it up. One note: the ae in Anglo Saxon was the letter ash & made the short 'a' sound, so aelf would have been pronounced "alf." It's also where we get the name Alfred which meant "elf counsel." 😁

[@davidbrewer9030]

Very interesting. I think in the poem the Night Before Christmas, Santa was called an elf. Also, Tolkien probably read Lord Dunsany's works like The King of Elfland's Daughter, and Beyond the Fields We Know.

[@starkiller9897]

Stumbled across your delightful video by chance & was plesantly delighted in your boundless knowledge & how obviously passionate you are talking about elves & your ethereal beauty truely brightened up my day!! 😉 You really are a delight to watch my dear!!

[@kiplingslastcat]

My 89 year old dad calles you "That pretty hippy hobbit girl".

[@KarlKristofferJohnsson]

I find it interesting how the Swedish language seems to have tried to keep these different kinds of elves separate. - Tinkerbell style fairies are usually translated as "fé" (plural "féer") or "älva" (plural "älvor"). Älvor are also commonly seen in Swedish folklore post-Christianisation. Fairy circles are often called "älvring" (elf ring) or "älvdans" (elf dance), because it is believed that the elves dance there. - Christmas elves have kept (or combined) the names of their older Nordic predecessors and are usually called "tomtenisse" (plural "tomtenissar") while Santa Claus in Swedish is called "Jultomten" ("The Yule Tomte"). - Tolkien's elves (and later elves inspired by Tolkien) are called "alv" (plural "alver"). This word can sometimes be used as a modernised form of the "alf" (plural "alfar") of Norse mythology, but often we just stick to "alf"/"alfar" when referring to those.

[@AnotherDuck]

To add a bit, the other type of "älvor", the creatures dancing on rivers and meadows, are usually distinct from the smaller "féer". "Älvor" are more human-sized and sometimes try to entice humans into the water where they'll drown. They're usually depicted as mist-like creatures. Also, the word for river in Swedish is "älv", or "elf" in older Swedish, which is probably related to them, but not to the words for other elf like "alv/alf".

[@KarlKristofferJohnsson]

@AnotherDuck I think that difference depends on who you ask, though. I have heard people use "älva" and "fé" interchangeably. That doesn't mean they're correct in doing so, but it does signal more of a blurred line than the other categories. Nobody would refer to Legolas as a "tomte" or Santa Claus as an "älva". Also, I'm pretty sure the words "alv", "alf", and "älva" (as well as the English word "elf") all share a common origin. So, "älv" (meaning a big river) is technically related to all of them.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@KarlKristofferJohnsson What I meant with "the other type" was that the word "älva" is used for two different creatures. First the smaller ones we also call "féer", or fairies, and second the larger ones which are more fey-like; the misty ones.

[@KarlKristofferJohnsson]

@AnotherDuck Right, but that still shows a lack of a clear boundary between the two terms, if "älva" can be used for both. And to confuse things even further, fairies such as Cinderella's Fairy Godmother and the Blue Fairy from Pinocchio are usually called "fe", even though they're human-sized.

[@HS-su3cf]

Santa's workshop is actually the Halls of Mandos. So now we know what Fëanor is doing. More seriously though, the similarities between Germanic and Celtic "elves" might stem from a common Indo-European background. The Scandinavian Nisse/Tomte are usually given a bowl of porridge as payment, at Christmas-eve, placed in the barn. In Norway this sort of usually helpful nisse is called a "Fjøsnisse" (Barnnisse). The Nisse is mostly helpful, but might prank people sometimes. Unless insulted. Then he can be mean and do damage, like hiding stuff or more seriously harming or killing livestock. If you fall out with your nisse, and decide to move, he might follow you to continue the punishment for your transgression. It is hypothesised that the belief in the nisse might be a remnant of ancestor-worship, and that the nisse actually is the spirit of the farms original founder. We have more of these creatures in Scandinavia. Often called "Underjordiske" (Subterranean) or "Vetter".

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

I think there’s a story to be told about how Tolkien’s elves left Tolkien’s writing and entered the wider culture. To my estimation this happened through video games and Dungeons and Dragons, and didn’t really occur until Tolkien’s works were rediscovered by young people in the 60s.

[@Pengalen]

Elves = Alfar = Daoine Sidhe = Tuatha de Danaan ( and maybe Aelfs) Christmas Elves = Gnomes = Tomte = Nisse = Brownies = Leprechauns (and maybe kobolds)

[@jasonfisher693]

The ElfQuest graphic novels are amazing. These elves will always be what I think of first when I hear “Elf”

[@cpegg5840]

Finarfin is the most based of Tolkien's Elves; obedient to the Valar, no conflict with his children, repentant, and embodying the best parts of his father Finwe. Feanor was too selfish as obsessive, and Fingolfin rather over-proud. Be like Finarfin. Also he begot Galadriel so how can you not appreciate him?

[@MartinHobbsActor]

Thanks for your video. Well researched and delivered. I’ve always loved Tolkien’s elves, their story is so bittersweet, with the short story of Arwen’s demise the saddest of them all. But I’ve never seen them as having pointy ears, nor being more slight than humans. There is this weird association that popular culture has between seeing wisdom and kindness synonymous with physical frailty, which is only a problem because of ingrained views on strength and power being masculine and wisdom and kindness not being so.

[@TheSuperhomosapien]

"...so either I am now officially a Disney Princess....or...she's going to maul me to death." Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[@balrog7252]

PART 1 Greetings from Poland For some time I was wondering whether to write something to you, I thought "she probably won't read it anyway and I will write in vain", but finally I thought "I have to write something because I can't leave it without a comment". I hope you will not be put off by the length of this text, but you will read it carefully and refer to it somehow. Give him 20 minutes of your precious time. Over 30 years Tolkien is the most important thing in my life when it comes to any field of culture and I'm always happy when I come across a new thing related to it. I recently came across your channel. I was happy and thought that it is always nice to listen to people who also appreciate the Professor and his work. I watched some of your videos and didn't learn anything new about the writer's work or life, some of your thoughts are accurate, some are superficial, but that's not the worst. When I started watching your videos on rings of power (lowercase spelling intentional), I began to scratch my head and not believe my ears. You really wanted to know in the comments whether we agree with your opinion about rings of power, so here you go, here's a monstrous text in which I explained my opinion on this subject as accurately as I could. First a question. Why did you become interested in Tolkien and his works? What made you start a channel about it? We are interested in many things in our lives, but we do not create a KZbin channel for every topic we are interested in. Probably something in the world created by the Professor must have fascinated you. The world created by the writer is unique and one of a kind. Why do you think that is? You will probably agree with me that the main reason is that the world he created impresses with its vastness, but also with details that work together perfectly. Tolkien actually wrote and rewrote The Silmarillion throughout his adult life, that is, several decades. Over the years, he had been putting together a precise mosaic of events and characters, from which if even the smallest element is replaced or removed, everything will start to fall apart. In his essay on Fairy Tales, Tolkien clearly wrote that if novels with imaginary worlds are to be enjoyed, they must feel 100% authentic and realistic, the reader must have the impression all the time that what he is reading could have happened somewhere and sometime. This coherence of the created world is, in my opinion, one of the two main reasons why The Silmarillion is the greatest story ever written by man. The second reason is a spare and almost chronicle style of Tolkien's prose, which gives the reader a lot of scope for imagination. It's hard to find two people who will identically imagine the Music of the Ainur, the creation of the two Trees, the birth of the Elves, the creation and appearance of the Silmarils, the duel of Fingolfin with Morgoth, the War of Wrath, and especially the duel of Earendil with Ancalagon the Black. All these events stimulate the reader's imagination and this is the greatest joy and reward that the reader gets after reading this book. The greatest advantage of The Silmarillion, i.e. the field for imagination, is its greatest difficulty in any adaptation. A book, any book, gives the greatest scope for imagination, but a movie or a series deprives the viewer of any possibility of imagination. Every person watching a movie or series sees exactly the same images, shots, scenes. Cinema just kills the imagination. And that's why The Silmarillion is such an extremely difficult novel to adapt. An artist who wants to transfer The Silmarillion to the screen must face a very difficult, even impossible task. He has to create a series that will be at least for the majority of viewers in line with their idea of this world. I will now venture to say that such a creator would have to be a genius like Tolkien. He must have three qualities that will make such a series have any chance of success. He must UNDERSTAND, RESPECT and LOVE the world created by the writer. And he certainly cannot CHANGE ANYTHING in the canons of this world and the laws that govern it, because (I will repeat it again) that would destroy the perfect coherence of this world. And here we come to something that was probably supposed to be a TV series, but it is not, it is rather a corporate product, i.e. rings of power. This product can be assessed in two different categories: based on Tolkien's prose, or a product about a fantastic world that has nothing to do with the professor's work. In both of these cases the series miserably fails. Just a little note. This product is not an adaptation of The Silmarillion itself, but the additions included in The Return of the King (more precisely, it was supposed to be like that in Amazon's plans), but since the story in this product takes place in the second era, and the Silmarillion also describes this era, I think I have the right to compare it to The Silmarillion. Let's start with the fact that when I heard that a series will be created in the world of Middle-earth, I was very happy. But as time passed, my joy diminished and my anxiety increased. At first I was still full of hope. The creators had talented screenwriters, including those writing the script for Breaking Bad - the best series in television history, they had Tom Shippey, a well-known Tolkienist, who was supposed to ensure that the product was compatible with the world created by Tolkien. Everything seemed to be going in the right direction, but in January 2020, Christopher Tolkien dies. And suddenly, a few months after his death, amazon fires the writers, fires Tom Shippey, and starts all over again, with political correctness and cultural diversity as the main theme. It is intended to be right indeed, but not in movies or series that turn the world created by its creator upside down. The main culprits of the whole project are two showrunners, whose names I will not mention out of pity. When I heard them boasting at every turn that they had written the greatest story Tolkien had not written, I literally felt as if they had spit in my face (and probably not only mine but also millions of true fans of the Professor's work) and then trampled his books. Who are they to think so highly of themselves? If they had really created something like this, they would have been known long before they started working on this product, and the truth is that no one had heard of them before. We can add to this the lies of the actors in interviews, including Sophia Nomvete, who replied to almost every question how proud she was to be the first female dwarf in adaptations of Tolkien's prose. The unfortunate lady should be made aware after the first such answer that dwarf women appeared in Peter Jackson's The Hobbit, and in the amount of several. The showrunners showed at every step what experts of Tolkien's works they were. The truth turned out at the comic-con in 2022. Stephen Colbert, who is actually a fan of the Professor's works, began to ask them questions about the knowledge of the world of Middle-earth and I have to to say it was a great comedy, but in the end I thought to myself: "Stephen stop embarrassing them, don't torture them anymore, they will embarrass themselves once the product is released on amazon". And I was right. Now - warning - there will be some SPOILERS, hope you watched all the episodes. Let's start by evaluating this product as an adaptation of Tolkien's prose. This "adaptation" has only one thing in common with Tolkien's prose: the names of the main characters and the names of the lands. The rest is profanation of this work and terrible fanfic turning this world upside down and destroying this world not only in details, but also in canons. The worst idea of the showrunners is the story of the origin of mithril and its connection to the life and death of the Elves. In the books, there is no connection between the mithrill and the life or death of the Elves. Tolkien describes mithrill as a rare but natural resource found in Khazad Dum, but also in Númenor. But of course for our "great" showrunners this is too simple, they had to dramatize it properly. And they figured that the Elves would die without mithril. This is the denial of one of the most important foundations (if not the most important) of Tolkien's world. Elves are immortal and humans are mortal. This is the basis of all mythology and the difference between elves and men. And it was the jealousy of the Númenóreans for the immortality of the Elves that led to Númenor's downfall. Someone who does not understand this and changes it, absolutely should not put in the credits of the product that it is based on Tolkien's works, because it is a complete contradiction of the world invented by the Professor and has absolutely nothing to do with Middle-earth. Tolkien's grandiose, almost romantic, idea of the Elves remaining on Arda as long as Arda exists, their reincarnation after death preceded by being in the Halls of Mandos, their choice of whether to return to Arda again or wander around as an unseen ghost for the rest of their days has been forfeited and profaned by this thoughtless idea that totally shallows the depth of the sense of the existence of the Elves created by the Professor.

[@martineldritch]

Great video ! I enjoy the elf lore that has found its way into the European folk music tradition. It seems there was a period where the darkest direst deeds of humanity were attributed to elves. They became bogeymen in song and story. The song "The Elf Knight" as performed by the Steeleye Span comes to mind. I like to think that Tolkien called it right when he wrote that any darkness a human encounters in Elf land is that which they themselves brought in with them. The word "eldritch" is derived from the Middle English that means Elfland (elf-riche). Thank you and blessed be.

[@thedudeabides3138]

I love the fact that a beautiful Elf is asking the question as to whether or not Tolkien invented her.

[@Daneypastry]

I'm Scandinavian so I wanna add some clarity around the words we use for elves in Denmark for anyone who's curious. There's "nisse" which you mentioned. House spirits that look like tiny men, who treat you well if you treat them well. During December it's normal here to leave a bowl of the winter dish "risengrød" by the fireplace or the attic for the nisse to eat, and in return he will bring you gifts. If you forget, he will bring mischief (older tales is like... he'll burn down your farm or kill your animals). So very similar to Christmas elves, except with more violence lol. Then we have the word "elver" which describes something more akin to the Tolkien kind of elf. Add more violence, though. Their thing is to trick you into dancing with them until you die from exhaustion. It's also said they have "hollow backs", which could either be interpreted as their backs arching a lot, or that their spine sorta leaves a hollow between the back muscles. Most old art I've seen of them here depicts them dancing in the nude. Honestly they were probably a cautionary tale about temptation. Lastly we've got the "alf", which is more the classic Tinkerbell fairy. I don't really know lots about these guys. I think they're flightless in some tales, while having wings in others, and they're super tiny. Some stories convey them as being elemental spirits too.

[@michaeltelson9798]

There is a broad difference in folk lore on elves. I am a fan of both Terry Pratchett’s Discworld and the folk rock band Steeleye Span (including Maddy Prior’s other works). There were many songs about elves and their enchanting humans to kidnap them. Some of these are “Tam Lin”, “Thomas the Rhymer” and “Dance With Me”. There are Christian influences in the songs as the elves are always in league with the devil. They stole babies, etc. Pratchett included that in his view of elves as they live in a shadow world entered by breaks between the worlds. They appear mostly in his “Tiffany Aching” books of Discworld. Gnomes and brownies are also included as separate beings.

[@paulthompson3304]

Lords and ladies is a good one.

[@steelshanks1265]

A gorgeous woman talking Myths, Folk Lore, and Tolkien... Yep, I'm sold...

[@johnwalters1341]

At around 17:20, you discuss the idea of the Elves gradually fading away. I'm reminded of Galadriel's words to Frodo in Lothlorien: "Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us is as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlorien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten."

[@gracemember101]

The elves in The Hobbit seem to be of the silly variety, which sets them apart from the serious elves in LOTR. My guess is they weren't quite "set" in Tolkien's mind either.

[@stephenpeterson7940]

Hi, Jess. As someone for whom Tolkien has been a fascination since the '60s, I continue to marvel at your powerful grasp of the Legendarium and Tolkien's related sources of inspiration for his tales. Very well done.

[@aelfredrex8354]

As a scholar of the Anglo-Saxons, the word "elf" would have been a constant in Tolkien's academic world. The name Aelfred translates as "wise elf" or "elf-counsel".

[@martineldritch]

Thank you, didn't know that. So the name "Gandalf" may have some root origin with elves as well ?

[@AnotherDuck]

@@martineldritch You might've looked it up by now, but the name "Gandalf" means "wand elf", so in that regard it has the same origin (the latter part, obviously). "Gandalf" was also the name of a dwarf in Norse mythology. While not certain, the dwarves of Norse mythology might've been the same as the black elves and dark elves. It's is a bit unclear there, since records are a bit lacking. In other words, "Gandalf" is a dwarf name and dwarves are a type of elves, so the name is indeed connected to elves from a mythological perspective aside from the etymological connection.

[@martineldritch]

@@AnotherDuck Yes, I found "wand elf" the other day, thank you for the additional history. I just read that Gandalf was "Olorin" in Valinor, "Mithrandir" to the elves and in Gondor, "Incanus" to the Haradrim, and to the dwarves he was "Tharkun", "Staff man". To the Harvard Lampoon he was "Goodgolf" but I think this name may be suspect. I think "Gandalf" is his name in Eriador and a name he prefers due to his fondness for the Shire ?

[@LandELiberation]

Fun fact the medical term 'stroke' comes from the idea that you have been elf struck, their invisible Spears and arrows were also credited till early modern England with stitches and other random stabbing pains

[@hansbrackhaus3307]

I quite like Dark elf’s from elder scrolls, i think they have the most interesting lore. Like the great houses, the tribunal and so forth.

[@Csizzorhandz]

I’d be interested to know what artists first depicted elves with pointed ears. They have become such an indispensable part of the elf image that all adaptations and artworks of Tolkien’s elves are given pointed ears, even though Tolkien never specified ear shape in his descriptions of them.

[@_volder]

That comes from centuries of common depictions of "woodland/wild" creatures like fauns and Puck and fairies with butterfly/dragonfly wings, which had various animal traits to show that they were more a part of nature than just plain humans are. When the "nature" aspect started getting toned down & faded out in elves, pointy (but otherwise human) ears were just the last bit left over to show any kind of difference from humans at all. Fauns & Puck were a Medieval holdover from Greek mythology, which gave us not only them & Pan & Medussa & satyrs & centaurs but also animal-animal combinations like griffins/gryphons, manticores, and chimeras. But the Greeks were also preserving their version of something older. Egyptians, of course, waffled between depicting gods as looking like animals or humans or humans with different animals' heads, but the Greek tradition probably owes more to the Babylonians, because that's where else animal traits represent animalistic behavior, and it's where else you're more likely to find human heads & faces & torsos & arms but animal horns & ears & legs & tails. That far back in history & prehistory, most land was still occupied by nomads & hunter-gatherers, and recorded mythology from that time sometimes focuses on the difference between those people out there in the wild land and us normal people here in our cities & farms. Stories would juxtapose the civilized & wild lifestyles & environments, sometimes by pairing up a civilized character and a wild character in some way, and part of how the wild character's wildness was shown & emphasized was with animal parts. In the most famous example, the king of the greatest city, Gilgamesh, teamed up with his new best buddy, Enkidu, a wild man with a bull's legs & tail & ears & horns. And the Bible gives us twins with one (Jacob) looking normal & staying on the family farm and the other (Esau) being covered in fur & leaving to live off the land. Tolkien lived in a world where, because of that long chain of ideas leading to the partial de-animal-izing of traditional imagery of fauns/Puck, he didn't need to say that his vaguely magical almost-human-but-not-quite species had pointy ears; they'd be imagined that way anyway unless he specified otherwise. (And even if he had done that, people might have ignored him and put pointy ears on them anyway because that's just what those kinds of critters were supposed to be like.) Also, although his published stories never mentioned what Elves' ears looked like, I'm not sure his unpublished personal notes didn't, and they did at least describe Hobbits has having Elf-like ears, which has to mean he imagined that there was something different about Elf ears to compare with. He also doesn't seem to have drawn Elves himself as far as I can tell, but did do at least one sketch of a Hobbit, in which the ears look pointy to me but also strangely small for pointy ears, so you could argue that the points are an illusion created by hair partially covering them.

[@KimGibsonfiberlover]

Great piece and wonderfully presented. The only thing I truly missed amongst the many bits not able to be included (well, maybe the Menehune too) it the happy fact that Tolkien changed the words Elfs and Dwarfs to Elves and Dwarves single handedly! Well done!

[@needleknight]

Was surprised Tolkien’s elves from Letters from Father Christmas weren’t brought up here

[@ShermanWilliamsVideo]

Elf Quest comics was my introduction to Elves. Those elves were tough as nails

[@robinpohland3476]

My newsfeed just came up with this video and I want to thank you for the summery of this rather complex topic. Researching this must have taken a while. And despite the troubles while recording, I really appreciate your style of videomaking. It is honest, natural and well done all in all. Thanks for explaining =)

[@conorquinn607]

The elves in Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword are a force to reckoned with. The Ballantine Adult Fantasy series has other books with other takes on them worth looking at.

[@joncarroll2040]

Broken Sword is also interesting because it was released in the same year as Fellowship of the Ring, long before most of what Tolkien wrote was seen by anyone outside of his circle.

[@hrothgleas1]

Wondered if someone had beaten me to this... The Broken Sword is my favorite non-Tolkien book with elves (and trolls, the White Christ , and Norse gods...) Anderson discussed the differences between his elves and Tolkien's in an introduction that's well worth reading... It's pretty dark, but suited me perfectly as a teen who viewed the world in black and white. I agree with the older Poul Anderson, who said his later book, Three Hearts and Three Lions was more his speed...

[@alfredvanzant9422]

The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions have, indirectly, had a significant impact on Fantasy. They were a major influence on Dungeons & Dragons, and on Michael Moorcock, who in turn was a major influence on Warhammer. While Tolkien is certainly the main source for the popular image of Elves I think there's more Anderson in there than people realise.

[@erikaatayde8919]

To me fairies are the living idea inside of things, such as grasses, the wind, birds, raindrops, flakes of snow, not unlike the kami and the anima, but not necessarily "a soul". Elfs used to be that and ended up being their own thing, like people who once were grass, mushrooms, trees, rocks, whirlwinds.

[@NewAge374]

In the Netherlands Christmas is not such a big deal so elfs working for Santa was not part of the myth/feast. This meant my first encounter with elves was through Tolkien (well Peter Jackson before I read the books). I cannot shake away that portrayal and I feel both creators have helped with visualising them in my head. However, what I think is the most fascinating thing in Tolkien's legendarium is that there are so many stories and characters that give his elves agency, that it is hard to generalise them as a race. Let alone the different groups depending on how far they travelled, some morally clearheaded characters have awful siblings, while some do go through some character arc (even if it takes thousands of years). Btw, I love the outdoor settings for these videos, very calming until you mentioned the lawnmower :)

[@TheAyeAye1]

One of the funnier radio skits I've heard was about a family of Christmas elves with a teenager who wants to be a LOTRS elf.

[@thomriley1036]

Your mention of Lilith in the ever-evolving elven lore brings me to my favorite pop-culture sub group: The wicked Drow of old-school Dungeons & Dragons. The Monster Manual ominously gaslights you by explaining that the Drow do not exist, but they do appear in the classic adventure modules G1-G3 "Against the Giants" and D1-D3 "Descent into the Depths of the Earth". They can be seen as children of a black widow spider demoness named "Lolth" and have modeled their underground society on her worship. In the climax of this whole adventure arc, Q1 "Queen of the Demonweb Pits", players can actually visit the strange faerie realm of another treacherous elfin race called The Pharisees, which is a direct nod to author Poul Anderson's 1961 novel "Three Hearts & Three Lions." This novel includes many of the inspirations for the monsters in Dungeons & Dragons that creator Gary Gygax and the T.S.R. gang borrowed heavily from: including the regenerating green Troll, the shape-shifting Swanmay and much of the Good/Neutral/Evil/Law/Chaos Alignment system used in the game. You can also see Lolth in action in the 1980's D&D Saturday Morning Cartoon Show: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHKqhmmsqa9_iJo The look of Lolth her Drow minions went on to inspire many other iterations of "Dark Elves" in later fantasy series: The Dunmer of Elder Scrolls, The Teir'Dal of EverQuest and Pirotess from The Record of Lodoss War, just to name a few. The Spider Monster aspect of "Stranger Things" as well as one character's fixation on Black Widows seems to be telegraphing Drow vibes as well. (Foreshadowing?)

[@GleeChan]

What is kinda cool (and sucks at the same time) is that everyone else decided to copy Tolkien's homework when creating their own fantasy realms.

[@DogWalkerBill]

When I was young, my parents bought an encyclopedia set that included stories & drawings of Brownies. Never heard of them before, or since. They were a cute, little people. But apparently the idea for Brownie Scouts came from somewhere.

[@jhurshman]

Beyond the Tolkienian and Christmas varieties, another interesting modern take on elves/fairies is in Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. The "gentleman with the thistle-down hair" is enormously powerful, lives in Faerie, and is closely tied to the powers of nature. He is dangerous, not because he is evil (I'd say he's neither good nor evil), but because he is deeply inhuman and amoral. (The book is wonderful and everyone should read it.)

[@matthewspeedy]

Another banger! You've quickly become my favorite KZbinr who goes over Tolkien. I've been obsessed with his legendarium and the sources he drew inspiration from ever since I first picked up the Hobbit when I was 7 or 8. Thank you for making such informative videos!

[@coreysudduth8167]

You’ve done such a comprehensive job on this. When you introduced the nisse I was expecting brownies but pleasantly surprised to learn a new version of these Indo-European tiny folk. The woodland background was the right choice. For the record, pretty sure that deer was there to approve of your content as a messenger of the sidhe, not maul you 😊

[@RedSpade37]

I was like "Woo, outside! Why don't more content-creators create their videos outside like this?" But now I think we know. There's only so much control you can have over the elements. Either way, I enjoyed this, and would like to see more!

[@craigsurette3438]

One of the earliest pre Christian depictions of Elfs in AngloSaxon lore, is from a poetic magical/medical text called Lacugna, that preserves a charm used against "Elf-Shot" which was a kind of sudden sickness thought to be caused by the Elfs. Folklore in England preserved the tradition , where the Neolithic stone arrowheads found in farmer's fields, were thought to be the remains of these magical Elf Shot arrows

[@pendragon2012]

I've always liked the idea that Santa's elves are just a lower class of the same being. But Tolkien's elves are the OG for sure! One thing that got missed when the books moved to film was the how they somehow manage to straddle being serious badasses and being lighthearted jokesters. The elves in The Hobbit are more aligned that way but even in LOTR they come off as pretty funny.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I love the humor of Tolkien's elves! I'm not sure it would have fit in the PJ films, but it's such a delightful dimension in the books

[@pendragon2012]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire Every time I read one of Tolkien's descriptions of the elves (ageless, dark wavy hair, clear gray eyes, yet somehow containing both wisdom and sorrow) you realize just how difficult they would be to cast!

[@hopefulhyena3400]

As a big d&d fan it really is interesting to look at elves through each edition and see how they have changed. The elves of early d&d are almost exactly just tolkien elves, and that was done on purpose, and then over each edition minor changes as more authors and designers influence them add up to the point where I'm not sure if Legolas would recognize the modern d&d elf as anything more than some sort of estranged cousin.

[@youraveragegamer4604]

Swede here, and here’s a few fun facts about the Scandinavian elves: tomtar and nissar (the plurals of tomte and nisse) are mostly referred to as tomtenissar nowadays. They’re also quite popular with kids, who dress up as them on special occasions during Christmas, and many Christmas songs also mention them.

[@SonofSethoitae]

And moving past Tolkien, one of the biggest influences on modern depictions of elves is Poul Anderson, especially through his influence on D&D. His books "The Broken Sword" and "Three Hearts and Three Lions" in particular.

[@djaskfjkasd]

Julian Mays Pliocene Saga is still a pretty unique take on the source of elves and fairys, and a pretty exciting read overall

[@numberg8238]

Tanu and Fivurlag. One of my favourite authors

[@Pingwn]

I hate it when people say that Tolkien simply took took his elves from the older myths and folklore. He did take inspiration primarily from the old stories of elves and fairy folks but those creatures used to be way more diverse in form, morally ambiguous and inhuman in their behavior. While he took inspiration from myths and legends he shaped them with his own ideas, making them much more specific, good and defined.

[@jkubuz]

Congrats on getting 40k subs! I firmly believe by the quality of your videos your channel exploding into popularity was inevitable. I myself found your channel through the Tom Bombadil video, but have watched some of your earlier stuff too and it's all top notch.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I'm so glad you're enjoying my videos!

[@artzpops]

I grew up in Germany as a child (I'm american and my dad was stationed there). I remember the fantasy elements of that culture in the 70's. Later I descovered "The Hobbit" and fell in love with elves and the like.

[@BrettCaton]

I would say Tolkien invented the modern version, same with dwarves, so that it is hard work for a fantasy writer to avoid them. Most tabletop RPGs of the seventies just copied and pasted that archetype. DND had moved away but seems to be drifting back.

[@SmoMan71]

I know this is an older video, but I just found this channel and I have been binge watching. I think modern DnD has done a fair job of differentiating between Tolkien’s elves and silly little elves in pointed hats. The taller, more beautiful, more regal ones are Elves. The shorter, more mischievous ones in pointed little hats are Gnomes. An Elf wouldn’t be caught dead working in a workshop making toys. A Gnome would consider it a life well lived. Both come from the land of Fey realm.

[@nedphillips-jones4611]

A potential clue: the old Celtic (Brythonic) Kingdom of Elmet was located in present day Yorkshire. It eventually became isolated, disconnected from the other Celtic territories of Wales, and what the Welsh call the "Old North" or "Hen Ogledd" which spanned into southern Scotland. The potentially relevant detail here is that the Welsh name for the Kingdom of Elmet is "Elfed" which is pronounced EL-VED. The obvious likeness between this and the words such as "elven" and "elves" is perhaps worth investigating. Sometimes things are attributed to Anglo Saxon while overlooking a different origin, one more deeply indigenous to Britain.

[@fnansjy456]

Elf is a germanic word not celtic and as nothing to do with Elmet

[@nedphillips-jones4611]

@fnansjy456 I think you're likely to be correct. However when there is an apparent Brythonic phonetic match, and we know instances where Germanic and Celtic cultures overlapped and fused into one another (an example being Belgium), and that they descend from the same language family, and I atleast do not know the etymology of the name Elfed... based on these aspects I personally lack certainty about the answer to this question.

[@nedphillips-jones4611]

@fnansjy456 another related point of Brythonic etymological interest are two old Welsh names (the letter F is pronounced as V, FF is probouced as the Englsih F): Elfys, and Elffin mentioned by the bard Taliesin. Perhaps they derive of a Germanic root...but if so what is with the name Elfed? I wonder if it is mere phonetic coincidence. Time to talk with a professor of Old Welsh.

[@mattb3793]

It's hard to forget the warcraft elves. The 2 varieties are both rather interesting lore wise. Also the hidden people stories of Iceland that my grandmother told me of still makes me smile.

[@Grizzlox]

The only thing more difficult than finding detailed and complete works of original Scandinavian and Celtic folklore is filming outdoors.

[@valmarsiglia]

I always found it interesting how it turns up in the name Alfred, literally "elf counsel," presumably meaning something like "wise like an elf," as well as now-obsolete Anglo-Saxon names like Aelfhelm ("elf helmet") and Aelfgifu ("gift of the elves").

[@Mordred478]

I learned a lot. Previously, I had thought elves a part of Finnish mythology, but not known of the other cultures where they have stuck their little heads up. You are a true scholar. For someone to delve as deep as you have, and for so long, into Tolkien, whom one would have thought covered to death at this point, is quite an accomplishment. And yes, Tolkien's feelings about modernity, his objection not only to Man's stultifying rationale but to the encroachment of industry into the natural world, was made plain by his portrayal of Saruman turning his environment into a fiery wasteland.

[@lauramartens30]

One story that this video made me think of is An Enchantment of Ravens by Margaret Rogerson. The book is YA, and stylistically very far from Tolkien, but I LOVED its portrayal of the fair folk (a term that Tolkien uses to describe his Elves many times throughout the books). In this modern YA novel, the 'fairies' are life sized creatures who wear elaborate glamours in order to appear beautiful; they can work magic and are very powerful; they are strongly aligned with nature (living in Courts based off of the seasons-- reminds me of how Rivendell is somewhat associated with autumn while Lothlorien has an air of eternal summer with the golden leaves in winter); however amidst all of these similarities to the ethereal and almost angelic Tolkien Elves, Rogerson's fair folk lack morality and the ability to Craft (which lies solely with the human characters). The fair folk seem perfect, but like many otherwordly creatures out of the British Isles, their beauty hides conceit and danger. When the main character is finally able to look past the glamours, she sees disgustingly rotted food in place of the grand feast and hideous tree-like creatures draped in tattered cloth that once were fine silks. I thought that this approach to fairies/elves was more riveting than Tolkien's nearly perfect creations; the influence from mythology and folk tales was present in both texts, but I think Tolkien adopted the more Christian/Catholic roles of angels and saints for his elves, while Rogerson pulled from the Celtic stories that Tolkien claimed he disliked. THIS (in my opinion) is the reason why he might not have used (or believed he was using at any rate) Celtic mythologies-- because the beautiful, otherworldly creatures in these stories are often destructive and malevolent towards humans, representing the darker side of nature that does not have the human power of Craft. "[Humans] are like a living rose among wax flowers. We [Fair Folk] may last forever, but you bloom brighter and smell sweeter, and draw blood with your thorns."

[@LordFargothUr]

As a die hard elf simp, my favorite varieties of elf in fantasy are: Elder Scrolls Dunmer Tolkien’s Noldor Warhammer Fantasy’s Asur and Asrai

[@cynthieful]

Loved the outdoor fillming. I'm from Finland and as a child my parents told me to watch out for the sauna elf, in a teasing manner. It's a traditional Finnish type of elf (we have many different kinds) that is the spirit of the house and especially likes to stay in the sauna. During Christmas you should leave porridge for it, and overall behave nicely in the sauna not to upset the elf or it might do tricks in the house.