Difference Between God Existing & Morality of God | Matthew - NC | Atheist Experience 21.24

[@exilfromsanity]

My mind is made up, don't try to confuse me with the facts.

[@nuffflavor]

ROFL !

[@MasterSpade]

Exactly!!! The Facts just get in the way of the indoctrinated Fantasy! Sad but True...

[@sparki9085]

"were willing to change our minds" "You're not willing to change your mind" The callers a good listener

[@jonquist9950]

Tracie & Matt are the dream team. She's the only other host who can get a word in edgewise with Matt. Lol

[@ptuffgong8504]

Because Tracie drops logic bombs and Dillahunty knows it. But you are correct. Matt gets on a roll sometimes.

[@talanock]

they work well together. Matt and jen as well but tracie more so.

[@justanormalday7251]

And I like how Matt always disagrees when other co hosts make a mistake

[@BrianGay57]

They are the perfect “Good cop, bad cop” team!

[@Omerta_1964]

Yeah i really respect Tracy and wish she got to say more. But the good things is when she does get to say something it always is huge! Matt drops bombs on the religtards for sure but Tracy drops Nukes on them! LOL :)

[@serg10x]

15:10 The reason why I admire Tracie, she has a way of dissecting arguments in a way even a Christian can understand.

[@queezle4277]

"even a christian could understand" 🤣

[@ralfhaggstrom]

@@queezle4277 Are you sure ? ..............

[@sansabark]

Perhaps they find it hard to completely condemn slavery, when they themselves are willing slaves to a god?

[@lauriesoper4056]

Bingo, Sansabark. I totally agree with you. "Worship" is, after all, in its religious manifestation, a form of slavery.

[@robertaroberts9723]

"You actually hung up on me last time" lololol

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

Why not again ? ................

[@davidsosa538]

And Matt was like "yeah, so..." XDXDXD He didn´t give a shit 🤣

[@KonradZielinski]

Note that god had room for "don't make fun of my name" on his list of the 10 most important rules but he didn't have room for don't own slaves, that has to be implied through some kind of tortured logic.

[@Meansnare]

That is a pretty interesting take on not taking the lords name in vain, kinda funny, however it isn’t the message, it is more of a denouncement of blasphemy and denial of the god.

[@EustaBAracer]

@@Meansnare god is a gay liberal, jesus is a black lesbian, the holy ghost is literally Elton John. Christianity is gay as hell.

[@themanwithnoname1839]

​@@Meansnareyea but god isnt a name, its a title, god has a name lmfao, and it isnt god.... So by saying "oh my god" that is NOT blasphemy, so christians cant even get that right

[@johns1625]

Well yeah if the bible said that then the bronze age men who made it up couldn't own slaves 😂

[@MasterSpade]

“Only fools and dead men don't change their minds. Fools won't and dead men can't.” -- John H. Patterson “RELIGION…..The Practice of training your mind to ignore Evidence, Logic, and Reason, while being able to believe in Fairy tales based on faith alone… And being Proud of it rather than Ashamed.” - Paul Ryan

[@Sumiyeco_boutique]

Master Spade Did Paul Ryan really day that? Source? PR is religious.

[@MasterSpade]

@@Sumiyeco_boutique -- lol! Finally someone noticed that! He didn't say that, but I put his name because it's something I wish people like him, politicians, would say. I can Dream........... Sad that here we are just days away from 2019 and those of us that do not believe in talking snakes are the ones in the minority here in the U.S. Not some 3rd world country mind you, but the U.S!!! We are the last industrial nation in the world where the majority still believe in their Invisible friend.................the rest of the world is rightfully laughing at us..........

[@kreiskhaos8516]

While we're at it, is that a Peterson quote? Doesn't quite sound like him. That's too concrete.

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

Exactly ..............

[@NoodlePastie]

@@MasterSpade hilarious

[@j50wells]

Caller is such a liar. "In the Bible, kidnapping is illegal." Try telling that to righteous Joshua who burned down cities and killed everything but took the young men back as slaves, and the young women as concubines. That's the worst form of kidnapping, to kill the parents and kidnap the children. But Matthew will try to justify it and make a bunch of lies up about those people, "Oh, they were raping women, having orgies, homosexuality, pedophilia...blah, blah." Nope, the real reason it all happened is because the extreme raging jealousy of Yawheh who couldn't stand that anyone would worship another god that wasn't him.

[@cocolossal69]

The thing that always impresses me about Matt is that these callers, try as they might, can never derail his position. While they're tying themselves in knots trying to justify their bullshit, he just continues to plough right on through.

[@emperorsgrandads]

Wow the verbal gymnastics this guy has to perform because of following an ancient text. Religion really does dull the brain and does a lot of damage to critical thinking and some just can't recover

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

(8:00 - 9:00) Reminds me of the Bill Nye v Ken Ham moment, when asked what would be required for them to change their minds. Bill Nye said "One good piece of evidence". Ken Ham said that he'd NEVER change his mind, irrespective of what was presented before him. The most stunning example of a closed minded buffoon. An embarrassing admission - if Ken Ham was capable of being embarrassed.

[@hhvictor2462]

Ancient Rome had legal rules governing treatment of slaves, but I doubted slave revolt leader Spartacus would have given two f**ks about that.

[@merkgalifinakis1817]

Why can no one answer a straight yes or no answer!!? You've been doing this for years and I can't even imagine how you have the patience.

[@CuongNguyen-le5ic]

Same, always to this point. The longer you argue with religious, the longer you lose hope in humanity because of these people. I have enough people to tell me that "God created everything, so God can kill anyone" as an excuse for Jesus will coming back to kill over 7,000,000,000 people and basically wipe out this entire planet. I have seen enough people to use "God is always Morally Right" to give excuse to corrupt theirs HUMANITY AND MORALITY to fit what written in Bible.

[@kimsland999]

I agree with @@CuongNguyen-le5ic regarding that its because their testified God is right, even if they (the theists) themselves think its wrong. THAT's how bad indoctrination is. There was one caller once that admitted it straight out. He said he himself is wrong, but his God is right. Which is the basis of most of these debates. Why I don't know why I believe in my mythical God, but he still must be true. Ridiculous.

[@HoichiTheEarless]

"slavery is just something that people do, so God didn't bother to prohibit it..." so is coveting what others have, but i guess he felt that was more worthy of prohibition than owning and beating fellow humans

[@justanormalday7251]

And he was not concerned about people eating sea foods and mixing fabrics . Even though people loved too eat it and still does eat it today.

[@charlesatty]

Tracy , wow, Matt is great but she hits a home run every time she responds to an issue.

[@kohnfutner9637]

I love how all points of reason just go right over theists' heads.

[@frederikholfeld868]

that was a great rant at the end :D

[@JM-ot8ux]

Sound is cut off for the last few minutes! :(

[@TalesZuliani]

Returned to this episode due to a facebook post and remembered why I love the show so much

[@CuriousMindCenter]

I love Matt’s concluding remarks in many episodes. Classic!

[@unclecarl5406]

Atheist.... I am willing to change my mind on anything, including the existence of God, if enough persuasive evidence is presented. Christian..... I will never change my mind. Which of the two is reasonable.

[@fxsrider]

I have plenty of relatives like that guy.

[@davidhatcher7016]

That's sad.

[@kentonbaird878]

You have our sympathies.

[@joshp2542]

Dont worry one day you might be able to convince your uncle/brother that hes wrong.

[@juliewake4585]

fxsrider nasty

[@elainejohnson6955]

I love Tracie's knowing smile that Matt is going to kick this guy's a$$ as soon as he tries to argue slavery.

[@richiejohnson]

12:10. There's that smile!

[@RobertSmith-gx3mi]

Thou shalt not steal. Unless you are taking the humanity, dignity, and freedom of another human being that is.

[@vilkoskorlich259]

MYTH: Slavery was confined to the South. America always had its abolitionist movements, but slavery existed in every colony. Massachusetts, in the northern United States, was the first colony to legalise slavery. And in 1720, around a fifth of New York's population were slaves. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, among other founding fathers, owned hundreds of slaves. It wasn't until after the Revolutionary War that the abolitionist movement began to be a significant political force. At that point, it was up to each individual state to outlaw slavery. Vermont was the first state to abolish the institution, and more northern states followed soon after that. By the Civil War, it was only the states under the Mason-Dixon line that hadn't abolished slavery.

[@richdandanell2911]

But still ..... Slavery is wrong and an a all knowing god should know that . Any god that endorses it , is not worthy of worship . That's the main point . But the history you relate is well worth knowing about . Nothing is as black and white as religion portrays it .

[@brifox]

I don't think anyone believes that slavery was confined to the South. Admittedly plantation slavery certainly was, since plantations in the north were just a bad idea. Most northern slaves were domestic, which is also why abolition gained so much traction there. When you only have one or two slaves and they do stuff like wash your clothes, it's easy to give them up as opposed to giving up a labor force of literally hundreds. Also, when trying to argue that slavery wasn't confined to the South, might not be a good idea to use the example of two Founding Fathers who were from the South themselves.

[@PosskoonFTW]

Ok?

[@TmRnBn]

Nor was it confined to the U.S. Or Europe. Or Eurasia. Or the far-east, near-east, north and south. Slavery has been on every continent (except maybe Antarctica) and virtually all human cultures. Slavery was a pox among the tribes of Africa, the indigenous Americans, the Legions of Rome, the horse-tribes of the Khans, Cossacks, and Mongols. Though it has been largely curtailed, it still persists if not in name, in essence, and in all but the previously excluded land masses. None of that changes the fact that slavery is immoral and anyone (or anything) who supports it or makes excuses on how it might be done within the codes of a culture should also be considered immoral. Slavery is a diaper-stain from our primitive past, as is religion, war, and disco, and they should be expurgated permanently.

[@ichigogeek]

This is more of a comment about consumer society than about slavery in the west but I think it'd be a fair comparison to say that sweatshops in Africa, Asia and India are somewhat a kind of slavery for the first world, maybe a member of our society doesn't directly have slaves, but in order for part of our culture to function we need that population to work for us in conditions that in our world would be considered inhumane. Any thoughts? If I'm misrepresenting the issue I'd be glad to know.

[@StarSong936]

You know, what amazes me is not that this caller has a blind spot a mile wide. What amazed me is I used to be this person. How, until about 1 month ago, did I never see it? Mind you, I've never agreed that anyone should own someone else as property, but, even though I knew that the Bible had rules regarding slavery, it never entered my mind to question it. I throw myself down in front of you in abject apology.and ask forgiveness.

[@josmalig-on2907]

I went through that period too: trying to come up with some justification for the bible's immorality because I accepted my religion as truth. I feel so disgusted that I ever worshipped and listened to that hypocritical god.

[@StarSong936]

@@josmalig-on2907 I once asked my Mom, "How long have I been a girl?" I'm physically a male. Her reply was "Always since you were born." I then asked her "Why then, did you never treat me like one?" She said, "I must have had blinders on." Well, I know what those blinders were. We were a fundamentalist independent baptist family, and my parents were, at one point, missionaries in my early childhood. My Mom did admit though that her biggest mistake with me was to send me to a private christian school. My problem there was not the teachers, it was with the other students. Being called faggot, and fairy fag was not something I would wish on anybody. I had been so sheltered (being that my parents did not want me to know any such thing existed) I had no idea what they were talking about, other than it was an insult. After my parents got divorced, my Mom became my best friend. She helped me deal with much of the pain that came from this, and other sources. Once I was ready to deal with this, she was always ready to listen. One thing I am grateful for was, when my Mom died, there was nothing I still needed to share with her. I just enjoyed being by her side until the end. There is much more to this than I can share here. I have left comments on other videos - if you can find them - which would shed more light on this. It was, however, a part of my journey.

[@josmalig-on2907]

@@StarSong936 I am sorry for your loss. You were truly fortunate to have parents who accept you as you are. I can't imagine getting kicked out for being LGBT. As to the people who insult you, their insults reveal much more about them. They are so insecure that they have to put down somebody who's different from them in order to artificially inflate their self-esteem. In time, they'll admire your courage to be unashamedly yourself and not caring what others think.

[@StarSong936]

@@josmalig-on2907 I appreciate your sentiment, however, my Mom's death did not hurt, much. She and I were on good terms. The ones that hurt was my Dad's suicide (he thought his family had abandoned him, though that was not the case) and the murder of my brother. Those hurt much worse. If you wish to know about the murder, look up Joe and Michelle Gable on Google. The location is Helena Montana. My sister in law had been talking to me about suicide. Little did I know that violence toward one's self could turn outward and become murder. My dad never confided to me the difficulty he was in. I was renting an apartment at the time, and could have given him a place to find his feet again had he only told me what he was going through. For that matter, he could have had his retirement even without his company funded retirement (the company went bankrupt, taking his retirement with it). I was willing to do that, but he never told me. And no, my dad never knew what I told my Mom. He died much too early for that conversation. Oh, my little brother is married. When I met his fiance, I told him "If you let this lady slip through your fingers I will haunt your afterlife!" They are still married and doing well.

[@josmalig-on2907]

@@StarSong936 I am sorry that happened to you. Even though we have no proof of a heaven or a god, I hope that there's an afterlife where we can see our relatives again and hopefully it is ruled by a kind and just god (not the one in the bible). It's easy to fall into religion when life gets tough (that's why missionaries go to impoverished countries), but you had the strength to not give in to religion even in your toughest days. It seems you're very resilient and I wish you the best for the future.

[@matszz]

Murder? what? Your honor, I didn't murder anyone, I stole his life, I'll admit to theft.

[@CuriousMindCenter]

I always love Matt’s concluding remarks. So inspiring and in-depth.

[@richrichy3015]

One if the best videos with Matt ever IMO.

[@richrichy3015]

I always think that the callers can't possibly be more stupid than the last.....then I click play.

[@TheHydred]

I don't know what was different about this caller convo but this one was really good.

[@mustacheofgold6846]

Never ceases to amaze me how badly some theists want to ignore clearly immoral behavior. Goes against their image of God so much, they straight-up deny reality to keep living a lie.

[@SuperLewisRoberts]

There's nothing you can say that will convince a hard-core Christian. I think they should at least refrain from debating their beliefs for their own good. When asked to support their beliefs they will always refer to the Bible; their circular reasoning is helpless.

[@EustaBAracer]

"See you in hell"

[@Omerta_1964]

I love the way Matt shoots down these religtards then Tracy drops a Nuke on them to finish em up! :)

[@AlanaGurl]

My fav duo Tracie and Matt. I like Jeff and Jen too.

[@WalkingDday]

He’s a great tap dancer.

[@garyskinner2422]

Yep he trained Fred astaire

[@EustaBAracer]

As good as Michael J Fox

[@ThugByChoice]

My thoughts exactly about slavery I just never had the balls to say it!! Thank you so much for this channel!!!

[@t4705mb6]

Ignorance is fixable. Stupid is permanent.

[@SkyeID]

If this caller was a plantation owner in 1860, not only would he own slaves, and be offended that anyone would want to abolish it, but in the civil war he'd fight for slavery to continue.

[@tonyedward6909]

Funny thing is after the Civil War slavery still continued in the north. 😂

[@redriverfollow]

I didn't know that Gomer Pyle ever called in to Dillahunty!

[@dashingkevs3295]

I don't understand why it's important to worship. If God wanted me to worship him he can tell me.

[@malcolmhodnett8874]

What I’m hearing him say at the start is “shut up, it doesn’t effect you”

[@dimitrioskalfakis]

befuddled with contradictions between reality and his mythology book, a hypocrite and 'magnus ignoramus' about his 'holy' book. a true christian.

[@geraldodonnell2595]

My two favorite hosts 😄👍

[@MrSubsound90]

This is a case study in projection. The caller won't change any part of their mind and assumes the people he's talking to are in the same mind even after being repeatedly corrected.

[@tedgrant2]

Matthew, does the Bible say that your master can drive an awl through your ear if you decide to stay with your master ? And are you happy about having an awl driven through your ear ? Are female slaves treated the same way as male slaves ?

[@tedgrant2]

@@eragon78 Quite right. But hypothetically, would Matthew mind having an awl stuck through his ear. You know, if he was a Hebrew slave. I'm guessing that all slaves were marked in some way for identification. Slaves were probably branded with the owners distinctive mark.

[@EustaBAracer]

Additionally, would Matthew be willing to let his children become biblical slaves? It's virtuous to be a slave, so...

[@tedgrant2]

@@EustaBAracer And if Matthew wanted to leave his master, could he take his wife and children with him ? See Exodus 21:3-4 for the regulations.

[@katyungodly]

Yes, no, no. Immoral book.

[@tedgrant2]

@@katyungodly And quite silly and shocking in many chapters, such as Deuteronomy 25 Verse 10 is silly and verse 12 is shocking.

[@vizzini2510]

This caller's brain is clearly broken.

[@Bella-vt7ol]

The only reason the bible gave an out for taking out a slaves eye or a slaves tooth is because they knew a slave that couldnt see or eat would be a terrible slave...it WAS NOT some grand gesture of love for thy fellow human 😑

[@Ireallywouldrathernot]

Yeah, I prefer watching Tracie argue.

[@RonnieD1970]

Matt and Tracy kick ass

[@tedgrant2]

"Be ready always to give an answer to every woman that asketh you a reason of the hope..."

[@dalesmith4609]

Matt owned this guy! :D ..not in a slave way though..

[@MrBBOTP]

8 minutes was all I could give this guy

[@edmundpotrzeba6094]

The problem with the southern accent is that if the person has guitar in his hand I come over with a warm glow but when they have a bible my skin begins to crawl with the ignorance and stupid .

[@justme-ep2rv]

I don't see 75 arguments against the video, but there are 75 dislikes :( that is what any religion do

[@ircjesselee]

11:47 Matt can't believe that question is actually being asked :D

[@peejay4606]

Love you too Tracie

[@RadikalTurtle]

Theists are so incredibly disgustingly dishonest and dismissive of the issue of slavery in the Bible. It's reprehensible! The way they try and weasle around the issue and thr exception they make for their proposed moral god is despicable!

[@CronoXpono]

I’m at a point where I look around and see the horrible inequality surrounding us...and chalk it up to that same mentality; it is what it is so keep it trucking. The way folks are so damn ready to boot lick for the rich, etc. lines up pretty well with this guarantee to follow such a horrific tyrant like the biblical god.

[@darksoul479]

Oh good I heard the first part of this one. I can't wait for the rest.

[@aboukharfa734]

Matt, for me, I think this was your best argument regarding the Bible's support for slavery. Yes I watched your video on slavery but somehow I found this discussion more passionate. Christians are confused, desperate, and embarrassed when it comes to the issue of slavery in the Bible. Every argument they try to use makes things worse for them. I feel so sorry that they are trying to defend something that asked people not to kill but that thing was afraid to forbid slavery because nobody was going to listen. Poor heartless, confused, disoriented, and stupid being, that thing.

[@albertcombrink3717]

i LOVE Matt and Tracie

[@sparki9085]

"you can't lie, but slavery is just too big of an issue for me to comment on" -god

[@slimmyjimothy5147]

poor Mathew, missing all the points

[@KnakuanaRka]

Hey, why does the sound switch to one channel around 16:10?

[@EustaBAracer]

Looooool that happened right when i got to your comment and I started freaking loo

[@hambone8820]

Anyone that does not have an open mind to change is not worth debating. Matt has said numerous times that he would change his mind if provided evidence, theists on the other hand no matter how strong the evidence against their reasonings is they will not change.

[@truu-dl8rp]

This is one of my faves.

[@kpobje]

matt is so unbeatable because, no offense to many atheists, he has so much more knowledge about the bible than the average non believer

[@LIZABETHYEAUX666]

He and many atheists have more knowledge than the average believer. Actually being informed is a killer of religious doctrine. Most of these hosts are former fundamentalist Christians. All you gotta do is crack a book and think for yourself.

[@wmd40]

"don't steal somebody else's freedom.... But slavery is cool"

[@darkira2129]

I think mat should ask the theists, "Do you worship your president?"

[@michelerich1590]

lmao when he lays down 'don't steal somebody else's freeduhm' like he's so clever. pitiful.

[@ahh_yes_mr_bax]

Christianity teaches you to to be okay with being dishonest

[@brinkcraven837]

These people come on here thinking they are going to proselytize to these guys. It’s so gratifying to watch Matt and Tracie completely turn the tables on them. 😝

[@hippieanimal]

I admire your patience

[@zachc349]

An interesting thought - something tells me this caller has never considered how he would feel if HE was a slave and was treated as the bible permits. In such an instance, in his mind, I'm betting he's always just automatically assumed he would be the slave-owner and not the slave. He's never considered the opposite possibility - I wonder if he would change his views should that scenario be posed to him...

[@ericscaillet2232]

It's always holy to consider the other man circumstances, very good point -ie : love your neighbour etc...

[@dukeemzworth3005]

Gullibility, stupidity & dishonesty are the real 'Holy Trinity' of Christianity.

[@galileoshift8330]

lol mathew: you are exactly right dillahunty: i know iam exactly right hahahahah

[@laurieharper1526]

Did that caller really say he's heard "nothing new" from atheists? Does he not see that God botherers have been trotting out the same old nonsense for thousands of years? Unbelievable.

[@johnlopperman2161]

Uproarious comic to watch apologist callers tap-dance with shoelaces tied together!!!🤣

[@tedgrant2]

Nothing would convince me that Popeye is not the boyfriend of Olive Oyl. Thousands of original cartoons confirm the fact that Popeye is indeed the boyfriend of Olive Oyl. There is no dispute about this among Popeye fans.

[@diggyhill741]

My personal hell Is waking up with the callers ignorant accent.

[@matszz]

OMG what an obnoxious caller. Not listening, it's pointed out to him, continues not listening.

[@Rob-fc9wg]

Hahaha, I just love the tap dance show these theist put on.

[@sukavuka]

This is south Carolina. Matt you will not win a reasonable argument about owning another person as a property.

[@ThugByChoice]

Holy shit this dude just said slavery’s cool 😳

[@kimsland999]

This dude would still own slaves and beat them today, if Christianity was in anyway part of the law. And then he'd be a lot more open about, disclosing that he had slaves and his God is cool with that. Theism is not just ignorance, its wilful ignorance and cognitive dissonance.

[@krampuskardashian5890]

Sound cuts out for me @ 16:14, not sure if that's just me or for anyone else.

[@FourDeuce01]

Matthew is calling to make excuses for why he won’t show any evidence for god. Seems like it would be easier for him to just show some evidence, IF he had any.😈

[@elouis2040]

Boy! I'm going to HELL I just ate some crawfish and shrimp.

[@jimmorgan8688]

The mental gymnastics!

[@peejay4606]

Whooooo hoooo get him Matt!!!!!!

[@jaymorgan8013]

Carolina Matthew back for more.

[@billheuber5884]

YEAH BABY!! PREACH MATT!! Jk! Like all your vids and loved this one!! 👍👍😉👏

[@DogOfKrondor]

7.36 He has discussed with athiests for years. Heard the same things repeatedly. sounds familiar, just can't put my finger on it.......

[@EustaBAracer]

Im sure "discussed with atheists for years" really means "I went to rightwing and christian leaning social media and they told me what atheists believe."

[@nonoozabletodogmaisaiah4577]

This is invaluable for showing how stupid some people can be. "Do you, an atheist, believe that God...?" WTF?

[@saphrix4587]

I don’t think this caller heard anything either of them said.

[@cwdor]

Hayyyyy Mat..... you are doing a great job for Jahovah... keep up the good work.

[@JM-ot8ux]

Love his reggae, Ja Hovah.

[@rodzalez3549]

I must say Tracy is a looker 😉

[@jaymercha3859]

smart is cute.

[@nathancooper1]

Yeah she is.

[@m9frank]

creepy

[@rikardotsamsiyu]

"Is there any point in having a conversation with a Christian if you wouldn't worship God anyways?" Yes because... (1) there is a distinction between belief and worship. When most Christians debate atheists, it's usually about God's existence, not the worship of God. (2) atheism means lack of belief in gods, not lack of worship. God-worship is theolatry, not theism, so maybe you should call the atheolater experience.

[@Multi1628]

~ Hillbilly accents, haughty British accents, strident accents from people purporting to be calling from India, etc. etc. etc. - without being seen, many many of the callers consistently seem to be representative of the worst imaginable stereotypes of theists. Someone could write a book just on a lot of these callers, and their clear entitled patriarchy and their palpable desperation to defend it. Religion is largely by and for males, and therein lies a huge part of its dilemma and why religions will not prevail. Cheers, DAVEDJ ~

[@JM-ot8ux]

My favorite was Screaming Mimi and her, "I know because I know because I know."

[@jefferyballew9974]

Matt made a good point. Matt didn’t make a good point though.

[@brucebaker810]

I agree (?) I think Matt ate Matt's lunch for him.

[@EustaBAracer]

If it weren't for Matt, Matt would've really had a good argument.

[@philipinchina]

Thanks.