Disc Rot - What is it, how is it affecting cd based games, and how can you can avoid it?

[@Jenovi]

One thing I didn't really address in the video is the expectation of disc rot as a percentage over the course of X number of years. Available data would suggest disc that are without defect and are at least 20-30 years old will last another 25-50 years if not longer under the right conditions. A disc's longevity comes down to environment, no contaminates being introduced during manufacturing, and no issues in the pressing. If there are no issues with the disc by the above stated time, it's just a mater of waiting for some of the other elements to deteriorate due to time it self such as the lacquer layer, or the adhesive used to hold the disc together. -Jenovi

[@yatsey007]

Jenovi that certainly sucks dude. I'm glad the ordeal hasn't put you off entirely as I enjoy your videos. Look forward to the new one 👍

[@ThePreciseClimber]

In 80 years we'll all be dead so I guess it's not so bad.

[@1rbdfl]

Since the cause is known, have you become aware of any further steps that can be taken, such as (re)sealing the sides and top of the discs for undamaged examples with a solvent-free coating? I'm thinking of something along the lines of silicone conformal coating. Additionally, do you have any first hand or in-depth knowledge of a reliable archival quality media/disc that we could use to make copies of our beloved CDs before they all eventually fade?

[@Gryphsolion]

Jenovi I have a sly 3 demo disc that the top label is scratched but it works perfectly just needs resurfaced I'm able to pull the files off of it perfectly but the ps2 can't load it from the scratched bottom the label isn't anything big it plays in a emulator from the disc so it's probably needing a resurface for it to load on console

[@timdrake2020]

Jenovi well I just bought a brand new copy of MGS TTS on GCN opened it to find that disc one is already rotting.

[@Larry]

All the CD rot I've had are with Amiga CDTV or CD32 games, bought a joblot of amiga CD's inside a sleeve case and a copy of Lemmings was so bad, it had literally melted into the paper behind it.

[@Jenovi]

Holly heck! That’s insane and really sucky. Aren’t the CD32 games hard to come by?

[@bluefates58]

@@Jenovi Hey what kind of software were you using at 5:38, I was checking my games and I think I found some pin holes

[@OfficialUknow]

Gamecube has a lot

[@cessnaace]

That's tough Larry. PDO UK (Philips Dupont Optical) made LaserDiscs, CDs, and DVDs. Possibly game discs too, although I don't know for sure. PDO has a terrible reputation for producing discs that rot. PDO also had pressing plants for CD and DVDs in the the U.K., U.S. and West Germany. Those pressed in the U.S. should say Manufactured in U.S.A. by PDO (or Philips Dupont Optical) either on the label or in the outer ring of the disc. Those manufactured in West Germany will either say Manufactured in West Germany by Philips Dupont Optical, or PolyGram on the early ones. Some might have it printed on the disc in the inner ring. LaserDisc pressed in the U.K. will say Manufactured in England on the Jackets, and usually the labels. No mint marks or manufacturer identification on the discs themselves.

[@Larry]

@@cessnaace is there any thing you can do to save them?

[@NickGoblin2]

It seems inevitable to happen to many games in the future. I'm glad many games now have their ISOs uploaded to the internet, as if they weren't we would have lost all of these great games.

[@FallicIdol]

In the late 80s/early 90s, we were told cds would last forever. The blank cds I used for music started going within 10 years.

[@hawkmanhawk]

I've always kinda called shenanigans on disc rot. So after you said TwinSnakes has problems, I went to my copy sitting on a shelf for sometime in my gameroom. Air conditioned, never below 65 or hotter than 80. Disc 1 has scales. I'm heart broken checking all my discs now starting with GameCube. WTF happened during this games production.

[@hawkmanhawk]

I forgot in my duplicates box, I had a disc only set of TwinSnakes that did time in the garage. Looks fine. I played the messed up copy till first meeting Merryl with no issue. I recorded the entire session to capture any issues none happened.

[@megacide84]

Stephen Hawkey and this is why I now primarily buy digital copies of games online. Worst case scenario...It'd be easier to replace a console or a hard drive then an entire collection.

[@redwingdog22]

What does disc rot look like on metal gear GameCube?

[@codak29]

Try watching the video. He shows Metal Gear on Gamecube with disc rot 4-5 times.

[@robertsnow5484]

HellsAttack man it’s crazy I checked eBay and a lot of the listings have disc rot. When I worked at GameStop I saw a lot of twin snakes copies like that but always assumed they were fine because the bottom looked good. On another note ... I wonder if the players choice version of twin Snakes has this issue as well?

[@MrMario2011]

The problem with checking disc integrity is due to copy protection it can be difficult if you don't have the know-how or special hardware/software. The PlayStation consoles for example are easy enough as you can rip those games over easily enough with a standard drive. The original Xbox for example cannot have games ripped in the same manner, you would need a modified console and then rip the game using the console itself either to the system or over your network using the system.

[@Jenovi]

I agree, and appreciate your comment. Thanks for the information in regard to the X-box. I learned something new today.

[@NASIRUB1]

The emulation community needs to make an original Xbox emulator so people can play that console on PC. I never owned an Xbox back then and do to space limitations and the possibility of a console like that breaking because of wear and tear, I wouldn't buy it so having an emulation of it on the PC would work better for me, even if they did something like Sega on Steam and gave us the emulator for free bundled with a few games and charged us for each game individually after, I would accept this. I don't think Microsoft knows they would make a killing in sales by adding something like this to their Windows Store.

[@jubjub444]

Xbox is less likely to deteriorate though since its not an old type of disc

[@BlueBARv5]

@@Jenovi What program do you use to check the integrity of your disc files?

[@bitbybit-eu]

I have been battling disc rot myself, so always on the lookout for new information to restore or prevent it. Good video!

[@Jenovi]

It's a bummer. One reason I prefer collecting for cart based systems over disc.

[@bitbybit-eu]

@@Jenovi same here. I switched to cart collecting

[@pentiummmx2294]

my ps1 collection has vanished, and the laser on my ps1 has also failed, im about to either get it modded with a xstation and pirate my whole collection or just recycle it and migrate to emulation.

[@millennialthatplaysfortnit4608]

@@JenoviI thought data rot can happen to carts, can’t that too?

[@ButcherGrindslam]

Optical media is refered as "DisC", not "disK". Second version is for magnetic storage.

[@Abic__]

I've read that pinholes are usually formed when the reflective layer is put on and dust that has formed on the polycarbonate disc prevents the coating from sticking in small spots. I have found brand new ps4 games that have lots of pinholes but play completely fine, so I believe that pinholes most of the time aren't necessarily rot.

[@Jenovi]

When discussing Blu Ray or DVD, that’s true. Especially when looking at newer disc because pressing tech has dramatically improved. Those PS4 games should outlive a couple generations as long as there was no problem during production. HD-DVDs are the best example of this. When discussing CD’s, it’s rot 100% of the time when you see a pin hole because the art is the protective layer.

[@brotothewilliams9890]

ps4 doesnt constantly read game disks

[@III1IlIIlIllIl]

@@brotothewilliams9890 they use to. Xbox one reads the disk when its offline.

[@Decidetto]

*Feverishly starts to rip backups of all his CD-ROMs*

[@Mr.77776]

I've never had a problem with disc rot. I have over 3,600 cds . I even keep them in the attic in there original cases. I listen to them often and not one of them has disk rot. It gets hot in the attic in the summer and cold in the winter. No disc rot whatsoever. I think it's more of a manufacturing defect. That might cause disk rot over time. I've never experienced it. Thank God!

[@willgregg1076]

I hope my Master Of Puppets CD will be ok.

[@GabrielMartinez-pe6ln]

Did you rip it on your computer?

[@vince19games]

Super informative video! I hardly knew anything about disc rot except that it sounds awful. As a Dreamcast collector, I held my breath for a moment when you flashed the Dreamcast on screen just before saying which console suffers the most from disc rot! It's rare that you can watch a video and immediately have some concrete tools to add to your arsenal afterwards. I am going to be inspecting discs a lot more closely now. Thanks!

[@cessnaace]

The only Dreamcast game that I've had a hard time finding a decent copy of is Walt Disney World Quest Magical Racing Tour. There's a way to increase the power on the laser in the Dreamcast, which requires opening the console up, but I don't mess around with lasers. Even when a laser beam is invisible it can blind you.

[@rikafurude729]

Thanks for making this video. You taught me how to keep my Dreamcast and GameCube collections safe

[@cessnaace]

As someone with large CD, game, and LaserDisc collections this has been a concern of mine for a long time. LaserDiscs (most are 12" in diameter) are my biggest concern. The format launched in 1978 and lasted until 2002 (2007 for smaller LD Singles). As a collector you learn which pressing plants produced problematic discs. Pressing plants around the world were used for U.S. releases. DiscoVision was the very first plant, and so their discs had a lot of problems. Many LD pressing plants also pressed CDs. With LDs you can tell which plant pressed a disc by looking at the mint marks (early Pioneer pressings, in both the U.S. and Japan) had no mint marks). PDO UK (they never used mint marks), which also made CD and other optical disc formats has a terrible reputation when it comes to disc rot. Early DVDs pressed by WAMO (Warner Bros.) are also problematic. I got in the habit years ago of physically inspecting all discs carefully, but a disc can look perfect and still be bad.

[@GD-dy1cz]

that happened to my Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes copy. These "cracks" appeared on the label. what I did was finish removing the label and leave the disc with the shiny background layer. it continued to function perfectly today after 12 years of doing that to the disc.

[@xapx]

Gamecube games are pressed onto DVD's if the top layer screenprint is coming off, it doesn't mean the data is being messed up, since there is a layer of plastic before the data.

[@Jenovi]

You are 100% accurate, it's just my personal experience with this one disc having a defective printed top + disc rot. I really think there was a issue pressing this disc, and it has led to a high failure rate as they seem to go hand in hand. Everyone will have different a experiences though, and mine might just be that of poor luck. I do know of a person or two who have this game with the bad top and no rot, and a handful more that have the bad top and a non working game. It's the only gamecube game I've run across that's like this. The other gamecube games I've had issue with only have the pin hole spots. I just tried a run though of Konami's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles only to have the game freeze in the end, the disc was bad and I couldn't go on.

[@ms.pirate]

@@Jenovi from what im hearing, are all the mgs GC games rotting unless their put in good condition? Or are there alot of defectives ones and some none rotting ones?

[@GameRelated]

@jenovi Can you please explain why it is bad to store your games in a CD wallet Sleeve??

[@SalivatingSteve]

Not just disc rot, but if you buy a used game that may have been a rental in the past and the game store stupidly removes the stick-on label from the rental store, it will ruin the disc. This happened to me with my copy of Resident Evil 2 for the PlayStation. Luckily it’s a 2-disc game so my Claire disc is fine, but my Leon disc freezes when entering the room with the wounded police officer at the beginning of the game. I stupidly didn’t play the Leon disc right away, so I was well past the 90-day return policy and the game store didn’t have any other copies left anyway so I was screwed. I ended up just pirating the Dreamcast version and playing the Leon campaign that way...

[@Jenovi]

Sadly, that’s the only option you sometimes have.

[@danielsantana540]

I own k1 revenge for ps1 and it was a Hollywood video rental and works fine as well as Rambo 4 2008 it is a blockbuster rental in great condition. Rentals are sometimes In. Better shape than games discs or blu rays sold from.collectors

[@KylesDigitalLab]

Minor correction, audio CDs ("Red Book") were released in October 1982 in Japan (US and Europe in 1983). But CD-ROMs weren't released until the mid to late 1980s. Apparently Denon/Sony demoed it publicly in 1984, but there's some confusion about when the CD-ROM spec was published, the Wikipedia article on CD-ROM both gives a date of 1983 and 1988. Other sources say 1986. Also I have audio CDs that date back to at least 1985 pressed by CBS/Sony Japan, and they still read just fine. It depends on the plant that pressed the disc, some plants had high disc rot, and some didn't. Also I think pinholes aren't disc rot, but an error in manufacturing. Lots of early CDs had these.

[@skywalkerhunter95]

in films and music, the CD/VCD and Bluray are more durable than DVDs. i use a particular outdoor permanent red marker to ''recoat'' the inner and outer ring of the disc to prevent this, so far it helps

[@Pokéfan1388]

None of my Gamecube discs don't have disc rot but some cracks and one deep scratch that makes the game unable to read

[@konradwroblewski2115]

Personally I haven't found the GameCube discs to be bad. The discs I did have troubles with were scratched beyond belief and resembled a skating rink so I won't attribute those issues to disc rot. Although I wouldn't be surprised if more people make complaints about the GameCube ones seeing as collecting for GameCube seems to be more popular than other disc based platforms. So they games are in higher demand, plus they're more expensive in comparison to PS2, Xbox, PlayStation, DreamCast, etc. Especially PS2 and Xbox games. People aren't likely to be super pissed about a $5 game not working. Sega cd based games have a bad reputation for disc rot from what I've heard but at the end of the day I think this is just a boogeyman to scare collectors. I've been collecting for both GameCube and DreamCast and I can't recall a time that a disc did not work if it looked nice and clean. I've had scratched ones not work but never clean ones, and I own slightly under 100 games between those 2 platforms. Maybe 15-20 years down the line this will be a big problem but not now.

[@Jenovi]

I have over 100 games on each of the following platforms. Gamecube, Saturn, Dreamcast, Sega CD, and all the Playstations. I have a sizable collection on each cd based console that saw release in the US beyond the ones mentioned. So here is the scoop. I by far have had the worst luck with Sega CD and Gamecube. The reality is if you buy a game that is 25 years old and doesn't suffer from disc rot, it will most likely last another 25 years. It's just important to be on the lookout, so you're not introducing damaged disc into your collection. I've been told the Dreamcast has significant issues with this, however, I've yet to see any problems with games I own. Then again beyond a quick look when I made this episode, most problems I've encountered are with games I've owned for decades.

[@xtremegold2950]

just check yesterday a legit copy of sega saturn virtua cop rotting already 2 holes on disc getting bigger.. however the cd plays fine. but when the game is playing do hear some audio issues on the beginning of the stage

[@harukakigani106]

I've got two CDs that I spotted twenty years ago that had holes in data layer, the CDs still play however it also depended on the player for example the Sony boombox skipped all over the place but the TEAC system totally ignored the holes ...so the old Sony boombox got the boot. The holes are still the same place and haven't spread

[@karwankarwanko6603]

Bro a question, i have a mario kart double dash for the gamecube. I went to the professional disc repair resurface game store. They cleaned it professionally (disc resurfaced machine) twice, first time highest level and second time on a lower level. There are no scratches at all, the disc looks almost brand new, however, when i play it, it all works, except when you go from one level to the other level. Then i get the message on the screen to turn of the power button of my nintendo, i have the same issue with the wii and the gamecube while playing this game. Please what seems to be the problem? Should i go to let the disc to be repaired professionally again?

[@adultmoshifan87]

I have a HUGE game disc collection and although I haven't checked them yet (will do, just haven't had the time), I've yet to experience disc rot. I'm worried that some DVDs of mine could get it as I had them in a bag which I accidentally left near a boiler for a few weeks (this was before I even discovered the issue!) and I do have lots of games stored away in places. Also, many of my games I store in disc wallets, so I must get that rectified! One problem I have is space. I have a huge collection and it's been difficult finding the space to store it all in, explaining the disc wallets and most of the time happy to have the game even without the original packaging. I have had the odd DVD bronze most likely as a result of sunlight getting in through the windows. One worry I have with buying used CDs, I worry this the most with PlayStation games, is data having been scratched off the data layer due to bad handling of the disc. I see this a lot with Platinum games this worries me the most when even the original release is silver-topped, meaning that when I finally do get round to adding Die Hard Trilogy to my collection I may have to look for a sealed copy...

[@Jenovi]

+adultmoshifan87 it's a real concern, but if disc that are already 20 years old show no sign of rot, it's a fair to say they will last another 25-50 years. My advice is check these disc before you by. Any DVD having issue will more then likely follow that specific pressing as the ones showing rot are either due to a contaminated pressing or damage due to storage. Good luck to you, and thanks for stopping by.

[@adultmoshifan87]

Jenovi I always do check discs before buying, especially PlayStation games on which the labels are mostly foil. Because Jumping Flash!'s label is a large percentage foil, I was lucky to find that rental copies of this particular title each had a fully layered label. I was lucky to bag a copy in that form on ebay for £2.95! While my chances probably aren't that high that any near-fully-foil PlayStation games having data scratched-off, I am still especially cautious. I may have to buy sealed copies of Die Hard Trilogy, the first 2 WipeOuts and (god forbid, knowing how valuable it is) Digimon World!

[@oculedo9137]

Wow, i wasn't expecting you to say Gamecube. If the metal gear disc rot is really this severe and widespread this should be posted on ebay, a lot of people are getting fucked.

[@Jenovi]

It really seems to be a game by game case when it comes to the Gamecube. Thanks to a friend, I have since received a clear copy of MGS. I still see copies of the game suffering from the effects of a bad pressing.

[@Jenovi]

At this point, it's just all luck. There is some data that indicates disc that doesn't see this issue in the first 25 years have a significantly lower chance of developing the problem over the next 25. Unfortunatly, there's really not much you can do.

[@Jenovi]

Resurfacing just removes scratches from the plastic protective layer. If that layer is the issue, problem solved. If not, then there's no workaround. BTW I want to make it clear that label damage is only an indicator of disc rot on CD's, not DVD's. However, flaking labels on GameCube disc almost always indicate an issue with the pressing process meaning disc rot is likely in the future.

[@Jenovi]

Label is the top of the disc where the print is. Disc Pressing is the act of creating a disc in the factory.

[@Tokaisho1]

You see it far less with PAL versions because the european game case has a good button press release system where theres less bending of the disc on removal from the case

[@NASIRUB1]

This is why I like to play emulators because I don't want to deal with this, I'll admit not every emulation of some consoles is perfect, but if you a small amount of space in your house or apartment, having all your games/consoles digitally on your PC is not a bad idea. Now excuse me as I have to go check my 10 CD/DVD based console/PC classic collection for disc rot. I must have over hundred game titles combined on multiple platform that I have to check, this is why I stopped collecting physical games and consoles, to much work to maintain them and service them.

[@85fabricio]

Hard drives only last 5 years and drm makes imposible for game preservation

[@inputfunny]

Did you find any with disc rot?

[@WestSide1207]

I don't like emulation, but don't care if others use it. However, I am definitely a big proponent of game backups on ROM or ISO files as a means of preserving these games. I actually use backups for most of my classic consoles, using flash carts for cartridge based consoles, and CD-R's for optical based ones. As these games get older and older, I prefer to keep them in pristine shape and have them stand the test of time.

[@realevostevo]

Very interesting. I kinda wonder if this has happened to me. Years ago I had to chuck a copy of Dead or Alive 4 due to the disc being unreadable. When I looked at the surface of the readable side it had a strange swirly look to it that wasn't surface damage. I don't know if this was disc rot or not. Caught that last part about not storing games in cd binders. That's actually how I've stored my Dreamcast games for the last couple months. I think I'll take your word for it and put them all back in their jewel cases. It was just easier to have them all in one case but it's not worth losing any of them. Nice vid 👍🏻

[@usavideogames7599]

Im thinking even the oils from our fingers and alcohol used to clean the tops or even damp paper towel or simple rubbing the top paper layer can cause pin holes that allow light to pass through ?

[@anonymoususer6774]

After I dropped cable went last year, I bought a cheap DVD player and revisited a bunch of my old DVDs. A ton of them do not work. They're clean and haven't been touched in years, just sitting on a shelf. Even DVDs I bought in the past year (Spiderverse, Aquaman) are starting to deteriorate. Crazy. Does disc rot affect cartridges too?

[@chrisrichards2350]

I was shocked to find this out.

[@Jenovi]

It's disappointing when you discover a game has it.

[@markn1090]

I just checked my MGS discs and thankfully nothing. Do you have any experience with sega saturn discs? I am getting into expensive imports and now worried about this issue.

[@Jenovi]

I do. Honestly, most cd based disc are at higher risk for disc rot. Out of the 50 or so Saturn games I own, none have been affected whereas a have a handful of Sega CD games that are nonfunctional. The Saturn seems to be the best of the Sega made disc likely due to better pressing standards on old tech. On the other hand, the Dreamcast is notorious for having rot issues due to new tech and poor standards. Just take the typical precautions, and you should be fine.

[@Mike-t5r9q]

what's wrong with the cd storage cases to store your disks ?

[@palemonvazquez1383]

what if you cover the small pin holes with. permanent sharpie marker?

[@brs293]

Is there a way to make a copy onto a new disc?

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

I think this happened to my copy of GTAV. Suddenly, it stopped receiving certain controls and the map stopped working, and got worse with every retry. Later, it froze as the loading screen for the beggining of the game loaded. Now I have digital, but still. Weirdly enough, with THAT disc in especific, back when it still worked, the PS always had this high pitched beeping sound as it shut down, and only that game. None of my other games have anything like this Edit: Just torched my GTAV copy and it is full of pinholes

[@johneygd]

For what i know is that cd’s can rot from uv sunlight and moisture or by a poor manufactor process. I got a burned music cd for 21 years by a few years back the sound is gonne sounding like noisy ,despite i,ve kept them in it’s cd case away from the sun, i heard that burned cd’s are more valnurble from disc rot then stamped cd’s, but again it depends on many factors mentioned earlier.

[@BigAlvideos101]

I have a copy of Tales of Symphonia Chronicles on PS3 that I bought brand new a couple of years ago, looks like it has 3 or 4 little specks on it that look like pin prick sized holes, but they aren't actually holes, as well as a section under the label that looks similar, but in a speckled look instead of one dot, though I can only see them if I hold the disc up to a light source. I'm a collector as well as a gamer, and disc rot something that I fear extremely badly, even though I've never dealt with it before! Since it's a Blu-ray disc, it has no scratches on it, and I haven't even played it yet since I've been so busy with other games, but I'm terrified nonetheless! Having anxiety about it doesn't help either! I REALLY hope it isn't disc rot, as I've heard that Tales of Symphia Chronicles is a rare game now (it wasn't when I bought it), which means that getting another copy if needed will be a massive pain in the rear end!

[@Jenovi]

The good news is with Bluray Disc, this is typically a sign of what I would refer to as label rot. For Gamecube disc, this is bad news because it's a good indicator there was an issue during the pressing that will lead to issues with the data itself. Most other DVDs and newer media have been subjected to better quality pressing standards that keep the data sandwiched between a bunch of protective layers meaning even if there is delamination of the label itself, the disc should still be ok as it's not necessarily an indicator of rot as is it is with a CD. The last major issue I'm aware of was with the pressing of HD-DVD's, Speaking on newer storage disc such ad 4k disc, there isn't a ton of info out there, but what there is looks promising for the longevity of Bluray disc and beyond. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to leave a comment. I hope this eases your worries a bit. -Jenovi

[@BigAlvideos101]

Can label rot turn into disc rot? Will the game play properly with label rot? Thanks for the reply- it has helped my anxiety quite a bit, especially because I take great care of my discs so it wouldn't make sense for disc rot to happen to me unless I bought the game defective to begin with! Luckily for me, I happen to have a copy of MGS: The Twin Snakes that has no signs of disc rot, probably because the game store I buy from takes care of their stuff as well!

[@Jenovi]

-Can label rot turn into disc rot? It depends on what kind of disc it is. CD's? Yes. Everything else? Not necessarily. On a CD the label and information layer are next to each other. All other discs separate this layer. If it's only label damage on say a Bluray disc you won't have any issues playing it. Of course you can also have rot without label damage.

[@BigAlvideos101]

Thanks for all of this information! It's really helping me out here! I just have on more question for you- I have another disc that's also a Blu-ray that happens to have a similar dot-like mark on it to the ones I mentioned before. It plays fine for the most part, but it does have one small section near the end of the game in which there's a small skip during that section. Now, it's not a huge concern, but I was just wondering if with that game, there's any way of telling if the skip was caused by disc rot, label rot, or something else! There's no scratches on it or anything, so that can be ruled out! I'd also like to know if there's any way of telling if the skip was not actually caused by the mark, but by something else entirely, which could be likely despite the fact that I've thoroughly examined that disc over the years! Since it looks just like the marks on the discs I mentioned before, I'm still a bit nervous about it, but because of your extremely helpful information, I'm a lot better off than I was when I made my original comment!

[@Jenovi]

Just to be clear, label rot doesn't affect data on any disc that isn't a CD. The only sure fire way to know is by ripping the disc to a computer or using a data verifying program. There is always a chance that the disc was damaged by other means or that the plastic protective layer is damaged. This wouldn't necessarily damage the date but it would make it hard for the laser to read.

[@mvuanyeusi]

just checked my copy of animal crossing for the gamecube and sure enough it has the tiniest bit of disc rot :(

[@craziestrufis]

what programming do i use to check my disk games for the damage?

[@KaosNova2]

I also noticed that Games like Super Smash Brothers Brawl become unplayable to the console sooner than others. Does it have to do with a different kind of disc?

[@ZeusWeus]

For anyone here in the comments looking for solace, look, if you store your discs right, treat them well and look after them they will most likely outlive you ok? However, this guy raises a good point, always enjoy what you buy regardless of how long it lasts.

[@kensims4086]

Call a disc manufacturing company like i did. 4 companies told me they arent made to last longer than few years the chemicals inside break down. Thats why i buy records..my cd's started to rot so i gave up..

[@ZeusWeus]

@@kensims4086 There are a million things that aren't meant to last longer than a few years in this world that you can make last for decades with the right treatment, discs are one of them, also not sure what companies you have spoken to but that's not what the companies I emailed told me

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

All my PS Discs are in the cases they came in and the ones that don't share the case with one that has it. It doesn't look fancy, but as long ad the disc lives

[@naikjoy]

does food vacuum sealer help cds?

[@dafoerder]

Would vacuum sealing them for storage work?

[@yatsey007]

When's your next video up mate?

[@Jenovi]

Allan Yates Well in a string of massive bad luck, my computer went belly up right before I finished the next video. It was under warranty so I sent it in for repair. Fast forward 2 weeks and I just received an e-mail today that they can't repair it, and are sending a new one. So the footage is lost and the next review will be pushed back some time as it required beating 6 games to make. On another note, I didn't lose any of my scripts as I back them up. The next video up will now instead focus on the 6 button controller as it's ready to shoot.

[@patrickkapoun468]

What if I put a screen protector on the disc? If I put on screen protector on the top of the disc, could that stop stuff from deteriorating?

[@Jenovi]

Only in that it might stop scratched from getting though on CDs. Not DVDs or Blu Rays. Also, you need to be careful and verify the adhesive is safe.

[@crtgamer2355]

You forget the layer with the data pressed into the plastic, the foil is only there for the laser to read the data pressed in the plastic, this is how original cd's are pressed.

[@torgogorgo1888]

I'm not sure about my MGS TS, will have to play it, looks like a couple spots where there may be something but no flaking or chipping or pinholes it didn't give me a problem when I tried it out and I see no flaking. Thought the research I've done shows you are correct, the cover art flaking is an issue with that game in particular, but it also seems it does not render it unplayable. I have a Suikoden 5 disc that seems to have some incredibly tiny ones, but the disc art seems to be fairly light on it generally. Just odd as I played it for 140ish hours over the summer and never had an issue. Same as I've seen it in a couple other ps2 games (NCAA 11, Test Drive EoD) with no issues as well. I can't see the pinholes in normal light, only with the iPhone flashlight pushed up to it. Also in PS4 games like NHL 17, which I put a couple hundred hours into with less freezing on average than previous years versions of the game with no defects.

[@Jenovi]

If the corrupted data is never requested, you may never experience an issue with the game. As far as MGS-TS goes, the top layer is only an art layer as the disc is a dvd. Some disc will still work. However, it's a strong indicator that the disc had issues during the pressing process and will at some point develop further problems. Thanks for watching!

[@Dongled]

Just wanted to address the MGS:TS thing. I did a bit of digging and apparently, even though it's "technically" disc rot with the tops of the disc cracking, it is well above the data layer so as long as the bottom of the disc is fine, it should play without issues. Apparently, this is an extremely common thing for this particular game as you mentioned and you're right that Gamecube...for whatever reason, seems to be plagued with these disc rotting issues. I just replaced a POP Sands of Time as it had some pretty bad disc rot. Its weird though...for MGS TS, the copy I have is the one I got at launch and held onto it all this time and aside from playing through it once when it came out, I never went back to it.

[@TonyGarrett-p1c]

I do wonder about storing one's archival optical discs in some oxygen-free environment. I reckon sealed in a mylar bag or metal can, with oxygen absorbers and/or a nitrogen flush. Maybe include a desiccant?

[@Old_SnakeTwitch]

So my twin snakes (maybe) has 1 smallest pinhole on each disk, where the gamcube logo is, one disk has the hole set inside the E of gamecube where light mostly passes through anyways, and the other disc has a similar maybe pinhole right beside the E.. Is this rot? Or normal?

[@GabrielMartinez-pe6ln]

What software do you use to test the integrity of the discs?

[@gbraadnl]

0:08 probably would have been better to use a white background and place both logos on top of this, as this Philips logo is not supposed to have a white shield (inverted). Company's are strict about distortion of their logos or marks.

[@doomedhuh]

why does it occur so often with gamecube games compared to other systems?

[@Jenovi]

I feel it's bad pressings caused by the form factor and tooling. We are seeing the same thing with HD-DVD's.

[@SnipeMD]

I always thought that the twin snakes was just discolored to signify the diffrence between disk 1 and disk 2.

[@Degga911]

Cheers bud. Not been collecting long for the Wii and PS2 but will be keeping this in mind. Phone LED will come in handy in the future.

[@Jenovi]

+Derek Dymond the good news is these are systems with seldom noted problems, and that's fairly positive considering how popular both were. If there are issues they will more then likely follow specific games as most DVD pressed media has issues due to contamination during the pressing process. Also of note, Wii disc are a proprietary format.

[@msd5808]

What is wrong with a CD wallet? do they not keep moisture out?

[@Jenovi]

It's been a while since I researched this. I believe they put undue pressure on the disc and don't give the disc a stable position. Some plastics in some sleeve will bond to the disc over time too.

[@duhdeedee]

I have a copy of Lunar: Eternal Blue (Sega CD) that I've ran on a Model 2 Sega CD and a PC w/ Kega Fusion and in an area near the end of the game, it takes a long time to load and the graphics are extremely glitched but it could be finished last time I played it. It never hit me to look for disc rot.

[@jaygaming7257]

I have disc rot on my black ops 3 which is a bluray disc on the ps4. Is this because I havent played it in a long time? My ps4 says its unreadable

[@Jenovi]

Is the disc scratched and have you tried it in another PS4? Due to better pressing practices and moving the info to the center of the disc, it's extremely rare to have rot with Blurays.

[@jaygaming7257]

Jenovi its not scratched as ive only played it a handful of times however there is severe rot on the edge

[@duskonanyavarld1786]

Clean the disc, it helped me.

[@_Sayba_]

Thank You for this video! It was very informative!

[@ThickpropheT]

Wow, I wondered why my twin snakes disc was all flaky on top. That sucks

[@Justinpitchford]

Why a jewel and not a sleeve????

[@Jenovi]

I believe there are two main issues here. 1. Warpage over time in certain conditions. 2. Concern over potential damage to the top label which protects that data on CD's. Again, it's a long term issue only relevant to certain climate conditions and materials.

[@FawfulRox]

I'm confused. Can this happen to DVDs or no?

[@Jenovi]

Yes. Gamecube disc are actually DVDs. It's really dependent on the quality of the pressing and adhesive layers that keep the data layer protected from the elements.

[@usavideogames7599]

Hi thanks im a subscriber. When you hold up a disc to the light and see about 1, 2 or 3 tiny see through pin hole size spots that allow the light to pass through the top paper artwork layer, will the game pretty much still be ok to play just fine ? How many tiny pin hole size see through specs might be ok ? 1, 2, 3, etc. ? Thanks. Anybody knowledgeable please reply soon.

[@tjnickles4782]

hay man I have a dvd that has my baby video on it it was transferred from a VHS to DVD and I haven't had the disc not even a year and it's already entered our problems there are times the disc Will play fine but then there are times the disc won't play at all

[@Jenovi]

+Tj Nickles sorry to hear that. You better back it up ASAP if possible. I should do a video about digitizing your VHS collection.

[@esk8jaimes]

What's the name of that intro song, who's it by?

[@Jenovi]

That's a song I did for the show. Both the intro and outro were originals.

[@TerraWare]

I just checked my copy of Metal Gear I picked up for a couple bucks a few weeks ago in case mint condition unaware of this rot stuff and thank god there were no holes of any kind on either disk. Time to check the rest. Fingers crossed.

[@hadrienwat9777]

Can anyone tell me what's the music at 0:30 ? please please please Great video otherwise !

[@yorgle11]

My most ridiculous experience with a dodgy CD was about 10 years ago when I was playing Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land on PS2. When that game had cutscenes, sometimes the game would "die". Not lock up, but it would just sit there not doing anything. I eventually figured out that I could eject the disc and reinsert it, then the game would make another attempt to load and it would continue working. There was also a couple music tracks that didn't play properly, but nothing game breaking. I enjoyed that game a lot and played through to the very end. As I walked into what was obviously the arena for the final battle, the game stopped to load a cutscene. It died as it had done in the past. This time, no amount of ejecting and reinserting the disc would make any difference. I could hear the drive trying the read the disc and always failing. I quit. Few days later I reloaded my game and got back to the same spot, same thing. I could not get that cutscene to load. Looking close at the disc I found that there were some pinholes. I presume it was physical damage, but maybe it was natural rot, I don't know. (That game is a CD, not a DVD) In order to play the final battle and actually finish the game, I had to buy another copy on eBay. It probably wasn't rational, but I really liked that game, and I didn't want to let a bad CD stop me from finishing it. The replacement worked perfectly. There was a downside though. On my replacement copy, I discovered a lost music track that had never played on my damaged one. That music track had vocal singing in it which I had never heard in that game before, and when it played I was wishing I knew where on the disc to scratch it out. :)

[@Jenovi]

I had the same issue with Spider-man on Sega CD. Not the song issue though, that's a funny story.

[@zeromancer-x]

I suspect that this happened to my first copy of KOTOR 2 for the PC. When I tried to reinstall the game several years later, disc 3 would repeatedly fail. It had been out of the case only once or twice.

[@Jenovi]

Always a disappointment to find disc have rotten away.

[@RedeckiJamie24]

What about bluray disc

[@Jenovi]

Not many reported issues. They are designed to last the lifetime of the owner. I think manufacturing defects aside, it makes sense.

[@dougr.8653]

Today the blue ray disc tech is much more improved than its first years. The first pressings from PS3 games were terrible. There were cases of disc rot within months.

[@magmavision2000]

so far I've only had one Blu-ray disc get disc rot

[@tabuoey]

this is so crazy, i never knew about this... i will have to check my discs

[@nicks4802]

Check your copies of grand theft auto 4. Mine wasnt touched and left in my closet for 5 years, and now it doesnt work right. textures, audio and certain menus and screens no longer load.

[@III1IlIIlIllIl]

I got a copy brand new from Amazon for ps3.

[@cutecatsara123]

Another reason why emulation of older games are important

[@13Gangland]

Because your cheap?

[@mageofjapanbackup]

I'll be honest I've not been big believer in disc rot not that mean that that "fantasy" but believe in that had more do with ppl mistreating there stuff But when you said never seen good copy Twin Snakes I grab my copy and... disc 2 had the cracks in the label (disc 1 is 100% fine tho) I have to ask do feel this something that only effected some the discs in prints or feel this problem all GC discs will have? What other games would you say this common with also?

[@poleon2003]

Some of my GameCube discs have the top artwork peeled of a bit (like Metroid Prime 2 Echoes and LEGO Star Wars 2.) but I can still play through them just fine so should I be worried about it?

[@ThePrinzKassad]

Just a thought... CD/DVDs are read by a laser which is searching for pit and lands so PHYSICAL grooves inside the disc INSIDE the plastic layer and if someone don't know... plastic doesn't rot... but the reflective layer does... sooo why don't carefully separate a disc and just "recasting" the pit and lands in a new disc like people do with a vinyl record? Of course, they are very very very very very tiny but not impossible since CD/DVDs also used to be PRESSED sooo... Am I right or didn't I understood the principle of a optical media? :/

[@Pythoner]

What is that Godzilla fighting game?

[@Spicypuff]

i have some ps3 game that have pricks on them like AC black flag but its nostly seems to just be the image on the top of the disc. Will it still afffect my game?

[@Jenovi]

The data layer on a PS3 disc is near the center. You have nothing to worry about here.

[@njmfan8354]

hello thanks for the video i have a question is the disc rot affects game consoles ? because am afraid to damage my ps3

[@Krahhf]

No it only damages the disc but not your console

[@njmfan8354]

@@Krahhf but not your console ? what do you mean by that ?

[@Krahhf]

@@njmfan8354 it doesn't damage you ps3

[@njmfan8354]

@@Krahhf thank you

[@Jenovi]

Some good news is modern disc, especially Blu Ray are much better built with life expectancy projected at 100 years. So you should be good.

[@smerk429]

THANKS FOR YOUR HARD WORK BROTHER... I have some qames i bouqht without noticin at first.... Am i Screwed?... A few PS3 Games i bouqht have small scratches here n there on THE TOP PAPER/FOIL PART SMH 😥😞 DO GAMES STILL PLAY JUST FINE IF THEY HAVE SOME LITTLE SPOTS, SPECS OR LITTLE SCRATCHES ON THE TOP PAPER/FOIL PART ON A PS3 DISC? *** I DONT HAVE A PS3 TO TEST THEM YET BUT I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF SOME GAMES ARE STILL OK AND DONT SKIP OR FREEZE WITH MINOR SCRATCHES ON TOP OF DISC. * Will VIDEO GAME DISCS BE OK & UNAFFECTED WITH (SMALL SCRATCHES) IN THE METAL ARTWORK FOIL ON TOP OF THE DISC AS WELL? ANYBODY KNOWLEDGABLE PLEASE REPLY SOON

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for the comment. So with Blu Rays and DVDs the info is protected by two plastic layers. This means the label can be scratched and the game will remain unaffected. CD's this is not the case.

[@smerk429]

@@Jenovi thank u very much. I hope they work. I dont have a ps3 to test. U think qame stop will take them or uthink theyl automaticaly be declined due to scratches on the top of the disc on the artwork? Im tryn to sell them but i dont want to sell them unless they work lol

[@BenMelluish]

I know it's a DVD (HD-DVD??), but I have a copy of Mass Effect on Xbox 360 that has a fairly large 'pin hole' that appears when you shine a light through it. I only bought it for a £1 or something, so I wasn't too bothered. Just out of curiosity, I ripped it on my PC and the checksum matched perfectly with Redump.org, so it's not always a certainty that it's damaged if there's apparent holes in the label/data layer.

[@Jenovi]

Hey Ben. The bad news is almost all HD-DVDs have this issue. The good news is no games used the format, so that Mass Effect game is on a standard DVD. Unlike a standard CD, the data layer for a DVD is in the center of the disc and sandwiched between two protective plastic layers. So holding it up to the light will in most cases only show label damage. A CD, on the other hand has the label printed directly over the data layer, so damage to the top of the disc also means damage to the data. If the checksum checks out, you should be clear. The most important thing when seeing organic label damage on a dvd is to remember that it’s a good indicator of a poorly pressed disc. One that will almost certainly suffer from disc rot.

[@jimihendrix731]

This is why I sold my entire Saturn and Dreamcast collection. I saw the beginnings of disc rot on several games and knew these games were on borrowed time.

[@brocktherock9244]

Well you could always burn your Dreamcast games.

[@Z64sports]

None of mine have even begun to show issues

[@palemonvazquez1383]

really a small pin hole? all my sega dreamcast have them so are they all going to be unplayable at the end?

[@junrho]

Did you ever get a copy of that MGS?

[@Jenovi]

Vato Guns Not yet. I haven't even seen one for sale in about a year.

[@rojonabb]

I've been worried about this for some time since all my gamecube and wii games seem just fine but I have definately seen a couple of this tiny pinholes in a lot of ps4 games even the ones I just bought and played like sekiro or the last of us part II so I'm starting to think it might be normal. Do you think this is something to worry about considering they all have been kept under the same conditions? BTW Greetings from Mexico

[@Spats2Bats]

Eeeek! I'm so glad I came across this video as I've never truly heard data rot explained until now just browsing youtube. I'm guessing this happens to musical discs as well? At some point I'll take some time to go through the CDs I have and inspect them for disc rot. Don't know how I would react though if I found my favorite music or game disc experiencing disc rot...just the thought of a game I spent so many childhood hours on to get to 100 percent just rotting away memory is terrifying. :(

[@Jenovi]

It's unfortunate, but less common with new media. DVD's having issues are typically related to contamination during the pressing process. The one positive thing I can say is if you have media that is 20+ years old without rot, it should last another 50 + years with proper care. Thanks for checking out the video.

[@tjnickles4782]

one last thing I just want to say my dvd also had some scratches but I know for a fact the scratches isn't the cause of the disc skipping I believe the disc may start to get corrupted or I could be wrong

[@enterprisedavidcain]

allmost all my disc media is in disc wallets. i mostly get the 90+ disc wallets. i hate the big 200+ wallets. i've did this for over 10 years and never came up with disc rot. i know cd and dvd discs can get scratched but blu-rays are perfect for wallets. i want to know how can discs in wallets can get disc rot.

[@mrratchet]

Is there a way I can show someone a picture of my GC game? I see two tiny specs but I'm unsure if it's disc rot. Pretty frustrating since I'm from a PAL region but only buy NTSC games, making this an even more expensive endeavour.

[@Area51UFOGynaecology]

my twin snakes discs look like new thankfully, maybe the PAL version was of a different print run?

[@morrisdennison8039]

Maybe not today, maybe not twelve years from now but every cd/dvd you ever have will rot

[@Area51UFOGynaecology]

@@morrisdennison8039 il be rotting in my grave way before that

[@jmullner76]

Love the use of AH3 Thunderstrike music in the video.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks!

[@vjpearce]

Wow. I'm saving up for a caravan to live in and was going to take my games with me. Since it'll be like an oven in the summer, I might need to invest in some cool boxes to store my games in, when not being played. Not sure if that'll keep them safe or not. Also: Never store games in a sleeve system. I just had to replace 17 Wii and Wii U games recently due to warping. Luckily my Klonoa and Muchables came out safe. I was literally crossing my fingers testing those two.

[@miamiveterano564]

You're going to live in a van, and you seem proud of it🤔😂

[@vjpearce]

@@miamiveterano564 So? Have you seen the rent prices around the North Kent coast? I can't afford it. PS: I don't think of it as a van. It's a flat on wheels.

[@miamiveterano564]

@@vjpearce you are happy to live like a hermit, taking your tiny home with you everywhere ❓ What if someone steals it or you get into an accident❓ Valuables lost, destroyed or stolen. How long do you plan on living in a van. Is this temporary or permanent. Don't let these KZbin van dwellers fool you; they are living off big KZbin 💰.

[@vjpearce]

@@miamiveterano564 It's a static caravan on a Carvan site that I'm saving up for and I'm not following the KZbin "van dwellers trend." either.

[@smerk429]

Are video qames made like dvds or cds?

[@Jenovi]

Both. Depends on the system in question.

[@smerk429]

@@Jenovi ok thanx. Its kuz i bouqht qames & didnt check them. They have see throqh scratches where liqht passes. Its for PS3. I dont have a system to test them. Bouqht them to flip them. Do small scratches like these normally mean the discs are worthless and non functional or have u seen discs with see throuqh scratches on the top artwork work just fine? Anybody knowledqable please reply soon.

[@samuraistalin]

Why does storing games in a CD wallet exacerbate any possible disc rot?

[@Jenovi]

samuraistalin Thanks for the question. Here are a few reasons to avoid sleeves and some other info. -When it comes to compact disc, the top protective lacquer layer is thin. Sliding a disk in and out of a sleeve can can produce unnecessary wear and scratches to the top and bottom. While the bottom can be buffed, the lacquer on the top is more often then not uneven, and can be extremely thin in spots. It's also important to note that the buffer between the data layer and lacquer layer can be super thin near the outside edge of the disk. -Disk in sleeve storage systems can also warp disk over time due to the uneven pressure caused by disk around them. -Sleeves with plastic fronts have also been known to bond with cds stored in them over a long One thing that needs to be mentioned is jewel case warping. Warping has also been known to occur when disk stored in jewel cases are not stored on their edge. This is due to how many cases only support the disc at the center hub, and the outside environment's impact over a large period of time. Speaking of the center hub, if the case holds the disk so tightly that you need to flex the disc to remove it from the case, that case will slowly cause damage to the disc due to the unnecessary strain placed on it during removal, cracking the protective layer that prevents oxidation from occurring. The last thing I would like you to know is that there is data to show that if your disc has lasted 20-30 years, it has a high probability of lasting another 25-50. My personal belief when it comes to older games is if you don't have any with rot, you don't add any to your collection that are rotting, and you treat your games with care, they have a high probability of lasting longer then most of us will live. Hope the reply wasn't to long, and informative. Thanks for watching. -Jenovi

[@Batmans_Justice]

Do Blu Ray (especially PS4 games) have a percentage of taking the "Disc Rot"? Or is it rare for a Blu Ray to happen?

[@Davidevgen]

ive heard its possible but i think blu rays are made in a higher quality

[@Batmans_Justice]

@@Davidevgen Exact. The Disc Rot, mainly afflicted the very first CDs, because this "plague" was not yet known. I have CDs from 1994, which don't have the slightest sign. The point is that the Disc Rot manifests itself above all on badly scratched discs and left out of the case for a long time, exposing them to environmental contamination (oxygen and sulfur). Personally I have never had this problem, since I treat my Discs well. However yes, Blu-ray is much more resistant than a normal CD, that's why they risk very little to take the disc rot.

[@Davidevgen]

@@Batmans_Justice indeed! but ive had one dvd die on me due to dual layer separation several years later. so disc rot is real. but rare.

[@Batmans_Justice]

@@Davidevgen For curiosity. Was it a real DVD (I mean, a movie/game DVD) or was it a virgin DVD, like Verbatim? (empty to burn)

[@magmavision2000]

can someone tell me the name of the Godzilla game he's playing?

[@Jenovi]

I think that's the PC Engine game.

[@rmixfreestyle7709]

Question, if only the label part being scratched on the ps4 game is showing shiny metal. And can see when held to a light, its blue ray disk can it work still