Did Winspace win the frame game?

[@sabamacx]

The typical asian body proportion is tall torso and short legs --- so when they extrapolate frame geometry to larger western sizes, they stay long and low. Combined with most frame sizes finishing at an xl/xxl (in reality a "56"), they just don't have accommodations for taller riders.

[@petesjk]

I would say that Asia is their target market, and I’m guessing their geometries are for a relatively more regional market. That said, it can’t be that hard to produce different versions for different markets. In my mind, at these prices there isn’t much value incentive. These are no longer cheap enough to indulge curiosity. I would rather have a demo that I could borrow than dedicate and commit this level of money and time. At $2000 there are lots of frames available.

[@nomadcarpenter8549]

I concur regarding the headtube length, its the main reason i haven't tried a Chinese frame. Id be on the size down and be happy with the head tube yours had.

[@kadenlindsey358]

I would agree that the largest sizes in most of the frames are too small/too low. I'm 6'5 (195 ish) and the search for a dtc chinese frame has been a pain... most don't even go to a 58 let alone anything close to a 61. I ended up buying a frame that matches canyon's sizing on their grail frame so that was a win.

[@peteo3436]

💯

[@ovi-kernkraft400]

Agreed, I ended up with the latest Trek Madone in an XL, the stack and reach was the reason with it having a highish head tube

[@Dustydayzz]

i was the same nightmare for me

[@talonlan]

I like winspave and Elves and would consider them but they don't seem to make a frame big enough for a 6' + rider like me.

[@BikesKomsCRO]

6'5.. Here.. No chance mate.. Tried and wouldn't fit. Went for a 61cm sl7 s works for about 2£k used.. Basically new though!!

[@kailashblades]

my housemate completely rounded my front thru axle once- having the hex on the other side was a lifesaver +1 to the barrel nut seatpost clamp. Once you use one it's hard to go back. Some stems use them for the steerer clamp too.

[@jasperverkuijl]

Suuup dude. Good review. Looks like it’s solid. How is the BB and head tube stiffness? My SLC2.0 was quite flexy so wondering if that’s improved. Also about the sizing, I agree the naming is off. (XL vs L), but I think their main market is actually still domestic (Asia) and not “us” the western tall people. Asia market is booming right now on contrary to west. 🤙🏻

[@BKltd001]

Dam no 1 does bike reviews like this guy - full of solid technical info are u watching this bike media ?

[@klugeskind90]

Overall happy with my T1550 2nd gen. Had to sand the rear brake mounts though and not a huge fan of the seat post wedge

[@olo398]

rip chainstay paintjob. nice bike. hopefully winspace still keeps being humble. such an easy rec for bikes.

[@lolbubs11111]

For light 27.2 posts, I like the Specialized Alpinist -- not too expensive, mine was like 140 grams, and classic two bolt clamp style.

[@MrJaycobsen]

One of the best

[@robertwhyte3435]

As a last resort, if you can't get an axle out, you can drill out a hole in the axle big enough to glue an impact driver hex socket with JB weld or other really good epoxy. Then use an impact driver to remove the axle.

[@macht4turbo]

That seatpost clamp design is pretty much the aliexpress standard. You find some that are threaded right into the clamp, but those are bottom shelf even for aliexpress.

[@cup_and_cone]

9:32 - Someone at Winspace had some fun sanding the headset.

[@matthewsackman]

Need the Framework build vid!

[@myNamezMe]

When will any brand make a frame optimized for short cranks...

[@flexxx222]

@1:08 That a GarandThumb reference?

[@MaciejNaumienko]

Schola Gladiatoria probably

[@Dustydayzz]

i wanted winspace but the short seattube meant my Seatpost would be sticking out too much. my saddle height is 84.5 cm according to my previous bike fit but i have it at 83cm with 20mm offset seatpost. icanA9 frame fit me well. i could slam the stem too. its very similar to TAVELO in geo

[@dlee5312]

Agree about the geometry. I’m 184cm tall and haven’t purchased a frame because of the shorter stack.

[@rsmiii]

If you strip out the hex of an axle best bet is an easy out - a threaded "drill bit" that will bite into the hex hole and back out your axle. But if you do strip the threads on the female end, that's definitely another issue and you're proper f*cked.

[@seanmccuen6970]

just don't strip anything to begin with, ffs. problem solved.

[@Viamscience]

For sure this is a KZbin special. 10000%.

[@lolbubs11111]

If you want a loooooong frame -- my XL Stromm has stack and reach figures of 540 and 466 respectively. (It's mostly designed for running a riser stem unless you're hyper-flexible.)

[@PansRocks]

I liked the look of their previous frame the SLC, these frames with the lower seat stays just look wrong to me and I don't think I'll ever buy one, understand they stiffen up the rear a bit and possibly add some flex to the top of the seatpost for comfort but its the work of the devil in my opinion. Used the threaded bar press for years, too much wiggle from the coarse threads for these newer standards I've found however, def recommend a cheapo press off eBay/Amazon - that and the Topeak Saw Guide are two pieces of kit I'd def tell my younger self to buy without hesitation.

[@pierrex3226]

Very nice! With all your aero testing, how many watts is a round seatpost costing at c.35kmh (vs something aero shaped)? Do you have a sense of ballpark number? I'd also be tempted to ask the same question for an aero shaped down tube vs this one, but given how the SL8 doesn't look aero at all and yet is supposed to be, idk about that.

[@edmundas919]

Bikefitter refused to do bikefit on T1500 for me, because it was too long and too low. He said too many compromises would be needed and still wouldn't be as comfortable. Sitting position is aggressive, but I feel fine.

[@rogerbergua6268]

I got a Winspace SLC 2.0 (previous generation in rim brake) and the bike climbs like a dream!

[@PeakTorque]

I nearly bought one of them years and years ago but they didnt make my size. Seems they still don’t 😬

[@RyonBeachner]

On the topic of blind holes and dropout design, I noticed the new Dogma F has kept the threads as part of the dropout instead of bonding a metallic insert into the frame that can’t be replaced if damaged. Obviously a different end of the market, but it was surprising to me when I started looking around that other bikes with blind dropouts weren’t that way.

[@MAEBikr]

My issue is -SL8 Pro 5000 cdn, SL3 2500 cdn - Its hard to argue with the value proposition. Used SL6's cost more.

[@zazzleman]

Love my Winspace C5. Had a BMC Roadmachine 01 2018 and the Chinese brand kills it. Coupled with a Hambini BB and you would be amazed at the difference.

[@notjulesatall]

I would love to buy you a carbon mudguard if you ever make more of them!

[@fleurdelispens]

I did not have PT coming out in favor of Tange modular dropouts on my bingo card for the day, but here we are

[@pedalandchill]

Did you measure how much thread is purchased in the thru axle? I got the T1550 gen 2 and the axle only got 2 full revolutions before the axle bottoms out so maybe just 3mm in there. Compared to my other bikes, I got quite a few more revolutions. I am concerned if that is enough thread depth for long term safety. Granted the thru axle is not really an axle but just holding the wheel in place. Can you calculate how much torque is safe given the 3mm depth. Also the ledge holding the hub and supporting the weight esp on the fork is rather shallow in my opinion and as compared to my other bikes. What do you think?

[@FaiscaaaH]

Another great review from Mr. Peak torque 💪 I have a question, not regarding this video but one you did in the past, what's the tubeless liquid that you are using??

[@TESTA-CC]

Giant Propel Advanced Pro all day long 🤙🤙

[@porkyparry1]

Sheldon Browns love child😊

[@PeakTorque]

@@porkyparry1 a child from Sheldon but who is the mother?

[@johnnydho]

Nice review! Any chance you could look at the SEKA Spear as well? Seems like a somewhat pricy frame but people say the build quality is good. Also could you do an aero test/review of wavy wheelsets like the Light Bicycle Turbo wheels? Wondering if the aero/stability claims are accurate.

[@johndef5075]

Couldn't a stuck rounded thruaxle be removed with a drill and a bit designed to remove rounded fasteners?

[@pierrex3226]

Unless you've F'ed the thread, alu is soft, you can always botch something, but most bike shops are incompetent hipsters these days, so you'd have to be pretty resourceful to rig something. The general idea is that covering the other end is form over function because you removed redundancy

[@petef15]

Certainly won the paintjob game.

[@shankeong6753]

Agree on the geometry. I cannot understand why the stack heights for each size is so low compared to other frames. Granted that they have improved it for this generation of frames, but they are still too low.

[@william2788]

I completely agree about the geometry. Im 179 cm so not a giant and the stack, reach would be an issue for me as well and im using the most aggressive setting when doing myvelofit. I would need an 80 or 90mm stem on an XL depending on the bar reach.

[@martinkroutil]

Thanks for a review. I was looking at this frame Looks good, but you are right for tall person that stack height is for my fit basically unusable and that was a deal breaker for me.

[@PeakTorque]

No problem 👍

[@changliu3915]

Haha as far as I understand Tavelo is founded by former Winspace employees so this is probably a smart move by Winspace.

[@rwo5402]

What brand is the rear mudguard an the assembled winspace bike leaning against the fence?

[@truktronton88]

he made it himself using carbon. he has a video talking about it

[@08GH22]

what brand rear fender? pls

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

His own custom made 3D printed. He made a video about it

[@PeakTorque]

@@SamuelBlackMetalRiderthe mould was 3d printed but the fender is full carbon fibre epoxy! Weighs about 60g

[@08GH22]

cool thanks

[@CatManDoSocial]

Great stuff, mate. Looking at all of your bikes over the years, you seem to be exclusively on Shimano drivetrains. Is that an engineering choice or just personal preference? Is there something about SRAM that you think is inferior? I'm certain that people who watch this channel will have strong feelings but I'd like to know yours. Thanks!

[@jamesd5241]

Jesse is fuming at this

[@MrKipperfish]

Do us tall guys a favor and give us a toe overlap report? Interesting to note: Winspace references an XXL size on the C5 and T1550 pages, though they don't offer frames in that size.

[@PeakTorque]

No toe overlap 👍

[@fukairen9601]

Why we need internal cable routing on a non-aeroish round tube bike?

[@yonglingng5640]

It's sadly the norm for 2020s bikes.

[@davidlau2467]

Since when is a TCR (Giant) 'western'?

[@lolbubs11111]

Also - that frame is gorgeous. Love the colorway.

[@endercrafts9056]

I guess the sizing's because there aren't that many tall people in China.(Most of which went to play basket ball lol) And asian people tend to have shorter legs and longer torsos compared to western people.

[@andarenbici]

Looks great but it is too expensive for not having dealer support.

[@pigupigu]

Most countries have dealer support. What are u smoking

[@markj.a351]

There are like three dealers in the UK. And unlike other brands, general bike shops will be all snobby and turn you away if you want help with anything.

[@jkk916]

🤣Man, just admit to yourself that you don't want low-stack frames purely out of vanity🤣It is nothing wrong to have a chimney if it is not excessive. Low stack frame generally means more adjustment range and if you ask me, it even looks better than slammed trekking bike.

[@BestKiteboardingOfficial]

Tip to butt, for all my navy fans...

[@hcw199]

Peak torque says what I have been thinking for years.... These bikes are literally all the same. People like David Arthur saying he can tell the difference is just bs. He is talking crap.

[@kaseycarpenter73]

I've had a gravel G2 frame for years now, and it is just amazing for what I ride - best of gravel and road for me

[@derekhobbs1102]

Did Joe ever tell you why he left Winspace?

[@shaunbyrne9553]

I like the lower front end. I got a Yoeleo R11. Love it but a little squirrely at speed and toe overlap. Looked at sizing up but the top of the head tube was too high. Had to look to another brand for my next bike.

[@dimm__]

i for one really cannot stand the look of down sloping top tubes, compliance be damned

[@Leo-gt1bx]

Stupid dropped seat stays😂

[@petersouthernboy6327]

I am so past BB86.

[@swites]

If frame good no issues, Me 29,500km never creaks no issues still spinning freely :)

[@yonglingng5640]

​@@switesBB86 isn't optimal for cranksets with larger spindles (30 mm and DUB 28.99 mm) as the balls in the bearings are too small to be long-lasting.

[@swites]

@@yonglingng5640 Yeah they're designed for shimano 24mm spindles like mine which is why I have one:)

[@Aeroskiii]

Tldw; bike good, expensive

[@PeakTorque]

@@Aeroskiii this aint tik tok blud

[@Aeroskiii]

​@@PeakTorquewas right

[@andrewwoffinden8671]

how it is to ride compared to the tcr?

[@Aeroskiii]

@@andrewwoffinden8671 the same pretty much

[@n_cortex1319]

Looks like a Tarmac SL6 with integrated cables... Which is not a bad thing

[@borano2031]

You cannot ride that bike!! It´s not very aero and that is what counts!! Isn´t it? Of course it is, we´ve been told that for years now.... Rgr

[@11robotics]

What counts is whatever the marketing guys are paid to claim. Snake oil isn't going to sell itself now is it?

[@JohnSmith-ck5qk]

I think the winspace women's team does ride this (and the agile)

[@Cycle.every.day.]

Ah yes 'the stiffness is everything era' or 'lightweight is everything era' or 'all-rounder is everything era' or 'longevity is everything era' or 'good tyre clearance is everything era' or 'custom fit is everything era'. Funnily enough these trends always last roughly the same amount of years.

[@username8644]

​@@JohnSmith-ck5qkTo be fair to the aero argument though. They ride much slower than the pro men teams, so there is an argument for more aero frames for men teams. That being said, most normal cyclists aren't riding that fast lol.

[@username8644]

​@@Cycle.every.day.Yeah I love the stiffness argument being run at the same time of the huge tire trend which completely contradict each other.

[@Raymond-Farts]

I can tell watching this video that frame won't last longer than 8 to 10 years. Galvanic corrosion with all the aluminum bonded in parts looks exactly like my Colnago M10 which failed after only 8 years. I wouldn't pay the asking price for this frame. This stuff is cheap quality and materials and should be priced lower as such.

[@Andy-co6pn]

How t.f. are people rounding off thru axles ?? Do Gorillas ride bicycles ?

[@PeakTorque]

Some are a 5mm hex made of cheese

[@yonglingng5640]

Most people don't have quality hex wrenches, it's almost always some China-made chrome vanadium unit. Not inserting it deeply is also another way to ruin a hex interface.

[@Andy-co6pn]

@yonglingng5640 Do they ?