Discovery Wings - Clash of Wings #2/13 The Plunge Into Reality

[@secondthought2320]

Great series!

[@princetonjoshua3028]

I guess Im quite off topic but does anyone know of a good website to watch new tv shows online?

[@timboinozify]

A fact for folks to think about is that the Jagdwaffe was stronger (crews and planes) befeore the campaigns in holland Belgium and France than it would ever be again. Read 'Alarmstart' by Patrick Eriksson.

[@thetreblerebel]

Churchill was a helluva leader, I admire the old bastard! Helluva leader

[@zdzichus.3264]

eee... not exactly... pls read his biography... he was, perhaps, a kind of fighter by trade... a leader? he used to terrorize his subs in his offices during the whole war - leader does not need to terrorize, because people follow him naturally... Yes - he was a very good propaganda leader, but in the end he was easily fucked up by handicapped Roosevelt and that communist - Stalin... A LEADER?

[@markrowland1366]

Due to incompetence an order went out to spike the guns of the BEF so the German aircraft had a fun time. As with escorted bombers later, the troops on the beaches didn't see a first world war dogfight. The enemy were engaged where they were found. A standing defence flying over Dunquirk would have the German planes fly in when the defenders were away being fuled and pilots resting. The Germans tried that later. It was a disaster for them.

[@granskare]

Blenheim's were used by Finland for recon. Finns also had Dornier's

[@mikecimerian6913]

Finland didn't have Sweden's means to enforce their neutrality. Sitting between two major powers about to clash and no winning combination. Finland became a German ally out of necessity, not ideology. This is why I do not consider Finland as a German ally equal to fascism loving countries. Finns did great and fought only for the land lost to the Soviets. Only ally to come out of the war with their hands clean regarding crimes against humanity.

[@johnallen2771]

People wonder why we had a contingency plan for the invasion of Britain. The British were at one point down to a bare minimum of fighters, both land and sea. That's why we had a plan in case the British were overrun by the Germans. Thankfully that never happened and we were able to support the British as best we could. Although we started slowly we were able to eventually become the world's best hope in our production of planes, munitions and ships. Thank God for all the men and women who fought to keep the world free. People who yearn for freedom still exist in the world, and we must never forget our duty to them, too. Once you get a taste of freedom you don't want to live any other way.

[@Crashed131963]

After World War II, the Stalin took over the governments in Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania . Nazi Germany doing it or Communist Russia what's the difference really? Did people really think back then Germany a country of only 70,million was going to take over the world including North America?

[@davidvance6367]

John Allen, German High Command made so many mistakes.

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@Crashed131963 People (including Adolf) realistically thought that Germany would enlarge into occupied areas and beyond and that this "greater" Germany would eventually do what it wanted, just like America and the USSR did.

[@davemojarra4734]

RIP, Colonel Walter Boyne.

[@jacobmccandles1767]

He's a good and well spoken narrator, but due to his relatively deadpan delivery, I have used this programme to fall asleep for years! He will be missed.

[@jamesm.taylor6928]

Out of all the parachute forces I think the Germans had the worst actual chute gear. That single point attachment at their upper back area left them just dangling there swinging around with very little of any control at all. The odd angle, and wild motions meant they could never tell exactly how they were going to land. Now I've never seen or heard anything official on this, although I would like to, the combo of the above and landing with a heavy full combat load, their injury rates absolutely had to be much higher than the allied parachute forces. The allies had chutes attached at both shoulders that allowed them a stable vertical attitude. Although it didn't provide for much control manipulating the risers on each side did allow for some directional and speed control and some is far better than none. Landings were more controlled yet even then there were always injuries like sprained and broken ankles and feet, broken legs and even the occasional broken arm or two. The allies also had the added safety of reserve chutes that were used in all but the lowest drops where there wouldn't have been time to deploy them had anything gone wrong anyway. These reserve chutes saved many lives. The Germans were not equipped with reserve chutes, just the primary backpack style of theirs. All in all I would have rather jumped with the British kit more than any others. It was much like the American except the harness had a quick release the American harness didn't have. This oversight ended up costing many American lives in Normandy where they drowned in fields intentionally flooded by Rommel specifically for that reason, to make things as difficult and dangerous as possible for any allied parachute troops.

[@thetreblerebel]

I'd say this war was the most scrutinized . Every aspect was studied, gone over a illion times. Still today, the greatest war that was ever battled. Set off the technology war of the Cold War

[@blackbirdpie217]

You're right, but the reason is the profound impact it had on nearly every individual on the planet. Britain was alone in stopping Hitler on the western front, so this video concentrates on that little corner. But if your family didn't have at least one member involved you'd be unusual indeed. Even the women at home with kids were affected dramatically in their way of life, with many husbands gone, some for good. I think you'd enjoy this video that shows really how immense the war's impact on the world was. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqiugXmKYrecpbc

[@scottyfox6376]

If someone said I was ugly as a Whitley, I'd just curl up & cry..😆

[@mariuszfidzinski7474]

just 'brutal', typical for the 30's lines

[@frankmc5021]

It looked great at night. Lol

[@davidvance6367]

ScottyFox, I don't think the Whitley bomber was given enough time to show what it could do. It was a big ass plane with 4 engines. At times the Brits & Americans never wanted to fully load the Whitley with bombs & the 17'S.

[@raymondkisner9240]

Great video!

[@bookwizards]

I did not see it mentioned that when a British plane went down if the pilot survived he could be back in the air quickly, where as when a German pilot was shot down he went to POW camp and was not available for more missions thus there was a loss of experienced pilots. Also I read that captured German pilots went to a holding facility for a few weeks which was a large rural estate where they were allowed a lot of freedom in the house with few guards but lots of microphones.

[@AdamMGTF]

The point about pilots going back to their squadron vs becoming a pow may not have been mentioned because it was so obvious. Your second point. I've never read about that happening for downed air crew in general. It did happen for senior officers. Even after the war. When Germany surrendered. A large number of generals were kept in such circumstances and a lot of insider information was gained

[@clayz1]

It was mentioned, I didn’t get the timestamp though, sorry.

[@gavindouglas3196]

Never ever underestimate the British

[@garyrunnalls7714]

I love the Molders part.

[@ProperLogicalDebate]

At about 29:50 could the British wait till the ME-109's almost turned back to attack them which would force them to use fuel to fight that might mean ditching in the Channel? If they stopped fighting, going straight they might be easier to shot down.

[@rodparsons6719]

It was policy at this time to attack the German fighters early but not to pursue them back across the channel. The intention was to limit their effectiveness in our airspace and to minimise un-necessary aircrew losses on our part.

[@markrussell6881]

The British Army were not 'poorly trained', they were professional soldiers. There just were not many of them.

[@garyshepherd9367]

In 1939 the British army spent more on horses than tanks😐

[@jacobmccandles1767]

@@garyshepherd9367 soooo...poorly equiped?

[@Bjowolf2]

From way back when the Discovery channels still had programmes that were actually worth watching 😉 What happened?!?

[@cpcattin]

l

[@jacobmccandles1767]

I agree 100%....but it became evident that we are in the minority. Ratings and profits are way up with these (terrible!) new shows. I'm afraid we will not see a.return to educational programming.

[@GazzaLDN]

31:58 Are these Barrage Balloons being shot down?

[@babylynpenaranda2873]

Everything in modern war is logistics and anyone properly evaluating the air fight over Dunkerque should have come to the realization that the German Air Force did not have, in 1940, the ability to wage air war at a distance, over Britain and subdue it. The Germans in their arrogance picked a fight with an enemy they knew too little about. They didn't know about the importance of radar to keeping the British fighters on the ground until they launched directly against incoming flights of German planes. They stopped attacks against the Chain Home radar stations that could have put them out of action. They apparently did not figure in the significant pilot attrition when each lost dogfight over British soil results in the German pilot gone for the duration. They should have realized that their fighters could not spend enough time over Britain and their bombers couldn't carry enough bombs that far. They had created a short range air force to support the army and it was unsuitable to attack and defeat an enemy that was effectively out of range. Their strategy was flawed in that they wavered and moved from one strategy to another at Hitler's whim. When they properly attacked airfields and planes on the ground they did not know which airfields supported fighter command and wasted sorties attacking useless targets. Had they relentlessly taken out the radar towers and then attacked no targets except for fighter command planes and airfields and implemented day and night attacks on aircraft production they may have been able to win the air war. That still leaves an invasion attempt against the home fleet supported by the fleet air arm. I wouldn't bet on the Germans in that attempt. The German war attempt was doomed. They didn't have the resources within their own country for anything other than a short duration blitzkrieg war and they did not have the means to win once it became a war of attrition against the world. Same for Japan.

[@Ni999]

Germany surveyed the British coast with a derigible before the war broke out, looking for radar. They didn't find any because they were expecting it on a different frequency. They noted the Chain Home installations and wrote them off with a guess that they were related to traditional radio. It's not that they weren't bright enough to understand radar, they simply didn't recognize a system so foreign to their own. Stopping after the first short attacks on the Chain Home array was a similar judgment call. The attacks were to probe to see if the installations were radar or related. Not seeing any immediate effect, they stopped thinking that they had made a bad guess and didn't need to waste resources.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

Hitler never had an invasion of Britain as a priority. He hoped for a conditional surrender or even an alliance against Russia with the people he considered of Germanic derivation. Where his blindedness to logistics came to bite him was with Barbarossa.

[@Crashed131963]

True Did people really think back then Germany a country of only 70, million was going to take over the world including North America? The USA ALONE has twice Germany's population and 4 times their manufacturing capacity.

[@toddduffy1658]

Germany was the first to invent radar. They invented the RDF system. Brits used the RDF system, but to Germans it was archaic, Germans used Radar to measure distance to the moon accurately. It was the High Command that lost BoB and entire war. They used drop tanks over Spain, why not over Britain?? Etc

[@cpcattin]

A peaceful country naturally would not expect a war this desperate of this dimension in the 1930’s. Now we know the price of peace is eternal vigilance. Both the British and the Germans had excellent military’s.

[@autodidact2499]

At 24:25: According to the map, the reunification of Ireland was achieved in 1940! Northern Ireland is still a British colony.

[@zdzichus.3264]

3:50 - WTF "a single campaign"??? Was the 1939 pact with Soviet Russia, and next year raid through the cream of West Europe - "A SINGLE CAMPAIGN"???

[@ProperLogicalDebate]

At about 17:00 if the Spitfire engine stopped with negative G, would it stop with a fast roll? Someone on your tail, roll fast then pull up without them knowing which way you were going to spin off to? How fast could the plane & pilot spin?

[@sherlocksinha2435]

Spitfire had a moderate rate of roll slightly worse than a 109. And yes it will cut off in a role

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@sherlocksinha2435 No, it cut in a dive only. You see spits rolling fast in the gun camera film all the time.

[@9014jayvictor]

fast roll and back pressure on the stick would keep it from stalling the engine !

[@rodparsons6719]

@@9014jayvictor To roll and pull through is good. It keeps the diving enemy in sight and you can safely pull more G

[@SabraStiehl]

The German generals resisted Hitler's push to invade Belgium and France in November 1939, pleading time to retrofit equipment, setting the time of invasion for mid-January 1940, spoiled when a German major with the operational plans crash-landed in Belgium, which led to Leopold III of Belgium revealing the imminent invasion but not the plans themselves. Manstein's plan was copped by Hitler and claimed as his own during the phony, silly, or sitting war, depending on which country you were in.

[@davidvance6367]

Sabra S, The German Generals knew the English public couldn't be pinned down by the german army. Mainly Germans & Brits were rivals. Not enemies

[@craigkdillon]

Wow. I knew the Germans tanks had a tactical advantage with radios that enabled them to organize their tank attacks. HOWEVER, I did not know the German tanks could talk directly to Stukas to organized combined air/tank assaults. No wonder the British and French crumbled to fast.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

The Americans copied this tactic brutally against the Germans in the Calais Pocket in 1944. Harvest the wind..reap the whirlwind.

[@davidvance6367]

Craig Dillon, Germany is good fighting wars. Just aren't to good at winning them.

[@darrellborland119]

@@davidvance6367 David....that was pithy and succinct!

[@MBBurchette]

David Vance Tactics: A+ Operations: A+ Grand Strategy: F

[@craigkdillon]

@@MBBurchette That is quite succinct.

[@zdzichus.3264]

19:10 - Hitler was at that time deep into negotiations with King's Family, and other English Nobles... This is the only reason he stopped! (Rudolf Hess? Was he insane, or he was sent on a mission?)

[@stevemoyer2273]

Rupert Murdock's father was among those Brits who argued that Britain surrender to Hitler.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

The Battle of Britain was a fighter air war that turned on the reprisal bombing of Berlin. Amazing stuff.

[@AdamMGTF]

Sort of. This is the popular version of events. The reality is a lot more complex. Battle of Britain was more than a fighter battle and it didn't end in bombing Berlin... Bombing gernany was something enviable. The German change in tactics was equal parts exasperation and hitlers determination to drop a thousand kg of bombs on British cities for every kg dropped on German cities. You could argue that this campaign of bombing was largely seperate to the battle of Britain Remember the BoB was always supposed to be a precuser to sealion and by late summer. Nobody in German high command with any grounding in reality thought that that was a genuine possibility

[@phbrinsden]

Britain owed a lot to Lord Beaverbrook for his management of aircraft supply. RAF ended the BOB with more aircraft than it started with.

[@Szarko32c]

And what happened to hundreds of french MS406, P-36 and D520? They seemed to have no reasons to surrender.

[@williamflowers9435]

Szarko They were either sent to Germany as trainers(D.520),sent to Finland(MS406 & P36) or retained by the Vichy regime

[@darkestnile1056]

6:58 reminds me of the Stan Boardman joke

[@daveponder2754]

All the BOB combatants aircraft were only combat effective around 16, 000 ft due to single speed/stage superchargers. Had Britain used the properly equipped P-40 with their 0.50 caliber guns they would have decimated the bombers. The P-40 was competitive with the early BF 109 models as well, and could out turn the 109, easily dive with it, about the same speed, and better armored, as well as less likely to burn, than any of the allied or German fighters or bombers.

[@PenzancePete]

What a funny man you are. Incoming German bombers came floating over between 15,000 and 25,000 feet. Do you really think that an Allison engined P-40 could get up there or for that matter a P-51A/B/C if they had been built in 1940? P-38s could have got up there but as history proved they were simply too unreliable in the cold high air of northern Europe suffering carburetted icing, exploding turbochargers and frozen pilots.

[@toddduffy1658]

A 20 mm has zero problems killing P 40

[@GrenadierV]

Perhaps with a view on historical authenticity and honesty you could have mentioned and illustrated the Morane 406, the Curtiss Hawk H75 aka P36, the Potez 65,LeO 45 and Dewoitine which between September 1939 and July 1940 caused the loss of NINE HUNDRED (900) German aircraft and try to imagine a Battle of Britain with the Luftwaffe having an additional 900 machines. To this we must add the 285 German planes destroyed by the heroic Polish airmen. Let's do a little Justice to History , please Thanks

[@peterclark4685]

History is written by the victors. That lesson should have sunk in by now. To get a mention the loser had to provide a truly outstanding weapons platform. Eg: Italian tanks, fighters, bombers?

[@williamflowers9435]

The loses in the Polish campaign were addressed in the previous episode

[@toddduffy1658]

The numbers seem high, Germany could not lose 900 aircraft, they only made 40 a month till it was too late. But I guess it depends on books etc

[@jonremmers7723]

Errh, this is very much about who had the best timing in when they choose to spend on the military. Imagine what if the soviets decided they needed the worlds largest airforce in 1938, instead of executing just about anyone with an education starting in ´36. What if the germans changed to a wartime economy already in ´39 instead of ´41 or whatever it was. There was so much circumstance and luck involved in why the war ended the way it did.

[@jamesm.taylor6928]

Somebody said the Germans produced more than 70 thousand aircraft during the war years, 39--45. I just find that very difficult to believe considering their production was enemic for years after hostilities began. Even during the critical months after their significant losses in Poland and France, the Germans had 4000 planes before France and only 2500 to fight the British , and all during the battle of Britain German production was stuck at peacetime levels. England actually surpassed German aircraft production in the months before the battle of Britain began, and it stayed ahead of Germany from that point on. Also after D Day until the end of the war their production was severely cut due to.lack of raw materials as the allied rolled the areas that produced those and also destroyed their transportation networks--it became extremely difficult for the Germans to move anything around even critical materials in critical!y short supply like fuel and ammo. So the real years of production were from the latter half of 42 or 43 until mid 44. I just don't see them producing something in the neighborhood of 50 to 60 thousand aircraft in a year and a half or so. America was the only nation that could produce like that, if Germany could match American production then why was America feared so much, and more to the point why didn't they? That's why a number like 70 thousand plus doesn't sound plausible to me on the face of it. If anyone has any real numbers please share them with me

[@9014jayvictor]

about 36,000 Me109s were built from 1936 till 1945

[@9014jayvictor]

and about 11,000 fw190s were built from 1941 to 1945

[@jacobmccandles1767]

As in most modern wars, oil dictated the outcome of WWII.

[@petriharha6583]

So where was polish and other volunteers?

[@terrypbug]

Polish did fight

[@Crashed131963]

@@terrypbug The polish Squadrons were not put together until the Battle of Britain after the fall of France.

[@Schutzengel64]

Why has Hitler stopped at Dunkirk ?

[@peterforden5917]

surely with the fall of France you should not use the term Allies just British?

[@noctilucas]

Is the first time I hear that the Rotterdam bombardment was ordered not to happen. Sorry, I don't think so.

[@sexmoochogranday]

Why is it that the technology that has bettered mankind was first developed to destroy mankind? May the all mighty intervene before someone decides to push the big red button!

[@Crashed131963]

People make Dunkirk bigger than it was . 200,000 were British and 100,000 were French who escaped. The British had 5 million in service during ww2 the loss of 200,000 would not change the outcome of the war had dunkirk failed.

[@010Jordi]

It was only important for France because of those 100.000 soldiers there was a free French army under de Gaulle without that army France would have been seen as what they were a collaborator

[@Crashed131963]

@@010Jordi Of the 100,000 French that made it to England most returned to France a few weeks later and surrendered after France surrendered.

[@010Jordi]

Yes but some of them went to north Africa where they had to fight the vichy who then switched sides again when they lost from the British

[@marcamant7258]

the difference for the "loss" is between free and alive soldier and Pow or dead. Quite a difference, isn't it?

[@drstevenrey]

With all the advances that humanity has made in the last few million years, why has nobody had the idea to disband all armed forces. If only these Generals and Admirals had been able to watch porn on the Internet via 5G. Peace, not war.

[@tremainetreerat5176]

The simple fact is, that in spite of it's many shortcomings, the Luftwaffe was the finest, most experienced, and most powerful air force in the world during the first half of World War Two. To it's detriment and eventual destruction and defeat, it was also the most incompetently led air force of the entire conflict, with the habitual bumbling, boasting and utter lack of comprehension & leadership qualities of "Fat Hermann" Goëring, undermining and arbitrarily squandering it's strength every step of the way. Had the German air arm possessed a commander-in-chief of even average, unremarkable, mediocre competence, the victory of the Luftwaffe over the RAF in the BoB would have been absolutely assured and inevitable. Instead of cursing his name, the beleaguered British citizenry should have been saying prayers of thankfulness for H. Goëring, as his mismanagement of the finest air force in the world at the time prevented them suffering far greater miseries than the dinky "Blitz". The entirety of which, does not compare with one single night of the insane genocide unleashed on the German civilian population by Churchill & Harris, gleefully smoking their cigars and rubbing their enormous, swollen bellies, each thunderous release of flatulence provoking groans of gluttonous contentment, while tens of thousands burned alive nightly, melting in their homes and filling the streets with human grease in Hamburg, Cologne, Berlin, and even Dresden--a city with absolutely no military significance, known to the British to be overwhelmed with hundreds of thousands of refugees.

[@calebshuler1789]

Maybe pre 40. No heavy bombers. Not great medium bombers. My opinion is their machines were crap, their pilots were great. Until they were kia

[@calebshuler1789]

German?

[@krukpolny8505]

Siwek Kazimierz Pilot 315 Mustang III Oficer RAF. You Tube.

[@johnbeck6996]

Is the "background" musak REALLY necessary. It is annoying, and makes it hard to hear the narration. Please please PLEASE can you you-tuber people STOP with the USELESS NOISE??? I am not sure that I can withstand any more, sitting here in pain, at the end of #2. And why is #4 not available in the US? And where is #10?

[@sregan926]

This film,#2, is the same as #1

[@AlanReynoldsBucklandJunction]

VW

[@paulsikoris9696]

H

[@johnbrown2890]

we americans abhor the idea of a world goverment but if we dont build and support one ,some day some one will push that red button .maybe a world economy will prevent it,but there are always crazys who want to hurt and destroy what they dont controll or fear

[@charleswood4635]

john brown : Problem is that every "world government" proposal also proposes a that a bunch of elitist idiots or thieves like the Clintons head it up, and that there be no way for the people to get rid of them. they also want to end anything like true representation of the people in their governments. The old saw about power corrupting and absolute power------ you know the rest. ITS TRUE!!!!!!!

[@peterclark4685]

Follow this idea through to its logical conclusion. First (pinned) post and its primary comments (II - VII) for the gist of the idea. (10 minutes reading) facebook.com/Vision-Representation-A-Humanist-Government-262619170609120/

[@peterclark4685]

@Joe Michaels You probably used the wrong 'reply' button?

[@peterclark4685]

@Joe Michaels ps: We have and the answer is: Never get a bureaucracy to do what a vibrant democracy can handle, which is why I provided that link.

[@terrypbug]

We Americans don't want world government , the hell with most of the government far as I'm concerned and of course now we have the ragged dems trying to run the house and they can't get out of there own way