Dillon RL1100 vs Mark VII Apex 10 Automated Shootout(Updated)

[@JeffinTD]

Super excellent video. Thank you for taking the time. I’m an admitted Dillon fan but with others offering the ability to run bullet feed with separate seat and crimp… I just can’t see someone today choosing a 1050 or 1100 over an Apex.

[@zacksmith-s2c]

Awesome video thank you for all the information. I haven’t reloaded in about five years and naturally I was leaning towards purchasing another Dillon 1050 because that’s what I had in the past but I’m glad I stumbled on the mark7

[@kekistani2373]

thanks for the comparison. I'm going with the apex 10 as mark 7 has been in the automation game longer than dillon

[@devinbates6529]

Sounds good, I think you will be happy. After I made this video I have changed my mind on the "Primer Orientation Sensor." It can be finicky to adjust and will provide some false positives. Since I case gauge all the ammo that I load I have stopped using this sensor as I will find the occasional upside down primer or one that is crushed. Either way you will be good but I just wanted to give you a heads up.

[@marku123]

Thank you for these videos , they have been great . I’m about to pull the trigger on an apex 10 . Haven’t decided if I’ll get it with automation right away or play with it and get comfortable in manual mode first . Ugh decisions lol

[@devinbates6529]

No harm in getting the manual machine first and getting used to it. Good news is that you are ready for automation if and when you want to add it. Once you go automated it is hard to ever go back...

[@jacquesdeng]

hi devin, impressed by your knowledge and details! thanks

[@devinbates6529]

Thanks for the kind words.

[@rangervapes571]

On the Rl1100 I have a powder check sensor where you put your bullet feed, and then I use a RCBS bullet seater/crimper die. Also I use a devinci decapper then clean my brass. I will then use the rollsizer to debulge the brass then send through the press.

[@devinbates6529]

Great plan on the RL1100. While I prefer to have two separate dies for seating and crimping one works for sure as well. I buy most of my brass an it is already roll sized but I have a roll sizer for any brass that is not already taken care of. I believe that it is critical to roll size the brass with as many Glock or similar handguns out there that create the bulge. Goes to show there is more than one way to skin the cat. Thanks for the input.

[@Bisley1]

For what it’s worth, I don’t rollsize my 9mm brass and some of it must have been reloaded 5 times or so. Various headstamps, all mixed. I shoot it from Glocks, Sigs, HKs and B&T without any problem. They are loaded with Dillon carbide dies on an XL650 and do have that coke bottle shape, but they all feed. So why is roll sizing 9mm critical, if the ammo works? Bulge or no bulge. A friend roll sizes his 9mm because they don’t fit his chambers after resizing with the Lyman carbide die on his 750. so yeah, if you have to, go for it. But it doesn’t seem necessary to me. I would have bought a dillon die instead of a 1k rollsizer and extra steps if I were him😅 Anyway, thanks for the video. I might be getting a RL1100😃😃

[@devinbates6529]

While I'm no expert on roll sizing my guess on why you are not having issues is because you are shooting a Glock. I don't have issues with all of my guns if I don't roll size but I do in others. If all is going good for you don't change a thing. It is simply insurance for me.

[@devinbates6529]

This is an updated video that now shows full screen. Not sure what happened on the first one... I will copy comments from the first video and then pull it down in a couple of days.

[@devinbates6529]

Here is a comment from @WeTrudgeOn on the previous video: @WeTrudgeOn • 1 day ago I have an apex 10, just fyi for anyone who doesn't know, Lyman owns the Mark7 line of machines now. I've loaded around 100K 45acps on the machine so far, I also dumped the decap sensor, just a total PITA. I also had problems with the case feedfer getting bound up, so I took a lot of time just observing the feeder and ended up modifying it so it works flawlessly now. If they would have just taken a little time to get it right, they wouldn't have needed the reverse button on the feeder. I also bought the primer express and after a short time gave up on it, upsidedown primers, stuck primers, not worth the money. A freind has the $2000 dollar motorized primer system and that works really good but I just went back to the stock system also. I agree the shellplate pawl kinds sucks, the little 5/32 allen adjustment screw is hard toi get to and hard to keep in adjustment, I have put some blue locktite on it now and it seems to be staying put so far. I had issues wiht the bullet feeder too so I ended up getting rid of the spacer and moving the feeder clockwise around the case feeder and just drilling a new hole and bolting the bullet feeder on so the drop tube and spring are not in line with the powder hopper anymore. My new project is setting it up for .308 Win and I'll say this, the machine DOES NOT LIKE sizing .308s, they are pushing the outside limit of what it is capable of. Even with the premium Lyman carbide dies it still really doesn't like sizing them. To Lymans credit like Dillon they have excellent customer service, I have spent up to one hour of time on the phone with a tech sorting out problems. My nit pickiest thing with the machine is the rats nest of sensor cables you end up with with the factory cables, I spent a couple of days sorting cables out and cutting them down so they are not such a rats nest, I'm kinda anal about cable management anywhere on anything. I recently updated my pwoder sensor to one a guy called Rockcanyon munitions is making, it's a laser that senses the height or the powder so nothing goes inside the case so you never have any grains of powder sticking to the probe and dropping on the shell plate. This Rockcanyon guy is a pretty high volume commercial loader so he knows how to do sensors. Last I heard he is comming out with a whole new suite of sensors for the Mark 7 machines.

[@AlphaGamingImpact]

2000 Round a Minute. That’s really good. Win automatic

[@nallabor]

How consistently will the Apex 10 size the headspace on shouldered brass?

[@devinbates6529]

So far I have only used the Apex 10 for 223/5.56 reloading so I have not looked at shoulder bump and how consistently it resizes the brass. For my 5.56 reloading I'm using once fired range brass with mixed headstamps so I'm just resizing back to the point that it will case gauge and it works fine in all of my rifles. I don't pickup my brass after shooting so I am only reloading it once as opposed to some of my precision rifles. Admittedly I'm not precision reloading in 5.56 so I have not been measuring to the extent that I do on 6.5 Creed or similar large rifle calibers. I do use an armanov 10 round case gauge on every reloaded round and I have very few rounds that fail so the press is doing a nice job of sizing the brass back to spec. The press is very rigid so if you set it up properly I don't see any issues in consistency. If you are running it with an auto drive you can also adjust dwell times etc. to have it pause a bit at the bottom which should help. Hope this helps.

[@Transmissions]

Hey Devin, any reason you didn’t use the hold down die that came with the a10?

[@devinbates6529]

I used it initially and it works great for straight wall pistol cases. When I started loading 5.56 bottle neck cases the hold down dies from FW Arms worked better because they help hold the case vertical. Also the rod that holds the case down is spring loaded so it works better with range brass because there is variation on the dimensions of the various cases.

[@Transmissions]

@@devinbates6529 Thanks! I’m trying to pick out the extra dies I need. This makes a lot of sense.

[@devinbates6529]

I like the Lyman Pro Micrometer dies for case flare, seating, and crimp. They work well for loading a bunch of rounds. FW Arms for decap and hold down. I use a FW Arms hold down die in the priming station as well to keep the primer seating depth more consistent as it helps keep the case down when seating the primer. Good luck and enjoy.

[@dmdm9198]

These setups seem to be for diy but what is considered the holy grail for commercial use? Any takes on top 5 commercial rigs?

[@devinbates6529]

I really don't have any experience beyond these presses in the video, but I know that Mark 7 has some commercial machines. The Revolution looks interesting and the Titan, not yet released, looks like a beast. I have no experience with either of these machines just with Mark 7. I have found their products to be reliable and their support is top notch. If anyone else has insights please share. Good luck.

[@dmdm9198]

@@devinbates6529 thank you for responding and great breakdown of the machines you use.very informative and helpful

[@bradywebb1311]

I use the combination seat/crimp die on my 1050 Super so I can run a powder check sensor.

[@devinbates6529]

Good plan if you're running a bullet feeder. Most of what I load now on my 1050 or 1100's are smaller batches of calibers where a bullet feeder doesn't work well. This allows me to run a powder check and separate seat and crimp dies. Both a combo seat/crimp and separate seat/crimp work great it just comes down to personal preference. When I'm running volume and a Mr. Bullet Feeder I use the Apex 10 which allows powder check and separate seat and crimp.

[@bradywebb1311]

@@devinbates6529 I also run a Mr. bullet feeder.

[@armureriecaraibes]

Interesting comparison but in production it would be the best... in fact, I have no feedback on the Mark7 but I have a 1100 with the mark7 and all the options (sensors). The problem is the primer! If there is the slightest problem with a primer, the dillon system blocks and can disrupt the functioning of the primer. for me, the dillon primer is bad technology...

[@devinbates6529]

I agree that the Dillon primer system is not the best. If you have a problem it is difficult to get it cleared and going again. I like the fact that the primer system on the Apex 10 is not under the shell plate so if there is a problem you can fix it without unloading your shell plate and starting over. It is not perfect but I've never detonated a primer on the Apex 10, can't say the same for the Dillion...wakes you up for sure...;-)

[@robertfisher8260]

How are you liking the X1carbon ?

[@devinbates6529]

Good eye. I love it. It is great for prototyping things as well as just making handy things around the shop. It is very easy to use and there is a bunch of things already out there to print or you can use a 3D Cad solution to design whatever you want. If you don't need CAM for a CNC machine I recommend Onshape. It is free for hobby use and is easy to learn. I need a few more hobbies...;-)

[@StewieStew820]

I heard the apex 10 powder measure is not consistent. Have you experienced any of this?

[@devinbates6529]

It is "OK" unless you are working on precision loads. I've gone to the electronic powder measure and I find it to be more accurate for some reason. I typically achieve SD's in the 15 range with the electronic PM. If you need single digit SD's hand loading or a Dillion manual press with you measuring out powder is the way to go. The Dillion powder measure seems to provide similar results for me as the Apex 10.

[@StewieStew820]

Sounds good, my xl750 drops powder without any measurable deviation. I want the Apex 10, but I heard horror stories of people getting +- 0.4gr with standard pistol powders.

[@devinbates6529]

​@@StewieStew820 I'm not setup for pistol currently but when I am I'll run some rounds and give powder drop amounts. I'm not seeing .4gr deviations but I will run the test and let you know what I'm seeing. I have a very accurate scale so it often looks worse than it is with that second digit...

[@StewieStew820]

@devinbates6529 thanks!

[@devinbates6529]

Well I was interested to see the difference between the Apex 10 powder measure and the Dillion so I did a test. I measured the powder weight using an A&D EJ-303 scale which I have found to be very accurate. I was measuring to two decimal points so there was no rounding. I tested 15 powder drops twice for each measure. Both setups were in the 4.65 grain range so that should be consistent. What I found was virtually no difference in the two powder measures. The Apex 10 had the same average for both sets of measurements and the Dillion varied by .02 between the measurements. One of the measurements on the Apex 10 had a delta of .1 grains but the second Apex 10 group and both Dillion groups had a delta of .08 grains. Finally one of the Apex 10 groups had a Standard Deviation of .03 and the rest of the measurements for both had a SD of .02. I will try and upload a spreadsheet showing this data. One thing that I have noticed on the Apex 10 powder measure is that you need to make sure the locknut is very tight so your measure does not drift over a loading session. You should always measure your powder charge every so often in a loading session on any machine to make sure you don't have drift. Thanks for the question, this was interesting. I think it shows that both powder measures do a nice job of consistency.

[@rodgerbooth1064]

I don't know about the Dillon but I do know about the Mark 7 Apex 10!! It really nis JUNK!!! The priming system will drive you nuts and there is a ton of waste. You have to disassemble the entire machine every 40-30 rounds to clean the priming shuttle disc!! The primers fall in sideways and then jam up.!!! Very poor design overall!! The hex head screws in the machine are both imperial and metric and of al different sizes!! Poor engineering!!! The Mark 7 is headed to the Trash!!! I have taken it apart for the last time!!! DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY OR TIME!!!!

[@devinbates6529]

I guess we've had very different experiences with the Apex 10. I'm not sure if you were using the Primer Xpress or not. I did not have good luck with it but when I switched back to the primer tube assembly I've not experienced the issues that you mention. I've loaded 10's of thousands of rounds without having to remove the priming shuttle disc. Also, I agree that there are a bunch of different hex head sizes but I don't recall any being metric. You definitely want a good set of hex wrenches for sure. I like the additional stations and I especially like being able to install a hold down die at the priming station to give me very consistent primer depths. Not sure if you received a lemon or not. Thanks for the feedback.

[@Transmissions]

They just released a gen 2 primer unit. Works perfectly now!

[@rodgerbooth1064]

@@Transmissions They sent a notice about that a month ago. Will have to order one. Thanks for the info.

[@Transmissions]

@@rodgerbooth1064 np, I wish they would have offered these for free as a replacement, but I decided to cough up the money. Well worth it. Good luck!

[@rodgerbooth1064]

@@Transmissions I hear ya, it has been a real Heart ache!! I have taken mine apart over a hundred times to clear the primer system! I was going to buy the new automated press and then thought about what I went through with the Apex 10 and put the brakes on! Doubt that I will ever buy another product of theirs! I think I am going back to Dillon. I never had these problems with the Super 1050!

[@daviddegeorge1665]

I’ve been going back and forth between these 2 for a while . Not being the ability to run a powder check on the Dillion really makes there only one choice for automation and that’s the mark7 but now the question it to wait for the Genesis machine . Mark 7 has an awful reputation bringing new machine to market .

[@devinbates6529]

The Genesis looks intriguing but apparently there is not much information on when to expect it. The priming system on the Genesis looks to be way better so that is a plus for it. Also the shell plate having its own servo is nice because you don't need to adjust the pawl set screw to line it up. I have found that if I back off the resistance on the shell plate from the shell plate nut that I'm not having to adjust the set screw near as much. I think what they show in their video for the proper resistance on the shell plate is a bit too high or at least my understanding of what they say was too aggressive. Unless they have improved the "Decap Detection" I wouldn't be too excited that it is included with the Genesis. Swage Detection and Bullet Detection are both required in my opinion and in fact the swage detection acts as my Decap detection sensor. The Apex 10 shows to be $1000 cheaper but once you add the Swage Sense and Bullet Sense I think you are only at around $500 cheaper. If you go with the Apex 10 I would buy a Dillon RF 100 Auto Primer Filler which will set you back another $500 so basically as I would configure the machines they are the same price. The advantage of the RF 100 is if you have other machines you can use it for those as well. So basically it comes down to whether you are willing to wait for what looks like a very interesting press that we don't really know anything about or if you need a machine now that will do a great job for you.

[@MarkKornytchuk]

well to all the retarts that spend thousands of dollars u deserve all the grief u get, none of these machines are ment to be automated, they all fail youll never get a run more then 200 rounds before somehting goes south, and the best part is u never see videos of when one of these high dollar machines fail and parts get bent and ruined and your out of commision for weeks to wait for parts. .... its called hobby reloading u take your time and u make a few great rounds ata time, ... if u think your gonna get over and think your gonna get a machine that doesnt fail your dreaming. weather its a 200 grogressive or 3000 machine there all the same they all are mahcined to the same tolerance and they all work to a degree. ... hope all u tarts learn a lesson from these videos.

[@devinbates6529]

Gosh Mark, Thanks for your kind words. (Sarcasm Intended) Reloading is vast topic and loading a few great rounds every now and then might fulfill your needs but many people shoot more than that. Any mechanical device will break down at times no matter who makes it. I've loaded 10's of thousands of rounds without bending parts but occasionally I do bend something, typically because of my own error. It sounds as if my content does not fit your needs so I encourage you to look somewhere else. YT is a big pool of knowledge so I'm sure you will find content that resonates with you.

[@minilogoguy18]

I don't think there is a better universal decapper or hold down die than the FW Arms dies. They're amazing.

[@devinbates6529]

Agreed. They make great stuff that is near indestructible. In fact Lyman/Mark 7 include som FW arms dies in some of their sets.