Differences between LFP vs NMC Battery Chemistry for EVs in Australia

[@LudicrousFeed]

With thanks to our sponsors: carloop - Aus EV Data | carloop.com.au Hankook Tyres | www.hankooktire.com

[@lijukochappan]

What is the advantage of purchasing a long-range car with NMC batteries if it can only be charged up to 80%, as opposed to buying a low-range base model with LFP that can be charged to 100%?

[@LudicrousFeed]

There’s also the theoretical increased power delivery with NMC batteries also … although LFP is no slouch!

[@budawang77]

It's ok to charge NMC to 100% from time to time for road trips.

[@solidus784]

you can charge them to 100% its just best practice not to charge above 80% unless you have to, most people do like 30 miles a day so it really doesnt matter

[@JYLFishing]

On a long distance or road trips, long range NMC batteries charged to 100% means you may get to your destination without a charging stop or less charging stops. At Superchargers, NMC batteries also charge faster. LFP charged to 100% is to address its shortcomings (recalibration). You are not doing any good by charging any Lithium Ion batteries to 100% regularly. In most everyday driving not many people need 100% range regardless of chemistry. I say go NMC if you have the option and within your budget.

[@cfmc6201]

Huge weight difference NMC being lighter

[@GrandPa_BBQer_Game_Cat]

Hey Tom. I went the MG4 basic because of the LFP battery. Safer, 100% chargeable. Also have a 10KW LFP home battery. This was a great vid for newcomer's needing to consider what they want. Currently I think I would only upgrade based on future info we get on solid state battery's.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! I understand it’s a huge topic which can get very technical very quickly but hopefully I’ve condensed it down to the essentials when making a decision between the two different types!

[@GrandPa_BBQer_Game_Cat]

@LudicrousFeed That you have, well done Tom.

[@alf699]

Agree 100%. Our current EV6 uses NMC batteries. Our 2nd car will replace the ICE with a Hybrid that uses LFP batteries. And at home I have 50KWh of LFP Home Storage batteries. Solid state my guess is about 7~8years away before it hits the lower cost (average vehicles). There are already some in real world testing and even usage. But when they come out in mass production, they 1st will go into the high end cars (due to cost) and then it will take a few years before they show up in the lower ends.

[@marcustiver5635]

Thanks Tom, very informative. I drive at a Tesla 2021 Model 3 SR+ with LFP battery and I live at Woombye on the Sunshine coast. This year I drove to Adelaide through Hay, and then to Cairns. I charged to 80% with fast chargers and 100% overnight with destination chargers (AC Wall chargers). I never had any range anxiety but there were times when I did get down to between 5 and 10% SOC. The car was really good at calculating the SOC to where I needed to charge, and having all the apps like PlugShare, Chargefox and Tesla, charging was a breeze. I mostly charged between 300 to 400 kilometres and I was quite surprised how quickly it charged to 80%. I carry a little fridge for making lunch, (cold meats salad and cheese) and usually the car is charged before I finish my sandwich or wrap and drunk my coffee. What charging stations need are picnic tables where people can make lunch and relax out of the car. Toilets would be handy but quite often there are no facilities near by. Many times I've made lunch on the concrete plinth to what the supercharger is bolted to.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I agree, it would be great if some of the charging stops had better amenities surrounding them 🙏

[@lm3718]

Great video - LFP is a clear winner for me (esp. as it advances). Solid, or semi-solid state batteries will be on the watch list though.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yes I’ll be watching SS Batteries with great anticipation …

[@abebegirmay3327]

There is a lot of research and upgrading of LFP batteries, for example CATL Shenxing Plus LFP, BYD blade v2 battery, The Golden battery from Geely alle these LFP batter have significant range and makes it exciting for the future. If such battery comes to the market I think LFP will be the one to dominate and used often in the future but the issue is it is heavy and they don't use it in Dual motor or all wheel type of Vehicle and hopefully these new LFP will be lighter than the current ones.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Agreed. The future is exciting with LFP developments and if they enter our market I’ll have to update this vid 🙏

[@nurbsenvi]

LFP is actually an underrated hero.

[@LudicrousFeed]

🏆

[@captaindasbomb6862]

I do discharge my NMC battery to below 20% & charge it up to 100% every 3 months to cell balance & calibrate it. Doesn't seem to have any noticeable degradation as I'm still charging once week & staying within the 80% to 30% range over 250-300km of driving.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I’d say most people would accept that 3 months is a reasonable frequency to calibrate an NMC pack

[@honesty_-no9he]

Yes NMC needs that you are doing the correct thing.

[@rodlister3098]

Cobalt is used in the refining of Jurassic juice…..

[@banethor]

Good summary, confirming most of what I've already known from watching your videos. Should have maybe mentioned how NMC long range batteries end up being equivalent in range to LFP cause of the charging constraint on most days :) Looking forward to the EV5 review

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! EV5 review should be dropping soon …

[@doyleelad1113]

That is true for daily use. The big difference comes in road trip charging times. Extra range if you do decide to charge to 100 in the Lange range and faster charging, 0to 80 in the longe range is a lot faster than a 0 to 100 charge in the rear drive LFP. An example using the tesla trip planner the trip from Melbourne to Brisbane in the longrange is 3hrs 35mins of charging, the rear drive LFP is 5hrs 5mins of charging. The extra $10k you also get a front motor for all wheel drive, better acceleration performance, a better battery for cold weather, and minor interior differences, speakers and door trims.

[@LudicrousFeed]

@@doyleelad1113 Good summary for LR/NMC use case. If time is money ….

[@alexzannoni1501]

Keep the info coming Tom. I'm very interested in solid state batteries......will they be the game changer????👍👍👍

[@LudicrousFeed]

If the price comes down, they will be

[@lavectech]

I'm a fan of the LFP packs in the Model Y, enough space for a larger pack. MG4 LFP model is a bit on the smaller size with the limited area.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Great to see bigger LR LFP packs in cars that can support them eg BYD Seal, Kia EV5

[@toriwatson9655]

CATL are pushing LFP up to around 200 wh/kg, so the energy density difference is getting less I believe. For me the extra cycle life is the important thing. Electric motors have so few moving parts so their potential maintenance free life span is huge, so you want a battery that will last a long long time. I think if you're buying second hand, LFP is the way to go.

[@fatdoi003]

great... the battery pack can be 25% lighter..... say a Seal battery weighs 560kg.... new battery will be 420kg... that's 2 people's weight

[@doyleelad1113]

There's a second part to battery life that is often overlooked calendar life. There is cycle life and calendar life.

[@toriwatson9655]

@@doyleelad1113 You are correct, I've looked into this quite a bit and there is no simple answer. If batteries are left fully charged a lot in hot weather then resting degradation can be significant. If they are sitting mostly at around nominal voltage, degradation is quite low. It should be talked about more.

[@p.goonan7569]

Thanks Tom, very informative.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@stuart4858]

Love your work Tom. Stuart from Sydenham Vic

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thank you! 🙏

[@ClimateTalk-sx8ed]

Great video. Liked and Subscribed!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks!

[@ControlPro]

Hi Tom. My 2021 M3P has 82KW NMC battery. Agree that it is very good - long range - I drove from Sydney to Mudgee and back without charge (about 500 k's). Brilliant. No problem (yes I know way back it is almost all downhill and regen is doing its thing.) Not so sure about LFP though and its regen capability. Have flown DJI drones for over 15 years now with LFP tech batteries. Not good long term as they deteriorate much more rapidly. Be prepaired to replace your batteries. Battery tech though has come a long way in a short period of time. Cobalt is still king ATM in my humble opinion. Will be happy to see what happens in the next few years! Yes have battery robot lawnmower (4 years now), battery lawn mower, leaf blower, vacuum cleaner, etc, etc, hahaha) Everything is powered from solar panels and my Tesla wall battery (inc car). I went from paying $1500 per quarter to about $5.00 per quarter. Haven't paid for petrol in years (wish so for cigarettes - they now cost me over $6000 per quarter) - smoking costs more. (Well in Austrakia anyway - might have to move anyware else like in Thailand a packet costs $5 versus Australia $66

[@MatthewBayard]

Our Model 3 RWD LFP does get regen limited more that a NMC car but not enough to really care. Spending an extra $10,000 to get the Model 3 LR is a lot of paid charging. You only go further in the LR if you don't have to stop at all to charge. If your trip requires a few stops than both the rwd and LR will take about the same time.

[@sootoongkok]

Tom, good info for EV buyers, well done. Perhaps you should tell us about which battery is better for cold climate.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Pleasure! The general consensus is that NMC performs better in the cold however companies like CATL in China are doing some interesting things with cold weather testing for their LFP batteries

[@tjmckay_4751]

Thanks for that Tom. Appreciate the time you spent to make it. It reinforces my choice of the base Model Y that uses an LTP battery. Unlike a PHEV that I was thinking of getting (the BYD Shark), I'll only need to charge my Y 2 to 3 times a week (300km travelled Mon-Fri) using a granny charger. With one of those days trying to get to 100%.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Pleasure 🙏 Luckily the Shark 6 also uses the Blade/FinDreams battery which is LFP

[@jacobpaint]

If your car battery is 9yrs old I guess it might be getting closer to needing to be replaced although you’re taking better care of it so maybe you’ll get longer use out of it. How many more years do you think it will last? At least when it does reach it’s end you can do an indepth analysis of how long it lasted and how much you sell the old battery for.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yes will definitely share! It’s 40% into its available cycles (with assumptions in mind) so it will hopefully last at least another 110000km+ Here’s my recent analysis: Original Tesla Model S 70D Battery Degradation and Cycle Life Analysis kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGawfqmwgMl-nKc

[@addsfour3499]

Great summary, what car r u driving? EV5?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yup Kia EV5 with an LFP battery … review coming soon! 😁

[@rinbine2713]

LFP developed to use for ESS(Energy Storage Systems). NMC developed to use for EV. LFP is very vulnerable to low temperatures. On the other hand, NMC is more resistant to cold compared to LFP, which is why it's used in ESS. Why won't Tesla use LFP again in the Model 3 sold in the U.S.? It's because of the Chicago incident last year

[@GDM22]

Colder temparatures may have been an issue for LFP batteries in the past but the intelligent battery managment system with the addition of heat pumps and pre coditioning have removed some of those concerns. I have watched Bjorn Ny;land do 1000km challenges in the RWD Tesla's in temparatures as low as -28 degrees celcius without issues and still getting better efficiency than the NMC versions. Tesla are not using LFP in the US because the battery's are Chinese made and therefore the cars are not eligible for the EV tax incentive and in fact could be subject to 100% tarrifs, therefore they cannot be provided cost effectively to the customer.

[@jenghowtan5268]

@@rinbine2713 I think you are wrong here. Tesla switched to NMC for RWD due to tariff and tax rebate for the buyer

[@GDM22]

@@rinbine2713 With regards to temperatures in Australia higher temperatures are much more of a concern than the extremely mild winters. LFP batteries are better able to cope with heat.

[@brucejankowitz4501]

I wonder if the battery cycling should consider typical usage, 10-80 rather than full discharge and charge.

[@LudicrousFeed]

A cycle is the equivalent of a full charge and discharge so although 10-80 is only 70% it will take into account the additional 30% from your next charge to make up a full cycle. And so on …

[@pltr39]

With lower voltage in the LFP pack generally less prone to fire than the NMC pack, but NMC less weight for pack when rated same size lets say 60kW

[@LudicrousFeed]

Correct, this is where the density comes into play - you get more energy pound for pound with NMC. I must stress again that although there is a slight increased risk of thermal instability with NMC batteries, the overall risk of EV fires when compared to ICE fires is 20-100x less depending on which source you read

[@briannewman6216]

It would be interesting to know what the cycle life of an NMC Li ion battery was on a cycle where the battery was charged to 80% for 90% of the time and to 100% for 10% of the time. A battery cycle pattern of 18 cycles of charging to 80% followed by 2 cycles charging to 100% would give an indication of what the life of a battery would be where the battery is charged most of the time to 80% and occasionally to 100% for long trips.

[@LudicrousFeed]

There are a finite number of cycles in any given EV battery regardless of chemistry. Charging NMC to 80% most days will give it the best chance of utilising as much of the original capacity of the cell (degradation) but not increase the number of cycles. Hope that makes sense

[@zelig9625]

A lot of people seem to think LFP batteries are better because you can charge them regularly to 100%. However, the only reason you are told to charge an LFP battery regularly to 100% (at least weekly) is because you NEED to do that in order to regularly re-calibrate the battery so the vehicle can provide an accurate estimate of the battery's current State of Charge (SOC). If it weren't for this calibration requirement, the best practice advice for longevity of an LFP battery would be similar to that of an NMC battery, ie don't charge regularly to 100%. See this video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWLdfJl_hrqEY9U

[@LudicrousFeed]

I would agree with this sentiment … charge to calibrate the BMS

[@mickjoebills]

@@zelig9625If calibration is so important an issue then the advice would be to also run battery down to 15% (to calibrate)as frequently as charging to 100%. The reason manufacturers state it’s ok to charge LFP to 100% is because range is far more important than a minuscule increase in rate of degradation.

[@martiruda]

I feel like everything's being said about LFP with the 80% charge will be also somewhat debunked. The batteries of the nissan leaf are working way better than what was initially foreseen. The key is about cooling the battery efficiently.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Liquid cooling is the key

[@catherinegrimes2308]

I keep my cars about 11 years and think that an LFP battery would be better for my needs. I do mostly short distances, but would like a range of 250+ miles. This effectively limits my choice in the UK to BYD cars.

[@LudicrousFeed]

LFP is great for daily usage. XPeng? MG?

[@catherinegrimes2308]

@@LudicrousFeed The only MG4 that uses LFP has a short range. I don't think that XPengs are sold in the UK yet and it took BYD over a year to establish a reasonable dealership structure and it will probably take XPeng some time to set up theirs. It looks like the XPeng G6 will be coming to the UK, but is a bit big for my needs. Also my car will be 11 years old in January and is due for replacement next year. A Dolphin is more my style.

[@AndrewSheldon]

I think it matters where or when your vehicle catches fire. ICE on highway. EV possibly while charging in garage/home, or on ship.

[@LudicrousFeed]

The three EVs that have caught fire so far in homes in Australia have been due to an external source that has spread to the car. Of course it’s only a small sample size so we will keep monitoring …

[@AndrewSheldon]

@LudicrousFeed by external source, you mean a tesla power wall or e-scooter?

[@kimhannagan8651]

If would be fare to say the NMC battery last longer than the car?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Like anything in life, look after anything well and it will look after you

[@robertimrie3710]

Hey Tom, you picked a tricky topic. I recall Imogen of FC talking to a UK company doing battery tech and the engineer she was speaking to said he was only an expert in one aspect and his chemist business partner was the opposite. In short, you picked a hairy topic....and by the way rare earths aren't actually rare ( Euan McTurk). For me the vibe is LFP for small packs unless you want a lighter sports car and NMC for bigger long range cars. LG is a different matter simply because they come up again and again in recalls and fires, which unfortunately has somewhat put me off the Inster which has an LG NMC pack, just through an abundance of caution. If I were you I would be pointing to authoritive sources rather than going too deep on this stuff. Add tech links to this video for people who want a deeper dive. Cheers.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the feedback - it’s definitely an emerging/developing field and I guess I should qualify my video by saying this applies to the batteries that we currently see in Australia. Clearly there is a lot of ongoing R&D happening in China which we’ll need to update as we see them enter our market

[@gregb1599]

Well our 2 year old Kia EV6 is lasting ok so far and no LFP in that car! 230kw peak charging speed and average 170kw till around 70%. We had it serviced a few months ago, and battery health dropped to 100%!

[@TassieEV]

Great video Tom, what about NCA chemistry?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! My understanding is that the performance of NCA is similar to NCM but is slightly more sustainable given Aluminium is used instead of Manganese

[@ksongministry]

Initially, I thought LMC batteries were a waste of money since you’re essentially using only 80% of their capacity, which ends up matching the range of LFP batteries at 100%. My take was that all battery charging speeds drop significantly between the 80-100% mark, and LFP batteries will be much slower to charge fully to 100% to achieve the same range. The extra 20% capacity in LMC batteries provides more flexibility for occasional longer trips, and their higher energy density also translates to greater torque and power compared to LFP batteries.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Just to clarify also that the slowdown in charging speeds for both chemistries only apply to DC. When it comes to AC, they’ll both actually hold their rate up until almost 100%

[@doyleelad1113]

​​​@@LudicrousFeedYes correct the slower AC charging rate done at home will see no real difference in the 80 to 100 % part of charging as its already at a slow rate. Model 3 standard range vs long range choice will come down to personal needs and budget. The extra $10k gets you the front motor for all wheel drive, faster acceleration performance, a better battery for cold weather, longer range when needed and a slight difference in interior with regards to speakers and door trims. The standard range LFP battery has arguably a longer life span, although there are many factors that can affect battery longevity. Importantly if you do charge to 100% with the NMC battery only charge to 100% when you are pretty much going to use it in the immediate future, don't charge to 100% then store the battery at 100% state of charge for weeks/months at a time if you want to achieve the greatest life for your battery.

[@l33tr4n55]

LFP 3000 cycle life ~ let say I charge it everyday ~ 365 days a year ~ 8 years worth... after that I can hook it up to a EV DC charger with V2H and use it as the house powerbank... 2nd life... Can't do it with ICE car

[@LudicrousFeed]

That’s it

[@tommilk4888]

more than that,

[@tommilk4888]

A complete discharge followed by a charge is considered a cycle, and charging from 20% to 100% is not considered a cycle. Therefore, if you maintain a good charging habit, you can use LFP almost permanently.

[@LudicrousFeed]

You can prolong the life of the car (by length of time) by using less of each full charge but of course there are only a finite number of cycles for each battery

[@johnnyrutherford2]

⁠​⁠@@LudicrousFeedif an 20-80% charge cycle is not a complete discharge, wouldn’t this imply that people could cycle almost infinitely (if they just stay within this range)? Can you clarify what constitutes a cycle?

[@doyleelad1113]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWLdfJl_hrqEY9Usi=ks5gPMxnV_Y3jjZJ An interesting video on battery longevity and charging practices.

[@3Pang]

The calendar life of NMC batteries is significantly longer than that of LFP batteries.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Are you referring to cycle life?

[@3Pang]

@ Not really, calendar life of a lithium battery is the time it can retain capacity and performance, influenced by aging factors like temperature and chemical stability, even without frequent use.

[@3Pang]

@@LudicrousFeed Although it is highly controversial, your Model S should be a great example.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I suppose LFP in EVs hasn’t been long enough to demonstrate this claim … time will tell 👍

[@GDM22]

I would be interested where you are sourcing that information from, I have never seen that stated, only that NMC has higher degradation which naturally involves a mix of calendar ageing and cycle and SOC effects. Also information from realworld Tessie data shows LFP degrading slower than the Model S batteries whilst the Model Y and R NMC battery's degrading around twice as fast. The chemical bond within LFP battery's are much stronger than those within NMC so it just makes sense they are more robust and longer lasting.

[@dann5515]

LFP v NMC Longevity = LFP Performance = NMC (around 5%-10% better performances power than LFP) Weight lighter = NMC Can charge up 100% anytime worry free = LFP

[@LudicrousFeed]

With the caveat that longevity is equivalent if you look after the NMC by charging it to 80% most days

[@dann5515]

@@LudicrousFeed what bothering people is that people get this in their head for not getting fully 100% charge for the safety reason. Is like what is the point of getting the long range when you being told best to be charged up to 80%. And if u charged up 100% u will worry. So, for normal people they so afraid to fully charged up 100% regularly worrying about the big drop degrading battery life. Just go for LFP worry free and definitely zero mind toxic about 80%.

[@SS-yw7vo]

Rate earths aren't rare

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thank you for the clarification

[@oarsume]

Hey. Can you wear your seat belt properly please 😮😊 Thanks for the video! 😊

[@LudicrousFeed]

Pleasure 🙏 Watch the vid again … this is the least tangled way to wear the belt. If I twist it in either direction it would then be tangled

[@honesty_-no9he]

A lot of people on here have very OUTDATED notions about LFP such as it charges slower or its no good in the cold. CATL Shenxing LFP battery 4C charging at -20C at same speed as +10C CATL Shenxing Plus LFP battery same as above only with 205 Wh/kg Zeekr/GEELY Short-Blade LFP Battery 192 Wh/kg with 5C peak charging and 2.5C average on the curve. Even the top spec version of the pure electric BYD SEALION 7 with a 90+kWh pack offers 230kW charging with Blade Battery 2:0 at 800 volts. 192 Wh/kg. The mid and entry level are 400 volt and likely the prior generation batteries. BTW NO a 60kWh NMC battery is not better than a 60kWh LFP because in addition to the 80% rule NMC also has a larger unused out of reach buffer. The issue use to be weight but the weight issue on LFP has now been narrowed massively.

[@LudicrousFeed]

LFP developments in China definitely have to be taken into account … will be worth updating this vid in a few months to years

[@abebegirmay3327]

I agree these LFP batteries (Shenxing Plus LFP, Blade battery 2 and Golden battery from Geely) are what I am excited to see. Unfortunately they are not used much, even BYD is not using its blade battery 2 in all their cars but may be in 1 or two which are expensive to afford. If these new LFP batteries start to be used in most cars then it will be another story but everything is related to price.

[@honesty_-no9he]

@@abebegirmay3327 As I have said SEALION 7 must have new battery in the top spec. What we do know is that the forthcoming TESLA MODEL Y REFRESH will have CATL SHENXING I suspect standard SHENXING on entry and mid then SHENXING PLUS on the Performance. TESLA has surrendered their Battery Day ambitions...CATL did a better job...Drew left TESLA.

[@honesty_-no9he]

@@abebegirmay3327 I left the Church of TESLA long ago but once TESLA is selling tens of thousands of cars with new gen LFP the pressure on everyone else to near or match and in some cases better the example will be on across the industry.

[@abebegirmay3327]

@@honesty_-no9he I dont think Tesla will use LFP battery on performance rather I am guessing they will use their own battery 4680 as they have been experimenting a lot on it and recently came news that they managed to find the problem they were facing on it. My guess is that battery or similar goes to long range and performance while the standard ones both model 3 and Y will use LFP but cheaper ones. They already said in 2025 there will be updated LFP batteries for both standard M3 & MY. The current standard MY from Giga Berlin uses BYD blade battery but not the second generation so in the future they might use it. Tesla is trying to sell cars at cheaper price and using the new Shenxing or Shenxing Plus will increase the price which will make it difficult to sell. I dont think Tesla will invest so much money on new LFP batteries for their already best selling car Model Y they will make refresh but not change that much rather their main focus is FSD, RoboTaxi and RoboVan. One example, M3 highland have the same battery and motor as previous one (2022-2023) but the rest of the car is changed which made the car more efficient and better aerodynamic and I do think they will do the same with MY refresh then after some years prices for LFP and other batteries will drop and they will try to use the new batteries. If you change the car plus battery then its the same like producing totally new car which makes it expensive

[@stizzygrayson5541]

So LFP good. NMC bad.

[@LudicrousFeed]

It’s complicated

[@BrentonSmythesfieldsaye]

What?........Did you even listen to the video content? LFP vs NMC simply presents a different mix of pros and cons. Everything, I mean everything, has pros and cons. All people need to do, once armed with the information Tom has presented, is make a judgement on the battery type that they think would best suit their overall EV use case. Why are people often so eager to dispense with nuance & detail, instead willing to adopt unsophisticated perspectives, such as one bad, the other good? That is not what Tom just described.

[@honesty_-no9he]

I really wish people would listen to my advice on LFP....stop saying IRON and use the correct term FERRO. LFP Lithium Ferro Phosphate...the subtitles generated by KZbin proves my reasoning....it wrote "ion" instead or "iron". Media gets this confused all the time and people speak with different accents and pronunciations that easily can confuse IRON and ION. No such confusion will ever happen with FERRO and that is the F in LFP!

[@LudicrousFeed]

That’s why I wanted to be clear at the start of my video what the second word actually is

[@johnbentley6925]

Ferrous

[@lm3718]

I don't mind people using either - Iron is much more well known to people than Ferro.

[@jimmybrad156]

Why not use petrol car

[@LudicrousFeed]

Why not use electric car

[@FearTec]

One point of an EV is not pay for fuel at 20x price per range. $6 for 550km range at home for 8c a kWh. If I had solar it would be way cheaper

[@jimmybrad156]

@@FearTec Well just make sure it's LFP not NMC for safety's sake. Also longevity. Just don't damage it by running over a rock :)

[@GDM22]

@@jimmybrad156 Tom, has done a very comprehensive video on EV battery safety based on real world data, perhaps you should watch that if you are interested on commenting on the subject.

[@jimmybrad156]

@@GDM22 petrol cars are lighter, safer, faster to refuel, better for environment ☺

[@jimmybrad156]

Regarding fire risk, NMC are bad enough in power tools let alone a friggin car. Not worth the risk. Stats suggesting ice cars are riskier is misleading at best. Petrol fires are way more tame and cool in comparison.

[@luisarthurv.9442]

According to MSB data, there are nearly 611,000 EVs and hybrids in Sweden (2022). With an average of 16 EV and hybrid fires per year, there's a 1 in 38,000 change of fire. There are a total of roughly 4.4 million gas -and diesel- powered passenger vehicles in Sweden, with an average of 3,384 fires per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. That means gas -and diesel- powered passenger vehicles are 29 times more likely to catch fire than EVs and hybrids.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Here’s my update on passenger EV fires in Australia: Battery Electric Vehicle Fires in Australia November 2024 Update kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4jOq2Wsr52qZ5Y

[@jimmybrad156]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/poPTXq2ohq-sobc

[@SS-yw7vo]

Child labour has tp be a lot cheaper and therefore better for everyone

[@GForce162]

child labour, as in Texas

[@GDM22]

Cobalt is used in the refining of petrol, I assume you just ride a bike or walk everywhere.

[@profdraper]

My god, do we really need to go through this again? Did something just happen with some kind of surge? This info & reputable studies have been out there for at least the last five years or so. After having owned both NMC & LFP EVs, now I would ever go back to NMC & the operational issues are obvious (again, duck-duck-go it, is not complicated). The primary thing I have noticed in the last 5 years of EVs: Chinese EVs are jus blowing it away in terms of leaning on & developing LFP even further, CATL & BYD in particular. Meanwhile the rest of the manufacturers pretty much do the same old NMC - Korea, Germany etc. Likely because of a better cost break & production costs & any lack of inertia to do otherwise. Only a very few offer the choice of LFP in shorter range EVs, NMC in longer; mostly Chinese again but with a couple of exceptions like the Mach-E & Teslas.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yes I think it’s worth revisiting regularly particularly as more people become interested in EVs, it’s good to provide an update and to show what’s currently under development in places like China