Difference between Software Developer and Software Engineer?

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Watch Tim's Free Learn to Code Course on KZbin! kzbin.info/aero/PLXtTjtWmQhg0N08o_oSaAantmQAu-1Xad

[@richamericano]

Did you track your logo to your t-shirt? Lol

[@gibbonbasher8171]

Sheryar Khan Did you mean 0:25? Or 0:24?

[@jakes-dev1337]

its not his office either, i didnt notice until i was looking for glitches though

[@sophiaethan5563]

Lolllllllll

[@lionelshaneyfelt5607]

definitely not ;)

[@jamieguthrie1760]

You know, I think even the office background is green screen..!

[@johnbspringer]

Software, Developer, Coder and Programmer These terms had hard distinctions pre-1980, in the days of main-frame computers. In those days the computing profession looked very different from today. Here are some of the differences: If you wanted time on the Main Frame your department was billed for the total number of CPU cycles that your program required to run to completion. Your program (a.k.a “job”) , never ran by itself but was run as part of a batch of other jobs through something known as JCL (Job Control Language). JCL scheduled your job to run at some scheduled time. Also, the resources that your JOB utilized (Modem, printer, tape storage) was also billed to your department. When, your job ran, you did not see the results first hand, but rather the results were saved to a file or printed and you were given the results after usually the next day.. If you are writing software your hand-written software would be submitted for compilation and your compile/run results would be given to you the next day. If you had a type or logic error,you would not know right away until you got your job results back at which time you would have to make the correction and resubmit the job and again for new results. As you can imaging writing, submitting, fixing and repeat is very tiresome and expensive. To correct this program, a coder was employed who was very experienced with the Main-frame. There were very few of those people in the company because only a select few were allowed access to these very expensive machines. The job of the coder was to type your hand-written script (called a code-sheet) into the main-frame. Today’s complex program would never have evolved if it was not for the development of the PC by IBM in 1981 (less expensive than main frame) and software interpreters offering instant error reporting. After the release of the personal computer by IBM in the 80s and Microsoft’s Windows operating system, many intelligent displaced workers seeking professional jobs found that programming computers was one of the few white collar high-salary jobs that could be obtained without a college degree. Because computers were becoming so prevalent and there were so few people that understood them, companies were hiring anybody that could program their computers. At this time the role of developer, coder and programmer was eventually filled by one person who was typically just called a computer programmer or software developer - but not an engineer. Then there came a time when the software programmer/developer became masters of their art and were hired into jobs that were heavily regulated by the government - think, Aerospace and Defense. The defense agencies and NASA had a requirement that only engineers were allowed to work on government contracts. In addition, most insurance companies providing coverage to engineering firms had the same requirement - only engineers were allowed to work on the design of the end-product. This engineering requirement prevented many companies from hiring extremely talented computer programmers/software developers that they needed. To counter act this problem, companies hired software developers/computer programmers and gave them the title of “Engineer”. Further more, because Software Engineer was not an officially regulated type of engineer there were no state recognized exams and license requirements. Of course this pissed of a lot of existing engineers who resented this free assignment of the title “Engineer”, but by the late 90’s this anger had largely passed and the term Software Engineer had become accepted. But the early 2000’s universities began to cash-in on the software craze and started offering degrees with a B.S in Computer Science. Depending on the University, these degrees often have a heavier math component than any other engineering degree. Think, Partial Diff-Eq, linear algebra, discrete mathematics, spherical trig as well as algorithm development. Old Terminology -------------------------- Developer - Translated customer needs and into software requirements for the programmer Programmer -The designer of the software Coder - Glorified typist and entrusted of the main frame Computer Engineer - Electrical engineer who build computer hardware Software Engineer - Developer + Coder that worked on gov contracts. New Terminology ----------------------------- Developer = Programmer = Coder = Someone who writes software code that is compiled. Software Engineer - Developer with a degree in Software Engineering or STEM or has equivalence experience. Computer Engineer - Electrical engineer who build computer hardware

[@MichaelRoberg]

These terms are used interchangeably to be frank. You can have a junior, intermediate, senior software engineer. Which is exactly the same as software developer j, I, s. Coder is very rarely used formally and is perhaps more slang.

[@scd6969]

That's right.. In my 20 years in IT, I have never seen instance where someone differentiated one from the other. So I think this discussion is really just a waste of time. And coder is indeed slang as it really doesn't mean much.. Code is code and anyone who deals with code can be considered a coder.. HTML code, Javascript, Java, python, etc. It really says very little about what the person actually does, only where they're situated in the bigger scheme of work.

[@Varksterable]

I would suggest 'senior software engineer' is very often used to mean someone who not only does all of the above, but is expected to provide a technical perspective on planning and schedule to a manager, and probably manage a team on a technical level too. Although in this context, it's often synonymous with 'software team lead' although a subtle difference there is that the latter is seldom involved in actually writing code. (In my experience; often despite the individual's desperate desire to actually do so.) For a field where absolute clarity, concrete logic and precision is required, I find it almost baffling that these terms are so vague. Maybe it's just a way of breaking free from all that hard-cold logical thinking for a bit.

[@hinkhall5291]

Even though I have been doing it for 15 years and am pretty good I never called myself an engineer since I have no actual engineer titles nor accreditations . Where I live all engineers joing an association of engineers and I have done no such thing. At best I earned a comp sci degree and took software engineering courses but that is not enough to make me an engineer. Engineers tend to have rigorously studied mathematics whereas I avoided calculus in university. In the field, I do the same architecting of infrastructure as other people who hold the engineer title but I personally just go by senior software developer and that is good enough for me.

[@coolnaeemdOoO]

That’s so slick with the T-shirt graphic/print!!

[@ColeTrainPhenomenalcrew]

Thank you for this you just helped me a lot for my major of computer science I’m gonna love software engineering cause it’s kinda best of both worlds with computer hardware which I love too

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Thanks for that, I'm glad you have found the content I produce to be useful!

[@beautifulgorgeous499]

Thank you this helped me a lot just gott pick a career

[@BoswAkay74u]

Yes the terms might be just thrown around or used interchangeably but I totally agree with how you've explained it

[@m4strock242]

What a great explanation, thank you so much.

[@rgenericson5361]

Try getting hired on at Boeing, Raytheon, Intel, Microchip etc. after trying to convince them that you're a software engineer because you know how to build websites and mobile apps. ; -)

[@b4u334]

As someone looking to potentially change career paths into programming / software architect, what are the first steps one should take?

[@TheGoodWin777]

Yes, I'd love to know as well!

[@Ali-lm7uw]

Learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript first. After that you could learn Python and Django or Node JS

[@AJtheEngiqueer]

For software architecture and for programming, look into learning Java, C++, Python and even Haskell or C. All are great and i would start in that order. 🥂❤️

[@AJtheEngiqueer]

If you want to be a backend engineer I would stray away from learning HTML, Javascript, CSS as main languages to learn & start with Java or C++🥂❤️

[@vinay4238]

Tim believe me i was waiting for your next tip of the day just for asking you the difference between software developer and engineer and what I got you comes up with this video this time you really amazed me...

[@TheDrapetomanic]

Tim has a superpower where he does that, he posted his Linux IntelliJ video right when I was about to install Linux on my laptop. He's a mindreader.

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Thanks for this, I appreciate it and am glad to be creating videos that help.

[@nerradyesloow]

great vid, thanks for sharing

[@KelValdez-IT]

What programming languages should i use if it comes to software engineering

[@angrysnek4445]

Java

[@FindStoicism]

Your shirt logo video effect is tripping me out lol

[@abdifatahwebdeveloper117]

Awesome clasification thanks

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

You are welcome!

[@dark_evil77]

I think these words are used interchangeably!

[@g.v.m7935]

Companies themselves dont know it, so I lost track what is what.

[@Geminis3505]

Thanks so much for the explanation !!

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

You are welcome!

[@TheMhankel]

Great explanations, Tim! I really like those short videos. #softwaredevelopment #newcareer #newskills #coding

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Thanks Marc!

[@ParadoxWorks]

I think your explanation is great! Thank you sir.

[@abdoualgerian5396]

thank you for this valuable info

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

No problem! Happy to help.

[@vivekrai5042]

Thanks Tim for another informative video

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

No problem!

[@alyssapoynor2202]

Who else feels a little uncomfy about the background for some reason?

[@Mr.Miller9]

Engineers make the architecture of the program. Designing. Implement. Thinking about the ways in which it works with machines. That’s an engineering prospective . Developers build on these things. Also. Pretty soon . Just getting 1 certificate and saying you’re an engineer will soon be obsolete . What are the other soft skills needed for project collaboration and things of that nature?

[@jahanzaibkhan2042]

Yes that helped. Thanks.

[@multani2258]

I have your python course on Udemy ! It's really amazing and understanding 😃♥️

[@lancevoorheestapestrichann9740]

What is the best way to contact you about a product endorsement?

[@mremperorrelix3785]

What would you called the one who lead the project ? Project manager ? And can a software Engineer became a project manager ?

[@NHF88]

Team Lead or Staff or Principal Software Engineer

[@alisher629]

Very helpful video, thanks!

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

You are welcome!

[@beerzerker6890]

Hi Tim. So I'm in this job for a year an four months now and during this period the manager switches me from project to project according to the company's needs. Specifically during this period I've switched 4 projects (5 actually but the two of them share the same code base - but for different client). All projects share the same business but from a different perspective. For example one is for the business and the other is for the user etc. BUT the underlying technologies are completely different. First one for example had Oracle database and reactive java, the other project is a mixture of JEE and Spring, the other had webflow and JSP and now I'm in a project with spring boot. The weird thing is that I signed in as a junior developer :-P My point is that I started getting tired of switching my mind from project to project and learning things all over again PLUS that for a respectable amount of time all I do is solving bugs so I can familiarize with the project. What would you suggest me to do? Leave this company ? Complain to the manager? Ask for a switch in another team with a more stable business ? Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you in advance!!

[@fredrrari]

Seems that you're learning a lot, what's the problem?

[@beerzerker6890]

@@fredrrari could not focus to a subject and learn it in depth. Anyways..changed job now

[@jonas-re4sk]

An Engineer is a person with Eng Background specialized in something. Part of the curriculum is to understand a lot of mathcs, physics, static, quimic, thermic, vectorial mechanic, materials resistance, cad, etc. And later in college 3rd to 6th semester they specialize in specific areas such as electronic, design of systems, automatization, aviation, automotive, networking, administration, electricity, construction, aeronautics, etc. A programmer is a person who learned how to code and creates software. It has no Eng Background and it has not specialization in any Eng Area. It is only called Engineer because the companies have been calling Engineers to any person who does some activities like programming, even if the person has no Eng background.

[@kodasgordan6027]

starts at 0:48

[@randomrandle9141]

Thnx

[@artianrika8329]

Tracked Logo in the t shirt, genius😂

[@anonymous_FoX]

Being an computer and software engineer is different to IT, Computer Science.. Their differences are level, difficulty and others.

[@watercat1248]

OK good to know now that if I'm sftwear engineer I disasing the sftwear that sounds esyer for the sftwer development for my

[@lvsreddy6553]

lucid explaination sir....

[@RusuTraianCristian]

I find it even easier: a software architect does the architecting and the design, a software developer writes code. A software engineer must know and does them all.

[@yad2917]

You don't know what you're talking about. @Michael Roberg comment is correct. I've been in the industry for 20 years. These terms are interchangeable

[@DeadlyRevenged]

it is normal to see programmers with 55 years old or more working? I am 24 years old and I would like to work here until I am 67 years old and that's why....

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

I know many people around my age (I am 56) working. To be fair many are in management which is a natural consequence of age and many years of experience. but I also know people who decided to stick to programming and avoid management and still working today. It's key to maintain your skills and stay relevant. For example if you had started out in the 1960's you probably worked with Fortran and Cobol. If you never learned another language or technology, then those skills would make it harder to get work in 2021. You can still find work in those languages, but having skills in other languages and technologies opens up more options for you.

[@SiKeeble]

It was brave to try and categorise these job titles as every coder / developer / engineer / programmer has a different idea of what the terms mean. There are no blurring of the lines, we just don’t all agree. Call yourself what you like...after a couple of years put ‘senior’ in front of it ;-) I question the value of videos like this.

[@johnpmaus1798]

Whether the terms are interchangeable or not doesn't matter to me. Generally, I do find most places I've interviewed and worked at don't care. However, I liked how Tim got those gears turning in our heads. He used the word engineer as what it is used for in most other industries... the designer, the architect, etc. It may not have much value in technicality, but it does have value in how we think.

[@zeno_aratus]

developer = engineer. In all situations they are one and the same. with junior, intermediate, senior engineer. software architect will be part of the team that deals with the customer and architects the solution and communicates that to the dev team.

[@SC-kd5ln]

That logo came to everyone's mind

[@elliotbazuaye9855]

Love your Java video

[@cuzcohusky3533]

Thank you

[@ninjazhu]

You dont consider companies who develop software as software developers?

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Not really - in general the term applies to humans who developer the code. Technically you are correct a company can be a software developer. I just don't hear them called that very often.

[@harrybanda]

Guess I'm a software engineer then, I thought I was just a programmer 😅

[@diaryofpain6303]

What do you do?

[@zainebhidoussi1498]

U should have thought about the word "engineer" in what ur doing

[@shayaxelrod7691]

You forgot to mention the academic level that is required to be called an Engineer.

[@shayaxelrod7691]

@Evil Potato of the Darkness That's on the quality of the university. Not all degrees were made equal. An Engineering degree from Stanford is worth more than a degree from, let's say, UCR. And there are apparent reasons for why that is. Your argument is one of them. Engineers from MIT/ Stanford/ ... statistically do better during their junior years as young engineers.

[@binayakshrestha1085]

Will the Bachelor Degree in Software Development help me in future?

[@BringerOfDeath12]

yes it would

[@t.k.santhosh4787]

Your hand goes behind the logo

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Busted :)

[@t.k.santhosh4787]

@@TheLearnProgrammingChannel 😁 I am your Python master class student in udemy

[@zathkal4004]

Hi Jim, Thanks for all your lovely informative videos. I'm a self taught newbie software developer (around 2 years now) with only 5 months of professional experience currently based in her Are there many similar opportunities in Australia for such developers ? Thanks .. zath

[@zathkal4004]

*Tim

[@БоббиАкс]

hi grandy!

[@johnsims6341]

I actually have TOO MUCH TALENT and hate the current state of the industry

[@Sulimankhayyat]

No, developers use tools made by engineers.

[@salaufer]

spoiler: literally nothing

[@ConnoisseurOfExistence]

coder = brogrammer < web developer < software developer = software engineer = computer programmer < data scientist = ML engineer < AI researcher.

[@lordmoriartea7799]

wat do u mean by this?

[@ConnoisseurOfExistence]

@@lordmoriartea7799 levels of competency and prestige

[@ivoriankoua3916]

@@ConnoisseurOfExistence I agree with that , where would you put quant dev in this hierachy then ?

[@kudzijamesrusike]

So software engineers create the languages, tools, libraries and frameworks for a software developers to use. Software engineers I think solve complex universal problems such as performance, security and scalability. Hence they build libraries and frameworks which lay foundation for businesses to build tools, software and services custom to their business rules. Software developers translate business rules into software and systems using languages, libraries, tools and frameworks built by software engineers.

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Well, software engineers don't exclusively write the languages/tookls/libraries/frameworks for developers. Often developers are part of that process as well. Engineers do tend to be at a high level of skill, but there is plenty of overlap between the two.

[@kudzijamesrusike]

@@TheLearnProgrammingChannel I hear you thank you. I think at some point you even mentioned software engineers tend to do the work of software developers as well. The overlap can be the same person doing both kind of thing.

[@haseebs.7286]

This is the best comment. I agree with the distinction you made on the business roles. I’d just add: Software Engineering is more of a systematic methodology toward software development. Hypothetically, software can be developed like abstract art but with modern tooling like Git/GitHub, the engineering methodology is becoming intrinsic to software development. In other words, Software Engineering has been an attempt to apply traditional engineering process controls to software development.

[@xamael1989]

If this terms overlap then there no point of calling them Developers and Software Engineers based of skill differences to me there all computer Programmers with different aptitudes the same can't be said when civil engineers have different aptitude there all Civil Engineers regardless

[@xamael1989]

@@haseebs.7286 very true

[@gokhanatlgan6030]

Thank you but, why you are talking so fast? I can't catching words even substitution. I don't speak or listening English very much as you know my writing 🙂. It's has been difficult for me.

[@teresaanderson7384]

cool

[@Diamond_Hanz]

Well damn..guess im just a coder

[@sour3000]

Coder Peasant😂😂😂😂

[@HollywoodF1]

So a software engineer is a designer. He does everything that a designer does from project lead, design manager, development, and implementation. Engineers such as civil, mechanical, aerospace, structural, electrical, chemical, and all the other non-software professions do all these things as well, with one important difference: All other engineers deal in the fundamental forces of nature. Materials science, physics, chemistry, and so on. Ohm’s Law, Hooke’s Law, the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics, Coulomb’s Law, the Law of Gravity. A software engineer would only use these relationships to assist an actual engineer in his work. It’s the lack of connection to the fundamental forces of nature that leads to software engineers not being real engineers. A better term would be Software Designer since the design process perfectly describes the actual work done.

[@dan1523]

Lol the shirt 😂

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Glad you like it!

[@melvinjisieike7889]

Clarity

[@Mankind5490]

The logo on your shirt is bugging me out lol

[@jakes-dev1337]

his hands go under it sometimes, pretty good way to save on shirts

[@gleisonvieiraa]

Should I print a shirt for my KZbin channel 🤔 ? Oh f**** it, let`s just photoshop the logo on the video lol

[@tradingjournal9466]

♥️

[@TheLearnProgrammingChannel]

Thanks!

[@leeoiou7295]

I hate the term software "engineer". programming is not engineering by any stretch of the imagination. Engineers understand laws of physics build upon that to create structures and machines. This desperation from programmers wanting to be called something they are not only smells like good old fashioned insecurity. Hell, I've even heard some people who do UI/UX with adobe XD or React call themselves "engineers". I think this is demeaning and insulting to the engineering position that has existed for centuries. I am a proud programmer with decades of experience and I do not wish to be called an "engineer" because that is not what I do.

[@sushmitathapa4232]

Nice

[@ivoriankoua3916]

Was just wondering , which qualifation is appropriate for a Quant Dev , would you consider him an eventual engineer or not ?

[@rcalphonse2701]

Nice office bro

[@djoserw4280]

I want to buy a t shirt !!!

[@djangodev]

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They are the same thing.

[@NASAKT]

Andaikan q ngerti dy ngmng ap. Haha

[@ifstatementifstatement2704]

Are they not all the same thing? Lol.

[@MohamedAhmed-fv4gw]

just get to the POINT sir pls and get a shirt with your logo lol

[@huzaifchaudhary3901]

Software Engineer= like software developer= comment

[@talha1484]

:D