Digging Deep Into The Drum Sound From Toto - Rosanna

*Use good headphones 🎧 or speakers for best audio quality*
Ok, so yesterday would have been Jeff Porcaro’s 66th b-day and I honestly didn’t feel right posting this on the same day and funny enough, I didn’t time it to be done by then but it just worked out that way. As I mention in the video, I never wanted this to be another “cover” - there are a million of those out there. So I muted the lead vocal and instead, this is my attempt at capturing and breaking down the sound of the drum track from my own home studio - everything from the drums themselves, mics, tuning, reverbs and playing techniques to get as close to the original as possible. Playing it almost note for note was CHALLENGING, if you haven’t ever tried it - locking in with the original band track made it that much more difficult. But doing so taught me a lot. I tried to reveal as much of what I discovered here but if anyone has questions, you know what to do. A special shout out to my friend, Blair Sinta, who’s videos have inspired me to dig deep on these kinds of matters.
00:30 Intro
01:44 Equipment Used Drums, Cymbals etc.
04:56 Groove Considerations
05:20 Bass Drum Technique
06:20 Snare Drum Technique
07:04 Microphone Choices
08:31 How To Play The Opening Fill
09:40 How To Play The Fill Going Into The Chorus
10:18 How To Play The Fill Going Into The Outro Chorus
10:58 FULL SONG PERFORMANCE!

[@therealmattstarr]

Ok, so a little updated info to share. First I want to thank everyone for all the positive feedback and the constructive debate/discussion in the comments! I want to clarify again that I make my videos like this with the idea of reconstructing the sound of iconic records with the gear *already in my possession* instead of trying to replicate exactly what's on the record. That being said, I have it on the highest possible authority that the drums on this song were in fact a prototype Yamaha kit (as discussed below) and to finally clear up the snare debate, Jeff actually used a 6.5 x 14 Gretsch wooden snare. I can't reveal my sources but let's just say that they would be the only people other than Jeff who would know this for sure. I hope that clears some things up! Please continue to comment and ask any questions you have.

[@stoklund]

Thank You sooo much. About the snare, I also hear a wood snare. I have both the 6,5” and the 5” Black beauty, but to my ear it also sounds like a wood snare... anyway your sound on the Gretsch are right on point! 👍🙏😊

[@weschilton]

Well that is REALLY interesting. I had heard the Gretsch/Radio King story going all the way back to the late 80s from some people pretty close to Jeff.

[@Grayham4]

The groove starting out less busy is something EVERYONE misses. Thank you!

[@therealmattstarr]

Yes, a very important overlooked aspect of Jeff's playing in general was his "sense for songs." His uncanny ability to let the song guide his groove choices and dynamics is unparalleled. These are the kinds of things that I get the most out of when studying someone's playing. It's a surface thing to learn the groove, it's another thing entirely to understand WHY the musician made the choices they did. Thanks for your comment.

[@thomasbeachman4833]

Hi friend, great video. One thing: Everyone (including myself) assumed the song was tracked easing Gretsch USA customs and a Jamo (Paul Jameison) hot rodded Radio King 7x14 snare. After meeting with and talking with Jamo about the Total IV album, Jeff actually used a combo in which surprised me. For Rossana, he tracked such using an 8x10, 8x12, 9x13 and 16x616 Yamaha Recording customs - all toms were not drilled with mounts and the tom mounts were attached to RIMs mounts (all custom powder coated in black). The drum edges were just by Bill Detamore (pork pie precision owner) and assembled by Jamo himself. The snare used was a Gretsch USA Custom 6.5x14 with 42 strand snare wires. In Dec. two months back, I met up with Jamo and actually got to touch and hit said drums.....wow just wow! That song got me playing drums and for years I assumed it was a Gretsch Kit as that's what he played 90% of the time.

[@therealmattstarr]

Yes thanks. If you look at my updated pinned comment at the top, you will see that this info was already discussed and updated a while back.

[@NikulPrasad]

Very good, so much attention to detail. Your drum sound is spot on! Playing is spot on too!

[@alanunseld4942]

man those drums sound just like the isolated track of just jeffs drums nice work matt 😎🤟🏻🥁

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you very much!

[@stixology1785]

Just reading the book now by Robyn Flans. Enjoyed this. Thanks for your breakdown. Great job!

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you! I have been meaning to read that book - I gotta get on it and thanks for the reminder

[@bertcervi377]

The drums sound incredible dude. Great video. Look forward seeing more of your craft.

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you Bert!

[@mrreality1187]

Nailed it! love the drum sound too, beautiful kit.

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you!

[@andybelloc]

Thank you so much Matt. Your playing and musicality is outstanding. I use this track for teaching occasionally . You've made some things very clear to me where I wasn't totally sure of what Jeff actually did. Really really fabulous work without being pretentious or flashy. all my students will be watching. Thank you again 🙏

[@therealmattstarr]

You’re very welcome. I appreciate the kind words and I’m sincerely glad that this will help you and your students!

[@wolflover789]

This deserves more views... Thanks for a great Jeff video

[@therealmattstarr]

You're very welcome - thanks for the kind words!

[@michaelcaplin8969]

Ok, here comes a long one. I'm just so hyped that you made this, and made it so freaking well. I'm writing this as I watch the video, so it's not going to be even slightly coerent, but I hope you'll debate this with me :) Even though much of the equipment you mentioned isn't what he used for this song, the fact that you still nailed it PERFECTLY says a lot about you and your skills as a drummer and as an engineer. It is downright impressive. I was sick of there not being a single video on youtube that shows how he actually played it properly, and not a single one with anything even close to his sound. It was driving me crazy, and I was going to do just this when I got setup in my studio, but now I don't have to. And even though the equipment isn't the same, you have chosen very cleverly in regards to drum shells. His drums for this recording was a very early Yamaha 9000 prototype, with either very thin clear Ludwig DB-750 (equivilant to todays' diplomats) or clear ambassadors, nothing heavier. Your shells are pretty much a dead ringer for the type of shells he would use at that time, so even though it's not the same shells he recorded Rosanna on, it still sounds like him, and works very well for this. Super well done! His snare on Rosanna was a 6.5x14 70's black beauty with a coated ambassador on it, now in posession of a lucky german guy. That was his snare of choice for pretty much everything from the late 70's to mid 80's. He used his Radio Kings (he had at least two or three) for ballads and soft numbers mostly (like on "its a feeling"), but also on Turn Back, even though that drum was mostly a ballad drum. Saw one of Jeff's old Radio Kings for sale on Reverb for 350 dollars a couple of years back. Was a bit too late for it :( I've also heard - and believed - he used a Radio King for Rosanna for years, but this is not the case. Regarding rimshots, I'm actually not convinced he played with rimshots, but I 100% get why you would hear that, considering that the Radio King is a much mellower drum than the BB he used. I think you would have gotten that sound without rimshot if you had an old BB tuned like he tuned it, while for the RK, rimshots are necessary to get there. But I' surprised by how well a rimshotted RK works as a stand in for a BB. Again, a very smart snare choice when played with rimshots. But even though I'm not convinced there were rimshots on most of the strokes, I am just not sure either way, and there is a high chance you are completely correct on that. GREAT choice for a hi hat mic, in fact it's a very good choice. Also great choice for tom mics. It's sort of difficult to know what he used there, as they used everything from LDC to SDC mics to dynamic mics. In fact, using condenser mics was probably the most common micing choice for toms, and mostly what you see Jeff miced with in this period. But someow I just have a sneeking feeling they used MD421's for this. I do believe you are right in that they used an AKG 441 on the snare. Also, good and authentic choice for bass drum mic. The overheads would have been AKG c414's or Sony C37's for this one, but those ribbons work great for this. Overheads really weren't as prominent in shaping the sound back then as they are now. They were either exclusively cymbal mics or almost exclusively cymbal mics, never anything else. The close mics and oftentime condensers on the toms took care of the overall sound of the kit, and the overheads were entirely hipassed cymbal mics, basically. Jeff was in the main room, baffled off as you say. It was the same thing with his Steely Dan tracks; played in a large room with high ceiling together with other instruments, but with baffles up to the toms, and considering that the overheads were hipassed, they didn't pick up any room ambience, so the kit sounds dry as anything, even though the sound in the room would have been quite lively. The performence is just pure Jeff in way I haven't heard before in a cover. It was a less a cover than it was a actual manfistation of Jeff's spirit, pure and simple. And I don't say that lightly. In fact, I've yet to hear a drummer properly nail the groove the way he did, and I've been kind of dissappointed and borderline pissed off that no one out there could do it, because it's absolutely doable, you just got to listen to the details and what he's actually doing, and not what you think he's doing. The lack of ghost notes in the first part is exactly this kind of observation, and it really does make it sound a lot more like Jeff. You're also the only one this far to get the fills to sound right. All in all, I'm a big fan! Hope this wasn't too rambly, but I know it was. I just love to geek out over Jeff stuff with people who really gets it, you know? :) By the way, super jealous of your Gretsch kit. I'm kind of more into Jeff's Ludwig era ('71 to '82), but I've been thinking of getting myself these shells eventually. If I may bring forth a request, I'd love to see you do Jeff's sound on Gaucho.

[@stoklund]

This also pretty close: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJnYn2CvgZyiq6c

[@stoklund]

Same but only drums: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5_LmaiwYqmmfdk

[@stoklund]

One question. Are you 100% sure that he used 6.5” black beauty? I have both the 6.5” and the 5” black beauty, but I only saw pictures and videos of Jeff playing the 5 inch. 🤔

[@stoklund]

Look at 0:22 he uses a 5”: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3Sueqyjdq2DoLM

[@michaelcaplin8969]

@@stoklund Holy Moses, I have never seen that cover before! Thanks for that one. I think his playing is even better (even though at this level, it's ever so slight), especially on the hi hat, but purely sound wise I think this guy here has the edge, and then some. Oh yeah, 100% sure it was a 6.5 black beauty. The 5 black beauty you see in the video you sent me didn't belong to Jeff, but rather to the guy manning the drill, Ross Garfield. He had and still has some black beauties Jeff used. But the one he used on Rosanna was long before Ross joined te picture, and was owned by Porcaro himself. I can find a few pictures of it. It was all over every session he did from the late 70's to about '83 or '84. Before that again, he used a 6.5 Ludwig Super Sensitive. Here is a couple of photos from a session he did in early 1980, and that's the same snare he later used on Rosanna. It was nicknamed "The Cannon". www.reddit.com/r/JeffPorcaro/comments/l1j9o2/session_photos_from_the_tracking_of_mariya/

[@seanlevoy9446]

Insanely good.

[@FabioPoianMusic]

This is incredible Matt!!Thanks so much for this!!

[@therealmattstarr]

Fabio Poian Music thanks Fab!

[@davidcontreras878]

Matt!!! This is really great work man - your attention to detail is admirable and inspiring! Ate up the whole thing.

[@therealmattstarr]

David Contreras thanks DC!

[@LanceKonnerth]

Excellent Matt! Really interesting and inspiring! Even for a guitarist like me ;)

[@Oelmen]

Thank you! Sure did sound very much like Jeff!

[@Klausitodrums]

Love it!!!!! Cheers and hugs from Berlin

[@therealmattstarr]

Klauss! Big hugs man - hope all is well!!

[@weschilton]

Coming to this late, but I have to say, well done. :)

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you Wes!

[@stevejones466]

Excellent

[@markofaziomusic]

Great stuff! Thank you so much for putting the time and effort into doing this! Are you planning on doing more videos like this? That would be awesome! How about "You Don't Know How It Feels?" Keep on the great work! - PS: love the part when you said that people should go buy the DVD!

[@therealmattstarr]

Thanks Marko --- I will definitely be doing more of these. I just figured out how to do a screen record with audio from a Pro Tools session so I can get in and show what's under the hood.

[@robvriens8812]

Man amazing insightful video especially on what mics and gear they used. That intro fill rolls so smooth

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you Rob!

[@steviehagel]

This is awesome, thanks for sharing!

[@samuelbraatz]

Amazing

[@therealmattstarr]

thank you!

[@Nergretty]

Very well played!

[@therealmattstarr]

I appreciate that, thank you!

[@ThomasMYoutube]

amazing work!

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you!

[@brianczach]

Absolutely STELLAR performance and video! One thing I'm curious to know is what reverb did you end up using to get that sound? I really think you nailed it. Thank you!!

[@therealmattstarr]

Hey Brian, forgive me, I'm just now seeing this message. Thought I had my notifications on but I guess not! Thanks for your nice words. The reverb was the Slate emulation of the AMS RMX16 which he calls FG-16X. I tried many things including analog plates but this one just seemed to be the right sound. It would have been brand new at that time I think (1981).

[@limposwe]

Where did you find this instrumental version of the song? This has like everything except the vocals. Haven’t found anything like that only chopped up in smaller parts.

[@Fsalusso]

Muy buen video. Increíble como conseguiste las mismas o muy similares cosas que usaba Jeff

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you!

[@spaceace5522]

Perfect!!!!

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you!

[@NikkiStixx86]

wow i remember you from LAMA. Yeah Matt!!

[@tonyaxtell9216]

Could you please share the link to that "Toto Rosanna Demo" KZbin you suggested with the dry center mix from the 5.1? I can't seem to find it anywhere on KZbin. Thanks!! GREAT video of this iconic drummers sound, technique and style! :)

[@therealmattstarr]

Unfortunately it got taken down and I can't even find the rip I did of it when it was up so the only audio available is the part in the middle of this video

[@tonyaxtell9216]

@@therealmattstarr Thanks for letting me know.... doesn't surprise me it got taken down. Your video is priceless and I knew Jeff and I can say he would have approved completely!

[@therealmattstarr]

@@tonyaxtell9216 wow, that's very kind of you. Luckily I knew and studied with his Dad. What a family. Not just the talent but the kindness and love they showed. They are all sorely missed.

[@tonyaxtell9216]

@@therealmattstarr Yes I knew Joe also! I'm now assuming you attended Musicians Institute as well! I graduated BIT in '83 and still feel it was one of the best choices in my life ❤

[@joshkrips7575]

Fun video thanks man

[@therealmattstarr]

Thanks for watching, Josh.

[@ericferry4704]

Great job man! Are you sure it was a radio king snare? he did use them and it sounds really close!

[@therealmattstarr]

Hey Eric, yeah so there’s been quite a bit of debate even within the comments here on what kind of snare he used so I reached out to someone who would know precisely what the drum was and found out that, of all things, it was actually a 6.5 x 14 wood Gretsch snare. Thanks for your kind words and for watching!

[@shaquilleoatmeal3076]

Wowwww

[@josefdepovic8495]

with al schmitt there would've been 414s on the toms. also sounds like it. snare 451 and no rimshot, thats more the transient response of the mic. overheads would've been 414s or sony c37s. sounds more like the sony.

[@therealmattstarr]

Seems like you know what you think is happening here - more power to ya 👍🏼

[@SONORSQ2guy]

Great video what is the diameter size of your floor Tom?

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you! The floor tom is a 16"

[@196620410]

le meilleur cover drum pour moi de ce titre .

[@therealmattstarr]

Merci!

[@Sunriseblues5150]

Hi, so, Remo clear emperors on top, and whats on the bottom? :) and how did you tune them? :)

[@therealmattstarr]

So sorry Alan, I am just seeing this right now! Emperors on top, clear ambassadors on the bottom. The overall tuning is medium tension, the bottom heads are about a minor 3rd interval higher than the top heads.

[@Trevaha]

Hi Matt, First let me commend you on this video! Awesome. I can't seen to find the Dry demo track. Do you have a link? Thanks

[@therealmattstarr]

Hi Trevah, thank you! Unfortunately that demo clip was removed from YT a while ago.

[@erikondrums]

Hey man! Great video! Can’t find the Rosanna demo you talk about in the gear section. Where can I find the demo?

[@therealmattstarr]

Thanks Erik! Unfortunately it got taken down and I can't even find the rip I did of it when it was up so the only audio available is the part in the middle of this video ☹️

[@RogierRJDonker]

Hi Matt! I'm curious how the snare is tuned. It sounds amazing! Can you give some info on the head combo, wires and tension on the heads?

[@therealmattstarr]

It's medium-high, in other words not as low as people might think. Bottom head is higher than the top, usually for me it's about a minor 3rd or a perfect 4th above. The reverb helps to make it seem "deeper." Heads are CS Dot coated on top and hazy ambassador snare side on bottom. Canopus wires, though I think any set of premium wires would be fine. 20 strand, nothing special.

[@RogierRJDonker]

@@therealmattstarr thank you! I'm just gonna have to explore and experiment. But this helps get in the right direction.

[@therealmattstarr]

@@RogierRJDonker You're welcome! Believe me, if I was able to figure this thing out, so can you. It always comes down to a routine of: tune, record, listen back, adjust, rinse repeat.

[@darwin_j]

Hello There ! Your work is just amazing ! Could you tell us how you did the recording ? What kind of preamps did you use and stuff ?

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you Darwin! My setup has changed a little bit since I did this video (it's always evolving) but to the best of my recollection, this would have been through a combination of API and Daking preamps, both of which I still have and use all the time (the Dakings are some of the best preamps for the money, in my opinion). The converters I'm using are by Metric Halo. I didn't use any outboard EQ or compression at the time. So, in essence, a very simple setup. Hope that helps!

[@darwin_j]

@@therealmattstarr Thanks a lot for your answer Matt ! How did you muffle the bass drum ? You mentioned a packing of blankets being hold by sand bags... How much weight was the sand bag ?

[@therealmattstarr]

@@darwin_j Forgive my late reply here - I think you stumped me on this one but I'll venture a guess that it's about 15-20lb. It's a standard size sandbag that you'd find in a theater or with camera lighting.

[@darwin_j]

@@therealmattstarr Thanks a lot for your answer ! Tell me, I have a Sonor Vintage Series drums 20/10/16 with Meinl Byzance Vintage cymbals set and I’m trying to get your sound from this video. Although, my drums is different, how can I get close to your sound ? Does the D12 have a huge impact on the bass drum sound or can I use a MD421 ? Should I cut my bass drum reso head ? I’m good with the toms, but not the bass drum.. And what about the snare ? If I buy a Sonor Vintage snare in 14x6,5 … should I be able to get close to your snare ? I know it’s a lot of question, but I’m very obsessed with that sound of Porcaro

[@therealmattstarr]

@@darwin_j Experiment with all that you mentioned - in particular, how you treat the drums is more important than the actual drums themselves. Meaning, a bass drum with a large front hole is way more important than what the drum is (sonor vs Gretsch) Makes sense, right? 421 could work, but you won't know until you try it! The D12 was close to what they used but that doesn't mean something else won't get a similar sound. Same answer with the snare. Why not try the vintage Sonor? I bet you could get it close :)

[@stoklund]

Amazing video! Sooo good! Please where can I find the raw center mic video that you tell us about at 3:22??? I tried to search for “Toto Rosanna Demo” but could not find the right one... please could you make a link? 🙏 One other fun detail. Jeff actually plays 2 sixteen notes on 1 AND in the first horn riff fill leading in to the chorus, before going into eighth note triplets from 2.

[@therealmattstarr]

Thank you for the kind words! Unfortunately, you are right, it appears as if they've taken down the center channel/demo video, bummer!

[@stoklund]

Thanks 🙏 for you quick reply. Have you downloaded the video/sound? If yes Would I be possible to send it to me? 🙏 Again your video on Rosanna is by far the best I have seen!

[@therealmattstarr]

@@stoklund Thanks again. I have that sound somewhere, but believe it or not, I cannot find it right now!

[@stoklund]

@@therealmattstarr If You ever find the Sound I would be so happy if you would send it to me. 🙏

[@BeTheDot]

@@stoklund kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXeaoGSurNxpeqc is this it?

[@jonathancant2031]

Hi Matt, I’m curious what’s the tuning of the snare (before the muffling) and toms, I really want to get the sound your getting

[@therealmattstarr]

Hi Jonathan. Sorry for the late reply! For the snare, if you go to 03:32 you will hear the drums without reverb. I basically pitch matched to that, just using my ear. It ends up being a medium-high tuning plus the muffling. The bottom head is a little tighter overall than the top. For the toms, I went to the isolated drum tracks that you can find online and pitch matched to the tom fills. It just takes experimentation and your ears. Again, the bottom heads were tuned a little higher than the top heads. Hope that all helps!