Disc Rot - What is it, how is it affecting cd based games, and how can you can avoid it?

Episode 3 - Lets talk about Disc Rot. A blight on disc based video game collections, what exactly is it, how do you avoid it, and in my experience what system has the biggest issue with affected disc?
-Jenovi
Original hardware is always used when capturing footage.
::::: Episode System Hardware Breakdown::::
PC Engine Duo-R
Gamecube
Gameplay footage is Captured using:
RBG and Component via the Framemeister to the Elgato HD 60

[@Jenovi]

One thing I didn't really address in the video is the expectation of disc rot as a percentage over the course of X number of years. Available data would suggest disc that are without defect and are at least 20-30 years old will last another 25-50 years if not longer under the right conditions. A disc's longevity comes down to environment, no contaminates being introduced during manufacturing, and no issues in the pressing. If there are no issues with the disc by the above stated time, it's just a mater of waiting for some of the other elements to deteriorate due to time it self such as the lacquer layer, or the adhesive used to hold the disc together. -Jenovi

[@yatsey007]

Jenovi that certainly sucks dude. I'm glad the ordeal hasn't put you off entirely as I enjoy your videos. Look forward to the new one 👍

[@ThePreciseClimber]

In 80 years we'll all be dead so I guess it's not so bad.

[@1rbdfl]

Since the cause is known, have you become aware of any further steps that can be taken, such as (re)sealing the sides and top of the discs for undamaged examples with a solvent-free coating? I'm thinking of something along the lines of silicone conformal coating. Additionally, do you have any first hand or in-depth knowledge of a reliable archival quality media/disc that we could use to make copies of our beloved CDs before they all eventually fade?

[@Gryphsolion]

Jenovi I have a sly 3 demo disc that the top label is scratched but it works perfectly just needs resurfaced I'm able to pull the files off of it perfectly but the ps2 can't load it from the scratched bottom the label isn't anything big it plays in a emulator from the disc so it's probably needing a resurface for it to load on console

[@timdrake2020]

Jenovi well I just bought a brand new copy of MGS TTS on GCN opened it to find that disc one is already rotting.

[@mr.nicktheboy1030]

It seems inevitable to happen to many games in the future. I'm glad many games now have their ISOs uploaded to the internet, as if they weren't we would have lost all of these great games.

[@FallicIdol]

In the late 80s/early 90s, we were told cds would last forever. The blank cds I used for music started going within 10 years.

[@Larry]

All the CD rot I've had are with Amiga CDTV or CD32 games, bought a joblot of amiga CD's inside a sleeve case and a copy of Lemmings was so bad, it had literally melted into the paper behind it.

[@Jenovi]

Holly heck! That’s insane and really sucky. Aren’t the CD32 games hard to come by?

[@bluefates58]

@@Jenovi Hey what kind of software were you using at 5:38, I was checking my games and I think I found some pin holes

[@OfficialUknow]

Gamecube has a lot

[@cessnaace]

That's tough Larry. PDO UK (Philips Dupont Optical) made LaserDiscs, CDs, and DVDs. Possibly game discs too, although I don't know for sure. PDO has a terrible reputation for producing discs that rot. PDO also had pressing plants for CD and DVDs in the the U.K., U.S. and West Germany. Those pressed in the U.S. should say Manufactured in U.S.A. by PDO (or Philips Dupont Optical) either on the label or in the outer ring of the disc. Those manufactured in West Germany will either say Manufactured in West Germany by Philips Dupont Optical, or PolyGram on the early ones. Some might have it printed on the disc in the inner ring. LaserDisc pressed in the U.K. will say Manufactured in England on the Jackets, and usually the labels. No mint marks or manufacturer identification on the discs themselves.

[@Larry]

@@cessnaace is there any thing you can do to save them?

[@Decidetto]

*Feverishly starts to rip backups of all his CD-ROMs*

[@ButcherGrindslam]

Optical media is refered as "DisC", not "disK". Second version is for magnetic storage.

[@Mr.77776]

I've never had a problem with disc rot. I have over 3,600 cds . I even keep them in the attic in there original cases. I listen to them often and not one of them has disk rot. It gets hot in the attic in the summer and cold in the winter. No disc rot whatsoever. I think it's more of a manufacturing defect. That might cause disk rot over time. I've never experienced it. Thank God!

[@bitbybit-eu]

I have been battling disc rot myself, so always on the lookout for new information to restore or prevent it. Good video!

[@Jenovi]

It's a bummer. One reason I prefer collecting for cart based systems over disc.

[@bitbybit-eu]

@@Jenovi same here. I switched to cart collecting

[@pentiummmx2294]

my ps1 collection has vanished, and the laser on my ps1 has also failed, im about to either get it modded with a xstation and pirate my whole collection or just recycle it and migrate to emulation.

[@millennialthatplaysfortnit4608]

@@JenoviI thought data rot can happen to carts, can’t that too?

[@MrMario2011]

The problem with checking disc integrity is due to copy protection it can be difficult if you don't have the know-how or special hardware/software. The PlayStation consoles for example are easy enough as you can rip those games over easily enough with a standard drive. The original Xbox for example cannot have games ripped in the same manner, you would need a modified console and then rip the game using the console itself either to the system or over your network using the system.

[@Jenovi]

I agree, and appreciate your comment. Thanks for the information in regard to the X-box. I learned something new today.

[@NASIRUB1]

The emulation community needs to make an original Xbox emulator so people can play that console on PC. I never owned an Xbox back then and do to space limitations and the possibility of a console like that breaking because of wear and tear, I wouldn't buy it so having an emulation of it on the PC would work better for me, even if they did something like Sega on Steam and gave us the emulator for free bundled with a few games and charged us for each game individually after, I would accept this. I don't think Microsoft knows they would make a killing in sales by adding something like this to their Windows Store.

[@jubjub444]

Xbox is less likely to deteriorate though since its not an old type of disc

[@BlueBARv5]

@@Jenovi What program do you use to check the integrity of your disc files?

[@hawkmanhawk]

I've always kinda called shenanigans on disc rot. So after you said TwinSnakes has problems, I went to my copy sitting on a shelf for sometime in my gameroom. Air conditioned, never below 65 or hotter than 80. Disc 1 has scales. I'm heart broken checking all my discs now starting with GameCube. WTF happened during this games production.

[@hawkmanhawk]

I forgot in my duplicates box, I had a disc only set of TwinSnakes that did time in the garage. Looks fine. I played the messed up copy till first meeting Merryl with no issue. I recorded the entire session to capture any issues none happened.

[@megacide84]

Stephen Hawkey and this is why I now primarily buy digital copies of games online. Worst case scenario...It'd be easier to replace a console or a hard drive then an entire collection.

[@redwingdog22]

What does disc rot look like on metal gear GameCube?

[@codak29]

Try watching the video. He shows Metal Gear on Gamecube with disc rot 4-5 times.

[@robertsnow5484]

HellsAttack man it’s crazy I checked eBay and a lot of the listings have disc rot. When I worked at GameStop I saw a lot of twin snakes copies like that but always assumed they were fine because the bottom looked good. On another note ... I wonder if the players choice version of twin Snakes has this issue as well?

[@willgregg1076]

I hope my Master Of Puppets CD will be ok.

[@GabrielMartinez-pe6ln]

Did you rip it on your computer?

[@Abic__]

I've read that pinholes are usually formed when the reflective layer is put on and dust that has formed on the polycarbonate disc prevents the coating from sticking in small spots. I have found brand new ps4 games that have lots of pinholes but play completely fine, so I believe that pinholes most of the time aren't necessarily rot.

[@Jenovi]

When discussing Blu Ray or DVD, that’s true. Especially when looking at newer disc because pressing tech has dramatically improved. Those PS4 games should outlive a couple generations as long as there was no problem during production. HD-DVDs are the best example of this. When discussing CD’s, it’s rot 100% of the time when you see a pin hole because the art is the protective layer.

[@brotothewilliams9890]

ps4 doesnt constantly read game disks

[@III1IlIIlIllIl]

@@brotothewilliams9890 they use to. Xbox one reads the disk when its offline.

[@rikafurude729]

Thanks for making this video. You taught me how to keep my Dreamcast and GameCube collections safe

[@vince19games]

Super informative video! I hardly knew anything about disc rot except that it sounds awful. As a Dreamcast collector, I held my breath for a moment when you flashed the Dreamcast on screen just before saying which console suffers the most from disc rot! It's rare that you can watch a video and immediately have some concrete tools to add to your arsenal afterwards. I am going to be inspecting discs a lot more closely now. Thanks!

[@cessnaace]

The only Dreamcast game that I've had a hard time finding a decent copy of is Walt Disney World Quest Magical Racing Tour. There's a way to increase the power on the laser in the Dreamcast, which requires opening the console up, but I don't mess around with lasers. Even when a laser beam is invisible it can blind you.

[@_Sayba_]

Thank You for this video! It was very informative!

[@realevostevo]

Very interesting. I kinda wonder if this has happened to me. Years ago I had to chuck a copy of Dead or Alive 4 due to the disc being unreadable. When I looked at the surface of the readable side it had a strange swirly look to it that wasn't surface damage. I don't know if this was disc rot or not. Caught that last part about not storing games in cd binders. That's actually how I've stored my Dreamcast games for the last couple months. I think I'll take your word for it and put them all back in their jewel cases. It was just easier to have them all in one case but it's not worth losing any of them. Nice vid 👍🏻

[@skywalkerhunter95]

in films and music, the CD/VCD and Bluray are more durable than DVDs. i use a particular outdoor permanent red marker to ''recoat'' the inner and outer ring of the disc to prevent this, so far it helps

[@cessnaace]

As someone with large CD, game, and LaserDisc collections this has been a concern of mine for a long time. LaserDiscs (most are 12" in diameter) are my biggest concern. The format launched in 1978 and lasted until 2002 (2007 for smaller LD Singles). As a collector you learn which pressing plants produced problematic discs. Pressing plants around the world were used for U.S. releases. DiscoVision was the very first plant, and so their discs had a lot of problems. Many LD pressing plants also pressed CDs. With LDs you can tell which plant pressed a disc by looking at the mint marks (early Pioneer pressings, in both the U.S. and Japan) had no mint marks). PDO UK (they never used mint marks), which also made CD and other optical disc formats has a terrible reputation when it comes to disc rot. Early DVDs pressed by WAMO (Warner Bros.) are also problematic. I got in the habit years ago of physically inspecting all discs carefully, but a disc can look perfect and still be bad.

[@Degga911]

Cheers bud. Not been collecting long for the Wii and PS2 but will be keeping this in mind. Phone LED will come in handy in the future.

[@Jenovi]

+Derek Dymond the good news is these are systems with seldom noted problems, and that's fairly positive considering how popular both were. If there are issues they will more then likely follow specific games as most DVD pressed media has issues due to contamination during the pressing process. Also of note, Wii disc are a proprietary format.

[@tabuoey]

this is so crazy, i never knew about this... i will have to check my discs

[@chrisrichards2350]

I was shocked to find this out.

[@Jenovi]

It's disappointing when you discover a game has it.

[@KylesDigitalLab]

Minor correction, audio CDs ("Red Book") were released in October 1982 in Japan (US and Europe in 1983). But CD-ROMs weren't released until the mid to late 1980s. Apparently Denon/Sony demoed it publicly in 1984, but there's some confusion about when the CD-ROM spec was published, the Wikipedia article on CD-ROM both gives a date of 1983 and 1988. Other sources say 1986. Also I have audio CDs that date back to at least 1985 pressed by CBS/Sony Japan, and they still read just fine. It depends on the plant that pressed the disc, some plants had high disc rot, and some didn't. Also I think pinholes aren't disc rot, but an error in manufacturing. Lots of early CDs had these.

[@jmullner76]

Love the use of AH3 Thunderstrike music in the video.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks!

[@konradwroblewski2115]

Personally I haven't found the GameCube discs to be bad. The discs I did have troubles with were scratched beyond belief and resembled a skating rink so I won't attribute those issues to disc rot. Although I wouldn't be surprised if more people make complaints about the GameCube ones seeing as collecting for GameCube seems to be more popular than other disc based platforms. So they games are in higher demand, plus they're more expensive in comparison to PS2, Xbox, PlayStation, DreamCast, etc. Especially PS2 and Xbox games. People aren't likely to be super pissed about a $5 game not working. Sega cd based games have a bad reputation for disc rot from what I've heard but at the end of the day I think this is just a boogeyman to scare collectors. I've been collecting for both GameCube and DreamCast and I can't recall a time that a disc did not work if it looked nice and clean. I've had scratched ones not work but never clean ones, and I own slightly under 100 games between those 2 platforms. Maybe 15-20 years down the line this will be a big problem but not now.

[@Jenovi]

I have over 100 games on each of the following platforms. Gamecube, Saturn, Dreamcast, Sega CD, and all the Playstations. I have a sizable collection on each cd based console that saw release in the US beyond the ones mentioned. So here is the scoop. I by far have had the worst luck with Sega CD and Gamecube. The reality is if you buy a game that is 25 years old and doesn't suffer from disc rot, it will most likely last another 25 years. It's just important to be on the lookout, so you're not introducing damaged disc into your collection. I've been told the Dreamcast has significant issues with this, however, I've yet to see any problems with games I own. Then again beyond a quick look when I made this episode, most problems I've encountered are with games I've owned for decades.

[@Zatchham]

Eeeek! I'm so glad I came across this video as I've never truly heard data rot explained until now just browsing youtube. I'm guessing this happens to musical discs as well? At some point I'll take some time to go through the CDs I have and inspect them for disc rot. Don't know how I would react though if I found my favorite music or game disc experiencing disc rot...just the thought of a game I spent so many childhood hours on to get to 100 percent just rotting away memory is terrifying. :(

[@Jenovi]

It's unfortunate, but less common with new media. DVD's having issues are typically related to contamination during the pressing process. The one positive thing I can say is if you have media that is 20+ years old without rot, it should last another 50 + years with proper care. Thanks for checking out the video.

[@yusuk364]

Nice to hear AH Thunderstrike soundtrack :D

[@RevRaptor898]

Good info, luckily none of my disks have gone bad but I do have quite a few milky ps1 disks. They play fine though.

[@oculedo9137]

Wow, i wasn't expecting you to say Gamecube. If the metal gear disc rot is really this severe and widespread this should be posted on ebay, a lot of people are getting fucked.

[@Jenovi]

It really seems to be a game by game case when it comes to the Gamecube. Thanks to a friend, I have since received a clear copy of MGS. I still see copies of the game suffering from the effects of a bad pressing.

[@Jenovi]

At this point, it's just all luck. There is some data that indicates disc that doesn't see this issue in the first 25 years have a significantly lower chance of developing the problem over the next 25. Unfortunatly, there's really not much you can do.

[@Jenovi]

Resurfacing just removes scratches from the plastic protective layer. If that layer is the issue, problem solved. If not, then there's no workaround. BTW I want to make it clear that label damage is only an indicator of disc rot on CD's, not DVD's. However, flaking labels on GameCube disc almost always indicate an issue with the pressing process meaning disc rot is likely in the future.

[@Jenovi]

Label is the top of the disc where the print is. Disc Pressing is the act of creating a disc in the factory.

[@Tokaisho1]

You see it far less with PAL versions because the european game case has a good button press release system where theres less bending of the disc on removal from the case

[@TerraWare]

I just checked my copy of Metal Gear I picked up for a couple bucks a few weeks ago in case mint condition unaware of this rot stuff and thank god there were no holes of any kind on either disk. Time to check the rest. Fingers crossed.

[@GD-dy1cz]

that happened to my Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes copy. These "cracks" appeared on the label. what I did was finish removing the label and leave the disc with the shiny background layer. it continued to function perfectly today after 12 years of doing that to the disc.

[@Floppameen]

My silent hill 1 on the ps1 has these finger print sized, rot on both edges of the disc but it works fine, expect some parts have longer loading times. how long do you think it has?

[@markn1090]

I just checked my MGS discs and thankfully nothing. Do you have any experience with sega saturn discs? I am getting into expensive imports and now worried about this issue.

[@Jenovi]

I do. Honestly, most cd based disc are at higher risk for disc rot. Out of the 50 or so Saturn games I own, none have been affected whereas a have a handful of Sega CD games that are nonfunctional. The Saturn seems to be the best of the Sega made disc likely due to better pressing standards on old tech. On the other hand, the Dreamcast is notorious for having rot issues due to new tech and poor standards. Just take the typical precautions, and you should be fine.

[@rojonabb]

I've been worried about this for some time since all my gamecube and wii games seem just fine but I have definately seen a couple of this tiny pinholes in a lot of ps4 games even the ones I just bought and played like sekiro or the last of us part II so I'm starting to think it might be normal. Do you think this is something to worry about considering they all have been kept under the same conditions? BTW Greetings from Mexico

[@monsieurmike2072]

Awesome!

[@xmg5688]

Good vids dude!

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for checking it out. Thinking about making a part 2 that goes a bit more in depth.

[@sandmanthekiller2913]

Thank you so much

[@harukakigani106]

I've got two CDs that I spotted twenty years ago that had holes in data layer, the CDs still play however it also depended on the player for example the Sony boombox skipped all over the place but the TEAC system totally ignored the holes ...so the old Sony boombox got the boot. The holes are still the same place and haven't spread

[@karwankarwanko6603]

Bro a question, i have a mario kart double dash for the gamecube. I went to the professional disc repair resurface game store. They cleaned it professionally (disc resurfaced machine) twice, first time highest level and second time on a lower level. There are no scratches at all, the disc looks almost brand new, however, when i play it, it all works, except when you go from one level to the other level. Then i get the message on the screen to turn of the power button of my nintendo, i have the same issue with the wii and the gamecube while playing this game. Please what seems to be the problem? Should i go to let the disc to be repaired professionally again?

[@adultmoshifan87]

I have a HUGE game disc collection and although I haven't checked them yet (will do, just haven't had the time), I've yet to experience disc rot. I'm worried that some DVDs of mine could get it as I had them in a bag which I accidentally left near a boiler for a few weeks (this was before I even discovered the issue!) and I do have lots of games stored away in places. Also, many of my games I store in disc wallets, so I must get that rectified! One problem I have is space. I have a huge collection and it's been difficult finding the space to store it all in, explaining the disc wallets and most of the time happy to have the game even without the original packaging. I have had the odd DVD bronze most likely as a result of sunlight getting in through the windows. One worry I have with buying used CDs, I worry this the most with PlayStation games, is data having been scratched off the data layer due to bad handling of the disc. I see this a lot with Platinum games this worries me the most when even the original release is silver-topped, meaning that when I finally do get round to adding Die Hard Trilogy to my collection I may have to look for a sealed copy...

[@Jenovi]

+adultmoshifan87 it's a real concern, but if disc that are already 20 years old show no sign of rot, it's a fair to say they will last another 25-50 years. My advice is check these disc before you by. Any DVD having issue will more then likely follow that specific pressing as the ones showing rot are either due to a contaminated pressing or damage due to storage. Good luck to you, and thanks for stopping by.

[@adultmoshifan87]

Jenovi I always do check discs before buying, especially PlayStation games on which the labels are mostly foil. Because Jumping Flash!'s label is a large percentage foil, I was lucky to find that rental copies of this particular title each had a fully layered label. I was lucky to bag a copy in that form on ebay for £2.95! While my chances probably aren't that high that any near-fully-foil PlayStation games having data scratched-off, I am still especially cautious. I may have to buy sealed copies of Die Hard Trilogy, the first 2 WipeOuts and (god forbid, knowing how valuable it is) Digimon World!

[@torgogorgo1888]

I'm not sure about my MGS TS, will have to play it, looks like a couple spots where there may be something but no flaking or chipping or pinholes it didn't give me a problem when I tried it out and I see no flaking. Thought the research I've done shows you are correct, the cover art flaking is an issue with that game in particular, but it also seems it does not render it unplayable. I have a Suikoden 5 disc that seems to have some incredibly tiny ones, but the disc art seems to be fairly light on it generally. Just odd as I played it for 140ish hours over the summer and never had an issue. Same as I've seen it in a couple other ps2 games (NCAA 11, Test Drive EoD) with no issues as well. I can't see the pinholes in normal light, only with the iPhone flashlight pushed up to it. Also in PS4 games like NHL 17, which I put a couple hundred hours into with less freezing on average than previous years versions of the game with no defects.

[@Jenovi]

If the corrupted data is never requested, you may never experience an issue with the game. As far as MGS-TS goes, the top layer is only an art layer as the disc is a dvd. Some disc will still work. However, it's a strong indicator that the disc had issues during the pressing process and will at some point develop further problems. Thanks for watching!

[@Dongled]

Just wanted to address the MGS:TS thing. I did a bit of digging and apparently, even though it's "technically" disc rot with the tops of the disc cracking, it is well above the data layer so as long as the bottom of the disc is fine, it should play without issues. Apparently, this is an extremely common thing for this particular game as you mentioned and you're right that Gamecube...for whatever reason, seems to be plagued with these disc rotting issues. I just replaced a POP Sands of Time as it had some pretty bad disc rot. Its weird though...for MGS TS, the copy I have is the one I got at launch and held onto it all this time and aside from playing through it once when it came out, I never went back to it.

[@SalivatingSteve]

Not just disc rot, but if you buy a used game that may have been a rental in the past and the game store stupidly removes the stick-on label from the rental store, it will ruin the disc. This happened to me with my copy of Resident Evil 2 for the PlayStation. Luckily it’s a 2-disc game so my Claire disc is fine, but my Leon disc freezes when entering the room with the wounded police officer at the beginning of the game. I stupidly didn’t play the Leon disc right away, so I was well past the 90-day return policy and the game store didn’t have any other copies left anyway so I was screwed. I ended up just pirating the Dreamcast version and playing the Leon campaign that way...

[@Jenovi]

Sadly, that’s the only option you sometimes have.

[@danielsantana540]

I own k1 revenge for ps1 and it was a Hollywood video rental and works fine as well as Rambo 4 2008 it is a blockbuster rental in great condition. Rentals are sometimes In. Better shape than games discs or blu rays sold from.collectors

[@ZeusWeus]

For anyone here in the comments looking for solace, look, if you store your discs right, treat them well and look after them they will most likely outlive you ok? However, this guy raises a good point, always enjoy what you buy regardless of how long it lasts.

[@kensims4086]

Call a disc manufacturing company like i did. 4 companies told me they arent made to last longer than few years the chemicals inside break down. Thats why i buy records..my cd's started to rot so i gave up..

[@ZeusWeus]

@@kensims4086 There are a million things that aren't meant to last longer than a few years in this world that you can make last for decades with the right treatment, discs are one of them, also not sure what companies you have spoken to but that's not what the companies I emailed told me

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

All my PS Discs are in the cases they came in and the ones that don't share the case with one that has it. It doesn't look fancy, but as long ad the disc lives

[@poleon2003]

Some of my GameCube discs have the top artwork peeled of a bit (like Metroid Prime 2 Echoes and LEGO Star Wars 2.) but I can still play through them just fine so should I be worried about it?

[@LUNCHMONEY4numbers]

This explains a lot. I've always had horrible luck buying GameCube games. Just in the past 4 years, I think I'm at a whopping 50% success rate lol

[@miamiveterano564]

GameCube sucks woman🙇🏾‍♂️😂

[@NASIRUB1]

This is why I like to play emulators because I don't want to deal with this, I'll admit not every emulation of some consoles is perfect, but if you a small amount of space in your house or apartment, having all your games/consoles digitally on your PC is not a bad idea. Now excuse me as I have to go check my 10 CD/DVD based console/PC classic collection for disc rot. I must have over hundred game titles combined on multiple platform that I have to check, this is why I stopped collecting physical games and consoles, to much work to maintain them and service them.

[@85fabricio]

Hard drives only last 5 years and drm makes imposible for game preservation

[@inputfunny]

Did you find any with disc rot?

[@WestSide1207]

I don't like emulation, but don't care if others use it. However, I am definitely a big proponent of game backups on ROM or ISO files as a means of preserving these games. I actually use backups for most of my classic consoles, using flash carts for cartridge based consoles, and CD-R's for optical based ones. As these games get older and older, I prefer to keep them in pristine shape and have them stand the test of time.

[@KaosNova2]

I also noticed that Games like Super Smash Brothers Brawl become unplayable to the console sooner than others. Does it have to do with a different kind of disc?

[@IanThunderbolt]

Video made me check my copy of MGS Twin Snakes and yep, Disc 1 has obvious rot and I've barely even play it.

[@BigAlvideos101]

I have a copy of Tales of Symphonia Chronicles on PS3 that I bought brand new a couple of years ago, looks like it has 3 or 4 little specks on it that look like pin prick sized holes, but they aren't actually holes, as well as a section under the label that looks similar, but in a speckled look instead of one dot, though I can only see them if I hold the disc up to a light source. I'm a collector as well as a gamer, and disc rot something that I fear extremely badly, even though I've never dealt with it before! Since it's a Blu-ray disc, it has no scratches on it, and I haven't even played it yet since I've been so busy with other games, but I'm terrified nonetheless! Having anxiety about it doesn't help either! I REALLY hope it isn't disc rot, as I've heard that Tales of Symphia Chronicles is a rare game now (it wasn't when I bought it), which means that getting another copy if needed will be a massive pain in the rear end!

[@Jenovi]

The good news is with Bluray Disc, this is typically a sign of what I would refer to as label rot. For Gamecube disc, this is bad news because it's a good indicator there was an issue during the pressing that will lead to issues with the data itself. Most other DVDs and newer media have been subjected to better quality pressing standards that keep the data sandwiched between a bunch of protective layers meaning even if there is delamination of the label itself, the disc should still be ok as it's not necessarily an indicator of rot as is it is with a CD. The last major issue I'm aware of was with the pressing of HD-DVD's, Speaking on newer storage disc such ad 4k disc, there isn't a ton of info out there, but what there is looks promising for the longevity of Bluray disc and beyond. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to leave a comment. I hope this eases your worries a bit. -Jenovi

[@BigAlvideos101]

Can label rot turn into disc rot? Will the game play properly with label rot? Thanks for the reply- it has helped my anxiety quite a bit, especially because I take great care of my discs so it wouldn't make sense for disc rot to happen to me unless I bought the game defective to begin with! Luckily for me, I happen to have a copy of MGS: The Twin Snakes that has no signs of disc rot, probably because the game store I buy from takes care of their stuff as well!

[@Jenovi]

-Can label rot turn into disc rot? It depends on what kind of disc it is. CD's? Yes. Everything else? Not necessarily. On a CD the label and information layer are next to each other. All other discs separate this layer. If it's only label damage on say a Bluray disc you won't have any issues playing it. Of course you can also have rot without label damage.

[@BigAlvideos101]

Thanks for all of this information! It's really helping me out here! I just have on more question for you- I have another disc that's also a Blu-ray that happens to have a similar dot-like mark on it to the ones I mentioned before. It plays fine for the most part, but it does have one small section near the end of the game in which there's a small skip during that section. Now, it's not a huge concern, but I was just wondering if with that game, there's any way of telling if the skip was caused by disc rot, label rot, or something else! There's no scratches on it or anything, so that can be ruled out! I'd also like to know if there's any way of telling if the skip was not actually caused by the mark, but by something else entirely, which could be likely despite the fact that I've thoroughly examined that disc over the years! Since it looks just like the marks on the discs I mentioned before, I'm still a bit nervous about it, but because of your extremely helpful information, I'm a lot better off than I was when I made my original comment!

[@Jenovi]

Just to be clear, label rot doesn't affect data on any disc that isn't a CD. The only sure fire way to know is by ripping the disc to a computer or using a data verifying program. There is always a chance that the disc was damaged by other means or that the plastic protective layer is damaged. This wouldn't necessarily damage the date but it would make it hard for the laser to read.

[@cutecatsara123]

Another reason why emulation of older games are important

[@13Gangland]

Because your cheap?

[@johneygd]

For what i know is that cd’s can rot from uv sunlight and moisture or by a poor manufactor process. I got a burned music cd for 21 years by a few years back the sound is gonne sounding like noisy ,despite i,ve kept them in it’s cd case away from the sun, i heard that burned cd’s are more valnurble from disc rot then stamped cd’s, but again it depends on many factors mentioned earlier.

[@DarkusObscurius]

Gr8 video

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

I think this happened to my copy of GTAV. Suddenly, it stopped receiving certain controls and the map stopped working, and got worse with every retry. Later, it froze as the loading screen for the beggining of the game loaded. Now I have digital, but still. Weirdly enough, with THAT disc in especific, back when it still worked, the PS always had this high pitched beeping sound as it shut down, and only that game. None of my other games have anything like this Edit: Just torched my GTAV copy and it is full of pinholes

[@xapx]

Gamecube games are pressed onto DVD's if the top layer screenprint is coming off, it doesn't mean the data is being messed up, since there is a layer of plastic before the data.

[@Jenovi]

You are 100% accurate, it's just my personal experience with this one disc having a defective printed top + disc rot. I really think there was a issue pressing this disc, and it has led to a high failure rate as they seem to go hand in hand. Everyone will have different a experiences though, and mine might just be that of poor luck. I do know of a person or two who have this game with the bad top and no rot, and a handful more that have the bad top and a non working game. It's the only gamecube game I've run across that's like this. The other gamecube games I've had issue with only have the pin hole spots. I just tried a run though of Konami's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles only to have the game freeze in the end, the disc was bad and I couldn't go on.

[@ms.pirate]

@@Jenovi from what im hearing, are all the mgs GC games rotting unless their put in good condition? Or are there alot of defectives ones and some none rotting ones?

[@Old_SnakeTwitch]

So my twin snakes (maybe) has 1 smallest pinhole on each disk, where the gamcube logo is, one disk has the hole set inside the E of gamecube where light mostly passes through anyways, and the other disc has a similar maybe pinhole right beside the E.. Is this rot? Or normal?

[@yorgle11]

My most ridiculous experience with a dodgy CD was about 10 years ago when I was playing Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land on PS2. When that game had cutscenes, sometimes the game would "die". Not lock up, but it would just sit there not doing anything. I eventually figured out that I could eject the disc and reinsert it, then the game would make another attempt to load and it would continue working. There was also a couple music tracks that didn't play properly, but nothing game breaking. I enjoyed that game a lot and played through to the very end. As I walked into what was obviously the arena for the final battle, the game stopped to load a cutscene. It died as it had done in the past. This time, no amount of ejecting and reinserting the disc would make any difference. I could hear the drive trying the read the disc and always failing. I quit. Few days later I reloaded my game and got back to the same spot, same thing. I could not get that cutscene to load. Looking close at the disc I found that there were some pinholes. I presume it was physical damage, but maybe it was natural rot, I don't know. (That game is a CD, not a DVD) In order to play the final battle and actually finish the game, I had to buy another copy on eBay. It probably wasn't rational, but I really liked that game, and I didn't want to let a bad CD stop me from finishing it. The replacement worked perfectly. There was a downside though. On my replacement copy, I discovered a lost music track that had never played on my damaged one. That music track had vocal singing in it which I had never heard in that game before, and when it played I was wishing I knew where on the disc to scratch it out. :)

[@Jenovi]

I had the same issue with Spider-man on Sega CD. Not the song issue though, that's a funny story.

[@mageofjapanbackup]

I'll be honest I've not been big believer in disc rot not that mean that that "fantasy" but believe in that had more do with ppl mistreating there stuff But when you said never seen good copy Twin Snakes I grab my copy and... disc 2 had the cracks in the label (disc 1 is 100% fine tho) I have to ask do feel this something that only effected some the discs in prints or feel this problem all GC discs will have? What other games would you say this common with also?

[@craziestrufis]

what programming do i use to check my disk games for the damage?

[@JetWolfEX]

I can only find one game I own with disk rot... And it just happens to be Panzer dragoon saga Disc 3 has a tiny spot where light shines through like that, and disc 4 has them too, in the same spot, I did get it significantly cheaper. It plays just fine though, I've had no problems whatsoever. Ironically my copy of Twin snakes is pristine. Thanks for this video, it was informative, I didn't really know anything about disc rot, I guess I'll enjoy these while they still last.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks unfortunate. I agree, enjoy them while you can.

[@KingofStrawberries]

I'm not sure if it's the same for the PAL region, but my copy of Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes looks to be perfectly fine. And yes, I did double and triple check it after watching this video, I'm gonna have to do that for my entire collection now...

[@Jenovi]

+A.D Mitchel Lucky the PAL release seems to be ok. It’s the North American pressing that has the issue.

[@GabrielMartinez-pe6ln]

What software do you use to test the integrity of the discs?

[@crtgamer2355]

You forget the layer with the data pressed into the plastic, the foil is only there for the laser to read the data pressed in the plastic, this is how original cd's are pressed.

[@xtremegold2950]

just check yesterday a legit copy of sega saturn virtua cop rotting already 2 holes on disc getting bigger.. however the cd plays fine. but when the game is playing do hear some audio issues on the beginning of the stage

[@user-gk4jp6lt2b]

I’m getting a GameCube for Christmas so I’ll make sure to protect the games. Also I found a copy of Crazy Taxi on GCN at the Goodwill, and I think it sadly has disc rot. I shined a flashlight and I can see the label of it shine through the bottom.

[@Jenovi]

One thing I failed to mention on Dreamcast games, a flaking top means there was issues in the pressing and the data layer could be compromised over a long period. If you only see pinholes (dvd based disc only) if could be a bad print job.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce4081]

store them in the original case/ clean the case and if the game is second hand get it professionally cleaned as that will add a layer of basically polish protection, Dry cool environment, turn radiators of in that room if required, also dehumidifiers if really serious about air humidity levels. I think this is something to be concerned about but don't worry about it to much as everything has a half shelf life just be careful. I haven't come across this I checked out my Pal GameCube collection and haven't had disk rot. I don't knop to much about the manufacturing process but maybe It's something to look research into to find a correlation maybe all the disk rot more susceptible came from a specific factory / region something with how they made them. I have heard of a Sega CD from japan having it but again don't know the history of the game, maybe that's something we should be more aware of when buying old titles where did it come from I.E has the seller always had it, did they buy it from a gaming store so on.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for checking out the video. You bring up some very good points, thanks for sharing.

[@gcfreak898]

Wow that is crazy. I found my copy of Resident Evil 3 Nemesis has disc rot for my Ps1.

[@anonymoususer6774]

After I dropped cable went last year, I bought a cheap DVD player and revisited a bunch of my old DVDs. A ton of them do not work. They're clean and haven't been touched in years, just sitting on a shelf. Even DVDs I bought in the past year (Spiderverse, Aquaman) are starting to deteriorate. Crazy. Does disc rot affect cartridges too?

[@mvuanyeusi]

just checked my copy of animal crossing for the gamecube and sure enough it has the tiniest bit of disc rot :(

[@DevilDogMuNky]

After watching this video, I ran to check my MGS:TS discs! The 2n disc is so cracked on the label! I haven't played it in about 5 years, nor have I touched it since! Luckily that's the worst case of my CD's. Definitely time to back them all up, digitally. ='(

[@vjpearce]

Wow. I'm saving up for a caravan to live in and was going to take my games with me. Since it'll be like an oven in the summer, I might need to invest in some cool boxes to store my games in, when not being played. Not sure if that'll keep them safe or not. Also: Never store games in a sleeve system. I just had to replace 17 Wii and Wii U games recently due to warping. Luckily my Klonoa and Muchables came out safe. I was literally crossing my fingers testing those two.

[@miamiveterano564]

You're going to live in a van, and you seem proud of it🤔😂

[@vjpearce]

@@miamiveterano564 So? Have you seen the rent prices around the North Kent coast? I can't afford it. PS: I don't think of it as a van. It's a flat on wheels.

[@miamiveterano564]

@@vjpearce you are happy to live like a hermit, taking your tiny home with you everywhere ❓ What if someone steals it or you get into an accident❓ Valuables lost, destroyed or stolen. How long do you plan on living in a van. Is this temporary or permanent. Don't let these KZbin van dwellers fool you; they are living off big KZbin 💰.

[@vjpearce]

@@miamiveterano564 It's a static caravan on a Carvan site that I'm saving up for and I'm not following the KZbin "van dwellers trend." either.

[@jacobyne]

So far the only cases of disc rot I have experienced have been on Sega Consoles, Discs on Saturn and Dreamcast. I have yet to seen it on other consoles I own. Ironically I have a pal copy of twin snakes and it doesn't have any kind of disc rot. Maybe you should try getting one.

[@usavideogames7599]

Im thinking even the oils from our fingers and alcohol used to clean the tops or even damp paper towel or simple rubbing the top paper layer can cause pin holes that allow light to pass through ?

[@absoluteclownworld]

I've checked all my disc based games and the only discs with these pin holes are ps3 games. But thats just the label on top that has a pin hole. All my turbo cd games are mint. All my gamecube games are mint. Don't have twin snakes to check that issues out though. All games work. Only ever had issues with scratched discs from games I bought used and even that's pretty rare. I have been gaming for about 27 years and have around 450 disc based games.

[@vinnyfanneran3116]

Long time fan x x But... For pressed (commercial, mass market, prerecorded etc.) CDs, the data was stamped onto the polycarbonate. The aluminium layer was just to reflect the laser back. On recorded CDs, however, the data is indeed scribed by the laser onto the reflective layer.

[@Jenovi]

Interesting. So what’s degrading in those cds that stops them from working?

[@vinnyfanneran3116]

@@Jenovi The aluminium layer oxidises and no longer has the same reflective properties.

[@BenMelluish]

I know it's a DVD (HD-DVD??), but I have a copy of Mass Effect on Xbox 360 that has a fairly large 'pin hole' that appears when you shine a light through it. I only bought it for a £1 or something, so I wasn't too bothered. Just out of curiosity, I ripped it on my PC and the checksum matched perfectly with Redump.org, so it's not always a certainty that it's damaged if there's apparent holes in the label/data layer.

[@Jenovi]

Hey Ben. The bad news is almost all HD-DVDs have this issue. The good news is no games used the format, so that Mass Effect game is on a standard DVD. Unlike a standard CD, the data layer for a DVD is in the center of the disc and sandwiched between two protective plastic layers. So holding it up to the light will in most cases only show label damage. A CD, on the other hand has the label printed directly over the data layer, so damage to the top of the disc also means damage to the data. If the checksum checks out, you should be clear. The most important thing when seeing organic label damage on a dvd is to remember that it’s a good indicator of a poorly pressed disc. One that will almost certainly suffer from disc rot.

[@blacksunshine7485]

Got to stress also WHERE you keep your CDs and HOW. Damp areas of rooms or places of condensation are a no no. Also perhaps investing in some protective casing.

[@UrielX1212]

I treat my CDs like any other physical media like Vinyl records. Cool, dry and away from a UV light source.

[@tjnickles4782]

one last thing I just want to say my dvd also had some scratches but I know for a fact the scratches isn't the cause of the disc skipping I believe the disc may start to get corrupted or I could be wrong

[@GameRelated]

@jenovi Can you please explain why it is bad to store your games in a CD wallet Sleeve??

[@usavideogames7599]

Hi thanks im a subscriber. When you hold up a disc to the light and see about 1, 2 or 3 tiny see through pin hole size spots that allow the light to pass through the top paper artwork layer, will the game pretty much still be ok to play just fine ? How many tiny pin hole size see through specs might be ok ? 1, 2, 3, etc. ? Thanks. Anybody knowledgeable please reply soon.

[@UrielX1212]

Pin holes are normal on older disc. More of a manufacturing issue. Audio CDs usually don`t care as the data correction can make up for the missing data. CDs that use it for data is a different story. Real "disc rot" is oxidiation/bronzing of the reflective layer and is relateively rare. PDO had a bad run of CDs in I think the 90s that were insufficiently sealed causing oxidation of the reflective layer. The weak spot on a CD is the top surface and any damage there and you are right into the reflective layer.

[@XanCrews]

Holy shit! I just looked at my copy of Twin Snakes I've had since it came out. Disc 1, yep. It's got some rot.

[@jonathanrivera8585]

Is just that they used cheap paint for the label. Most people are mistaking both things.

[@Rickenbacker451]

It was a little shocking that one of the more expensive used Gamecube title ist prone to this. :( Bought MGS TTS a few months ago guess I have to check it now. ;)

[@ca_lcium]

I have an old copy of Sonic Adventure DX that slowly stopped working correctly. I still have it for sentimental reasons but I never figured out what happened to it before, but now I know it's been rotting away for years now. Good grief

[@datboi4911]

What programs do you thi k i could use to check for disc rot? I just bought a copy of xenoblade chronicles for wii and it looks good, but therr are a few pinholes and i dont know if their dosc rot or not sadly...that and i got a bunch of older games for my collection i worry about

[@datboi4911]

Also the pin holes are only visible when i use my light under them

[@Jenovi]

Most likely it's just the label and not disc rot. It's rather uncommon with newer and non CD based games.

[@datboi4911]

@@Jenovi sorry for a late reply im.truly sorry! And yes it turned out it was a slight mark in the label! And would you mind telling me the software you used to check the disc for disc rot? That would be amazing! Also would you suggest for a starting collector to start collecting gamecube games?

[@Scorpionbe]

I have the metal gear solid game from day one and it is still like new. It happens to me ones with a dreamcast game.

[@SnipeMD]

I always thought that the twin snakes was just discolored to signify the diffrence between disk 1 and disk 2.

[@VCR_Repairman]

Snake: Naomi, was I infected with the Disk Rot virus!? Naomi: The important thing is to live Snake, just live.....

[@dafoerder]

Would vacuum sealing them for storage work?

[@SodaGumX]

never seen this happen to my disc and my metal gear twin snakes is just fine and i bought it new years ago.

[@repussified]

I have a copy of Lunar: Eternal Blue (Sega CD) that I've ran on a Model 2 Sega CD and a PC w/ Kega Fusion and in an area near the end of the game, it takes a long time to load and the graphics are extremely glitched but it could be finished last time I played it. It never hit me to look for disc rot.

[@angeldelacruz3351]

Wow I never knew this

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for stopping by. Glad to share some knowledge.

[@mrratchet]

Is there a way I can show someone a picture of my GC game? I see two tiny specs but I'm unsure if it's disc rot. Pretty frustrating since I'm from a PAL region but only buy NTSC games, making this an even more expensive endeavour.

[@timgonzalez1108]

This happened to my Street Fighter 3 Third Strike for the Dreamcast.

[@Jenovi]

I hear those GD Roms are problematic.

[@theoffspring07]

I checked my twin snakes discs and they still look good.

[@Jenovi]

Sweet! I finally found a good set myself.

[@zeromancer-x]

I suspect that this happened to my first copy of KOTOR 2 for the PC. When I tried to reinstall the game several years later, disc 3 would repeatedly fail. It had been out of the case only once or twice.

[@Jenovi]

Always a disappointment to find disc have rotten away.

[@Spicypuff]

i have some ps3 game that have pricks on them like AC black flag but its nostly seems to just be the image on the top of the disc. Will it still afffect my game?

[@Jenovi]

The data layer on a PS3 disc is near the center. You have nothing to worry about here.

[@turokrambo5617]

This is why i Emulate retro games. Because atleast i got them on my computer digital saved to preserve my childhood. Sucks that Drives do rot over time too. But i can transfer from one to another when the time comes to move it.

[@jonmcfarland1209]

Does anyone make a product thay would prevent disc rot, like a spray? I got all the Zelda games and Hotel mario for my Philip's CDI I would like to keep in good shape.

[@esk8jaimes]

What's the name of that intro song, who's it by?

[@Jenovi]

That's a song I did for the show. Both the intro and outro were originals.

[@EpicEmberOriginal]

Just checked my copy of Street Racer for the Sega Saturn. It has disc rot, although part of it looks like it’s scratched, like it’s a thin wavy line but it’s not the label or the plastic, it’s definitely the aluminium (although it is just Street Racer on the Saturn. Should probably check some of the games I actually care about)

[@Jenovi]

I have a JP copy of Street Racer, can't remember a thing about it.

[@EpicEmberOriginal]

@@Jenovi it’s basically a poor Super Mario Kart clone, 2D sprites and all