Apparition Ultimate Motor Upgrade - Turnigy SK3 3659-1900kv

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Thanks for the suggestions. The motor water jacket I used was from the original 36mm motor that came in the boat stock. The motor should take most water jackets designed for 36mm diameter motors 60mm long.

[@propfella]

Just a small tip. That ESC was getting rather warm. What I do with the HK 190/200 is completely strip it, give it a few coats of waterproofing, fit the same cooling plate plus a heatsink from the HobbyKing ESC Heatsink Pack (cut to match the size of the plate), cover the lot with heatshrink then cut out around the heatsink. I use silicone pate between each surface and finally run an individual water pickup to it. I find the single rudder pick up isn't enough. It sure keeps the temps down. Stu

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Yes, It sould work great in an outboard Tunnel Hull if you can keep the boat on the water. Will need to have some down angle in the drive I'm sure, lol! You could also run it on 4 or 5 cells if 6 cells is too much. You may have too with a 120A esc as it might not last long running 6 cells.

[@mpetty0226]

Nice boat Humphrey. That thing is screaming fast and durable. Keep the video's comming.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

The Turnigy 180A esc will work if it will fit in the boat. You'll want to make sure you are getting good water cooling as you will be pushing the voltage to the limits of the esc as it is only rated up to 6s.

[@atvrider2000ify]

Hi in the real power boats it's basically the same. What I would try is to try to bring the angle of the prop shaft up a little but try with the battery's in the front, it might gain a mile or 2 maybe. Also try to change the prop size might help. Idk if u can do it but your running super cool so I would try to adjust the timing on the motor and then go from there. Just try some of these things and u have to gain miles. And just remember the faster you go the more air the catamaran will trap under so you need more weight up in the front. Just giving some ideas. And this goes for all boats so good luck man and nice work!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

It's a brushless motor so you can plug in the three wire anyway you want. If it's wrong the motor will run backwards but won't cause any damage. To fix that just swap any two of the three wires around and the motor will turn the opposite direction.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

It's an Octura X442 prop detounged, sharpened and balanced. 42mm diameter with 1.4 pitch ratio 1.4 x 42mm = 58.8mm (2.31 in) of pitch.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I had the timing on mine set to 7.5 degrees and the LiPo setting set to 6s. Always set the amount of cells as the auto detect doesn't always work right .For more details on setting up your esc please have a look at the pdf manual. You can find it on the product listing page under the files tab on HobbyKings website.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Yes . it should work fin in the miss geico 29. It might be even faster as that boat is a little smaller. The Apparition hull is about 32 inches long.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Originally I was going to use the Turnigy Marine 180A esc but had trouble getting it to fit because of the way the wires come straight up instead of out the sides.The tunnel in the apparition is pretty tall and the hatch wouldn't close with the esc in the boat. The HK SS190A esc fit much easier and it is rated to 7s which means it's not pushing it's max voltage rating like the other esc would be.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I would say the 20A connectors were most likely the problem. I use 6mm bullet connectors rated at 200A+ with high temp silver solder. I used to have problems with the smaller 4mm bullet connectors melting the solder from getting to hot.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Every boat is a little different when trying to find the correct GC. It's about balance but also ride additude. The way to get good at it is experimenting with different setup changes. Weight distribution, front to back, and side to side - prop height - prop angle - prop size -all these affect the ride additude. Make minor adjustments to the setup until the least amount of the boat remains in the water and it feels like it almost wants to blow over but still has proper control when turning.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

That would be a very difficult choice to make between the two of these boats. They are equal in many ways and both are awesome running boats. I would say choose the one that appeals to you most.

[@lenliz2003]

well well. just got back from the lake. wow. what a difference. after little settings on the strut, it was running smooth. i am using 4s 3000 45 c left and 2s 3000 45c right. run very smooth now, but i think it will run better on 2x 3s. high speed tends to push the left more down then the right. sure over mp/h. i think i will buy one more me these motor and change connectors to 5.5mm connectors. little bit more tuning to do and i am sure i will go over 63mp/h. will have to be a calm day

[@lenliz2003]

ok Tq. i think i will work on my prop a bit more, plus i will add one more watercool plate on the other side of the Esc.i will also move batteries more back. Tq for your help.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Was using both. I run a 800mAh 2 cell Lipo battery through a Turnigy 5amp bec to the rx. The esc is opto only and doesn't have a built in bec.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

If your batteries are balloning you are drawing more amps out of them than is safe or recommended. You either need larger capacity batteries or ones with a higher c rating.You could also try going down in prop size to reduce the amp draw. The solder melting is another sign of too much power being drawn for that size connector. For very fast boats we use 6mm connectors and silver solder which has a higher melting temp.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I don't run my Turnigy Marine180A esc on 6s just because I don't think it's good to run it at max voltage. I use it up to 5s with no issues from the bec. For 6s I run a HobbyKing SS 190-200A esc rated up to 7s. It's held up great and is very affordable.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

You may have to upgrade the water cooling on your boat. You might not be getting enough water flow if you are still using the stock pickup on the rudder. Please have a look at our older videos and watch the one called "Better RC Boat Water Cooling"

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

This is a 4 pole brushless inrunner so low timing works fine. 3-7 degree timing, I was running at 7 degree advance.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

You need to remove the coating on all the individual stands of wire to make the solder stick. You can do this by burning it off then scrapping off the residue with an Exacto knife. It's a bit of a pain but can be done. afterwards be sure to use flux to clean it while soldering.

[@dalesturgessify]

Thank you very much for your advise ill have a look for the motor now

[@iamtherealzim]

Looked like you ran out of pond before you ran out of throttle :O Very cool!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

continued- The Turnigy Aqustar T20 3T 730kv / 1280kv motor is rated to 11s and 229A @ 5280watts. You can Find this motor on HobbyKing website under boat motors. As for the Spartan it is a deep vee and these hulls are the most difficult to make go extremely fast. I don't think I have seen any do 100mph+ yet.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I would say you are probably running a much heavier setup. Weight can slow things down. Especially if the boat is running too wet. Try adjusting the strut angle and height till the boat wants to flip over backwards then back it back down just a little. Also you should detounged your prop as it reduces the load on the motor and increases motor rpm and prop speed. Check the prop shaft and flex cable are not binding and lube them every couple runs .

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Bigger boats usally have more drag and make the motor work harder. It also depends on how wet your boat is running. The more of the boat you can get out of the water the less the motor has to work because you reduce the amount of surface tension the boat has on the water. It's a fine line between maximum speed and blowing over, lol!!!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

The discharge c rating on batteries refers to the amount of amps that can be safely drawn out of the battery without it getting damaged. It also effects the voltage drop of the battery when under high loads. Higher c rated batteries will have less voltage drop at the same given amp draw as a lower c battery.The motor will only draw what it needs for the load you are putting on it at that rpm. The battery does not force the power into the motor, the motor draws the power out of the battery.

[@propfella]

Weight wise the boat was pretty much maxed out so lowering the prop shaft would tend to push the nose down but probably causing speed loss. Trim plates may help to push the transom up but again with loss of speed. I don't think that particular boat will ever realise full throttle. Maybe a tunnel hull with dual water pickups may do the job. Great motor though, I might try one myself. You didn't say where you got that water jacket from. Well done, I hope you do a few more boat mods. All the best

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

A pair of these in a boat that size would really make it fast and fun to drive! Would love to see some video of that. I say give it a try, you could always start off with less than 6 cells and if it seems like it can take it then move up to the 6s setup. Be sure to let us know how she runs.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Gabe between working full time and making videos we really don't have the free-time to build and sell things. If you would like to build one yourself there are links to all the parts listed in the video information bar below the video. Thanks for supporting DieHardrcAddicts.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Not sure why I'm being called Steve but I would say this motor would work fine in the Motley Crew. It's only about 2-3 inches shorter than the Apparition. You might want to try it on 4s or 5s first before jumping to 6s right a way just to get used to the motor.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

HobbyKing sells the Aquastar Monster 240A 12s esc but it is water resistant not water proof. You can also find this esc as the Swordfish 240A on other websites. Offshore electric carries it. The only other Hi voltage boat esc I know of are the 160a and 200a 16s esc that were sold on FighterCat website. I don't see them on their site anymore but you could check with them. 100mph is a goal I've had for a while now but still have quite a ways to go.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Casper the 3 blade 40mm prop should work fine. I don't have a diagram to send you but you really don't need one. The three wires coming out of one side of the esc go to the motor. The other two on the other side go to the battery and the servo style lead plugs into the rx throttle channel. If the motor spins backwards just unplug any two wires to the motor and swap them to change the direction of the motor. Plug the steering servo in and a rx battery to the rx and you are done.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Thanks Mike!! Man this thing gives me the shakes from the adrenaline rush, lol!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Yes, the boat was running on two 3 cell LiPo batteries in series which is the same as 6s battery.The batteries are listed in the video information bar.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Since I really don't know enough about our boat I would suggest doing some research on the rc forums and postong any questions you have there. I've always found them to be very helpful. Try the RCGroups and offshoreelectric forums they are great.

[@MrGoochMane]

wow man that's nice, that thing will move some water, loved to see a race with that boat. hopefully i can spare some cash sooner rather than later and purchase a boat RC..Currently only have SCT RC's but looking forward to getting into the boats

[@startazz]

Damn that thing was really going some Frank,nice one and thanks for sharing mate.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Sorry no links, got the XL size tubing from the local hobby shop and the Y adaptor at a local auto parts store. You can find similar parts on offshoreelectric website. They sell them in their cooling system parts section.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Please set it the same as mentioned above. The Turnigy Marine 180A esc also comes with a manual.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

The Apparition comes with a metric 4mm size prop shaft drive system and requires a shim to run octura 3/16 inch shaft size props. Haven't had to replace the stock drive parts yet but when It's time I'll probably upgrade to a complete 3/16 inch drive.

[@propfella]

Terrific, thanks Frank, just the info I needed. I have a jacket to fit so all I need is the motor. I just have to figure out which boat would be the best to put it in. I have a Miss Budweiser all brand new with a Nitro motor. Local council laws have banned using fuel boats so I guess that may be the best candidate. It would be heavier than the Apparition so maybe it will stay upright :-) Thanks for giving me the info on the motor and jacket. Keep up the good work mate. Stu

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

2726kv is pretty high for a stock motor in a boat. I would say check the manual that came with the boat first. If you do not have one I would suggest starting with a 4000mAh to 5000mAh 3 cell lipo and see how it runs. The 2 motors in the twin version of the Apparition are around the same kv and run great on 3 cells.

[@jkflorida]

That's a pretty bad ass boat!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

This motor would be a direct bolt in replacement as it is the same size as the stock one that comes in the SurgeCrusher. You will need to add a water jacket to keep it cool. You should be able to run it on 5s but it will still be quite a hand full to drive just because of the small size of the boat. Please let us know how it runs.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Detouging the prop will take load off the motor and esc. Running separate water cooling to the each the motor and esc will not preheat the water before going to the next part of equipment like in a linear setup. Both these things should help keep temps down.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Not sure what to tell you if it does not cycle through all the settings. The only thing that comes to mind is are you using the marine version or the airplane version of the esc. the settings are different for each type. I used the airplane version and added a heat sink. if you have the marine version search for the setup manual for that version. if you can't find it on HobbyKing search Suppo esc website.

[@LowCostCncRetrofits]

Its a pity you can't open it up more along that little pond of yours frank. Im lucky were I live in australia, can give it 20sec straight runs along my lake Trying out the turnigy edf 1900kv motor mod you recommended tomorrow Im sure it will perform like a cut cat The stock motor wasn't to bad at 6S but after watching your video the 1900kv motor this is truly the ultimate at over 100kph

[@aussieboy108]

ok thanks will do!!! keep up the good work

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Less load on the motor and esc means less heat created. Seperate water cooling lines and a better water pickup to promote better water flow will help control temps. please see our video on this - Better RC Boat water cooling -

[@lenliz2003]

yes i shaped,balanced and polished the prop. i agamgdddtgd setting today to 8mhz and timing to 7. i run a separate pickups for cooling and bigger tubing. i did my setup according to you crusher, but with the EDF motor. it should also hit at least 60 with the smaller hull. my lipo also 50c 3s 4000 x 2. my strut set high like your crusher. maybe i should move lipo forward and drop the strut. here did you get the sweet spot for CG on your crusher.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

There are lots of high power 28mm motors on HK website. And then there are those crazy Dr Mad Trust EDF motors. If you can find a water jacket that will fit a 29mm diameter motor then those would be my choice. The 2200kv version is rated up to 6s and 1600watts of power. A pair of those would be really fast!!!! The best part is they should bolt in and the shaft is the same size as the stock motors. Just got to work out the water jacket.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

We have video of this motor running on 4s in the Pursuit rc vee hull. Its at the end of the video "HobbyKing RC Boats" which you can watch on our DieHardrcAddicts KZbin channel. If you plan to run 6s then get the 1600kv version of this same motor. I don't recomend running the 1900kv one on 6s in the Pursuit because it is a vee hull and has more drag. This will load the motor up too much and cause it to burn up.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

The motor water jacket I used was from the original 36mm motor that came in the Apparition stock. This motor should take most water jackets designed for 36mm diameter motors 60mm long. Just do a search and you will find many this size.

[@ijanmotoclubijanmotoclub9039]

Wow that boat flying 😅😅 nice vedio 😘😘

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

This motor is a few ounces heavier than the 3648 but should work fine on the F1 Hornet. You may want to try 4s first to see if you can keep the boat on the water. That should be good for 50mph+ I would think. If you are going to run 6s make sure not to go bigger than X440 if you are not going to detounge the prop or you may burn this motor up too. X442 only if tounge is removed. Remember it's 1900kv not 1450kv like the 3648 motor. Any water jacket for 3660 size motor will fit.

[@NITROPERSON]

hi frank paul tried all the files on hk for this esc it working but was trying to set up like yours much appricated

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

There isn't a program carde fore this esc. it must be programmed with the radio tx. You can find the program instructions in the files tab on the product page on Hobbykings web site or do a search for Suppo esc manual on the internet.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I have the pwm set to 8KHz and motor timing set to 7deg. This motor has 6 poles so these are the recommended settings per the manual from Suppo website. Other things that could affect the performance are the batteries and prop. Are you using high c rated batteries? I run 40c or higher these have less voltage drop. Is you prop detounged, sharpened and balanced? If not it will put extra load on the motor and slow it down. It will also have a slightly lower pitch ratio with the tongue still on.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

It's an Octura x442 detounged, sharpened, and balanced.

[@CARMELOGUARRASI]

Nice video ......greetings from ITALY

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

It runs great on 4s only not as fast. We have video of it running on 4s in the Pursuit rc vee hull. Its at the end of the video "HobbyKing RC Boats" which you can watch on our DieHardrcAddicts KZbin channel.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Please watch our video called "HobbyKing RC Boats" this set up is running on 4 cells in the Pursuit 800 with the same x442 prop. It's at the end of the video. It runs great on 4s, you would need to stiffen the bottom of the hull if you plan on running it on 6 cells as it flexes too much from all the power.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Per what was on the box it was intended for 90mm EDF units

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

It would not be a bolt in upgrade. You would need to change the motor mounts and drive couplers. The drives may need to be changed too because I'm not sure they could handle the power. The stock hardware is setup for 28mm diameter motors with 3.17mm shaft size. The SK3 motor is 36mm Diameter and has 5mm shaft size.

[@joef595]

That looks like fun. Amazing power!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Not sure never timed any runs and usally bring the boat in well before running the battery out. If I had to guess I would say 8 to 10 minutes running it hard, maybe.

[@BARFtheNAR]

Thanks that is all I needed to here. Subscribed!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Haven't had a chance to run this setup on 4s but would guess speeds would be right about 50mph since the stock 1600kv motor hit the low 40s on 4s.

[@gerterwt11]

that thing is sick man!!!!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

4200kv is pretty high for for using on an rc boat unless you are using some kind of gear reduction drive system. That's more than double the kv of the motor in this one which is only 1900kv. My fastest 3 cell boat runs at 40mph with a 2900kv motor. As for the spoiler question, it might work but would not look scale on this kind of boat.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

The hull is about 32 inches long. Not sure about the weight but if I were to guess I would say 5 to 6 lbs.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Never really time it but would guess around 7-8 minutes before I bring it back in.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Please have a look at the video information bar below the video. There you will find links to all the parts used in this upgrade including the esc and water cooled heat sink I used on it.

[@OGBandit1]

You should definitely run a rear ring mount with that setup.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

2s 7.4 volts x 5650kv = 41810rpm, the calculated prop speed. 7.4v x 30amps = 222watts maximum you can run through the esc with out going over its rating. I would say unless you are using some very small motors that won't draw more than this you will most likely see your two esc go up in smoke. You will need two much bigger esc or two lower kv rated motors. I'm not to sure how you will steer the boat without a rudder.

[@Neomax25]

Man that is mental.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I wouldn't recommend this motor on 6s in the Genesis. It is smaller than the stock motor. You should probably look for something the same size or bigger. The HobbyKing Dr Mad Thrust motor is 3674 - 1620kv and rated at 2400watts of power on 6s. This is the same size as the stock motor but about 3 times the power. The 180A Seaking esc should work fine but I recommend using a separate bec if you are going to run it on 6s. I hear the built in bec will sometimes burn up on 6s.

[@TFfan75]

Dont think there was a maunal on the motor, just some basic stuff about the boat. Thanx, Ill try that!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

The stock cg on the Surge Crusher is way too far forward. I had to move the batteries back about 3 inches to get the boat to stop plowing water. If you are still using the stock battery trays then you need to move your cg back not forward. Move it back a little each run till the boat blows over backwards, then bring it forward just enough to stop the blow overs and you should be good to go. That motor in that boat should be faster than the Apparition if you can keep it on the water, lol!

[@rwthomas1]

I should have also added get a prop from Bob Austin at Propworks.

[@pepper3382]

thank you very much

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Guess you didn't notice all there 3s boats run motors less than 2700kv. Here's why, 2s 7.4volts x 4122kv = 30502rpm 3s 11.1volts x 4122kv = 45754rpm That's over 15000rpm more and a 50% increase in prop speed. Anyone who knows fast rc boats will tell you that the power draw goes up exponentially the faster you spin your prop. If you don't believe this then please feel free to learn the hard way and try your set up out. Good Luck!

[@FairviewRCflier]

Awesome video!

[@lenliz2003]

Tq for the reply. that is what i did last night, so i will ver a again today. i was using stupid 20A wire connectors,screw type, to join the wires from motor to Esc. could that have been the reason why the motor was overheating within 30sec of riding. if not, this must be a faulty motor. i have had Greate success with this same motor in other projects, but this time the only time i cut the connectors, because my Esc didn't have, and i didn't have, so my only solution was to just solder the wires

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

This one has 6 esc settings in the programming.

[@FinestRacing]

Very difficult to decide between the Genesis and the Apparition. Pros and cons between the two. The Genesis has the length but I think is to narrow. The Apparition is about 10" shorter and is about a 1/4 inch narrow then the Genesis. I am leaning more towards the Apparition. The big question: Twin motor or single. Since both are almost equal in speed - the deciding factor was when the twin was top heavy due to battery location. I think with a single, I will have less roll overs. Just my 2 cents.

[@swiftgti16v]

I have an Apparition with TP Power 3670 2100KV 3300 Watt Max with Seaking 120A and i have change the caps with the Rubycon 35V 1000uf and i solder the cables from esc to the motor I run it at the sea. I run it at 4S2p and the cable bridge is 10AWG and the batteries is Hard case 6000mah 60-120C The timing is 3.75 degree and i use M445 Octura The Temp after almost 5 min is 35 Celcius (95 Fahr) at motor and the Esc At the capasitors the temp is 85 Celcius (185 FAhr) The Weight of the boat ready for run is 2650grm (5.9 pounds) with batteries and hatch and the CG is 31cm (12.2 inches) from the back of the boat The Strut is 3mm below of the ride pads I was using the offset rudder but after some runs i realize that the rudder stays in the water and keep draging the boat slow.The same day i use the straight rudder and it was so big difference (No draging and more faster plain) I have only one issue That boat want to fly and flip over all the time.... I think that i have to put some weight in it What is your oppinion??? Thanks so much....

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I'm not sure what scale the boat is but the hull is only 32 inches long. I would be guessing scale speed of a 38' to 40' Offshore Cat would be close to 800mph, lol!!

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

I believe I had mine set at 7 degrees timing.

[@DiehardRCaddicts]

Just guessing it is between 4 to 5 lbs without the batteries.

[@pineconeoutdoors2487]

This video was the inspiration to my apparition build. Trying to find a 3/16 prop shaft upgrade and figure out what prop to use. I'm running the 1600kv edf with a 120a turnigy esc on 6s. Exploded stock prop going to try a 42mm grim racer prop next. Any info would help me thanks!

[@PatBALEX]

Is that a motor for an EDF jet? If so than that's why it's so powerful...

[@amanjain4729]

thank you.I just thought of moving both the propellers in opposite directions,so that if i got to turn on any one side,i will reduce the speed of one of the prop (on the opposite side) and thus my boat will take a turn in that direction and excluding the use of a rudder.My boat is gonna be not that big(just 30*25 mm) and since i am using balsa and carbon fiber the boat weight wont go over 1-1.5 kg according to my approximations.So can u let me know what will be d best suited motor for my boat.

[@Jorgeay7]

Can you upload a video of the motor running out of the boat because i bought one and seems slow

[@savageZA76]

63 mph, that is just insane! What would the scale mph be for this model at 63 mph?

[@paulcooper7162]

Hi what is the best fastest propeller to use with this, im putting this motor etc into a new model Valantex racent angry shark rc boat

[@leonardomatoso3400]

friend how did you do to correct the effect of engine torque

[@dalesturgessify]

Love the speed on that boat , I have a Genesis would that be to small a motor to push the Genesis along and also I thought 6s on a 1900 kv motor was pushing its limits ? Please let me know