Discovering Xinzuo 2023 Collection - Unfiltered First Impressions

[@chefpanko]

In the video above, I've provided unfiltered reactions to the Xinzuo 2023 collection. Closed captions (CC) have been added for your convenience. While recording, I sometimes looked for the right words, especially when changing Dutch to English, my main language. You might hear me say 'um,' 'oh,' 'yeah,' and 'so' a lot. I'm trying to improve this for future videos when I plan to do live commentary.

[@drrayeye]

I've had this unfiltered experience with the Zhen series 4 times already--with similar positive reactions. My expectations for them are now no different from my expectations for quality production knives from Japan. I'm not surprised by the excellent f&f, feel, and performance out of the box.

[@noname-ly6pl]

That first ZDP knife looks amazing

[@chefpanko]

I was very surprised! reviewing so many Chinese-made knives this is the first time I have seen a manufacturer adding this type of grind and thinness to its knife.

[@Man_Ray78]

I have a Automatic OTF pocket knife from a Chinese company called Maxace and it's the sharpest knife in my collection. China has been, in my opinion, outclassing most other competitors in manufacturing pocket knifes in most of the categories because you can get a lot more for the money. I came here, looking for somebody talk about the Xinzuo 4.3 inch small Pring Knife in ZDP 189 but I'll look at other videos for it.

[@chefpanko]

There are still a lot of bad Chinese made knives (most resold as fake Japanese knives), but those that do shine is doing great and above my expectations. They are really starting to show what they can deliver if they focus on quality and care about branding! One thing to note is that the prices has gone up, compared to the golden nuggets you could find few years back. (but speaking to the co-founders directly and in person made me realize why they had to increase the prices once they have established the brand name as an OEM). As a consumer perspective it is unfortunate but as a brand perspective it is reasonable and understandable. Finding the golden nuggets will be harder compared to years back when I started the channel.

[@Man_Ray78]

@@chefpanko Yes, sure. The Replica economy is the worst. I just remember when anything from China lost in comparison because of that. I'm just pleased with many of my recent buys of well made Original models from China, that in comparison, are better than others in the same price range.

[@gregmccormack5709]

The zdp knife looks impressive both in finish and geometry. Like others have said if its real zdp with a good heat treat that's a winner.

[@chefpanko]

I did a full Q&A with the co-founder link in the description. But long story short the minimum Rockwell you can expect is 65 and not under. The Heat treatment and the bonding of the cladding have been carried out by 2 Japanese companies. Steel and heat treatment Hatta Koygo Co. LTD Bonding of the cladding is done by Sanyo Riki Co. LTD The grind shape and form and handle etc are carried out by Xinzuo.

[@gregmccormack5709]

@@chefpanko Noice!!! thank you for the reply👍🏻

[@ouroboros_on_the_orange]

I got a Lan seres composite steel chef knife few weeks ago, after watching your review of on their knives. Blade looks beautiful and finish is fantastic even thoe series I bought is cheapest entry model. So far it cuts well, will see how long it will retain its edge and how it will behave after it's sharpened. If it holds well I will definitely buy a whole set of upper series. Thank you for objective review. Edit I am a professional cook and will use it as a main driver to test it durability.

[@chefpanko]

I'm wondering what you think of that handle. I have a large hand size and I find that the handle is not something for me the pronounced belly did not fit well for me so very curious about your opinion and what hand size you have (in terms of general glove sizes). When I worked at the restaurant I was the only person that needed a large glove size the rest uses the medium. Not sure if the handle changes in size depending on the knife style but for the Santoku I let some others try the knife those with medium and small hand sizes found the handle on the big side.

[@ouroboros_on_the_orange]

@@chefpanko I use L/XL gloves depending of manufacture. I find the handle comfortable even with 2-3h non stop prep, while using the pinch grip. I didn't have the issues like you had in review, but also Lan S. handle is more smooth and unified, shape is...."less aggressive" than models you have been reviewing in this video. Only thing I noticed but this might just be me. The heel of the blade has well designed round notch for middle finger when pinch griping, very comfortable and natural placement,but after 1-2h it starts....finger wants to move away from it. It probably isn't the knife designed just my muscles motoric.

[@chefpanko]

@@ouroboros_on_the_orange In the end I tend to balance the knife on my middle finger, touching the choil and under the bolster. With my pinch grip more forward so the balance point sits on my middle finger. That was for me the most comfortable and where the belly wasn't noticeable. What I did notice is that for a Santoku, the knife was quite big and hefty. If you think about a Santoku it is one of the most recommended knives for home use, but the Santoku Lan series went in the opposite direction. It is heavier (but the blade is also taller), and the handle is quite on the bigger side compared to the Japanese Santoku which is more catered to small to medium-hand sizes (mostly catered to Asians in terms of hand sizing). So that is something I did ask Xinzuo about if they plan to release newer series with handles that are more catered to small hand sizes and also stay in line with the style of knife. They are building on a diverse catalog, so currently those with a small hand size I recommend their classic series (normal/standard designs less daring or less aggressive). But very interesting to hear about your experience with it! Thank you for sharing I really appreciate it :)

[@KeenanBoss]

Welcome back chef.

[@chefpanko]

Thank you, wasn't sure if I should release the unfiltered first impression video due to my English but decided to upload it as it shows the knives as is. And if there are any things I find strange or could be improved would be addressed directly. In the full review I will be going in deeper detail wich concludes my final valuation as this is literally just a valuation from unboxing the knife.

[@KeenanBoss]

@@chefpanko yes chef.

[@hendosergio]

I love xinzuo knives and hezhen, i have 25 cooking knives including nakiri, chef knife, santoku, utility knife, bunka srs13 knife and m390 chef knife of hezhen maker

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for sharing your experience, what do you think about the M390 Chef knife? That is one of the knives I have not tested but that handle looks interesting (which is also one of the the things I want to judge on but can't judge on without actually holding it).

[@hendosergio]

@@chefpanko hezhen m390 knife its very light, the handle is ovalated, very ergonomic and beautifull, details in titanium blue, silver s925 and ruby artificial, the edge retention is similar to zdp189 or hap40 but the handle is most diferent caracteristic

[@chefpanko]

@@hendosergio very interesting Thank you for sharing your experience with me, I wasn't sure about the handle due to the spiral form in terms of comfort judging from the pictures which is my main concern but it seems like you have no problem with it which is a good sign.

[@hendosergio]

@@chefpanko yes is premium material and apropiate to longer journal

[@kishankaje]

Next you should check out Nanfang brother series. I bought 2 of their knives, I liked YanXuan series. Highly recommend it

[@chefpanko]

Will see what I can do but I can't promise anything as my review spots have been getting booked for the entire year up to Q1 next year. I think I have heard of them before (or are already on my to-watch list) but I just don't have the time to add much more to the list. Thank you for the suggestion tho! Appreciate it :)

[@rexseven93]

I've talked up Xinzuo and Hezhen knives for a few years now. I have quite a few and really like them, especially the Hezhen Classic series. I have the Hezhen version of the F2 Nakiri in this video, but the Chef's Knife version. I have the same impressions. Sharp edges and really light (like you said). I like the handle fine, but not as well as the classic handles. It is also one of the least sharp cutting edge of the knives I've gotten from them. I was disappointed from a price point and it doesn't get used much, but it looks wonderful.

[@chefpanko]

By the Hezhen version, you meant the Coreless version? If so I have the video scheduled for next week with my first impressions about the Hezhen 2023 collection if it is the coreless version then it should be the same knife as yours.

[@rexseven6907]

It is the corelss version. I looked at your website after my comment. Same as you are going to test. Beautiful knife. Not one I use much though.

[@chefpanko]

​@@rexseven6907 Aah yeah the handle is similar to the F2 Nakiri, I even think it was a bit sharper or it is just the shape of the handle. I do find the traditional octagonal-shaped handle better compared to this one. But it is a daring design and something new which is refreshing to see. I do think they can improve it a bit more so it is more comfortable. But similar points as the F2 Nakiri.

[@douglastong5020]

Thank you chef panko for your content, bought the 440c chef knife based on your recommendation and certainly it's an excellent performer for its price category. Also I'm hoping to see if the zhen's wa handles from xinzuo are replaceable? Looking forward to check out the individual reviews of the knives especially some cutting actions.

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for the comment :) You can add a custom handle, but most of them are glue fixed so the current handle will be destroyed unless you can figure out a way to loosen the glue (which depends on what kind of glue they have used). It is not like the Traditional way where they burned the handle so not as easy to replace as the traditional Wa-handles.

[@luisytacc]

I imagine the acid etching process wore away at the outer cladding enough that the spine feels a little sharp on the Nakiri, even though they rounded it beforehand. As long as it's solved with a little bit of sandpaper, whatever.

[@chefpanko]

it is easily resolved with sandpaper, but if that is the case it would be better to change the order by doing the acid bath first and then round the spine. But that can indeed be the possible reason. . I will send them my suggestions and who knows they might address it with newer batches.

[@WongmanX2]

The blades look amazing!

[@chefpanko]

They indeed look good, hopefully they can continue in improving new series.

[@FishingWithWilso]

Love your videos, did you buy the hezhen 8.3 inch 14cr14Movnb chef knife with the g10 handle? I just ordered one cant wait to test it.

[@chefpanko]

The Hezhen version's first impression video is scheduled to be uploaded next week. It is just a first impression video so the final conclusion will be in the full review.

[@FishingWithWilso]

@@chefpanko Thank you looking forward to it, keep up the great work. 😁

[@cyzam]

have you reviewed Xinzuo santoku before? can't find the video. would love to see it.

[@chefpanko]

I have fully tested the knife both Lan Series with Chinese VG10 and the Powdered version will be in one review. I expect them to be uploaded next week. Both knives are very similar in design with some subtle but noticeable changes besides the aesthetic. The handle on both is something I needed more time to get adjusted to from I'm not sure if I like it, to it is alright. (I have a large hand size but many that I have given the knife with small to medium hand size find the handle a tad too big and for a Santoku-styled knife also heavy compared to the Japanese-made ones). More details will be reviewed soon in the video that is planned to be uploaded next week.

[@cyzam]

@@chefpanko wow thanks for reply! yes the handle does look massive for smaller hands. i'll wait for review before purchase =) can i ask what's your opinion on sharpening rods? are they waste of time?

[@chefpanko]

@@cyzam Sharpening rods are a good tool to bring back the edge when you don't have time to plan a maintenance session. I prefer ceramic ones, that being said it is also a good indicator that you eventually need to plan a maintenance session on a stone when you use the sharpening rod a few times. They are just convenient especially when you are already preparing food and feel it is a bit less sharp run it over the rod and continue with your prep. And also a good indicator that after a few times on a ceramic rod start and plan a whetstone maintenance session. The convenience factor matters, versus getting a stone out soaking or splashing it, cleaning the area and stone, letting the whetstone dry before storing, etc. Sure if you maintain the edge timely on a whetstone the sharpening process itself should not take longer than a few minutes (depending on the state of the cutting edge), soaking whetstones need pre-soaking of 10 ish minutes splash and go is just a few minutes but you also need to let it completely dry before storing. So convenience factor a ceramic rod is a great option to have but a whetstone is eventually needed sooner or later (Also ceramic rods are splash and go so you can use it dry or wet for a different result). While many home knife enthusiasts and non-professional users say that a strop works great for them (after each use they strop the knife) a whetstone is still needed at some point. But since I review the knife I always maintain the edge on a whetstone to get a good feel of how the steel feels on a whetstone for the final review. A convenience factor is what matters the most for me, so I find it a hassle, after my prep and washing the blade I need to grab the strop to strop the blade. So I find stropping after a maintenance session better as you have already set your mind on maintaining rather than doing it every time you use the knife.

[@generaldistrust]

your videos are popcorn \ beer&snack worthy

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for the amazing comment!! 🥰

[@bigmikeg84]

I'm liking the Zhen Series, the blade shape and finish with that handle looks great. If they managed to do a proper heat treat with that ZDP189 steel, it would make that knife a huge bargain at the current listed price of $239!

[@chefpanko]

The lowest I have seen was $230 during a special sales day not sure what special sales day it was but it was very close to when the Amazon Prime deals were active. So I think the special AliExpress 11.11 sales day the price should be one of the lowest. As for heat treatment, they are good and as advertised, I also asked the Co-Founder of Xinzuo some questions the Q&A can be found on my website. But I was told that the heat treatment from the ZDP189 Zhen series is done by Hatta Koygo Co. LTD. which also supplied the ZDP189 steel (A Japanese company and subsidiary of Hitachi Metals) and the bonding/lamination part of the cladding is carried out by Sanyo Riki Co. LTD (Also a Japanese company). The grind, shaping, forming, etc are done by Xinzuo and one of the reasons the price of this Zhen series is pricier than the other series they have. So hopefully we can see more grind like this with their own steel types like the 14Cr Powdered steel.

[@jiahaotan696]

@@chefpanko If the only thing Xinzuo did to the billet was steel removal to form a knife, I'd trust them more and be more willing to purchase a knife from them. Not sure if they need to bang it out (and therefore redo heat treatment afterwards). Also if the steel is directly imported from Japan, why is the HRC variance from 65-67? That's a huge difference in hardness when even 0.5 points in HRC can matter. All their knives are advertised as +/- 2HRC which makes me extremely sceptical of purchasing something of quality.

[@chefpanko]

​@@jiahaotan696 There are several reasons for that and that has to do with the company that carried out the steel heat-treatment. As they are done on a larger scale and per batch the steel structure can change slightly per batch and how the steel was stored in the first place. Due to modernized vacuum heat treatment, they can minimize the variances. But the laboratories spec sheet will give you what can be expected from what you get back from the company that did the heat treatment. Per pallet they get back they have a spec sheet that is done due to sample testing of 1 from that specific pallet where Xinzuo can also conduct their test to see if it is as the steel manufacturer has promised it to be. Some brands decided to advertise with the minimum specs without adding any variances but in reality, the knife may be 2 or even 4 Rockwell higher than advertised. As I have spoken to some Japanese knife import stores, and they told me that it depends on the brand and manufacturer if they add a spec sheet slip to the knives they have sent over. However, it all depends on the third-party agency that does all the communication between them and the manufacturer of the brand. They even had batches from a brand that way exceeded in Rockwell than their advertised 60 on the spec sheet and got it confirmed that they indeed did something different but want them to keep advertising the minimal one as they could not promise consistency yet. Also, many larger-scale manufacturers have to get the raw steel without heat treatment as it becomes harder and harder to punch out the shape, and laser cutting tools or water jets are needed. So after punching the knife shape out or CAD-designed laser cutting template or waterjet template. They send the shapes to the steel manufacturers for heat treatment. Once they got the knives back from steel manufacturers that did the heat treatment they bolster welding the handle part onto the blade. So there are a lot of steps and not always done in the same order. So the spec sheet Xinzuo got from Hatta Koygo Co. LTD is 65~ which is the promised minimum range that they keep the knives at. So if Xinzuo conducts a sample test from the knives they got back they get a spec sheet from them but under their own test, the knives must be 65+ not and under 65 as agreed per contract. Each batch gets the spec sheet of one sample test with the date of the test. This is just a fraction of what is done per knife as most steel is rolled at the Manufacturing side and then cut per sheet and put on pallets before shipping to the manufacturer that ordered the raw steel material. This also causes some warping and the blades must be straightened out (depending on what cut you get from the steel manufacturer and how much it has been flattened due to the weight on the pallet, which usually the first few sheets need extra attention). I had an interesting insight that went deeper than I expected (I was asked to keep certain things for myself in the end as they did not want it to be published to the public ie; easier for competing manufacturers to copy).

[@jiahaotan696]

@@chefpanko Nice, really cool. HRC 65 is not an issue but if you pay a certain price for ZDP-189 you will come to expect certain standards as befitting ZDP-189 and comparing to other knives of the same steel, from the Japanese counterparts. I'd be really happy if they manage to decrease the HRC variance because it shows better quality control. I'm also thinking what your role in all these could be. Will you go down the KZbinr route and stamp your name on knives to sell to people in the West in a collaboration with Xinzuo? lol

[@chefpanko]

​@@jiahaotan696 hahaha no I will remain neutral otherwise my entire channel is for nothing as it is currently highly based on knife reviews so I must remain neutral. If you also watched my other impressions about the other knives there are some minor improvements that Xinzuo needs to implement on those. If I ever go on the route of selling my own branded knife I must become an actual webshop that not only sells my own branded knives but every manufacturer that I reviewed and liked must be on that store too. So basically a webshop with only brands and knives that I have tested and liked.

[@Cid_1]

Curious to see the review on the ZDP 189 knife, looks great. If the performance is there. I'm gonna pick one up

[@louis2p]

I think it's really nice that for once they don't try to fake beeing japanese. It shows they are proud of their product, that honestly look really good. Maybe a bit expensive for chinese made.

[@chefpanko]

I think that they eventually have to increase the prices if they want to keep improving besides the ''Chinese made'' stigma. But only time will tell how far they can keep going, I hope they grow as they have been honest from the start as to where they are made and so far they have been very responsive to my improvement suggestions and ideas. Many of them will see my suggestions being implemented in the newer collection of 2024 (it will be more in line with Japanese-made knives making them lighter and thinner than most of their current collection).

[@louis2p]

@@chefpanko I agree that "Chinese made"' is a bit of a stigma, it doesn't mean it's not well made, however the spine beeing sharp for instance really doesn't help. It's minor details but at this price you have to get everything right. I would love to see them make a Chinese cleaver, a good one, from a Chinese company.

[@chefpanko]

@@louis2p I agree if they want to sell it at that price or increase it they have to get the details right and go beyond that. I have given my feedback they said they will work on it in a newer series. Some exciting things are coming soon (2024), along with Aogami #2 (Blue #2) steel in a Chinese-made knife. More ZDP 189 series, M390 series along with the exciting Aogami/Blue #2. Hopefully, they have implemented most if not all suggestions on the new series but in terms of steel it will be the first time I see a Chinese manufacturer using a Japanese Aogami #2. No idea how they managed to get a contract with the steel manufacturer but I know they had to collaborate with sister companies in Japan for the ZDP-189 steel, for the bonding/lamination and heat treatment process. (Those restrictions make the price higher than letting it be heat treated or bonded in China). I think they are releasing at least 5 new series in 2024 (have not seen it as I recently came back from a vacation so currently going through the backlogs of emails and more).

[@dimmacommunication]

Hey panko, did you research more about SRS-13 steel ?

[@chefpanko]

Yeah, I like the SRS13 steel, very similar to SG2/R2 steel but I only have tried the Xinzuo SRS13 so I have no idea how others are that use the same steel.

[@jiahaotan696]

Powdered metal, should behave similarly to R2/SG2 as Chef said.

[@tagontag]

Long time no see! I bought the powdered version of the Lan Series as well haha. How did you find it?

[@chefpanko]

I like the core material it is similar to SG2/R2. I like the things they have added to the Santoku-styled blade. It is taller than your typical Santoku, with a rounded heel to prevent accidents (while the normal heel does not mind me it is a good afterthought that they have thought about it). So it seems like they have taken general feedback and implemented it in the blade. A taller blade in general will make the knife also heavier. Other than that I find that the handle is just not for me. It was not bad by all means I could not adjust to the shape, and after letting the knife be tested by multiple people most of them found the knife handle on the bigger side for their hand-size (small to medium). Those with large hand sizes were mixed on it like me, and those with L to XL were in general more positive and liked the handle. That being said I find it an interesting choice, for a Santoku-styled knife as that is usually used by housewives. I also had a few emails asking about the Lan Series Santoku as they wanted to buy it as a gift for their gf/wife. But as said above the handle is a bit big for them, so I also asked Xinzuo about their take on the handle sizes. (They will release a series to cater to those with smaller hand sizes). As it seems like right now they are releasing 3/5 new series each year so there is a lot to choose from. So as of right now those with smaller hand sizes I can recommend the Xinzuo classic series (I think those were called Yu series), which was one of the first series that they released. So I hope to see more from them soon in terms of their growing collection that will suit a certain group of people. But as they slowly grow bigger and expand, I can imagine that they will pull out on AliExpress or increase prices. QC as expected, after testing multiple series I have an idea of what they are capable of as a manufacturer. If they keep improving with each newer series I think they can easily increase the prices of what they offer. I have given them my initial thoughts and improvement suggestions, and it seems like they will share them with the design team.

[@tagontag]

@@chefpanko Thank you for your detailed reply! Yes, I find the same issue with handle, but the finish was awesome and I can live with it, as home cooks like myself rarely chop and slice food for long hours. I find the quality amazing, and you are right that Xinzuo had since improved from the past series. Since your introduction to ZDP-189 steel series, I had been reading up about the steel as compared to SG2. Did you find the ZDP-189 weaker in terms of corrosion resistance?

[@chefpanko]

@@tagontag yeah the finish was great and as expected from Xinzuo. If there are any improvements that I think would benefit the end product I will definitely share them with them and try to push them in improving more in future releases and hopefully, current releases can see some improvements. As for the ZDP-189, there are a few things I like about it but not because of the steel but because of the attention to detail. It is the first knife that reached the enthusiast level in terms of blade grind just like in the first impression video those reactions were all real-time and only out of the box so I did not try the knives at all. So in terms of the grind and attention to detail, they thinned the knife to make sharpening easier (not sure if they intended it like that but it benefits from the grind). Other than that the finish on the blade itself is comparable to the Japanese grind from brands or artisans. As said in the video it is the first time for me to see a Chinese manufacturer's knife nearing or already is at the quality of artisan Japanese knives. From all the knives I have tested that were made in China, they all played it save and added an acceptable grind with no errors but many knife enthusiasts want to see a more aggressive or thinner blade grind/profile taper. Wich they have improves in some series slightly but the ZDP-189 from Xinzuo is the first one that really got my attention in terms of grind something I thought that they (Chinese manufacturers in general) were not capable of doing. But after seeing that knife they (Xinzuo) proved that they can do it! Hence why I said that from now on Xinzuo needs to follow the principles of their own created knife the ZDP-189 ie; the new standard. Now the steel itself is quite complex despite the internet saying it is semi-stainless. I did not find any major problems as nothing occurred during my testing including leaving it wet for some time. I no longer work in a restaurant so I can't test them in a restaurant scenario at certain serving stations where the knife will be in a wet condition for over 8 hours. So normal home usage I did not notice anything. The following theory can be the reason why I did not find any difference in corrosion resistance in a home kitchen use. The cladding will protect the majority of the knife, and the mirror-like finish will act as a protective barrier between water and steel. The other thing is the ZDP-189 as steel requires more time and experience to get sharpened with a whetstone, so the thin blade profile grind helps in this aspect, if the knife was thicker it would be even harder. That being said the harder core or steel structure, is harder to sharpen as you need more time and some expertise. And with the thin grind, it no longer caters to the average home cook, so I will say it is not a beginner-friendly knife. Which is what sets this particular series apart from all the others.

[@chefpanko]

@@tagontag out of context but did you change your name? wasn't it Vic or am I going insane? Have seen more regulars in the comment with the name changed recently so not sure if KZbin is freaking out or I'm getting crazy.

[@tagontag]

@@chefpanko thanks for the reply on the steel and the knife profile! I definitely learned from your sharing! Ah, you are not insane, but recent changes in KZbin had meant that I must set a new handle name for my account as the past was erased. Hence, I just set a random one that came to mind hahaha.

[@orlandolzr]

I need to buy that knife you praised and the chinese chef knife ❤

[@chefpanko]

You need to see if you can catch a discount on it like on the 11.11 sales day on Ali. The lowest I have seen them is around $230 US. But it was indeed a surprise as you can see from the video and unexpected as I have not seen any Chinese brand/manufacturer knife nearing that grind/thinness.

[@guyharrison909]

How was out of the box sharpness on any and all of these?

[@rexseven6907]

I have many, more than 10, Xinzuo and Hezhen knives. All have been very sharp out of the box except one. It was acceptable but not impressive like the others. Ironically, it was the most expensive one.

[@guyharrison909]

Yeah ok good, maybe this aspect of the knife doesn't matter hugely. But it is nice to get a wicked sharp knife when brand new. I like to sharpen knives and some traditional Japanese knives are delivered fairly blunt ( because they expect that you will put an edge on them to your taste) but most buyers expect a light Saber.

[@chefpanko]

I have the same experience, most of them are sharp out of the box and usually are in line with each other in terms of sharpness. What I find more important is that the initial sharpening is consistent throughout. As this helps beginner sharpeners to set a baseline that they can follow (experienced sharpeners would like to add their own angle and finish). Most knives are meeting the sharpness standards with just one pass on the stone. This allows for minimal errors if the person doing it is experienced. However, there will always be a variation in the sharpened angle with an error of around 2 degrees for the experienced sharpener. Since it is all hand-sharpened but with a rolling water stone wheel to minimize errors.

[@JacquesRenaitre]

What is your favorite Chinese "Cleaver"?

[@chefpanko]

CCK Vegetable Slicer - KF1912 with the old stamped logo/address vs the new laser-printed name and QR code. I will be visiting HK in December this year and will see if I will film the store. The last time I was in HK and in that store it was very crowded and not a lot of space to walk around. I will try to score a CCK carbon knife if they have one with the old logo design. I just hate that they went to a lasered version to me personally it takes away the nostalgic charm away from that brand. Good second I will probably say the Shibazi F208. Do I recommend the CCK? The prices have been going way too high compared to when I bought here in Europe. So if you are in HK I heard they are still around $450/500HKD for the smaller versions. That still does not take away that I absolutely hate the new laser-printed logo. (sorry for my rant, I'm happy that I still got the older versions but if I can make an impact on them, by changing it back to the old logo, I will gladly voice my opinion on it!) Also, they have been trying to sell the same knife I got around 60/65 euros when I got them for 130 euros here in the Netherlands. I mean I understand inflation but that is like what a 100% increase in price so while I do love the knife I currently have I don't support a 100% price increase and lasered logo with a silly QR code.

[@JacquesRenaitre]

@@chefpanko QR codes are horrible and dystopian.

[@JacquesRenaitre]

@@chefpanko What about all-purpose cleaver?

[@chefpanko]

@@JacquesRenaitre Also the CCK KF1902. (Also wooden handle I prefer wood for added grip). A good second but if you look at the price it should be an easily recommended one the Leung Tim Chopper Factory one. However, Leung Tim is not sold widely mostly in Australia, Hong Kong, and some Asian supermarkets here in the Netherlands. But heard that everywhere else they could not find them. As it is also not really sold online.

[@JacquesRenaitre]

@@chefpanko I am in Europe.

[@JacquesRenaitre]

Please test K Sabatier of Thiers, France.

[@prototype43608]

Are the xinzuo damascus knives a kind of fake damascus? They are too cheap to believe that it's real damascus. Or are they only made by big machines without any hand forging?

[@chefpanko]

The Xinzuo knives are real Damascus (layered steel on top). They use Damascus billets that they order from steel manufacturers. Most of their knives are mass-produced and hand-finished. Some other collections may use other methods as they keep trying new things or methods. A full interview with the co-founder of Xinzuo/Hezhen can be found on my website (will put the link in a separate comment as YT tends to delete links). Note: The Q&A has some redacted sections for obvious reasons (competition and contracts involved with partners). PS: Prices might go up as most of those brands are keeping the selling price low to break through the market as a brand once they have established a brand they will increase the prices.

[@chefpanko]

Here is the Q&A with the Co-founder of Xinzuo and their sub-brand Hezhen see link: www.chefpanko.com/unveiling-innovation-in-chinese-knife-manufacturing/

[@cylltndn7935]

Why are they so expensive on Ali express?

[@chefpanko]

No idea, the Japanese steel ones are imported so they are pricier than the 10Cr, and 14Cr versions which are the Chinese steel versions. Other than that the aesthetic and finish on certain knives will increase the prices like with the acid bath treated version or coreless knife wich is based on different techniques to manufacture it. But with AliExpress it is kind of a waiting game and wait for discounts/sales events. The lowest I have seen some of them go are: Xinzuo Zhen Series Santoku Knife Review: Chinese VG10 $55/60 Xinzuo Lan Series Santoku Knife Review: Chinese VG10 + 14Cr14MoVNb $40 - $70 Xinzuo Zhen Series Tall Nakiri Knife Review: Chinese VG10 - $65 Xinzuo Feng Series Nakiri Knife Review: Japanese SRS13 Steel - $190 Xinzuo Feng Series Chef Knife Review: Japanese SRS13 Steel - $200 Xinzuo Zhen Series Nakiri Knife Review: Chinese VG10 - Acid Bath - $125 Xinzuo Zhen Series Chef Knife Review: Japanese ZDP189 - $230 As you can see the Japanese steel versions are pricier, the ZDP189 version for example has steel from Japan that is heat treated in Japan, and bonding of the Cladding is also done in Japan by 2 Japanese companies. However, the finish, shaping, and design are carried out by Xinzuo. The best bet would be to wait for the 11.11 sales day/week. (They did a sales event recently when Amazon was having their Amazon Prime deals and AliExpress had their own sales event going)

[@guyharrison909]

Yeah that zdp189 chef knife is $625 on Ali in Australia.

[@chefpanko]

@@guyharrison909 yeah with aliexpress you should never pay full price, normally discounts range around 40%, and on special events, it can go up to 50% discount or more. Always wait for discounts on AliExpress, it is unfortunate as I have spoken to the sellers there why there are so many discounts and so many resellers or franchise stores. And to my surprise, most franchise stores are operated by the same brand. And that has all to do with how aliExpress favors certain stores with their policy and algorithm for brands to get exposed on the front page. So they are forced to constantly update the prices and to add extreme discounts for the illusion and to be visible on the AliExpress front page. Some of the bigger growing brands are slowly phasing out of AliExpress, by offering things directly on their own website. The sellers told me that there is no way around it currently and AliExpress asked them to pay a hefty fee for certain perks on the website. And each country operates differently, in Europe, we get the sales tax added on top of the price depending on the country so I'm from the Netherlands, and for each product, it will be automatically 21% extra due to the added sales tax. The above prices that I have seen them at their lowest price points are in US Dollars. There probably will be an ''End of Summer Sale'' or ''Back to School'' sale event or whatever AliExpress wants to call it (with select few stores participating in it). Other than that AliExpress is expanding its warehouses for faster shipping worldwide and participating stores/brands need to pay AliExpress to get their product stored at those warehouses. (Amazon also operates similarly where store owners can pay Amazon to get their product in an Amazon warehouse).

[@jiahaotan696]

How else do you think Jeff Bezos and Jack Ma get their billions?

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

Would be fun to test on my channel

[@theredbar-cross8515]

I am in disbelief! SRS13 and ZDP-189 on Chinese knives?! Holy crap! I would prefer the SRS13 models. They have tsuchime (which, in my experience, do help with food release) and western handles. SRS13 is also far easier to sharpen than ZDP-189 with its 20% Cr content. ZDP-189 is also capable of rusting (due to its insane 3% carbon content). Question 1: According to your website link, the SRS13 Chef Knife is specified at 235 grams, that's quite heavy. But you said it was rather light. Could you weigh it in your upcoming review? Question 2: How is handle finished in the Feng series? Are the fully sealed from moisture, or it like Shibata handles where you need to apply mineral oil occasionally? Last note: In your upcoming reviews, could you please examine the cutting edge under a magnifying glass for micro-chipping? This micro-chipping issue is often reported on Chinese knifes using high-hardness steel.

[@chefpanko]

Q1: If I'm correct my version was around 230 grams on my version, as the video is a raw reaction I did not weigh the knife or knew the specs. But it is indeed lighter than expected especially if you look at the handle design. The Nakiri version was around 240 grams despite me, saying that it felt ''definitely'' heavier in the video the difference is just around 10 grams. So the shape can have something to do with it how it felt overall. I will go deeper into details in the full review including the weight aspect of the knife. Q2: The seal is fine while not very porous it is still wood and applying mineral oil on wood is something I do recommend when you feel that the handle is dry. I don't have any magnifying lenses as the macro lenses are very expensive. I have thought about ordering a USB microscope on AliExpress. The reviews are basically almost all finished, it took a very long time for me to review them before I made my final judgment. (I will keep this in mind when I review a new knife outside the Xinzuo and Hezhen collection, the Hezhen first impression is scheduled for next week after that comes the full review of each knife on a weekly schedule). I wasn't sure if I should upload this unfiltered first impression since my English speaking is not that good. And doing a voice-over is something I can redo with my pronunciation and creating sentences vs live commentary.

[@jiahaotan696]

Have you tried using ZDP-189 knives previously? That 20% chromium and 3% carbon get together and form chromium carbides. Carbon content doesn't cause more or less rust. Steel forms oxides that we know of as rust. The remaining chromium that doesn't form carbides prevents rust. That's what chromium is typically for in stainless steel alloys. The high chromium carbide content will certainly make ZDP-189 very hard to sharpen, especially if they didn't already grind the knife down properly. No, I have not used or owned a ZDP-189 knife, but I do think you might have some misconceptions about the steel.

[@chefpanko]

@jiahaotan696 steel is indeed extremely complex! The advancement on it that is being made is quite big and many metallurgists are still working on them despite all the information out there there is still a lot to learn. As I also did a Q&A with the Co-Founder of Xinzuo, it is extremely hard to be a steel manufacturer ad also why Xinzuo partners with steel manufacturers to carry out certain tasks rather than bringing the steel manufacturing processes in-house. While some things have been redacted in the final Q&A, it is interesting how Xinzuo is doing their R&D besides working with steel manufacturers outside their own R&D. One of the things they have is a joint collaboration laboratory with Litou Steel and a University in China with metallurgists working with Xinzuo. So things like how they forge a knife the traditional way vs the modern way already have been implemented by many steel manufacturers for a long time now. Like the old ways, they hammer the steel into shape on each other to create smaller carbides. VS steel manufacturer way rolling,/twisting the entire sheet over and over in a faster and more controlled way to create smaller steel carbides. Same for the Damascus billets while it is very hard to replicate the same Damascus pattern over and over again if you do it by hand. Steel manufacturers can create constant Damascus billets for knife manufacturers. So combining modern and traditional techniques creates different steel structures. Making known steel more durable, more ductile, and more rust resistant despite having the exact same content on paper. But on a microscopic level, the one with longer edge retention is ductile and stronger despite sharing the same rock well and content on a microscopic level of finer steel carbides. Xinzuo is also working on something new that they will reveal at the end of 2023 or the beginning of 2024 with a well-known steel manufacturer but unfortunately, that part I had to remove from the article as it is about a unreleased product/series. But I can say it will be something I have not seen any *larger-scale manufacturer* offering (Kai, Zwilling, Wusthof, Tojiro, etc). *The high chromium carbide content will certainly make ZDP-189 very hard to sharpen, especially if they didn't already grind the knife down properly.* Xinzuo also told me that they paid special attention to the grind because of it, but when they told me that *I was like I have to see it first before believing* but as you can see from my first impression, I'm impressed!

[@theredbar-cross8515]

@@jiahaotan696 The reason why ZDP189 has 20% Cr is because it needs at least that much to cover the carbon content. BUT, what prevents rusting is not chromium carbide, but free Cr that can bond to oxygen in the air to form the corrosion resistant layer. In order to achieve this effect, most high carbon stainless steel have 1% carbon and 14% Cr. With 3% carbon, you'd need 42% Cr, not 20%. This is why ZDP-189 is not considered a true stainless steel.

[@theredbar-cross8515]

@@chefpanko Thank you as always for your detailed answers. I think anything over 200 grams is heavy for a Japanese style knife in the 200 mm range. But it is still lighter than a German knife I suppose. You don't need to record the microscope footage of the edge (though that would be super cool!) Just assuring your viewers that you've looked at the edge closely and can see no chips would be enough I think. I look forward to your in depth reviews on these, especially the SRS13 knives!

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

I find it highly suspicious that the packages of these knives show a person holding his thumb to the edge of the knife. Either the knives are dull or the company is catering them to clumsy customers.

[@chefpanko]

hahaha, I think it is like a sharpness test with his thumb I also look for a burr with my finger/thumb to see if a burr has been formed. But those are photoshoots that they did which in some cases I also don't agree with like the the food/knife-cutting shots. But that has mainly to do with the photographer and his guidance most of the time and the model that is literally a model following instructions.

[@letishaflanary7860]

Promo`SM 😌